Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Bottom Six Shortcomings + Sheldon Keefe

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

 Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee share some takes on Juan Soto signing with the New York Mets in MLB before looking back on the Leafs' back-to-back losses to the Capitals and Penguins over the weekend. They get into the Leafs' 5-on-5 struggles, Max Pacioretty's unnatural fit on the first line and the bottom six's lack of production. Then, New Jersey Devils head coach Sheldon Keefe (30:45) joins the show to discuss his new coaching home, managing star players' egos, the team's offensive identity and Jesper Bratt standing out.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it is indeed monday back to work after what has been a rather kind of crazy sports weekend going on what happened well there's big baseball news there's's one NHL trade, but we'll probably get into that a little later with the Colorado Avalanche. The Bills stink. Excellent football game. A bunch of great college football games on Saturday. But to lead off our show, maybe one of the greatest spectacles I've seen in a long, long time on the internet was a Junior A massive brawl on the ice during a teddy bear toss. And I'm like, what am I seeing here?

I'm watching guys wrestle and punch each other besides stuffed animals. Like you can't get any goofier than that. Was it a Barry and Ottawa 67s and the Colts going at it. You know, I went to a lot when I was a kid. I was a junior hockey guy, season ticket holder for the first 20 years of my life. I can only imagine some of the stuff I've seen at junior hockey games, and that brought me back to my youth. Guys just scrapping.

I'm like, the OHL's dead. It's not what it used to be. And then you see guys brawling during a teddy bear toss. Like, we're back. The OHL is back, baby. It is great. It's a great video. Well, we're glad you're OHL is back, baby. It is great. It's a great video. Well, we're glad you're along for the ride for the next two hours,

including our Leaf Hour edition that's starting right now. We are live on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Infernal General Nick, Frank the Tank. Frank the Tank. I don't think it's Frank the Tank. I just saw Frank the Tank. Frank the Tank. I just saw Frank the Tank. He said, I'm working your show.

We should eliminate this portion of the lineup. It's always a wild card. Listen, there's a new person every day. I don't know what to tell you. I'm going to read this off your lineup. Why are you going to bury me?

I'm not going to bury you. You're about to bury me. No, I'm not because I think this is my doing. You're going to bury me. I'm not reading this correctly. You're going to bury me. Toronto Maple Leafs lose both halves of a back-to-back on Friday and Saturday night. Friday 2-1 to the Washington Capitals and Pittsburgh 3-2 on Saturday.

Yeah? What's wrong with that? How bad is that? I'm just... wasn't the scores is that the scores or the record of the weekend or something else differently that's it so what was the score oh five two on two one on three i don't even know what the hell is five two on saturday five two on saturday and friday was what was there an empty night on Friday? Yeah.

I thought it was true. Yeah. So you are going to bury me. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, you're correct. I am. But listen. Listen, I turn off the TV when they go up by 1. If I had the choice between starting the show with nothing or having your lineup, which is.

You'd pick nothing. Inaccurate. I'll take nothing. Inaccuracy. You'd pick nothing. Inaccurate. I'll take nothing. Inaccuracy. You'd pick nothing. Listen, I get it. You're, you're rattled because you're, you're Blue Jays. I didn't even listen.

I didn't even check this out. You're Blue Jays lost Soto Soto. Yeah. Which is a great restaurant in Yorkville. I mean, did any, you'd have to be the biggest idiot to ever think that he was actually going to come here. So lesson learned over a year ago with oh my god on a plane yeah there's i don't think there's so you thought they got played right from the get-go i was i never for a second thought that did anyone else think that i don't think it was real money rogers offered him real money of

course which is at the end of the day, it's a good sign. 15 years, $765 million money? There was people reporting that the Jays would make the highest offer. Just no deferred money, right? That's what the thing was. It's just straight cash. No deferred money from Steve Cohen and the Mets. He's just very rich.

It's very hard to come back from that. You just can't compete with a guy who spends $150 million on statues. But even if they made the same offer, he's picking the Mets. Maybe if they offered $5 million more like they did over the Yankees. But listen. So in speaking of that, I got a taste, a short stint in New York City to understand the dynamics of that sports market. I won a championship there, so I've seen it at its best. I can't imagine the pain right now for Yankee fans

knowing that they got outbid by the Mets. I love the Mets. That's great. Good for them. Let me play the violin for the Yankees fans. Those poor guys. They never get anything. It would have been fine if he went to L.A.

or even if he went to Toronto. But to watch him go down the street to the Mets right now, I can't think of anything that's happened to the New York City fans quite like that. Yeah, it's a tough one for them. That's fun. Fun that he's not in the AL East at least. At least he's in the National League. I gotta tell you, the ideal

scenario, because the ideal scenario clearly is him coming to the Jays, but that was never gonna happen. The ideal scenario was him going to the other league. The Yankees are way worse. It was only for... The gap was only like 5 million. They had an extra year, but it's still not. It was only for like, the gap was only like 5 million. They had an extra year, but it's still not that big of a difference.

It's 5 million more. I mean, 50 million another year on, I think their offer was 16 million over that. But there's one thing with like, there's an opt out after the fifth year. And then if he opts back in, he makes more at that point. Like he can get up to 800 million with the Mets. At that point, you're post money. You're not even someone who worries or thinks about the real the real scary part for me is not the soto thing it's the vladdy thing and i mean i don't want to do too many jay stakes here people don't care about it but you see vladdy watching him get that massive massive that that contract and he's like yeah well i want to try that i'd like to try that a lot that looks fun

getting all that money and he's a free agent at the end of this year why would he sign with the jays there's a chance he signs at all oh yeah he's gonna stay with the jays yes for sure totally not worried about you know the guy that has all the leverage in the world and it's gonna make 500 million dollars not worried about that at all okay back to our scheduled yes programming here back to that five two three two win on saturday night back to the three one five two back-to-back losses uh jb we'll start with you and just your thoughts of where do you want to focus you want to focus on friday before saturday you want to kind of just give us an overall look? I guess just I'll zoom out on overall

and say anytime you take two losses, some things went wrong, and what seems to be going wrong for me right now is they still struggle to generate five-on-five and really to control the play at five-on-five. I know when Matthews, so prior to matthew's injury they're like a top 10 team controlling play once he goes out they're the worst team in the league or second last team in the league and since he's come back they're no better they're still a very bottom team

at controlling play and i think it's it's concerning anytime you're getting 40 of the scoring chances uh in these games goalies have been good, and they've hung around. They're good defensively. Lots is going right, but the concern is they can't score. They're not controlling the game, Skip. You just start looking at the numbers here, and Nick Robertson, two goals, 23 games, no assists. I know.

Ryan Reeves, 19 games, no goals. Grebenkin, I get it. Seven, no points. Seven games, no points. Dewar, 11, no points. No points. No points. No points.

No good. Right? Alex Nylander, five games. This guy comes up with a reputation of ripping it up in the American Hockey League. Yeah. It's team power play time. Yeah. No chance.

You played with your best players, including your brother. No points. Holmberg, no points. Right. You got three. You got three points. One goal. No goals.

One goal. Five points. Into an empty net. No goals for me is like, it's like the general statement about they're not contributing any goals. Yeah. So the bottom half, I know Jonas Siegel had a stat in his article that the top six forwards in the Leafs, which, you know, the core four plus Nyes and McMahon have 80% of their goals this year. They're fourth last in goals by D.

Like they're just not getting anything outside of the guys who always score we did so much work on them not being team a team b their team a team b again uh in about half an hour we're going to welcome in head coach of the new york or new jersey devils sheldon keith this will be interesting i think uh we could probably ask him about this he's got some experience with it. A little bit. For sure. So you're going to want to stick around for that.

As far as our Kippers Clipper, let's start with Craig Bruby on his overview Friday night. Saturday night. Saturday night. Okay. Yep. They were power play. Got a couple goals.

And then, you know, I thought it was pretty solid game we worked we competed uh took too many penalties and uh you know the six on five like at the end of the game there six on four we gotta we gotta come up with a better play there and um you know a little more urgency on that one in my opinion i i thought it was interesting that he said a little bit more urgency. But, I mean, he, I've loved Craig Beruva. I've said a million times how much I've loved him on this show that started this year. How do you not pull the goalie with an offensive zone draw

when it's a power play, you have the offensive zone draw, there's just over two minutes left in the game. You're talking about urgency. That's not pulling the goalie there is the lack of urgency. Like the opposite of it. I couldn't believe they didn't pull the goalie right away. Yeah, curious your thoughts on that too. So they're up a goal and they're on the power play.

Yeah, I'm with you. 214. I was thinking like in his mind, it's like, okay, they can shoot for the empty net. So they can just kind of fire. But if they want to win the draw, then take them out. It was a full minute after that. They didn't take the draw no totally i totally agree with you i was trying to put my myself in his shoes and what he might have been thinking but that did you know in

an era where everyone's pulling goalies earlier yeah felt like the right time to make the pull i tell you i i believe i buy into the theory that if you're down and you're you're fighting the clock like that i would pull the goalie at center ice. I would pull him with the exception of maybe an offensive zone draw. You're an early pull guy. I am. I do believe in it. I do believe in it.

Again, you can see stretches of 5, 7, 10 minutes during any hockey game at any point. Teams aren't even close to getting a shot on goal. Right. So I'm okay with those percentages. any hockey game at any point teams aren't even close to getting a shot on goal right okay so i i'm okay with those percentages but i want an extra attacker on the ice even if we lose the draw like i i cannot wait for puck possession and then have the guys regroup i want that extra guy on the ice then yep extra body to extra body puck to you know get in on a four check or a 50 50 puck i got a better chance of outmanning even if i lose the draw yeah i have a better chance with that player

on the ice there to to get in someone's lane or to hurry someone up yeah to turn a puck over to me i'm not the weight the weight guy so um you, I talked about them being a teammate, team B to talk a little teammate for a second. Mitch Marner, just by far their best player right now. You know, you and I talk about that all the time, but to me,

just not even particularly close. It's interesting that they got Max patch ready as a line. You're a big patches booster. What did I have? But listen, Do I feel like Max Pacioretty, much like Max Domi, can go and fill spots

and maybe have a good week? Do I envision him holding that spot right to first round of the playoffs? No. Absolutely not. not i don't think i think those are short term solutions but you didn't like nowhere in my world do you invite a guy on a pto at his age and then find out that he's going to be your number one left winger.

We do this with the Leafs the last however many years. I said this on Leafs Talk but I'm like, God, that gave me Thornton vibes. Put him up there. Oh, maybe this works. They put Thornton with Matthews and Marner multiple times, right? And I was like, oh my God. I don't agree with them doing it

right now. I don't disagree with it. There's not an obvious other option right now. Yeah, we're not starting game one like this. No, I agree. Like, it's a fine move, but that's what the vibe was that I got when I saw it happening. Totally. Yeah.

He's worked with Willie and JT. You're right. He can plug in there in spots, but. I feel the same way as Matthews and Marner, where you're going into the playoffs or you just, you know, you want a big win. You're going to put Matthews and Marner together and you're going to put Nyes on the left side.

That's the line for me. It's your best line. Why don't we listen to Berube on why Pacioretty went with with uh matthews and marner clip three a little aggressive at times like you know just hasn't played in a while wants to be physical wants to do what he what he does and uh you know we just went to the box too much in general five times you know that's the players over there that was clip two. That's okay. Play the other one and then we'll come out of it.

I just felt like he was going to be a heavy player for him down low in the offensive zone. He ended up getting a goal out of it. I thought Max did a good job tonight with them guys. I thought he maybe died off later on in the game. He hasn't played in a while. I like those reasons. I don't mind those reasons.

I just don't see it as a real strong, long-term play. You can kind of feel Pacioretty recognize that how he's going to get opportunity on this team is by being physical and heavy. And so, you know, maybe a little undisciplined. Yeah, I mean, he... He came in and he last sued somebody for uh uh was that the second consecutive penalty that he had yeah i mean that was a hero call i'm not gonna talk about the

officiating over this weekend but people would like me to i won't do it but i mean there's a scrum in front of the net after they're jamming away the goalie falls down you pick him out give me a break like give me a break but he took two penalties back-to-back. He can't do it. Go ahead. Just that it is, it's funny watching someone, it's not his element, it's not the way he's played over his whole career, and so maybe he doesn't quite

have a sense for where that line is, because that's not his natural inclination. I know we've had long-term conversations, but it's kind of seeping a little bit here, and that is that it's always been a bit of a weakness, that left side. Years now. From the first week of our show, you've been talking about that.

In a perfect world, you would have loved that if Matthew Nyes could just hold his own there with Matthews and M and and marner and then bobby mcmahon was going to be that guy that could come in take a next level maybe put up 25 goals and maybe 25 assists and come in 50 ish right alongside a tavres maybe or Willie. It's just not happening right now. And outside of that, then you've got a major drop-off. Yeah, if you pro-rate Bobby McMahon's stats,

he'd be in an 82-game season, he'd have 24 goals and four assists. That would be his season right now. So yeah, not exactly how you would have drawn it up can't yeah it is disappointing though that this guy and i know it's the thing we talk he can't stay healthy because i think it's kind of one of the underrated stories from last year's playoffs that they couldn't score didn't have depth scoring and he was a guy who scores for them as a depth guy again he's not in the lineup they're struggling with depth scoring like not gonna say they need bobby mcmahon but he is a different speaker the bottom of the line when

he's in he's fast and he can get to the net and he cuts in off his wing and you're like okay i'm noticing him yeah he can pull the play in that direction they don't have a ton of guys like that you know i now i'm grasping the straws but like i like lorenz a lot maybe he's a guy who could get a little bit more opportunity. I like him every time he's out there, so looking for something. You know, you talk about the lack of 5-on-5 scoring, and you talk about who's going to come back here. It feels like there's a lot of pressure on Domi coming back here.

Well, McMahon and Domi and Yarncroft. Yarncroft scored 20 last year. Laugh all you like. Is he close? No, like he got surgery. I don't think he's anywhere to be found. I don't think he's a factor. But I mean, he's going to be a Toronto Maple Leaf this year, is he not?

Good question. Do you think he's just... I mean, he had surgery, so I don't know how long that lasts. But I'm not depending on him as an option, really. But like Domi coming back in here here it feels like there's a ton of pressure on him he didn't score once before he got hurt he was in the 13 game or however long point drought when he was gone so that's one guy mcmahon can't stay healthy it's like it's the team a team b situation very much so here i i don't know i just we talked about third line center

they yeah they may be looking for more than that and you've mentioned hopefully big game hunting a little bit. But we do have Berube weighing in on we need some bottom six. Clip four, please. Well, yeah, for sure. We need some guys to contribute down in the bottom six for sure. Got to find a way to manufacture some goals from those guys for sure. I agree. So is there a fair time to have a reeves

conversation as a guy that's in there every night still played both sides of a back-to-back for them plays close to seven minutes a night what are you saying you want him out of the lineup i'm saying he could be eligible to come out here and there yeah i just don't you know there's two hurts you don't have anyone good to put in who's going to score there you know like you know i mean steve's scores every night in the ahl you come up you put him in the fourth line it's gonna look worse no it's probably one percent better offensively no ten percent better offensively whatever i don't disagree with that if that yeah is the biggest problem then you know reeves not there to do that but there's just so many guys in the bottom six are putting over there with no hope of a goal right and it's like well they're the good defensively but it's

like there's no so who's the hope camp you're like even when he comes back he's not supposed to score and it's like reeves not supposed to score holmberg same none of the guys they throw over other than the four guys gives you a hope in hell i'm gonna score i'm gonna throw a little emphasis on craig bruby on this and i think he's done a heck of a job and i think we've had more than a sample size to suggest that at least for the atlantic division i can tell you that the only two teams that look like they can win a best-of-seven series is Florida and Toronto. So everybody else I kind of have underneath. So he's done a good job.

But I think the onus is now on him is to help coach these guys in the bottom six to put a little bit more emphasis on, I don't know if you want to use the word creativity or just overall offense, but I think for the first 25-plus games, they've been programmed a certain way right from training camp to get pucks in deep, it simple and north south north south and somewhere there's got to be a little bit of a just a little bit more of don't worry about it so much try to make a play yeah a little bit more emphasis on trying to make a play instead of dumping and chasing and playing that old

hard style which is important but you got to find a bit of a fine line and i know i think the score was four two on the on the second on the second uh empty net goal it was three two the final score five two oh sorry okay so i don't know if you remember the play but leafs had the puck i think it was matthew nyes has it has a ton of room to gain the blue line and he dumped it and he dumps it yeah and then i do remember that and it's like this is the part where you know craig bruby and his coaching staff have to say listen listen, we cannot, we have possession of the puck. We have a 100% possession of the puck. We want to go north, but you can still go north if you have it.

So we went from 100% having the puck to a 50-50 chance of getting it back. And we didn't get it back, and now it's back in our net. That's where you encourage him to hold on to the puck gain the zone look for a man just be take an extra step and i think all of these guys are just like absolutely almost numb now to making plays you get to stay in the lineup if you don't turn it over like there's no onus on these guys to actually produce it's just don't turn it over and we'll put you back on the ice and yeah it's funny because the devils where sheldon keith who we're going to talk to today their offensive stats have gone up quite a

bit um and the leafs have gone down quite a bit and obviously both teams needed that like the leaf needed to prioritize things differently but this is the first time in the matthews marner era the team has been under three goals per game offensively it hasn't happened before and they're they're down so you know looking for it a bit uh nick robertson one of the guys who can score can't score and was healthy scratched after playing 10 minutes on friday night you think there's punting on this guy they've seen enough well friday to do this again well there's nothing else to say friday scratching them now friday in a long list of bad ones was a bad one like it was robert friday night was i didn't think friday night was a particularly good one for anyone i thought the washington

capitals look excellent and shut everybody down but yeah i mean robertson was not great in that game all right let's go to barubi while we're on the subject of Nick Robertson. All right, all right, all right. Clip six. We just got to play better. You know, that's it. I mean, we all know that. I talked to Nick today about it. We'll figure it out.

You know, it's my job to help him and the coaching staff, and it's his job to find a way to play better hockey. He's capable of it. You know, he's got ability, speed. He's got a good shot. We've got to find a way to get him going. All right. He took a little responsibility on that.

Yeah, just what you're talking about. It's my job. Yeah. Absolutely, it's your job. You've got to find a way for not only nick but a lot of these guys in the bottom six to find different ways to get to the net yeah so but let me ask you this can after you've been so hardcore coaching about the defensive side of the puck and north and south and straight lines and hard hockey like can you reverse reverse course i don't think

you need to reverse reverse but like massage the message a little bit yeah you can okay you can i love the point you're making about like i still want to be a north south coach i still want us to go north south but if you can go north with it that's allowed yeah like hang on to a little bit extra uh one other guy he talked about was nize who returning from his concussion um not as effective i've become a little bit worried that nize is you know he's so good at cleaning up after matthews and marner and net front and whatever i'd still like to see him as a guy try to make some plays he's a talented guy and i feel like he's a little

stuck in a rut shoot it in the net on on Saturday night. Yeah, the one off the inside of the post. Shoot it in the net. That was the great positioning. Yeah, he's in the right spot. A lot on the puck. Shoot it in the net. I hate hockey. So frustrating. Didn't get the bounce. Yeah, so

let's just listen to Bruby. Oh, sorry. I was just going to say, just touch a little bit on Matthew Nyes. I'm like you and many other people. There's just a lot to love about this guy and the upside. But if someone asked me, are you convinced that this guy can become a top power forward, a guy that can maybe on a good year have 40 goals 80 points 90 points i i'm i'd probably say

it's a big ass i'm 75 75 sure that he's got enough talent but there's hockey IQ decisions that don't match up to where I think his ceiling physically could be. You know, like if he's, I think the question for me is like, is he going to be a 30-goal, 50-point power forward who shoots it in the net sometimes and just kind of gets in the crease? Or is he a guy who can also make plays, to your point get to the 80 point like you know get to a point per game type of that's i'm not as sure i thought that was there and i'm not as sure now okay so we're we're kind of on the right vibe on that and maybe it's just more reps like Like, what is he at now? 125 career games. They say defensemen, we need to get them over, what, 200, 250

before they really start to understand the game. Maybe Nye's just is still learning and growing at the NHL level. 108 NHL games. 108. Think about it. It's not even a year and a half in the NHL. No, and he's just 22, right? He turned that month in a video.

So maybe it's just a matter of still getting him more comfortable at the NHL level. He's out of college, guys. He's just, remember, it's out of college. The things that he did or he could get away with, including going through the neutral zone 1,000 miles an hour and you never got run over like he did earlier this year, those are all kind of learning experiences at the NHL level. Yeah.

So let's listen to Craig Berube's thoughts, clip five on Nyes. I thought he got better as the game went along, to be honest with you. I think, you know, coming back from his injury, he's been okay. You know, a little tentative, I think. But I thought tonight he kind of broke through that a little bit. Had some opportunities and was physical again. So it was good to see that. Yeah, it's interesting you used tentative.

Yeah. I see the same stuff, don't you, since he came back? Yeah. Like early in the year he was hammering guys and just didn't continue to do that. Can I add one more name to the tentative? Matthews. You couldn't get that out fast enough. Oh, I mean, it's...

Yeah. Like, sticking out. What is going on here? I don't know. I mean, I want to give the benefit of the doubt with the injury and ramping stuff up and that he's not still hurt. Or, like, I just... He's not...

Since the start of this season and even in training camp he hasn't been the same guy flat out so i'm not sure i feel like he's swooping like i just don't see the same stops and starts it's a lot of i i don't see any jump with him and like it's a it's a high bar for him i you know i have him at like 70 75 max yeah like he's out there i'm watching him out there it's like he's towing a boat i don't see him he's moving oh no no no he's moving like my 86 volvo in high school there is no no, there is no Matthews peak when he's skating out there. No, I agree.

I don't, I don't think he's close to himself. And I, I mean, you got to think that it's related to a trip overseas. Ton, ton of hockey this month too. Like it's going to be quite the ass.

First, first, I mean, they, uh, talked to Berube today and they, and he talked, yeah, we'll go here, but uh talked to berube today and they and he talked yeah we'll go here but he talked to berube today i couldn't use the audio because it sounded like they're in an old-timey jail drips and people banging on stuff so we didn't play the audio but he said

that you know he's his first back-to-back and he thinks his legs are getting better and all that stuff okay but like i mean how many games has he played here now i mean you'd like to but you'd like to see some vintage matthews here i he he's he's seeing what we're seeing for sure for sure okay how could you not yeah and i think like i mean producing for now yeah he is but anyways we should break to go okay let's take a quick break when we return sheldon keith head coach of the new jersey devils on deck is his devils will entertain the Toronto Maple Leafs tomorrow night, 7 PM more with Sheldon after the break. Hey,

it's a little far and I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame 6 PM weekdays on sports, that sports at five 90, the fan and wherever up the biggest games of the night. It's the Fan Free Game, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. In a few minutes, Sheldon Keefe, head coach of the New Jersey Devils.

Have we got him? Is he ready? Got him. All right, let's go. Sheldon, thanks for joining us, man. How are you? Doing well. Doing well, thanks. Glad to be here.

Yeah. So, we're a little over a quarter of the way here. You've got your Devils team firmly entrenched here for a good run here. How's it been overall for your experience so far? When you can compare it to, obviously, guys like us covering you on a daily basis. You know what?

It's been really good. I, you know, as I've gone through it all you know yeah obviously it's a new experience for me and i think if i was really to describe it i'd say there's a lot more similarities and there are differences um in terms of the job you know it's at the end of the day it's it's hockey and and uh the schedule in the league all those things are kind of the same uh you know there's a little difference in the media dynamics and stuff they're dealing with on a daily basis. But, you know, it doesn't take away from the fact that, you know,

you're coaching a team that's got expectations and we're trying to create high standards here and looking to live up to them every day. Sheldon, you've got some big names there on that team and you had some big names here. And I wonder, you know, it was different when we were in the American Hockey League than the guys you're coaching now. You have egos and big contracts with these players.

How do you balance guys going for these personal goals versus trying to get them on the team page? I know you have to keep them happy and give them those opportunities, but how do you get them then to also fall in line with your team plan? I mean, I really think it's just how you go about it, how you talk to the group and how you present it. You know, obviously a lot of that is very personal to each player

and their own personality and priorities and such. But, you know, from my experience, you know, the players want both. You know the players want both they you know they want team success and then they want to be thriving themselves they've got personal goals and their own egos and all these kind of things that come with being great you know you don't get to be a premier talent without some some level of ego and goals and aspirations and all these sort of things but they got to meet you know they got to be connected, and at times, one has to be checked for the other,

and more often, of course, it's got to be for the team. But it just so happens when you're dealing with your biggest egos and your biggest talents, those players thriving ultimately fuels the team. So I think in so many ways, it's aligned, and that's how I approach it. We know you've been blessed with a couple of superstars in Austin Matthews to start your NHL career and now Jack Hughes. When it comes to deploying them or putting them out there,

is there much difference with your philosophy or is it pretty much when you got a guy like that, you just put them over the boards well i mean i'm trying to get to know each guy and figure out what it is that you know that makes them tick uh and how to how to best utilize their skills and assets i've also got nico he sure here obviously who quite often takes a lot of the defensive responsibilities is is a great player offensively in his own right, and is having a good season offensively, but just takes so much of a defensive load

that it makes it a little bit easier and natural to give someone like Jack a lot of the offensive looks in terms of face-offs and favorable matchups and things like that. So I think it, you know, partially it's player-specific and partially it's just what do you have in terms of your assets on your team and how do you utilize your assets best?

The NHL is a tough league to win in. And obviously every night or every game you go into it, you're trying to build a lineup that can win that game. But when you're a team that's near the top of the division or definitely a playoff team, how often would you experiment and say maybe this isn't the best thing for us tonight but i just want to see how this mix of a lineup looks well i mean i mean i think it depends on where you're at and where

you're at with the team and i mean we're a team we would we want to be a playoff team we gotta earn that we had a lot of hockey left to play here. We put ourselves in a pretty good position here early on, but this is an organization, a team that's made the playoffs twice in the last 12 years. You know, I think in my time in Toronto, we were fortunate to be a playoff team every year. You've got, you know, the top players there have known nothing but that.

And they've got great confidence. They show up at training camp that, you know, as long as they deliver on their end, they're going to be a playoff team. I think you are sort of looking a little bit further down the line. We're trying to build a foundation here. You know, we've got good players.

We've got a great opportunity to really, you know, build a good team. But we're not getting ahead of ourselves. We've got lots of work to really build a good team, but we're not getting ahead of ourselves. We've got lots of work to do on a daily basis. But with that said, I think as a coach, you're always looking for the best mix you can, and you're always sort of looking down the line and what if and being prepared, you know, injuries and things like that

that might pop up and try to have guys familiar with one another. But I'm very much still learning about this team and the players themselves so um you know i'm just trying to let things breathe a little bit we haven't changed much uh from day one of training camp uh some little tweaks here and there but generally speaking i've just been kind of putting some pairs together both on defense and on forward and kind of playing a little bit with a third guy in each line. But, you know, whether it's five-on-five player special teams, you want to build a solid foundation and build from there. And that's kind of where I'm at here in my first year. Also, Annette, a lot of experience with Markstrom and Jake Allen here.

And I think the split's been like 20 starts for Markstrom and and 10 for alan was that the game plan all along do you see this ending up being a 50 30 kind of split knowing that markstrom will be hopefully your guy when it's all said and done yeah i mean in acquiring marky you know that's certainly fits his uh vision is to have him take the bulk of the starts. He's played a lot through his career. Jake Allen, I think, has been a great support for Mark. He's played well for us. We just have to be careful, you know, with both goaltenders' workloads.

They're both older guys, and we want to make sure that they're in the best position possible to succeed each day jake has you know played very well as i said and we've got to be very careful with his workload in fact it looks like he's he's going to miss a little bit of time here right now um you know you got they got to tweak something yesterday in in the game so just little things like that you just got to be smart with both guys, but Marquis, uh, uh, you know, played a lot in his career,

as I said, and, and we'll take the load for us, but we're, we're fortunate to have someone like Jake. That's just been so supportive and played well when, when called on. Sheldon,

I'm wondering if you have a philosophy on the, uh, offensive side of the puck, your coach, I think who your teams have had great offensive success. And I'll recognize that the devil's defensive numbers are a lot better too this year but um here in toronto the team is you know beat the drum about being more of a north south team and are struggling to produce a little bit offensively do you coach the offensive side of things much or is that something you just

say we you know you trust your elite guys to create that well there has to be a certain level of trust there that those guys, you know, you put them in positions to succeed and they're going to be able to make plays. But that said, I definitely believe that I coach the offense a lot. I think that's a huge part of the game, not just because of the offense that leads to goals, but I think when you have a good offense, you automatically become better defensively

because you just have the puck a lot and you're able to wear down the opposition and things like that so that that to me is how I look at offense is it's not just a way to score goals but it's a way to control play so we talk about that quite a bit and then also just in turn I think the more we have the puck in favorable positions that our talent is going to be able to come through. So, you know, it's one of those things as a coach, you want to be as good as you can in each area. I mean, we sat down in the offseason and looked at it and, you know, started talking about, you know, some things, some goals and things that you want to shoot for. For me, we just want to be you want to be good at everything. You want to be good at keeping the puck out of your net.

You want to be good at putting the puck out of your net. You want to be good at putting it in the other team's net. You want to be good on special teams and in goal. And you want to be good on the physical side of things. And that's what I feel good about with where we're at as a team. I think we sit top 10 in goals for, top 10 in goals against, top 10 in special teams, and even on the physical side. It hits fighting majors, like all these things. Our players have really embraced what we're asking them to do

and have been good in each area. So I think that's really what you're shooting for. And then you want to hope that it's all able to thrive when it counts the most in the playoffs. And, of course, that's where we've fallen short, and that's why I'm talking to you remotely from New Jersey. You're watching and listening to Sheldon Keefe, head coach of the New Jersey Devils.

So tomorrow night you face a Leaf team that's looking for answers in their bottom six. And overall, how do you feel like your bottom six has performed so far? I would say, you know, we're in a similar boat. You know, we've had some injuries here with Curtis Lazar and Nate Bastion, two guys that just had terrific starts to the season for us in terms of just being guys who play hard and simple hockey and can take on some defensive responsibilities

and kill penalties and forecheck and do a lot of little things that can kind of set the table for other lines. We really miss those guys um and we felt that a little bit um but that said i think we've you know we we've gotten good performances and big goals at key times from different people paul cotter for the most part played on on our lower lines and his sports and big goals and make big plays for us holla and mercer these guys have been really good too at different times. And I think right now we're searching for it a little bit in that bottom mix and are changing things up a little to try to spark some things

and get a little bit more balanced approach. But, you know, I think that's sort of the reality of the league. There's not many teams that are really rolling, you know, for high-octane lines. You're just trying to manage the game as best you can, get key goals from lowering your lines, and hope that your talent can come through more often than not. Sheldon, last one from me.

Thanks for joining us today. When you got there, you obviously knew quite a bit about your roster. Obviously, you know, you've been playing these guys, but was there anyone when you got there, you're like, oh, I didn't know that this player, you know, had a certain ability? I would say, you know, Jesper Bratt, I think, is probably the guy that I've been most impressed with. And I don't want to say surprised because when you coach against him,

you can see his talent. But it really is exceptional. And this, of course, you know, some of the obvious guys that we have, I think you know, but Jesper Brat is having a great season and has had a number of other good seasons. But his skill level and his speed, his edge work, his ability to escape pressure is truly elite. He's been a good penalty killer for us. And then he's just an impressive guy in terms of how he manages his life

and his body and being prepared and consistent every day with his habits. He's a really good example for any player in terms of how he manages himself. I've been really impressed with him and all facets of his game and life. A few bucks on the board tomorrow night, Sheldon? You know what? I put more than a few up the first time we played, so this time they're not getting it. They missed their chance, eh?

Well, we appreciate your time, man, and thanks for doing this for us. My pleasure. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. He's got a fast team man he's had a that team's been fast for a while but they can scoot uh jesper bratt 37 points in 30 games actually leading the devils this year 5 10 26 years old just hums out there it's funny you know hearing sheldon talk and i'm not sure if he's still there and i probably laughed immediately but you know, hearing Sheldon talk, and I'm not sure if he's still there,

and I probably left immediately, but, you know, much like some people probably feel with us, that you listen to somebody every single day for five years, that you feel this really big sense of familiarity. Yeah. And, like, I don't know him at all, but I feel like i know everything about yeah like i like i listen to him like i just i'm like i know that guy so well and he doesn't know who i

am it's like having an ex come on the show he is like it really had that feel all of us are kind of like what do we say what do we say in itself let's give the guy credit for even coming on our show if i had had to listen to ourselves every day for three years i would have said no chance pass like i'm still sick of you guys give me a year to not be sick of you guys and then i'll come on the show and i'd go i get it sheldon i get it yeah absolutely maybe a year and a half i mean his team having almost 40 points and doesn't hurt probably makes it a little easier to come back on with i'd say so but do you get that like i mean you do know him so you've worked with him closely you know him well i don't know how kipper does i just felt like he came on i was

like oh i i worked it with him during some rough years i worked for him when I had to learn IT to become the video coach on the spot mid-season, while also being 18 months prior to my first rehab visit. I was not at my finest version of myself when I worked with him. A challenge. And he still came on. He's an excellent guy. I appreciate the patience he had. Not just Sheldon, though,

but anybody that has gone through a significant experience like Sheldon has had, it can't help but make you a better coach if you were paying attention to the things that went well and the things probably like a redo on. It is funny, like the team there is built not too dissimilarly from the leafs in that your best players are pure skill not heavy you know brat and hughes guys um you know and then you you kind of have it's it's very similar built dougie hamilton is probably the biggest difference

you have a pure top end power play one d man which i don't think he ever had here and and now by the way they're first in the nhl in power play and he's starting to warm up he came off a very significant injury yeah 21 points in 30 games for him five snipes yeah another guy that in years past he would have said was a lock for team canada on the on the back end yeah you know and it just injuries and everything else but they actually you know everybody talks about barkov including kipper barkov being the most underrated guy in the league but you know he wins selk, and it's just injuries and everything else. But they actually, you know, everybody talks about Barkov, including Kipper Barkov being the most underrated guy in the league. But, you know, he wins Selkies and he's a cup winner. Everybody talks about how great he is. They actually have two of the guys that are most underrated.

Bratt and Heischer, to me, are two of the most underrated guys in the league. Heischer is one of the best two-way centers in the league. Almost 30 points in 30 games this year, 15 goals. I really like watching him play. And was that, he was first overall right like second second was nolan patrick right a good decision i'd say that worked out yeah yeah the other one i find interesting here and we all agree he's going to be really good but how good is the brother luke yeah really really good right they're all how quickly though how how quickly he gets really really good

might be how quickly the new jersey devils go to next level they could win a stanley cup they have some exceptional defensive defensemen like brett pesci uh jonah siegenthaler and jonathan kovacevic are all really, really good defenders. Dillon's a big hitter. Hamilton can shoot it in. And then if Hughes becomes a top-end guy, you know, I've heard people say, oh, the Devils are pretty small up front.

That's a big decor. It was Kovacevic. He was a hab, right? He was, and he's very good. The top pairs for, like, defensive stuff, he's involved in all of them. They just let him. I guess they kept all the... Anyways.

Yeah, you know, I've been saying this since the summer and since sheldon got hired there but i gotta tell you at least devil's playoff matchup at some point feels really inevitable to me i don't know how it would how it would stack up i guess if they win that division it would be a conference final at least for a wild card they're the best team like i don't know what the thing is, but the way things go in this city, I really do feel a matchup between those two. Really fun. Sheldon Keefe's big breakthrough comes against the Leafs at your expense.

Does that sound impossible? No. No, it does not. Does that sound extremely possible? Because I said that day one when he got hired there. It just feels like that would be a really, feels like it would be a good playoff series too, but go back to my youth, Devils and Leafs.

Palat, Meyer, they got a good hockey club. Yeah. Palat, I'm curious how that's going. His numbers aren't sterling or anything, but they do. Paul Cotter's having a great year. There's something to be said about a guy like that with his. In a playoff series. Stanley Cup pedigree in Tampa Bay.

Oh, yeah. Coming into the room every day. It matters to some of those kids, right? Yeah. And they have him as like a pure conscience on the line with Hughes and Bratt right now. By the way, we haven't mentioned Timo Meyers on that team. Remember him?

Yeah, who I wanted to trade Matthew Nyes for. Okay. Would you do it today? Maybe. I mean, the revisionist history of it isn't as bad as i thought it was at one point this year but yeah there you go anyways mccabe by the way skating again today that's fine i texted luke fox i think fine yeah he's fine i'm telling you he's fine okay yeah okay i i was just saying like i the second he missed a game or a practice i was like

this is bad here's what no here Here's what Luke Fox had to say. I texted him. He said, McCabe practiced in full on fourth pair with Refai. Told doubtful for tomorrow. Not completely ruled out, though. Yeah, he's fine. Okay. He's fine.

And we're fine. We are fine. Take a deep breath. Because we're just getting started. We go national next. Gary Gally will join us. Lots of talk from Florida. They got the Board of Governors, including tampering.

Or is it, I've never heard this expression in my life, soft tampering. But I think that's a thing. We're not tampering. We're not tampering. Soft tampering. You can't be kind of pregnant here, boys. How soft. We'll find out when we return to Real Kipper and Born.