Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Brewing Controversy

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin the show recapping the Maple Leafs' comeback win against the Lightning on Saturday night, Sheldon Keefe's decision to pull Ilya Samsonov and put in Joseph Woll during the game, the successful outcome from Toronto's backup, better showings from their defensive pairs and Max Domi's passing strengths. Then, the guys take a trip to the AHL and debate why Nick Robertson won't have a spot on the main roster and look at his trade value (39:50).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we are real kipper and born on sports at 590 the fan sports at 360 and sports net plus from 4 to 6 p.m eastern and remember you can always get our podcast, Spotify, iTunes, wherever you download your pods. And remember to text us at 5959. Always love to hear your comments on the show. As far as we are concerned in this hour of Leaf edition, the Leafs rally from two goals, staring at their first three-game losing streak

until matthew nye's and max domi hook up and uh leaf fans at least enjoy the rest of their weekend nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee and for jen roll nick is Frank the Tank. Oh, what's up, Frankie? Frank, welcome aboard. And Derek Brandeo pushing all the right buttons. All right. You are ready to rip them this morning

or on our show on Monday. Yeah. Till about seven and a half, eight minutes to go in the third period Saturday night. Were you not?

No. No? No. You saw positive down 3-1. Yeah. You felt like you had enough still to say it's okay. I actually think I wrote in our group chat, I think it's important to note that we were still positive about this game

before the goals came. Really? I may have. You were? Okay. Sammy, how about you? Were you ready to rip them today? No.

I thought, I mean, I was ready to eviscerate Ilya Samsonov, but other than that, no, it was good. I thought they played great. Did you not? There's still parts of, you know, especially with no secondary scoring, it puts a ton of pressure on being a lot better in your own zone. We saw a couple breakdowns, but I did like the sense of urgency. I liked the push that I haven't seen throughout training camp.

All of that was good, and it did give it a little bit of a playoff atmosphere. Yeah, great game, right? Like a Saturday night. An entertaining game you're right coaches may not say it was perfect but sitting there on a saturday night that's a that's a fun hockey match overtime was the best the leafs have looked in overtime since i have lived in this city which is like 12 years yeah it's nice to see the puck the whole time well yeah it's nice for them to put out david camp because apparently austin matthews isn't capable of winning a draw ever so they have to risk having david camp out there for

however long because they don't think he can win i hate it you you may think the key's an idiot you may have also noticed that john cooper had luke glenn denning on the other side so it's a theory these guys have they're all overthinking it they're all overcoaching it i think nuts you know what i think i think you're right. Thank you. Austin Matthews is more like a great face-off guy. Put him on the air. He wasn't so good on Saturday night. 28%, I think. But he does it in other

games, too, and it kind of drives me nuts. Yeah. Alright. Sammy brought up the Samsonov. Apparently, it's just all his fault Saturday night. Can I just say, from a leaf fan perspective how incredibly enjoyable it is that the tampa bay lightning have now a reputation of blowing leads to the leafs is that fun for you it's really great i can like i you know it's

been a long fandom of cheering for a team that's number one reputation is blowing big leads to teams. And now the Leafs, they kind of, the lightning are looking over their shoulder in these third periods. I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Wow, I mean, it's happening. I get it. Every game there. I get what you're saying, but there are times Saturday night

where you sit there and go there's still a pretty good team and that tampa yeah power play i disagree off the charts he's a freak the movement off the uh the power play for tampa is off the charts they are excellent offensively but they are leaky defensively they are not the same team defensively that they've been in the years past like i thought they're awesome offensively clearly but they're they're hurting on the back i think the mcdonough hole oh never been filled absolutely huge yeah huge loss for them yeah perbix to han's not great radish still kind of learning they've they're they're okay back there but yeah they a couple of their forwards are pretty unbelievable kucherov scoring those you know the the goal and the assist well the two goals and the assist like

he's special right but he's also on the ice when tavara well the two goals and the assist like he's special right but he's also on the ice when tavara scores the ot winner and he's he makes his mistakes the other way too yeah yeah um all right where do we want to start with a kipper's clipper you want to go to uh an overall feel for uh the guys getting rewarded saturday night yeah let's go to sheldon keith on that one clip one Just that we stayed with it. I was happy to see our guys get rewarded because I thought we played a good game. I thought even in the first period, I thought we played a good period. The goalie playing the way that he was and Tampa playing as hard as they were,

you thought maybe the time was going to run out for us. But like I said, I was glad to see the guys get rewarded. I thought we played a good game here. All right. For me, it's simple. Yes, we'll get into Nyes and Max Domi for sure. But this one's real simple here. And I give Sheldon Keefe a lot of credit.

It's not an automatic. You pull a goalie at 3-1. I get three on four. I get that. but there's a lot of coaches out there that that won't do that I think uh I don't know who do we watch uh Vladar Calgary in Detroit yeah not a good game by Vladar by any stretch but 3-1 he stays in there yeah Sheldon says no what did you make of the goal Samsonov gave up to start the game so you got the Kucherov kind of wristy one-timer the Alex Barboulet backdoor and then the Kucherov one-timer yeah uh I did not like if if you go back and watch just the push from post to post on the second slap shot, he's got no power.

He's just nowhere near the playoff. That's the only place the puck is going. I know it's a great shot. People are going to be like, that's a heater from Cooch, but he's nowhere near that. He's nowhere near anything of last year. You don't think generally he's pushing strong like he's looking no no he's been horrible since day one in camp he didn't have a good exhibition

games he didn't he hasn't had a good start i something's not right with samson off i don't what is it his head is it his focus is it the fact that he essentially took the job away from Matt Murray and now he feels like now he looks at a wall and goes, I'm the number one guy here. Uh-oh, if that's what he thought. I mean, how many has it been? 13 or 14 goals in four games that he's played? Like it's not.

Maybe I need to buy some glasses. It hasn't been nearly good enough like it just no plain and simple you can't really you can whine about a goal here maybe it wasn't his fault here it wasn't but 14 and four games have gone past them it's just not the good enough standard for a team that's hoping to have cup aspirations wall goes in and all of a sudden he makes 29 of 29 saves he's the first star of the game probably for the leafs i know nize was given the belt by his teammates but it's four or five one without him oh he was excellent it's over the game's over without right they actually went on the power play right after that right when they went up three one and he made a couple of big saves on the power play and i was like okay you know they're getting to stay in this game and play because this guy he you know what word i like for his movement is economical like

he doesn't you know he's just like when mckenna thank you he's you know like he it's not too much or too big he's just quiet like i i thought just a great game from wall and it makes their goaltending position interesting now okay let's go to shon Keefe on why he pulled Samsonov at 3-1. Sheldon Keefe, clip six. Decision there, you know, the puck's going in. It's still relatively early. Can you kind of take us through the thought process? You can't let in three goals in four shots.

That's it. That's a swipe, isn't it? I don't disagree with him. It's not always as simple as that, right? Like, if the goals are all team defense faults or whatever, but he wants one. I think we had a chat in our group chat as well that, like, even though those are probably

pretty good goals, you're allowed to make great saves. Yeah. Right? There's no... I hated the first one. I mean, he makes a great shot, but you're staring him down. He's at the top of the circle, and you're looking right at him. There's no screen in front of him, and it beats him clean.

It's not like that one kissed off the post either. It kind of hit the middle of the net, yeah. So the other two you can quibble about, but, yeah, it was a deserved ball. Last year he's got to prove to the world, right? Washington Capitals kicked him to the curb. They won't even offer him a contract, which essentially made him a walk out the door for free. Yeah. UFA.

Leaf signed him. Matt Murray's already here with his two Stanley Cups. And you were told that you'll have an opportunity to take the net. And it was shaped up pretty well for him to make him feel like. And I went the opposite. I'm like two-time Stanley Cup champion, Matt Murray, that's your number one goalie.

And that's the way it should be told. But they said, no, you're right off the bat. And he did. He came back and he had good numbers and albeit he didn't get the the jack campbell treatment from the edmonton oilers with 25 million over five but that's looking like a really good toronto maple leaf decision right now in one year going one year yeah well but let's say you're right, and it's a good decision, and it's a one-year thing.

All of a sudden, would you not be worried that what does that mean then? Because if he's not good enough, Joseph Wall, again, we've been over this a lot, but he's played 15 games in the NHL or 16. Like, I understand he's looked great, but. Well, that's why I think Leaf fans should kind of calm down a little bit here. On Wall. And I don't think by any stretch even Sheldon Keefe telling the hockey world that it's unacceptable to let in three goals on four shots

is completely writing him off here. He's going to have ample time to still straighten out his game. Yeah, they'll let him try to be. Well, for sure. Five games into the season. You want to stress out Joseph Wall right now? No. He's going to get the start Tuesday.

I don't know if it was first perceived that, ooh, Joseph Wall has got the net two games in a row. And then after, I think Sheldon may have said, no, it was the scheduled start off the bat. Yeah. And he was always going to start there. So does that alleviate the feeling of Joseph Wall stealing the net already from him?

It does for Ilya Samsonov, if that's what you're trying to do, to put him at ease a little bit. Let's listen to clip five, Derek, and you guys can hear what he says in this, and then we'll go after that. Clip five. Well, we'll see.

He was scheduled to play in Washington anyways, but he's definitely going to go next game, and he'll just keep building and stacking up good days. That has been the message to him, and to me he took advantage of every practice shot and rep that he had all week and looked great. I think kind of sent a message to the group that he's hungry, and because of that work, he was ready for tonight,

even though he wasn't supposed to play. So that's a great sign for a young player, and I'm really happy for him. And I guess the hope would be that then he pushes Sam Stoth a little bit too? Well, he's pushing. That's it. That's what you want. You want everybody pushing one another, and that's what we've got. Oh, he's pushing. That's it. That's what you want. You want everybody pushing one another, and that's what we've got. Oh, he's pushing.

Yeah. He left the door open with a very sound effort and hopefully a win that it would be a no-brainer that he's going to carry that right into Dallas on Thursday. Wow. Yeah. Well well or is that a scheduled he pitches a shout out he they they leave ov goal list they leave washington with a sound win you're you're gonna go back to a scheduled start for samson i think so right

like how quick in the season do we want to be saying abandoned plans new starter it's game seven like give it a press up here i don't know i you know i've i watched that game on saturday night and the leafs come back they tie it and i find myself i legitimately said to myself well that's a big point for the leafs i did too because look at this like it's maybe not walk into the playoffs anymore it's it was a bumpy start here and just look at this division yeah like it's maybe not walk into the playoffs anymore it's it was a bumpy start here and just look at this division yeah like it's not a crappy division anymore it's not just walk into the playoff scenario anymore you need to win and you got you can't be like maybe the plan does have to go out the window i okay i'm leaning a little bit more with sammy

as well only from the fact that uh it's taken a while for them to kind of number one get some continuity out of uh their depth scoring and number two uh the same could be said about their uh defensive pairs which i thought it's settled in tampa bay like brody once again looked like an nhl defenseman that's nice isn't it team d is a lot better when he plays well oh it's a world different yeah he's really important and really yeah geo with klingberg didn't kill you fine third pair you know and they this is definitely this is almost the only way to assemble these pairs it It seems to be the right way. It just feels so early, guys,

to be grinding over points for playoffs. But you're playing in these division games, and you think Detroit will talk about Detroit more later, but do you think they're a fluke? Do you think they're going to crash back down to earth? Yes. You do? What does crash mean like i think they're

a 90 point team they can win they can make the playoffs i think 100 i think february march you're going to play meaningful games what about ottawa meaningful games what about buffalo i don't know about uh buffalo what about the old uh boston bruins that are uh they keep winning again the team that you wrote off no i, I would never do that. I'll be honest. They didn't look good last night. I tortured myself and watched the Ducks play

60 minutes last night. Boston got their point, but ee. I just, I think that they're... Five and oh. What's that? Five and oh. No, five and oh is good.

They're very good. They're very good. I was saying last night they looked bad. I think the Leafs are going to have to kind of grind over these early season points more than we've thought of

in the years past. Like, the division's better. It's just flat out better. Yeah. No, that's a fair point. They haven't had, even since the beginning of training camp, they haven't had a ton to feel good about. So if there's a small stretch this week, they do.

I'm not sure if you want to throw it back into a goalie that's really got some cleanup to do in aisle five. Interesting. He might be a guy that needs motivation. Like, needed their last year sorry he needed that push and that made him better let's listen to the other keith clip on joe wool just so we sort of know where he stands on his two goaltenders number four outstanding these are not easy not easy times right to come into a game like that and really there's no no margin for error for him to stand his ground the way that he did. It was great.

And he's been great. I thought he played well in the start that he's had. And practice this week, he was outstanding and competitive. And to see him step in and do the job for our guys tonight was really huge. Another young guy coming up in a big moment for us. So you guys kind of giggle at practice. We're talking about practice?

Yeah, we are. He loves this guy. No, no, let me tell you something about practice. Talking about practice. The great goalies, I don't care what it is, they don't want to be scored on. I could not agree more. They hate it.

Sean Burke, it didn't matter what team I was on in the NHL. Mike Richter, Glenn Healy, they don't want to be even embarrassed in practice. Practice. Okay? And there's some goalies that don't have that. If you've got a goalies that don't have that if you got a goalie that treats a practice goal like a an nhl goal yeah from beginning to end of practice

it's a good thing we had a college hockey goalie he ended up he played i think played a couple games for the islanders nathan lawson but he used to like if you would score on him when he was taking another shot you're shooting it from the other corner, he'd shoot it back at you. Like, he didn't want pucks in his net. That was not. And I like that level of competitiveness. Like, some people found it silly or find that silly. Not the game.

We're talking about practice, man. A couple of sticks in the shins, you know. Always get up some good, really competitive goalies. If he's got that, it's noticeable. That's why I think Sheldon made note of it yeah because not all goalies are like that no definitely not actually a lot of backup goalies don't like to play goal and like to leave on practice and wall was talking about it last week i think when that he's got some sort of contest going with matthews and i think one of the other guys that or matt and

i's maybe that they like if you score on they've got like a contest at the end of practice where they shoot. Yeah, we used to do that for Gatorades and stuff like that. But if you're picking Nyes and Austin Matthews to go against, you must have a lot of confidence in yourself. High aspirations. All right, outside of goaltending, the other major storyline for the Toronto Maple Leafs is didn't need Matthews or Marner to dig them out of a 3-1 hole.

It came off of the depth scoring led by Matthew Nyes and our boy, the show's boy, Max Domi. So let's go to Sheldon on using his third line more. I made the decision to go down to three lines. In fact, I actually thought Holmberg gave the fourth line a lot tonight too. I thought those guys were good. I just sort of lost them with some of the special teams and then just playing from behind. But I got in a three-line rhythm,

and it was because I felt that line was coming. It was giving us good shifts, and I needed to use them because obviously, you know, Matthews and Tavares, those lines of minutes were really climbing. So we definitely needed to rely on others, and, you know, that's progress for our team, to be able to rely on others and have them come through in a big moment.

Listen, I can appreciate Fraser Minton and the effort and the looks uh but it's over yeah it's just over just yes send them back couldn't agree okay it's it's done it's over homework comes in stabilizes the bottom six at center he's a big big, strong guy. He's a man. Should never have been sent down to begin with, but I get it. You want to send a message. You want to create something, a competitive feel. I didn't like his camp.

That's all to me. Listen, he belongs up here. So yell at him. Make him do wallies. Make him do whatever. Whatever. But that's his spot it really was the perfect storm of like minton played really well at the same time holmberg disappointed them they're like we'll try something so the other thing too is you know i i'm not sure

like it it stabilized uh camp too okay and that was excellent for me and yeah me too much better yeah and i don't know did camp go hold on for a second this 19 year old he's got my third line position are you kidding me right now and i don't know if he was soaking or behind the scenes he was pissed off but now you got holmberg at four camp at at three, go to work now. Yeah. You got men now playing center. Kampf creates the, he's better on the draws. He creates a turnover that leads to the game-winning goal.

Like he's a little bit more involved. He plays almost 15 minutes finally, and we've been talking about his time. Like all of a sudden for the first time this year, Nyes, Kampf, Domi is the third line. At least you can squint and go, I can see that. You know, like, nice. And Kampf can defend a little bit.

Yeah. A little offense there. But it started as Jarnkrok, Kampf, and Domi. And Sheldon was just... I got to ask you this, guys, you guys' question. Like, the amount that he was shuffling in that game, in game four... Looking for some.

Is it good or bad that much shuffling in game four of the season like does that you know you're putting together the kneelander matthews marner in game four yeah it's not great is that a good that's is that bad i don't know i want to ask your opinion i think it's bad that you need to do it yeah not that he's doing it yeah i agree with you yeah i agree with you and it's just uh i think it's just a characteristic that i noticed with sheldon is that you know there he he has a quick boiling point oh yeah he will not just go quietly into the night with the same lines doing their thing yeah he will toss it in that place and i don't know sometimes it's okay like i again i give him credit pulling samson off yeah three

one that's a gut instinct that a lot of coaches need that fourth goal they need to go down for one before they they they yank and he he said no not tonight when it worked for him yeah one thing we've talked about in the show is how the only thing a coach really has control of in terms of manipulating players or pushing them is ice time and he doesn't really bench anyone we don't see that very often but what he does do is the lines. And he'll shuffle you up and he'll shuffle you down. It's not a benching necessarily, but it lets you know where he thinks you are on that night. Maybe there's some value in that.

Okay. You want to start with Nyes or Domi first? I think Domi. Yeah, I think that's a bigger story. Okay. Two elite passes. Yeah. If we think he was passing to not camp on the first one.

But anyway. Both moving his feet. Yes. Right? That's it. And he is, his strength for me has always been he's able to pass the puck. Yeah.

No, the point you made before that, though, about moving his feet, really good to see him get a puck and go. Like, skate with it, carry it. He's a talented guy. Have the puck for a little bit. I thought that early in the season he was quick to unload it and look for someone and try to make a play.

Well, Simmer on the broadcast, just it was the broadcaster's dream because he pointed out a time early in the game where he did a stop up, and he's like, I'd like to see him go. When he's at his best, he's really taking the puck north and really skating fast yeah and then he does it literally later that period and he sets up the tying goal and it's like see that's what happens when you move your feet and it's true it was perfect but also sam it happened in the same shift where he kind of got caught from behind but he started to move his feet and the next time he was like ah that was effective and he went and made the pass and uh yeah nice berries and there is something to be

said about just getting this guy out of town on the road i think so yes for sure you're not the blueprint for as much as he's been around and he's lived it as a kid and now as an NHL player, listen, it still can weigh on you. I think getting on the road and just playing, just skating, just passing, that's more the Max Domi. And do you think the points here will help him loosen up or feel like he's contributing, like a positive? Oh, for sure.

Absolutely. loosen up or feel like he's contributing like a positive for sure absolutely and again i you don't ever envision him being a point of game guy and you don't ever envision him being locked in on any particular line but he needs to be one of those guys that can play up and down the lineup and then still be a threat out there and find a way to contribute. And I think it worked to a T Saturday night for him. Yeah. And he looked good before the goal. That was the key.

Like, it was just noticeably his best game before he even set up both those goals. So, do you want to hear a key phone, Domi? Okay, let's go. Yeah, I'm hoping it allows him to just relax. Because, yeah, to me, that's the biggest takeaway in the game. First of all, I thought Max had a great game even before making those plays. But you could just see pucks came to him in good spots. He moved his feet and does what he does.

He's a playmaker. And it was great to see those guys connect it was great to see a guy like nice get get a couple an important time um but yeah for max to come through for the team and that in that time was huge yeah you know when you're talking about third and fourth lines in general the most important thing when you're out there is you get out of your own zone as clean as you can and as quick as you can. And that's where they've struggled, I think, early, is that they've collectively spent way too much in their own zone.

Yeah. I do think that having camp with those guys will allow Keefe to trust them a bit more because that's an important thing. You're looking for the coach to show trust that he can put you on the ice in your own zone because once you got camp down there you generally have three guys defending hard and they can handle the wing so good start for that line and then obviously nye's getting the goal getting the two goals getting the belt from the team

pretty significant uh first step for a guy who had been pointless through four games i had no issues from what I've seen out of this guy with going into Saturday night pointless. I mean, we went and watched the game live against Chicago, but there are still, if you really focus on this guy, there's things out there that you still really like about him, and just physically for me, he is such a presence out there. He wins pucks.

He can dump it in deep and then be the first guy to go get it himself and start protecting the puck or a cycle around the posts. And I just think he's just a force out there. I think he's got a chance to be a pretty, I don't want to throw a throw out special player yeah but he can be one of those guys like he can be a game breaker a difference maker for sure a guy that while the other team is keying on your four superstars scores a big goal and you know this comeback is indicative of coming from somewhere else once in a while would be nice like a chris crider can he one day turn himself into a 40 goal scorer or is he um uh uh

uh uh drawing a blank on tampa bay's uh uh calorn calorn right but i think he's i think he's got more skill than calorn i think he shoots the puck better than clorn yeah right first goal he scored was so all world palat palat yeah yeah one of those guys that you're while you're worried about sam kross and kucherov and point one of those guys buries you and instrumental guys to win stanley cups yeah yeah that's that's the element i think nize is given the leafs you know i don't believe in jinxies, so I'm going to say it. What he needs to do is play 80 hockey games or something. He needs to stay healthy this year, play a full season. Not that he's typically been hurt, but the more he plays,

the more he'll be able to contribute, I think, come playoffs. How dare you? You're sitting beside the number one jinxy guy. For him, it's just like how do you manage 82 games, right? How do you manage three and four nights and how your body reacts to it? And like this is all new. He made one bad decision. He moved in with Tavares and kids.

What are you doing? Don't live with a bunch of kids. It's not going to help. Don't do that. He played just under 15, which for me is the perfect amount. Maybe one more. I think it was 14.55 he ended up with. But to me, the two guys that we've been talking about at nauseam

about their ice time, both of them play more and they scored two huge goals more. Let's ask Sheldon Keefe what he thought most impressed him about Matthew Nye. I think just the fact that he hasn't got down on himself. I don't think it's probably hasn't gone the way that he would want it to. We've got a lot of guys probably in that boat, but he hasn't gotten down on himself. He's just kind of stayed with it, pretty even keel.

Us in our game today, just kind of staying with it, not getting too high or too low or anything like that. And when this moment comes, be ready for it. And he was. See, he strikes me as a guy that'll never get down on himself to the point where it's really detrimental to him. Yeah. He just kind of does his thing.

I think he has some idea of how good either he already is or how good he can be. And if it's not, you might think it's somebody else's fault. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I don't think he's going to be calling out coaches like Evander Kane, and we'll get into that later on in the show. I don't think he'll ever pull that one off. But he would quietly

seems to me as a guy says, hey, you want some production? Get me out there a few more minutes. Yeah. God, I wish I had that level of confidence at any point in my life. That sounds amazing. Yeah. But I think he knows what he's capable of doing physically, offensively,

Which goal do you like more? The skate to stick? Yeah, skate to stick, I think, was a real goal scorers. Stuck with it. They're guys. And it's a big goal. Tie the game against one of your bitter rivals in their barn. This is why you love a guy who's played big games.

He's played in playoffs. He's played in the Frozen Four in that building. They're guys where skate to stick can like... And a broken nose? Like a flash. Look like a flash and it blows up. Yeah. And then there's guys that can actually take it,

slow down, bring their heart rate down, and just have enough patience to do what you want to do and he did that in that moment i would say he didn't force it yeah he didn't take a a wild swing at it coming in he had enough he just slowed the game between his ears in that exact moment that's a superstar trait like that i'm not saying nize is a superstar but that trait is that's what matthews does that's a superstar trait. I'm not saying Nize is a superstar, but that trait is. That's what Matthews does. That's what Nylander and Marner, those few guys, we're spoiled watching Toronto all the time. Don't take this the wrong way.

Oh, boy. But there's moments when I watch Nize that I see a shred of Matthews in him, like a shred. I'm not saying he's anywhere near clearly the player, but you can tell that these guys have been brought up in the same development system. there's little things that both of them do that kind of remind me of each other once in a while i guess they're both from arizona yeah that stuff but like not i don't think i've ever had that fast twitch no like austin does so the

nhl came out with uh the nhl.com slash edge today which is like their some of their fancy data stuff sam and i were talking before the game. Matthews is an interesting guy because he doesn't hit any of the top speeds of the fastest guys, but he gets up. So 20 miles per hour is like a threshold. They measure how many times per year a guy skates faster than that, which is so fast. That is really fast. And Matthews has done it nine times in five games,

which is like in the top percentile, top one or two. So to your point about fast twitch, he can get there for a big rig. I don't know that Nyes is going to be like that, but it is something to keep an eye on if he gets older, comfortable. If he can find that level, there's definitely more goals waiting for him. Matthews did it, I think, on the first shift

that he had in Tampa. Burned Hedman? Yeah, it just feels like his speed sneaks up. Did he put it off the post? Yeah, inside post. He pulled Johansson across and went across the other way and didn't talk. But he sneaks up on guys with his speed sneaks up. Did he put it off the post? Yeah, inside post. He pulled Johansson across and went across the other way and didn't talk. But he sneaks up on guys with his speed, I think.

Yeah. It's because of how big he is. Yeah, they had some good looks. Marner, I thought, set up a ton of guys. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think they had at least 20, like, high-danger chances. Like, that line was all over him.

Johansson looked good for a guy we kind of gave a hard time to. At least had 52 shots, 54 or something. So, yeah, I mean, like I said, even before they came back, I was like, there's some good things going on here. Yeah, Johansson, I thought, was going to, you know, win the George Vesna Saturday night. He was that good. At least they're really good at making those guys look awesome.

I sent a couple texts. I'm like, is this guy as good as Vasilevsky? He looks like Vasilevskiy in there. He's huge. He was making big saves. He was quiet. Different guy than the one they shot eight by. Was he playing for Colorado when they scored eight on him?

Yeah. That was last year. You got Koop clip, too. Oh, yeah. Just to kind of. I couldn't. I'll do one. A little bit of the cleanup still.

Bertuzzi still looking for something. Yeah. So just nothing there for me on Saturday night yet. I'm still kind of waiting for it from Bertuzzi. He's had a little bit of chemistry with Tavares. One interesting thing is we kind of killed Tavares and Nylander for not working well together or all that well. Last year, Tavares connected or assisted on 12 Nylander goals.

And last year, Nylander 8 Tavares goals. They've assisted on every single one of each other's goals this year. 100%. 6 for 6. They're having a little more chemistry. Again, if they can just clean up a little bit in their own zone. The third goal where they were bumping into each other.

The one was embarrassing. Go off that goal back. How bad the two of them were. Lost draw. Tavares They were bumping into each other. The Barbele one was embarrassing. I want to go off that goal back. It was the second one. How bad the two of them were. Was it the second goal? Yeah. How bad the two of them were. Lost draw.

Tavares doesn't stay above the center. Nylander doesn't stay above Kucherov. They can't. Puck obsessed. If they've got all these great natural instincts offensively, then defensively they sometimes, like you almost like got to draw arrows for them on the ice and just say, follow the arrows. Well, don't follow the puck.

We got a dog this week, by the way. News for you. We got a dog. Oh, yeah. Chasing the ball around. That's Tavares and Elander at the ball. Like, they went to Kucharov, who had the puck on the wall, and the back check.

Then it went to the far side, and they both went that way. Then it got dropped, and they both went there. So we call them the Jas side and they both went that way. Then it got dropped and they both went there. So we call them the Jasper boys? The Jasper boys. The dogs Jasper, by the way. Team Jasper. So on Friday we had John Cooper as a guest. Oh, yeah.

And then he loses the way he loses on Saturday night and you're like relishing in it. What do you want from me? I am who I am. am thrilled i see listen you guys talk to me he likes you guys he borny calls you a borny you guys have a good relationship me not so much we know it's his way we know he called you guys the best he wasn't talking about me no let's just say that. No. Listen, I love when they flashed him on the bench,

and his face, when he's not thrilled, is one of my favorite things in hockey. Okay. Him and Hagel. Those are the two guys in Kucherov, too. That's like the three. Okay. So for Sammy, we've got a John Cooper, Kippers, Clipper. Yeah.

Just, you know, obviously frustrated. Watched that movie before against these guys. And it's, you know, disappointing just the way that the players handled the third period. Well, the last half of the third period and overtime. We're much better than that. And give Toronto a ton of credit. They did what you have to do to get points in hockey games. They played the whole 60 minutes plus, and we didn't.

And then we left it again, left it on our goalie's shoulders to carry it home, and that's so unfair. And obviously we didn't do it, and we didn't deserve to do it oh he didn't like that game it was that was honestly he makes it abundantly clear again off the weekend and in the playoffs to he likes to give the leafs a lot of credit well that is a little something isn't it he's always just laying it on some people listen to you know like abbey road by the beatles when they're sad or whatever to feel good that's my abbey road right there that's my abbey road what'd you think of the shove on willie neilander um

yeah i don't remember having any problem with it i haven't watched it back, but I didn't think it was terrible. You? Yeah, I thought it was a little bit of a cheap push into the boards. Did you want someone to punch your side of the face? Maybe a couple of words, you know. It's just, I don't know. Sometimes you see other teams respond. And it's like even if you're wrong and it was fine enough,

you should at least say just don't play around the edges. Yeah, just. I think they got to work on that a little bit. I just, I'm just, I'm looking for small victories and the, we care about each other that much look still. There was a moment in that game where there was a couple of sleepy moments where I thought, like, this would maybe be a good time for the Reeves thing.

How much could he have played that game? He didn't play. He played six. Well, he's already fought twice. No, no, but, like, just run into somebody. Go snow the goalie and have a scrum in front of the net or something. Didn't play out that. He played six minutes.

Five or six. Oh, yeah. Five minutes, yeah. Didn't have. It had a feel of a Leaf Tampa playoff game without any of the the snot it did yeah it was really again it felt like both teams knew it was a very meaningful game this early in the season is surprising to me like i was expecting it to be like remember the last game they played before the playoffs last year that was just a total it was like a total hootenanny remember it

was like fights it was crazy and they lost theyotenanny. Remember? It was like fights. It was crazy. And they lose like 8-0 and it was like fights. That's right, too. I forgot how to score. It was a wild game. And I was expecting some of that. None of that vibe. Did I send a video of Nick Robertson getting hit on the weekend as well?

Hey, we should probably take a break. Let's talk about this after. Okay, we'll pick it up after the break. Because Nick Robertson's with the Marlies and took a big hit on the weekend. So we'll visit that after these words. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. More real Kipper and Bourne after the break. fresh views on everything in the national football league it's the fan check down with matt marchese and donovan bennett subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever

you get your podcasts bill kiprin born just before the break, we were talking about Nick Robertson and the start that he's had. I did notice a pretty good rush up the middle of the ice the other night, and he got absolutely walloped. But outside of that, it's been an okay start, but listen, with the likes of Bertuzzi and Nyes kind of coming in full-time now for the Leafs on that left side, Domi on the other side, Reeves, not much room there.

I feel, excuse me for reading between the lines here, but he scored the game-winner after that hit, playing pretty well. Elliott on our show last week says he thinks he's you know could get frustrated you're saying he's blocked out are we having the conversation i think we're having like is this guy oh listen i've been i can have this conversation at any time with you uh i just do you think he will be traded uh even if he is i don't know what other teams would think that they're trading for. Yes, he can score, but I've been around the game a long time, and there are some guys that are just really good American Hockey League scorers

or junior scorers that just can't get it done in the NHL. I would think that as much headway he's made in a short period of time being down there, they would watch the video of him getting hit going up the middle of the ice with his head down and go well that's maybe the a good reason why you've been hurt so much well it's one of those things where we have said after he's been hurt you have said actually that you hope he better learns to protect himself and i have followed that up with like how often you you see Mitch Marner get smoked? How often do you see Patrick Kane get smoked? That guy's got a radar on him that it's just a gift from the hockey gods.

Marner never puts himself. I think once he's been shoved into the boards. In Columbus. Four years ago in Columbus. Five, six years ago. But, like, never gets hit hard. Never. Well, you think about all the little guys.

And he goes in all. You can't be in the league if you can't. Gaudreau. you can't draw like that so it is part of being a smaller player in the league and they're high traffic guys yes they'll play they'll stick handle in a phone booth but they don't stick around they get in they get out they mac from super punch out stick a move he's the little guy get in there you gotta hit so i i think if he can go through if if nick can go through a long period of time when he's not hurt and when you watch his game he doesn't leave himself vulnerable when when scouts start believing that he he's turned himself into a good pro player like in in that regard

then his there's a chance his stock will come up. Well. But there's, no one's paying. It's not happening anytime soon. Nobody's paying a second round for him, and no one's giving you back a blue chip prospect for him. Not a second rounder? Is there another team that has? I don't think there's a team out there that would even come close to giving up a second or a third rounder for him.

Well, then you don't want to trade him, because what do I want a fourth for? Is there another team's defense version of robertson that they could trade him for somebody's prospect that they don't love as much maybe there is sammy but the problem is well that's i mean you know who's next up for this team the problem is the teams always know first you know like the ahl scouts do. I just remember being with the Marlies and talking about some players and just, you know, you just knew it wasn't quite there. They still had some shine.

If you don't trade them right away, everyone knows. They missed the boat is what you're saying. Yeah, so maybe he shoots 30 in the net and figures it out. It's an ongoing thing with general managers is like truly figuring out what you have, when you have it, and how good it can get. And when you don't have it. Pooley RV, Edmonton. Yeah.

Top five pick. Yep. And there's a window there when you can move them for a lot. And if you miss the boat and the stock drops then that opportunity never comes back i think there's a few teams out there the rangers with caco and uh uh i like a friend yeah like how how good are they gonna get i think right now you could still get a lot for Lafreniere. Oh, yeah. You could talk dummy me into it for sure. But can you get him as a, this guy can be a face of your organization,

a franchise type of player. What about a first? A first for Lafreniere? Yeah, sure. Okay. But you know how disappointing that is? Given he was the number one overall. Number one pick overall for what?

A 25th pick overall? Yeah, no good point. No good. That ain't good return on investment there. Well, I don't know. I just, and even if they're going to call Robertson up, they're not going to call him up and play him on the fourth line. No.

That's not what he's to do. Like, it's going to be a top six injury that they call him up for or whatever, but it's not going to be anywhere in the bottom six. It could be a third line guy, you know, kind of where Domi is or something like that. No, they've seen that movie before. Yeah, we know how it ends. That guy needs to. There's a lot of movies.

Keith and Keith. Yeah, a lot of movies. All right. Thinking that the defense pair can hold its own now. This is as good as it's going to get. I wanted to ask you guys what you thought of McCabe Saturday night. I thought he was great. What?

Really? You didn't like him? Listen, he's a 5-6 for me. He's a bottom pair D. He's doing way too much. He does a lot. But in 20 and a half minutes, he's a plus player. He gets a couple hits.

He had a few shots. There's half the time it's like Marner, somebody's playing defense because he's down below the dots i think he's doing i think that's a fair point on a stanley cup contending team he's a 12 14 minute guy he he well he should be they don't have he should be giordano on a stanley cup contending team the implication here is you don't think the Leafs are a Stanley Cup contending team? No, we've done this before. We did this in training camp. They're one or two D away from contending for Stanley Cup.

I don't know how you could disagree with that. It's just that, to me, it's a glaring, glaring need. I want horses back there. You know, he's a competitive guy when he's at his best he is competitive and he can play hard but i just don't i don't see it right now enough out of him and he's a type of guy we were talking about like nice i i don't envision him ever getting down on himself mccabe seems like a guy that can lose his confidence pretty quick too. And then he second guesses his decision making out there.

He gets caught. And I would love for Van Ryn or Schrenauth or whoever's dealing with those guys to say, just don't go in. We have all the offensive players in the league. We're good. We got a lot of guys that do that part of it. Don't make Mitch play defense. Don't make him be our defenseman. We want you to do the defending.

I think they were on the penalty kill and Matthews found someone streaking off the half boards. I was like, oh, what a pass. He loves to get up on the PK. McCabe's streaking in on net. I'm like, what is going on? It's early in the year. I predicted him to have like a breakout goal year. Score like eight times or something.

He still might. But he shouldn't. Okay. He gives me the... He scores eight, they're in trouble. You watched Boston and Anaheim pretty close. Did you watch Detroit and Calgary? I did.

Pretty close. I watched. I watched it. I was flicking back and forth and everything. I had it on. You know who looked pretty good on Detroit? Don't say it. Justin Hall.

No, I'm telling you. Validating everything I've said for years. I don't care you're cringing right now. I don't care. I'm telling you. He leads the league in plus minus. I watched him. Yeah, he's plus nine.

He looked pretty darn good. Three assists yesterday. Three helpers. When's the last time he had three helpers? The first one was to bring it, I think, off the post. He got smoked by Zdorov, but made a great play out to the front of the net. Standard. But I tell you what, this is what I didn't see. This is what I didn't see out of Justin Hall is those bad pinches,

those bad decisions where you're like, why are you going in there right now? Like, there was a, it was calmer. There was just a little bit more structure in his game. I'm just telling you. This is, speaking of my Abbey Road, this is Barney's Abbey Road. This is, I'm being validated for years of defending a good hockey player. You know what, everyone, the only moments they see with Hall

that show up in the highlights is the once a night that Zadora puts his head through the boards and he gets up in a heap. And it's not the other 20 minutes where he's eating shot blocks, getting the puck off the glass and out. Getting buried and kicking one up to the winger. For a lot of these guys, it's hard to get them to explain that less is more sometimes.

I love that. And I would love for McCabe to have that conversation. And that's where I'm leading towards. Although you may lose a couple of the big hits that I think are some of the value of McCabe, but it's tough. Baby steps. Back to those hits, though. You're right. Riley, though.

Build your game back up. Playoff Riley? Riley looks like playoff Riley at the start of the year, which is nice. 25-08 last night. All right. Just like that. Leaf edition over. And now we go to our national hour.

Craig McTavish, former NHL-er, teammate of mine when we won the Stanley Cup. He's going to join us. We're going to get into the Oilers, man. And Connor McDavid, gone a week, two weeks. But at least the Oilers are doing well, so they got some buffer. All right. Wait. Plenty to come after the break as we go national on Real Kipper and Bourne.

Stick around. We'll be right back.