Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Brad Treliving's Quarter Pole Press Conference

Episode Date: November 18, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on Brad Treliving's press conference on Tuesday. They review each of the Leafs' GM's answers and discuss the timing of the presser, his confidence in Craig Berube's messaging, how his criticisms reflect on Auston Matthews' leadership, and the expectations for the offseason additions. Then, they discuss the potential impact of Treliving's comments on the team's play. Later, The Athletic's Jim Rutherford stops by (34:40) to help tee up the Leafs' matchup against the St. Louis Blues, parallels for Berube from his situation in St. Louis to now, what's behind the Blues' disappointing start to the season, and Jordan Binnington still searching for his form.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Let's get her going here on the real Kipper and Bourne show. It is the Leaf Hour edition of our program. Nick Kiprio, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Schultz, Derek Brandeo, and soon to be busting through those doors, Justin Bourne. Who, if you by chance, We're listening to our traffic report, Sammy. Prior to us coming on the air, you would have learned the DVP is closed. Yeah, our great friend and colleague Carrie Pranskis told us that...

Oh, yep, there you go. You just heard her voice. Traffic alert. The southbound DVP is closed from Don Mills to Bayview Bloor. So... Who got DVPed? Yeah, our boy, our boy, Borny got DVPed. Listen, we love this city. It's a wonderful city, but at any... Listen, I'm wrong a lot.

At any moment, Kipper, your whole day can be ruined at the drop of a hat. It said that it's closed all the way, one way, and it's one lane coming north, closed, totally going south for a police investigation. So if you're listening to this right now, you probably got lots of time in your car because you're not going anywhere.

So settle in, baby. Do we know what happened? No, I don't think we know what happened. I'm not sure what happened, but I've been texting with Borny. Borny said that his ETA has gone up, gone down. He's been grinding to get here. So he'll be here as soon as humanly possible, I'm sure. In the meantime, a friendly reminder.

We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And if you can't catch us live, Justin, if you're out there listening, you can catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcast. There's no way he's listening. There's no way he's listening. If he misses the show, he should at least watch it later on tonight.

No way. No shot. No shot. All right. It's game day. Yeah. Which is good news. Depends what your perspective is.

But yeah, it's another chance to end the losing streak. Keep it from going to six, Kipper. But I think the biggest news is the general manager speaking to the media today. In about half an hour, we'll also welcome Jeremy Rutherford, who covers the St. Louis Blues and writer for the athletic, he'll join us and give us an update on the second struggling team that we'll watch tonight besides the Toronto Maple Leafs, the St. Louis Blues, nowhere near where we thought they'd be, at least I, listen, I got the Florida Panthers right out of the gate out of September to win the Stanley Cup. I'm not getting this one right,

I don't think, with the St. Louis Blues. I thought, I thought for sure, Sammy, that what I witnessed in the playoffs and how hard they pushed Winnipeg that they were going to be able to reset and get themselves back in contention but that hasn't been the case but we'll talk to Jeremy in a little over 30 minutes and then of course on Tuesdays

Steve Aliquette analyst with the New York Rangers on MSG, CEO ClearSite Analytics will come in and give us a wonderful perspective as he always does on Tuesdays. Yeah, it's a battle at Scotia Bankering it tonight of the 30th best team in the league by points percentage and the 28th best team in the league by points percentage at least being 28th blues being 30th kip so the big

story of today was general manager brad tree living addressing the media yeah and i'm not sure if this was something scheduled some people have suggested while it's the quartermark and maybe a state of the union address is kind of a standard thing for him. I don't recall, I don't think we had one last year, did we? I remember for living being much more willing to come out and talk to the media throughout the year here and there, but I'm not, I mean, we've talked about this team so much but I can't remember exactly if he did one this time last year, but I think he's much more willing to come out and speak, but this one felt different,

wouldn't you say? Yes, no, no question. Based on this recent losing streak and the fact that we're ever so close to the American Thanksgiving mark, where many analytics suggest that the Leafs chances are now making the playoffs well below 50%. I think some of them, Sammy, have them under 20%. We are now 10 days away, well, I guess nine days away, 27th is the Thursday. is American Thanksgiving. And yeah, I forget what the actual percentage is, but it's a huge number.

If you're in by that time, then you're looking pretty good for a playoffs. But lease are now tied with the Buffalo Sabres for last place in the Eastern Conference. So they have some work to do. I know there's, you know, there are a couple wins out of second or whatever. There's a lot of jumbled up teams in the Eastern Conference,

but they got to start considering getting some wins here to get themselves back in that picture because it's starting to look a little bit grim. As mentioned, the big story today, General manager Brad Tree Living addressing the media on the leaf's poor start to the season. You want to start with his opening statement? Yeah, let's just go from there and then we'll move throughout it. I'd open it by saying, obviously, as we sit here today, we're not where we want to be or where we envision to be.

Obviously, we've underperformed to this point. And I take full responsibility. I'm in charge of the hockey department. I've put the people in place on the ice off the ice. So the responsibility lies with myself. And we start today and every day trying to get ourselves back up and going and improve where we are. There's lots of areas that we need to improve upon. And my job is working with Craig and the coaching staff and our players to get us back going

and playing to a level that I believe we're capable of. playing so that's his opening remark yeah so you think it is his responsibility ultimately like do you think he's the one that should come out and say that like it's you know basically saying it's my fault without a question okay yeah without a question so it is though obvious that he is the architect right he mentioned it he's responsible for the players on the ice so it is it is stating the obvious now i said the other day that it's probably a good idea to to hold yourself accountable right and that's one reason why he would go on the air oh all right let's welcome in dvp born you all right

Did anybody flick you the bird? Honestly, I wasn't even looking in the rear view, but very likely, yes. I would say from lower to broad view, I probably got 32 of those. Okay. But according to my wife, you're about 32 behind my league leading 60 plus birds. People have flicked me. Not my usual pattern of driving. I apologize to you guys.

Don't apologize. Don't apologize. It probably gave you a good chance to catch up on some eating. emails or text messages. I listened to all the Bradstree Living audio. Yes. And don't text or email while driving. That's right.

All right. We just started with Brad's opening statement. You've heard it. You've listened to it. You want to start off by giving us your thoughts on the accountability of it. Now, I was just telling Sammy a little bit that, you know, the other day I said, It's maybe not a bad idea just to come out, but it's such a double-edged sword because for me now it's, you hear everybody like, okay, they're Rome's burning, they're horrible, where's Brad Tree Living, right? So on one side, I get he wants to come out and show everybody I'm not hiding, I'm responsible, this is my team, he said all of that, but is that enough?

well you know I imagine in my mind that the PR team going into this year has on the schedule for the year at 20 games 40 games 60 games we're going to do the GM's going to talk like this to me just feels like a scheduled it's that time of year time to get out there

and just assess the situation the timing is unfortunate that they've lost five in a row so you go out there and really you're doing triage trying to put out fires and paper over everything I guess my takeaway from today Kip was that what's different?

What's different? Did any opinion of yours change? That's what I got out of it today. And I kind of switched a little bit on, on, yeah, it was probably a good idea to now after listening to him, I asked myself, what was to gain out of it? Right. Like, what's the plan? Like, we're all sitting here every day going, okay, this is a problem, this problem.

What are they going to do about it? Oh, good. The GM's speaking tomorrow. And I'm sitting here today going, I kind of feel like I felt yesterday. Nothing's changed. They're just going to keep throwing the same team out and hoping it wins. So I think that's once you get past it, okay, Brad, it's your responsibility. And it's great that you said it.

But nobody got in anything out of, well, how are you going to fix this? Or what's your next move? Nobody got anything out of it. So really what you really ended up getting is a reaction to, the noise. Yeah. You know, and just hiding,

not even hiding, but like you got a lot of, you know, the safety sort of, if we can make our team better, we'll make our team better. Yeah. Well, yeah, of course.

Yeah. Obviously. Okay, let's pick up on clip two with what needs to be improved. Our record is indicative of how we've played. Sometimes you have a record, you look at each game and obviously the results are

we're in the results business but there's nights that you play well and lose there's knights that you just score more than the opponent right but you haven't played well I think far too often we haven't even in games that we've won

we haven't won the game sometimes we've scored more goals so I look at it really in a couple of areas in particular we just got to play a more connected game starting defensively we've given up too much and and that's on our whole group from from our goal tending right through our whole our whole group we've given up too much defensively that was not that wasn't this team last year right so we've given up too much defensively

we're not playing connected and when I talk about connected it's it's on both sides of the puck right generating offense we've scored goals but to me we haven't done the things things that you need to do to generate offense on a regular basis. Conversely, we haven't done the things that you need to do collectively as a group to prevent the other team from scoring.

So number one, it's getting back to being a connected group. I think the inconsistency of effort in some cases, and there's a lot of nights that don't question the effort, but there's been some inconsistencies there. And then I just

the enthusiasm of our group. I think I think when you go through a difficult time, it's easy to, you know, everybody that you feel a little bit tight. We need to get that enthusiasm back in our group. Wow. I just wish he would have started with and ended with like his concern over effort and the enthusiasm not being there. Like that to me is the biggest red flag I got out of today is where is the enthusiasm? Where is the, I'm coming to the rink. Every day I get to live my dream.

I get paid for this. People want my autograph. Bring me Seth-Jurvis. Mitch Marner, we're treated like gods. And you can't come to the rink with enthusiasm. Did you guys already play the vanilla clip? No, not yet. Does that relate to this somewhat?

I'm sure we have it. Like, you know, go ahead. You put together a team where you're claiming that you have enthusiastic players. It's like, come on. Yeah. Is that what we're down to now? Come to the, like, please try harder and look happy. Look cheerful.

Please clap. Like you want to be here. Yeah. Too much vanilla. Yeah. Should we listen to that clip? Because I think it's related. Where is it?

Clip nine, please. I think there's been too much vanilla with our team. And that's a big part of what you try to establish your team is what it's going to look like on a nightly basis, right? When you're going well, you have a really good indication. There's going to be good nights and bad nights. But you have a pretty good idea how it's going to look like from night tonight. A large part of the frustration is you don't know how it's going to look like, right?

It's been in spurts. It's been in periods. It's been within periods. I think you can count on one hand how many full, complete games we've had. So that's a big part of it is going back to how do we, you know, how do we want to look like and trying to get to look like that on a more consistent basis. Is Vanilla gone to Rocky Road? I complained about that on Twitter.

What's wrong with vanilla? Vanilla's taking a beating. Yeah, more like Tiger Tail. It's been ugly. Honestly, I think a lot of the things he said there are he came out and endorsed his coach, but a lot of them are an indictment of the coach where he's like, I don't know how it's going to look for a night from night to night. I don't know how it's supposed to look when we win is basically what he said.

Like what is it, what's a good looking night for this version of the Toronto Maple Leafs? He's not sure. The connectedness hasn't been there. the effort's not always there the enthusiasm's not always there but we're really happy with you know the way it's going you know sort of thing or with the coaching

can we play two clips back to back here that are alluding to that Derek we start with the Trillivin clip four on Brubay's messaging I believe fully in Craig and his messaging when I talk to the players too they believe in it but there is that disconnect

that we're not doing it comes back to the inconsistency. So it's always the big question in sport, right? Why don't you just go do it? That's what we have to work through. So I'd love to be able to say it's this. You have to

keep hammering home the message. You have to keep working with these guys on a daily basis for them to grasp it. And that's the challenge in front of us. So he said there was like the disconnect or whatever. Can you play the fourth Barube clip from today, Derek, where he

who's asked about that, same thing. Brad says he believes in your messaging, but he said there seems to be a disconnect with the player. What's that? He says he believes in the messaging. Who? Brad Tree Living says he believes in your messaging, but he thinks there's a disconnect with the players.

Why do you think that is? I don't think there is a disconnect, but, I mean, I can't really answer that question. We do not agree. He's got a cold today, huh? Yeah, he's tired. It's grumpy. That's a little strange.

Borney's right. Every single thing that he laid out that's pissing him off so far to start this year is effort, connectivity, messaging, which we've said all season long so far. Yes. We've talked about the gap, the space between forwards and D, and that's exactly what he's talking about. Well, and the space between this direct line of play that we hear they're supposed to be playing. way that I think they want to play or have played in the past. So is he laying the groundwork here? I don't know. Rosie had a good question.

Rosie DeMano asked. What's the difference? What's a difference? Because she said it's the same messaging, the same plan. And last year, it seems like it was executed. Why isn't it being executed this year? We have that. Clip five, the answer to that question.

That's what keeps me up at night. I would say that just because you did it last year or last week doesn't make it that you're just going to do it. You got to dig in. You have to do it, right? If I look at one of the things I talked about just earlier was, you know, how we played last year, we'd give up zone time and we'd give up. Just sort of talking a little bit technical, we'd give up zone time, we'd give maybe some shots. What we didn't give up is a lot of stuff inside, right?

Like we kept things away from our net, the prime opportunities, we didn't. To me, it's just a commitment to doing the work. That's really what it comes down to is the plan is not a different plan. You have to, just because you did it, like I said last year, you have to commit to the work. And to me, that's a big part of it is, you know, the style that we want to play is a hard style. But unless you commit to the work, it doesn't matter what you've done in the past. And that's where I see a little bit of the fall off is doing it together, you doing your job so that I can do my job. and then committing to the hard parts of the game.

And that's where we've fallen off right now. I will say some of this also reflects back on the team captain, right? Trying to get these guys to do it the same way, to do it every night to encourage the effort and enthusiasm and the joy of being at the rink. That's part of it too. There's been nobody more vanilla this year than Austin Matthews. No.

And I am okay, you know, talk about his, talk about his, 40 goal pace being empty calories that's what i call them no totally right it's like there's nothing there's nothing of substance outside of him shooting it in a net but outside of that you need so much more to set a tone or or carry a bit of a strut have some mojo he had more mojo in his first game of his career against Ottawa than anything we've seen this year. In fairness, that was pretty max mojo. That's tough to replicate. It's not the goals.

It's the way he carried himself. And the feeling that every shift, you noticed an 18-year-old phenom. Yeah, it's like Schaefer in the Ohio, right? In the height of his career, 10 years later, prime everything, and you get Vanessa. if all you do is shoot it in the net a lot that's very good and people like that but then you're deluxe robertson that's you know you're kind of hoping for more than that you know it came up on my i don't know where i saw it one of the social medias i spent all day on but i saw a video it's like like a sentimental video of like the start of this era oh boy and i was like watching videos of

matthews like when he was young i was like oh my god it's a different guy like the enthusiasm that he was playing with like to use brew uh to use shriveling's word the enthusiasm the speed that it's just it's not the same and i guess what nobody's the same guy at 28 as they are at 18 you're supposed to be better i guess but i i don't know it's just vanilla you're supposed to be more of the intangibles you're supposed to be more dependable defensive heavy strong smart you're not supposed to be as quick and dynamic maybe you're supposed to like the way that crosbie got his 90 points last year was not how he got his 90 points 10 years ago but he still got the 90 points so you know that evolution hasn't happened for him and yeah it's kind of it's tailed off and we know injuries are

a part of this and that's there's no doubt that that's relevant last year in particular this year we don't know sounds like he'll be back Saturday night did you guys get that impression too okay let's go to brad tree living on matthews clip 12 uh he's coming along chris he skated this morning Again, we've listed them as day-to-day. Obviously, not going to play tonight. I would suspect Thursday is probably not a possibility. Probably after Thursday, at least we get a little bit better sense of how things are responding.

I don't anticipate too, too long, but probably Tuesday and Thursday are out of the question at this point. Sam, they don't know. They don't know with some of this stuff. I don't think he knows the date and he's not telling you. Did he also on that clip comment about the, you know, the privacy or the secrecy around him? No, it was on the TANF clip. On the TANF clip.

But he was basically just like, McKee's a goon. We know how pissed off people get about us not being, us being a little gray with the injury stuff. Yeah. You mentioned it. Yeah. He called McKee. Yeah, basically he's like that idiot that gets to talk from four to five every day on Sportsnet. The guy that used to shut out.

Sam's not the only one. No. Yeah, it's not the only one. Yeah, maybe the only one with the platform. Let's listen to it. Yeah, sure. Clip 11 on TANF. Mark, and that's not to be cute.

I don't have timelines on a lot of the guys. Like we're, and I know we sometimes get criticized of saying we're being gray with return dates. Probably know a little bit more in the next week or so. And Chris, in terms of, you know, clarifying a little bit more of a clear return date, we miss Chris, you know. At the end of the day, the reality is it's hard to replace top people, right? Now, it comes back to, it comes back to what I said earlier is everybody goes through injuries. I'm not going to sit up here and make any excuses. We've got other people

that need to step in and fill those roles. But the reality is when you miss top people, those are big shoes to fill. So we miss Chris, but it's an opportunity for somebody else to dig in. You know, it shocks myself, and I'm about to say this. But have we under-discussed the Mitch Marner absence this year? You know, shocks me that we haven't discussed it more. But Michael Traikos wrote an article today about how it's tough to replace top players. So, you know, there is been a narrative that it hasn't really changed all that much, right? What hasn't changed?

Just the team or, you know, it shouldn't have been that much of a source. swing. But I'm starting to think, man, it was too big of a swing. And, okay, let's sit Mitch out to the sidelines for a second. You only can dress 12 forwards. You brought in a completely new third line, a complete line. Like, that's changing 25% of your forwards. Yeah, well, it's a big deal. It's a big deal. Okay, it's just not a little thing. So, you had Mitch Marner money, okay? Everybody sit there and said, okay, don't worry about it. It's 100 points.

We'll pick it up. Chelly will get this many points. This guy will get this and this guy will get this and you'll close it in and you got depth. And it just didn't happen, at least for the first 20 games. It just didn't happen. And it would be curious to know if it could have happened if the third line were effective, but they didn't, as of yet, haven't, it's not an effective. third line. So you took the Martin money,

he said, we're going to have good third line depth now and you still don't. And now you just don't have Mitch Marner. And now you don't have Mitch Marter. Forget about even how good defensively he was, but you've you got a, you got a it changed 25%. It's more, Kip, because Cowan's another

piece, so now you're four of 12. So, you know, you're just, it's too much. It was, it may have just been too much for the team to go from this contending Atlantic division. team to now scraping to get into a

playoff position. How many of a, I guess there's this a stat in baseball called war, which is wins above replacement. Like, if they had Mitch Martin in the lineup, how many more games would they have won? They've been a lot of one goal games. So you think like they're, you know,

two or three games better? They're getting a point or possibly two in Chicago with Mitch Martyr. Okay. And no one can really transport the puck like that guy. You didn't replace that. Willie is the closest thing you have to doing it.

But you had it on two lines before. Well, you had it with Mitch. Yeah. Right? And then you think you had it with Willie a little bit? I do. I think Willie's good at it. Yeah.

And now you barely have. John can't do it. John's strength, as we know, is six feet around. the blue paint. He's great, but he ain't great in a lot of other places 180 feet away.

It's not his thing. Matthews... Early in his career, Matthews could skate that thing for the neutral zone. It's not. He doesn't, he's not a,

he's not a guy that can control the neutral zone. Yeah. Now you have nobody. Yeah. Very few puck transporters. You know,

so let's go to Tree Living on the new guys on the team. Clips. Well, the new guys, I think they would tell you, and I'm not here to start singling out people, but I think there's a different level that they can get to, right? If you would have said at the beginning of the year and pick out a large majority of our roster, right, if we were sitting here in September and said, okay, we get to the 20 game mark, this is what my game should look like.

I think probably all of them would say it's under where the expectation, is or our expectation or their expectation is so they need to be better we've got to help them give them a path to be better we've got to continue to work with them to be better but certainly the expectation is they they can and will be better see I look at can and they will I look at the new guys and I question how how connected they are with the rest of the team and new Team B is the new guys. And how enthusiastic they are. Right?

And their enthusiasm. I don't get enough of them right now. I also hate the idea of lumping them together. Like those are three individual men who, you know, got new contracts and went to a new team. And like, everyone's talking about them like them. They're very different players. And the results have been very different to me. But I do think it's time to give them some opportunity.

like Dakota Joshua playing on the fourth line when you're down four injured forwards or something is probably not great and like Nick Wall played his first game where he got some minutes but and then is now out for multiple games right and you started with Matthias Machelli on the top line which is always been a recipe

for failure in Toronto is to thrust the new guy into the top line spot and say you know make this work I don't know there's no doubt that that group was supposed to be something for the team and is currently on pace for, I mean,

does any of them have two goals? We, so, can I, can I ask, like, what do you think, can a general manager coming out

and saying all the stuff he said in this market? And like, you know, kind of putting it on the players, putting it on the coaching staff, like, can that wake them up?

Like, can that be like an inspirational thing being like hearing our general manager go out there and be like, they're vanilla, they're, they're, they're not listening.

You mean the new guys? No, just the whole team in general. Like, can that be a wake-up call? Like, did he do it before the blues to make it look like he kicked him in the pants? I think he's been trying for weeks. Like, how many- Has been? No, I'm talking about Bruby.

Oh, I'm talking about Tr-Living. Tr-Living just going out and doing a media conference and saying all these things about his team. Like, is that going to wake him up? Is that the recipe? Maybe they just suck. Like I said earlier, I don't really know what today gained for him, other than new sound bites.

So we're off DNA now. Vanilla. And we're going to be vanilla. Like vanilla is going to be the new catch phrase. Today he created another one. Too much vanilla. Right? Sheldon keeps me like, that was mine.

He stole me. So outside of that, you think the players watch it and go, okay, now we really got to go. That's what I'm asking you. I don't think it works that way. So we heard that they had that big meeting before we did a review. It was probably Wednesday or something like that last week where they had a meeting. It was before the Bruins came.

And we heard that they got like a pretty good, whatever. I'm sure they've been told that if you can't figure it out, external people will be brought in to figure it out. Like that's pretty standard, I think, at the pro level. Like, you know, it doesn't have to be you guys. We can find other people for this. I have to imagine they've known their backs are against the wall for some of these guys. This is what they got. I think.

When players get to a certain point and there's a level of frustration, they're looking from either Craig Bruby or the coaching staff for way more than just try harder. Yeah. Okay? I always was. That's it. Like at the end of the day, so far watching some of the sound clips from Bruby

at practice the other day, there needs to be more than just. try harder and I don't know it's that's what they're going to have to go back and figure it out lead to the opposite if you're just continuously having a guy scream at you yeah you yeah you get tuned out yeah you get tuned out and that's and that to me listening to the press conference listening to all the stuff he said was him laying the groundwork for something like that you know did we play what i don't disagree of baroubi don't did we play that yet we yeah we did but we should go because we got We didn't do some other stuff on the other side of the break. Did we play the, yeah, he's, I have all the confidence in the world for now?

He said that. We played the one that he was talking about. But for now. Yeah. Right. Was there for now in there? There was a for now. I heard a for now today.

Play 15. Play clip 15, Derek. The one where. So you mentioned patience in terms of like making trades or tinkering with the roster, but in terms of whether you'd have to consider a coaching change, like how much patience do you have there. Yeah, I've got all the faith in our coach right now. So I don't look at that as the issue. When you go through things like this, understandably,

everything gets talked about and lucked about. My job right now is to support our coach, support his message, and support our group, right, and push the group. Okay, that's not it. I heard it for now today. I heard it right now. Sorry? He said right now.

Pretty close. Okay. Maybe it was right now. I thought I heard it for now. But it, what else? There's the classic vote of confidence. This has been a thing across sports for my whole life. You've got to give the vote first.

Anyways, we should go. Just turning to him as the gladiator. That's the. Yeah. All right. Let's take a quick break. Plenty more still on the Leaf Hour edition, including Jeremy Rutherford from the Athletic for a quick recap on another team that,

needs to get going. The St. Louis Blues. More when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey P.D.O. cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program.

Real Kipper and Born, Leaf Hour edition. fresh off the DVP, Justin Bourne. Hello, I have arrived. And our very own Sammy McKee. The Red Rocket was right on time this morning. This afternoon, bang, straight here on time. I've taken the subway many times. It takes the subway every single day.

Rips. But there's, on occasion, it'll just drop me like four stops before Union Station at Scotia Bank Arena. Figure it out. Listen, I'll never have a bad word to say about the TTC because they were covered my beloved Don There you go. There you go for sure.

Okay, in a couple of minutes, we'll welcome in Jeremy Rutherford, who's also covering a struggling hockey club in the St. Louis Blues. They go tonight. It is game night. All right, let's go to Jeremy Rutherford, to St. Louis Blues writer for the athletic.

Jeremy, thanks for joining us. How are you? Yeah, Justin Nick, how are you doing? We're well, thanks. Let me just start by saying, you know, I'm not sure how much. much you know of the leaf situation so far coming in or how much you've watched from afar. But this is the second team now for Craig Barrowby and whether or not there's some

similarities that you can see from even from afar on a veteran team, underperforming, uh, underwhelming goal tending or a D that's, uh, taking on water. I mean, can you draw any parallels of what, Craig Brube, he's gone from from a St. Louis situation to now a Toronto one? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I do pay a little extra attention to the Leafs because of Craig Bruby being in St. Louis and now with the Leafs. And when he got the job, I felt like he was a guy, if there was anybody out there who would be able to come in and kind of get the players' attention in Toronto. Obviously, you know, that hasn't been the case, especially recently.

You know, obviously the roster's changed a little bit with with Marner leaving. But, you know, he was always a guy in St. Louis who could command attention and build confidence. Those were really two of his strong suits. And, you know, I know he seems to be a laid-back, mild-mannered guy, but he knows what he wants, and typically he can get the players to understand that. And from what I gather, you know, watching from afar and then being in Toronto today at the rink and talking to people about the situation, it just hasn't come to fruition this year. So, you know, I guess we all get the same questions that you guys have in terms of why that

isn't happening. Some of the newer players that have come in haven't produced, and now I know there's some injuries, and then you've had the situation with Joseph Wall. So it hasn't come together. And just like in St. Louis, guys, 10 games isn't a long sample size, 15, but once you start to get to, you know, 20, 25 and get to American Thanksgiving, you're talking about, you know, what's going wrong here.

Well, I'm torn on talking more blues or Boreubi. I guess I do want to follow up on Buru here because we are in the Leafs Hour. And just did anything change? at the end of his time with the blues. I know the Kyru thing was in the media. But, like, he is not a particularly... He's not hard on his players in the media. In fact, he goes easy on pretty much everyone.

Was that true there? And did it change it all towards the end? Yeah, it's a good question. Hopefully I can give you the best answer possible here. You know, I remember talking to Oscar Sunquist, who's back on the team after leaving for a little while. He's back on the blues. And he had said that when Craig Bruby came in and took over for Mike O

and they won the Stanley Cup that year, that Craig Bruby was intimidating. And what he said, you listen, like you listen to every word. And that over the years he seemed to soften a little bit and that they didn't look at him the same way as they did when he came in. And part of that could be that the Blues had much of the same roster for the next several years. And so I guess his players got to know him that that became less and less of a fear factor. So, you know, I don't know the situation in Toronto if that's happened, you know, in the short time that he's, that he's been with the Leafs. But, you know, I do remember Oscar Sunquist

saying that, and that was kind of the feeling. But he was just always able to keep the confidence up, build the confidence. And I think when you're losing, and that's what the blues are going through right now. Same thing with Toronto, that, you know, he was always good at that. And so I find it difficult to believe he's having trouble in that area as it seems to be the case. You're listening to Jeremy rather for St. Louis Blues writer for the Athletics. So if we're talking about the Blues they're a team that I focused on at the beginning

thinking that they could contend especially watching them in that first round push the Winnipeg Jets to a series where we still wonder how the heck they didn't win it. Where are we today with the Blues and how close was

Doug Armstrong to really changing the makeup last trade deadline and the decision to not and where they stand today. It seems like he's right back where he was just prior to the deadline. Yeah, just in the Blues 19 games, I think the feeling looking back to that post-4 nation's face-off run has kind of changed. It was, okay, this team's turn the corner.

Jim Montgomery has their attention. Some of the players who you thought might be done have found a spark and are playing well. they had the best record in the league post four nations and like you said nearly upset winnipeg but now after the start they've gotten off to this year you look back and think you know were the issues masked because they did go on that run and and maybe that was the blip was what they did after the four nations and now we're seeing the team that they were prior to the four nations you know I think when it comes down to it guys when you look at the st. Louis blues they're one of those teams that's trying to compete and contend right now and also go through the retool and bring in the Snuggaroods

and the Doriske's and the younger players and the prospects. They've got a number one first pick the past three or four years that they're excited about. But it's difficult to do that, as you guys know. And so you see aging veterans like a Braden, Shannon, Justin Falk on the team and that you got 20, 21-year-olds and Duvorski and Snuggrood that are promising guys for the future. And so that's kind of where the blues are right now, but you felt like after what they did at the end of last year, they could keep doing, serving both masters like they had in the past in terms of being competitive and also grooming for the future. And they just haven't been able to do that. There's been many issues, but number one has been the goaltending and the defense.

They don't spend a lot of time in their defensive zone, but when they do, it's typically in the back of their net. Well, I'll just last one for me, follow up on that goaltending thing. Everyone assume that Jordan Bennington win the Four Nations face off. He's going there. almost regardless but boy is he pushing the limits of that almost what's what's going on there this season yeah it really is well at first it was uh joel ho for the backup he was the guy who was struggling the most out of the two goaltenders uh but then jordan bennington you have to put him in the same category and it's it's it's hard to comprehend because if i had a guy who i wanted to win a game

just like in the four nations you know i think that jordan bennington's in that conversation but he's got to build his case uh to be the team canada goalie for the olympics and he certainly hasn't done that this year, you know, but for people who haven't watched the blues, game in and game out, it hasn't just been him. It hasn't just been the goaltending. Poor defensive play, and that includes the forwards in front of him. But certainly for those who have been watching, Jordan Bington hasn't been himself. And, you know, you can't always fall back on that, well, you put him on the Olympic roster. He's going to play well and be the winner that you think he can be in those critical situations because over the long stretch of the couple months of this season, he has not been

that guy. Benny's scheduled to start tonight? Yes, yep. Okay, well, we'll watch that closely. Jeremy, thanks for joining us, man. Really appreciate it. Yep, anytime, guys, thanks. Thanks, have a good one.

Jeremy Rutherford from the Athletic covering the St. Loose Blues. That was a really interesting answer on Brubay. About the softening over time? Just how it's intimidating at the start and having that kind of whittled away. Because you can wear out. And you need, you need, you need,

to play different cards for sure and I think he's trying but right now it just seems like he's just focusing on like I said like try harder like effort right now he's down to effort more so than execution but I think he always was that coach like that was all and but when guys are like oh man I better or I'm going to get bench scratched traded cut whatever let me uh let me let's just just go back to Brad Tree Living yesterday. Today? Today, sorry, today. The more I think about it,

doing it on a game day, I would have waited after tonight to do it. To see what you got. Just on the chance that if the boys put in a good effort, everything that I said today, I say tomorrow,

Would have been a little bit more... You start saying, I think it's coming, though. We saw it a bit last night. Yeah, it would it just give you a little bit of momentum. What if you lose? Well, then... Wait till you win to do it? No, no.

If you lose, then you still have a chance to... A lot of the same stuff you could have said. Calm the noise down. Still, you could still calm the noise down. And at the end of the day, you know, whether you needed to do it yourself or you could have leaked it to Elliot or Drager or Frank, that Barubi's not going anywhere.

he's not going anywhere right that could have been they're their credible people with their sources you could have leaked that just get it out there boys chief's not going anywhere and that could have served a purpose too but i would have liked tonight as an opportunity to have a little bit of momentum i wonder though like all this stuff we've talked about is valid but they really are missing their top center their top three acquisition their top Three centers, if you will, Lotton, Wa. You know, like, it's going to be tough to get a win at all against anyone in any circumstance when that's the case for any team. Can I present the flip side of why you do it today?

Because you come out and you say all these things and then they galvanize with a banged up group against one of the worst teams in the league and they win. You're like, see? Okay. I did it. I mean, there's. It was all they needed was a kick from old tree. There's, there's, yeah, there's many ways to. look at this for sure

I don't think they're going Maybe they don't put this much thought But maybe they're like I don't know It's time to talk we talked Whatever I don't know We'll see how it goes But

These games are Six games in a row man It's a lot of games Like where's Where is the cutoff now For you guys In terms of Like they're gonna stick to the plan

And they're going to be patient And they're going to be There's no bolt a lightning trade or anything like that to come and save it he all admitted that but where is the cutoff i think is it is it tonight Thursday and Saturday and now you're into next week if you're all of a sudden eight and 12 is it i think in sports you have to react to small sample sizes even if it's just bad luck or bad whatever and it's going to change i think you have to react i remember we had a playoff series when i was with

Sheldon Keefe, and we were getting killed through the neutral zone. He changed our neutral zone for a check in game two. Something we hadn't done all year, he changed it. And ended up being the right thing. Next game, we shut him down, whatever. To me, it's like, you don't have enough time left in this season to see if, oh, they'll sort it out. We'll just go 15 more games. It's too late.

Game 35 is too late. So I think pretty soon here, Kip, is too late. I don't know. Can I present you a scenario that the Toronto Maple East lose to the Montreal Canadians on hockey night in Canada for their eighth straight loss. Tough to go into that one. Say, well, we play Wednesday. We'll try to get in that time by trying harder.

It's getting this. Yeah, these three games are massive. You know, I was actually thinking today, is it possible in today's NHL to do like the type of trade? I think the Leafs have done it. The Islanders have done it where you trade like seven guys. I don't mean off one team, but it's like four, one way three. Remember those old trades?

If the money adds up. Yeah, you're like, we just need to be different. Well, Trillian's like, you can't just bring 15 new guys in here. Well, have we considered trying it? You know, you could do, 15 new guys. The blues suck, too. Let's just switch the bottom six and see what happened, boys. Listen, the saving grace in all of this may be just, like, outside of a Maple Leaf bubble

and just take a look at that east. Yeah. It is a dog's breakfast. I sent the lines of the Boston Bruins to Justin Bourne yesterday, and I said to him, if there's one thing that gives you hope for the Toronto Maple Leaf season, this is the team that's currently in first place. First place coming at you with Riley Tuft, Sean Corrali and Michael Eisenmont. Yeah.

You know, it's like, okay, Minton, Castellick, and Geno, Steve's Blue Mel, Zaka. You know, it's like, come on. Yeah, Habs. Lock it off. Habs have lost four in a row. Ottawa can't get a save. It's like there's no really great teams in the Atlantic. All that's done is bought you time to sort your problems out,

but you've got to sort your problems out. You got to sort them out. And because the bottom feeders now are pushing up and the top ones are coming down, including Florida, Tampa, and Toronto. Like, I'm just guessing right now, but you could get a wild card spot at 91. 88.

Oh, that's good. Can you just see a Florida team getting 100% healthy for game one of the playoffs? and just like big dogging everyone, putting their paw on everyone's head, be like, you stay down. You know who that's going to be? That's going to be the Florida Panthers.

We'll get one of the wild card spots. Barcove will come back and they'll just like run through again. And they'll draw the Bruins and they'll be like, that's enough. Yeah, it's time for you to lose. You know, like you're, you're, you're two or three games. Honest to God. If they went, if the Leafs can find a way to win tonight,

Thursday and Saturday, it's completely changes the complex. depending on obviously what other teams do. If I gave you $1,000 to put on one team in the Atlantic to win the East, or win the Atlantic division this year, where would you put that $1,000? Panthers.

To win the Atlantic? They're not getting those guys. I don't care. I'm not, I'm going to the casino and pickering and I'm putting it on red. If I have $1,000. I'm not touching any team. You can't pick one team.

Tampa? I guess maybe. Probably the Canadians. I don't know. They can't get a save. I have no clue. Great question. Who's the favorite?

Like I said. I'll look it up for a game time. Alpo. Alpo? Dog food. Dogs breakfast. Dogs breakfast. That eastern side is Alpo right now for me.

Yeah. It's like Carolina is far and away the best team, not even sure who's that. No, no. There's only one great team. right now, and that's Colorado. And boy, look at the gold differentials. Look at the gold differentials in the east. Zero, minus

two, minus three, minus one, minus one, minus one. We go national next. Oh!