Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds Back at Practice

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off with the Buds back in Toronto practicing, and they hear from Sheldon Keefe on how the guys are adjusting as they near the end of their long Global Series break. They are joined by The Athletic's Joshua Kloke (25:47) fresh off the plane from Sweden to give his on-the-ground perspective of the Global Series. He discusses William Nylander's celebrity in Stockholm, potential trades down the pipeline for a defenceman and gives an update on John Klingberg's injury status. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

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As I said, Nick Kiprios, Justin Barnes, Sammy McKee, the Leafs. Oh, and Derek Brandeo and Frank the Tank again. Oh, my goodness. Don't forget those guys. Yeah. Ooh. The Leafs. I put Frank's last name on there.

Well, you know what? I just looked at it. I was like. Barzaka. It's the. Am I close? I have no idea. I was hoping you were going to say it.

Baraska. Baraska. Yeah. Love it. So you put that on for me and you don't even know how to pronounce it. Correct. That's what happened. Bring me out to dry. You're a really professional hosekipper.

I thought you'd be able to handle that. Not even close. The Leafs back on the ice after two days off. In those two days, I was told they needed those two days to assemble whatever they brought home from the Ikea. You know, you can pay someone to do that. I didn't know that was an option, but apparently, yeah.

We'll come build it for you. It's just my guess. And I don't know. I've never asked you guys before. But my guess is, JB, you would be unbelievable at assembling that stuff. Oh, God. And Sammy would absolutely suck at it. Well, you got me between the eyes.

Oh, my God. I'm a nightmare, Kip. No, I'm the worst. My wife won't even let me in the room anymore. Like, it's all her. Maybe it's just a guy thing. I rush a step, and then you can't go back and you've missed it's just i have to give my wife a shout out too she's excellent at it because

she's got good patience yes she can like read the instructions i'm just like oh this is gone i've never that's probably how it goes i've never done any of that stuff without it having at least four extra screws in my hands you don't own anything ikea i'm coming to your house it's all teak and hardwoods i'm sure no we we do and and then i'll put the whole thing together and i'll find out that that that the a side should be on the inside and not the outside you can't undo it and you got to go back it's horrible start over i went to ikea this past weekend and it didn't resolve in a relationship ending fight that's good very good that's a that'stime accomplishment. And what about the company Christmas party yesterday?

How was that? I'm playing a little hurt today, boys. Are you? Yeah, a little fragile. I said I wasn't going to. What was your drink of choice last night? A few IPAs. Yeah.

Got away from me a little bit. Not too bad. Nothing crazy, but I was having a good time. This is the first time you've ever gone to a Sportsnet event as a celebrity. It's true. Right? Yeah. I got, you know what?

Doppelganger I got twice last night and I've never heard it before. People told me I look like Conor McDavid twice last night. I was like, I don't think I look like Conor McDavid. Do you? Yeah, no. Is it just tall and white with a beard? Is that what it is? Legit.

Just like, you look generic. I got Ryan O'Reilly all the time last year. Like when he was playing here, people were like, you look a lot like Ryan O'Reilly. I mean, I've gotten just pretty much generic white guy with beard. Good beard density. Yeah, that was it. You don't think I look like Connor?

The only thing I look like Connor is on the ice, boys. That's the only place I look like Connor. Connor doesn't look like Connor right now. Fair enough. No, but shout out the, for instance, 25th anniversary party. We had a blast last night. Lots of great people that work here. We had a lot of fun.

So there you go. Glad to hear it. Yeah. All right. Any thoughts and ideas how they felt or looked, or will we get all of that from Sheldon Keefe? I didn't really watch practice too closely. I was lying on the couch before I came here today,

so I didn't get too good a look at practice. But if you listen to the first clip, he has a pretty glowing review of how everybody looked. Okay. Let's kick off the show with Sheldon Keefe glowing. Yeah, just about not underrating it, like, you know, giving it the proper attention. All right.

That's okay. What was that one? That was just out of context. I sense as the guys come back with lots of energy. Seems like they're more like themselves. And the recovery's gone well, if today's practice is any indication. Obviously, how they bounce back and then go at it again tomorrow would be a strong indicator for us of exactly where they're at.

I think having two days off the ice and away and all that kind of stuff. Now, we did have a bunch of guys that found their way in here yesterday just to get a little active. But just the two days away of a mental break in itself kind of recharges them. So today was really good. I think tomorrow will be a real indicator of exactly where we're at, but it was encouraging today.

I couldn't help think of my own experience as a professional hockey player, albeit not in the NHL. You're still on the buses, on the planes, in the hotels, with the guys, all that stuff. And I loved a day away just to not see the same people and talk to the same guys it's every day when

you're in that sort of circuit so i could see it for the guys what were you like that too you'd like to get away from the guys you like to hang no no i i like to hang yeah all year all year and wanted just to make them laugh or yeah just i needed that energy around me. I'm not that great by myself. Oh, no. I curl up in a hole. I go to a movie by myself. I need a minute. Dougie Hamilton over here going to museums or whatever.

Yeah. It's so much, man. That's because you're way more intelligent than I am. That's all it is. Your brain is starving for more than the mind. No, you have a softer heart. That's what it is. Get me away from these idiots. is starving for more than no you have a softer heart that's what it is and i was

get me away from these idiots well i i my tendency to if i was to as i am looking up from the outside looking in willie would be that that type of guy that you know i'm not sure if he's your typical kind of jock. Yeah. That he's the type of guy that I think can go on his own every once in a while, which probably sets him up well for a couple of days off, and no one would need it more than him. Yeah, and I think there's also, you know, there's the guys with families, like I'm sure Giordano,

you know, back with his crew, like everyone was happy to have a couple of days away from all like if you're detroit they play today like the wings were on that same trip maybe left a day earlier because they had the back-to-back games but like they're right back at it day yeah and so it would just feel to me if i were them you're doing the jet leg and time change and changing your sleep cycle you You arrive back here, and now it's like we got Jack Hughes tonight. And you mentioned it, and we mentioned it the other day, that it really set up as best for the Leafs, right? There was just nothing that suggested that they hadn't thought about this

real closely in terms of if we're going to do this, what's our best case scenario, and we're going to get, we're going to ask for it, and we're going to get it. Yeah. No, it's very generous in terms of what they've got coming back here, and obviously what they had over there too. So as you mentioned, only seems fair, you know,

if you're going to get us to go over there, and yeah, they should take advantage of it on Friday. At the end of the trip with Matthews, I think he had a quote where they were talking about the trip. He's like, yeah, looking forward to seeing these guys. I've been seeing these guys a lot. Like, you know, after that long of a trip together, it's like you're not, you don't have any me time.

No, you're in the hotel. Yeah, you're always together. Team meals, it's like, you know, these big round buffet tables where you sit with the same meatballs. You know, I think it's pretty good to hear that even though it's two sort of, I guess, mandatory off days, that guys are, they go back there. They're like one day off, they're like,

ah, I got to go back in there and just, you know, mill about, take my stick, hit the bike. Just see what Kip's been up to. Yeah. You can get your two days off, you can square away everything with your sleep doctor doctor but there are no guarantees on how you prevent a dip yeah when you return did you know do you want to what's the gibouchet thing gibouchet was the coach of the ottawa senators in 2017 2018

and they went to stockholm i think it was the first games played outside of Canada since, or outside of North America since 2011 or whatever. They were over there. And they came back, and I think they lost 12 of 13 games after coming back. 12 of 13. I mean. That's, I mean, they kind of stunk. They weren't the, you know, they were kind of flailing at that point or whatever.

I think that was the season with, like, the Uber video that came out. Oh, my God, about that. Who was that in the Uber? It was Duchesne, and it was the Mela. I uber video that came out god about that who was that in the uber it was duchesne and it was the metal like there's a i forget the the crew but yeah so i think they're this trip when we all talked to glowingly about how incredible it was i think that's going to be measured against this next stretch how it goes after it so true you come home and just like fall apart a different type of trip and in retrospect yeah so we want to play the the keef clip too talking about that if you want we can react off of it yeah just just about

not uh not underrating it like you know giving it to the proper attention that that it deserves that it's a real thing that you have to manage and you can't uh just expect the guys to push through and grind through without us being really smart and deliberate and doing what we can to take care of them. So how we've handled, A, the return, coming home Sunday night, and then the last couple of days, just letting them sort of find themselves and get what they need out of it. And then just be mindful when we're at the rink here today and tomorrow and you know we have

another funky uh start time uh on friday that's you know it's not a regular game day routine so it's a lot like what we had in sweden in that sense but uh just be really purposeful about what we're doing and give them every opportunity to bounce back. So, yeah, the science guys, like all the sleep dogs, this is just their Super Bowl. This is. Oh, they're having meetings. Justify my salary here.

Dusting off the PowerPoint. It's like, here we go, baby. It's time. Just don't get lit up 3-0 in the first period. They need an effort more than anyone else in the Leafs organization. Justify what they've done here. And they avoided the back-to-back in the first period. They need an effort more than anyone else in the Leafs organization to justify what they've done here. And they avoided the back-to-back in Sweden, but they won't this coming weekend with Chicago and Pittsburgh Saturday night.

Good thing, though, the 2 p.m. start is 8 p.m. Sweden time. You know, their bodies can't claim that their body clocks are too far off. Yeah, that's like game time in Sweden. What does occur to me most out of that Keefe clip is the word deliberate. claim that their body clocks are too far off so yeah that's like game time in sweden what does occur to me most out of that keef clip is the word deliberate like we're being very deliberate with like respecting the trip and like what it could have done to the guys and and all that so they're you know they're paying real attention to it which i think it's typical of coaches to go play through it you're fine fuck up that's kind of i mean that's kind of how i feel well of course

i mean these guys it's like they weren't you know flying coach you know it's like they're in like a plane it's like the guy who said jet lag's not real class meals on the flight they got all the room in the world they're not six foot five and coach with their knees up to their chin like me it's like it's important to be I get it. But these are 25-year-old elite athletes, boys. I can tell you, though, you can overdo it sometimes. Agreed. Right? Where you're putting it in their head that they're going to be on that stuff.

We know the gazillions of dollars MLSC has over most of the clubs. So what you end up doing is putting it back in and creating these new divisions and thinking you're doing something that's helping you win. But there can be a few players that can occasionally look at somebody and go, I got an out here. Just leave me alone. Yeah, just leave me alone.

Don't worry about it. I'm a big boy. I know when to turn the lights off and go to bed. I mean, you can overdo it a little bit. Not knowing Ryan O'Reilly very well, I wonder if maybe there was a part of him that sat there and said, yeah, I don't want to be micromanaged. I don't think the Leafs have this many more guys and this many more.

Are you kidding me? Listen, Rich Rottenberg is their strength. He's involved in the staff. He's not just the sleeper. They don't have a sleeper. They got people that tell you how to breathe. I think that's overblown. I don't think that's the case.

I wanted to pull up their staff page. Remember we pulled it up the one time? Yeah, it's massive. I know. They have like 300. There's like 25 people. Go get their payroll and take a look at what they created. It's a

city in itself. We can figure this out. We know people in the Leafs organization. I'm just saying that sometimes you can overdo it a little bit with some of the players. Yeah, they got a lot of people. A lot of people. I did at lot of people. A lot of people.

I did at least four scrolls there. Like, I was just a long way. It's fine if everybody's okay and they embrace it. But, you know, see the shrink coming down the hallway. I'm going the other way. It's such an old hockey thing to be like, ah, nothing, just play. Just drop the puck.

Oh, well, they got two full days off they had a nice practice yes and that's because they're respecting the process that's what respecting the process is we'll see how the kajillionaire perfectly tuned uh athletes look tomorrow maybe they won't be good to like god we'll see we'll see and it is chicago so you know you're not playing vegas right now or well vegas has lost a couple, I think, in the last little while. They are playing Conor Bedard. That alone will keep you on your toes, I think,

for the first 20 minutes. All right, any news on Klingberg at all today? Would you like the coach to provide an update for you? Yes, we really need a John Klingberg update on Kipper's Clipper number three. Yeah, no update on him. What are they building up for? We'll have something for you, you know, when something's changed.

At this point, there's no change in his status. That's the stop asking me answer. Okay. Not going to play this week. You know what no status means. It's like he's not improving. Not going to play this week. You know what no status means. It's like he's not improving. Yeah. Not playing this week.

He was asked later, so he won't play this weekend. I guess he won't play the next few games. So an update would be good, I think. They might not even know. You know what I mean? I don't know. I don't know a lot. Fire up the boat.

To the island? To the island. What kind of boat goes over there I don't know rowboat made of rice crackers it just disappears eventually it's gone with every passing day it starts to feel more and more likely doesn't it

you got a lot of Leaf fans right now going yeah we we see better ways got a lot of Leaf fans right now going. Yeah, we see better ways to spend $4.1 million. Of course. Assuming he's out for the year. The worst case scenario is that we'll see how he's doing in five months or something, you know?

I don't know. There, take another crack at that. No, I think it was Gilligan. See, you can tell my error, right? I, take another crack at that. Was it Love Boat? No, I think it was Gilligan. Oh. See, you can tell my error, right? I picked that up just like that. First note. Name that tune.

No idea. Gilligan's Island. Never. What did you say? Love Boat? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Don't look at me for answers about old guy TV shows. Is Derek an old? Derek's not an old. He's old-ish. Yes, he is. JB, there wouldn't be anything definitive coming on. You could

put him on LTIR, but without making that major commitment to go spend that money, that would have to come in the new year. There's just no way. It doesn't help you at all. You know, it doesn't fix your problem. All it does is tie up 4.1 on a guy you can't use.

Yeah, that's, yeah, you're right. You're right. So I'm sure they would like him to give them some sort of answer. I guess you could spend 1.15 of that, which you assume you could bury in the minors if you wanted. Something. Yeah, but that doesn't help you make a major commitment on trading for somebody else no no so stay tuned on that uh don't ask sheldon he'll tell you and yeah it really did feel like we have no idea he's got to talk to the other four people

that got to talk to john first like the like the frederick anderson thing yeah he's on the ice you know tracksuit or equipment in about uh what 15 minutes we're going to welcome in joshua cloak leaf a writer for the athletic now did joshua actually go to sweden he did oh yes i saw he's a like a foodie of sorts and i saw some of the in the audience when we saw uh willie in his uh ikea undershirt we i don't know if he's in the audience when we saw Willie in his Ikea undershirt? I don't know if he's in the audience, but he asked some questions about it. We'll have some more information on Willie. The pressing question of this week is how do you

end up in that? Mark Masters asked him today. He's like, ah, it's easy. That's what he said. He's like, you're somewhat of a fashion guy and how did you decide? He's like, ah're somewhat of a fashion guy. And how did you decide? I'm like, it was easy. Straight Hanes undershirt. He's not wrong.

It is easy. Fair enough. Do we want to go back to Sheldon talking about what he liked most about Sweden? Or are we done there? Well, I don't know. I think it sets the stage for this. Because he talked about it. He talked about it.

All right. Like you were fascinated by it? No, it's just, I i mean those are the last hockey games that the toronto may police played and we're a show that talks about the toronto may police playing hockey when they used to do that oh how was those in the days he spoke about the last time they played and looking ahead and thought it was worthy but if we don't want to play the producer there we go i explain myself number four yeah well i i love that we found ways to get our points and found ways to get wins um you know while there was willie coming through in big moments you know you know willie obviously is over 10 goals a huge moment and some of this play

in the third period against detroit is great but also you know tyler patuzzi john taveras were a really big part of of that as well. Matthew Smarnerline scored us two big goals at 5-on-5 against Minnesota. Penalty kill didn't allow anything while we were out there. There's lots of good things that happened that allowed us to get points. So that was really good. We didn't play our best hockey you know it was that's for sure but a lot of encouraging signs of how the group pulled together at big moments to make sure that we got our points to me the most encouraging thing is tyler bertuzzi this week

that was the name that stood out to me too that he got a mention in for bertuzzi who you know after six or seven games of the year we're going what did they do here yeah and he seemed to find i don't know what he is it the pace of his game or like the way like the role on that line like what do you think it's been that's changed with him because i i do think fit yeah you know personally just like him being able to work with a couple of guys who play in a way that complements his game a bit you know when he gets that blue paint and opens up some space and those little passes in the ozone i, I don't know, just seemed like a pretty good fit to me.

He has to just, for me, a type of player that he is, he has to be emotionally, you know, invested. He was thrilled when they were scoring. He was the happiest guy when they were scoring. I just saw him on the outer edge of that for the first 15 games. Maybe there's just a comfort zone that he's feeling now for the first time. I don't expect him to. If anyone envisioned 85, 90 points out of him on a line with Matthews and Marner,

that's just not going to happen. Can it be 67? 25 and 30. Would you take 55 points, 60 points? With that physicality of throwing a Justin Hall against the boards and stripping the puck off and bringing it in like that he he physically that that's a hit that you wouldn't necessarily have saw from bunting bunting would probably have to steal the puck but he physically could not push justin hall like that

like bertuzzi that's that's the upgrade that i saw going from a bunting to a bertuzzi and they're just three strong guys like a you know in the ozone if they get into that ozone that line can be effective if he can help them play in that end a little bit more that would help too but yeah it's uh it seems to be there for him on that line anyway okay let's take a quick break and then we'll welcome in joshua cloak and talk a little bit more Swedish hockey with him. You want to talk net guards? Okay, what was net guards for? Well, there's guys wearing them.

Gio's wearing them. Yeah, there's a bunch of guys that Gio has never looked more like a North York men's league guy than he looks now. I have played against Gio like 10 times a week. Okay, so we got Keefe. We don't have to play. No, let's play. You put it in, Sammy.

I don't want to ignore your clips, even though some of them are useless. All right, play it there, Derek. I think it makes a lot of sense. I'm in full support of guys if that's how they, if they're comfortable doing that. And I think at this point, guys are just experimenting to see what works for them. I think it's a very personal thing,

especially when we're in the midst of a season and guys, you know, performing at the highest level with lots of pressure and expectations and such that, you know, are very particular about their gear and stuff like that. But I think the more players that do it, obviously makes them safer. And I think the more players that do it obviously makes them safer. And I think it sends a really message to young people, you know,

that, you know, that it's an important piece of equipment, that the bulls that are not playing at the highest level and are not playing with the same level of expectations or pressures, that safety should be the utmost priority. Perfect. I heard a guy giving his guys an out too, you know, saying the right things but also saying, you know, guys are playing at the highest level, in particular about their gear.

This is the way it should be. It's there. It's available. Please take it. No one's saying that you can't take it here. So it's working the way it should. And Willie gave a very committed answer on it. He said he's willing to give a neck guard a try at some point.

Provided it's Balenciaga. Versace. Apparently they brought in three different types of neck guards and they were all able to try all these different ones. And that's a smart way to do it. Give them options. My son's got a power 999 one from second time around if they want. All right.

Let's have a break. Get to Josh. We need European design. We do. Okay, now we take our break from net guards to Joshua Cloak. After the break, more Real Kipper and Bourne. Breaking down the top stories in the NHL every day.

The Jeff Maris Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. Go to Joshua Cloak momentarily. Pick it up where we left off. I think, Willie, you made an interesting point the other day that you thought maybe there might be a lull coming up a little bit. You know, I think there's a lot of reason for excitement for Willie, right?

It's a contract year. Came in, you know, playing as hard out. Then you get the excitement of as the rest of the league kind of flags a little bit. You go to Sweden and play in front of grandma and get all excited i think probably a little harder to come home and go all right now i'm fired up for you know game 18 or whatever so it's possible it appears ryan reeves is on the outside looking in at least going to chicago for friday afternoon's game wow uh is this one of these where the coach thinks we're playing well enough?

I don't want to rock the boat because you got to fit him in. Eventually you can't. The struggles are there and you can't ignore them, but you can't also bail on Ryan Reeves. No 20 games into a three-year deal. What's crazy is, you know, I had the thought like maybe they're looking ahead like it's back to back they're going to get him in one of the two

is he a better fit to play against pittsburgh or chicago but pittsburgh doesn't have anyone that's particularly physical or nasty or anything like that so either way cory perry revenge game on friday night when they after he called him. I wonder if they want to avoid that. Probably. I wonder if they're looking to get, you know, anyway. Okay, let's welcome in Joshua Cloak, Leaf writer for The Athletic. Joshua, you were in Sweden. Did you need two days off before you went to work?

I literally just got, I stepped in the door about eight minutes ago from Sweden. Well, Siegel and I took a little detour and we spent a few days in Copenhagen because when are you going to be back there? And yeah, why not? So I don't know. I got to go back to work tomorrow. I don't get two days off. So I guess that's my answer.

I don't know. I feel good. How was the weather in Copenhagen? Rainy? Yeah, it was pretty miserable. The weather was miserable. Yeah, I know. I was there.

Is that a thing there? I think it's a thing there. Is it Ireland? Yeah, the weather in Sweden wasn't any better. And I know that was kind of like a storyline that, like, there was a few players that, like, were calling out the lack of sunshine. And, like, I don't know. You're still in, like, beautiful old Europe.

But that was definitely a thing. Like, the weather was pretty terrible throughout. The sleep doctors just had their heyday, right? It's like, yeah, you got your circadian rhythms all wrong, earning their paychecks down there. Okay, so coming off of Sweden, it seemed almost too perfect for Willie, the Leafs, all of it. There wasn't a chance the fix was in here.

I mean, it was so perfect well they were I mean they were also playing teams that like the Leafs had a pretty let's be honest a pretty soft schedule right both the teams are both the games they played they were playing teams on the second night of the back-to-back. And even though like the Leafs were technically the away team, like that pretty much just meant like last change. Like that, you know, when you were in the rink itself, like the, you know, each team had their own goal songs. Each team like had their own specific like warmup songs. Like it, it certainly never felt like an away game at all for the Leafs.

So pretty soft for them. And I think all those little things kind of helped contribute to making the team as comfortable as possible. I think some guys, just kind of thinking about it now and thinking about it on the flight back, I think some guys embraced it a little more than others. And I think you saw that like in their play i think there were some guys that probably didn't want to be there as much but i think you know the guys that did want to be there played well and willie was one of them right yeah willie was one of them and sometimes when you do these interviews you like save the question you

really want to ask you work it in the question but i just want to talk about willie and his tank top on the talk show so we're going right to that you know you were there you're on the ground what what what is that all about what kind of talk show was that they're asking about sending pictures and just give us the background on the willie talk show experience like i'm laughing because like i i'm kind of as soon as i kind of saw it unfolding i put myself in the shoes of like the leafs and mlse pr people and i just wondered like how fast their heart started beating and how tense they were getting. Yeah, like watching Willie get, like, you're right, essentially groped by a senior citizen who was calling him a strong, groovy man. It was, you know, and there was, you know,

they were playing this never have I ever game. And, you know, if they had done it, they had to take a drink. And they're asking Willie about, you know, having relations with fans, sending nudes. Like this is stuff that would be earth shattering. Imagine. But it's okay, right? It's okay because it was a reversal.

Imagine us presenting that, though, to Leafs PR, though, that we wanted to have Willie on to ask those questions. Imagine. I don't think you'd see or you'd even get an accreditation-like paper ever again. You know, it wouldn't even be a consideration. But to me, like, this was Willie going, like, full Willie, right? Like, just embracing the moment and being the kind of guy that I think he's like been building towards for like the past few years. Like we've always kind of known that Willie likes to do things his own way and he kind of lives outside the box. But when you saw him being as comfortable as he was, you got an idea of just how massive his star power could be. Like, don't we want more NHL players, you know,

making these kind of appearances and being honest, being genuine? Like, that's what my takeaway from it was, is like, this is him. Like, if that's what being a star is in Sweden, he lapped it up. And I think we're really seeing Willy Nylander become the star that, honestly, I think he's always kind of been destined to be. And I really think we're going to look back at, you know, this Sweden trip. And honestly, man, like that talk show appearance as a turning point in his career is like this was the point where Willie became a bona fide NHL star, right?

So does that mean now we're going to see him on breakfast television with the same undershirt? Like, is that what's going to happen here? Is it following him back home here in Toronto? Like, we're going to start, like, my prediction is like Halloween 2024, Willie Nylander in the tank top is going to be

the Vogue costume. The thing to wear. So my understanding was that he had a shirt on, like a button-up shirt, and then seconds before he was meant to go on the stage, he just said, nah, and he ripped it

off. And he went on stage in a tank top. Went for the romance novel cover look. I want to pick up on this feeling that you have have that he is just he's gone to another star uh level here so does that mean that the leafs are now forced to sign him at all costs here i mean weren't they always forced to sign him at all costs like right like i mean it's it's going forward like john tavaris is not going to be

the player he was a few years ago like you're gonna legitimately need willie nylander to to compete like he's just been he's gotten better every single year and i don't know if it was the tank top that you know was going to force brad tree living you know into a corner here. I don't know. I've always thought that the Leafs had to sign him at all costs. I mean, how much do you think his price tag has gone up after Sweden?

Genuine question. I thought prior to Sweden that he's making an argument to be paid in the top 10. And if he doesn't hit Pasternak's number, he can hit the percentage that Pasternak has on Boston. Yeah, and I just think that, you know, if you are Willie Nylander's camp, you can build all of this into your argument, right? You can build, you can build the fact that like, you now have another like actual star that you can use to, to, you know, literally to sell tickets because the bigger Willie

Nylander gets, you know, the more he's like not going to play what fourth fiddle anymore. Like he's going to become the guy that kids are going to want to go see. He's going to become a face that the Leafs can sell even more. That's going to drive his, you know, his value up, too. I don't know. There was probably a case to be made

that it was in the, you know, the $10 million range before the season. I don't see how that's going to be possible now. I just got a groan from McKee. Are we done on Willie Kipping? Can I move on? Anywhere you want to go, pal. All right.

I want to talk about the Leafs' defense. I wrote about their defense today. You know, imperfect, I would say, but they've done a decent job of keeping pucks out of their nets. You know, what are your thoughts on on what what's going to happen here with their depth pairs it's been benoit it's been lagasin they got timmons coming back like is this what it's going to look like for the leafs leading up to the trade deadline probably not right like you lagasin and and timmons and Benoit, these are all just like nice, fine players.

But this is going to sound cliche, but like nice, fine defensemen, like don't get you to the third and fourth round of the playoffs. I genuinely think Bradtree Living went into this season with upgrading the defense as his biggest priority. And I think he was, I don't know if unhappy is the right word, you know, with the defense heading into the season, but he was pretty adamant on making changes. And I think, you know, the health of John Klingberg

has forced his hand even more. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a drastic change to the Leafs' blue line relatively soon right I think Brad Tree Living is really feeling out the market and and seeing what he can do I think he needs to get you know an answer one way or another on the health of John Klingberg before he makes a pretty big deal but I mean that the Leafs blue line I I think you know we can argue is probably worse than last year. And, you know, again, Tree Living was pretty clear heading into the season that, you know, he's big on defensemen and big on big defensemen.

And that's a priority for him when building out his team. So I can't see this going on much longer because if you look at, and I know you kind of wrote about this, but if you look at the biggest change from this year's Leafs to last year's Leafs, it's just how much more porous they are defensively. And that's something that is just unsustainable, especially when you get into those, you know, the dog days of the season when guys are getting tired and, you know,

and Austin and Willie go cold for a bit, like, and you can't outscore your problems that this is just such a major area that needs to be addressed. And I have to imagine it's, it's a real priority right now. We're talking to Joshua cloak, the writer for the athletic.

Is there, is there a, do you envision a scenario where they agree with Klingberg to take a lot of time off and maybe settle down what might be a hip issue? He's had two surgeries there in the past. And maybe it's another scenario where we see a guy disappear only to reappear after the the trade deadline or the cap and yeah the depth in the playoffs all of a sudden

he's somewhere to be found like i'm i'm grimacing because like i i don't i've i've never liked that but the rules are the rules and the rules are there for people to kind of take advantage of them so it's possible they're certainly what i can say is they're certainly laying the groundwork for that to happen right one of the most interesting things that that we took away from sweden was sheldon keith and i'm sure this has been on on on keith's i'm sorry on kipper's clips you know like sheldon Keefe. And I'm sure this has been on Keefe's, I'm sorry, on Kipper's clips, you know, like Sheldon Keefe essentially saying it's trending in the direction of John Klingberg's injury becoming serious and long-term.

So you can see they're kind of setting people up for the understanding that this is going to happen um i i don't know what i get from from talking to john clingberg and being around him is that he really wants to play um and and i don't think he's going to be one to go quietly into the night because like if this is and i'm not saying this is it but if this is like the end or the last chapter of his career, it's not a great way to go out. You guys are both players. You know that players want to keep fighting as long as they can.

So it's difficult. I guess the thing that sticks with me, and this is a little bit of a non sequitur, but I've been thinking about it a lot in Sweden. It's kind of concerning to me, though, because either, you know, the Leafs, when they signed John Klingberg, they didn't know about this injury and that's, you know, concerning or they knew and they signed him to over $4 million a year anyway, which is equally, maybe more concerning. I don't know where you guys are at, but I think that's something that whatever happens

here, if John Klingberg doesn't play again, I do think we need to ask some pretty hard questions about how the Leafs even got into this situation, right? Those are really good points. That is, it's one of two things and either outcome is like was the right amount of due diligence done and certainly worth asking. You mentioned that you know he wants to play he will not go quietly into the the night here another guy not doing that ryan reeves you know he's a guy is going to be heard from again he's got a three-year contract um and hasn't played here in a little bit i'm not sure if you spoke to him in sweden at all or or where his head's at but what are your thoughts about as of right now it doesn't look like he's slated to be

in on friday as well you know where is this heading with with uh reeves and the leafs yeah i had a conversation with someone about reeves and and this upcoming weekend right like he's probably going to play one of those games in the back-to-back right like bobby mcmahon has been like fine um he's been kind of as advertised um and scored yet that's what we really need to see but it's been better um but i figure he's going to get into one of those games i i guess that the sentimental side or whatever of me thought there's no way Sheldon Keefe would put him in the lineup against a Kyle Dubas team. Like, I don't know if there's something about that,

playing Ryan Reeves against, you know, the Kyle Dubas Pittsburgh Penguins on Saturday. That doesn't make it. Yeah, I know. I thought he was going to get in on Friday. It doesn't look like it. I don't know. It has been very, very quiet around Ryan Reeves' stall,

which is quite different than it was in October. He was just a hub for attention when he got here, right? And not in a bad way. He was always willing to speak, which isn't something players in Toronto always want to do. He always had things to say. He often had quite a few things to say. Is he still controlling the music? Listen, I don't know.

I can tell that things, you know, we've all been around dressing rooms. Sometimes you just get a feel, a gut feel. You can certainly feel that Ryan Reeves is kind of understanding what he's gotten himself into and how different you know the reality is come november than you know september and pre-season when it's all about you know punching guys and and you know you know flexing when you come out as a maple leaf for the first time, right? Things look very, very different now. His stall is a lot more quiet. I don't know.

I don't know what the end game is here, but three years is a really, really long time. I think we're still kind of early in the Ryan Reeves story, if that makes sense. Yeah, I don't disagree at all um justin and i had a different thought process on the second leg in sweden where i thought samsonov was going to come back and play he said uh joseph wall and i don't know i don't know what got settled going into this weekend on whether or not we're going to see

one guy kind of still pull away with this starting net or we're going to see a 1A, 1B? I think confidence in Joseph Wall is really, really high. Like throughout the organization it is really,

really high. I think what I, you know, and I had a chance to talk to Joseph a few times in Sweden, like what gets me about him and, you know, you, you can see it with guys when they're down and he's not like this at all. He just doesn't live in his head. Right. He, and that's really hard for a goaltender. And, you know, that's something that Ilya Samsonov was admittedly struggling with earlier in the season. But for a goalie as young as he is to not overthink things

and to just kind of literally just accept his place in the universe, as strange as that sounds, I think that's what really appeals to the Leafs coaching staff when it comes to Joseph Wall. He's not fighting pucks. He's remarkably relaxed out there. And I really think if it came down to one or the other right now, I would still give the edge to Joseph Wall.

I know that's probably debatable, but the team just looks more at ease in front of him compared to samsonov don't they that's my observation i don't know where you guys are at there well you know i think you're you're right there and it does sort of remain to be seen how that all shakes out you know when one thing i wanted to get your take on because kip and i have taken taken a reasonably hard time about being at times a little hard not hard on this team but they're 10 and 5 but there has been real shortcomings um i think defensively and in some other areas compared to previous seasons how do you think this team stacks up we know where they are record wise but how do you think they stack up against

previous iterations of themselves yeah Yeah, not as good. I was really, really high on last year's team because I thought they put all the pieces of the puzzle together, if that makes sense. I don't know. I get criticized for believing too much in this, but I'm just a big believer in so much of the off-ice component and how much that matters.

And I think they did well to just figure out the synergy of the room. You had some real A1 humans in that room with Alex Kerfoot and Justin Hall, and we can debate what they would do on the ice, but you just felt a harmony in that room. You felt that everybody understood their place and i'm not saying they can't get there i i still think the the tyler bertuzzi's

and the max domes of the world are still figuring out their place they've been better for sure um but the you know the clingberg and the reed stuff is just hanging over them. And, you know, even the additions they made at the deadline last year were just really a one humans who understood, you know, like Noel Achari is a perfect example. Right. And I just don't know if, if they're there yet. I don't know if the team has really kind of come together and that, that takes time, but I think we underestimate just how big of a turnover this roster actually underwent um and i'm i don't know my my faith in this team

to i don't know it sounds silly but like work for each other it's not there yet it it could get there but i don't know i i don't see that yet and maybe that is based too much on you know just being around these guys and just trying to communicate with them as humans but i just don't see it yet and that's why i'm not on as high on this team as as i was the 22 23 team if that makes sense hey joshua we thought we were going to get you uh on a zoom call at the last second is it true you canceled because you realized you're coming right off the very handsome Henrik

Lundqvist on a Zoom call? That's partly true. Here's a little too much information, but I'm one of those guys that as soon as I get home off a flight, everything goes in the laundry,

like within 30 seconds of getting home. It's even worse for me. It's even worse than that. So that's why I had to call an audible because I have my routine. Yeah, we thank you for that. Yeah, of course. I'm here for you.

All right. So that's where I'm at right now. We appreciate your time either way. Great stuff. Josh, thanks for doing this, man. Yeah, take care, guys. Joshua Cloak from The Athletic does a terrific job covering the Toronto Maple Leafs. Let's face it,

he's a half-chewed caramel compared to Henrik Lundqvist. Well, we all are. I love the idea of the walk in the door, though, and just gear off. Oh, much like the... So he told us that he did the hit naked? Is that what he just said?

Like Willie? Who's the hockey player that went shirtless skins? Didn't you see him? That went viral. It's my favorite beer league video ever. I tweeted it out. It's just the beer league video ever. I tweeted it out. It's just the guy going no top. He's just no shirt.

Elbow pads. Nipples out. Yeah, but he had a cage on him, which is hilarious. Maybe that was Joshua. Could have been. No. No, I don't know. I want to talk a little bit about your article today on Sportsnet.ca,

which talks about the Leafs and, you know, the deficiencies on the blue line. And it was really centered and I urge people to it's one of those articles I didn't mind oh well thank you on the uh on the uh analytics of gap control yeah yeah and that you know the the crux of it is this Leafs decor was 31st out of 32 teams in in terms of a tight gap. They are sagged way off. On average, when the puck enters their blue line, their D are sagged back over 12 feet, which, you know, think how much room that is

for Nikita Kucherov to move laterally or whoever else. And the guys who are the worst at it are the four guys who play the most for him. Over the years, it's been a peeve of mine that there always seems to be a disconnect between the forwards and the D for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, sometimes. And Willie leads this charge of kind of cheating a little bit,

but I get it. A guy with that talent has the ability to... Yeah, you want him to take some chances. Some chances, and not everybody goes by the same rules. I know that enough to know. As a player, you probably didn't get the same leeway as Kovalev. But there are times when I want to reintroduce the defense to the leaf forwards. Yeah.

And when it doesn't go well... Because he stretched so far. Stretch, and then how many icings do we see if it doesn't connect? Yeah. Yeah. And so the article kind of goes over that. And TJ Brody in particular, not great on retrievals. They can tighten their gaps up a little bit or get people who skate better.

That's the other option. We're going to take a quick break and then we go national on Real Kipper and Bourne. We'll welcome in Billy Jaffe, NHL analyst for Nissan. And we'll talk a little bit about the Boston Bruins. More after the break.