Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Berube Buy-In

Episode Date: October 14, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin a Thanksgiving edition with a look back on the Leafs' 4-2 win over the Penguins on Saturday. They get into the Leafs slowly buying into a Berube brand of hockey, Ekman-Larsson's usage, the power play now 0-9 on the season and Knies' impressive start. Then a chat about Marner after getting on the scoreboard Saturday and the Leafs' future with & without him. Finally, Sportsnet.ca's Luke Fox (36:58) shares his thoughts on the Buds three games in and discusses which players' stocks are going up & down with Berube at the helm.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's get her going on this monday thanksgiving day welcome into the real kipper and born show we are live on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, playing Turkey. Sake, Derek Brandeo, and Frank the Tank in on this Monday. Plenty to be thankful for. And let's not forget. I'm thankful for you, Kip. Thank you, my friend. South of to be thankful for. And let's not forget. Thankful for you, Kip. Thank you, my friend. South of the

border as well. Columbus Day. Oh, is it? To all our Real Kipper and Bourne listeners down there. Which means a handful of games on tap already. Three in the book. Done. With many 1 p.m. Eastern. We just moments

ago watching the end of a crazy Los Angeles Kings-Ottawa Senators hockey game. With the score 8-7 final. Is that not a score from the NFL yesterday? Yeah. Well attended, goalies. Good match today. Yeah. The Sens outscored the Giants in Sunday night football. Oh, no. I think maybe the Giants got a late one last night. No, it was 17-7, I think. So, yeah the Sens outscored the Giants in Sunday night football.

Oh, no, I think maybe the Giants got a late one last night. No, it was 17-7, I think. So, yeah, they outscored them. If you're impartial, though, it was a lot of fun. Oh, it was great. Good hockey. Entertainment. Well, they played.

That's what we want to get into. We'll get into more on the Sens and what's happened so far, including a Florida Panther win against the Boston Bruins again this afternoon in our national hour. In about 35 minutes, we'll welcome in Luke Fox, NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. And we'll get into a further detail of what he saw Saturday night when the Pittsburgh Penguins came in town. And then in the national hour, we'll welcome in Eric Francis, senior columnist analyst with Sportsnet.

Plenty to dive into, especially with those Edmonton Oilers. Oh, my God. Hey, remind me how far they went in the playoffs last year. Yeah. Oh, my God. We just played the start of last year's shows. Just same opinions. I will not say that they're not going to make the playoffs this year.

I won't go there this year. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. We'll save that. Connor's mad though. We'll just say Connor's mad. Sour. Maple Leafs down the Pittsburgh Penguins 4-2 on the first Hockey Night in Canada game of the season.

Didn't really start out like a ball of fire between Austin and Sid. But as the game progressed, I think we saw better out of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Your overall assumption before we get into some bigger details and specifics? My first thought is just to stay on the stats thing. That's the Leafs' ninth straight win in home openers really one home overs in nine straight years wow is that not wild that seem like a weird stat to

you does that mean anything uh just randomness i don't know there's i'd like them to trade one of those for a playoff win as it's been well documented JB, there's a lot to love about the Leafs the last 10 years during the regular season. It's true. Right? It's true. Did you know that they've won seven straight games since 21-22 with John Tavares out?

Not because he's out. I'm just saying it's a thing. So they're comfortable? So the combination of Tavares out and home opener. Had to win. Auto win. Auto win. Auto win. But no, greater takeaway, Kip, is still defense doesn't give up as much.

Still not giving up a ton at even strength. The big boys got on the board. Matthews didn't. But Marner shot one in. Beautiful goal. Made a great pass to Matthews for a breakaway. Matthew Nyes looked awesome. I thought, like, awesome, awesome.

Stolarz had another good night am i missing anything the headline from luke's piece on sports night after the game was maple leaf swiftly buying into berube's boring but winning style and yeah i gotta be honest i kind of agree yeah like they are a it's hard to really put into words how much different it feels through three games that it has in years past. And not to say that they weren't good defensively under Sheldon Keefe because they had their

moments where they were good defensively. But as a fan and as sort of a non-expert here, like, you know, you're like, oh, how much difference is it going to look with a different system? And it's like, holy crap, it does look a lot different. And Tanev helps and Oliver Ekman-Larsen helps it looks different it does yep yeah I've always said right from the get-go I I anticipated a an adjustment period I still think it's still there you know from what I've been able to witness in the first three games that there is kind of that fine line between what you're talking about leading towards success and then maybe a little bit of frustration on an occasion.

And when there have been frustration, their goaltending has been there. It's been rock solid. And again, I'm watching throughout the league, including the Edmonton Oilers, off to their winless start. I'm watching this afternoon. Kemper and what started out was Forsberg. To Sogard. To Sogard.

Yeah. And they ain't getting any goaltending at all. No. And I think it's made me appreciate at least what the Leafs have had coming out of the gate for three or four guys. Well, we'll exclude Matt Murray in this conversation that have shown that experience might come into play somewhere down the line.

But right now, we're good enough to get the job done. Yeah. I mean, I know people don't love this stat, and it's super early, but through three games, the Leafs are the best team in the NHL in expected goals against. So they've given up the fewest chances of any team in the league per game so far. So that's a really nice return. The biggest surprise to me, Tanev for me, not a surprise.

He just eats them up, turns the puck the other way. Oliver Ekman-Larsen led the team in minutes last game. 25 minutes, really shutting it down. He's first on the team in shot attempts. You know, he's shot the puck more than Matthews 20 times already, 21 times already. Maybe a couple times too many. I'm not sure if I'm thinking that this is just going to be the norm for this guy yeah um i think at times throughout his stint in arizona or vancouver if

you think that if this guy is going to be that guy that can can play and dominate at 20 20 22 minutes a night i'm not sure that that's the case he was the 50 on florida right it's the 50 well under 20 minutes i know some nights you're going to ask him to play a lot and then there's hopefully some nights when you don't have to play him a lot but i'm not totally comfortable that this guy's going to come in and average 20 21 minutes a night yeah it's uh it's interesting like 33 for a d-man i don't think is like you're getting the worst of their career or anything like that like he's young enough that he can log big minutes and have some effect um but it is curious i think the big thing that changed last game is he ended up on the first power play unit and he he was there in florida but not

commonly montour would run the power play most of the he was there in florida but not commonly montour would run the power play most of the time so that's probably where some of the ice time is going to come from um but yeah i i agree with you that you don't want him to be your guy he's actually leading the team in toi per game played right now at 2207 just ahead of jake mccabe yeah i don't think you want that to continue. No. I think, you know, putting they halfway through that game, was it when they put Ekman Larson on the power play? They flipped that a little bit, so maybe that's where it

led to it, but I think you still want to see Riley as your top minute guy throughout the year, but yeah, it's been a really nice... Riley's behind McCabe now. Yeah, it's been a really nice start for Oliver Ekman Larson, no question. Okay, let's go to Kippers Clipper on Coach Berube on OEL. Oh, I don't think we have an OEL Berube there.

Yeah, we do. It's on the second page there. Well, he's always been capable of doing that, going back to the Arizona days, coaching against him and seeing on the power play and things like that. He was always one of those guys that could really sift that puck through and get it through all the time and uh you know we like that he's he's looking to shoot a lot too which is good he had a bunch of shots and a bunch of attempts last game big sifter so we're going to get into a ton still here

moving forward including mitch marner but uh it kind of lends itself into the power play, and it's a sore spot right now. Didn't take long. Three games. Mark Savard. 0 for 9. 0 for 9. 0 for 9.

Yeah. You know, I mentioned to you before we went on air that I had read somewhere some opinions. I think it was Jonas Egel. But saying that Matthews probably doesn't shoot as much as other stars on the power player. Looked to shoot as much as he could. And you and I have had the conversation of the opposite. Where you felt that they're a little bit too honed in on him and trying to get him the puck.

Is there anything else that you're seeing that other than the fact that again i think watching this afternoon that crazy game in ottawa with the la kings and i think five of the first nine were on the power play and say what you will about two teams probably undeserving of points this afternoon. They should have given both teams zero. Zero points. But they snapped it around. Yeah. And it's just, you just don't see that confidence, that quick confidence of a Leaf power play right now

with all that firepower, with everything that's good about their world-class talent. It's pretty remarkable that they can't string four or five really sharp passes to open up a couple of seams and have somebody shoot the puck in the net. It is truly like everyone catches it, looks to see if they can shoot, so there's a dust. No? What about you? Can you shoot from over there?

No? No? Like there's no just like pass pass pass pass get the d kind of scrambling uh now is that oel now stepping in is that another example of of starting with a morgan riley and then moving off of morgan riley they have done everything they can do in the past five years to not have morgan riley run the power play but they always go back to him in the end you know egman larson probably is the most experienced d at it outside of john klingberg that they've had in the past few years so maybe he can do it legitimately so today at practice devarus was absent still with his illness i don't know what's gotten into him so maybe flu flu bad crab cakes flu whatever he's got he's not at practice didn't play on saturday night

obviously so these are their two units today without devarus present so obviously that changes Flew. Flew. Bad crab cakes. Flew. Whatever he's got. He's not at practice. Didn't play on Saturday night, obviously. So these are their two units today without Tavares present. So obviously that changes things probably when you go to it. But power play one at practice was Oliver Ekman-Larsen, Marner, Nylander, Matthews, and Matthew Nyes. And then power play two was Riley, Domi, McMahon, Robertson, and Pacioretty. So to me, there's two ways you can look at that where nize is a placeholder for tavaris or mcmahon on power play 2 is a placeholder for tavaris and i'm not sure which way they're going to go with it probably the first thing i said there power play one but

i do like what matthew nize brings to a power play with with that skill in terms of him just being a mountain of a man that can stand in front of the net so interesting that they're trying to switch it up early they feel it early it's nice that they're not just sticking with it and going back to the well. They feel it early. So at least that's positive. They know it sucks as opposed to just banging their head against the wall.

This is true. I think Matthew Nyes is probably a worthwhile takeaway for us from that last game. First steps of Berube seem to really like him and, you know, boosting him up a little bit, giving him some more power play time. And Nye's looking really confident. He makes the goal by himself.

Wow, just his ability to separate opponents from the puck. A unique one on this team. Oh, it's, again, I don't know what he's tipping the Toledo at these days, but he looks like he's about 240. He's a refrigerator out there. And tipping the Toledo at these days, but he looks like he's about 240. He has a refrigerator out there and... Tipping the Toledo? What the hell is that? You don't know what a Toledo is?

No, no, I do. Never heard that in my life. Did you ever see, like, a picture of the old Leaf goalie, Turk Broda, on a scale? No. And it's that big, giant scale. Oh, and it says, that's a Toledo brand? Is that what it is?

That's a Toledo, my friend. Turk Broda scale. But, yeah, so Matthew and I scored a bunch in college, right? Like, I mean, this guy who is familiar is shooting in. You got a picture of the Toledo? It doesn't help us out here. It's radio, guys. It's a hard medium, but I can show you.

There it is. The old Toledo. I hope your tabs are okay. Showing that to the world it's a work computer all clean baby yes Nyes has scored goals in his life in his career if he's worked

on his foot speed and size and he can get to these areas more there's no reason he can't score 25 times right and if he's a 25 goal scorer as big and physical as he is this guy's going to be on the ice a lot for the Leafs he's going to be scorer as big and physical as he is this guy's gonna be on the ice a lot for the leafs he's gonna be an 18 minute guy a guy they count on and maybe even killing penalties now all right let's get craig brooby's thoughts on matthew nize goodbye he's a powerful

guy i'll tell you um watching him here he's i thought he was excellent tonight. He's strong, strong on pucks, plays the game the right way. You know, the scoring of the goals will come. You know, he's young. It's hard to score in this league as a young guy. I'm not saying he's not going to score, you know, early here in his career, but the goals will come. But he's, you know, we're using him in all situations, killing penalties, power play, out there at the end of the game,

you know, six versus five. So he's been very structured, and the strength of him and his skating is high ceiling for me. High ceiling. That clip is as fawning as Craig bruby can talk about a player that's as much as you'll ever hear him praise anyone yeah uh nize played 2106 last game huge menace was plus four plus four and a four two and the only player ever plus two is the next best but when you when you kind of break down craig bruby and what he's preached from the moment he became the head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs,

it is right into Matthew's wheelhouse. So the north-south that is more predictable lends to an easier way to get in the way of people and to emphasize what your strengths are. Right. Like, I don't think there's another player on the lineup that can benefit more from north-south than Matthew Nyes, the way he plays. It's funny that, like, Bobby McMahon should be the light version of that, should be the guy who scores 15 to 20, and Ruby also loves and puts him out there all the time,

but he seems to fall down the line up pretty quick for Ruby. There's a sense of inconsistency with Bobby that he's still, that's what's missing right now is can you bring it every night? And Matthew Nye as well coming out of college, high bar, high expectation, in the running for a hobie baker award leading his club going to a national championship like all of that lends to being better prepared for bringing it every night and if you follow bobby mcmahon's path there's times when he slipped through the cracks and nobody really was pushing him.

He wasn't pushing himself. And that's the only thing missing right now with Bobby McMahon is the sense of urgency to bring it every night. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's good. It's good they're giving him an early season push. I know in the past, he's been a slow starter.

Remember the Leafs cut him the one year and they just... He cleared waivers. Was it last year? Yeah. Cut him because he didn't come to camp in a way that they liked. So maybe just a slow starter. Yeah.

We got tons of clips from Berube. We have an overview. We have buying into the system. We got lots of player stuff, the power play. What do you want to hear from the coach? All right, let's just go to the overview for Berube. I want to get his thoughts after three games. Okay.

Yeah, early on, I thought our legs weren't there and our hands weren't there. You know, just little puck plays. And they come hard, Pittsburgh. They're a very good forward-checking team, a lot of pressure. So we were under siege, but, you know, our structure didn't break on it. We, you know, held our ground. Goalie made some saves.

And, you know, I thought we hung in there with our ground goalie made some saves and um you know i thought with it we hung in there with our structure in their own zone i think he really likes his team you do i do i think i think after st louis i think he feels like you got the top end guys you can break the game open you got enough guys that defend it's way too early for me i think for him to like it, I think he's very cautious. And I'm not sure he's there yet to liking what he has so far. I think there's still a lot of question marks. I mean, there's certainly question marks. I just, you know, they lose the first game of the season to Montreal

in a game they probably should have won. And they've looked really good. I know their opponents haven't been great thus far. But, you know, the list of concerns is shorter than it typically has been, I think, at this time of year. Where the D is like, we know they have to do something on D. We know they have to do something in net. The only question in net is Joseph Wall,

who didn't get hurt but then was on IR. And now, do we have an update on where he's at? We do have an update on that. Berube, clip seven, if you want to play that. Better. Went out on the ice today for a while. So it's a good sign. You know, he's improving.

And, you know, we'll see tomorrow where he's at. If, you know, if he can come out with us for a bit and get some shots and stuff. I'm not sure yet. We're not. Yeah, we'll see tomorrow. That's pretty darn close to. Freddie Anderson?

No, yeah, Freddie. All or nothing. When they're like, I'm scared to look. Someone ask Joe. I'm scared to look out the window. You know, I just like, did we miss him getting hit by a bus? Improving. What happened? I'm scared to look. Someone ask Joe. I'm scared to look out the window. Is he opening the eyes? You know, I just like, did we miss him getting hit by a bus? Improving.

What happened? As far as I'm concerned, he pulled a groin. Okay. That's it, guys. In the first week of our show, we had Luke on who's going to join us again today so he can take his victory lap where he said he hurt himself in practice. We all saw it. We saw it. And then we were like, oh, it's fine.

They haven't said anything about it. Finished the practice and now we're into the you know tomorrow or sorry wednesday is the day he's eligible to come off ir and i don't think he's not on the ice yet so i'm imagining he won't be contributing in that game so there is a sense of frustration that you pick up from barubi speaking of it yeah right well i mean how could you not just like yes this that's exactly well how can you not yeah i mean you know i'm sure there was some tougher conversations with for the sports science department with sheldon keith but like i'm imagining how hard those conversations were are 10 times harder with craig berube you know sheldon also had a

relationship with the sports science guys that when i was with the Marlies, those guys worked with us and then came up. They were together for years. They were friends from Sault Ste. Marie. Like they had relationships. I think Perubi's going to be a lot more like, let's go. Can he play? Am I going to see him here? I think it's going to be harder.

Yeah. I don't know. All right. The big boys. What would you say you do here? We're watching some slow starts around the league with some of the top players in the world. Austin's not exactly off to a great start.

I think it was Jimmy Ralph that said this time last year he was off to a horrible start too when it came to producing. First period? Like, that period was just horrific. And then it seemed like Mitch Marner just kicked it right up. His goal, his 150-foot goal down the wall was, yeah, not too many guys, I think, can pull that one off. Yeah, no, it was a beauty for sure.

That's actually his signature. Yeah, he has that goal three or four times in his career. The first goal he ever scored was against Tuukka Rask, where he comes flying down off the right side, cuts into the middle, shoots a low blocker like that. That's like his signature shot. He loves low blocker, always goes low blocker. It's funny, too, because it's not like there's no fake.

He just shoots it. Wrists it. Yeah, he's going fast, so it helps. Yeah, it does. Let's listen to Craig Berube on Mitch Marner. Clip three, please. I've watched Mitch from afar for a long time and obviously coached against him.

He's a very good two-way player. All situational player. Great teammate that I've seen. Got a lot of energy. A lot of good. A lot of good. A lot of good. A lot of good. A lot of good.

Okay. I tread lightly asking this question, but I'm going to ask it. Why is nobody talking about Marner's contract last year when every conversation I had for the start of the season in training camp at the start of the season last year, everything was when is Willie going to sign a contract? And there hasn't been a peep about that from anyone anywhere. Because he hadn't been getting points.

No, I don't get a text about Marner's contract from my friends. We don't even talk about Marner's contract on the show when we yell about each other about Marner all the time. Why aren't we talking about this more? That don't make no sense. Yeah, it does make sense. Why? Why? Because nobody has a clue how they should feel about this.

That's why. Who has no clue? Everybody. Okay. Everybody. I mean, I have a feeling. Okay, well, tell me your feeling. Tell me your feeling.

I probably should sign him. Why? Because he's really good. Okay. You know, there's warts in this city. There's a bad relationship with the fans or whatever, but you just not better without him and i put myself included with not loving him clearly but you can't just let him go for nothing that's i'm back i'm not back i'm just saying if you've watched how this city has felt with him about him over the last few years not everybody

believes that and to your point he is a great player. He's a wonderful player, as Craig Brubin and everybody else knows. That's not the issue. The issue is if you sign him, can you win with them? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But do you have a better chance to win without him? I think that's organizations end up making that choice.

No, you're not. So you kind of have to be like. That's not, I don't buy that. I don't say no. So you think they have a better, like if they get something for nothing. I don't know. I don't know if they, if you make the right decisions and the smart decisions, the answer is yes.

If you just get rid of them and waste it or waste the cap, the answer is no. But this is what we do know up until now, that Matthews, Nylander, Marner, and Tavares don't work. Cannot win with them. That seems harsh. It's true, though. What are you saying with that point? Matthews, Neylander, Tavares, you can't win with them. How many chances have you had to advance or go to those?

Why was Mitch left out of that cluster there? I'm including him. Okay. I'm including him. I'm saying as a group, you've had ample chance to win with these guys together and they haven't right so why do you want to keep them all together and commit long term i don't know like i sometimes i struggle with this like maybe i just think about it differently but like you know you couldn't win with ovechkin right you're not a winner you couldn't win with them

and then you you do and then st louis makes the playoffs 25 years in a row and you can't win whatever and then you do and then you keep doing this until you don't have injuries to matthews neilander mcmahon and wool in playoffs next year maybe you get luckier go back and follow the history of the roster from, you know, Ovechkin's years and see how much the core changed. That's fine. You know, you couldn't win with – Steve Eisenman wasn't a winner until he was. Stephen Stamkos didn't win until he did. But you –

I just – He was so ignorant. But you got to tweak core players in, out, in, out, until the stars aligned. And now you can't do that anymore. You're stuck. Well, John Tavares' contract is up at the end of this year. Okay, so maybe next year it'll change. I'd rather have Mitch, Willie, and Matthews

and then spend Tavares' 11 than let Marner walk and keep Tavares. Yeah. Of course. Of course. If those are the two options, I think I know what door I'm opening here. Yes.

Okay, let's get Tavares out of here for a split second. Okay. Can you win with Matthews, Nylander, and Marner? Yes, you can win. Why? Why would you say that? Because they're fantastic players, which is the recipe to success.

The core of any winning hockey team. None of them hit. None of them have a mean streak. None of them have F-U. It's just a really roundabout topic for should they keep Mitch or not.

Should they sign Mitch or not. Should they sign Mitch or not? Should they sign Mitch and just hope that this nucleus can get it done finally? Yeah. I admit I'm jaded in the conversation by the sense that you're going to walk Mitch to free agency. I don't know what I'm going to do. All I'm saying is they've had ample opportunities to win together. They haven't shown it people wanted the the core four blown up you said it i said it last year somebody's got to go change it up if you can

trade now you're back to let's keep them all together if you could trade mitch for a commensurate return i would do it i would do it today but you can't because he has a no move and so you're hamstrung the option so you're better with him than without so he's gonna tie you to a chain and make you sign him if my options are i mean the time to trade him was when dubas and shanahan got into the public spat right and it was a no trade window right there and then living came in and it was he couldn't trade mitch marner within a week of being there. It was not possible. If the options are let him walk for nothing or sign him

and then deal with it, like, you just have to deal with it. Who's available in UFA that you're going to spend that 12 on that you like better? For me, I listen to you, but for you to say just sign him three games into the season, I'm not buying it. It's not based on sports. No. We got to see how they've evolved in this particular year because now Austin has a captaincy.

Mitch is at a crossroads. Willie needs to be better for people to say okay you know 11 and a half million you'd be more like pasternak i don't know what that is but maybe this is their time to finally shine through it but you're gonna have to see a lot of it for me to go to the position where, okay, Tavares aside, it's Matthews, Nylander, and Marner up front. And I'm just, for me, they're hugely skilled guys. But they're kind of all the same. Mitch ain't running anybody over.

Willie ain't running anybody over. Austin ain't running anybody over. And he could, but it's not really built that way yeah so where is the but this idea kip that you're gonna like wait and see here's what's gonna happen when you wait and see yeah he's either going to prove me right have success yeah and be worth 13 yeah or he's going to have no success in the playoffs or less success or whatever and flip the bird to the organization and walk out the door

for not showing him any respect and signing. If he walks out the door and then you turn around and sign Rantanen from Columbus, you got a problem with that? Rantanen? Who? From Colorado. From Colorado.

Nico Rantanen. Nico Rantanen. Yes. That's an option, but that's not going to be an option. Why? Because Colorado is going to sign Rantanen. They'reantanen. Yes. That's an option, but that's not going to be an option. Why? Because Colorado is going to sign Rantanen. They're going to sign.

Says who? Me. Because they're not dumb. They recognize a great hockey player when they see one. You think he could go to UFA? No chance. Yes, I do. Yes, I do.

No chance. Yeah, I do. So. That's how you got to start thinking about. Rantanen to the Leafs. First reported by a real kipper. I'm just saying that those are the type of scenarios where you don't need value in, value out. If you can get the job done through free agency, you're just filling holes in.

And maybe there's better chemistry if you moved Mitch to Colorado and got something else in return that changes up this stuck in the mud thing going on. Well it would be fascinating if there are other options out there. I do love

how much of the tables have turned here. We are sitting here trying to convince Kipper on keeping Marner here. And he's like, well, maybe he'll change. Marner is a fantastic player, but is he maximizing his potential here in Toronto? Yeah, he is, for sure. I'm sorry.

He's played to his potential every year. Where was that? He was the guy that lost the Boston Bruins series because he didn't pick up a check coming off the bench. You don't believe that. But it doesn't matter what I believe. I'm telling you what social media thinks. Nobody gets abused like this guy.

Sam Snob took a pretty good beating on that one too, I would say. Over the course, and I've been a Leaf fan since I was like six years old. I've never seen a guy get beat up like Mitch Marner. No? No. You? No, I think there's a high. Larry Murphy took a pretty bad beating.

Was that? Larry Murphy took a pretty bad beating. I think Willie. I sat beside Larry Murphy during those days. Not even close. Well, I think Willie prior to like maybe a year and a half ago it was kind of equal that they both ate it till willie had a couple good playoffs and signed a new contract um but there's definitely a lot of sensitivity i think from marner and that side and there's this

like combativeness with the media and the fan base that makes it hard i'd be that way too if i took that abuse that he's taken so then would he willingly wave his no trade and would they trade him during the season i would think that's already been explored and shut down yeah at least over the course of the summer. These conversations about like, just revisit it in January. It's like, boy, that's late. It's like, then it's going to be March, and then it's going to be, oh, we didn't get them moved. It's not the first time that's happened.

Where is the line? Do we have a bet 365 line on Marner walking? Because that's what's happening. You kind of lived through it for your New York Islander fans with Tavares. That went well for that player. We've just watched Stamkos go through it in Tampa Bay.

I don't know what's in Mitch Marner's future. The one thing you don't want to have happen. It will move on. You can't sign him now. You sign him now. You give him 12. 12 and a half. You can't sign him now. You sign him now. You give him 12. 12 and a half. When did Willie sign?

Half the town will be telling you you're crazy. Okay? Half the town doesn't know what they're talking about. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. There is still that perception out there. I wonder if Tavares would talk to him and be like, hey, I had nine great years on Long Island,

and it was legitimately home, awesome, I was big there. And the way it ended, it sabotaged those nine years, all in one fell swoop. You talk to a lot of my friends on Long Island, they call him a snake, right? He's the snake. Oh, pajama boy, he's a snake. He gets booed when he goes home.

You don't want that for Mitch, who's been a great Maple Leaf. But sign him to 12.5 times 8. They're going to call him a snake. They're going to say, you screwed us over like you screwed us over 7 years ago. Well, then sign for 11.5. Go for it. Times 5. But they still won't be happy. Yeah. I think they would.

If he signed for 11.5 for 5, people would be happy. For sure they would. If he signed for 11 and a half, for five people would be happy. For sure. No question. Anyway. No. He can't win. I'm telling you he can't win.

Then he should. There's still people that think that you can't win with him in the playoffs. But wasn't that the point of our conversation to start, where you think they can't win with them? No. I think he can't. I'm not convinced he can win with this particular group okay that there has to be maybe some give here that's fair that's what i'm telling you i'm not saying you can't win with mitch martyr mitch martyr you

know how i feel about mitch marty on my team any any day of the week but you but can he win with that core forward group you say mitch needs to be like phil kessel to go to a team with two better players and oh he'd be the best player on most teams yeah right he doesn't have to be phil kessel he's like the star yeah anyways that was fun we did it i just brought it up and we should because we're gonna get to luke all right maybe he can weigh in on this we're really supposed to get into that were we well you know what i knew that i wanted to do it and i thought that it had been a long time since we talked about it we got patrick andy lilligrim robertson who cares let's talk martyr no we'll talk luke fox after the break

how's that sounds great more real kipper and born on this Thanksgiving day, Monday, back after these words. Hey, it's a list for a fire and I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame 6 PM weekdays on sports,

that sports set five 90, the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to The Real Kipper and Boren Show. This is the Leaf Hour edition of our program. You guys are prime members for like, I don't know, what, 15 bucks, 20 bucks a month? Yeah, I'm an Amazon Prime member. Yes, I am.

We have young kids. We need random things for school every day. One of those things that just, I look at my credit card statement, I'm like, ah, crap, there's another 15. I'll never get back. Have we lost track of how many memberships we have? You know what the worst is? Where they go, you know, whatever. Maybe you're booted out.

You got to put your password back in. I'm like, I've got so many passwords. And then you got to change the passwords because you can't use the same one before. I've got like 10,000 passwords out there. I can only imagine your password situation. Do you have a password keeper or perhaps a hired person who remembers them sammy and then i just i just i just add another a

sammy one two three my password has been the same thing for everything my entire life a security check very dangerous oh yeah yeah oh for sure not me mine are very complex and long and winding you'd rather have someone rob you blind than change your password hey sammy yeah correct i don't got much to rob boys they want some debt they can come scoop some of this debt all right let's welcome in luke fox sportsnet.ca senior writer and uh boy you've had the uh you're all set with your prime tonight their first game of the year yeah you know what i'm actually not a member but i know someone i know someone who's a member so i can i can get around oh the old they're listening i'm off the old password hey Hey, Hey,

whatever you can do to save 20 bucks a month. I think you're giving bad info on the price. 1799, 1599. I don't know. Anyways, listen, as long as,

you know, the wife doesn't get it going every Every other day I got something from Amazon at my front door. Is it Christmas again? Alright, enough of that. How was your weekend? How was the atmosphere Saturday night for you to kick off this campaign at home?

I mean, the atmosphere was okay. I had come from opening night at the Bell Center and I gotta mean, the atmosphere was okay. I had come from opening night at the Bell Centre, and I got to say, the Leaf fans, they could be a little bit louder, a little bit more into it for the intros and stuff. It was a little bit flat for me, but I liked the way the team played. You know, they got down early. They didn't really have it.

That was their third straight home opener because they were in Jersey for their home opener too, and it's a lot of sitting around and waiting and mitch marner even kind of mentioned something to that effect like uh you kind of get thrown off because you get all ready and then you got to sit there um so they came out a little slow but i i just really like how they there was no panic in their game they just kind of kept to their structure even though they got down early and then we're pretty business-like about rallying back and and taking care of business and i've just been been blown away at how they bought into brew bay's defensive system uh like i think about that jersey game they could have went

cookie hunting after they got up three, nothing early, but they didn't, they just kind of stuck to the game plan and it's only three games and they haven't played a playoff team yet, but so far so good in terms of what the product looks like on the ice. So one of the things I do in my writing and we do on the show is kind of stock up, stock down,

trying to figure out with the new regime, who he's going know bruby's gonna like more who he's gonna like less we've seen timothy lilligren kind of on the outs maybe bobby mcmahon a little uh as well what are your thoughts on just guys up guys down uh over bruby short time here so far yeah i'll give you two that are that are way up for me just watching. And number one is Oliver Ekman-Larsen. I think everyone knew that this guy could get shots through and had playmaking ability. And, you know, he was a star when he was with the Coyotes.

Yeah. But, you know, Austin Matthews was talking a bit about it today, and I agree with him, is he has a lot more bite than I think a lot of people realize who don't watch a lot of uh OEL you know defensively he's got some edge to him there was one time where he he snowed um Montable in the opener uh driving in the crease and uh giving guys the stick and all of a sudden his stock is way up he's replaced morgan riley on the the top power play unit um that's because they're 0 for 9 but i was looking and in that game

saturday you got hall of famers on the pittsburgh side you got all that star power on the leafs forwards and ekman larson had 10 shot attempts more than anyone else in that whole game wow and berube likes guys to shoot it. He doesn't like, he likes quick decisions. He doesn't want guys getting cute. So his stock is way up with the coach. The other one for me is Matthew Nyes. So he played 21-06 Saturday.

That's a career high. He played more than Nylander. He got promoted to the top power play unit because John Tavares was ill. But that job was supposed to go to Pacioretty, and Nyes took that over. He's killing penalties for the first time in his life. And Brube is like, loves the guy's size. He loves his work ethic. He plays in straight lines, which fits the coach's system.

So he's all the way up. A note on Lilligran, it does look like he's going to draw into the lineup Wednesday against LA. So he'll have a chance here. We're talking about Luke Fox, Leafs and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. We had, Luke, a pretty in-depth discussion about Mitch Marner, of course, goal and assist Saturday night. Sammy wanted to go down the path of why is no one really talking

about Mitch's contract? And yes, he said he would not speak of it, but that doesn't mean that noise shouldn't follow it around. I said the opposite, that I don't expect anything. I don't expect noise for a while. I think there's a lot of question marks still on both sides. Where, from your side, I mean, you're in the rink every day. You talk to fellow media members.

Like, is there talk about Mitch behind the scenes on what may or may not happen short or long term here? Not a ton. And I think it's only because the topic is kind of been exhausted a little bit. Like we all know where things stand and, you know, he wants to make probably more than Nylander.

The team doesn't want to give that away just yet. I think it's fine for both sides to just take a breather and let him play. What, you know, what I would not do is wait until he's on a heater and sign him at the height of his powers. I think really the guy has made it crystal clear he wants to stay.

I think Trey Living, he may have been a little bit irked how the season ended once again in the first round, but I think he's come around and realized it's going to be hard to replace his talent. I think he's come around and realized, you know, it's going to be hard to replace his talent. I think he's warming up to the idea of resigning him. And there's mutual interest. It's just about a number.

Why not just let it play out? Why don't let's just let it play out throughout the playoffs. And I think it will be actually relatively quiet because there's not much new to bring to the conversation unless there is a report that they have talked or that are a hard number, you know, the, the Shusterkin or the Swayman type report where an actual number gets, gets floated out there. Then there's, that'll kick up discussion. But in the meantime, I think it's just, you know,

watch this guy play hockey and he had a, he had a great game on Saturday. And, you know, but we, but we've all seen it. We've all seen him be great in the regular season. Luke, where are we at in the battle of Nick Robertson versus Max Pacioretty? Well, I think they're both fine. They're both on the third line. They're fine. I really like how Robertson, you know,

he didn't get a point on the Pacioretty goal in Jersey, but that doesn't happen if he doesn't drive the net like a maniac and cause the chaos that allows that goal to happen. I think he's been really good. I think his effort's been off the charts. I think he's been more willing to go to the paint than he has before. Yeah, I mean, the goals aren't going in for him like they were in the preseason.

But, you know, I think that decision won't arise until Yarncroft's healthy. As far as the goal... LTI. Luke, as far as the goaltending is concerned, it's certainly been a bright spot for the hockey club despite Joseph Wall missing the start of it. But do you think it's changed their thought process

in terms of keeping Stolarz in the mix, where we actually see Joseph Wall come back and they almost split every other game or close to it based on the success Stolarz has had? Yeah, absolutely. You know, he's been rock solid. You know, both goalies have been, actually. It's funny.

They passed the player of the game belt after the game, and Hildeby got it after his win in his debut, and he passed it to Stolarz on Saturday after his performance against Pittsburgh. I mean, this guy is big. He's solid. He's calm. I think he's immediately given the skaters in front of him confidence that he's going to be there to make the easy saves,

but some of the hard ones too. The puck just hits him a lot of the time. So the fact that Joseph Wohl has this quote-unquote lower body tightness, still hasn't practiced with the team in about a week now, there's no need to rush him back. It stole our net for sure. And, yeah, all of a sudden, you know, I think back to last year when Joseph Wall got healthy, they were envisioning him as the number one but

Samsonov was playing well so they didn't rush Wall into a whole bunch of games. They kind of let him ease his way back from injury so I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar path this year. Alright Luke, appreciate your time on this Thanksgiving Monday. Did you have turkey

today or yesterday? Yesterday and my wife's out of town so i pulled it together whoa wow yeah single-handedly me and uh my son and he had a buddy over and uh yeah it's a lot of work local man discovers old truth in the running I'd rather just scribble about hockey. You just shot right up to Daddy of the Year award there, Luke. Good job, pal. Thanks, Luke. Appreciate it. Happy Thanksgiving, guys.

You too, buddy. That is Luke Fox, Sportsnet.ca. You guys have a nice Thanksgiving? Yeah, we had it at our house. Your kids are out? I have one. Two are down south. My parents.

Lovely. Yeah. It was great. Yeah, we had a great Thanksgiving. It's funny. You mentioned cooking the whole... So yesterday I played golf with my mom, my nephew Ben, and my wife. And my dad was left to do the Thanksgiving dinner.

Great. And my mom does a wonderful job. And my dad left to do the Thanksgiving dinner. Great. And, like, my mom does a wonderful job, and my dad left to his own devices. Absolutely knocked it out of the park. Really? Elite Thanksgiving dinner by old AMAC, so crushed it. While my mom and my nephew beat the wheels off Allie and I in match play. Is that right?

Oh, it was bad. It was a bloodbath. Marianne and Ben were red hot. We could not get a sniff. I try to help as much as I can. My wife. You do? Yeah.

What do you do? I watch the turkey. Stay the hell out of the way. I watch the turkey through the glass going, how much longer? It's looking pretty cooked, hon. Are you a dishes guy? Big dishes guy. You are, right?

Oh, yeah. Allie and I did the full dish. We did the full dishes. I'm a former aquatic technician myself, so I got a lot of skill when it comes to doing dishes. My wife handled it. I take the long way to the sink, and then somebody's there. I'm like, you need some help?

No, I'm fine. I'll try. No, it was great, though. Real quick before we go to break, do we want to hear uh the clip on patch ready start or i think lilligran to be a little bit more relevant since he's getting back in so we have clip number eight please there i think he's been practicing well um i talked to him a little bit ago and i think his practice is even better. More intensity. Doing things quicker.

So, you know, chance he can play on Wednesday. Listen, you've got to get him back in. Yeah. He's an asset. He's a $3 million asset. You cannot leave it on the sidelines and think that you're going to move him when he's not good enough to even play for you. No, and like Tree signed that contract. He him when he's not good enough to even play for you. No, and like,

Tree signed that contract. He must think he's a player. Like, let's get him involved here. Would be hilarious if he just came out and he's like Scott Stevens trying to run guys. Yeah, yeah.

Completely changed. I don't know if he has that in him, but we'll see. Okay. That was a fast hour. Awesome. When we return, we go national.

Eric Francis, senior columnist, analyst with Sportsnet, will join us. We'll get into what the heck is going on with those Edmonton Oilers. Where everybody but the three of us picked them to win the Stanley Cup this year. No, morning day. Oh, okay.

I picked the Leafs, but no one asked me. Okay, that and more when we return on this Monday Thanksgiving Day on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.