Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Boos for the Blue & White

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the news that Pierre Dorion is out as GM in Ottawa after complications in the Evgenii Dadonov trade. Then, on the Leafs' 4-1 loss to the Kings last night, Keefe turning to a Matthews/Marner/Nylander combo in the third, Mitch Marner's slow start, Klingberg being moved off PP1 and the Leafs getting booed on home ice. Mike Futa joins the conversation (34:56) and weighs in on the Leafs' effort last night, diminishing returns from the offseason additions, chemistry concerns and Keefe's lineup deployment. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

We welcome you into the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. We're on Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. As always, you can download our podcast wherever you want to go. Spotify, Sammy, iTunes. Apple Podcast, Kippy. There you go. There, too. And remember, always text us at 590 590

if you've got something positive to say or just useful or not useful or not positive text us whatever send us anyway tons to get into in the next two hours including pierreian, fired after a first-round draft pick was lost due to a trade that happened two years ago with Vegas. That was Dandenov to Vegas. Apparently, a no-trade list was not included in that trade that buggered up everything after that, including a trade from Vegas to Anaheim, where Anaheim was supposedly on that list.

Factor in that the Leafs lay an egg on home ice against the LA Kings, and man, oh man, I love a day like today because the show writes itself. The province of Ontario has it coming today, let me tell you. Alright, let's get into it quickly a little bit because this is the major story of the day that General Manager Pierre Dorian has been

relieved of his duties, fired. I think the technical term we heard out of owner Michael Hanlauer. Resigned. What does it take to get fired again did i not bring up a good point yes nobody gets fired everybody resigns but but before we get into that okay just your initial thoughts on the nhl coming down hard with a hammer on a first-round pick that the Senators will lose either this year, in 2024, 25, or 26.

It's their choice. My first thoughts, Kip, are that's a massive punishment. I mean, that is a first-rounder to a rebuilding Sens team looking for a new bar, new owner, trying to turn things around. That's a massive punishment. And not even like they're rebuilding but the other side of that is they're wanting to be good soon and when you're not drafting guys you're using that at trade deadlines and in the off seasons to acquire

better players yeah my other takeaway is that the league is better when you have personalities in it or at least people who will say the way they really feel. And I watched that whole Michael Andlauer presser with you, and he said some stuff. He is not happy. And I don't think we've heard the last of this from Andlauer, from the Sens, from the NHL. Yeah, I think we have.

There's nowhere to go,b on this story it's it's almost as if uh remember the whole kyle dubas fiasco with brendan shanahan yes the one thing that i i give credit for is when you are forthcoming and you kind of lay it all out there there's no follow-ups there's no follow-ups there's nowhere to go after that everybody kind of lay it all out there. There's no follow-ups. There's no follow-ups. There's nowhere to go after that. Everybody kind of knows what happened. And I think we know what happened here with the Ottawa Senators and Pierre Dorian. We do. And he and Ann Lauer said as much.

However. He made a trade. And the dum-dum didn't include Danunov's no trade list. Right. Yeah. And to me though, you know, and Lauer says,

you know, I don't know why it, I wasn't informed of this. I don't know why it took 18 months. I don't know why I inherited this. His point was it doesn't need to take 18 months. And he kind of suggested, is it possible that they withheld this information because it would have

affected the franchise value and they're trying to drum up as much money as possible for the seller? Yes. Yes. You didn't have to put a question mark after that statement. Just say it. Yes. Does he not have some right to be pissed at the league?

Absolutely. But tough beeswax. Well, you know what, though? when kovalchuk signed his 17 year deal 17 year deal with the new jersey devils a one dollar aav on that contract the last few years they find them three million dollars a first and yada yada and then time passed and people stopped looking and they reapplied to have the it lessened. Then they cut the fine in half and they didn't take the first away. And if that happened to Ann Lauer, would you be surprised? No, I would not.

They would love to do this guy a favor. He just spent a billion dollars. Yeah, I don't get the sense after a year and a half, two years, that they will go do the same thing. No. And Ann Lauer, a bit of a rookie compared to Lou Laborello at the time. Ann Lauer just laid it out there today. Right. But I get it.

I get Gary. I mean, I don't want you knowing about it. The team's for sale. You know what's going to happen when you have a first rounder out there floating around, whether or not you're going to get it or not you say listen if you're going to take a first rounder away from me maybe I'll

chop the price to two I was going to go one but 50 right but really it can affect your odds of making playoffs in a tight division and gate revenue how much is a first round pick worth? Dude, that is like a profound question that someone should look into.

What is the monetary value of a first? What's Austin Matthews been worth to the Leafs? A lot. Well, sure. And a prime sports drink. He's worth a lot as well. And a new deal. Making money.

But it's a fascinating one to me, and it's hard to not come to that conclusion about some information not being shared at some point. Yeah. So Steve Stales comes in, and come on, who really thought Pierre Dorian was going to hold on to this job? Yeah, I did not. Nobody.

No, no. Here's another one, too. I'm winning over Pierre Dorian. Pierre Dorian was very loyal. Yeah. Here's another one too. I'm thinking about Pierre Dorian. Pierre Dorian was very loyal. He is very. They were not loyal to Pierre Dorian. He had the option of getting rid of Pierre Dorian the moment he got the team, and he didn't.

And he didn't want to do this today. He did not want to do this. He didn't want to fire Dorian today. No, no. You made the decision to keep him when you took over the team. And there's only one conceivable reason why he did that. Because you just spent a billion dollars and you don't need to go spend another $2 million on a GM today. Pay for that guy to watch.

Now pay this guy to do the job he was just doing. Exactly. Yeah. And my understanding is Pierre has another year on his deal. So there was no hurry to add more money to a team that you bought that lost in the neighborhood of $37 to $40 million last year. Yeah. You're trying to run an asset around.

No, again, I don't know if you kind of read the tea leaves on Steyos talking about being the interim and searching for a new GM. They're not going to be in a hurry to go sign a GM tomorrow. I think someone asked Steve Steyos about the search for a GM. He was like let me just look at my shirt here. Am I not good enough? Number one is who's really out there and number two is again how

quickly do you want to sign someone to 1.5 or 2 million dollars to do a job that Pierre Dorian is still getting paid for moving forward so i i don't think i i think pierre dorian the writing was on the wall he's going to lose his job at some point to stayos or somebody else but they just didn't want to do it this early so i mean peter shirelli's name is all over Twitter with zero confirmations.

I wonder if eventually that would be, he's an Ottawa guy. He's been a GM. Those are the only two things I have as qualifications. He's in St. Louis right now. He's somewhere, isn't he? I don't know. I feel like he's somewhere. He's desperate enough.

He'd take it for probably a mil, one, two. You could talk him. Shudder how cheap I'd do it for. Yeah. And if I'm Steve Stahels, I can't get out of that general manager's chair fast enough. Why? Why?

Well, there's only 32, Kip. He's never been in one. Why would he not want it? Because I got one of 32 potential presidents of hockey ops. That's why. I don't need both. I don't need GM. That guy is a bullet taker. That's why. I don't need both. I don't need GM. That guy is a bullet taker.

That's what you need. You need someone to. This is a new evolution of roles. The president is the guy behind the GM now. The prestigious general manager's title is over if you've got a president of hockey ops above you. Yeah. And Steve Stahels needs to keep that job.

He'd be nuts to go and take the general manager's job. Wow. So he's not doing the Kyle Dubas after an extensive search? I wouldn't have found myself. Yeah, Peter Trelli is the vice. He would if he'd had the seven-year deal at, what, $6 million, $5.5 million, $6 million. What did he do? He was at $45 million.

Yeah, something like that. Vice President of Hockey Operations for the St. Louis Blues, Peter Shirely. Okay. Did we get any Ann Lauer clips? Do we want to play him in this block? I mean, do you want to save him for the second block? I have a couple, but why don't we talk about the Leafs here,

and then we can talk about the Sens more. Or do you want to avoid the Leafs? No, we're going to pick it up in the National Hour as well. Because I think Jason York, who's from Ottawa and has been our resident correspondent out of Ottawa, will join us in the next hour.

Alright. How long have we done this show now? A little over two years? We're into year three, pal. I'm going to throw this out to both of you. Was that one of the worst efforts we've seen since our show came about from the Toronto Maple Leafs

last night? The fact that I need to really consider worse ones tells you what I thought of it because it's in that class for sure. It's not good. I'm racking my brain for a worse one. And on television, I'm having a hard time coming up with one. I'm sure there was a good. I'm racking my brain for a worse one. And I'm on television. I'm having a hard time coming up with one.

I'm sure there was a few. I thought maybe they lost to the Habs handily a couple times. That's pretty gross. It's in the class. It's in. Okay. Anaheim game last year, yeah. They lost in overtime.

Yeah. They got a point in that one. It's right up there. Yeah. Now, can we kind of pull back off of it a little bit 12-day road trip three one and one the adjustment to go back home or no not really why do you want i mean i don't know i'm just trying to be a little positive around here well i know that's your forte you're constantly a shining beacon of hope.

But, you know, the day I was pretty bleak. God, tell us how you really feel about me. But it was bad. So can you name a good player? Who'd you like last? No. No. I literally can't name one player on the leaf so i was like good showing nice is okay

the bar scored he shot it right into the net he shot it under the bar yeah that was nice but yeah i mean lilligren bails on a hit going back for a puck that they score on klingberg was an atrocity at times last night you know we'll get deeper into that but you know there there it was just the elite players were nowhere to be found willie willie was involved yeah stuff all right let's go to a what you got a comment well i just gonna ask you what did you like the least okay i'll tell you what i like the least after we hear from Sheldon Cliff, key fun clip one on what he needed more of last night. I mean, we need everybody, even when our top guys are gone, you need everybody.

You know, we saw the importance of that when we were on the road and got some good performances from different people. Nyes and Domi, you know, score us a huge goal or huge goals to come back and get us points in Tampa. And, you know, that same line with Kampf gets a huge goal for us with Giordano in Nashville. You need those kind of performances for sure. Today, nobody had it. Nobody. Not a soul. So we don't buy into the fatigue?

No? I believe that it's real, but I also believe you're aware of it as an NHL team and you're at home and that's part of your job is to battle through those nights. Okay, I want to get... Clip six? Yeah, clip six, Sheldon Keefe on tired. It can be part of it, but it's the NHL. Every team's going to go through stuff like this.

You've got to push through it. You've got to find a way. So there's no excuses tonight. You've got to find a way. There's things that we could have done better. Sometimes you really have your A game. Everything's clicking. Sometimes you've got lots of energy, but you're not sharp with the puck,

and you've got to adapt and adjust your game. Sometimes you don't have energy, so you need to be better in different ways your special teams need to carry find a way don't find an excuse find a way don't find an excuse is a good line yeah really good the thing that probably bothered me most last night was the feeling and the philosophy that we're still going to try to outscore our mistakes. I got pissed off the most watching him load up Nylander, Marner, and Matthews. Start of the third or end of the second? No, start of the third.

And I just think it's a horrible message to 17 other guys that says, we're just going to put these guys together and they're going to just fix us. Yeah. And we're going to come back and win and everybody's going to say, hey, way to not give up and way to go. And yeah, we found a way and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. To me, first of all, like the least of his worries going into the third period was try to find three goals

to tie the game up. Okay. Sheldon, no, no. Totally agree. Your number one priority to start that third period was to put three guys on the ice who could compete who could fight for a puck and win a battle you start there and if it means even sitting asses down you do it but that was loading up was the least of your issues or worries yeah typically i find with sheldon

and this sounds like a silly thing to say but he tries to win every game he's in of course you should that's a great thing but i would think he's been around this leafs team long enough and the postseason long enough in the nhl to recognize that it's not about earning every regular season point you can necessarily it's about conditioning your team for playoffs that the people who work get rewarded and we're a team that is based on merit and not just on potential and last night you're right giving more time and better players to those guys who were dogs by and large did not seem like the right answer when it should have been a night sammy i think you were saying that maybe you sit one of them down yeah it felt like the opposite to me where it's like you put one of them on the fourth line or something or

like you can send a message in a game where you're coming off the road trip he's talking about how fatigue's not a factor it's you're gonna lose that game you're going to that third period the way they've been playing it's pretty obvious that they were not coming back in that. It seemed like a pretty good chance to send a message to somebody. I don't know who necessarily, but it could have been a spot for that. I just want to go back to your point. Look what Talkett did last night. What did he do?

He sat JT Miller on the bench for part of the second period. He's kind of a good example because we do give Tuckett a ton of credit for the attention to the details, and you're just telling me that Sheldon's more of a big-picture guy, find a way to win. Well, he should be. And, you know, is he not spending enough time on the details, the smaller stuff?

No, I don't think that's my takeaway. My takeaway is that he's not zooming out to the big picture enough here. Like, Dad, it shouldn't have been about winning one night last night, but, you know, sending a message for the season. So the hard conversation is what do we make? Matthew's no good last night. Like, didn't even see him. But what do we make him our understart at this point?

Yeah, no good. No good. But it's's just it's curious because he is good yeah and so what do we got going on here i don't know it's uh it's not himself it's not himself and i i think over the course you know how i feel like he is the real engine of the team right and so when if that engine's not going then the 34 engines not can't run without the 16 engine can it well i i mean i think it can kip but your your case is stronger right now because marner isn't going and matthews has looked ineffective you know all of a sudden he has one goal in his last six games you know you know you come off two hat tricks to start the year and it's a bit of a different vibe here so yeah it's it's curious because sam and i were saying like where there haven't even been moments where you're like oh that's the marner spin around on a rush where he finds a trailer for a tap in or like that

electric play so boy there's i'm'm surprised the Leafs are 5-3-1 considering the start of a lot of the team. It could be a lot worse if maybe Joseph Wall didn't get shot out of a cannon. But there seems to be some issues all over the ice, including power play, Klingberg, Morgan Riley. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Klingberg, I think, dropping off his number one PP.

Power play was like our five-on-five play. It was, yeah, a night like today where you don't have it, you're sort of relying on the power play to be able to spark you and get some positive momentum for the group. Like you kind of saw it in the third. The power play scores in our next few shifts, all of a sudden you have some lags. And it just wasn't happening for us on the first few power plays.

So just changing the mix a bit. Changing the mix a bit with Klingberg off power play one well he's not gonna do that right now what you know the idea when you sign a guy like klingberg for four million is that you are you're getting the year where kevin shattenkirk goes to tampa bay and does really well before he goes to get another contract or you know there's a number of examples where guys go you know tony d'kirk goes to Tampa Bay and does really well before he goes to get another contract. Or, you know, there's a number of examples where guys go, you know, Tony D'Angelo goes to Carolina, has one good year, you pay him cheap,

and then he goes and makes money somewhere else. You're supposed to be getting that from Klingberg this year. If he's not on the power play and he's on your third pair with William Legasin and he's turning pucks over and giving up odd man rushes on that third pair, making four million,

this becomes a problem they have to address quickly yeah marner talked a little bit about uh not shooting the puck enough himself marner's not yeah or cleanberg no marner on the power player you know in general, I guess. But is that the sense, too, that he's not making the right selections like he used to? Besides Klimberg, Marner, Matthews. I'm watching this thing, and it's not flowing. I have that clip if you want to hear it. It didn't show us there, Derek. I have that clip if you want to if you want to hear from in shows there Derek Marner on wanting to be

more Marner on wanting more threatening as a shooter sorry maybe we don't have it my bad you know I think I need to you know be more of a threat of a shooter you know be a little more so it shooter, be a little more exceptional in those areas so it opens up Boston a little more, I'd say.

Just got to have trust in our game. When we're going well, we're getting on the forecheck, we're stripping pucks, and we've had moments of that throughout the season, but just not enough. We know we've got to be better, and we will be better. He has been notoriously a slow starter has he not i think last year he had a slow start i don't remember if this has been typical but and this is real slow the the one thing that might be different there is just you know they've been

in a one three one typically with riley at the top and they're kind of more of like a little two three spread now like the idea was that marner was going to get more touches low, and I haven't really seen that play out. And I wonder if some of this is Boucher's system on the power play, you know, maybe something that they want to take a look at. In a little over 10 minutes, we're going to have Mike Futa, of course, former NHL executive, and was around for a couple of Stanley Cups against the team that the Leafs saw last night in the LA Kings.

And we'll get his thoughts on matching up against an LA King hockey club which kind of told you that I did not like the Leaf matchup against their three center men last night and they were horses led by I think Philip Deneau yeah no I'm a little disappointing for you, don't you think? Was it the Leafs couldn't hang? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, LA is coming into a good team's building and brought great energy, skated. You know, they have a lot of guys who shoot it.

We talked about they have good size, and Kaliev shoots it, and Kempe shoots it, and Doughty can. They got a lot of guys who can play. Trevor Moore. Was he arguably one of the best players on the ice? He was prime Pavel Bure last night. He was unbelievable.

Oh, my God. Yeah. But that just speaks to no one skating last night. I just got to piss off Leaf fans, eh? When you just see a guy like that that you couldn't find to play like that. Was he the Jack Campbell trade or the Muzzin trade? Muzzin is my... I don't remember.

I can look it up. I bet you asked. But no, it does hurt a little bit. Because I liked him as a Leaf. He was one of their homegrown guys. And they traded him for, I guess, you can talk about Jack Campbell's tenure here. But, you know,

probably would like to have Trevor Moore back. Yeah, in retrospect. Yeah, just move on. Campbell was fine, you know, for a lot of the time here, but didn't get the job done. You know, I didn't mind seeing Domi try and fight someone when they're down 3-0. You know, that was a little bit of a bright spot.

At least someone was frustrated. That was nice. Yeah, and people really have an issue with Ryan Reeves. I have an issue with him letting his guy sneak down the back door and tap one in. Yeah. So, you know, he's not playing well enough to be on the ice. Played seven and a half minutes last night.

Yeah. And then I look at him trying to run Drew Dowdy, and at least that's something for me. Yeah. Yeah, I mean. Just don't play him seven. Play him two. Or just let him sit on the bench until something,

until you need to send a message out there. Give him one shot at running at Drew Dowdy and get him off the ice. But nobody says he has to play eight or nine minutes. It's a tough spot. You know, like you hate to dress a guy you can't use, you know? Drew Dowdy and get him off the ice. But nobody says he has to play eight or nine minutes. It's a tough spot. You know, like you hate to dress a guy you can't use, you know? Yeah. Well, yeah, they're going to have to figure that out. Yeah.

But it doesn't, so far, the grit or the snot or whatever you want to call it just hasn't ripped through the lineup for the first 10 games. No, it has not. And isn't that something that last night you're in that game and it's kind of a dud, you're down 2-0 on home ice, the crowd's quiet. No energy. No energy.

Isn't that like the perfect spot for Ryan Reeves to do a Ryan Reeves thing? Well, just chat somebody up. Just chat with Andreas Englund. Yeah. I'm coming after you, you, you. What are you all going to do about it? Steal a page out of Evander Kane at the outdoor game. Yeah.

Just give the crowd a reason to be like, hey, I know why I paid 300 bucks to sit in the lower bowl tonight maybe to see somebody do something passionate on the ice do we want to hear someone besides your own teammates did you see that segment on tv where he's hiding in the it's fine it's great but like nobody gives a crap about that stuff if you don't scare people on the ice. Correct. I am the target audience. Tavares is unbelievable. He, like, genuinely timed it well, scared him. Tavares, like, didn't flinch.

And he's like, oh, you scared the hell out of me. It's like that's the most emoting you're going to get out of the captain. So speaking of the crowd last night, hot conversation, getting booed after the road trip, them coming back, the way they played what are your thoughts kippy well there was that one end of the period shift where they were in their own zone for three days 65 seconds yeah that was i can't i i get it that is a horrific two and a half minutes i don't even know did la even get any chance in that they just kind of passed it around the outside we thought it was three on three yeah honestly

tired leafs just like crowded to the middle the la passed it around the boo might have been just generally this sucks when have you when is the last time you're watching a hockey game and you heard a bronx cheer for them clearing the puck they got into the center five two and one at the time five two and one but it's a bit of a facade yeah i mean i i'm you're giving the fans a lot of credit that yeah i am giving them more credit for we've seen this before, and 100 points, 112 points will be nice, but if you guys lay an egg, like, we're not surprised. Yeah. We're not getting fooled by 82 games anymore. Yeah.

Quick detour on that. You know, kind of similar topic, but talking about the Stars not scoring and being frustrating. Do you think contracts are related in the slightest bit? Like, well, Marner, you know, if Marner was having a great year,

you'd be telling me that they're going to have to pay him $14 million at the end of the year. If Willie, you know, Willie just got paid. Matthews just got paid. I got news. Willie hasn't got paid yet. I got news for you. They're going to get paid.

They could suck again tomorrow night against Boston. They're going to get paid. Okay, so you don't think any of that is playing out in anyone's head? Matthews is comfy? No, no, no. Their numbers are too strong. They will have better than most stars numbers.

And they're going to get paid. Yeah, part of that is putting them out there when they're playing like dogs. Stacking them up. Well, that's, you know how I feel about the cookie. They would have been better off getting shut out. 100%. Than Tavares scoring that goal on the power play. Yeah. It's like

you guys dunk five on five and then you just wait for on the power play. It's like, you guys stunk five on five, and then you just wait for a power play goal. The biggest question was just, like, who would you reward? You know, like, if it was like, boy, Gregor and Domi and whoever are flying, like, let's get them out there. There just wasn't anyone. Yeah, there wasn't one line that was like, wow, they are sustaining pressure tonight.

Yeah. So we can maybe let them go out there. There was no one to reward. It was a quick thing that I like, wow, they're sustaining pressure tonight. Yeah. So we can maybe let them go out there. There was no one to reward. There was a quick thing that I noticed, and they mentioned on the broadcast, that Todd McClellan, after Domi just buries Fiala with the cross check, and he slashed, and he's jawing the whole bench,

put out his fourth line on the power play. Are you surprised by that? After how that went went they were up three zip i was surprised that he did that i didn't notice that yeah good catch yeah uh i they're they're a little deeper and i think they do run a little bit more on a rotation um no i'm not i'm not that shocked they are deeper deeper. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it became clear last night anyway. You know, when things aren't going great,

you need some people to step up. And so we didn't get it from their heavies. You know, I talked a little bit about their decor last night. Do you think John Klingberg finishes the year as a Maple Leaf? Yeah, I do. You do. Yeah, there's nowhere for him to go. Yeah, you don't think they can tape a pick to him or something?

Nine games in, I'm already theorizing. They did that. Anaheim did that last March. And Minnesota, I don't think, fell in love with him. I got to tell you, I'm a big Bradtree living guy, but it's real tough to look at this offseason and go, great, you know, so far. Well, so far. Yeah, so far.

And I think there's time for them to turn it around. I think Klingberg is what we see. At times he can look like he, once upon a time, was a very good player and has some upside on maybe shooting a puck in the offensive zone but he can't he can't defend it's not even defending like last night there's a play so the Leafs are in the ozone it comes down Lilligren's wall on the right hand side up to the hash marks he pinches down keeps it in they keep possession goes around to the far left corner and klingberg tries to pinch down into the corner to keep it in chips by him they go two on one like you last year used to be

like justin hall just play defense we just want you to defend don't ever go down the walls you hate to tell a guy like klingberg to play that way but he probably has a much better better year if he just stays on the blue and makes plays from there. In his mind, he still thinks he can go get that $64 million contract that he turned down in Dallas. I'm telling you. He does the math every

day how much he's lost and how many points he may need to try to make some of it back. Whoever offered that should be retroactively fired. I'm shocked the Leafs gave him 4.1. Just, for me, mind-boggling. You want to come to Toronto? You want to get attention?

You want to play with Matthews and Marner? Here's $1.52 million on a one-year deal and work yourself back up. I'll give you a top power play to start, and you'll get your money from either us or somebody else next year. Somebody else. Last quick one before we go. Did last night shake you at all in your thoughts about this team? Or is it just one-off?

We've kind of seen this movie before a little bit. There's just way too much talent to ever think that they're in jeopardy of uh of losing a a playoff spot how's that okay right i don't know can they come in the can they win the east on paper they certainly look that way at the beginning of the season but you're asking me are they going to be in the mix for a playoff spot? Like, this team's way too talented. Good. And what about Joe Wall? Any different thoughts there?

Feel the same way about him? Did he do anything to him? Yeah, he wasn't brilliant or first star. That's what you needed to be, first star of the game last night for the Leafs to have a chance. Yeah. But I don't think he embarrassed himself or set himself back he certainly didn't like cement the number one job or anything are you going back to him in boston

yeah that's a that's a good question that i was going to throw you guys first i i believe i believe that he'll go to samson off i do too give him the chance you know just like he's he was your starter in playoffs last year. You're not even 10 games in. You're about to be 10. Yeah, and for me, it's not even so much a reflection on Samsonov getting the start. It's got to protect Joseph Wall in this. Running him out there.

And is this their only visit in Boston too, or they've got another one, Sammy? I think they play two in Toronto against Boston this year. And this is the only visit in Boston? I think so. Because he's an area guy there too, right? Yeah. So, you know, it's just too early for me to throw him in that. Yeah.

It would be nice if there was another game in February or March in Boston that you could say if the tea leaves present themselves. This is the only game in Boston. Yeah. If there was a game later on, I'd maybe consider it, but not now

and not coming off a game where you've got some major issues in front of your goalie. Do you want to hear Sheldon Keefe's thoughts on Joe Wall? Yes. Or do you want a break? Let's hit the break. Okay, we're going to hit a break, according to my producer, Sammy,

and then we'll come back with Mike Futa to tell us more on what he saw last night out of the Toronto Maple Leafs and the LA Kings. Back after these words. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL, the and nfl the jd bunk is podcast subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Boren Show. I'm Nick Kiprios. Justin Boren. Sammy McKee.

Derek Brandeo. General Nick. And soon, Mike Futa. Yeah. Friend of the show. Do we have him? We got him. Is he centered?

Does he look pretty for our Zoom? There he is. Futes, what's going on? I don't know if you know it, but this season, the three of us were a big deal. I know. I know. I'm a regular watcher and listener. I can't believe what a big deal Sammy's become.

He's getting that mop cut tomorrow. I got to grease the door to get his head through it. He's an absolute rock star. He is. This is my nightmare. You might be the perfect guy, you know, spending a lot of time

with the LA Kings, winning championships with a lot of players still there from your time. Just give us your thoughts of last night. A lot on the Leafs coming off a road trip and just not having their stuff. But what did you see? Well, I was actually there, Kipper, and it was a tough one to watch. I mean, I thought the Leafs had started to come.

And I mean, obviously coming off, I've heard the whole thing about long road trip but I thought it was more about what the Kings brought to the table and and what a complete effort they were in it and again it starts on the back end there and it just seems when you look at the Kings it just fits like they've got such a plethora of right shot D I mean drew I thought was excellent last night but maddie roy brings a defensive element uh spence has got some great offensive upside and it's just when he looks at your pairs you feel good about it and on the counterbalance and that's plus they've got brant clark who's probably could be playing in their top four right now that's still in the

minors and it's he's ready to come up too i talked to a big talk with blakey about their depth and the ability to like i was shocked when they moved on from sean dersey um you know they traded sean walker and these guys are having great effects on the place they've gone and it's a really it's credit to the job that i mean part of the guys i was still there but mark and eddie and the staff for a general manager when you can have that many assets and then you can afford to put packages together like they did with Winnipeg, where you're giving up good players. You're giving up guys you don't want to give up.

Alex Ayafoll is a great player. Gabe Velarde, before he was injured, had a chance to have a great season. And we aren't for it on defense, but it just doesn't look coherent on the back end. And I know it's a work in progress on the Leafs side of things, but it wasn't a good look last night. the kings just kept coming in waves and waves and i mean their fourth line seemed to play with an identity and i mean when you get a team like that like we talked about i've used heard the term dogs being used lately and not in a negative term just like i heard justin wills use it's just scrappy guys guys that really compete hard and uh I felt with some of the additions that they made that they were going to be adding

some more dog to their lineup and uh for whatever reason it's just not there right now like Max seemed to be coming along last night um Max looked out of sorts um I mean there was really no tough guy in the other team so Reeves kind of looked not sure what he was supposed to be doing and and uh Bertuzzi was still struggling as well. So it wasn't a good look on anybody from start to finish. And the big boys haven't got it going. And the chemistry just seems to be off. And I mean, and until it's early, and I know it's,

but we say the regular season doesn't matter, but efforts like that, that looked like a team that was really well-constructed from top to bottom that could look like they could do some damage in the playoffs. I think they're a little concerned about their goal-turning, but that was a thorough beatdown. It makes a really good point. It's like an English lesson, like why English is tough to learn, because the Leafs had a bunch of dogs last night,

but the Kings had a bunch of dogs. It's like how you say it. I mean, it's like an embarrassed, like bumping for all of his negatives he brought that kind of there was chemistry on that top line with him and he brought it like sometimes i don't like to dive in and flop in everywhere but he brought a bit of that that grit and snarl and uh and and it's not that those guys don't have it and i go back to a guy like max if you're gonna bring max max really had two his last two years have been exceptional with the rangers in dallas and that's like he wasn't really much with

us in carolina because we didn't play him with anybody you can't bring in a guy like that and think he's going to be your checker right uh and you've got to play him with skilled players to get him comfortable and uh and he's got to be on a power play unit to be comfortable or he looks at his swords and that's why he had a success with the rangers in dallas and that's that's what he's got to be on a power play unit to be comfortable or he looks out of sorts and that's why he had a success with the ranges in dallas and that's that's what he's going to need to have to have that success and i'm sure some of these guys they caught brought in on one-year deals when you're looking like the wall that you're coming into shangri-la you're going to be playing with the best teams you're going to be putting up huge

points in your contract season and all of a sudden you're just seeing like vanilla ice cream you probably start squeezing your sticks a little bit yeah no doubt about that you know and so that's one thing so the Leafs aren't really measuring themselves against the league they're measuring themselves against the best teams they're trying to be a Stanley Cup team and so they had a good showing against Dallas and Tampa Bay they come up against the Kings and you see that measuring stick where do they not measure up in terms of a team with cup aspirations I just think the back end um right now for me I mean I think I couldn't put it on wall last night I thought they were bad break the first one you know Gio just tries to make a play and it's a bad bounce over his shoulder and stuff like that so I wouldn't I wouldn't so much I

wouldn't start pushing the panic button on wall but. But again, I just think on the back end, that's got to have a different look to it altogether. And it's a copycat league, Borny and Kipper, but you think about the teams that have won and the blue, like you look at Vegas's blue line last year, like you can afford to lose somebody and you don't, it's not chaos. It's not like when the Leafs used to lose Muzzin it was like oh my god fire what's going to happen we lost Muzz and I thought last year

they seem to have a little bit more depth again it's just right now the parents I mean everybody's got a little bit older um it doesn't mean that they're not competitive or going to have great years but it's tough it's it's a tough look back there and again i think with the addition of um who's the right shot number three there he's he's got a clingy he's frustrating for me because and sometimes when a guy skates that smooth and looks effortless but when you look effortless it's but inside of your skating it kind of like I used to have that thing because I didn't like the fact that Nylander didn't sweat. Didn't mean he wasn't working. I mean, last night I thought he was outstanding again.

I mean, he was probably one of the few players that was flying out there. But I just think Klingberg's got to put a lot more intensity and battle into his game. That's the only time I've seen him be kind of effective all the time and Bradwood Treleving would have seen it a lot was he played with some snarl against the Calgary Flames I know he really seemed to get into it with Tuchuk a lot in that playoff series and since then I haven't seen an urgency or a snarl to his game whatsoever and I'm not talking about a fighter or anything but you've got to play with a little bit more of a chip in your shoulder and particularly I mean he's making a lot of money this year.

That's a big cap hit for a guy that's kind of going to be in and out with his effort. We're talking to Mike Futa, NHL executive, Sportsnet hockey analyst. Futa, you've put a lot of lines together over your career, either at the junior level or, you know, your input at the pro level here. Everything was pointed to the direction that Bert bertuzzi matthews and marner could be uh not only a good line but maybe one of the best in the league what have you seen or not seen up until this point on why this thing hasn't even remotely clicked well i think because the two big guys aren't at the level of chemistry that they're normally at and when they are i think because the two big guys aren't at the level of chemistry that they're normally at

and when they are i think it's easier to slot another player and then obviously you got a guy with bertuzzi that whoever somebody called him i think an unmade bet or whatever else he's he's uh he just looks but he's he's exactly what you think should fit there but until it happens i always use the analogy that we when we brought in ilia kovalchuk we thought because we kept putting it on the wall we did you know we lost marion gabrick and we thought i know he's getting older but we're gonna get where we're gonna get 35 we're gonna get 40 out of them he's got two different looks because he's either gonna fit with anje kopitar or he's gonna fit with jeff carter and they're both two different players so there's gonna be chemistry and and not no knocking ko COVID he couldn't fit with either one of them it was an absolute

disaster and uh and then the coach kind of falls out in love with him and starts playing him you know on a line with like Trevor Lewis and and guys that are noted checkers and stuff like that and Dwight Kings of the world and all of a sudden you've got a you've got a mess so I think there's going to take some patience on the like I know trees is impatient spot I think Kiefer sometimes he gets the Otsi cup out a little early when things aren't going and starts just chucking out lines after, after, after. But I think with this group, you've got to find some way to get lines consistent, whether it's nice gets his chance up there.

Cause he looks like he can fit with anybody. I was surprised how big he is in person and just get some consistency with the lines and stick with it, even though there might be some painful times, because I know it was it was it's unbelievable for players when you're really fighting to get that chemistry and you seem to be lined up with a different guy every night. But in fairness to on the team, you've got to. You've got to bring that like the old the knock on the old leafs, and this group's supposed to keep learning and keep developing, getting better, not making the same mistakes, is that they don't start on time, right? And they're supposedly over that, and then I go to a game last night,

and they still haven't started. So it's just one of those things that they've got to, old excuses can't renew their heads again. They've got to get these things down because, and I obviously think this is a playoff team, I think they can't just rely on scoring goals, they've got to play a little bit more thorough on the back end and they'll get

there, but I think there has to be more urgency that you can't just say it's all about what we do in the playoffs or somebody that nobody expected to be there might be ahead of you and you might be on the outside looking in if you take too many nights off like last night. Just a last quick one for me if you want to get your thoughts on how often that happens where a coach isn't playing a guy that the way that you saw him when you acquired him how often does that happen to managers when you're like you didn't bring him in to be that

and it just doesn't work because of a disconnect between the front office and the coach well it's it's the worst feeling ever and it goes back to that that billy uh what is it the billy bean where he is it but he says that he keeps playing him in the one position and so you just you remove out the block and just play him where you want but for us i remember that first exhibition game as we had spent the whole summer recruiting kovalchuk he actually got offered more money to go to go to vegas which would have been another story altogether with their cap situation but he comes to us with the thoughts that he was going to be with Angie Kopitar or or Jeff Carter and for sure our first exhibition game John Stevens posts a lineup God bless John Stevens he's got three cups but he hasn't planned on the line with Dwight King and Trevor Lewis.

And we almost croaked. I've never seen Blake run so fast down to the dressing room. You can give up on him after two weeks of the season, but we've just played five exhibition games and you've already gassed them. So that's probably the best thought I've had

is obviously you do a lot of due diligence and that's why communication is so good when you have a coach that uh understands that even if you're trying to trade a player sometimes you have to put a player and you got to put him in places so he can succeed so you have some pieces you can sell and that's the other thing is some of these teams i look at it there's not a lot of currency to get your team better right right? You kind of nize us up and he looks great. We still don't know. Robertson's never really got the shine that we thought we were getting out of him. I think it was Niemler or whatever got broken in half at training camp, I think.

And you've got to have some players to improve, like to be able to give teams and offer other teams to improve on that back end. And the salary cap situation, it's tough. and the salary cap situation it's tough and the last thing is it's i've the really thing that's really chewing at me because i even look at the edmonton oilers and their back end and thank god they picked up picked up a echo amount of nashville but just because you have a guy that's your number one defenseman doesn't mean you have to pay him like he's a number one defenseman and i go back to somebody because i love darnel nurse but i don't love darnel nurse making 9.5 million because you can't make your team better and fill out those holes in the back end if someone's cap hit is so incredibly out of sorts

with what they're bringing to the table as a player food's great stuff as always man thanks for doing this really appreciate your feedback thanks for having having me, guys. Have a great day. Thanks, Feuts. You too, pal. Thanks, buddy. Mike Feuts. Hey, really good question. There's a management team. Yeah, you got your head coach. He's the last guy to decide who jumps over the boards and who doesn't.

But, yeah, I can only imagine the internal um i'm not fighting and i'm not talking about the leafs i'm talking about just in general over where does a guy play and how how long do you stick with something before you kind of temporary give up on it i can't even tell you the line bertuzzi finished on last night he didn't play he didn't play in the third period maybe he had a shift or two so he was benched so by the second was was the last shift with tavaris and or was it with he was out there for the 245 at the end of the second he was was. Ah, that was probably it. He was water winging around in there.

He was the ruggler. So maybe Keefe saw that and said, you maybe need a rest. Thank you. Yeah, listen, he takes some bad penalties too. He's reaching in. Yeah, I mean, I didn't like the call, but move your feet. It was weird that the guy fell. He dove. Yeah. I mean, I didn't like the call, but move your feet. It was a bad. It was weird that the guy fell and. He dove.

But still get your stick out of it. He got his toe picked. Keep skating. Something. Yeah. Anyway, we expect a much better effort tomorrow night. Interesting, though, if he's already in Keith's doghouse. If he's that guy game nine.

You know why we expect a better effort tomorrow night? Yeah. Because we're on the show. Oh, we are. Yes. That's awesome. First one of the year. All right, more of Real Kipper and Bourne

as we go national. We'll revisit Pierre Dorian, fired from the Ottawa Senators. And our good friend Yorkie will be by to let us know all about it.