Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds Bounce Back

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin  Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs levelling the series with a 3-2 win over the Bruins in Game 2. They discuss defensive miscues on the goal at the end of the first period, more boneheaded penalties, Matthews' dominance and Samsonov's bounce-back performance. Then,  to the other side of the rink - the decision to play Ullmark over Swayman and Bruins' stagnant offensive. To close, they discuss whether Marner needs new linemates, depth forwards shining, Nylander's status and how Game 2 changes their perspectives on the rest of the series.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

game two in the books real kipper and born right back at you nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee And born Sammy McKee. Smiling Sammy McKee. Derek Brandale, David Siss, Boom Ba, with you for the next hour on the Leaf edition of the Real Kipper and Born Show on Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus. And always give us a download when you can't catch us live. In Texas at 590, 590.

It's a little still early in the week but we'll we'll we'll look at them if it's a home run we might address it maybe yeah but we have a ton to get into including a terrific bounce back game for the toronto maple leafs taking the boston bruins down at the t Garden, 3-2. Who called 3-2? I remember it was you. Did you say 3-2? I did.

Wow. You know, and 3-2 isn't that far off 2-1, and you just blew me off like an 0-2 fastball. Who did? You did yesterday. I said 4-3. I know that. I'm saying that it would be nice if the Leafs could win a 2-1 score. And you said not going to happen.

Yes. That's your exact. 3-2 isn't that far off from 2-1. It's way off. They haven't scored three in eight games. It was still a good. It's two extra goals. We do not agree.

It's two. Wow. You see these playoff games. They're tight, Kip. That's a big difference did the Leafs find a different way to win without needing five or six is the point yeah hey I will say the idea you were going for with that that they could win with defensive play and structure and all that that was correct they were patient they didn't give up rushes. They let the game come to them, and they won.

They won. And you feel pretty good about things today, don't you? I don't know. I know, Kip, that's not your natural inclination necessarily, but if you're a Leafs fan, I think you got to feel okay. I don't think they played great last night. I shouldn't say I don't think they played great. They played great. I don't think their individual great players are playing great yet

outside Matthews, and there's more to give, and they're 1-1. That's a good thing. One of my favorite publications or whatever I see on Twitter is the Beaverton, and I would like to quote them by saying, Leaf fan who was sure they would be swept after game one, now equally as confident they're going to win the cup. Well, there seems, there are, there, there, this is where this town can just shoot itself in the foot because it's either we're winning the cup or blow it up. There is no in between.

Or should there be? It is just the ultimate extreme. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel today? How do you feel? I think it's playing out the way I thought it would play out. I called the Leafs in seven.

I think this thing's going to go the distance. I think the Leafs are in a better position than they have been in the past. And I think last night's win proved it for me because we saw a lot of things that could have easily thrown them for a loop and bury them 2-0 to come home. So what I saw last night, which I haven't seen in the past consistently enough is the right way resiliency of a team to take something that bad happens to you and not worry about it and not let it bleed into the rest of your night because we had ample reasons last night to think bad things could happen to lose this hockey game

what's number one on the list bad penalties penalties, disallowed goals, right? Both of those things could have stopped them in their tracks. To me, the thing that I'm most surprised it came back from is the goal at the end of the first period. To me, that's something that has sewered them in the past where they go down in that moment where they had played a great road period in the first period. And they're seven seconds away from getting out of it tied.

And that happens. And that's just so easy to go back into the locker room and sit on it and talk about it. And they come out and they play great in the second. And it's a goal that you just have to look in the mirror and go, are you kidding me, guys? Kidding me. We can't sort this out.

Seven seconds to go, and it's like watching an episode of the Three Stooges bumping into each other. Like you've never been told what your assignments are on a face-off in your life. It was horrible. Yeah, not good. What stood out for you on that? Because we heard last

night, you know, we heard various reasons what happened, including I think Kevin Bieksa who mentioned that Marner should have come down. What did you see? Well, you know, it's one of the places in, I did an article with Andrew Brewer last week

about like D zone coverage. And so it's kind of two guys caught between where Benoit's coming up high. He's coming up with his guy and off the draw, that is his guy. And it's okay to come up that high, but he kind of gets tangled with who's the winger there that he's up with.

The Knies? Knies, yeah. You know, they kind of get tangled. So, yeah, Marner just kind of has to hold the net front. You know, when you dial back and look at the whole thing and say, that's the area of the ice that we just, we don't need two guys out at the blue line, right? But, you know, that's got to be the area you protect first.

To use one of your favorite sayings, Borny, that was a soup sandwich of a play for everyone. Bit of a soup sandwich. And give Zach a credit, who makes an unbelievable no-look backhand pass off the half wall into the sweet spot for Pasternak. But yeah, it wasn't pretty. The first thing is center on center.

Like Tavares cannot, it's one thing to lose the draw. You cannot have your centerman underneath you. That's the first thing. and Tavares kind of struggled I was surprised he took the face off yeah I would have gone with camp at that point it wasn't uh at that point he probably lost three face-offs three or four face-offs at that point I would have gone to camp but he went with Tavaars yeah uh that was a debatable decision right not a great defensive line necessarily and like i look at the 2d here and it's mccabe and ben benoit yeah it's seven seconds to go i don't need you that aggressive like it on a lost draw like your first instinct has to be in front of the net

both those guys are so aggressive at the top of the circles yeah like who's minding the net let me ask you guys is it part of the mindset there that there's so little time left in the period that's like if we get aggressive and we make one poke check the period's over and we're out of it. No, to me, it's related to what we talked about yesterday with the Edmondson pinch and the Reeves cover, which we were kind of on other sides of, this is the way they play.

That's right. That's right. We go, go, go, go. Pressure, pressure, pressure. Like off a loss draw in the D zone, Benoit has a guy and he took him out to the blue line. You know, that's just how they do it. So again, it's a matter of situational stuff

where you would tend to be more on the passive side. And for me, Marner's commitment is that side of the ice there. If he's not there and it goes D to D, then Lindholm has a complete lane to come in. But, Kip, you can challenge up. You can't come back. But, yeah, there was no time. There was no time to recover off of that.

And it was just a colossal mistake. Yeah, he's drifting up a little bit farther. It's always angle, what do they say, angle over depth, you know, like being in the right lane or whatever. But yeah, he's probably just caught too high up there. Okay, let's go to our first Kippers Clipper of the day with Sheldon Keefe on his overview of game two. Loved our resolve tonight.

You know, like you said, that goal at the end of the period there obviously gives them life and momentum going into the second. And, you know, the game has potential now to be in the back of your mind, to be similar to the one the other night. We didn't let that happen. Like you said, the number two goal coming back, the Yarncroft goal, was it in, was it not in? I mean, there's some things kind of piling up

that weren't really going our way, but the guys stayed with it. So great effort here on the road tonight and a really good team win. The Yarncroft one was definitely not it. Not it. Not it. Leaf fans were delusional on that one. I was getting some texts.

There's some people that thought that was over the line. You think that was it? Not even remotely close. Same. I do want there to be the technology to physically, like, they can tell if you leave the store with an item when you walk through the whatever. Can we not tell if the puck leaves the post?

I go to the Rogers Center and get a beer at the stop and go, and they know I paid for it somehow. Yeah, you can't tell if the puck has passed the post? So I want that technology, but no, I don't think that works. It's very expensive. That's a $22 beer right there. Very expensive. Part of me agrees with you,

but part of me is like, spirit of the game that's a save he saved it like it didn't you can't see it go over the line you can't see it there's no view of it he saved it he saved it anyway okay but spirit of the yeah and let's not spend a gazillion dollars on a technology that needs to figure out what side of a hair you're on also lean on that one you're in croc get that one in oh i thought he hit it hard i liked it anyways yeah the high stick you think they're never gonna score again the the main a main issue for the leafs coming out of game one was discipline penalties what were your thoughts on the mccabe cross check early on lo On Loco? Yes. Yeah.

Like, it's a penalty, I guess. I guess. But, like, in playoffs, I just thought he went down pretty easy to, you know, to draw a penalty. He got, you shouldn't do that, but you put it in the ref's hands when you do that. Loco put on, did what he had to do to hit the call. And I thought that later in the game they stayed true to the standard and when grizzly hammered down uh devaris in front of the

net it was that was soft borderline too that was a soft call but they called it too yeah so i mean but again for the leafs there's there's time on clock that you have to pay attention. That call, if the official wants to set an early standard and let you guys settle in, you're not getting the benefit of the doubt on that early cross check. Yeah. I will say McCabe has made a few brain, you know, he's a little excited sometimes. He had more turnovers than I'd like to see, more, you know.

Live with the wire and cross, die with the wire and cross. Yeah, that's exactly it. And sometimes the wires stay crossed. The one thing that I've noticed on occasion here is that left hand, right hand, and McCabe with Benoit, there's some times when he gets handcuffed on his backhand and he carves it up a little bit with the Boston forecheck here. Again, that's where it's a little subtle sometimes,

but there'd be much cleaner outs if he was a right-handed shot than picking something up on his backhand, trying to get to his forehand, and before you know it, black and gold are all over you and there's seems to be a turnover much like brody for a lot of this year feels like he's playing the whole game handcuffed yeah it's like you're just every play that you're trying to make digging pucks out against these furious four checkers is on your backhand that's no fun so sure the major stories from last night's game for me are the performance of austin matthews

who you know going to assist and you know the most hits he's thrown since last year and all sorts of good things and then uh samson off also you know gives up the goal at the end you guys talked about and really locks it down after that you guys have a preference or an opinion where to start let's start with sheldon keith on his top line clip three derrick i would say just how they competed how they worked you know uh austin you know going to assist and he's all over the stat sheet tonight in so many regards he's affecting the game positively for us but to me just the way he worked uh where he competed he was hard, physical, winning puck battles all over the ice.

I would say the same thing about Bert and Domi. Yeah, really good. It was a huge goal by Max. Great pass to find Austin in the manner that he did. That's big-time stuff, the way those guys connected there in the finish.

It was really great so yeah i love that line i guess i loved a lot about our game here tonight all the way through the lineup that that's a coach reacting to what you talked about the patience and the solid play they waited for the chances and took advantage the one thing that uh again was a an excellent sign is they give up the the power play goal theeky. And then right away, hard four check. Yep. And their puck pressure was night and day. That's where Boston had Toronto in the first game.

And that's where the Leafs had them last night was that puck pressure. It was Max's four check onholm that that kept the play alive to come back where matthews ended up with the shot that hit the post the crossbar and then max is in a position to bury a rebound but not an easy play either digging it out of his feet hammering it home was a good play by max from the net just but but the play was one off of his initial four check on Lindholm. And that was pretty consistent throughout the whole night. Yeah, I think that's a great point.

It's a real theme of the game. And the fourth line I thought was really effective getting in on the, you know, the role of F1 and a four check is to get the breakout stopped. You don't have to win the puck. Just stop them from that progress. And I thought all night the Leafs were able to get them stopped and from there they're able to bring in support and turn pucks over and play in the offensive zone i think it hurt boston being without andrew

peak they they didn't have their third pair so they weren't able to get the exact roll out of their decor and sounds like they've called up mason lower eye to uh to step in now with peak possibly out for could be the whole series all right well we're gonna get into samsonov and uh the goaltending for sure but uh coming out of yesterday's show of course everybody's question in terms of the boston bruins or who who's who the leaf's gonna see all mark or swayman i mean i said i i don't care i mean i i get that you've switched these guys back and forth for the last what 27 games but this is the playoffs man you had had a top performance out of a goaltender how do you not go back to him of course omar made brilliant saves

but lost one too many, one too many, right? The Tavares ones, probably your thoughts. You're you're it's okay for them. It's okay for them. Truly can't believe that he did start swimming.

A guy was absolutely floored. They got mind after the year from the year before, but I mean, they talk about how they've been switching back and forth and I get it. And I think it was a weird decision to not go back to Swayman, who absolutely owns the Leafs. I know you're, like you just said, it's the playoffs. And Olmark was really good in that game.

And he made a bunch of great saves. You think about the one that he makes on Yarncroft, the one on Robertson late in the third period. Oh, that's an unbelievable save. But if we were sitting here, and the Leafs were the Boston Bruins, and Sheldon Keefe had made the decision to switch away from Swayman, who owns the Boston Bruins in this alternate universe, we would be killing him for that decision.

And Jim Montgomery put his you-know-what on the table, and he made the call, and they lost, and he deserves criticism for it. I could see myself defending him if I were a visual Bruin show. They're up 2-1. Tavares makes a nice play to save a loose puck. Has to go back for it. He has a one-handed puck retrieval. Turns around. Simmers called it just a little bit of a delay

and then goes short side on Allmark that's not going in on Swayman I'm telling you right now I texted that exact same thing to multiple friends that Swayman is stopping Tavares' shot

is that the difference in the game but like lights out saves Tavares's shot. Is that the difference in the game? But like a like lights out saves. But that's the one that can't go in. Yeah. For me. No.

Hey, I think it's to the least advantage that they have some of their own ghosts. That to me is last year they went up where they go up on Florida 3-1. They went up 3-1.

And that was with Allmark all the way. And so they had good games with Allmark and you know, okay, we them in that okay he loses we're gonna stick with them i just think they said hey we we can't do that again we have to go back and forth and that seemed to work to the leafs advantage which is nice do you want to hear montgomery talk about yes on it uh clip three montgomery derrick no second guesses he was terrific um he made multiple uh big time saves and it's the strength of our team um both of them played really well right i mean he only scored two goals uh by the way boys mcgomery's still not palmer's i'm cutting these clips it's tougher listen is it leave the stone a little bit

it it just opens him up right like you there is a possibility that these two goalies could be good enough just to lose this series yeah yeah i mean and that's one of the first things people are going to say yeah i know we're going to talk more about what happened with on the leaf side of things so if on wednesday night uh bruins and leaves play in toronto and swayman's good again and the bruins win does he go back to allmark because he sticks wayman again i think unless it was a shutout i think he would you think he would go back to Allmark? Does he stick Swayman again? I think unless it was a shutout, I think he would. You think he would go back to Allmark again? He said he thinks Allmark was great,

and I think he has a great case to be made there. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that's what I think he'd do. There are some coaches, general managers, that are just stubborn sometimes, and they've got to prove how smart they are and the best way you can do that is by sticking to what you

believe in even yeah right there's kind of a general manager kind of thing we've seen it here on occasion sometimes but that's the Leafs made a decision. I sat here and I said there's things I didn't like

about the Leaf blue line, and I contemplated TJ Brody going in there yesterday, and they said, no, we're going to stick with what we did, and sure enough, it was good enough for the win. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't change much from game one. The Leafs, the way they played, the personnel, the lineup, nothing. They just kind of went back to it, and it was good enough to win.

You know, I think some of Boston's, you know, he called it a strength of their team, the goaltending. But I think some of their shortcomings were exposed a bit last night in that we've said that the decor hasn't been great. We talked about McCabe kind of fumbling it around. There's some people on Edmondson. I've heard people get on Labushkin for things. Like there's people on the Leafs decor. Boston didn't generate much. You know, they're the 14th best offense in the NHL in the regular season.

You cut that down to 16 teams. You have one of the lesser offenses in the league, and it plays into the Leafs' hand. Montgomery talked about that exact thing. Not the most electrifying clip, but he talks about it. So clip four, Montgomery, Derek. I think it's a function of they're defending well it's also a function of we're not playing fast enough like we're we're

slow in transition which is not allowing us to possess pucks and it's not allowing us to uh get in on the four check well enough yeah the only the only thing that I think comes naturally to Boston's offense is Pasternak. That's it. He's a freak, right? That's it. He's one of the few best on earth. Everyone else, and I include Marchand,

has to be a meat and potatoes kind of guy first. Yeah. Yeah, Zach has these flashes where he makes the play, but none of those guys are elite, elite, so it is kind of passed on an island in terms of making plays and again that this should be an advantage for the leafs their offense isn't great they're you know having these sort of goalie issue already one of their d-men is down the leafs have better to give like i feel they're they're in a good spot here and you mentioned the decor i mean if you look on

the other side of the bruins i, this is two games in a row now where Matthews has gotten in clean behind their best guy, just beating him straight up. Was it Carlo? No, it was McAvoy. McAvoy both times. In a million years, he is the most dangerous guy on the planet. How do you let him get behind you?

I mean, I think the one, both of them are not great, but last night it's just a perfectly weighted flip pass. He catches it, lands in the sweet spot. Like you can't let him get behind you. I get it, but that's, I mean, Austin Matthews is pretty good, pretty powerful. He's moving his legs as fast as he can. Like he's just better.

Just bump him, bump him offside. I think he tried, Kippy. I think Matthews is just on a different planet last night so all mark wasn't within three feet of touching that pot no that was i will say cathartic moment for leaves fan who'd been waiting for matthews to break out and two third period for that moment to come you called it one of the better playoff well i will say that you know he's breaking in there and a lot of times you worry about guys and you think like oh man there was never one second when he got behind and

he had the puck on his stick where i didn't think he was scoring i just i i had it in my gut makes that cut to the backhand goes forehand beautiful so excellent big goal all, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his number one goaltender, Sammy. Yeah, it was great. Obviously, some really huge saves, key times. One start at third stands out. One start at the second. So, yeah, he's important. I mean, I thought we'd play another really strong game defensively here tonight.

It's never going to be perfect. The team, you know, they do a lot of good things that are going to stress your team defensively. And, you know, he had to be there for us for sure. So, you know, he's a big part of this one here today. Like I said, it's a great team effort. We had some great individual efforts, no doubt. But really good team effort. Hey, they haven't wavered on him in weeks.

And let me take this opportunity to take the L. I said I would start Wolfe. Wrong. Samsonov got another chance. He was excellent. And now you're in a much better spot, you know, with a guy who showed that he can handle some down moments and bounce back.

And I think, you know, that's a lesson learned for him over this season, showing some mental resilience, which is great. Good things, positive things. And it was hairy at the end of the game. Like they had a great opportunity to send this game in overtime on the redirect of Zaka. Did you hear Bones no the call no i mean it's one of the funniest things ever and then they're all digging away and did you clip it for

us no he goes but somebody blow the damn whistle you know matthews saves that goal right he's behind him and he tucks it back into him and samson at the time i was like battle like let's see if but you know the commentary from a simmer on that one was right and that if you move you may open it up you may knock it in your own net like you just kind of have to trust it's somewhere under you and guys will push it there so you got her done

got it across the line no issues with the high stick at all for you yeah oh no clear high stick yeah I wonder how the official kind of credited a goal. You know, it's very first of all, it's very rare

that they don't see it first. They're at ice level. Yeah. My thought initially was that everyone agreed he was coming from a high area, but if the ref just thought the puck, you know, was below the crossbar at the time of contact, it's okay.

And initially, I did think it was lower than it was. First view, though, was like, ah. No, when he scored, it was a high stick. Immediate reaction was high stick. It looked high stick. Anyways. All right, Kippy. Do you want to talk about Marner?

You want to do it after the break, or you want to do it now You want to do it after the break or you want to do it now? Let's do it after the break. Okay. I was going to go to coming home. Yep. All right. Okay. Let's go to Sheldon Key first and then we'll come out.

You know, I thought. Well, it's just a matter of recognizing, A, that this is the way it's going to be. It's going to be tough. It's two really good teams. You know, we believe in our group. We know we have a good team. We know we're up against here, right?

This is, you know, they're one shot, one win away, I think, from finishing second overall in the league. And a few weeks ago, we thought they were going to make a push for the President's Trophy. Like, it's a really good team that we've got a ton of respect for. And they demand a lot of us, and I thought our guys were right there with them here tonight. And we're going to have to stand in there

and keep pushing when we get on home ice. Any worries at all about the Leafs just finding ways to relax a little bit more on the road than at home and all the doubters piling on? I think they just I mean they've been doubted more than anybody

they can like I don't think there's any more doubt that can go around for this team. I think having won that game and the way it went and having Matthew sort of unlock the playoff stuff and have him play the way he did last night, coming home, but maybe potentially get Willie back in the lineup. I think they're feeling pretty good coming home.

Just to kind of pick up on what I said earlier, the extremes. Austin went from, oh, he hasn't scored in so many playoff games and to like the greatest game in the history of the world last night. And I, again, he was really good, but like, again,

here in Toronto, what we want to do is be extreme. And we're like, we were going to build a statue for him last night. I think there's a better case to be made. Best history in the world game. And it's like, come on, just calm down, everybody here. See, there's a better case to be made for that after game one

when he's just as good and he doesn't get any points and everyone goes, oh, sorry, you know, this guy can't score against the Bruins and he never scored. It's hard. It's hard. It's very hard. And you're right. And it's going to come. Stats over an 82 game season don't come. He didn't get 1.2 points per game.

He got 0-0-6, 4-0-1. That's how this goes. You're going to have good and bad games as long as you're playing consistently well, which he has been. I blame certain people in this city, the media. They just love it. They love it this city, the media. They just go, like, they love it. They love it, eh?

You are the media. Best game, but I'm not like that. I'm not like that. I'm not for Matthews. He played it. I'm like that with Marner. I'm like that with everybody, okay? Just, it's 1-1.

It's the first round. Just calm yourselves all down with this was the greatest history in the world game by austin come on just i i breathed everybody i did see people saying that was like the best game in his playoff career whatever and i think you know to have that moment and have it in boston i think that's maybe a bit of an overreaction considering you scored two goals you got caught up in it too like with the you know know, the most memorable. I said it was one of my favorite moments in the last few years.

I'm a Leaf fan. He's 60 minutes from going pointless. You're going to crap all over him because that's what we do. I did not crap all over him. In fact, I said he was great. He was their best player in their first game. So maybe don't lump me into it. Which will lead us into a marner

conversation right no we're not we're going to break we're going to break and then we're going to come back because uh every everybody's piling on this kid right now i feel like call a witness we're gonna have someone come in and take the stand when we come back all right mitch marner what people expect out of him. What's happening to him after the break. Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays

every weekday morning, 6 to 9. It's the Fan Morning Show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Leaf edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. All in this hour on the Toronto Maple Leafs tying the series against the Boston Bruins, bringing it back to Toronto. Tied 1-1 without offensive contributions from Willie Nylander yet.

Yes. Or Mitch Marner. And there are a lot of people out there calling out Mitch Marner. Yeah. And I'll go to you two first. Like, what do you see? What's justified? What isn't, in your opinion? Start with you, JB.

I remember having this take, like, around Columbus series and Montreal series, and that, you know, it's not that I feel like Mitch Marner's played badly in terms of there's no turnovers, you know, that I could be critical of or whatever it's just there's an absence of greatness which we know he possesses he hasn't flashed he hasn't created in the same way that we know that he can so for me you know the responsibility for him so often has been to get people going and make people around him better and the leafs have a

little bit of that to him now where they need to put him in a position to be the version of him. They're going to need him. They're not going to win a ton without him. Prior to last night's Austin Matthews most incredible game in history, they were all kind of lumped into that together.

They were. I didn't agree that they were or should have been but but last night now with austin's three points now there seems to be a real separation that austin's the hero and mitch is the goat but prior to that it was collectively these guys need to get it done and now it just seems to be mitch well i think all through the florida series there was a great disappointment in all the stars collectively, these guys need to get it done. And now it just seems to be Mitch alone. Well, I think all through the Florida series, there was great disappointment in all the stars

because of their lack of, I think... They also were line mates before. Yeah, and I think it's much more... Yeah. Yeah, I think that's the thing that I'm kind of thinking of, Barney, is that now it's much more separate than it's ever been

because they're not playing together. And I know they had a few shifts together last night where Keith loaded it up and tried to get both of them going. I understand that, but it's much more separate now where Matthews is thriving without Marner and Marner is not thriving without Matthews. Prior to going into the game last night, like Mitch had the most production out of all of them in the playoffs.

He was, he, he, he had scored more than all of them, right? Well, I don't know. Yeah, no, he has more career points than Austin, Willie, and Tavares' window that he's been at Toronto Maple Leaf. This guy's outscored them all.

But yet, it was like Mitch doesn't show up in the playoffs. But it's the bigger games. Yeah, I don't want to talk about the narrative of Mitch in the playoffs so much as, do you think he's played well through two games? And if not, why? What's going on? Do you see who his centerman is now?

He's the engine, right? He's supposed to drive a line. He can't. First of all, they don't make plays. John Tavares is terrific in front of the net. He can shoot it in the net. He can redirect, but he can't make plays. They don't have the puck.

If Mitch doesn't have the puck, what is he supposed to do? Nyes doesn't make plays. Nyes goes in there and he crashes people and he tries to open up lanes where where is the offense gonna come five on five with these three guys can you from tell me from the guy that is an 11 million dollar guy that doesn't have the puck but they don't have the puck isn't he supposed to get the puck? Isn't that part of what makes him great is that he's digging pucks out? And that's what he does in the regular season, Kipper.

No, no, no, no. No, he's got – when he's got Austin, it's a different look, Sammy. What is the desire to divorce him of personal responsibility for playing? There's no personal responsibility. There's not. But he's chasing the whole night he doesn't have the puck he's not big enough or strong enough to go get it sammy he's not i know he's not so like i i just i i see a guy that has to go out there and kill every penalty and he doesn't have five

on five minutes like the rest of the guys he's he's low on his five on five minutes like the rest of the guys. He's low on his five on five even strength. Austin doesn't have to kill penalties. JT doesn't have to kill penalties. But this guy has to go out there and be the best penalty killer for them. I just think now that he's off that line, there is less expectations on five on five. He's going to have to go get his points on the power play.

That thing's going to have to get hot. But J jt isn't driving offense he's not making plays he's a below average passer he can shoot it in the net he can redirect but john is not helping mitch martyr create offense no i i mean okay but that's it's not you know lebron's teammates responsibility to help him create offense like the case forever was mitch is worth austin's money mitch is austin mitch is austin how are they any different he's more points than him he's okay well then there's got to be some ability for him to take his teammates and say i run a pretty good line here and i don't think through two games he's done that i think he can and i think the team should put him in better spots to find that little bit which he hasn't found yet but right now it's yeah it's hard it is hard it is a it closes up there's no question he doesn't have the time and

space that he has much like austin does against a lot of teams that aren't in the playoffs now, but it is a different look right now. And right now, outside of Domi and Austin, it's a tough grind right now. It's a tough grind to create offense outside of that line right now. Well, and the Leafs finally get three goals. They're missing having a third line option and I think that allows Boston to key in on those lines and say and also if you are going to try to shut down a Marner Tavares Nyes line there's a guy that you're going to focus on for

sure in terms of possession and driving play and you know where your attention is going to go so it's just I think it's an encouraging thing because we know what he is and what he can do but i and actually and i thought jt was really good last night he gave everything he has but like i know off air you were talking a little bit some of the things that drive you nuts about him yeah the long distance shots drive me nuts it's like he forfeits possession taking well basketball you tell me how that's helping mitch well it's certainly not no it's it's not helping him at all but you know it feels like passing the buck to me i just think yeah i like i see i know he's just gotta be better like it's it comes down to it he has to be better like if they have any

chance to beat boston and go and win a cup kipper he has to be better than he has been in years past and the first two games this series it is what it is there's no question that austin or max cannot do this by themselves willie has to come back mitch is going to have to find different ways to produce power play uh even strength no doubt about it and he gets hoes last night he makes a good play on the bertuzzi goal that gets waved off he would have had an assist there you know he's done some good things. Expectations are just high. All right.

I mean, shouldn't they be high? Yes. Listen, it's not changing. I get it. $11 million. I mean, it's not like he's the guy that's just like, he's got the big payday, and he's had some performances in the playoffs that have been good, but a lot of not great,

and people measure them against that. It's always going to be there until it happens. What kills me is like, if you're a Torontoonto maple leafs fan you don't look at another team and say they got marchand and pasternak and then sit and fight about which one's better which ones you know during their primes and like these are two the two most important toronto maple leafs for sure did we play sheldon on marner we did not no and he liked it yeah i want to hear what he has to say this he brought this up. I want to give context to this. I cut it into two separate things.

But when asked about Matthews, he gave the full, like the clip that we played about the top line, and then unprompted went into a long diatribe that we're going to play about Marner. So this is the second part of the question about the top line, so if you want to play it there. You know, I thought this is a night here, you know, where Mitch Marner, I thought he's all over the the game too he's making plays offensively for us at

different times you know uh great defensive plays he's playing almost every shift against pasternak and doing a really good job helping us there penalty kill you know all the way through on down to you know uh the holmberg line gave us great shifts. The Camper line was good again. Really liked our effort here tonight. Yeah, and just to kind of, again, this guy's got a conscience for being third guy high better than any of those other guys

over how many years they've been Leafs. This guy plays with a defense in mind. And if it's taking something away from him offensively people gonna have to just accept that this time of year that maybe the offense will not be there if he's not with austin but the thing that kills people kipper is that that responsibility plus the production is always there in the regular season. That's the package. That's why you pay him $11 million. You're not paying $11 million for David Kampf here.

You want a guy that's going to give you both of those things. That's the reason he's high paid. That's the reason the expectations. That's the reason why people get pissed. So there. I think that's all said. All good. All right.

Where do you guys want to go from here? Fourth line. So Ryan Reeves would be really hard like if willie's back someone asked me today who would come out if it's uh if ryan reeves is the name and for me it's not i thought ryan reeves good on the four check physical turning pucks over robertson had chances i actually really liked robertson we're at the point where i don't even know who would come out no it has to be nick robertson yeah yeah i i said this to you guys a week and a half ago the leafs need ryan reeves more than they need nick robertson in the lineup

when ryan's doing ryan things yeah it's more important it's a heavier he can hurt people man chatting with maroon a bit last night that play behind the behind the net where he pancaked two guys and then they drew a penalty on that same shift with his physicality like i've been blown away by how good he's there considering how the first month was much better yeah much better so let's listen to sheldon keith on the fourth line clip six like the line the line's been really good they they've got a very clear identity uh camper camp endures you know those guys they can be really trusted defensively and they give you everything they have and then and revo for quite some time as we've talked about has really done

his job wonderfully i thought he was really good here tonight again all around the net offensively for check really good on the wall in the defensive zone, all the things that you need from your fourth line. Especially now, we've got two forwards out of our lineup. It takes a hit on our depth. We need to be able to get shifts from guys. Otherwise, it's just going to be way too much on our top people. So I need to put those guys in situations, and we need them to pull through on, whether it's them or Homer's line.

Yarncrock's given them a lot of help defensively, but I think Homer and Robbie have done a really good job too. That's really important right now. What we're playing without guys especially, it's important all the time, but without the guys that we're playing without right now, or with the guys we're playing without, that's important that we get good shifts from those guys. Yeah, I thought from top to bottom, the Leafs had better energy,

and it goes to Montgomery in our clip with him saying, we're too slow. Yeah, and I like that Yarncroft is a guy that can take Reeves off when they're purely trying to not get scored on and say we're gonna start you know i think d zone starts he would go out with yarn croc uh camp and doer and that to me feels like okay it's stanley cup game seven you're up to one who's over the boards david camp is your center yarn crocs with him and maybe it's doer yeah i i want to give full credit to david, who I think at points this year, we were pretty hard on

when he did not have good stretches. But this is clearly the time of year for David Kampf, right? Like this is David Kampf season, just heavy. Been playing well through two games for me. What went through you when you watched Kampf and Lilligren have the... Oh my god.

You take it. No, you take it. You take it. take it that was the moment maybe a couple expletives screamed at my television probably you know you know what it reminded me of is like when a guy in your team shoots a puck and it's trickling into the net and someone rushes to poke it in and you don't criticize them because it's not in till it's in that puck's not out till it's out like don't wait for someone else if you have the chance to do it just finish the job don't say oh you know you play through buddy you know go ahead and grab that thing camper and fire it out of the zone please there was one lilligran rush up the ice

that lily's getting stopped dead in his tracks about six feet outside the boston brune blue line that went right back the other way and i'm like oh boy that you lily we don't need a bobby or moment there buddy from end to end rush lily's saving grace is just being right-handed oh man he's got the worst underlying stats among all the d so far like he hasn't been on for a whole lot of goodness yeah the worst on the team right now but he's really yeah which he's always near the top so it's not been pretty but yeah i kind of like brody but i get the idea of not messing with that lineup after you get a win last game uh the other thing we need to get to,

and I don't think you have any Lilligran takes beyond that. He terrifies me every time that he has the puck. It's just Willie. And if we're hearing anything on Willie, I see we have an update clip. Again, there's a lot of extremes here from, you know, this is standard playoff stuff where you just don't get much information to they owe us an explanation. Yeah. They don't owe us anything.

I don't think they owe us anything. I'm telling you, there's people sitting there going, we need to know something now. Oh, I'm hearing that too, for sure. This is ridiculous. And like, you know, the league should do something. It's like, no. Oh, let's go to Sheldon's update on Willie

and then we'll come out and have a chat. Mr. Gargiela, you might have Nylander available for game three. the league should do something. It's like, no. Let's go to Sheldon's update on Willie, and then we'll come out and have a chat. Do you think they might have Nylander available for game three? Well, obviously, there's no update today because not much happening for us here today except for getting ready to travel. But it's a possibility for us tomorrow, I guess, is all we would say. God bless Masters.

Just going in there. God, ask the question. What did you think about okay if if he can't play then i don't want to see him on the ice i don't want to see him practicing or looking gingerly does that matter to you either yeah it matters it makes no sense like he's got to find out he's got to test whatever feels off and see if how it feels well the the clips that i saw i I'm like, I can't play. Yeah, oh, really?

Yeah. That's what I got out of it. Well, that's fine, but I'm not mad at him for trying. Yeah. I don't love the optics, but I'm a Dumbo fan. What does it mean you don't love the optics? Well, if you're out there twirling around, smiling, laughing with the guys, and you're taking line rushes.

Drop the smiling, laughing thing. It has nothing to do with his injury. I mean, if you're out there taking line rushes and you're upright and skating and you're playing against the Boston Bruins in the first round, I might like you to contribute. I hope you're really hurt. I hope you're really sore.

That's all I'm saying. I hope you're really hurt. So what does that mean? What does that implication? That he's not really hurt and he just doesn't want to play this time of year? I don't know. I don't know.

It's just, I'm an idiot. And I watch him out there and I'm like, if he's good enough to do that, like I've said a million times, guys play with broken legs. want to play this time of year i don't know i don't know it's just i'm an idiot and i watch him out there and i'm like if he's good enough to do that like i've said a million times guys i just told you the guy looked like he was like in a nice halloween costume a sore back for sure he sucks playing with a sore back i get it he's whatever it is they stole one without him so maybe they can get him back in there and then you're laughing hey like mitch will break out willie will break out there's they're one and one without them yeah and producing and maybe uh maybe not only is willie going to be in a back brace matthew nye's maybe in a body cast today could anyone take more big hits in one game that you

took last night massive one absolutely crunch. I just don't know. And again, he's learning. He's learning. For Sheldon to have him on the ice with seven seconds on a deep face-off, to me, is just one of those. You got away with that one. The next one could cost you the series. Yeah.

Get camp out there. I had a friend bring over a boxer puppy to my house a while back, and the puppy's feet are giant. It's a little dog, giant feet, and you're like, that's going to be a dog at some point. That's nice for me. Like, he's still in puppy form, just out there getting crushed and popping up and crushing guys and having a good time. You can tell it's the shape of a great player to me i love the guy you can

tell that he's still got like college habits a little bit he's got some you know pasternak rocked him carlo munched him up and so did mcavoy there's three separate rickster scale hits yeah so um we have uh montgomery to close out our leaf segment on how close this series is yep sure let's uh let's finish on that one it's a series we knew all along i mean we were so close in the standings all year long and they're a good hockey team we're a good hockey team it's the playoffs it's uh you know they improved from game one to game two. We didn't prove enough. We need to get better for game three.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, listen, it's going to be fun to watch here. This is, for me, such a pick-em right now. Oh, it's going to be tight the whole way. Yeah, you're going to get better from the Bruins. That was not a show they're proud of. Montgomery talking about pace and playing quicker.

But I do like the Leaf chances a lot more. Patrice Bergeron is home watching. Thank God. What a great career, Patrice. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for all you've done. By God, is that Patrice's music?

All right. It's a good off day. We were calm. Got through it. I got some good conversations in, and we'll continue it in our next hour as we go national. Just to give Leaf fans one quick reminder how quickly things can turn with a potential injury to anyone.

Vancouver Canucks will not have Thatcher Demko, their star goaltender, for tonight's game. He's out. How long he's out? We'll discuss on our next hour.

Rob Brown next. Former NHL forward covers the Oilers for Ched and much more on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Do not go away.