Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds Bow Out, Locker Clean-Out Contemplation

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

The Leafs' season is over after losing to the Bruins in Game 7 on Saturday. Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee share some takeaways from the series and Game 7. How will this series be remembered by Leafs fans? Then, they break down the availability from today's locker clean-out day, including Marner's comments about being looked at 'like Gods.' Later, a bigger picture view of looming offseason decisions - Keefe's future, possible plans for Marner and if Shanahan is safe under the new MLSE ownership.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, we're doing this. The Real Kipper and Bourne Show, Leaf Edition. I'm Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. A very dejected Sammy McKee. He's worked through several stages of grieving. Derek Brandeo, David Siss-Boomba we're glad you're aboard Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus

from 4 to 6 remember to download us if you can't catch us live I'm so happy this show has finally started I can't listen to you mumble I don't want to do this today I don't want to do this today I don't want to do this today

I don't want to do this today. I don't want to do this today. I don't want to do this today. Yeah. Okay? I don't want to do this today. Well, you're doing it. Yeah, you're right. That's why I'm sitting here, pal. And we got a lot of listeners out there that says we want an explanation. And I'm not sure you're going to get it in the next hour or so.

And if we don't, by chance, we'll maybe squeeze out a little bit out of Elliot Friedman, who will be joining us in studio at the top of the hour. So, Leafs bow out in the first round against the Boston Bruins. 2-1 overtime loss in Game 7. Third time in four seasons that they've stalled in the opening round. First and foremost, tip of the hat to someone who doesn't even have his name on the show, our boy Sammy.

Picked Boston in seven. We tried our best, JB, to go Leafs in seven. Were we close? Were we not that that close why don't you start well i mean you're a little overtime goal away from me right so but is it close yeah i you know what's the expression you know almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades i think is the expression it's like that that just close doesn't matter anymore. Unfortunately, I just, I can't believe here we are doing this again. And not because I thought they were like predestined to beat the Boston Bruins, but by any stretch, but just that they really did do the thing

where they rung maximum pain out of the fan base. The comeback to make you believe. Wall goes in. They turn it around. Matthews gets healthy. Again, the rug gets pulled out. It's just mind-blowing that it happened in the most devastating fashion possible.

Do we... We're going to get into, like, for sure, what's next. Sure are. Don't worry. We're going to get into that. But just... How do we look back at this series?

I don't know. A month from now, a year from now, five years from now. Will it be that, yeah, same results, but a different way to get there? And if it was? Same old Lee Skippy. There's absolutely no... No, no, no, no, no, no, no. When you have guys disappear like Willie for the first three games

or a good portion of the middle from Austin, and then Joseph Wall disappears in game seven out of nowhere. It's not the same old, same old, Sammy. This one was like... I don't know. I can't even describe it on how bizarre of a series it was to watch. I think, you know, right now you're talking about that and you'll talk about, but I think when you look back on it, it's just a fourth straight loss to the Boston Bruins in the the first round like sure people remember that with a new way that joel wall got

hurt and people remember all that stuff but ultimately they were right there to win it and they didn't so i don't i think people will those will be little footnotes but a couple years from now whenever you talk about this it'll just be that they lost again to the boston ruins like they always do i think personally it is funny because everyone i've talked to like you're not even allowed to do the excuses thing right but what a strange series there were extenuating circumstances that made it challenging again that doesn't absolve them of not scoring goals of losing four times in the seven game series but boy what a strange one, you know, over the last 48 hours, my Leaf fans, my brothers and sisters

who are diehard Leaf fans, have just been the absolute punching bag of the NHL world again. And, you know, I go on very online, on TikTok, on Twitter. I have people sending me memes. I have people saying mean things to me about the Bruins, how they own the Leafs.

Like it's just everybody in Leafs Nation has taken so much crap from this era of Leafs hockey because of the hype that was brought up. And it's just a really, really tough pill to swallow to have to go over this again. And that to me, and we're going to get into what's going forward, that to me is why you need to have some kind of change.

I don't know what the changes are. I'm not an expert. But we can't go through this again with the same. The whole like could it have been different thing doesn't matter when you're this close. It shouldn't be this close. You got to pull away. And that close to what?

Right. Sneaking through and then losing to Florida or whatever. Beating the worst version of the Boston Bruins in the last 10 years in overtime and then getting pasted by the Florida or whatever. Beating the worst version of the Boston Bruins in the last 10 years in overtime and then getting pasted by the Florida Panthers. Close to what? They're not close to anything. Sorry.

No, no, no. I'm just not feeling today. All truth. We've joked around earlier in the week about burying them and then bringing them up from the dead. And then about two hours, I got pretty much confirmation that wall was out and everybody buried them again.

And then they hung in there. Saturday night, they did more than hang in there. They had at times the boston bruins on their rope they just couldn't find a way to separate themselves but i i thought they played a pretty solid game and they're not they're still not ready to win in my opinion because when it when it was all said and done, still that issue of protecting a lead or, you know, bringing it home, they couldn't do it. They just couldn't do it, especially going up 1-0 in the third

and then finding a way to lose. They made my son cry his first ever sports tears. Seven years old, first ever time, gets to stay up, watch a few games of the series, starts to believe, thinks it's like a movie where the good guys are going to win in the end. Going into OT, I was like, just so you know, I've seen this movie. So if it ends this way, it didn't matter. Heartbroken.

So I feel for all the fans, all the kids, everyone trying their best to will this team across the line. I feel bad. So just judging by your tone today, Kippy. Yeah. Like you're not, you know, the Leafs nation is up in arms. Like there is no, there is no respite.

There's no one feeling good. There's no one being like, what, but maybe one more kick in the can, we'll get it done. No, there's not one, but like,

no, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not,

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not zagging. I'm not zagging. I'm just saying that there's a sense, and they ran out of time, but there was a sense that, like, they kind of got it right this time, not with the result, but just the look.

And there might be some people behind the scenes trying to hang on to that as something to move forward on. No, I'm just telling you. No, I'm not reacting to you saying that. I said, we sat here and you laughed at me when I said you got to win games 2-1. That's all they've been trying to do the last three times. They fell short. Couldn't win them.

No, they fell short. I get it. But that's the first time in 10 years that we've seen them at least have some resemblance of a playoff type of style. So this crap sandwich tastes better than last year's pee-pee milkshake? No, no, they're all the same. No, no, they're all the same.

They're all the same. They're all the same. It doesn't matter. Last seven winner take all games. I'm just, listen, we're going to get into it and I'm going to get into it and I'm going to have my say like everybody else, but I'm just saying that it was an enjoyable. I get your emotion of it, losing and losing, but I don't know. I thought it was a fun game to watch.

This is a baffling game. I enjoyed game seven. I'm evolving. Nothing about that was fun. Nothing. Okay. Now you guys are going super fan on me. You're going super fan on me.

It's fine. It's fine. All I'm just saying is I enjoyed for the first time watching the Leafs try to win with a playoff style. That's all. Enjoy the right way. That's all. You're right.

You're right. And in games, the one that... We're just talking about the game. We're not talking about what happens. We're not talking about, you know, the years of misery. We're just talking about face value Saturday night. I think you... There's something to what you said for game five, six, and parts of seven,

as well as the Leafs have ever played defensively, right? Yeah. And that's great. It is. And I'm not saying that it was good enough because, listen, you're ready to win this time of year. You close out 1-0 with 10 minutes to go. Okay?

Go watch Dallas last eight and a half minutes last night. Couldn't watch hockey yesterday. Okay, I'll tell you all about it then. I'll tell you about it. Couldn't watch. Vegas didn't get a sniff, okay? Not a sniff. That's how you show you're ready to win.

Leafs, whether it's Samsonov who buckled or... Could they score a couple goals? Yes. They didn't need to. One was enough Saturday night. It wasn't enough. One was enough. Either it's Samsonov who buckled or... Could they score a couple goals? Yes. Like... They didn't need to. One was enough Saturday night. It wasn't enough. One was enough.

If you shut down... It's insane to have the takeaway be they need to defend better. How many goals did Boston score in that series? One sometimes is enough. Okay? They're just not ready. They're getting closer, but they weren't ready. And Samsonov was not ready. Sorry. Short again no good no good no good is this you absolving your boy

who's that marner i'm not scoring one big picture he still has more points than all the rest of them in the last seven years so like they're all the, like, they're all the same. Nine in the first series. They're all the same. I know everybody wants to beat up Mitch again. He's the poster boy. It's so funny listening to the media go after, like, you know,

what do you think of Mitch taking a beating? They asked all the players, what do you think of Mitch taking a beating? Everybody had to answer to that. Uh-huh. Okay. All right. Okay, and everybody else? No?

Marchand, the last three games, four games, had two shots on goal and goose eggs. Yeah, and they won. And that's the bottom line. And he had eight points through four games. And that's the bottom line. That is the bottom line. I get it. But my whole point in all of this,

and Mitch was not good enough, but neither was Matthews. Neither was Morgan Riley. Neither was Samsonov when a push came to shove. You're a good hockey analyst who watches this stuff and has a great idea.

You can't have Mitch on the same level as Matthews, who was hurt and injured, or hurt and sick, and you can't have him on the same level as Willie, who missed three games, who scored three times.

I do. I do. I do. It's just results. Sheldon said it. You either get it done or you don't get it done. So you got sick. Alright, well. Okay, well he had a goal and three assists in three and a half games. One game. One game he showed up.

Great. It's better than zero, isn't it? How is it the same? They're all in it together. My friend, I don't separate them. They're all in it. Well, you should,

because they make different contracts. They're not the same people. And you have to make decisions on the individuals that can't get you across the line. Speaking about, we do not agree. The guys who are paid the most. And for the blue line,

it's Morgan Riley. I mean, Morgan, you can't stand flat foot and watch the Boston Bruins come at you at 1,000 miles an hour. I'm sorry. So you hear all this noise going on in Leaf Nation, everyone going, I heard you last night with Ken Navonka

talking about revisiting contracts and how Mitch and JT are probably the guys you're going to have to talk to at some point. Yeah. You know. Yeah, the whole thing didn't work it never worked right four guys four forwards doesn't work yeah two guys are locked in two guys are floating around there with the year left on their contracts it's not

you don't have to be a rocket genius to figure out what's happening here. No. No, you don't. So. Yeah. Just what changes? You said it off the top of the show. Changes. Where do you want to start? I want to start with Marner, Kip. Like I do.

Okay. I know like. I don't want to start with Marner. I know you don't. I want to start with who decides. Yes. Okay. Well.

Yeah. I mean, sure. Okay. If we're talking about the on the ice product here. It's the easiest. It's the easiest. It's the easiest out mean, sure. But if we're talking about the on-the-ice product here, it's the easiest out. For sure. You can't commit to those other two guys five years and eight years and then bail on it 12 months later. Yeah.

So I'm good with that, and I'm not even sure he wants to come back. No. How much can you take? Well, and that's a fair question too you know i i do genuinely wonder because obviously nothing can happen if unless he doesn't want to come back or at least is willing to entertain something else otherwise it just is what it is do you think he wants out of this you didn't really get the sense out did you get the sense out of today do we have do you want to go to some clips already and get into it?

Do you want to play the Marner clip from today? That's everybody's really mad about. That's where you want to start. I mean, we can start with it. The clip one from Marner there, Derek. I mean, that'd be a goal. I've expressed my love for this place, this city. Obviously, I've grown up here.

So, you know, we'll start thinking about that now and, you know, trying to figure something out. What does it mean to you to be a Maple Leaf? It means the world. Obviously, we're looked upon as kind of gods here, to be honest, and something that you really appreciate, and the love that you get here from this fan base and this attention is kind of none like any other so um

you saw with uh the raps a couple years ago you know the love that they still have for a lot of those players that they had to trade off this year um and that's kind of the love you want yeah the the gods rubbed a lot of people the wrong way yeah just listening to the way he said it what he's trying to say is we get treated really, really well here. It just may be the bad choice of words. It's not like, hey, we're gods. We just got knocked out in the first round, but I still think I'm a god.

I understand what he's trying to say, Kipper. Yeah. But there's just too many instances of him being this way with the media. Buddy, I can't argue with you that his choice of words sometimes, and I'm the first one to say. I disagree that he's right.

They are looked at and talked about in that regard, so it's not ridiculous. It's just a timing thing. Yeah, it's a timing thing for sure, and it's not the right word to use a couple of days after you've been eliminated. But as far as the way we know, when they win and everybody's feeling great,

he's not that far off of the ass kissing that goes on between this city and and and their players yeah no that that's he's not it and i think we're both right we're all on the same page here that there's just this like trend of like but there there are there are times when he gets his guard up and he can come off standoffish. And yeah, there are times when you're like, I probably shouldn't have said that. Yeah. And it's with the media too, right? I think there was no way that everyone was going to talk today and we were going to sit here today and go, yeah, I thought everyone nailed it.

You know, like it's tough. But that phrase is not great. Here's what I'll say about these media days because they've had a lot of experience in this yeah it's seven of the last eight years they've been out in the first round so they've had a lot of chances to do this exact same one and i've listened to all those i've worked in this here for 10 years i've done every one of them listen to them all i just would kill for one time for the four guys to have a different tone than they always do.

Morgan Rielly, different tone today. Devastated. Like, looked like he had legitimately been maybe up all night crying. Like, he was devastated. I do have a Morgan Rielly clip. I want to hear it. Okay. I'll play the Morgan Rielly on where the Leafs are at. Clip one. I don't want to stand here

and try to tell you that we're on the doorstep of anything. Because, you know, we're sitting here today doing this. But the belief is there that it's attainable um but there's work and improvement that has to take place um so i don't so how close are we i don't know we'll see um it feels both attainable and a ways away. And that's what drives you as an individual. That's what drives a team forward to either have success or we'll see. See? Yeah.

And there's always going to be that sense that if you're on the inside, if you're hoping that you're still part of the solution, you're not going to give up it's it's common but there's there's teams saying the same thing that missed the playoffs there's same thing with the teams that have been knocked out but it's not like this kipper it's not like this it's like the tone i'm just saying in general though it doesn't matter if you've been knocked out a thousand times in a row or the first time it's always the same thing that you're always going to feel like a thousand times in a row or the first time it's always the same thing that you're always going to feel like you want to be a part of the solution and we're never going to give up hope and but the problem is hope isn't like a strategy and that's what no but it's

not his job to construct one it's his job to tell us how he's feeling about things yes and he and he did he's like sometimes i feel really close and sometimes i can't tell you that we're we're close at all yeah we get keep knocking out in the first round it's actually a very accurate sentiment for how i feel about the leafs kind of teetering on this edge of like god if they got a trade right and they added the right guys you could see it pushing them across the line same time if you give up on a great player and anybody worse any team could say that and right it's just part of the frustration of being a leaf fan is that feeling like morgan are we close are we not close i don't know the difference between the toronto may police and any other team though kippy is that they are the

toronto may police and this version of the leafs with these stars has had more hype than anyone, really. Like, they have been hyped up there with the McDavids and the McKinnons, and they've not lived up to the hype. So it's like the perfect sort of recipe for a fan base to really resent a team when they've been told nonstop by people like me. They've been treated like gods.

Treated like gods, where they've built these guys-stop by people like me like gods treated like gods where they've built these guys up and you've got nothing in return you've gotten one series win in eight years of regular season success where you've been relevant and you've been fun but it's almost worse to just well you'd like to see him care the way it feels like morgan did you know i honestly feel like if i went back and grabbed clips from seven of the eight media days over the last eight years, I could have played them today and you guys would have known the difference. It's just the same tone over and over. With the exception that nobody said, we just got to learn from this.

They avoided that one like the plague. Well, I'm sure they had a big team call yesterday and said no learning experience. Talk tomorrow at locker clean out then. Don't say it. But I don't know. Enough of an education. I mean, you know, in terms of serious takeaways, Kip, like I thought Matthews gave what he could and played pretty well.

I thought Nylander showed up and gave, you know, hats. Did we get an explanation from Matthews? No explanation on injury. Would you like to hear what he said? Sure. Okay, let's play Matthews on his injury. Kept him out. Yeah, I mean, obviously, it was tough.

Got really, really sick after game two. And, you know, playing game three, obviously, just kind of going through that. Still kind of trying to recover going into game four, took a weird hit and couldn't go any longer. That's as detailed as I'm going to get into it. I mean, obviously it was tough. It was really frustrating.

It sucks and was killing me to watch. Proud of the guys and how they they fought and climbed our way back into the series and um you know i was fortunate to get to play in that game seven and just try to go out there and give it my all and obviously it's you know disappointing and frustrating being here today you okay with that just a weird hit no i'm not okay with that that actually might be the worst thing that was said at the press conference today because when there's an information void, people fill it with theories and whatever, and it just makes it worse.

So you just have to say what happened. This time of year, there's lots of weird hits. Yeah. So you think he's soft for a blank? No, I don't think anything. I just, to me, think people need a better explanation than just a weird hit. I do too.

I'm actually shocked that they're saying weird hit and no, like we know. Okay. What is it? What happened? Everyone at the end of the year, you know, so find time to share what happened.

But ultimately he guts, I guess guts through whatever the weird hit gave him. I thought he looked at about 25% in game seven. If that, like I thought he was ginger laboring a little bit, finds a way to get a puck off the half board into the slot to Willie Nylander who scores a goal that we thought should have been the winning goal. I thought he was. Yeah, there's a chance that that ends up being like, you know,

a moment in Leaf lore rather than than and he another moment i mean did he lead them in points yeah with a whopping four yeah yeah he played what he played max and bertuzzi five games and he got four points right but three and one yeah i just i don't know i have a hard time to what okay so power rank the reasons they lost this series if you can do that what do you think the number one reason they lost this series? It's got to be offense. Specialty teams. Power play.

Power play. That's me. I agree. Power play. And what are the two most. And goaltending. Yeah. No, I'm sorry, but never got it straight.

Never got it right. Chasing it the whole season. Come on, Sammy. Snap out of it, Sammy. Joseph Wall gets hurt. This guy was supposed to be in a position by the end of the year to be your definitive number one goalie moving forward. So they kind of bail on him after the two losses to Boston,

and it's Sammy's ball until it's not Sammy's ball. And then he goes in there, and it's not even this. He's not even re-injuring his ankle. It's a new injury. How old is he, 26? Younger than that. I think he's about 26, around that age. He's not new injury. Yeah. How old is he? 26? Younger than that. I think he's about 26. Around that age.

He's not a kid. He's not. If he was like. 25, yeah. If he was 22, 23, I'm like, okay, he's just going through this. But this guy's got a history of being hurt. Yes, he does. Absolutely.

And there's not a chance I would label this guy as our number one goalie going into next year no that is a disaster waiting to happen for a guy that cannot stay healthy he needs to go home he needs to reassess everything he does off and on the ice if he thinks he's got a chance to be a regular starter in the National Hockey League, he's got to fix something. He's got to change something about his... Yeah. From the moment you brush your teeth, for God's sakes. It's funny because these situations like this,

there's not really any analysis to be done aside from you cross your fingers. If he can play, he's awesome. play he's awesome if he can't he isn't he has to deal with that hoping again yeah he has to play with that and maybe you have to plan around that and that's not a great spot to be in so certainly that we got specialty teams goaltending you know i gotta say i don't think barnum was good enough kippy yeah is that no he wasn't he wasn't and i think no he was not good enough he you know there he's leaned on he's the high one of the highest pace winners in the league and he guess what I'll give him credit for being good defensively

good defensively he held did a good job on on Pasternak except you know in overtime when he blows by him he doesn't look at him he just has to be better in these playoff games Kippy and he's like the reason people are mad at him, it's valid. He's not the reason why they lost the first round. No, but he's one of them. Okay, I'm okay with that. But, Kip, they lose by a goal. But where was your $11 million centerman?

And you're like, you validated. Where was he? He was hurt. He was in the press box half the time. Or he was sick. Tavares, $11 million centerman. Okay. So Tavares.

Tavares. Where is he? You get to justify it because you say, well, there's just no expectations. Right? And it's like, no, that's not good enough. That can't be good enough. You're still in a position where you're getting paid $11 million. And he's going to get the same treatment.

Not even close. He's getting the same treatment. Not even close. Well, the expectation is different. Not even close he's getting the same treatment. Not even close. Well, the expectation is different, but he's going to get the same treatment in terms of you got to talk to him and see if he's willing to go somewhere else with the no move. Because you're right, he's providing value that's maybe half of his contract at most.

It's just, I don't know. I guess it's just weird to fight about mitch marner all the time no no it's not a fight it's just every you you see what you want to see i still see one of the most productive players in the league the last five years right and he he didn't get it done for the leafs but like you got to look at the big picture here like even if mitch showed up yeah i'm not sure it would have been enough well i i mean if they he is a key contributor to the power play and it's a lot of coaching but you know if he's better on the power play maybe they score more like he's one of the team's best players oftentimes

been the best player and how many points did he end up with there was no back and support for any of them up front there was no layers morgan riley was not morgan from tampa bay so who's jumping up who's who's helping those guys up front who's layering behind mcmahon another injury prone guy that hurt not having right right so it's like yeah i know i'm just saying man take a look at every other d blue line and just see where the contributions are coming. You got like meat and potato guys back there. You know, they had some success standing up at the blue line. They challenged, they blocked shots, but where's the skill to help out Tavares, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, or you just got to wait for Nylander

to keep circling around and fire one into the net? I think you're going to see some changes there, right? It would be nice to have someone on the back end who could run the power play and shoot it in. I know they tried that with Klingberg. So it will be an area to address, for sure. It was 14 straight goals with three or fewer goals, 13 of those, two or fewer.

So, I mean, Maple mean maple leaves the last seven winner take all games oh and seven 12 goals for 27 against 14 power play so not good enough i mean potato guys were pretty good i think overall yeah and we're in and out of the lineup he was okay i think you can look and say there are positives and i know it's early to turn that page but like nice great series feel good about him i think ro can look and say there are positives and i know it's early to turn that page but like nice great series feel good about him i think robertson will score goals next year like i think there's good things there but ah tough one today tough one today all right any other clips we want to get to before we uh hit the break what do you do you want to talk we haven't done the big picture stuff which i know you know we'll do that after the break okay and we haven't talked about the head coach right no that's big picture

stuff you know brendan and okay tree living and and keith where are they what's their status here well yeah we can get all into that after the break let's do that okay we'll take a few words to pay some bills and we're back with more of Real Kipper and Born Leaf edition after these words. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The J.D. Bunkins Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you

get your podcasts. mckibrio's justin bourne sammy mckee all right uh you still like some clips from saturday night sammy or should we move on i mean which one you like the one that got everybody all hot and bothered was a was clip number number three so if you want to play clip number three Derek and then we can talk about it after that they're a very structured team you know they're they do a very good job through the neutral zone and they protect their net as well or better than most most any team in the NHL and there was they were content to do that you know they were content to do that it gets know, they were content to do that. You know, it's very evident.

Teams play the Leafs. They set up the game for the Leafs to beat themselves. And I thought we did that in game three and four. We beat ourselves with how we played at home. I thought in games one and two, parts of one, but parts of one were like three and four, but game two, certainly, and five and six, the way we played, that's a way that can win

and did win, you know, three of the games in this series. And didn't beat herself. So it makes it hard to get offense that one bothered you the middle part i made people mad about the team set up the game for the leafs to beat themselves yeah i don't know i think he fell into that kind of mitch marner if i could choose my words a little bit more carefully and he followed it up by saying today something about how, like, you know, a lot of teams set up traps for other teams. And, like, he kind of, like, walked it back a little bit.

I think that's where he was trying to go. You know what the strangest part of it is to me by a good distance is him referring to the team as the Leafs. Yeah, that's us. To not just being like, yeah, exactly. I think for the most part, what I got at him today actually was, I thought he, under the circumstances, did a good job because he constantly went to the ownership of,

it's my job. I didn't get it done. I should be held accountable. Do you want to hear his opening monologue from today, Keith? Yeah. Number five, clip five, please. Okay. We're waiting on clip five please okay we're waiting okay five uh and then so i think it was his way of

trying to say the same thing about they forced us they forced mistakes on us yeah right which he could have said he's saying yeah they believe that we'll take chances and give it up the other way eventually yeah yeah they didn't they this year. They just forced their mistakes. Okay, let's hear today's. Today is always a difficult day and really the worst day of the season, which is it should feel that way when you don't meet expectations. And today is certainly one of those days. Now, we're in the results business here, and we didn't get results, and we haven't met expectations. And as a head coach, I take responsibility for that.

You have a team that has expectations and has goals in mind, and you don't reach them, it's not a good feeling. My job as a head coach is to find solutions and chart a path ahead for the group to come through and to succeed at the most important time of year. And we haven't done that. I do feel we've, a year ago, took a step in the right direction as a group. I love the resolve that we showed in this series game five and six in particular to give us a chance to compete in game seven but clearly that's not enough and that sits with me now i mean that was his like he caught a promo

before the conference even started no one asked him a question then he said after that we'll open it up for questions so everyone and i wanted to talk about this in the first day i asked you guys about this this is kind of me thinking through the series over the past couple days but you know you think about game five and six and he always refers to game five and six game four killed them game four is embarrassing game four the further we get away from this series will will be one that i look back they lost it in the first they did lose the series game four they lost the series to me they lost it at three one yeah everybody's like boston's gonna blow it again boston's gonna blow it again and they almost did but nobody nobody

has done it nobody's lost back-to-back three one leads in the history of the game okay the odds were not in the leaf's favor of coming back yeah so that's the series was lost the first four games well no i think kipper i think two one through three games of a playoff series is a total like that's fine like that happens a million times of a million you just the good teams always win that game for if you're gonna if like they make it two two to even it back to keep the home ice advantage the way they performed in that game four will always haunt me. Being down 3-1 is too big of a hill to climb. Absolutely.

That's all. Yeah. So where are we on Sheldon Keefe? What do you think? Keeps his job? Fire him? What do you say? Listen, I think he's a good coach.

I don't know that anyone's doing anything tactically different, better, whatever, but you're on the hook for those special teams. You know, that's a big part of your responsibility as a coach. They go one for 20, they fall a goal short. I think, you know, you've been given some pretty great tools here and haven't really gotten met expectations. I don't know. I mean, I get it that the numbers on the power play,

but I'm not sure, like, when push came to shove I get it that the numbers on the power play, but I'm not sure when push came to shove, he had the right tools for a power play. No. No, nothing in the back end. You went and got Klingberg because you didn't feel like Morgan Riley could get the job done. Yeah, but, Kip, in the regular season, they're 20-some percent. No, no, no.

Regular season. We've been here. I told you half the teams stink in this league. Okay? So you can build up a lot of crapola stats on crappy teams i i i mean they have 40 million dollars worth it doesn't matter it's wrong it should matter no it should matter like i'm telling you say that he doesn't have the tools is crazy.

Morgan's not a QB quarterback back there. I know he's not. But they had a 25% power play last year in the playoffs with him. Yeah, you're right. It's just, no, like for me, a power play has to be with everybody. And I look at Edmonton Oilers right now, and they've got, they're not missing a thing. They got a guy that can skate it in 1,000 miles an hour. So what?

He's one guy. Yeah, but he's one guy. Maybe the greatest guy in the history of the game came from playing the power play. I'm telling you, it's not enough. You got Netfund Presence. You got Nugent Hopkins. You got Dreisaitl, who can shoot it off of a one-foot line,

a goal line. And you've got Bouchard, who can hammer it off of a one foot line, a goal line. And you've got Bouchard who can hammer it like nobody's business, but it is complete. What would that power play look like without McDavid? I don't know what the answer is there, but I know that 11 of the 16 teams in the first round of the playoffs were 20% and higher in terms of conversion rate. Eight of them,

25 and higher being carolina vegas the islanders dallas bruins like the islanders kip they don't have the pieces either they shot it in the net a few times like listen they they they never set anything up anything that looked consistent like sometimes mitch marner was in the bumper spot sometimes he's down low you don't know what he's being told. You don't know what direction that they're giving him. You don't know what anything's going on down there. Like, sometimes.

Results, business. Results aren't good enough. No, for sure. For sure. And they don't identify. They don't. They look like they're following arrows on the ice. I agree with that.

Okay. They don't look like a team that takes what's given and let your imagination run. They look like they're just suffocating information. So, what are you saying here then about the head coach? Because I think if there's one thing

that unites everybody talking about this is that Keefe, and I actually like, listening to Keefe today, like you said, there's some things that he said that I didn't love, talking about the process, being good in the power play, but like generally, you're not supposed to judge people like that. He seems like a good guy.

And like I see him up there, and I like the way he's talking. He's been on our show. He says all these things. I'm leaning towards more on you, that I think that there's something there for him to be a good coach. I think he could take this learning experience out of the Toronto Maple Leafs and it can make him a better coach down the road. But it just can't happen here.

But I'm not far off on that at all. Yeah. He does lack attention to detail for me. In what way? Power play. Game winning goal. Like, and that's again, like you can sit there and you're going to blame Mitch Marner on a 200- or 100-foot dump-in that a winger isn't the first guy in the zone.

No, he wants to cut him off. So it was like, go watch Tavares there, not Angle Lindholm. Go watch Willie. Willie. So Austin got to change. Bertuzzi changed. Go watch Willie. Willie. So Austin got to change. Bertuzzi changed. You stayed out there.

What was the one common theme we've had? Right? Long shifts. Bad changes. Now you're out there, Willie. You're standing flat-footed along with 44. That's the collection I'm talking to. You want to just blame Mitch Marner on that goal?

Go ahead. It's a 100-foot dump in. I've played wing my whole life. When a defenseman dumps it in at center ice, I'm not the first guy to go back in, go get it. No, he's not supposed to go back and get it. He's just supposed to slow past it down. That's his lane. He's just supposed to cut him off, slow him down.

He's not going 1,000 miles an hour. Wow. That's his rule. Sammy. What supposed to cut them off, slow them down. He's not going 1,000 miles an hour. Wow. That's his rule. Sammy. What? No. Sammy the goalie. That one, I'm with you 100%.

Hey, why don't you just pull out a sleeping bag? I'm with you on that. 100% on the goaltending on that one. It was terrible. Hello. Get their stick out. Yeah. Jam them.

Anyways, back to, I mean, I don't know. I have a hard time blaming Sheldon for the overtime goal or whatever, but I just. Attention to detail. I know, and I think after so many years here, and maybe when he's the head coach of the Penguins next year, he'll be even better. But, like, just to me, there's just too many. Like, with a lot of these guys on this team,

there's just too many scars, and it's time that you have to change it. Even if they change Sheldon, like Sheldon right now with his playoff record, he's low-hanging fruit. In what way? You think your team would scoop him up? To let him go. No, to let him go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Is that enough? Here's what I see where the Leafs are at right now. This, to me, is a period of feeling things out. Like, feeling out what does Keith Pelley want to do with Brennan Shanahan? And maybe they don't want to fire a coach because they don't know who's going to be making the decisions above that.

So, you know, there's some delay on making decisions with Keith while they decide what to do above him. I think you're feeling that process out. To go back to an earlier conversation, I think you're feeling things out with Marner and Tava's and feeling things out with other teams to see if other things are out there like right now people want action this to me is a time where there's going to be a lot of like what are we doing here what's available what are our options processes what are our options i don't i don't see uh i don't see anything blowing up th. Do you? You don't think?

Well, we'll talk about Brandon Shanahan. His name has come up a lot. Yeah. You know, I think people talked about the Shanna plan, the time it's had to have success. It hasn't had the success. Yeah. A new, you know, Keith Pelley's taking over to MLSC.

Well, what is the mandate? Like, what is Keith Pelley right now? Like, why did MLSC decide that he needed Keith Pelley? Presumably to make MLSC money, whatever that takes. Oh, God, it's a machine, man. It's making money. I think they'll be okay with money. It seems like they got a lot of that.

I'm sorry. The two of you don't think money is an MLSC issue. It's to make sure that the cash cow keeps pushing. For sure. But it's also to, I got to think, make the Toronto Maple Leafs a priority to win now. Yeah, sure. So what does that mean now?

So right now he's got to decide on Brendan Shanahan. You think he's made the decision? Yeah. Don't you? Or do you wait for the result and then? There's so many. It's kind of complex because it's like, and Elliot wrote about this or said it in 32 Thoughts about,

if you let him go, do you go get another president? Do you need another president now that Keith Pelley's kind of the president? Yeah. Right? That'd be embarrassing. It's like, fire your job. We didn't need that job at all. They're replacing you with a ghost.

No. So that's another question too. Yeah. Right? Yeah, of course like you didn't there's we know at mlse in general there's a lot of chefs over there yeah i mean there's a lot of jobs a lot of chefs you just added another one in keith pelly so trying to streamline are they in it together now keith and brendan is there their mandate to work together to try to win a Stanley Cup?

How is it going to work? Yeah, the change in reporting, I believe, when he came in, was that Masai and Brendan would report directly to him. So he certainly is more involved in the operations. And yeah, that's going to dictate what happens from there. But it's very telling because, like I've said before, lots of experience in watching these and doing these media year-end avails. They always say, like I follow the Leafs media PR Twitter account or whatever, and they'll say, this person is going to be addressing on this day.

Sheldon Keefe and select players will be available tomorrow. For the one they said about, they didn't include any names. They said management. That's a huge difference than normal. select players will be available tomorrow. For the one they said about, they didn't include any names. They said management. That's a huge difference than normal. And it's a very different thing for them to do it on the Thursday as opposed to doing it the same day. To have four days difference, I mean, that tells you that something's coming. Cully doesn't strike me as a guy that just needs to say something to appease anybody.

He's so far beyond that. So, you know, I kind of feel for him because he's in a no-win situation. If he fires Brandon Shanahan on Thursday, then it's a knee-jerk reaction to the noise. I don't think that'll be the perception at all, Kipper. I mean, this has been. I actually think it's tone deaf if you don't react to the noise at this point. I think it is.

You think it'd be a knee-jerk reaction? He's got another year on his deal. Okay, so what is the hurry here? Because it's been 10 years of nothing, Kipper. No, I get that. See, that's appeasing you, Sammy, because you're making the noise that we've had enough, get rid of them.

And it's not the way it works. But if you're looking to make money, the people who are going to pay the money are the ones who are upset. They're going to pay it in two weeks from now, a month from now But if you're looking to make money, the people who are going to pay the money are the ones who are upset. They're going to pay it in two weeks from now, a month from now, if you decide,

or next September, you might want to make a change. There's no rush here, and there's still business to be had here. There's a draft. There's a lot of...

How many people are you going to fire? Let me just... Just one guy? Let me just do a summation of this show. You are fine with keeping Shanahan. No, I'm not. You're fine with Sheldon Keith, actually,

a little bit, and don't think that Marner was bad. No. I'm just saying, it's very complex. I'm just saying. He wants him fired because he's jilted. He's been left at the altar again. 100%. And it's not the jilted. He's been left at the altar again. 100%.

And it's not the way it works. That's all. I think. It's not the way it works. In what? In business. In NHL business. Okay.

You make decisions because. Teams fire guys all the time for way less than this. Not presidents as quickly, though. This is like a new sort of. And he's not just any president either. He's Brandon Shanahan. I understand all that. And there's a different feel. He ison shanahan it's a different feel i get it so are you replace if you fire him thursday are you replacing him right away are you not replacing him right

away who's going to be now the decision maker are you ready now to give it to brad tree living no okay so like so who's coming in it's one thing to fire Sammy, and it's another thing to replace. Many ways Sheldon got to keep his job because you couldn't find anybody better last year. And then you gave him a two-year deal. Yeah, the two-year deal, talk about appeasing the masses, was to quiet the hordes from, you know,

why isn't he extended? Yada, yada. So I'm just saying that I don't expect anything real Thursday to happen. Really? So you think Brandon Shanahan will be coming out on Thursday? Why wouldn't they say general manager? I mean, sorry, President Brandon Shanahan will be addressing the meeting.

I'm just saying it's a feeling of time. I think they're figuring things out themselves. I'm with him. I'm with him. What do we want to do here? We're reevaluating. So you, on the top of our show change change okay has to be changed buddy i i can name you 10 things that could be enough to change and for brendan to

keep his job yeah okay so now he goes to keith pally and he says listen we can't run it anymore okay what does that mean well means that we're gonna trade mitch marner okay is that enough no no we're gonna trade mitch marner and we're gonna fire the coach is that enough? No. We're going to trade Mitch Marner and we're going to fire the coach. Is that enough? Okay, Brendan, you get to stay then? Well, I mean, if you have a guy who's back against the wall and he has to chop heads off until he keeps his job, he's going to chop heads off.

We're going to get it. But where's the cut line for Brendan in that meeting? What's enough to keep Brendan? What's enough to keep my job? But at the end of the day with this organization with the you know the lack of accountability that there's been since day one and all these guys getting everything they've ever wanted before they did anything for the team all of that has been underneath shanahan and if you just trade this guy and trade this guy

and fire the coach if he's's still there, nothing changes. I'm not arguing with that. I'm not arguing. It's the same. It's the same thing. Just different guys around it. It's valid, and there's no argument against it. I'm just telling you the different scenarios that can go behind the scenes. How heartbreaking it is for me to be having this conversation.

There's a few things that excited me more as a Toronto Maple Leaf fan than when Brandon Shanahan got hired 10 years ago. I was like, we got Brandon Shanahan as the president. Here come the Cubs. And it just hasn't worked. And it breaks my heart. Brandon Shanahan is one of my favorite hockey players of all time. To have this conversation, it kills me.

But at some point here, you got to have a systematic change. For me, how far is Brandon in with Keithith pelly to really truly have a conversation i know they've had some dinners together but how deep are you already into hey tell me about your 10 years here yeah right and in great detail there's actually a fair point to be made that there's a lot of information to tell me a lot of dessert and coffee in that dinner. Tell me about Nick Foligno. Tell me about that trade. Was that you? Was that Kyle Dubas?

Did you believe your scouts? Or no, that was just you. So a lot of things are going on behind the scenes right now, and I don't think anything's been definitively defined yet. Does that make sense? Was that an hour? I guess. I don't know. Usually when he plays the music, he's wrong definitively defined yet. Does that make sense? Was that an hour? I guess. I don't know. Usually when he plays the music, he's wrong.

Derek Reddale. Did he get it right today? I felt good, boy. I feel better. Oh my gosh, that's a fast hour. I gotta tell you, I don't. Alright, the good news is we're still at it when we go national, and we'll welcome in Elliot Friedman. 32 Thoughts, Hockey Night in Canada. He'll give us

some goods on the Toronto Maple Leafs moving forward. New coach or not. We're back after these words.