Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Blues Beatdown

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin Friday's show examining St. Louis' 5-1 drubbing of the Maple Leafs at Scotiabank Arena. They get into the poor play of Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner and their accountability after Thursday's loss. Which player is more to blame for their line's recent struggles? Next, they get into the play of Joseph Woll in his season debut, Craig Berube's post-game comments regarding the Leafs being too cute at times, and the woeful powerplay. Finally, the guys discuss the players' reaction to the Blues loss and whether Matthews has changed his style of play now that he's captain.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's do this. We have to. Welcome to the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. I'm Nick Kiprios. He's Justin Bourne. He's a very dejected Sammy McKee. Derek Brandeo and Jake the Snake Schultz. Ready to give you our breakdown,

our analysis of your Toronto Maple Leafs Leaf Edition. Yeah. Hi, guys. We are live on Sportsnet 590. The fan of Sportsnet 360 and sports net plus the st. Louis Blues come in and spoil Craig Brewe's revenge game Sammy oh yeah spoiled it we thought

that could give the Leafs enough juice to come off that horrible game against Columbus but JB it didn't happen no I'm actually I'm really happy to start generally on the game last night. You know, this Leaf core has come back from embarrassing moments

almost without fail with some vindication. And to go get beat by four by the St. Louis Blues on home ice last night in the Ruby game, in the wall game, people are not happy. So they are new. They are new Leafs. New look Leafs. It is so typical of this city, my hometown, born and raised here, and it just seems like nothing's changed.

It's either it's the greatest in the world or it's let's blow the whole thing up. There's just nothing in between with this hockey club. Are you here to be the voice of reason today? I'm very interested in this. I am. How you're building this up. I'm not building anything up.

I'm not. I'm not. Stream of consciousness. I just believe that there's something in the middle that the truth lies in. That's all. Of course. Of course. I did mention to you earlier in the week, it's just six games.

Can you just kind of relax a little bit here? Look who you're talking to, pal. Yeah, those are bad losses. There's two bad losses this week. I get that. But are you ready to just blow it up? Yeah, I know what I'm ready to blow up. What?

PP1. I'm ready to blow that up. Yeah. If we're talking about blow it up, I'll blow that up. Okay, so we're going to get into the power play. We'll get into it all. Do you want to start with, you know, an overall theme off of what I just said,

or do you want to go more game specific and go to Craig Groobies? Let's talk about what we should talk about. Okay. All right. So you're going to do this. I'm not. Yeah. I'll follow up. Everyone.

I'm just, I'm not into the panic mode right now. No one wants to talk about the power play. They want to talk about Matthews and Marner. They want to talk about this core and what's going on you know they have not matthews and marner i think over the last two games are on for no goals four and five against they're they've been brutal they've been brutal and even more you know there's plenty of things to be concerned about. It's the defensive errors that people are highlighting, the lack of positional commitment, the lack of details, which is my article is about details today.

If you check out sportsnet.ca, and people are upset about it. The best players have not been good. We suck. I didn't say that. All right, Kip, what do you got no i got nothing i got nothing you know i will say this though that you know you come in you want to paint the brush with matthews and marner you know and like i'll paint it just on matthews I'll just push Marner to his side right now, and I'll go. Like, that guy last night for me, if I want to just go to the very top, not good enough,

and I think he mentioned that in his comments after, but way too casual for me. Way too casual. And so why are we pushing a side Marner? Because there's only one guy that claims to be the second best player on the planet. There's only one guy that they blew up John Tavares' captaincy for. That guy's got a letter on his shirt that's the guy that was supposed to come in here and and have a new look to him and a in a different feel and so far

nada feathers so don't it's not math it's not marner wearing the c it's not marner who's supposed to be running toe-to-toe with connor mcdavid whenever he's going bad though we we say well he's not matthews then when he's going good it's like well isn't he matthews he he ain't matthews and so far this year my biggest concern is not just the two of them and they're they can't in their line and defensive issues it's creating like matthews is at least creating. So far on this season, like, last night, Matthews must have had, I don't know, eight chances, and yeah, they're not going in.

But, I mean, Marner's not getting opportunities. He's not touching the puck. He's not touching the puck. He's not getting the puck. They're not, again, they're not very good at passing the puck, whether you're talking about five-on-five right now or that whole power play. But again, Matthews, number one centerman, eight games, two assists.

Go find me other star centermen and tell me that they've got two assists in eight games. I know Marner's your boy. I just, I hate having to be. It's not that he's my boy. It's the bigger picture for me is Matthews right now. And you know what sucks though is I would love to do that too. I would love to also point out some of Matthews' flaws.

But if I do that, we're just going to sit here and crap on Matthews and it's not going to be a fair representation. But for four years, you crap on Marner sit here and crap on Matthews, and it's not going to be a fair representation. But for four years, you're crap on Marner. Why not crap on Matthews by himself? Because to me, it's like a defense mechanism, so our show is representing. TV, you watched them last night. They referred to the centerman.

It's Matthews. Okay, the goal where he's in the corner with McCabe, the one that put the game kind of out of reach at 3-1. Yeah. It's a one-on-two okay he's in there and he's fishing for pucks while marner's at center ice skating the other direction he's at center when i don't care where the other guys are the puck is with you and mccabe you can't sort it out you won't take the man You want to go in there and fish pucks out and look casual.

You look ridiculous. The point is these guys, you know, this season, they're making a couple million bucks of one another. And the two of them, their line, they can't carry a single line right now. And they do like chances and opportunities and all that. I got individual scoring chances this year. Matthews 38, Marner 15.

High danger chances. I got Matthews 17, Marner 2. You know, like this guy's supposed to be a 100-point guy who is one of the reasons they go, and they're not scoring. They're not getting anything accomplished out there. And so I get your point that Matthews has been the last two games terrible defensively. Terrible lack of detail, pinching in, swiping at pucks, not committed.

It's the worst I've ever seen him play defensively. The worst. By far. But why? Number one centerman. Yeah. But why is that? Is it because the pressure of the seat?

That's a great question. Is it, you know, a different coach? Like, that's supposed to be more defensive-minded, that he's trying to do too much offensively to impress a coach? Like, I don't know why. And I, to be honest, I thought he was going to be a different coach, like that's supposed to be more defensive-minded, that he's trying to do too much offensively to impress the coach. Like, I don't know why. And I, to be honest, I thought he was really good offensively last night. Defensively, awful. But still, his dynamic self-worth.

He had a big rush, I think, on the power play. Lots of chances, Kip. I know. And there are chances that are usually individual efforts. Okay. Okay? Yeah. They're not, it's not, it's not a look of five guys on the ice.

It's not even a look of two guys with Marner. It's just him going out there and trying to do something on his own. And it's great when you're getting bounces and you got a little puck luck and all good goal scorers to get to 70 or 80 goals have to have those those bounces of course he's got no bounces he had the open net and right uh suitor ryan suitor's skate blade not even looking at preco sorry preco like that usually goes in for that guy so now all

of a sudden you're not getting those bounces. Plus you're out there super casual. It's the best way I can describe him. I do too, but hold on now. He's playing like he dresses to the game. Super casual. And we don't adhere to dress codes. What's crazy is this coach was supposed to be the guy that made Matthews. Everyone was like, he's been a great defensive center,

and this is going to make him a Selkie guy. This is going to make him that. Was that word said about Matthews? Like, Berube could help him get to, he got Selkie votes last year. You know, this guy's going to be put over the top. I've never seen him look worse in that department. And so. Both of them.

Martin is awful defensively, too, and he's usually really good defensively. Agreed. Another guy who gets Selkie votes. Both of martin is awful defensively too and he's usually really good another guy both of them awful offensively so what i'm trying to make sense of is bruby is supposed to be the motivator or the accountability guy right last night neither of those guys sit for one shift nylander turns one over which we've seen him do high in the offensive zone and a goal goes the other way he doesn't sit for a shift. So he was not the accountability guy or the motivator or the details guy. And unity, chemistry, great skill.

What is Berube going to be here? It's a good question, but I think it's pretty well been stated that from the moment you hired him to training camp up until two games ago, that he was going to be the guy that straightened a lot of this out. And what happened? Like, how do you go from, again, those extremes that I talked about at the top of the show, how do you look from, again, those extremes that I talked about

at the top of the show, how do you look like a contending team for the Stanley Cup Monday and then two games later look like you're going to miss the playoffs? Habits take time to break. I don't know. So they bought in. They were all in up until two games ago. And what happened?

They got tired of his dump and chase. They got tired of hitting. What happened? You know, that's an interesting idea. My article today does theorize that, you know, in the early days you're trying to impress your coach. You play the way he wants to so he plays you. And then the lineup crystallizes and you see how he's going to use you.

It's pretty clear to these guys they're still going to play 22 minutes a night they're still going to play power play one they're still getting all their cookies we have had that conversation i've had that conversation all of a sudden it's like first dates over every i've used the term everybody's on their best behavior but when you get to a point where you're not feeling great and you've already had a couple of bumps and bruises, can you do it when you're not feeling like you got your A game or can you bring that every night? Right. Doesn't even have to equate to wins all the time, but can you be a sore loser and make teams pay the price

if they're going to come in and get two points just do your job we didn't question it against tampa bay but now we are after two games do you want to play or do you not want to play or does the stars have to align for you it have to feel good you know is the sun out is it cloudy like what's the deal guys when do you show up and when you not show up the analogy i used in my article was like patrice bergeron when he defended he didn't defend by being physical and mean and on pucks he was you know like a good sauce gardener on the jets no one throws at sauce because he's on top of his guy and he's great and that's bergeron he was above his player he was in

front of the net he didn't have to make plays because he was always in the right position these guys don't seem to be willing right now to work hard to get in the right positions and they're chasing the game rushes against the last two games have been staggering can i uterize something else yeah that's been different than the last we got no answers hopefully you got something the best goal in the league didn't play in the last two games? We got no answers. Hopefully you got something. The best goal in the league didn't play in the last two games. That also. That also. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but you know, they were getting world-class goaltending in the first two

games and they didn't get it in the last two games. Could they have lost against Tampa Bay without Stollers? Because he was really good. He was good, but they had a big lead. The thing that sticks out to you in that Monday game against Tampa Bay was a five-on-three where he was unbelievable, but it was still 4-1, and it was still a game, and he made a couple awesome saves, including that goal line one

where he takes it off the goal line. I'm not going to take away anything from that performance. They were dominant in that game. Listen, you guys know how I felt about Wall going in. We talked about it before the game yesterday. What did you think watching him not ready not ready not ready mentally physically emotionally that guy looked a wreck last night it was not on so what was it three goals on 14 i think at 14 14 15 at one point okay can we can we pull a goalie is that okay or is that allowed well no i'm serious no no i i know

you're serious i just it's funny how everyone's so sensitive about that now you used to just be like no good enough not good enough who's up but this is the 3 and 14 not good enough but so barubi's the accountability coach i can't believe we didn't see something last night you know we saw dry style get benched earlier in the year for a couple of games or a couple of shifts anyway i cannot believe neil under went back over the over the boards after that great great observation so is there a like you talk about impressing the coach with the guys and them playing hard to start and what we haven't seen in the last couple games like is there a worry from berube that like showing his true self before we hit the 10 game

mark here with benchings and changing everything up that he's worried that it could go the other way. Because I got to tell you the change, like I know we're a weather vane fan base and like, I am part of it. I am fully aware. I am fully aware of that. But even for us, like the change in tone from 11-15 on Monday night

to where we're sitting here right now amongst the fan base, it's a one-y. Like they are, like I looked at the practice lines being tweeted out by, they tweeted out the lines today, David Alter or whatever, tweeted out the lines with like just them the same. And I went through the mentions of that tweet. It's like, oh my God, people are so ready to hate this team.

Literally, it's just the lines and the responses are like, yeah, sure, give it another shot. You know, LOL. You know, yeah. Oh, this accountability thing is not true. And just like, yes, it's just the lines and people are like not happy. People are looking for any reason to hate this group of guys.

But it really goes back to the doubling down, the tripling down, the quadrupling down of that core group. Yeah. What's five? Five-ing down. Quinn. Can you quinting down? Cinco down.

Joel Cinco. What was the major change? Not that core group, but the coach. And then the coach is done. This is the same lines as Matthews and Marner, and they're playing the same minutes, and they're playing the same everything. I can see where they're coming from, right? Oh, yeah.

It's like, okay, they get off to a decent start, and the guys are playing hard, and a huge win against Tampa Bay, and it's okay. Maybe the coaches come in there and really did what they thought he could do, and that's changed the culture inside the room. The second they get a whiff of a belief that the city is believing in them and whatever, that's when there's like a trap door

beneath the fan base's feet. It really is remarkable. It's Lucy and Charlie Brown of the football. I'm not happy to hear the same lines. I'm not, okay? And I'll... I didn't mention it the other day because, again, I'm thinking it to hear the same lines. I'm not. Okay. And I'll, I didn't mention it the other day because again, I'm thinking it's early here.

He's maybe just sorting things out, but the Columbus game, I'm watching it. They're getting blown out and I'm watching Marner, Matthews and Nylander together. And I'm like, I'm like, what is going on here? Marner, Matthews, and Nylander together. Like Sheldon? I'm like, what is going

on here? I had the exact same thought. Why are those three guys together? And I know the telecast, they were referencing being down 5-0 to Columbus and then the 6-5, remember, the comeback?

And it's like, you know the worst thing that could happen right now is a comeback. The worst thing. The last thing these guys need is to feel like they can go down 5-0 and never be out of a game. And now we're back to outscoring your mistakes. It's like they should have lost 12, and those guys should never have even seen a shift in the last 10 minutes. Well, one thing that we had complained about

during the Sheldon Keefe coaching era was that he tried to win every game with no willingness to zoom out on the season. He was always like, don't care if Nylander's been bad tonight. Two minutes left, we're down two. He's on the ice. Don't care if he's been the worst he's ever been.

And we were saying at some point, you need to, the accountability is saying we might lose tonight, but I'm going to show these guys that we're not going to be okay with that kind of play. And here we are. Yeah. Exactly the same. So.

Okay, let's go. OEL's with Riley now. So that's go. OEL is with Riley now, so that's the. Let's go to Craig Brewey, clip one, on his overview of the game. We made mistakes, bottom line, defensive mistakes. Lack of awareness on some of them. Just for me, we gave him three goals, you shouldn't happen yes okay all right defensive mistakes we saw yeah why why are those happening so okay hold on hold on yeah why are the so what's better and i'm not just talking from a from a show perspective if you are just joe winotobaco that's a fan of the toronto maple

leaves do you want sheldon keith up there going on for a minute and a half talking about the breakdowns of the game and being like this is why we did this this is what happened here this or do you want craig berube just be like listen we were bad i like what is a more desirable thing that he knows what's going on. You have to be able to identify the problems to know how to solve them. And I just want some sort of clue that he's like, here's why, you know,

we're working on some sort of system. There's got to be some reason. And if there's not some reason, then it's just, guys aren't listening, guys aren't. Maybe other people, maybe you want the verbiage. It just might be early though. It still just might be't listening. Guys aren't. Maybe you want the Burbun.

It just might be early, though. It still just might be too early for him to say something of substance. Yeah. You're right, though. You're right. If he came out and ripped him to pieces, we might be like eight games in. That's a little early. So maybe that's a good point.

There's got to be a bit of a fine line, though, because we'll see what happens Saturday night. They're going into a place where they're dying for a win, too, in Boston. And then you got to go play the hottest team in hockey right now in Winnipeg Monday night. He can't keep going to the well with just a few little sound bites, cliches. He's going to have to kind of have a bit more of an explanation on things. You think, right?

And you think he will? I don't think he will. Yeah, I think in this town you got to – and we've seen Rick Talkett out in Vancouver over the transition of taking a very bad team and pushing them into a contending environment. In this market, in this country, you can't kind of blow it off every night when there are performances like that. Yeah.

So it's still early for me. It's early for sure. And that has to be said early. Like, you know, but that last night did shake me a bit, if I'm being totally honest. Because you do expect, and we've been used to the bounce backs, and we've been used to it in that spot where they come back and they play great, and they just play the opposite of great,

and it's the stars that don't look good. Like, when you're not getting production from Matthews and Marner and Tavares and Willie, who make up however much of your cap, you're not going to win a ton of games, and it's been two straight games of nothing from those guys, right? Actually, the opposite of nothing. Like, they're actively hurting you. Right.

So, I don't know, man. I don't know. Last night was a shaker for me. I know it's early, but I'm a weathervane, and that one stung. We have more, Berube. We actually have an elaboration on those defensive issues. Do you want to do that next? Sure.

Clip two. We're just losing coverage when we're not helping each other out in the coverage areas. Like too much time and space on some of them instead of being physical and closing plays out. The PK goal, our forward's in the wrong spot. They get it to the front of the net. It's just

more. Some of them are mental mistakes. Some of them, we've got to be harder. We've got to be more physical. Does it come from just cheating? Your responsibilities? Because maybe Matthews does it come from just cheating like your responsibilities because maybe matthews or marner want to get their points back up maybe um yeah i i do think that there is a

hedging to the offensive side of things right now instead of just like backing out and defending a little bit um we got quite a few bruby clips one of them is on being too cute, which to me is related to this. We'd go with the clip seven. He was asked by Zyze about on the play that you were so mad about with Matthews. He asked him why

I almost called him Brian McCabe. Well, why Jake McCabe did a through the legs pass below the red line. I don't know if you caught that. He was handcuffed. I thought it was actually a pretty good play to get it. He asked him about that, and then this was his response. So here you go. A lot of that in these last two games for me is our whole team's getting a little cute.

And, you know, we just got to play direct. And, you know, like, we don't need that kind of stuff. Listen, cute's been around a while in this town. Be a little too cute with it. They've been cute. I'm trying to beat the cute out of this group. I don't know if you can de-cute this group. I don't, the core, you can't de-cute the core.

Habits take time. Even that New Ender one? Eight years of habits. don't know if you can de-cute this group i don't the core you can't de-cute the core habits take time even that neil andrew one eight year eight years of habits yeah and that that neil andrew one remember he did this last year trent frederick against the boston bruins pokes it free goes into breakaway and scores yeah willie did the same thing in playoffs and scored he shot it in the net in like a pretty big spot if i recall and it's like live by the sword die by the sword of willie it live by the cute die by the cute i don't know if you're ever gonna dequeue i don't like your odds of of living through it though you're probably win a stanley cup 16 playoff wins catch up over two months of must win games in the, that doesn't equal out to being on the right side to win a Stanley Cup.

Death by cute. It is. Death cap for cute. You have to, the game on the defensive side, you want analytics? Mm-hmm. Okay? Play the percentages on the right side of the puck defensively, and you can't have a 50-50 scenario.

Willie will lose when it matters most. Play the right way. Okay, so we've gone 25 minutes. We do have to mention the power play. I'm going to read your stat on here. Yeah, please do. The previous 41 games, sorry, last 41 games, this power play is 12.1%. That's 32nd in the NHL.

How many teams in the league again? 32, I think. Okay, not good. 15 for 124 in the last 40 games. And the previous 41 games, 28.4%, fourth in the NHL. So they have gone from among the best to the worst. It is. No, it's not only the worst.

It's the worst in the Matthews, Nylander, Marner era. Couldn't do worse with it. It is the ugliest looking power play in nine years. They don't even get a sniff. Brubay, if you want to play his clip on the power play there, Derek. They got some looks again tonight. They get looks, you know, but it's still a little bit, they're not seeing it.

You know what I mean? They're not really seeing it right now. And, you know, they'll get it going. We'll keep working at it. But at least we converged the net more tonight and got pucks there more tonight, you know? I asked a power play coach once, would you rather have a bunch of super skilled guys

who use that ability to kind of freelance and figure it out or a bunch of guys who did what you want them to do, up, over, down, the basics? And he said the latter. He would just rather have have a plan that guys knew what they were doing and executed it and guys you could trust to do it rather than a bunch of skill trying to overthink it but if you don't have that ability to take your skill to a high level then you're not then you're starting to play more of the percentages that I spoke of. So it's safer. What do you mean?

What's safer? I'm just saying that when you have high skill like that, you're going to try things that normal guys would not try. For sure. But you've got to start with, I guess what I'm getting is, you've got to start with the bones of structure. Yes. We have a plan first, and then if something opens up,

you go, oh, I can go cross seam now. Yeah, and it just doesn't seem, it it's slow it's just slow for me i watch other power plays and i watched st louis snap in the puck and they got like i don't even know what's in that lineup really who's their most skilled guy kairu yeah who by the way? My neighbors. Neighbors jumped off the ice to me last night. For sure. And they were snapping it around like they had $45 million in four guys.

You know who else was jumping off the page for me last night for them? That Broberg looks like a pretty good hockey player. Tough night for the Oilers. Watching Broberg light it up. But anyways. You gotta look like you know what you're doing before you get the puck and after you get the puck and right now they're just slow for me and predictable if I you and I have watched all eight games in preseason

close as anyone and if I gave you a pen paper and said you know mark savard clearly tells this team here's the plan what do you think the plan is let's see if it matches up with what savard's plan actually is i wouldn't have a clue personally where to start like who are they trying to get a shot for where are they trying to drive it from who's do you know what's what's option one don't know what's like their number one the the play that happens the most right now is it ends up on Tavares' stick and he shovels one towards it. Like tries to drive to the right.

Like jam play. That's the play. That thing happens so much. To me, I see like a Matthews who's had solid possession for four seconds, wrister. Yeah. A failed cross-ice pass.

How well is Mark T Savard sleeping these days? Not well. Not well. He got like $50 million on that power play. Yeah. Like he's got to figure something out too. Yeah. You know, you kind of got to go back and watch

when they've been successful what it's looked like where where was it coming from when it was going in can i ask you guys if the edmonton oilers who have had the best power play in the league for however many years can have a slow start to the season and their coach who i guess maybe feels the heat a little bit more than knoblock and his i'm sorry the more than brube does and his crew can be like, we're breaking this up and we're going to try something different. Why can't they do that here? What it's, if they can do it, I wouldn't have said this if the literal Edmonton Oilers

haven't considered it. Like just try it at practice. They're like, they still are going to, they're still practicing it. It's just try it at practice. They still are going to practice. They're still practicing it. It's like, it doesn't work. I get it. I get it. It's 41 games, Kip, that they're 12%.

15 for 124. Let's revisit the Edmonton Oiler power play after the weekend. It just needs a wake-up call. That's all it is. And we'll see what Connor decides. We had Adam Oates on yesterday on our national program. If you didn't catch it,

go download it. Find it on a podcast. He's right. They're going to go out there anyways. And guess what? Connor ain't coming off for an oblock. And if he wants Hyman on it, he's getting Hyman. That's the way it works today, Sammy.

None of them are McDavid, buddy. They're not McDavid. And it's a new coach. The whole thing, the whole, like me and Bunk Talk was last night. You sit up there and you preach accountability. Austin, when Austin wants to go on, he's going to go on. When he wants to come off, he's going to come off. When he wants to come off, he's going to come off. Has it changed that much from when you played?

He owns it. So it's just the same thing as last year. So it's just the same thing as always. So it should have kept Shelton. I guess that's what I'm saying, Bruxy. Is that what we're saying here? It's a little early. It's not a little early.

It's 41 games. They've scored 15 power play goals in 41 games it's early for ruby i do like oel up there just sorry john see you got to get john like i like oel i like him a lot i don't like him that much. I do. Calm down. Why? So that guy wins a Stanley Cup, and he's a third pair guy, and he comes to your Toronto Maple Leafs, he becomes the number one defenseman on the team. Yeah.

You're okay with that? I mean, I think it says more about where the rest of the decor is than it does about him. Okay. But I think he's been good and earned his minutes. But he's not, and earned his minutes. But he's not at his age right now. He's not a number one defenseman. And I'm not sure he's a number one quarterback for a contending team on a Stanley Cup. I mean, so he might be.

I mean, he's better than Riley up there. I'm not saying he's not. Yeah. But he's going to be. I mean, he's better than Riley up there. I'm not saying he's not. Yeah. But he's going to be, he's 33 years old. There's some weather there. Yep. It's too much for me to see OEL now carry all the freight back there. On just specifically.

So I'm not, I know Morgan Riley has his flaws, but you got to keep working with that guy. Okay. Take a hundred shots a day with him at the blue line. Just he's seven and a half million dollars. That guy has got to lift the level of his game up or else this team's going nowhere. He does get a bit of a pass for reasons not entirely clear. He knows it too.

He knows it. So I just want to confirm on Oliver Ekman. Yes. You don't like him? No, I like him. I just don't like him to be now. He's the guy now. He's the man. But I think lots of teams teams their number one defenseman

wouldn't be that power play quarterback i'm saying this out of my mouth is that true if you look through the teams and say draft the best power play quarterbacks in the nhl you get pretty deep before you hit oel oh and i think the contention kip is making excuse me if i'm putting words in your mouth is that he's probably not a number one power play guy on a top 16 team ideally okay maybe he's the 23rd best power play option in the league i don't know and maybe that's the issue between just i don't know i just remember the most recent was thomas caberly and mccabe the best power guys for the leafs caberly mccabe one-timer bomb i okay i'll remember those feather saucer passes from caberly to mccabe i i fall asleep to those i think of those to fall asleep you know it's wild

you know you're talking about how they they haven't tried something else or haven't or whatever we've talked in the show about them not having a number uh second line center it's crazy they haven't asked willie to do it after all the talk for a game has he had one game at center i don't think so not a single one like we're just pulling our hair if only there were some other options like do we see it for them not to even give it like a minute a week or two weeks tells you how much they don't believe they lack they lack faith and willy to go and be an up and down 200 foot guy just just give him a chance to fail and prove you're right that's why i hated what he said in preseason when he's like well you have to ask my old coach about that why i didn't play center and i was like well it's the first day of training camp like can you see if your new coach likes you

at center and guess what we didn't make it to the regular season so uh bit of a uh scheduling thing here fellas we were supposed to have andy brickley on to uh join us made it a hole in one today and said he would rather not come on in his state. So we're going to have to catch up with the Brick. I got to tell you, let me say, I respect that. He bought a couple of rounds. We were texting. Congratulations, Andy. We were texting.

I said, how many cocktails are we talking? Several. Not the record show. If you're ever a guest on our show and you make an ace you're off the hook yeah so congrats to andy and we're gonna have to figure out what to talk about oh buddy we got 20 minutes i got pages i got i could do three hours today no problem on the leafs you got some notes yeah four or five i got things okay be my guest kippy more on uh the three of us fixing the leafs after two games after the break break, Real Kipper and Bourne.

The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, as we close out our leaf edition uh we will have brian lotten in top of the hour national program as doug mclean's in transition on his way back to florida you guys heard it here first doug mclean's transition We will take text messages as well in the back half. Lots of texts today. Listen, always know

when the temperature is up in Toronto when we are getting unsolicited takes. Some guys yelling at me multiple texts like, tell Kipper you said Austin was great last night. Tell him you said that. He's on the show.

He's like, tell him, tell him. Well, anyways. Text 590-590, your questions, your opinions, whatever. Okay, we can go. There's still so much to talk about. But I want to talk a little bit about after the Columbus game, I came on our show and I said, I'm not as upset about the game as I was about kind of the response of owning a very miserable game.

Yeah. Did we get a different feel last night? To a cartoonish degree. Like, I mean, literally to a man, I i think every player took went out of their way to take individual ownership last night which is very impressive do you want to get a clip let's do matthew's clip one and see if we get a trend into these matthew's clip one please no maybe i screwed that up i think it was on me boys here i'll, I'll put them in here. All right.

All right. Do you want to go to Oliver Ackman-Larsen? I don't know. Go to the... Any of them? Go to Berube clip three on facing adversity. We always want everything. Well, we're going through some adversity right now, you know,

going to Columbus and got beat and then beat at home here tonight. You know, we've got to obviously look at the tape and, you know, for me, we're giving up too many odd-ban rushes right now and we've got to nip that in the butt. That's number one because we don't... Before that, the last two games, we were pretty good in that area.

We've got to fix that. That's a problem right now and um you know you're gonna go through tough times like this during the year and you got to find a way to dig out of it and get the guys better we all got to be better myself included we all got to be better so we'll get to the work tomorrow and and get ready for boston all right so he starts with i all got to be better, we all got to be better, myself included. And then now Matthew's clip one, Derek, if you could. Yeah, definitely.

I mean, we just, just a bad game all around. Up and down the lineup starts with me. But yeah, I mean, just a number of things that obviously we didn't do good tonight. And then all of Reckman-Larsen too, please, if you would. No, it's not good enough. Obviously coming out pretty, pretty flat in two games in a row. So I think that's got to be better.

That's on us to prepare better, make sure we're ready to go when the refs drop the puck. All right, it's a start. Did they, okay, can I hypothesize that someone within the least organization heard the show and then said like if we lose let's go out and say all the things that kipper said to say like that's literally i don't know about that they said exactly no but like immediately yeah the next game they said exactly what like we put a clip out on social about it.

It's more likely that they noticed that there wasn't enough personal responsibility. It's hilarious timing. You have to acknowledge. Oh, for sure. For sure. Hilarious timing. But I mean, those are the right things to say that I personally need to be a better part of this.

And it's just, it's just, I don't think they've been in too many positions to have to do that over their careers. No. But listen, again, I know we talked a little bit about Austin Matthews, but right now he appears to me like he hasn't got a clue how to be an NHL captain. Yeah.

So I don't know whether or not. I mean, how could he? Like he just got thrown into it, right? But he's still the same guy. It's just the same kind of thing. He's going to go out there and he's going to try to lead by scoring goals. And it's like the whole world just opened up. With that C on your jersey, I'm sorry,

but like there is a whole new world for you to look and act. And I know it's only eight games in, but I really hope that there's someone working with him now to develop into a legitimate captain one day. I don't know if it's Brendan Shanahan. I don't know if it's Brendan Shanahan. I don't know if it's Shane Doan. I don't know if you got to go find former captains. I don't know if it's Wendell Clark or Doug Gilmore,

but someone needs to be working with this guy behind the scenes on on ice, off ice, body language, comments, when to call a team meeting, all of it. Somebody's got to be helping him behind the scenes because he cannot do it by himself. He does not have those natural instincts. You know, it's tough to tell, right? Like for me, I don't know what you're saying could

be total nonsense it could be bang on kip i don't i don't have a sense why would it be nonsense well because i i mean they played eight hockey games he seems to be the same player he's been to me and i think it's ridiculous i don't want him the same well that's that to me is what are you talking about you want him to suddenly become be inauthentic and suddenly start talking like Herb Brooks in the dressing room? There has to be growth. There has to be something. Like, who was it? Jacob Truba.

Remember the struggles when the Rangers, I don't know, last year maybe, and he ripped the helmet off and he threw it and he went off the ice? Like, they went on a heater after that. And you can sit there and say all you want. And I don't care if it's throwing a helmet. I watched Matthew Nize last night take a bit of a cross-check from neighbors and go right back at him, okay?

That was more captain material last night out of a 22-year year old than I've seen out of anything out of Matthews this year. Okay. And I would have told you a year and a half ago, math, Matthew knives wouldn't do that. And I'm not talking about going out there and grabbing somebody and putting

him in a headlock. I'm talking about emotion. Why do I get emotion last night out of Matthew knives? I get no emotion out of austin matthews i i actually you're on you're on point here this is that's fair and i think it's a reasonable criticism of not just matthews not but all of the the same guys that are here tavarez was never an emotional leader either was he then they they took the sea off of him because of it well i don't know if that's why it was but but sure. Come on, JP.

Well, it can't be. What is the other reason why? Because he plays 50 minutes and scores 40 points now. He's not the same guy he was. He's not as important to the team. And then same for Marner, same for Nylander. These are not, it's not an emotional core. I agree that Nyes is, that's nice to see.

Actually, if you go through some of the underlying numbers of the Leafs, he's been as good as any of them. Maybe the best. He might be the best Leaf this season. Creating a ton. He's showing some emotion. He hits people. So if you're... No, go ahead.

I was just going to say, if you are Austin Matthews, and I mentioned this, and we were talking about this early, that, you know, you want it to be different. Like, you want something to be different. Like you want something to be different. Like we had this conversation and I just, when you're watching the captain of your team be to like, when you're quote unquote learning underneath Tavares and watching him and you see the way he is like,

I don't know. I, this is kind of how I expected it to look like Austin Matthews, but he just has the C on the chest. Right. And I don't know if that's good enough. No, I think it's, I don't know if it is kind of how i expected it to look like austin matthews but he just has the c on the chest right and i don't know if that's good enough no i think it's i don't know if it's good point there so no that is like is he ever gonna like he's talked to the media so much he has over his career he has done it so much that like all these guys every time they talk to the media they do it so much marner included matthews included devarus included they just want to say whatever the hell they want to say to get them out of there the fastest none of them talk to the media, they do it so much. Marner included, Matthews included, Tavares included. They just want to say whatever the hell they want to say to get them out of there the fastest.

None of them ever use the media. None of them ever say anything noteworthy ever. Like, they really don't. Is that going to change? Is Matthews, like, was that his quote-unquote captainly thing where he's like, it starts with me? Like, he's talking fast. He's trying to get through it like all of them are.

Why did they give him the C? Because they want to sell more jerseys. No, that's talking fast. He's trying to get through it like all of them are. Why did they give him the C? Because they want to sell more jerseys. No, that's not right. Okay. He's the face of the team. That's why. Thank you. Okay.

That comes with major responsibilities. Way more than just shooting a puck towards the net. All right. Where else do you want to go? How about the goaltender? I know we kind of lightly touched on it there for a minute, but you were not in support of Wohl going in. He didn't play great, did you think?

You know, like none of them you'd say, hey, that's his fault, but you're allowed to say it's the NHL. I want to save. Yeah, the neighbors shot. The neighbors won, yeah. Short side. The one on the PK where I know he's alone with Holloway. The guy at Holloway is right on top of him.

So is Austin. Austin. And Tana. They're both communicating. Austin's blocked a lot of shots. Now this one goes through. Right? So didn't see that one.

Yeah. So I'm not going to fall for the first one. Did you get nervous when, who fell into him? Yeah, someone poked him like nine seconds into the game, and I was like, oh, God. And he had a little bit of a shake. And he shook out his leg. He shook out his leg.

Oh, God. I mean, I'm not sure that he's feeling okay today. Maybe he did feel like he couldn't come out of the net for all the reasons we've said. Sometimes you have to play when you don't feel great. Maybe he's hurting today. I don't know. Kipper's point was good yesterday,

that you've had the best goalie in the league. You should probably play him. Yeah, I think we're going to see him on Saturday night. Let's listen to what his coach thought in clip six there, Derek. First game in a long time. I mean, you know, he made some big saves, I thought, on some of those plays. But, you know, I mean, the first one he was screened on, he couldn't see it.

You know, we let a guy stand right in front of him and screen him. We don't clear him out of the net, out of the front of the net. It's a tough one. And then, you know, the second goal, the guy's right on the doorstep all alone on the PK. He did make a couple good saves. I would have saved him for Winnipeg. If he has the game he had last night against Winnipeg on the road against the hottest team in hockey,

there's a little bit more forgiveness there. It actually kind of reminds me of him trying to work his way back from injury last season. Remember he came in and got filled in by Boston a couple times? I think back-to-back Saturdays or something. And it just never kind of got back. It was a playoff where he was remarkable when he was in. We're going to see Saturday night two teams.

It could be 0-0 going into the third. Oh, you think so? These are two not bad teams who are struggling. Struggling. Struggling. You know what you do? You retreat in your own. I don't care what happens. of the third oh you think so oh yeah not bad team you got who are struggling struggling struggling you know what you do you retreat in your own i don't care what happens past the red line in our own zone you heard it here from beth 365 under five five back and don't you dare get beat to the net i think it's going to be a real interesting test of how this team responds to Craig Berube. Well, we kind of saw how they responded yesterday.

Yeah. Not a great first sign. There's going to be more information coming our way. They lose Saturday, they're under 500, and we all go crazy. By the way, this Atlantic division may not be that great. Yeah, listen, the nice part about this kind of rocky start is every other team's scuffling, too,

other than the Panthers, who we all think will probably win that division that what was the last time the leafs were out of a playoff spot i don't know but that besides waking up today that was something i did not in the playoffs right now that is something i did want to add is that the leafs look like a team who think they can turn it on right like they go down a few goals they look like they think they can do it whenever they want to do it. And that leads to losing games like this, which leads to a tough first round opponent. Playoffs.

They need to mature at some point and play good against bad teams, but they just can't do it. We shall see if that starts, JB, as early as Saturday night, hockey night in Canada. Toronto Maple Leafs, Boston Bruins. Good thing we didn't have Brickley on.

Holy smokes, boys. Oh, do we have time? Quickly, Derek,ins. Good thing we didn't have Brickley on. Holy smokes, boys. Oh, do we have time? Quickly, Derek, how much time do we have? Fit it in. Plymouth Golf Course, my home course, 20 miles south of Boston. Donald Ross, 15th hole, 190 yards, five rescue, hole in one, number four. Wow. Number four.

Holy. Brian Lott next. When we return, we go national on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Do not go away. Bye.