Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds' Backbone

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

Nick Kypreos,  Justin Bourne and Sam McKee get right into a busy weekend in Leafs land as they pick up an impressive win over the Oilers and bring a great defensive effort despite the loss against the Hurricanes. They discuss the team starting to embrace a tougher identity, how they have rallied without Marner in the lineup, Domi becoming more consistent and McMann and Holmberg reinvigorating secondary production. Then, to the crease and a chat about Samsonov's mysterious injury. Finally, a deeper dive into the Hurricanes' playoff outlook, TJ Brodie's role on the team going forward and powerplay woes persist.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

let's welcome everybody in march 25th the monday we're inching ever so closer the stanley cup playoffs what four weeks yes yes we're getting there now april 17th is the leafs last game today is march 25th so we're getting there that's the voice of justin bourne sammy mckee derrick brandeo and james wilson wilson wilson jimmy willie that's a good wilson good wilson call nick kiprios we are live and in color on sportsnet 590 sportsnet 360 sports at plus from four to six and download us when you can't catch us live on your favorite pod and texas 590 590 don't probably get to them as much as we would on off the rails friday but if they're good

sammy's waiting to catch sammy's attention i watched so much sports this weekend just a sickening amount of unusual for you give us the hell just i just watch it's all i do so much sports how fast did you leave friday to get to your owen oh that was on thursday that was thursday yeah so i got there with five minutes left in the first period yeah so that was fine so i watched the whole game they lost that game the attack they did and then yesterday on sorry on saturday they needed a win to get to 30 for the 13th straight year which only the london knights have ever done in chl history and they blew a two goal three a third period lead and lost in overtime and didn't get to the record sitting on 29 sitting on 29 wins devastating at least we didn't draw london in the first round so no it's sagging on the first round who's also probably gonna end things quickly

but at least it's not london at least i don't have to have all of leaf's nation pulling up clips of easton cowan going uh globetrotter on my beloved attack so that's good but yeah but then i mean the march madness mackenzie hughes was in the mix at the Valspar for a little while there. Canada Soccer had a big game. TFC. Toronto Maple Leafs. Huge. Buddy, I was just... Your wife must be disgusted by you.

My wife doesn't even like hanging out with me. She has plans. She goes out with her friends. I'm just like, sports time again. You just recently got married. Just wait 25 years from now. See how that relationship works out. We'll see. Anyways, it's a. Oh, yeah. Just wait 25 years from now. See how that relationship works out.

Yeah, we'll see. Anyways, it's a great weekend, boys. We left Friday's show really, I don't know if we built it up, the Saturday night game against Toronto and Edmonton, and we're going to break down everything that happened on the weekend. But did it did it hold what you thought it would be in terms of a measuring stick because listen i know we did the game last night we know that the leafs lost uh but i gotta tell you overall for the weekend

i didn't think it was a bad weekend at all for the toronto maple no no not at all not at all i mean you can't say it's only a measuring stick game when you lose, you know? Like when you go out there and you measure up well and you're missing some important pieces. There is more times now where I'm watching the Leafs play where I like things beyond just the core, which is a little unusual.

You know, earlier in the season, there's a lot of fuss about how they score 60% of the team's goals. It's down to 50. There's more to like right now about these Toronto Maple Leafs. Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good. I, okay. I want to be careful here. Oh, boy.

But I definitely feel a lot more optimistic about the Toronto Maple Leafs today than I would have told you I feel like heading into the weekend. Like, I'm not all the way there, but I do feel like those are two. I mean, the Sunday night, it's clearly, last night's clearly a bit of a scheduled loss. There's a lot of things not to like,

but you see Joel Wall's performance in that game that gets you dreaming. The game against their sort of pseudo rivals but they're not a obviously conference rival or whatever but it's played so well in that game for most of it i don't know it just i agree with you kipper it was a good feeling weekend and the oilers thing i know we're gonna get a lot more of this than national hour but if you you can't say that you think the oilers gonna win the cup and say that the least can't win the cup okay i i think theys can't win the cup. Okay?

I think they are way more similar than people give them credit. And I, you know, everyone always like all the big contending Oilers and the crappy little Leafs that could never win anything. It's like, oh, they're pretty similar to me. Prior to Saturday night, I don't know the exact record, but the Oilers were at 39-9, I think. They've been hot, for sure. Oh, no, that's not hot. They've been hot, for sure. Oh, no, that's not hot. They've been hot.

That's really good. Yeah, I'm just saying. But I'm not going to completely dismiss your thought process that the Oilers, maybe on the weekend, had showed that they're less than perfect, right? We saw some holes this weekend from the edmonton oilers and and the leaves have made some traction here either through the trade deadline edmondson as we saw saturday night helped give them a better look one that brad tree living was hoping for

didn't get the perfect probably trade deadline for himself but he got bigger he got tougher and it showed saturday night yeah i would say that was saturday's storyline i think a lot of people you know you don't overstate that or whatever but it was unique to see the toronto maple leafs take it to another team's group of stars frustrating this is cross-checking yeah there was lots that's a great job it there was a lot of that out of the leafs and obviously getting dry saddle off his game was a you know a nice uh nice play from edmondson frustrated darnell nurse at some point too um and then you get bobby mcmahon scores a couple pontus holmberg scores a couple and it just feels like there's pieces and it hasn't

all come together you know that, it came together very well. We haven't seen exactly what it's going to look like with a healthy Marner and a healthy Jarnkrok and all these other pieces contributing, but you can definitely dream on a lineup now. You're like, all right. Yeah, that's part of it that's impressive too. Like they did it on Saturday night without Marner,

without Jarnkrok, without Labushkin, right? Did he play Saturday? No, he was out on Sunday. Bertuzzi was out on Saturday. He played last night. They didn't have TJ Brody for their own choice, but he's supposed to be one of their best guys. And you go out there and you smoke one of the quote-unquote contenders in the NHL.

Okay, let's go to Sheldon Keefe with his thoughts Saturday night facing the firepower of the Edmonton Oilers. I thought that our guys just competed hard tonight. You know, I thought we played with lots of attitude. You know, I really thought that our defense, in particular Edmonton and McCabe, I thought really set the tone for our team here tonight.

Just how they competed. And our penalty kill gave us life in the in the game in that first period special teams we've been talking lots about that and I'm sure it'll come up again here is the third period but we're not in the position that we are we don't get it done uh in the first period just with the kills especially the first one hey listen we've covered a lot of Leaf games in the last three years, and I can't recall seeing a game like Saturday nights where you saw Leaf players targeting the opponent's best players. And I'm talking the best in the world in connor mcdavid like they went after him there's no second thoughts from joel edmondson in terms of pushing shoving giving it to connor

not thinking about repercussions not looking over his shoulders like i thought it was fantastic. Turn your mic on. You like that piece. Oh, I'm like, how refreshing is that for a Leaf fan? Yeah. It's funny, too, because, you know, I don't think anyone looks at Edmonton and goes, this guy is, you know, unbelievable. He's going to be this, that, or the other thing in the playoffs. But if he's that, kills penalties and makes people mad

and throws some extra cross checks, it's nice. It's nice that the Leafs could have a back end that could at least make some forwards go god my ribs hurt today maybe I don't want to stand in front of the net like I think last year dude was brought in Shen and Shen was a awesome player for the Leafs and I loved him and you know made the Luke's troops joke and I was one of the. I loved him. But I don't think he is outright dirty like Edmondson is. Yeah. Edmondson, to me, just feels like a dirty hockey player, and I love it. Like, it's not like I'm saying that in a negative way. Yeah.

Like, he, that was just abuse on Dreisaitl. I'm thrilled. That one in the court, and he just hammers him twice. They get in the, like, there's a full-on Donnybrook with all the stars on the ice, and he's involved. He's the guy at the top of it. I got to say, he's winning Leaf fans over. He is quickly becoming a fan favorite with Leaf Nation.

Let's go to clip four on Edmondson and McCabe. Edmondson won. McCabe had won, I think, on Kane as well. But it wasn't even just the contacts. It was the level of competitiveness on the puck, like the battles to come up with the pucks, a lot of that on the penalty kill, face-off scrums, all those kind of things where we're coming up with pucks. And that's what we need. We make those decisions to play that way and compete like that. We're a hard team to beat, and we're capable of great things. It changes the complete dynamics of the Leafs for me

if that level of consistency can hold. Yeah. And, you know, I don't see any reason it can't. What I do like, Kip, is, like, you know i i don't see any reason it can't what i do like kip is like you know they had brody out um for a couple games in a row there and you didn't feel like there was a guy in the lineup who can't play in the league and so i think that means in playoffs if anyone is struggling you feel like they can go to their seventh guy and even their eighth guy and pretty you know still feel the decor that is pretty pretty

acceptable i know they don't have who colorado has or vegas has or even carolina has at the top end of the back end but they're you know they got a lot of fives you know a lot of guys who are physical fives and i think that at least if they can keep it simple you can see a world where they can get the puck out enough to help the forwards absolutely like and it's just you know that was a huge game on saturday night and with all the build-up with what you know the talking about zach hyman saw willie neilander say that he's not getting it tonight like that might as well be the messier guarantee from him he's never said anything interesting that was a competitive thing oh my god i can't believe you said that like it was nothing basically but i just for them to come out and respond like that in a game like that,

that's what playoff games are like. They have a ton of buildup. They have a game where, like, you'll look forward to it. Everybody talks about it. And it's a big event. And you come out and play that greasy and that aggressive and that well. It makes you feel good. It does.

We're going to get your thoughts on Holmberg and McMahon. And I mentioned this on the show. You might be right about McMahon. Wow, listen. Just hold on for a second. I said this on the telecast last night. We covered Caroline and the Leafs. And Max Domi passes the belt.

Could have easily given it to Holmberg or McMahon for their multiple goals but he he hands it to Edmondson and that's the one thing about Max is that you know what stood out for Max for me in the last month month and a half is everything he says everything he does is kind of inclusive like it's all about bringing the guys in, saying the right things to bring in that closeness, that competitiveness that the team needs moving forward. Maybe it's so noticeable because it's been lacking all these years and not the, you know, I mean, we can look at the leadership group in many ways

and there's some things that we've liked in the past from this group and there's some things that we haven't liked. But this guy is consistent in his message sending. Everything isn't about me or I. It's we or I don't have a discussion with you at all. No, and you know what? I said this to you yesterday that it feels like he's the bridge between Team A and Team B.

Like it's almost like, you knowthews and him are pals sounds like they like hang out at the back of the plane and you know do their thing they have a relationship they seem to like play need to with each other matthews passes it to him it passes to him a lot a lot you know so it feels like they've like welcomed this other guy into their team and now now, you know, with the way McMahon's rolling, who they also seem to really like, and Holmberg Matthews calls him his favorite player at times, and Marner did too, it almost feels like you can kind of,

it feels like there's more connection between the groups and you're not just a team of four guys. And I think Max deserves a lot of credit for being the first guy to sort of create that bridge. What'd you think about his fight? He punched that guy in the head a lot. Everything he does keeps me at the edge of my seat yeah earlier in the season it might have been a turnover but he's limited those he's making better decisions and everything out there he's got that edge that i don't know. He could make an amazing pass. He could get into a fight.

He could have a long conversation with somebody that ends with a lot of FUs. I mean, whatever the case is. He could still have a whoopsie doodle with the puck. He can do a lot of stuff that gets your attention. He's quite unpredictable. Yeah. And I like that. Well, better predictability in a positive way in the

last two three weeks sammy no i just mean like unpredictable in terms of a good play a fight yeah you're the one before the season started that said i you mentioned he's going to be a fan favorite but the other thing you said is how long before he gets suspended yeah the wires cross the wires cross you know what's really interesting is uh we had a board yesterday and i don't have the exact stat with me but domi is like fifth in the nhl in five on five primary assists it's like david mckinnon like it's the big dogs and then max is right there so um you know his direct setup to holmberg is the great i have it it's number one is mcdavid with 48 to kucherov 39 uh nathan mckinnon three

leon dreisaitl tim stutzla max domi tied with quinn hughes with five with firm five on five assists this season you know and he hasn't had a ton of power he doesn't get to play on the power play so all his creation it's like alex kerfoot when he was getting points you know it's is there any except a different element is there any part of sheldon Keefe when Domi fought that he wasn't just happy for him firing up the crowd, that he didn't have to put him out there within a suddenly two-goal lead? You don't have to put him in the D zone? I don't know, maybe.

Could be. All right, before we get your thoughts on Holmberg and McMahon, let's go to Sheldon Keefe's on clip three. Both guys were terrific tonight. Obviously, I felt Humbert, you know, had some good things going on, which is why I moved him up to play with Austin, and that paid dividends right away. But he was just good all game, and second goal is another great goal

and great finish by him. Bobby's, you know, as we know, has been excellent here, and, you know, he finishes some great finish by him. Bobby's, as we know, has been excellent here. And he finished with some great plays again tonight. But I thought, throughout the lineup, I just thought we had great efforts. Yeah. The McMahon thing is fascinating. He's up to 13 goals.

I want to say 11 in the past couple months. Jesus. His, like, in goals for per 60 on the Leafs, it's Matthews, McMahon, Nylander, I think. Like, he's throwing it in the net a lot here. Yeah. Is this a flash in the pan type of thing, or how much can they use this guy up the lineup?

Right now, a lot. Yeah. Listen, there is something called a sophomore jinx. Yeah. I mean, at some point, he's going to cool off, and I don't know what this means moving forward, but right now, he's feeling it. The juice is good.

There's an expectation from him now that it's no longer of if I can do it, but when I'm going to do it. Yeah. When he's out on the ice. What are you all giggles about? You think I'm. I just, I think you're going to bring it up and be like, what a horrible contract. No, no, no, no.

Listen, I, it's just, it's a side note. Okay. It's not a major story here. I'm starting to come over to your side. He was like, I mean, he obviously will have cooled down, but I think something flipped for him in terms of confidence. There's only upside. Yes.

It's not. Buddy, Pierre Engvall just got seven times three. Who would you rather have at that? Oh, my God. I think the Leafs told him he was a restricted free agent. I think that's what happened. It must have. But only upside.

Like Mason Marchment, if I would have told you mason marchment was going to make four million dollars one day you guys would have looked at me like i had three heads yes right would have done that agreed yeah like but there's only upside for these guys that just kind of can hold it but hey he wanted the security brad tree living could could sense that or smell that and say hey here it is guaranteed one way buddy take it and he did so that's on him smart move forward here and yeah he didn't take a five-year deal at that number the best the best uh scenario for leaf fans is if this guy really regrets signing this of Of course. You'd love that. You'd love a lot of regret.

They're such key guys. Holmberg and McMahon, I wrote this in my article in the Toronto Star last week, that they won't go anywhere without them. They have to be that secondary group of guys that gets hot at the right time

that we, I don't know call them an unsung hero you want to get past the first round and maybe make some noise to a conference final these guys have to be yeah it but i've said this for years that down your lineup give me 27 year olds like prime age guys who work and are trying to prove something whatever joe thornton ain't it or jason spezza or you know whatever hangers on you still have you can't have a bunch of rookies i understand these guys are technically rookies but they're not young rookies they're not 21 year olds breaking into the league they've been playing pro hockey you know holmberg included has been playing overseas i love where they're at in the lineup and and i feel like you could get a pop in a game i never felt like the leafs could get pop in a game

it's a different down there it's a different strategy like we always talk about team a and team b this is definitely a very different strategy for team b than they've had in years past it's not a strategy you're just painted in a corner. They're there because you had no other options but to get low-paying guys and you try to maximize when you can lean on them the most. The good news is, to JB's point, is they're not 22 or 23, still green. They've got some seasoning, but unfortunately it's not nhl playoff seasoning they've never played before the only thing it's not going to be up to them the way it's up to the core who has been through it yes it is but it's can they remain a little calm when it gets

a little bit you're right dicey in the playoffs just play defense until you something happens you cannot replicate the next 12 games for them like you can what they're gonna feel in a stanley cup best of seven series when things are constantly on the line but i like the fact that he keeps going to them he puts them in key situations so there might be a level of expectation that they can just slide right into a playoff series and say hey you killed the penalty uh two weeks ago you're you're great there's no reason why you can't be great in this environment but that's that's the tricky part is you're still asking guys that have never done it before to go out there and lead in many ways. Is there any part of it where they are, like,

the inexperience could be somewhat of an advantage, where it's like they're not feeling the scars of years past and they're kind of the young and dumb aspect? Like, I've always heard that argument, because is that stupid? I think it's a great argument. Like, I don't know. If you're going into the playoffs and you're, like, a guy that knows, they all know the history of the Leafs in the playoffs.

They're not like, but it's just to me, they don't wear the scars of years past. And they're not brought in at the deadline with the pressures of being traded for a first round pick to Toronto as saviors. They're just guys that are supporting. I don't know. Yeah. Sort of be so positive today, but it's just, you know, that's what I'm going for. Nice.

I think it probably lends to who's the real leaders there, and we know it has to be Matthews and Varner. Do they have any scars? I can't remember. And Tavares. They are a scar. They're a human scar. I can only go from the fact that in 1994, we'd gone 54 years.

You look around the room, and there's some failures there, and then every once in a while you you heard something from kevin lowe and it's like you can exhale this guy's done it he's won before messier's won before we had a full a room full of edmonton oilers that have won before when they tell you to calm down you believe them right any joel edmondson to pipe-up. Stanley Cup champion Joel Edmonds. You know, are Matthews and Marner and Tavares ready now if things get a little hairy that their voices can carry in the dressing room? Okay, they don't have a ton of experience, but they've got some thicker skin,

and if they can lead the way, then it'll still be easier for McMahon and Holmberg and company to trust them. Yeah. You earn the Stanley Cup. That's the only way you win. Yeah, they've played eight playoff rounds now, those guys. You would expect some experience. The other crazy thing to me is, like, you're keeping McMahon

and Holmberg in the lineup. You know, they had 12 forwards the other night. Marner's got to go in. Yarncroft's got to go in. Reeves was out and could conceivably go in yeah they sat him both games against carolina i think for he's known there for him to and i mean he's there just blindingly fast yeah so but the point is that like guys got to come out and so mcmahon and holmberg played their way in robertson scores a goal the other night, but he's awful. I thought he had a bad game.

He did. So curious to know what their playoff lineup looks like. I just don't see him. He's a few guys out of the lineup to me before we see him. And I think they probably would take Gregor out before they'd take Nyes out. But to me, it should be more of a conversation than it will be i think yeah nice hasn't been great has he okay what have we gone 23 minutes we haven't mentioned

carolina no goalies elia oh my samsonov oh my who's done a great job of building up some cred between All-Star weekend and Saturday night with about, what, six minutes left in the third period. What was that? What was that? What was that? Can someone explain it to me? He armed his arm a bit and then he got armed and he was, I don't know, his arm hurt. and then he got armed and he was i don't know his arm hurt i don't know

it's two times in the last two weeks where he left the ice one at practice wondering game where i thought his career was over but this happened last year 10 times it happens a lot and it happened in the second round and i think it annoys sheldon keith by the way when asked about would you like to hear the clip yes if we if we have something. We do have it. It's clip one. Looks like he's going to be fine. Happened? I do, yes.

What happened? He got injured. And it's not anything near what it appeared or what I thought it might have been. I'm not going to give you too many details right now, but it looks like he'll be fine. I won't miss any time. That's as polite as you can get without saying,

I have no idea what's going on with him. He's fine. Looks like he's going to be fine. How is he fine? You should have to say you're not fine. When you're basically telling everybody that, like, the injury and the pictures that we all saw together are, like, night and day apart.

Night and day? I don't know. Was there something more drastic? Like, I don't know. Hemisphere? Away? So I think the implication we're all beating on the Bush is he tends to be dramatic about tweaks.

Fair? Or he cried wolf a little bit? It's now well beyond that, JB. Can we count on him when the chips are down that he won't disappear. That's what the players are asking themselves and each other. So you think it gives him an out if things aren't? I don't know.

Listen, and we had this conversation last night on the show, and I'm not questioning if he's hurt or not or if he's faking. That's him. Something hurt. Something bothered him. But it's now about, like, how durable can he be when you need him? And where's his break point for saying, I can hang in here. I will battle this. I won't let you guys down.

I'm going to do everything that I can. And if they're going to carry me out, it's not to hear my coach 15 minutes later go, call me out. That's all Sheldon did in that clip we just heard. He called out his own goaltender. It's not what it appears. It's like your stupid rearview mirror in your car. Well, what's he supposed to say, Kippy?

Who, Sheldon? Yeah. He's hurt? No. Will he reevaluate him? No. No, in all honesty, I think because we've seen this movie so many times, Sheldon did the appropriate thing.

Agree. Yeah. Because if he's not honest, a little bit honest now, then he puts it off for tomorrow, the next day, the next day. No. Just tell them. It's not that bad you know and teams do make assessments on players based on their likelihood of injury like there's no doubt that teams were worried arizona about connor timmons ability to stay healthy yep you know there are players where you go i don't know if that guy is look what calado just did with

bowen byram yeah that's they didn't think he's a bad player. They're betting against... I tell you what happened. The Leafs bet against the guy you mentioned, Mason Marchman. They didn't think he could stay healthy. That's why they traded him. So it happens, and so it's reasonable to suggest a team is looking at a guy on their own team going,

we're not sure if this guy's going to be available to us. And if you're the coach, I don't know if there's any credence to this, but if you're starting a guy in a playoff game, and Ilya Samsonov is 100% in the conversation to start game one, that is not over by any stretch. But, I mean, you're not going to be thinking about this in the back of your mind that he's leaving a game and you're going to have to throw Joe Wall ice cold into a big game

because he left for I don't know what reason? How does that not play into your mind when you're making your decisions? I do think if playoffs started tonight, Ilya Samsonov starts. Not my choice. Even if he starts, you have now that seed of doubt. Exactly.

And that's not a good thing for the bench or any Leaf fan out there that after every save, does he get up right away? Does he take 10 seconds, 5 seconds? Are there theatrics on him, the way he looks, the body language? Every time that happens, it takes the focus off the team and it puts it on him.

And I'm not sure if you want to start that way either, JB. So you'd like to think that with a dozen games to go, there's still plenty more to fight for if you're goaltenders. Oh, yeah. But I think he opened up a window saturday night he opens a window up and then wool pitches a joseph wall to come right back in and steal his net i think you're bang on like it's it's true and then have wool go out and you got to think that the way wool played yesterday he felt it like he i mean i didn't love the first goal I'll say,

but then he, you know, the second one, he can't do anything. Then he just locked in. Yeah. He was unbelievable. He was odd man rushes all night.

And he's a competitive guy. He wants to be the starter. He wants to start the playoffs. How can you not love that if you're the coach and make you want to start him more than the other guy? Anyways, all up in the air, still very much up in the air.

Okay, we'll take a quick break here, and we come back. We'll pick up our conversation on Joseph Wall and his efforts last night against Carolina, including a tough start, but finished rather strongly for the Toronto Maple Leafs, so plenty still more to chew on regarding the Toronto Maple Leafs. On the real Kipper and Bourne show, we're just getting started.

Don't go away. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Frederick Anderson stopped 31 shots last night for a six straight victory as the Hurricanes topped Sammy's Toronto Maple Leafs. Sammy? Yes, Keppy?

Did you not watch last night's game and think, Freddie's going to blow it. Freddie's going to blow it. For my narrative train, I was praying for it, of course, and for my beloved Toronto Maple Leafs, I was hoping. If he was in a Leaf uniform and that was a playoff game, would he have blown it? Yes.

Unequivocally, yes. That took you all but a split second to split second answer i will say when he's on there are a few more aesthetically pleasing goaltenders in the league he was good well he was flopping around a couple times a couple times a couple pucks kind of got in behind him a little bit that didn't end up in the net but yeah i i mean we can have a quick conversation on carolina here before we move on to more leaf stuff but to me they are they if i had to set the betting lines to me they are close to a prohibitive favorite to win the cup i you know you know there's a couple teams in the west you can talk about i guess uh colorado or whoever

you want but man the way they snap it around they are impressive they have a lot of forwards a lot of forward depth very good defense if their goaltending holds they're going to be tough to beat they're not particularly tough no which you may say is a playoff question mark but i just thought the leafs on a back-to-back with travel with caroline arrested getting to the inside like to in front of freddie you know there's no uncontested looks it was and you guys a lot of traffic. You guys brought it up a little bit during the intermission, especially Kipper with the Nylander play. But it felt like so many times, and it's probably a lot of tired brain,

that they would get to like the half wall, and they'd just throw a pass into the middle. Because they couldn't get to the middle at all. And they're just like, please let this connect with somebody. For sure. Saw that too. A couple of feelings I had from last night's contest was, number one, another feel, back-to-back nights of kind of playoff intensity.

So the physicality they had out of Edmonton. And then playing a team that might be favorites, one of the favorites to end up in a Stanley Cup final in Carolina. And good on the Leafs. It could have been ugly early, especially with the odd man rushes. But they hung in there and they gave themselves at least a chance against a very good hockey club. Yeah.

So I think if there's one thing that the the leafs can take out of this weekend is that in the playoffs you get off to a bad start you want to give up half a dozen odd man rushes you don't you don't get the chance to hang in there you don't get the chance to save the game off of bad starts when you're not ready against a very good hockey club and that file that away because it's coming back in the first round yeah they they got away with last night um you know carolina probably should have put them away they weren't very sharp on a lot of those rushes and you know the you have the leafs d some credit there but um yeah a few too many looks against but the fact that they hung around there against a good team still were in it at the end of the game,

you know, a pretty good weekend. You say Edmonton, Carolina this weekend back-to-back, you wouldn't have expected four points out of that. Listen, Carolina's got a $7 million third-pair defenseman in Orloff. Yeah. You know? And Chatfield, remember that name, UFA guys? Yeah.

Jalen Chatfield, because no one really talks about this guy and i think he's sneaky good as a right-handed d could look good in blue and white all their next year yeah i would like that they're just rangy defensemen like think of slavin burns is huge yeah like just yeah long arms they're They're just getting in passing lanes. Did you guys want to talk about how the power player, Penone Kill, do you guys want to talk about special teams again? Do you guys want Keefe on the Canes or on the game? Yes.

He was very sour last night. Was he? So, get ready for some short clips. Okay, well, let's do them both then. Let's start the overview of the Canes game. All right. Sheldon, what do you think the difference was here today? Puck went in off our skate and into our net.

Oh, thanks, man. Grumpy. All right, that was the difference in the overview. Let's hear his thoughts on the Canes, clip seven. Playing against one of the best defensive teams in the league, they're going to make it hard on you. We had more than enough chances to score well more than one tonight. Okay sheldon he's a little tired too he was back to back realistically you probably don't sleep much as a coach after that edmonton game you cut video on the flight down

there you go to bed at whatever i don't want to like i'm not building in any excuses or not you know you lost the game you lost the game but those are hard at this time of the year to get on a plane after a very physical emotional game against the Oilers you get in 1 30 I don't know sometimes you don't fall asleep you know you wake up and again that start really had a feel of guys just not feeling it. The glutes weren't firing. They weren't firing. And they did. They found their legs in the second.

But to your point, it was a lot of individual stuff. Like, you know, it didn't seem not as much passing of the puck. You saw Willie going trying to do his own thing a number of times. You saw. Willie's got to. It's going to get tighter for Willie. And the things that kind of worked earlier in the season might not. He's just, for me, it's not that you want to take that creativity away from him because he's such a special player when it comes to coming through the neutral zone

or pulling a 90-degree angle cut into the middle or whatever but man he's got to be really careful from here on end well i mean after he turned that one over was it against boston high in the zone he turned it over two or three more times in the ensuing three or four games and then even last night last night, he cut through his own end as the last man back, and it worked. It was a good play, but he just has no risk meter at all. The conscience isn't there. No, he's just like, I am 51% likely to do this.

Don't care what happens if I don't, because it's more likely to succeed than not, and he goes for it. So a lot of text on the text line about TJ Brody. Brody, back in. People really want to talk about TJ Brody. succeed than not and he goes for it so a lot of text on the text line about tj brody people really want to talk about tj brody it seems to be i would say the dominant uh topic on the text line we haven't got to it yet tj brody do we want to start with sheldon keith is he gonna say it's quick one yeah let's let's go would you make of how tj played in his first game he was fine

oh my god he really didn't say anything. Can we please save that? Don't have anything nice to say. Don't say that much at all. He was fine. Fine. Do you feel any differently? I would have left him out.

Me too. One more. You know, I didn't agree with you, and then I put some thought into it, and I now agree with you. It's not really a weekend off if you got to travel and then play anyway. It's not a missing start where you don't have

two weeks to kind of still get there. Or three weeks. Benoit's been so good too. Yeah, you know, Benoit's such an emotional. If we're talking about the last week of the season and you're like, I got to get this guy going because we can't win without him, I'll understand that. Yeah.

But 12 games to go after last night could have easily just said, one more to think about it. Yeah, even the whole weekend. And I like Benoit Saturday night. I know, a couple of hiccups there, but man, oh man, that guy just gives everything. Plays with his heart, but he can skate a puck up, he can get it in deep, and he hammered a few oilers along the wall.

Yeah, he's got some emotion to his game. Brody has no emotion to his game. I didn't like pulling him out of the lineup. You mentioned they can't win without Brody. Are we sure that statement's true? No. It's gotten to a point here where... No, Shree doesn't love him.

Certainly didn't... God, I feel bad. I didn't miss him a whole lot. Nope. He only played 17 minutes against Carolina. It's his lowest of the year. We've been pretty positive up until now. Yeah.

Okay? But... Which frees us up. Now to do our favorite thing. But there's a sense that I can feel with Sheldon or Brendan Shanahan or Brad tree living that I like our chances better. If we can get the old TJ Brody back. Yeah.

Because he's still a notch up above skill level. Then what I perceive is a bunch of five, sixes and sevens. I agree. I see it., sixes, and sevens. I agree. I see it. Okay. So I get that part. And love Joel Edmondson,

but he also happened to play the most minutes he's played all year. Could not play a game like Saturday night at all for the Washington Capitals, who are perceived as a much worse team than the Leafs. Although they're now the hottest team in the league, and Ovi can't stop scoring, but that's a point of the national hour. Yeah, exactly. But can Joel now be a 22-minute guy

and hammer the other team's best players every night? No. Can McCabe... We talked about availability with Edmondson. He's the guy who gets hurt. Can McCabe be Saturday night's guy every other night? Yes. He can?

Yep. Okay, I'm not sure about that still. I thought he was a little tired last night, as we just said, for obvious reasons. But sometimes when that happens, I see a lot of pucks go up the middle of the ice that shouldn't go up the middle of the ice. He made terrible puck decisions yesterday.

That happens when you're a little tired or a little weary. Definitely. So that's where TJ Brody, when he's good or at the top of his game, can alleviate some of that. And that's what they want to try to get back. That's, I think, well said. Can you find that version of the guy who's good at defending the blue line and puck retrievals?

Keep them out of our zone, get us back going the other way is something he has historically done well. This year, not the case. Okay. I was going to say. Historically. Keep them out of our zone. Get us back going the other way is something he has historically done well this year. Not the case. Okay. I was going to say. Historically. And he just hasn't.

So I think he's going to play in the playoffs, clearly. Yeah, start. But I don't think he should be immune from the press box. Like, I really do feel that there's going to be a time where you need to mix them out. Like, he needs to kind of be given a bit of a rest here and there. And I feel bad for him. He got immediate minus one last night on McCabe trying to make a –

And shaking his head, right? Yeah, but like why does he wear any of that? He made a perfectly fine pass behind the net to his D partner who then tried to between the legs back pass into the slot. It's like that wasn't the smartest play. But anyways. Power play. eggs back pass into the slot it's like that wasn't the smartest play but anyways power play i'm almost back to morgan then the lily pad yeah me too said the same thing last night on leaf stock i it's i actually like that it's terrible right now you know it never stays

great for too long i i just want it to be. Your pen just went for a ride. I know. You're banking on it being hot at the right time. That's what I'm saying. Oh, gosh. Well, listen, no one's hot for, you know, seven months of a regular season. They had the best February in the NHL by miles. But it's not looking.

Like, I don't, it'd be great if they, to to your point if if it looked great but it's just not going in so you wait for that in the playoffs we do not agree you know what kip i think there's a couple places they really miss mitch marner and one of the biggest is entering the zone on the power play like he makes a couple of moves and pulls up we'll do that drop back to him yeah and he gets it in it feels like his rate it's set up so often and i think his leaf fans you take it for granted how often mitch marner and austin get it set up without marner to me that they're not getting set up and to me i don't see them with a ton of ozone time to even evaluate what lilligren does for two reasons they don't get it set up and

lilligren takes one timers before everyone's set up and then they don't win the puck recovery when push comes to shove boys when marner's back and they're heading into the playoffs it's gonna be marner and riley and tavaris on the top unit which is fine the same one that you went back to that you that you you changed with bertuzzi. Yeah. And now he's now back to where he was prior to the change. Yeah, they got him going. Yeah. They got him going. And you put him back.

And now you're just ready to put him back to where before. Go back to the place where you weren't successful. Well, I think to me, I think of it as like a defibrillator. You know, like give him a little jump start. Okay, you remember that your heart's beating again okay go back and be alive like if he goes back and dies again maybe you got to do it again i'm just at such a loss for what they do like i'm at the point with borny where i'm just like put the normal guys out there and hope the hell gets hot like get a couple

bounces 22 against tampa or whatever it was in the series they won last year it's not inconceivable that they those guys can do that you know okay let's go to sheldon keith on the power play sammy and then we'll get your thoughts after sheldon playing against one of the league's best penalty kills they make it hard on you we had some chances and uh didn't go in for us but they don't give you much so can you play uh clip seven for us again, Derek, on the Canes? Playing against one of the best defensive teams in the league. They're going to make it hard on you.

We had more than enough chances to score well more than one tonight. And then the clip on the power play, please. Playing against one of the league's best penalty kills and make it hard on you. Are those different clips? No, they're not. They're the exact same ones. They're different clips. Oh my they're not. They're the exact same ones.

Different clips. Oh, my God. Did he have a dinner or something to get to? Pulled a string. He only had six quotes ready to go. There's a snake in my boots. He, uh... Okay, we're going to play them same time. Both clips.

Same time. Oh, that's talent. Are we doing that? Yeah, we're going to try. Oh, my God. Shall we play it against... play them same time both clips oh same time well that's talent are we doing that yeah we're gonna try oh my god puck went off our skating we all screwed up derrick got too derrick got too horned up carolina nice effort though horrible and more than enough chances to score, well, more than one tonight.

Almost lined up. Good comeback. Carolina, 85.3% penalty kill on the year. Is second best in the entire NHL. So he's not wrong. It's a good PK. They got good D. They got good forwards at work hard.

Yeah. Win a lot of battles. Leafs forwards don't win a lot of battles on the penalty kill. Who's supposed to be their killers? I don't know. Jake Gensel's got quite the record, eh, since coming over? What is it? I don't know.

15 goals for, none against, on the ice. Yeah, he's been on the ice for 15 for, none against. Yeah, that's pretty good. He's got ROI for Carolina. 15 for, none against? That's his time in Carolinaolina seems like he probably should have got a first round pick for that kind of guy i think uh well they did i think well they might go to the final so joseph wall shutting down the the penalty shot yeah i think was a huge boost too

for him personally three or four times that game where we said if they come back remember that save you know where he made those ones that kind of kept them hanging around yeah absolutely yeah henley shot was one of them we we assume that samsonov's okay how are you for for joseph wall now starting how many games of a dozen here sammy i gotta tell you i'm going wall wall this week wall to-to-wall-wall? Wall-wall Saturday night, Sammy. Wall-to-wall? Yeah. Really? He looked awesome. And you want to get one of these guys hot,

that's the best goaltending performance there's been for a while. He looked awesome. Since his last one? Tradesies. Just trade him off for me still. Go wall on Tuesday, wall on Thursday, Saturday night, Sammy. Two in a row. Wall-to-wall.

Yeah, so this week they have Washington and who's the other game? Jersey first. So the Leafs play the Florida Panthers twice more this season. And they play the Tampa Bay Lightning twice more this season. But those last two aren't going to mean anything. What if they do? They could mean something either way, pal. Yeah, we said that last year.

And then the Leafs had like an absolute gong show against the Lightning. Remember the Brawl game where Stamkos and Matthews fought? Like, it was crazy. That was not the playoffs? No, that was before. Elliot Friedman last night talked about what a win could do for the Leafs

and a Florida loss to Philadelphia, but that didn't happen. So do you now look at the standings and go without that that switch last night of wins that they are destined for one of two teams you know i don't know that they're fully destined i mean you got the lightning that are behind them by four points so i'm not and they play them twice you know a couple of games in hand on boston like yeah they're probably not catching anyone and they might get caught.

They might just end up playing the Panthers, even if they drop out. Yeah, you're right. Finish wild card one and get the Panthers still. Yeah, it's tight, but I don't know. It doesn't matter to me. They're just going to be their underdog against literally anyone, so whatever.

They're not good. Okay, buddy. And we are back to square one in the goaltender controversy. If it was day one of the season, going into game one, do you feel any different than game one of the season about who should be their playoff starter? Yeah. Who did you feel then?

And who do you feel now? Wall. That's not different at all. That's the same. Oh, do I do? Oh, okay. Well, I screwed up the question. I misunderstood.

I think they go with the calm one. The one that looks calmer. Yeah. That's Wall then. Okay. Our thanks to nobody who joined us. Thanks to nobody. In this hour.

It was all JB and Sammy. I was just along for the ride. In the next hour, we're going to welcome in Luke Gazdik, who is fresh off his hockey night in Canada. Debut. Debut indeed. Yeah, that was fun for him. We'll get his thoughts on that,

the Oilers, and so much more as we continue Real Kipper and Bourne after these words.