Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Blueline & Goalie Decisions

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a look ahead at the Leafs' final two tilts before the All-Star Break against the Jets. They get into the significance of the pair of games, the gamble of rolling out Samsonov, Joseph Woll making progress, Winnipeg's stingy defence and Giordano once again getting scratched. They are joined by Sportsnet's Luke Fox (28:47), who weighs in on the Ryan Reaves IR situation, what the Leafs could do with him, the team's defensive struggles and the long-term plan for Samsonov.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it's the real kipper and born show wherever you're watching wherever you're listening sports net 590 sports at 360 sports net plus from four to six thanks for joining us and remember if you can't catch us live there's always a chance that you can download us at your convenience wherever you get your podcasts and text us at 590 590 all your thoughts all your comments questions are welcome at any point nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee derrick brandeo general nick with you all for the next two hours hopefully that's a good thing for you. Yeah, ideally. You know, for our careers. If you're driving in the GTA today,

take special care. Get a little greasy out there. Lots of snow. It's supposed to be kind of getting warmer and then it rains. Dude, it's supposed to be five degrees next week. Like, all week. So is it going to melt this crap?

Yes. And Rosedale's going to open at some point. Oh, yeah. Fellas, we are, like, really not that far from golf season. You knowosedale's going to open at some point oh yeah fellas we are like really not that far from golf season you know it's hard to believe today but like it's it's already pretty much february we're going into the shortest month now is this a is this a if we added an extra day this year in february yeah there is an extra day is there it's a leap it's a leap one day we're away further but what i do um you know what i do think is the days are getting longer get up in the morning when by the time my

wife's going to work the sun's up like we're we're coming around here when december and november are 10 degrees the entire time winter's not so bad i can handle this nice nice all right here we go nice blue shirts by the way boys i've got uh yeah we all went blue i got uh an alumni jacket i'm kind of getting more excited about uh all-star weekend oh you're excited we've got uh thursday we got a big event at the hall of fame honoring the 67 toronto maple leaf team which that's cool it is really cool yeah so i'm getting excited and uh sammy we've been doing a giveaway which we'll do later on in the show right for an opportunity to take part in so many uh festivities it seems like some teams are gonna watch the all-star break as soon as possible.

Some don't. Where do we see the Toronto Maple Leafs with two more games coming in? Today they are on the ice at the Ford Performance Center since returning from their 2-2 Western road trip. I suppose the big watch from here to the All-Star break is what what kind of samsonov we'll get wednesday night yeah samsonov going back to back for uh first time in a while and which i think is good i you know i think for you're talking with teams you know excited about the break some teams want their hot streak to kind of keep going the leafs have played a ton of hockey this month haven't they like this has been four week four games per week and travel and all that they've played a lot so i gotta believe the leafs are looking to get out of this home and home with

the jets get a split yeah take a breather and listen there's there's a hundred reasons why you don't put too much stock in a win against seattle but for me, just to your point, they had good energy. Yeah. For Jake McCabe could have easily taken his foot a little bit off the pedal when he went up against Tanev, but he didn't. And I think finding ways to grind that out, albeit on a very struggling hockey club, on a losing streak with

no stars in their lineup or at least the best stars that they could present yeah uh it was okay for me that was their 11th game in 20 days which is you know it's a lot of hockey ton of hockey making up for their two weeks off in the middle of the season yeah thanks november yeah it's all it's been feast or famine here but yeah you, to your point, Kip, they handle their business, and that's great. You come out of a tough road trip with a 2-2 split, a couple of tough games here, and then you kind of regroup and see what you got as you head towards the trade deadline.

So big games. A couple of wins here would be massive. Unlikely. Yeah. I do think that this Samsonov thing, while everyone's feeling pretty good about it and the last two games that he's played weren't complete disasters, we got the news today that he's starting on Wednesday night against the Jets.

And, you know, like that, I don't think this fan base is completely over what's happened with Samsonov. No. And I would say that the, sorry, the Jets, I was going to say the New York Jets. Sorry, I was thinking of Aaron Rodgers there. Yeah, they haven't been rolling. The Winnipeg Jets are not the Seattle Kraken. No.

And they are not the Detroit Red Wings. There is still a chance that this goes pretty squirrely on Wednesday. And it just, you're right back to square one with Samsonov so a big gamble with him. Let's pick up that conversation after we hear from Sheldon Keefe on our first Kippers Clipper on why

Sammy is starting tomorrow. Yeah I think just I think what I commented on there tonight was his focus and his preparation, all those kind of things, confidence. That's what I've really seen an uptick on, in particular since that Detroit game.

I think his practices have been excellent since then. I think he was really hungry for the net last week, and partly because of Jonesy's play and partly by design, we kept him hungry by not playing him all week and wanted to continue to stack good days, knowing that we were definitely going to need him on the weekend. And he stayed hungry, kept working. So quite honestly, I was not surprised that he had the type

of game he did the other night because he's very much looked like himself or the Sammy that we came to know last season over the last week in practice. Okay, this is go big or go home week for Samsonov.

Yeah? Like, let's say he has a bad week. Is there any go home potential? Yeah, well, like I just said before we went through to that clip, if he gets lit up and pulled in Wednesday, which, you know, I think he's looked a lot better in the last two games, and I give him full credit for going down and doing whatever the hell he did on the ice by himself.

I don't know what it was. Yeah, he found a wizard. The Jets are legitimately the best team in the league for a long stretch this year. Yeah. It's a different animal. And if it goes bad, you're right at square one again, boys. But, you know. I agree with that.

But you've got to play them. No, no. You have to play them, of course. I agree. with that but you got to play him no no you have to play him of course there's no better opportunity than tomorrow night to play him based on he's feeling good the movements were good the look was good everything was good so if you can't put him in now you can't put him in now, you can never put him in. But to Sammy's point, if he doesn't finish the game, then you're in with Jones on Saturday night, and then you go into your all-star break,

and you're giving your management team and your coaches time to go, okay, who are two goalies to start after the all-star break? Yeah, so Wohl did skate. I don't, you know, hear he's... I saw a video from David Alter of him doing hockey goalie things. Goalie things. Goalie things, on the ice and pads, sliding around. So the Leafs' first game after the All-Star break is February 5th.

Tomorrow is the 24th of January. What do you guys want to talk about next week? I don't know the All-Star game. We'll take it apart by period. But, you know, after... That could give him nine days, Joe Wohl. Could he conceivably be ready? Jones comes back. Maybe he starts the first one and

Wohl works his way in? Yes. Yeah, I think so because that will have given him the two months, I think. Yeah. Since his injury. Big start then. Yeah.

I just, the biggest worry coming out of it is how he's going to feel with a high ankle sprain and being a goalie. Because it's much different than a defenseman. and Lilligren had the high ankle sprain is it a coincidence that he's not been able to hit levels that we've seen earlier this year or or a better Lilligren where is his 13-14 minutes the other night tied into how good that ankle feels is he playing at 60 70 and if he is and it's just good enough to get by then that may explain a lot on why they're not thrilled with his play right now yeah so where is where's joseph wall after the All-Star break? Can he play at 60% or 70% on a high ankle sprain? It is unlikely that it's 90% or 100% back.

Because these ankles don't just get 100% better. It's a gradual improvement. It lingers. I've had a high ankle sprain. That was like four years ago. I still feel it. It's one of those ones that just slowly refills back to 100 and using it kind of. So there's no chance that Lilligren's high ankle sprain will feel any better than it does today. It can only get sore.

Yeah, Lilligren's. All-star break here could help. No, no, it won't. It's not enough time, Justin. You know what's going to help him? The day the season's over and he has six or eight weeks to properly heal this thing. That's what's going to make it feel better.

There's no time right now to get it better, better. Do you think that's crazy to say? No, no. He was really good for that i i think you just he has to just manage it yeah you just manage a high ankle sprain joseph wall will have to come back and handle and manage a high ankle sprain to to whatever degree he's comfortable enough to put it in a boot again and and move around but it is. But it won't be anywhere near and before when the injury happened. Concerning.

Concerning. Yeah. So the team they're playing coming up here. Sorry, did you want more on the ankle? No. The team they're playing coming up here had given up three goals or fewer in 35 straight games prior to giving up four last night which only happened because of an empty netter in terms of goals allowed this season um the team with the second fewest is the los angeles kings 116 the winnipeg jets have allowed

uh 12 fewer only 104 goals goals this season in 45 games. So they were at 34 last night. It ended at 34, and the NHL record is 35. Oh, they were one off the record in an empty netter room? Yeah, by the 2015 Minnesota Wild. So there you go. All right. So it's going to be a tough night.

Yeah. Just not to derail our Leaf edition here, but I just got note that the Flyers had a statement out on Carter Hart, goaltender for the Philadelphia Flyers, who has requested and been granted an indefinite leave of absence, citing personal reasons. The club will not make any further comment at this time. So this is the second guy this week that's been granted permission to leave.

Dylan Dubé of Calgary. So we'll probably, we'll pick this up in our national hour as well and see, see what else we can find out about this situation. I'm just going to go ahead and draw the thread for people who don't know. They were both on hockey Canada or Canadian hockey team in 2018. Yeah. Just throwing that out. Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and draw the thread for people who don't know. They were both on the Canadian hockey team in 2018. Just throwing that out.

Alright, so we're good with Samsonov. Samsonov, well, good with me may not be the word. You and I are discussing him. If that's what you're going to talk about. The other Jets note I had for you, on top of the fact that they almost never get scored on

is Mark Scheifele and Gabe Velarde were out last night and are still game time decisions for tomorrow night. So Leafs fans, you can go ahead and do whatever sort of voodoo doll thing you do. Pretty sure Mark Scheifele was the one that carried the stupid hat that they gave in and said there's nothing better than beating the Leafs. I think that was Mark Shifley.

So if he's pretty close, he'll probably push it over the finish line to play against his favorite team. My favorite thing is that the best guy to play against Mark Shifley would be Sam McKee who was really bothered by him saying that and I'm not even making fun of you. I love it. I love it because he loves

the Leafs so much. That's why he wants to play against them. That's all he thinks about is the Leafs. Can't win. That's him. That's 100% him. That's all he thinks about. He's got the PJs, the bed sheets, the works.

Where's he from? He's an Ontario guy, isn't he? Let's see what Sheldon Keefe thinks about the Jets, whether or not it includes Shifley or not. They've defended real hard. They're a really good example of what happens when you have a team that defends real hard with elite goaltending and high-end skill at the same time. So I think they put their defense and goaltending first,

and then they have the skill to be able to pull away for them to win games. So they've got a great mindset as a group that they found here this season. I think in lots of ways when we're playing at our best, I think our identity is pretty similar in that sense. I don't know

what that was. I just put it in there because you compared the Leafs to the Jets. Which is I don't think that's exactly fair. Probably not. Different styles, different structures. Do the Jets deserve equal billing, equal attention for what they've done

than the Vancouver Canucks? Yeah, they do. Right? I mean, I would say the difference is last year the Jets made or missed playoffs by a point made plus by a point sorry and canucks were significantly you know a disappointment last year so no they were a train wreck okay they were full-on train so maybe the canucks deserve more credit yeah because the distance they covered i think i think you're right but the difference for

me kip is that when i looked at vanc, they had the elite guys that made me think, that team could get to elite. I never looked at the Jets and thought, that team could get... I thought, that could be a good team. That could be a hard out in playoffs, but they have got to elite somehow. Well, that's it. Mark Scheifele from Kitchener, Ontario.

This is a note. That's also a good time to let everybody know at the top of the hour uh bruce boudreaux will join us gabby now on the nhl network we're gonna get into all of this including okay he's got to come clean on who recommended hughes to play center you're not gonna ask him that oh yeah 100 are you yeah i mean you kind it. Who's that? I wouldn't say it. This is a not very intelligent person. Yeah, I mean, it's funny.

I don't know. It's a whole. You could probably do it and be better than most. Sure. He's really good. So maybe it's not that bad of an idea. So let it be a lesson to everyone who's like, Riley should play wing. Like, you know, stuff it.

Okay. Gio, out of the lineup again tomorrow night? Yeah. Is this a sign that suggests that he is now the seventh defenseman on the Toronto Maple Leafs? Behind Connor Timmons? Two in a row? Or is this still a good thing to manage him and

by chance you you're in the playoffs comfortably in the playoffs you just focus on the back half of the season to make sure he's as fresh as possible or is this more indicative of he's just not quick enough fast enough to handle well the jets well they played vancouver who i think you could say that might be the fastest team in the nhl i mean mckeough can fly you go on that lineup it's just like you know obviously hughes is an unbelievable skater sam lafferty can fly all those former leafs but that's a big fast team ngo was exposed jets might be kind of a similar sort of construction but let me ask you this did you think connor timmons was really good the other night because this might be as much he was

consistent on what you get out of him and that is offense well he didn't really contribute there but that's what he's pushing for that's what he's's trying to do. But there's times in his own zone where it's kind of like Evan Bouchard where you're just not sure what he's thinking or what he's doing. And there's the cross-check on Tanev that... You think that was bad? Not suspendable bad, but... He did get fined fine it could have been it's it's one of those is did you leave yourself in a vulnerable position to to put yourself in that predicament like just

you being in that situation forces you to sometimes do things like take a penalty which you know ultimately it was. Anytime you're chasing someone towards the end boards and they're in front of you, you got to be real careful about putting your stick on them anywhere. And Tanev's been through a lot already being hurt. And his first reaction is, I could have broken my leg. I could have broken my neck there.

Funny, Benoit swallowed him up after that. Like Tanev was whatever, and he was just like, big brother, like a blanket over a fire. He was just like, no, you're going to just calm down, son. But would you be comfortable putting Timmons in in game one in the Stanley Cup playoffs against Florida? No. No.

I'm not sure. I was just going to say that I think I'm more comfortable with Geo against the Jets than I am with Connor Timmons. I'm more comfortable with Lagasin than Timmons. No joke. For sure. But it's just, I mean, we can. How is he not in more often?

He was great. It's hard to get in because, you know, it's not like the Leafs decor is unbelievable, but they do have eight NHL defensemen, which is not common. Yeah, it's true. You know? I want to hear, I want to hear Keefe on,

on Geo. Clip three. Geo gives us everything that he has. I think he's, you know, he's battling. He's,

he's, to me, he's done a good job. And, and, you know, the other night, it's a back-to-back,

it's a busy schedule. It's all of that. But also, also, we've really been feeling like we could utilize an extra right shot on our defense and help us with our puck movement, coming out of the breakouts, coming out of the neutral zone and our regroups

and the offensive blue line, all those kind of things. So that's part of the decision-making process too, but we know exactly what we're going to get from Gio, which is absolute competitiveness and leadership and all those sorts of things. So, you know, he'll put the work in to make sure he's ready. I think a really tough thing. Go ahead. All I heard out of that is he gives us everything that he has,

and right now it's just not enough. To me, that's like a backhanded compliment. Anytime you say, yeah, guy gives us everything he's got, you're kind of going, he doesn't got a lot. If someone has a ton to give you, you talk about that and not them just giving you 100%. I think the tough part with a guy like Mark Giordano is his name and his career make it really hard to

evaluate the actual player. He is. If everyone had no number and no name plate and no age, and these were just different players, we were watching like it was a computer simulation. Would you look at the player Giordano is and say, he's that much better than Lagasin. Would you,

you know, does he give you that much more? I don't know. We just know what he has been and what he's that much better than Lagasin. Would you, you know, does he give you that much more? I don't know. We just know what he has been and what he's got a very good brain for it. But, yeah, I think some of the reason he's played so much more than the guy like Lagasin is just because he's Mark Giordano. Okay, we also have a geo clip, right, on being scratched. And the reason I cut it is I'll just hear what you guys think of the tone that he has in it.

So if you want to play that clip for us there, Derek. All right, Take the rest. I mean, try to keep yourself in a rhythm, though. I mean, when you sit out games, it's hard to stay in a rhythm, so you've got to get your reps through practice and go from there. You see he almost caught himself halfway through that clip, where he's like, oh, I'll take the rest. Oh, but you've got to be ready and want to play.

It feels like this may be more of a mutual situation than maybe you think. Like the fact that he said that off the top like that really took me back. All right, take the rest. I mean. Like he's never been that guy. He's always like got to keep the engines firing, got to keep the engines firing. He has always been the guy who says and does the right thing for the betterment of the team. Oh, he's a pro.

Yeah. He's a pro. So he's, yeah, you're right, Sam. He caught himself between saying, you know, if I say I want the rest and just am I mailing it in or do I want to just remind people that I'm not going anywhere and I want to get back in competing. So that's fine with me it's it's it's I think he played it right um but you know I look at the big picture since

he came over from Seattle uh the Kraken and you know how I felt all along about Gio and for the most part I think it's unfortunate that he needed to come in and look around and see where you're kind of in, what you're missing. And for most of his career as a Leaf, he's been looking like and acting like a top four defenseman. Yeah, he's been awesome as a Leaf. Well, he's been misused. Well well he's been misused well he's been in a perfect world his best contribution would have been as a five six and seven all this time and not asking

him to still at his age act like a top four defenseman but the but sheldon had no choice well that's what i mean no choice you know when you say misused it sounds like a top four defenseman. But Sheldon had no choice. Well, that's what I mean. No choice. When you say misused, it sounds like a coaching thing. It's like when you don't have other better bodies, then he's used the way you're trying to get the most out of your decor. But I could have told you back then that if that's what's going to happen here, he's going to run out of gas. He's going to get hurt. There's going to be nothing left.

You could have told us. You did tell us. You said it then. he's going to run out of gas. He's going to get hurt. There's going to be nothing left. You could have told us. You did tell us. You said it then. Are we really surprised? I mean, I wrote about it at playoffs last year. At this point? He was struggling. He struggled.

So, yeah, it's one of those things. I think it was inevitable. Let's not worry about that until it happens. And now it's happening. Yeah. Yeah, it's an. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting spot for him. You know, wonder how willing he would be to adapt to a spot

where he's the same as Lagasin and Benoit, not even Benoit who's pulled himself out of that, but as a scratch guy with Timmons and Lagasin. But Lagasin has to come in or Timmons has to come in and just prove that you are an upgrade from Geo. Sure. And the Legasin's been good, but it's still been kind of... Yeah, and for the record, Giordano's been fine most of the time,

but yeah, it catches up against Vancouver. I don't know if there's an analytic for breakout passes. I don't know how you would measure that or whatever, but I'm sure the Leafs do not rank well in that in terms of them breaking the puck out to their forwards. It feels like we've talked about this before about them being stretched out, but I think they're just

desperate for another guy that can snap it back there. I think that's why they're giving Timmons another chance. We've all seen Timmons. We all know what Timmons is. I don't know how much more there is to give. is there more for him to give it just feels like they're desperate for a bit of offense from the back end yeah they do definitely love that he's a guy that can make a play he can snap a pass yeah and they don't have a ton of guys like that um but yeah tim and smy would have to play 80 games and more situations and he's he's just got

too long to go at the wrong time for this team. All right, we're going to welcome in Luke Fox. Does a terrific job covering the Leafs daily on Sportsnet.ca. We're going to join him after the break. Pretty powerful guy, Luke Fox. Is he? Well, his last article was on Ryan Reeves, which I read it the other day,

thoroughly enjoyed it. First of all, because my first thought when reading this is like, yeah, I know exactly what Ryan Reeves is going through. I lifted. It's not fun. Right.

And here's a guy for the most part, that's had this great energy and can kind of control, you know a narrative on on a hockey club with just fun energy for the most part and now it's like he's completely neutered yeah when you don't play you don't play that guy and that's the first thing i got out of his article. The second thing I got out of his article was that kind of opened up a little bit of maybe not a dilemma, but an eye-opener. He's been saying he's been healthy for two weeks, and he's still on long-term IR. Yeah, but this is what you do as a reporter is you don't open that up.

You give someone else the rope to do the opening. So the power that Luke Fox I'm talking about is I heard that today's off long term. Oh, is he off today? Ryan Reeves? That's the word. And it's all because of Luke Fox. Well, then waivers tomorrow, I imagine. Stay tuned, folks. Okay.

Let's welcome in Luke after the break. So don't go away. Teeing up the biggest games of the night. It's the Fan Pre Game with Ailish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert. Weekdays at 6 p.m. on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590 The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. back on the real kipper and born show just going to break uh talking ryan reeves and uh awaiting luke fox from sportsnet.ca touching on uh the story that he wrote about Ryan Reeves and the frustration he might be feeling right now being out of the lineup.

How many games? 17? In a while. 17, I think. Yeah. Right around there. Anyways, but it does present a bit of a challenge, JB, when it comes to rosters for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

What are you hearing? Yeah, the convenient thing here, so they would have to drop someone off their active roster. However, Tyler Bertuzzi has been designated a non-roster player while awaiting the birth of his child. So a fortuitous bounce for the Leafs there. Don't know how long you're allowed to be a non-roster player, but that was Jonah Siegel who tweeted that.

Okay. Well, I might buy them time for a day or two to sort things out. Well, and that sorting out is someone's going to be on waivers tomorrow, I would guess. And maybe that's Ryan Reeves. Maybe that's... Go reeves maybe that's go ahead and speculate ryan reeves is that bobby mcmahon ponnis holmberg nick roberts i think there's a chance that uh you lose all those guys i think there's no chance that you lose ryan reeves i that is not a hard decision at all okay let's welcome in the man who started this whole

mess no for the Toronto Maple Leafs Luke Fox hey Luke um before we get into the nuts and bolts on on what uh Ryan Reeves means coming off long-term IR uh I really enjoyed the story for no other reason than it reminded me of the things that I went through in my career when you weren't in the lineup and ultimately how humbling it is. Is that the way you found Ryan Reeves in that situation when you did and wrote this article?

Yeah, 100%. You know, I just find him a really fascinating character on the Maple Leafs just because there was so much fanfare when he came in, there was a lot of bluster about how he was going to bring snot to the lineup. You know, I remember opening night, he's pointing to his biceps during the introductions and Brad for

living's getting a good chuckle. And he was saying how he was going to come in and make the dressing room a louder place. He gets into fights. He starts, you know, kind of trash talking Corey Perry a little bit in the media. And there was a lot of hype around him.

And then the results on the ice didn't follow. Then he gets injured and he's quietly rehabbing, but he's ditched the non-contact sweater for a while. And he's just been practicing, you know, game days, off days, everything. He's just hitting the ice. And he's kind of on an island a little bit. I mean, Nick Robertson's there with him, but Nick's gotten into the lineup a little bit. Reeves has kind of become the 14th forward. And I just thought, hey, you know, I should have a chat with him, see how he's doing, see how he's feeling.

And, you know, obviously he's frustrated, but, you know, someone asked me, like, did someone say, hey, you should go talk to Ryan? I was like, no. You know, it was my idea to talk to him. And understandably, he's a competitor. He wants to play hockey. And, you know, it's kind of like the Wayne Simmons situation, except the thing here is he still has two and a half years left on his deal.

So, you know, he got a nice paycheck, lots of hype, and less than halfway into his first season as a Leaf, he's on the outside looking in. I know you are a reporter and you don't want to traffic in speculation, but I would like to get just your thought on how you think this could, or what the option, how this may play out.

You know, thinking about this guy with all this term left on his contract and doesn't seem happy not playing. Yeah, well, I mean, this happened last year, right? He had a run of healthy scratches with the New York Rangers, and then they were able to find a new home for him, right, in the Minnesota Wild. The thing is, that was only a half a year left.

This is a bit, there's a lot of money and a lot of term. He's 37. He's coming off an injury. You know, this is a guy that could probably clear waivers at this point um now that could happen as early as this week i'm not sure but what does that say that it's kind of waving the white flag that a reeves doesn't have it anymore and b trey living made a mistake it's you know i think a lot of people already feel that way. Some people felt that way on the day he signed. But if he hits the waiver wire with two and a half years left on his deal,

it's kind of admitting that it was a bad signing. Yes, it is. But, you know, option C is that I can't take out McMahon. I can't take out Greger. I can't take out Holmberg. So that's just, that's the way it goes. And I get it, Luke and JB, that it doesn't look great for Brad Treliving

that it's a three-year deal. But if he clears and goes down, there's all but what, $200,000 a year that actually really affects you? So is that that big of a deal? I get it. They're pushed up against the cap. Every dollar counts.

But it's not like it's millions. No, you're right. Like financially, it's not a massive hit. And when I asked Sheldon about Reeves' case, he's basically like, we know what he is uh we have a good idea of what he is we're trying to find out what pontus holmberg is we're trying to find out if bobby mcmahon can give us more uh they're experimenting with holmberg on the wing you know they're moving him around the lineup seeing if he can pitch in on a top six i get it

and the other the other factor is, you know, the Leafs haven't built themselves enough of a cushion to experiment and throw Reeves in the odd game the way they did with Wayne Simmons. You know, every point matters. So if the coach thinks playing someone other than Reeves, you know, be it McMahon, be it Holmberg, whoever, gives us a better chance to win on that night. They need the points.

They're closer to a wild card spot than they are the second seed. So you have to factor in the urgency to keep accumulating points into this as well. Where do you fall on, like, how public narrative is about this Leafs team versus what the team actually is? You know, sometimes we get accused of being too critical um you know some we also hear the opposite too so you know maybe we're doing okay there but i had someone say like the leafs actually haven't been that bad since you know just before christmas or you know whatever the opinion may be but right now it feels like there's just a lot of negativity

around a team that is you know in a playoff spot and has some good players where do you fall on what they actually are versus public narrative? Yeah. I mean, they're, they're a good team. The problem is at this stage, they should be a great team. Yeah. Expectation. Austin Matthews, you know, we're debating whether he's on pace for 68 or 70 goals.

William Nylander is having the best season of his life. Mitch is, is doing just fine. I mean, maybe not his best year but you know he he's looked dangerous uh morgan riley's having a fantastic year like it's just i think it's based on expectations it's based on history the fan base tired of of seeing this team you know not go out and just dominate right they're getting by on overtime wins one goal wins they're blowing leads or sometimes they're coming back and and regaining regaining the lead and getting points but they're what are they you know like they're the second tier team like that they're in the mix but they're

not one of those teams that you would look back and say, this is a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. They're one or two pieces away. Maybe they can fix that at the trade deadline. There's been a lot of holes, whether that's the defense, whether that's patchwork goaltending, or, you know, a bottom six that, like I look at that Vancouver game, guys, and I thought the Leafs top players were fantastic. But then the bottom six, Vancouver just ran all over them.

And I am concerned that they don't have the right mix, the right recipe to go on a deep run. Earlier, Luke, in your quick shifts on Sportsnet.ca, you talked about TJ Brody and the struggles that he's going through earlier we we heard him talk about uh um you know mentally there might the thoughts are sometimes there's more to just hockey and and we've talked about that well we also know that he's gone through some personal family um issues and situations and i won't even elaborate even more because I don't know what's public or not at this point,

but well, his father passed away in the summer. Yeah. And, and listen, that's, that's no totally. Okay.

Thanks. Totally legit. Is this a, is this a guy in your opinion that could maybe use some time off if, if he needs it or are the Leafs at that point where they just can't let him do it, no matter how much he's struggling right now? We have nobody else. Well, you make a good point there.

And I don't know if he even is asking for time off. I think there's, I don't want to speculate on how much what's going on in his personal life has affected his play, but there's also just the aging curve and hitting the wall. And I actually think we saw a little bit of that in the Florida series when they tried to make TJ Brody one half of a pure shutdown pair. And he got, he got worn out a little bit. And I think he's, he's done very well.

He's helped Morgan Riley havelly have a fantastic season. But at this stage in his career, I just think he's a second pair guy, a third pair guy on a really great team. And he's still being asked to face the toughest matchups every single night. He's still being asked to play first pair minutes. And that's just out of necessity out of the roster construction so it's not unlike what's happened to giordano you know these guys are just on the wrong side of the aging curve it's starting to catch up with them and you have to put them in in a position to succeed

but keeps probably looking down the bench and saying okay who do i give more minutes to lilligran well i have my own issues with Lilligren right now. And Keith made those clear on the trip. He said he actually is a guy we want more out of. You know, Benoit seems to be improving and playing above his head, but I don't think anyone thinks he's a true first-pairing guy. So Brody's the guy he trusts, and Brody's feeling it right now. And that was the first time in his whole Leafs tenure. It was after the Calgary game where he said, you know,

I have to remind myself it's not the end of the world, even though it feels like that sometimes. And that's the most raw and candid I've seen TJ Brody. And he's feeling it. Like there's been some blatant mistakes that have come off him. The one where he lifts his foot when all he needs to do is touch it and get the whistle. That one sticks out to me. Like he's just worn down he's starting to make some some mental mistakes

so we've been trying to manage the we the leafs have been trying to manage the goaltending mental mistakes a little bit uh over the course of this season samsonov's you know mental uh he's talked about his struggles i guess just like staying positive when things haven't gone well but he went back came back you know to the minors he's looked about his struggles, I guess, just like staying positive when things haven't gone well. But he went back, came back, you know, to the minors. He's looked pretty good in a couple appearances. What do you think they're trying to have happen with the Leafs? Like, is it trying to get Samson off somewhere where he's the backup?

Or is this kind of just like they think Jones is going to be the better guy and they're just going to let Samson off, prove that to him and everyone else? I don't even know what the best-case scenario for this Leafs team is. Yeah, it really feels like they're taking it day by day or week by week and trying to figure it out as they go along. I mean, they've been throwing some curveballs here with the wall injury, and Samsonov's just mental struggles. Like, he never really got it going.

And so I'm cautiously optimistic i don't want to read too much into you know a decent showing but a loss to detroit a week off and then a lightly tested but solid win his first win in 43 days against a really depleted seattle kraken team but to his credit it one-goal game in the third period, came up with a massive save. He had probably two or three 10-bellers. And just as his visually, like the way he looks, it looks like his confidence is starting to get back.

Like his demeanor is a little bit better. So I'm happy that he's getting the start tomorrow against Winnipeg, against a real stiff competition, because in my mind, you have to figure out what you have in this guy. Is he going to be a number two when Wall's healthy? Is he a guy you can trust? Or is he not quite all the way back yet?

You know, I'm not ready to declare that we're back to 22, 23 stamps off just yet. But I do like the fact that he's going to get some run. And hey, if he looks good in this Winnipeg game, I'd throw him right back out there on Saturday. I got to think, Luke, plan A is Joseph Wall. Yeah. And pick up where you left off.

From what you've seen or heard in the last little while, I assume that in a perfect world, he's ready to go the moment the All-Star break is over. And what are you hearing? Well, it's not so much what I'm hearing as what I'm seeing. I mean, he was on the Western Canadian road trip and he was working out, but he was working out solo, right? With Curtis Sanford, just going through the motions, working on his movements. You know, they're being very cautious because, like you said,

the plan is for him to be the number one game one of the playoffs. So you don't want to rush a high ankle sprain. Definitely he's not going to play this week, but he needs to get in some practices with the team. Like right now he's still practicing solo. And they're hesitant to put a timeline. I think maybe because if he misses that timeline, then it puts more pressure on him and them.

So they're being pretty cagey about when they actually expect them to get into game action. What do you think? Coming off the struggles of Ryan Reeves, where are you with john tavaris is this a hiccup or is this again to your point about tj brody where father time kind of catches up to you a little bit where are you on the side of of what john tavaris is going through i'm i'm less concerned about him than i am brody or Giordano, for sure. I think it's going to come. He looked pretty good in that Seattle game.

Again, you know, it's not against the stiffest competition, but he was utterly dominant in the face-off circle. I think he went 12 for 14. He was around the net. The puck didn't fall for him. But, yeah, it's got to be frustrating. So now this is the longest point route since the guy was a rookie and he's just maintained this level of consistency when it

comes to his production that a dip like this is is getting a lot of attention but i think it's going to come for him yeah is he the same player he was last year no he's losing a step but i don't think all of a sudden that john tavares has fallen off the map here. I wouldn't be surprised if once he gets one, he goes on a streak of four or five games where he gets a point. Yeah, no, I can see that too. And just last one for me, there's been a lot of talk about the coach the last couple of weeks,

but they get a couple of wins on the road trip. Do we feel like some of that pressure has been alleviated from Sheldon? Yeah, a little bit for sure um there definitely was it was tense times on on the road trip though there were a couple practices where he was i mean it's not like he's a shrinking violet but he was a little more vocal than normal especially um the uh the morning skate of the calgary game was like a 20 minute morning skate and he was calling a couple guys out, really yelling. And usually morning skates are just, you know, you go through your motions, you get a little sweat in, you know, you go through your special teams, whatever.

That morning felt tense, and that win felt like a massive relief off his shoulders. You know, Jordan Bean comes in with the video review. Austin Matthews throws the team on the back. Like that was a massive win to alleviate some pressure. I guess if they had a loss to that bad Seattle team, it would be right back to it. So it's we're taking this in two or three game stints.

And I know there's a segment of the fan base screaming, screaming fire Keefe. But I don't get the sense that Trey living's there yet. I mean, I think his leash is a bit longer than, than some people believe. Yeah. All right, Luke. Great stuff, man.

You got anything else? No, I was it all good. Appreciate your time, Luke. Thanks, man. All right. Anytime guys. Good rest of your show. The very powerful Luke Fox does He does wield real, real power.

I am fascinated by the idea of Sheldon Keefe at a morning skate getting aggressive. You know, like really, but it just really speaks to like desperation at that point, right? Where you're like. Yeah, I think just, it's got to be an uncomfortable feeling knowing game to game now you're potentially in a wild card spot. That's new to him.

Yeah. I think that and when you're new as a coach, like you know they're not going to fire you after a year, generally speaking so you have some runway once you've been somewhere for four or five years and the success isn't there in in a big market like this anytime there's any sustained period of losing things get hot quick so it's just a tough market to lose it yeah you know don't lose this wind pressure yeah i gotta tell you losses suck fair enough i'm not i don't think

he's anywhere near off a warm seat no no like if they get starched wednesday against one of the best teams in the league you know what the conversation is going to be immediately amongst fans anyways fans yep here yeah you know earlier we were talking about about some teams just trying to get to a break. I heard the other day, last week we did Toronto and Detroit, right? Yeah. And they came in really, really late. But I heard their day was phenomenal in terms of they were supposed to leave the night before

to come to Toronto. They ended up trying to leave the morning of because of a plane issue. Apparently, they went up in the air and had to come back because of that. Oh, really? Like our wing fell off? Something. I don't necessarily want to say that an engine dropped or anything like that, but it was concerning enough yeah they

spent the whole day waiting for another plane they weren't even sure another mechanical issue like it was it was a one you're not gonna have a longer day than them yeah so i i just remembered when someone was telling me this story about their reaction when they actually won the game and yeah they went nuts they went nuts they went. They went nuts. They went nuts. They went nuts. They went nuts because of the day that they had, and they had every reason to lose and lose bad. And they were down in that game.

Yeah. All the more embarrassing that Elise lost that game. Okay. Let him back in. I got to read for you here. From February 1st to the 3rd, all the stars in Toronto for the NHL All-Star Weekend will be giving away tickets to the different events and episodes today until January 26th.

Today we have tickets for the NHL All-Stars Skills Competition featuring 12 NHL All-Stars competing for a series of challenges like the Rogers NHL Hardest Shot for a take-home prize of $1 million. To enter for a chance to win, text in today's code word CHALLENGE to 590590, and we'll have another code word in tomorrow's episode, so be sure to tune in. That code word is CHALLENGE. So text 590590. Alrighty. It's almost time for us to do a show on the road.

There we go. Fanfare. Ways to go, right? What is it? Two weeks? Yeah, I guess it's sneaking up. It's a week and a half from now. Wow. Wear a real Kipper and Bourne hats.

You guys want to wear matching hats? Yes, we are wearing matching hats that day. Sweet. We are. Also pajamas. Meet us on the 9th, 3 and 9. Wear something nice. Alright. Thanks to Luke Fox. screen at nine right wear something nice all right our thanks to luke fox does a terrific job yeah uh in the next hour uh we're gonna welcome in bruce budro yes so we got a ton to get into and get his thoughts on vancouver toronto edmonton we're also going to talk a little bit about

carter hart taking a leave of absence and what that means in terms of this ongoing investigation to the world junior team canada team of 2018 yep can we expect something coming now soon we'll talk about that and more as we continue on the real kipper and born show on the national edition We'll be you next time.