Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds Cut Ties with Sheldon Keefe

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to the news that the Toronto Maple Leafs have relieved Sheldon Keefe of his coaching duties. They discuss the timing, react to Keefe's video announcement and project what comes next for him. Then, they go through candidates and list what qualities the Leafs need most in their next head coach. Later, looking ahead at on-ice changes could be in store for this offseason. The DailyFaceoff's Frank Seravelli (36:18) shares the latest on the Leafs' coaching search, whether Joel Quenneville can factor in, the possibility of a trade and the market for Marner & Tavares and how much interest they have in retaining UFAs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right derek brandale says we are good to go he's alongside david sis boom ba upstairs pushing all the right buttons i'm nick caprios justin born sammy mckee it's the real kipper and born show leaf edition a very interesting Leaf edition to our show. So wherever you are watching, listening, Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. Glad you're aboard. If you can't catch us live,

download us wherever you get your pod. A good day today for us anyways. We got together, the three of us, along with Kevin Bieksa. Fun day today. Fun day. That was awesome. Where we also learned

of the news of Sheldon Keefe. Yes. I think it was the first hole. It was at the wrong time in the day for a bunch of Leaf guys. I had got a call saying that he was

no longer the coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. And then you parred six straight holes. Then you guys asked me if I was tweeting it. I'm like, no, let Elliot do that. Somebody else do that. I'm focusing on trying to go minus one

in the front nine at your golf course. But thanks for having us today. Yes, thanks for coming. Awesome having you guys here. Best part of the day, beating Sammy and Kevin Bieksa. Team Kipper and Bourne. On our match play where Kevin bought lunch. Yeah, because of me.

I missed that. That birdie putt on 11 from two feet will haunt me. Sammy almost did. Had a hole in one. Had a two-footer. We made him putt. As you can see, these guys, if you're watching on Sportsnet, you can see that these guys had a chance to have lunch and have a shower.

I came straight here. I got the golf. it's very appropriate that on a day the head coach of the toronto maple leafs gets fired because of a bad playoff outing and golf involved that i'm wearing a golf outfit it works out well and i can hear everybody right now going i don't care on this day you guys start us off with your stupid match today and you're not discussing sheldon keith no longer the head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, relieved of his role as head coach, as announced by Brad Treeliving through the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And, all right, just open it up, JB. I mean, no real surprise, but I'll let you say that. Yeah. You know, we've been saying that this is kind of one of the few buttons they had to push. Couldn't be the same. Didn't seem like Shanahan was going somewhere. You know, making a trade of a big player, which we'll get to,

is complicated. This just felt like he had had enough tries, you know, where you basically said someone else has to have a turn at this. You guys know I think he's a good coach and did a good job here. I think he can be proud of his time with the Leafs. I think his 665 winning percentage is the best among regular season coaches of the minimum 300 games. But, alas, he did not get over the hump, and he said so himself today.

He accepts and understands why it happened. I do, you know, look at his time here. And like you said, the 665 point percentage in minimum 300 games, you know, the worst playoff series record, minimum five series. Frank Patrick never won one in seven tries. Bob Barry went one in seven. Sheldon Keefe went one in five. The amount of stuff that didn't go their way in one, like,

we have a chance, you know know they hired him after babs got fired and he was looked upon as a sort of you know fresher mind and all this the next one yeah a couple bounces go different ways here for him and listen he had his mistakes he's made him like any coach does yeah but the game sevens the game five in the bubble like all these little things that just didn't break their way completely changed the narrative on what it could have been with sheldon keith here and i i think it's the right choice i think it was time to go but i don't like could have been a lot better for sheldon yeah it just was as much the other day a little unlucky listen i i think the best coaching we've seen, I saw out of Sheldon Keefe for probably the last month, six weeks,

where he looked for the first time as a really solid NHL, how to get your team ready for the playoffs, what should they look like. All of that came at the very end and yes they were one goal shy of advancing to the second round but too late yeah too late the stubbornness the being reluctant to change your lines and give a different look from Austin to Mitch to Tavares to Nylander? It's just something that we haven't really looked at much. Like, why did it take you so long, right?

The announcement that we're going to try Nylander at center at training camp and it never got a sniff. Never. Like, just it never got a sniff. Never. Like, just too late for the guy. You know, you hear people saying, it's more commonly accepted, that a coach in his second stop tends to have his most success. That tends to be why. And the reason is you learn a lot of lessons your first time around.

And I think if Sheldon looked at the early part of his tenure here, where it was, we're going to be puck possession, we're not going to be this Babs, go forward, dump it in, we're going to hang on, we're going to be puck possession we're not going to be this babs go forward dump it in we're going to hang on we're going to make plays eventually they got back to babs way right they got back to this possession thing is killing us in playoffs and we're in our own zone and it felt like some wasted less gambling less uh cheating no willie and maybe others floating around the far blue line for that that stretch pass that i've hated for three years four years that kind of got cleaned up at the end but not enough time for sheldon no not enough time and not the wrong decision um necessarily so

you know i guess i don't hear anyone saying this is stupid they shouldn't have done it it's a lot of what now right because they did get rid of a coach who had success here was familiar with the program and they had some stability the writing was on the wall and if i'm not mistaken he didn't have to speak earlier in the week but chose to yeah yeah so that was that was a sign that uh he wasn't going to make it to friday he had some idea and then today he took to social media and had the chance to to make a statement and i think instead of going on a bunch of shows he's just decided to just yeah say what he had to say i mean i was kind of surprised to see it because we did hear from him he probably did it earlier in the week ago he probably knew he was you know he's like i'll put this in the can for when i need it

i found it a little sappy but do you want to play it we have it sure we have we actually have a video on that if you want to play it yeah we don't play it yeah the whole station yeah time has come to say goodbye writing down a note and sending it out didn't seem like enough and i oh did we stop it here we go there we go there he is are we playing it just his face is he in the bahamas where is he right now he could be anywhere on the globe essentially but a desert we we think we think like you know we're we're thinking lake ont, a cottage. He might be in Cabo. I don't know. He might be in Cabo.

But for those of you that cannot see our video or our show on Sportsnet, he taped this in front of a lake or a body of water. And it's a beautiful setting. You know what? Part of it is like he's in his own heaven. There's like this relief. Right? Are we doing this?

I don't know. Are we doing this? Or can anybody up there talk to me? All right, let's play it. Let's play it. Let's play it. Can't hear it. I'm down a note.

I'm sending it out. It didn't seem like enough. And I do plan on taking a little break from media. So here I am. I'm forever grateful for the opportunity to coach the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's a dream come true for a boy from Brampton. I want to thank Kyle Dubas, Lou Lamorello, Brad Treliving, Brandon Pridham, Brendan Shanahan, Larry Tannenbaum and the MLSE board for giving me this opportunity to work with the Marlies and Leafs. I didn't get it done in the playoffs. I didn't help push our team over the line and deliver.

I accept responsibility for that. No excuses. That's the job. I didn't get it done. It's the reality of the business and I accept it. To the players, I appreciate all your efforts. Your talents and your work ethic made me look good on a lot of nights. Anyone who suited up for blue and white, I appreciate you. To the support staff of the Maple Leafs, you're tremendous people and you're a lead at what you do. Players and support staff will drive the team to success. I believe it will win. Leafs Nation, you deserve your Stanley Cup. Your passion at home and on the road is unmatched.

It's an incredible honor to coach the Maple Leafs, to try to deliver for you. To the media, I had to deal with you every single day, sometimes twice a day, three times a day. I appreciate your process.

I've respected the fact that you're honest and fair and had a job to do. I hope you appreciated the fact that I helped you do it. I don't know what comes next, but I know I'll be ready for it. In the meantime, I'll enjoy giving my family the

time that they deserve. Love you all and be well. And thank you to the Real Kipper and Bourne Show who came up with some wonderful ideas, which I never used any of them. Not to make light of this, because you got man lost his job, but I can't help but think of Anchorman.

He's like, I've got some urgent and breaking news. Cannonball! That's all I can think of. We're laughing. He's got a two-year contract extension at some millions of dollars per year. It actually looked like he was sitting on a ski-do and he might just rip off. He's sitting probably on four mil U.S. the next two years. I'd have that smile on my face too in front of a beautiful lake or ocean.

There has to be some relief. Like I did a good job over my years there. I didn't get it done. I can hold my head up high. But he said that on what? Monday? Yeah. He said it already.

Yeah. But that's fine. He didn't hurt himself. No. And let's be honest. That's not for media or the fans. That's for the next team. Yeah.

And I think that's how you go about it. I think that is as classy as it gets. Blames himself. Thanks, everybody. Puts it out. Smiling right in front of a lake. Yeah. And everyone's like, oh, he's a great guy.

You're right. Like, he got flooded with calls today. I'm not going to take every individual call. Put this thing out there. Put it to bed. Nobody's going to be asking for anything else anytime soon now. Just hang out. Yeah.

Really, there is something freeing about that video. So, good on him. He's, you know, he can probably have some other opportunities, I would imagine, very soon. So go ahead. I was just going to say, like, you know, you talk about how he did a good job and, like, he had a great winning percentage.

But, you know, he will be a big part of the legacy of this group, of the, like, people will look back on it and, like, you know, you talk about the regular season record. But a lot of his teams here, they didn't really get it done. And I think he knows that, and I think that's part of the $3 million or $4 million USD helps that or whatever, but that will be part of his legacy here. There's no question.

You can't get by it. It just seemed like he never got it right with this group. And just in terms of when to push them hard or when to back off, it was always questioned, right? And then there was that very famous backpedaling on soft. What was the magic word? You can call them soft and purposeless. That's how we play.

Soft. There you go. Right? But, you know, this is all, I mean, this market is going to do this is all, I mean, this market, it's going to do this to whoever is the coach, but I do think the first time you're a head coach to be handed the Toronto Maple Leafs and these tools,

that's a handful. Like, that's a learning experience in itself, and I imagine you have some confidence after that. Yeah, I mean, him going somewhere else now, like, I saw, I don't know who I saw, but the Devils may be interested like going to somewhere else after being the leafs head coach it's like oh god this is you know this is a lot i don't think he doesn't go somewhere else you don't think i bet you he doesn't coach take a year the skewers boys are like i think you know they're

if there's an opportunity there and it's... You don't make any more money to go do it. I guess it's just that there aren't many opportunities. Well, you're going to cover your $2 million. The question is, do you want to sit home on the couch making $2 million or do you want to go work on an NHL bench making $2 million? Yeah. I'm asking the wrong guys.

You want my answer? Couch, couch, couch. I'm finding you on the first tee no no i i i get it i there's not many jobs so you have the chance to win when the leaf scheduled their press conference their managerial press conference it was for thursday and then they pushed it back to friday and now we know why. Right? But it is a little like, had they planned then to fire Sheldon on Thursday? And if so, why? Why was it not done Tuesday or Wednesday?

They were making phone calls all week. And I'll ask you, or ask you, Nick Kiprios, have they made phone calls to anyone in particular that you're aware of? Yes. Oh. Yeah. Craig Berube.

He has taken a call. Todd McClellan. Okay. Joel, there's been calls in for Joel Quenville. Inquiries and calls in to find out his situation. Yeah. And this is part of what makes Brad Tree Living Brad Tree Living. He's making calls.

What's out there? What's available? What isn't available? Let me know. That's what's been going on all week. It does feel like the Leafs have the money and Berube is the big name. What do you think about Joel Quenville? Let me ask you, JB.

Well, that's a loaded question. For sure it is. I just don't know. I still don't feel like I know what happened in Chicago. And so I think he's the best available coach. And I think he would do a really good job with this group. I'd like to see him as the coach. I don't know.

It's the baggage. It's a lot of baggage. And it's a distraction on top of, you know, if you have moral issues, does that affect a certain portion of the fan base? I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it. It's a big statement. And, you know, I think if you are hiring joel quenville you were that is a change in

philosophy for the toronto maple leafs in terms of the like not willing to have cory perry i've often i've often joked that like the leafs are they want to win the pr cup as opposed to the stanley cup like they really care about the public perception and they're very involved the community and all the different people that they've hired and all this stuff. If you do that, you are prioritizing the on the ice, we're winning product over your public relation. And I don't know if it's the right choice.

If Joel Quenville is the head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs, probably going to be pretty excited as you know, he's a Stanley cup winner and all he's been out of the game a while, but it's a complicated one for me. I really don't know how to feel about it yet. That one takes some thinking for me. Yeah, I don't know where in terms of public perception would be. Hard hire for a new GM and Brandon to make, don't you think?

Like given their statuses. Like Brandon feels like he's kind of, he's on thin ice. I think is probably, he might say the same about his own position. And Tree's pretty new. That feels like a hard hire to make do you think it's likely like it's a no no no no so it's uh of course if there wasn't the baggage yeah they would he's one of the most successful coaches in history yeah he it would Babcock-like, whereas, yeah, we've got some things underneath it. Remember the story about Guy Boucher almost being named head coach, being in the same building, but we're going to go get the big whale.

We're going to go get the... And Joel would be the big whale here without the baggage, but they're tied forever. So I don't know whether or not the media or the fan perception will be like not comparing situations, of course, to Corey Perry, but not a lot of people ended up still trying to figure out what happened to him in Chicago. It's over and everybody's moving on.

I don't know if that can happen here or not. I have no idea. I grew up in this town. I've watched it for my whole life. I can't even answer. I can't even come close to answering yes or no on that. A lot of questions. How long has he been out now?

Three years. Three years, right? Because I was there in the first year we did this show that that was that was all coming out so yeah three years i i don't know like i how long is a how long is long enough maybe never coming back would not be long enough for people i just i don't know definitely that's the answer and some people's i don't yeah but i don't know that but i i just i don't know yeah i it's a complicated one but do you think so who are they calling on that kipper they call in the league about it It's a complicated one. But do you think, so who are they calling on that, Kipper? They calling the league about it?

They calling him about it? Do you think he would want to do it? Listen, he went on Strick's podcast two weeks ago, three weeks ago. That was a while ago. A month ago. Whatever it is. You're going there so you can start to rehabilitate your image or, you know, what people perceive of you.

You're not going up there just to do Andy a favor. You're trying to find a way to get your name and your reputation back in some way, whatever that means, and to coach again in the National Hockey League. And I think he will coach again. I don't think it'll be here. I think tomorrow morning at the press conference, they're going to tell us that Craig Berube's been named the coach.

You do? I'm not sure if that's going to happen that quickly. I don't know. You could be right. I'm just, we're spitballing here. I don't get a sense that it's going to be that quick here. What about the assistant coaches? They still have their job.

I don't know if they were ever mentioned today. No, they weren't. But you want one of the coaches that went 0 for a gazillion on the power play? 1 for a gazillion on the power play? No, not really. It makes no sense to get rid of sheldon and then bring anyone back from that the the pk had been good in years past but wasn't this year yeah you know mike van ryn he's an interesting one because he worked with barubi

yes there might be a chance that if you hire craig barubi he says i want him i've worked with him before and he i want him to stay. I'm sure that's a conversation that could happen, or the Leafs say, no, we want fresh people here, new ideas. Yeah. You know, it's tough to know, right? Like, you don't follow the St. Louis Blues close enough to know if Berube is, like, some sort of master tactician.

Yeah. Do you think that's what they need? Well, here's... Go ahead. I was just going to say, though, but is he the whale right now for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Because I keep hearing Todd McClellan is of great interest to the Leafs as well.

They're making calls on him in terms of more research on him. People speak very highly of todd yeah you know luke fox had an article today and in the article he talked about how sheldon keith got all these things right but one thing you know and the players said all the right things in their exit interviews about sheldon but no one ever said like i would run through a wall for that guy like that guy inspires me to go. I would just, whatever it takes.

Berube, I don't think gets all the little things right necessarily, but I think he does inspire guys. So we had a great conversation with Kevin Bieksa, and we just weighed out the pros and cons of X's and O's compared to a guy that can just make you feel like you just described. Well, you watched, I mean, they had those clips of the Sheldon pregame stuff where he was talking about getting the team ready and him going into game seven overtime.

Like, let's have fun with it. And I was like, okay. And then that side-by-side with the clip of Berube before game seven against the Bruins when he was coaching the Blues. We're a good hockey team like he's just like it's just a different thing completely yeah and you know i i think after all those years of keith wouldn't a little bit of a curveball change up probably be the direction you'd want to go in the short term sure yeah that's what i mean so that conversation you're

talking about did kevin give you a conclusion his opinion on what yeah yeah find a guy that can push the right buttons in terms of motivation and inspire you know the nhl is a copycat league and you look at the systems the leafs play you know they're one of i don't know half the league probably uses a one two two in the neutral zone you know there's not many ways to forecheck you can send an extra guy if you want but everyone's kind of doing similar things special teams to me is actually embarrassing for the league that teams don't get more creative than they do but the point i'm making is that it does feel like motivation matters when everyone does some version of the same thing i don't think anyone's coming in with you know what is it in uh total football you know is it the netherlands yeah you know like no one's coming in here and playing positionless hockey in the NHL anytime soon.

Felt like Sheldon tried that at the start, kind of. Well, everyone has this fantasy that it was heading there. Yeah. And it never, you get to playoffs and the curve of the game didn't curve. It just stayed straight. In about, what, 12, 15 minutes, we're going to welcome in Frank Cervelli from Daily Faceoff. And we'll get maybe some more names out of him.

We'll get the latest on what he's hearing. But in the meantime, we have to have a conversation on tomorrow and what we expect out of tomorrow between MLSC CEO... Keith Belly. Keith Belly, President Brendan Shanahan, and General Manager Brad Treliving. So the floor is yours, JB. What do we expect? I expect a lot of saying the right thing.

The results haven't been there. We understand that. Things have to be different. We can't just run it back. The only thing I'm really going to be paying attention to here well obviously any coaching announcement but in the past they've made strong commitments to the core four and we believe that we're close and we're i'm curious to see if the tone struck is different in the past i didn't disagree with running it back i'm different than a lot of people i did disagree with like not making those guys wonder or worry for a sec like

immediately being like you guys are fine. Don't have a moment where you feel like you're twisting in the wind. It's okay to make people a little nervous sometimes, and in the past they've been very reticent to do that. I wrote an article today for my weekly article on the Toronto Star, and I basically said the opposite, that you've got to make hard decisions now. That would include the easiest way to alleviate the salary cap.

And I pointed the direction of the contracts with Mitch Marner and John Tavares. One more each for them going into UFA. And the focus has to be as early as this summer on better balance in your lineup, better balance on the salary cap, which includes focus on the blue line and goaltending. How soon could something like that take place? Like you can't, you can make trades now. You can make trades as long as they don't include

anybody that's currently playing. Rarely happens, though. They can't think of it ever happening. No, it has happened. They're not big trades, but there are some minor league trades that have gone on the last few years between non-competing clubs.

I'm sure Gary would love it if Philly's traded Mitch Barner during the Florida-Dallas final. At least that would be interesting. And no one's talking about the game. Yeah. Well, that's going to be something to keep an eye on. It's interesting that you include Tavares in that, that you think that both guys could get approached.

Now, it is contingent on both players at least being willing to consider other opportunities you think mitch would yeah i do yeah i do because uh uh we can certainly sit here and discuss and debate whether or not you know he's just had his fill of being the whipping boy and not he's sure he feels like he's happy to share the blame but somehow i get the brunt of it a lot more than the marner or the the matthews and the rileys and the tavaruses and the kneelanders and he could be very well tired of it at this point in his career and look for a change in itself on that but But the driving force for me, which I mentioned in my article today,

was that this guy is still in his prime. He's going to max out a seven- or eight-year deal, and he will continue to be amongst the highest-paid players in the game, which could mean, on an eight-year deal, upwards of $100 million. That trumps staying and playing for your local team. Particularly if you play income, you know, no tax, you're in Nashville or you're in Carolina or you're in, you know, Florida, whatever. Or Vegas.

Or Vegas. Utah. Utah, what's the tax situation in Utah? I think it's a lower tax rate. But anyway, I don't know exactly. But yeah, I could see that incentivizing him a little bit to make that decision. And then it comes down to what sort of value

a guy like Mitch Marner has, because obviously he's the 100-point guy. He's young. I've just been informed Utah has a 4.85 percent tax rate does that help anyone no i don't know i don't know it's so it's it's not a a no state tax it's low it's low and what do we have here 100 percent tax um if you were gonna trade mitch marner yeah and i asked this question to both you guys guys. That's a massive trade for the franchise

in terms of... Sure. Nailing it. Yeah. Getting everything right. Like, what are you looking for in return? Curve, let it pass and bury, ideally.

Oh, my God. Exactly. Curve, let it bury. No, but honestly, like... That's a good lesson learned, is it not? That is a lesson. Is it...

Are you prioritizing trying to find defense? Are you looking to restock the coverage with picks? As long as you have salary cap freedom, then you can either find a blue chip player now, or you could just take assets in and of itself. If you gave him away. Two first rounders, a prospect, instead of your stud 26-year-old D,

you can get him on the UFA now. Yeah. So it doesn't really matter, Sammy, as long as you have... Oh, I think it matters. No, what matters is that you bring back valuable assets that you can even flip at the trade deadline. There's no need to say,

I have to get a number one D for Mitch Marner now. As long as you move his 10.90, I can go get him in UFA. Yeah, I can go get Pesci or Montour. We were talking about forwards we want before the show out there. And this has nothing to do with this is what they should do for Marner. But like Jordan Martinuk is a free agent in Carolina. Love him.

And you like Chandler Stevenson. There's guys out there in UFA. So I'm just saying cap space has value too. Go ahead. I just it is a terrifying trade to make because there's been tons of times over this last seven years and i get the perception around marner and i'm part of it i you know he's not my favorite guy either and i'm part of the the the negative side of it getting down on him in the playoffs

i am and kipper i know it pisses you off but no it doesn't piss me off but i also listen to you no no no listen sammy you're you're no different than everybody else out there you're with marner winner tie right winner tie we've had conversations where we've said we've all opened the show and like mitch marner's valid validated now right well that's validated that's what i'm worried about he's 10.9 he deserves all of it he's playing amazing and blah blah blah blah blah and then no no not my favorite now today but that i mean i just think it's a terrifying trade because of how many times we've sat here and talked about how you know there's been times where he's been the least best player when the

offensive production out of him he's a winger it's a dangerous where he's been the least best player. When the offensive production out of him, he's a winger. It's a dangerous trade. It's a dangerous trade, man. The odds of him winning the Conn Smythe trophy one day aren't nil. No, no. It's not zero. I'll tell you why it's a very dangerous trade is because we've seen him at his best, providing that 100-point guy, killing penalties.

Never actually got to 100 points. Making... Stop it. It's true. Making plays that no one else can make, right? And then you're like, wow. And now you want to take it out of your lineup and replace it with what?

That's the thing. That's, to me, where you make a trade, you want to bring something back that is going to give you a bit of offense, at least. Yeah. The Marner haters listening to that are saying, replace what? You know, the postseason, you're not replacing the same thing. Still got to get there.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Still got to get there. Still got to get there. Okay. We're going to take a break. And, I mean, I don't know how much time we have here because we're going to welcome in Frank Cervelli.

And we're going to get into this with him as well. But just, I know we went into trading Marner, but like, here's a question for you going into tomorrow. Who's deciding this? For you. What do you mean? Is it? Who's in charge after tomorrow to make keith trades or

have the final say or who gets to stamp it now moving forward i think our show is a committee shit that's what i think all the more reason to just say exactly what i just said about how terrifying a trade this is because listen badger living did an all right job in this offseason brought in some guys they like but i mean his trade record isn't perfect his moves aren't perfect he's made some good ones i guess every gm's made some good ones and bad ones but it's just i'm not sure i want him to be the one pulling the trigger on a franchise altering trade. Is that fair? But he's the GM. I know.

Listen, this really opens up a whole debate of this title that I don't know how long it's been around now, 10, 15 years, but president of hockey ops. and we've seen some of these Hall of Famers come in and get them, and it's like we're still not sure on how much power that wielded over the 10 years for Brendan. Was Brendan the guy in 10 years that someone like Kyle Dubas needed to come in at the final second, knock on the door and say, can I do this trade? Because I'm led to believe that Kyle had the power to go and do these things without Brendan. And I'm not even sure if I believe that or not.

But that's the question that kind of needs to be asked moving forward. Where does it work moving forward, Keith Pelley, after your press conference? Is it Brendan's still the president? The buck stops with Brendan. Brendan has final say on trades. Does he not? Is this now Brad Tree Living making all these decisions? Are they doing it together?

Is it collaborative? For 10 years, he's been the president, and the role of president in the NHL has changed over those 10 years. They have become more hockey-involved rather than business people, and right around the time it really changed, he went from Lou Lamorello to Kyle Dubas. Lou Lamorello wasn't asking him for anything. Lou Lamorello doesn't operate like that.

And Kyle probably had to a little bit more, which is part of the reason Kyle wanted more authority in the first place. Great point. And one that I'd never even thought of. I worked with Doug McClain for a very long time here. So when we were at Sportsnet, he was one of the first to phrase hearing about

president of hockey ops as oh they made up the fake gm yeah that's a fake gm job which means that the fake one gm or president gm is the the fake job? Yes. Okay. No, no. I was like Joe Sackett's like homered into the bushes. Yes. Like that's the GM now. Right? So it's like, okay, you got this president title, but when you know what hits the fan,

like where are we going on this? The bullets are flying and you're holding your GM in front of you. So, you know, they trade for an injured Nick Foligno. Like, Kyle Dubas? Oh, I don't know. Tyson Berry for, and Kerfoot for Naz Kadri. Is that Lou? Jess Lou?

I don't know. Lou and, like, so it's hard to say it's hard to say and now the one thing that you can't deny is that it got ugly towards the end between kyle dubas and brendan oh right yes and kyle was starting to make decisions did he did he run everything by brendan did he just do it on his own? Did Brendan feel not involved enough? Those are the questions that need answering from Keith Pelley, I think. And I'm not sure how many... I like that.

I'm not sure how many answers we'll get publicly tomorrow on it. But give us the organizational hierarchy. Who's making the hockey decisions? We should go. Exactly. We should go. Plenty more to dive into, including Frank Cervelli from Daily Faceoff

will join us next on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Teeing up the biggest games of the night, it's the Fan Pre Game with Ailish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert. Weekdays at 6 p.m.

on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Toronto Maple Leaf edition. In this first hour, let's welcome in Frank Cervelli, hockey insider, president of hockey content for Daily Faceoff,

a busy guy out west covering the Vancouver Canucks, Edmonton Oilers, but lucky enough to bring him along to maybe help us figure out who the next head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs will be. And the answer is, Frank? I don't know. Well, thanks for joining us, Frank.

Yeah, we'll see you guys. I think the true answer is Brad Treeliving doesn't know. I'm sure he's got a short list of guys that he's really intrigued by. My understanding is he has already begun to reach out to candidates to begin those conversations and to eventually line up interviews. I don't get the sense this is going to be something that's going to be wrapped up in the next 24 or 48 hours or anything like that. They've got time, and I think they intend to work through the process. Earlier in the show, Frank, we discussed the name Joel Quenville.

It's my understanding that calls have been made, inquiries, maybe figuring out the status of Joel Quenville. It's my understanding that calls have been made, inquiries, maybe figuring out the status of Joel Quenville. How realistic is it that something like that could get further evolved, or is this a simple yes or no from the league? Right now it's a no, unless something changes that i don't know about um his future and ability to earn a living in the nhl is completely in the hands of commissioner gary betman um i think that's maybe the toughest part about all of this for joel quenville and i'll include stan bowman in the same category as well. Two guys that would like to be working that haven't received a sentence,

which if the answer is you can never coach or work in the national hockey league again, I don't know that they'd be happy about that or fine with it, but it's not having any sentence at all. That makes this even tougher. When will they let be let back in? We're in now a, I believe a third hiring cycle that has precluded to this point them participating in that.

And I think teams would like to know because there would be interest in both of these men for jobs. And then to say nothing of them individually, when will we get an answer? When will we know if and when we are able to return to work yeah it's fascinating to watch uh it's also fascinating to watch your new setup it looks like you're in a rap video from the 1990s and i really like it i just want to let you know um i would say the toilet stall that i'm sitting in or feels like is decidedly less cool than a video but good choice with what you got yeah good choice Frank fair enough um one of your thoughts on you know

the Leafs have to do big things people are talking about the core four Mitch Marner's name comes up as a guy who could be moved same with John Tavares his name comes up as someone fans would like to see approached. What do you think the possibility of those guys getting dealt would be? And sort of what kind of market would there be were they to be available? Well, I'll start with John Tavares because, you know, I think probably even John Tavares would be one to tell you that his play is not entirely commensurate with the pay that he's earning and the cap it that he's taking in uh that's the way it works in the nhl sometimes uh especially as you get to the the latter stages of a long-term deal um that said i i think there's probably a pretty

really small likelihood that he's going to be playing in any uniform other than a Toronto Maple Leafs one uh blue and white next season and the reason for that is I don't know that you approach your captain I don't know that you make that type of decision and I'll actually take it a step further um yes John Tavares has not played at a level commensurate necessarily production-wise to his pay. But I think if we're not talking cap hits because we only can kind of judge and view players through that prism, he did still contribute and find a way to factor into two game winning goals in that seven game series. So now let's move on to Mitch Marner and have that conversation and rip the bandaid off because I think that's going to be a much more difficult conversation. Now I've heard and seen and read, there's been no shortage

of ink spilled on the idea of, oh, well, he's part of the core four. He eventually needs a new contract, but in the meantime, he has a no move clause where he holds all the cards. And I've said this before. I don't necessarily buy into that notion that because Mitch Marner has a no move clause, that there isn't a way to make a change to this Leafs core. If you want to, I think the conversation could be as blunt or as nice as they want to put it, but it's really just as simple as Mitch.

We really appreciate everything that you've done here, but when your contract expires, we are not offering you a new one. We are not bringing you back on an extension. So whether you have already played your last game as a leaf or whether you will be at some point, whenever next season ends, that's going to be it for you.

And if you want, you have the contractual right to head into your contract season, you know, in parentheses for a team that might not want you. And you can go out and try and play through that. Or you could just work with us and we could rip that bandaid off and address that situation now. So a long winded way of saying there is malleability to this core. It's much needed. There is also other contract, you know contracts coming off the

books where there's flexibility so there's lots that the leafs can do and brad tree living can do as he's now gotten a full season of evaluation to begin to put his stamp for real on this roster we're talking to frank cerebelli hockey insider with daily face off so let's dive into that a little bit more here because there's going to be thoughts of maybe resigning Max Domi. Do you want Bertuzzi, Joel Edmondson? There's the raise of Nylander and Matthews. There's a minimal that the cap's going up. It's not very comfortable for GMs again next year. Even if you move Marner, is that enough to go out

and drop some serious coin on UFAs to get defense and goalies? If you're at that stage, Frank, where you're asking and telling Mitch Marner that it's going to end for you very soon here one way or another. So let's do this now. Why not do the same thing to John Tavares and get his 11 off the books

or half of it off the books? Well, the answer why is that you're trading from an immediate disadvantage. You're dealing with a player who isn't, as I mentioned, playing at a, commensurate playing at a level commensurate to his pay, but Mitch Marner regular season wise, at least is. And I know there's a ton of teams that have already sort of whispered to me, Hey, what do you know? What will this guy become available? And what do you think the Leafs would be looking for in order to make something like this happen? Because they see the 95 to 100 point seasons.

They see the creativity. They see a decently complete game. And they say, what if we were able to get him outside of the fishbowl and his hometown team where he really seems to wear a lot of it? And could we make magic happen with him? So I think there's enough teams interested in Marner that it's a totally different conversation than dealing at a disadvantage from Tavares to say nothing of the sort of culture part of when you go and begin to have that conversation with a guy that's your team captain.

So is there enough flexibility? Can they do something different? How vastly different can this team look in the fall? I think the answer is pretty significantly different when you consider some of those free agents. I mean, I think there's reason to entertain conversations with Domi and Bertuzzi based on the way the second half of the season went. But I think when you really begin to diagnose and dissect what the Leafs are dealing with, guys, we all know that their defense core

is for the most part on paper they're not it's not a Stanley Cup contending defense core yet the scariest part of their round one exit for me is that they weren't an issue at all that wasn't the reason they lost to the Bruins it's because of the way their cap table is structured and the guys that they're paying humongous money to aren't producing 13 out of the last 14 playoff games, two goals or less. If that's the supposed strength of your team and it's what has repeatedly continued to fail you, you got to go back to the drawing board.

Yeah. And they, you know, it's not just, you mentioned the other guys, Domi and Bertuzzi. I think they have like 12 UFAs or something. It's some sort of huge number.

Do you think that some of the deadline things they did, like would Labushkin come back? Would Edmondson come back? Some of these fringe pieces, how much interest would there be in retaining them? I think probably a pretty fair amount. I mean, you let Labushkin walk once and you go, I know different regime regime but you go and

and get him again um i i think there's reasons to think that um you know someone like him and an inexpensive depth roll can help you um i just think they've got a million different ways that they can play this and some i'm sure it's some combination of um guys that you keep and then also you know certainly some new blood that's able to come in and so um i think a lot of people leaf fans just based on what i see in the reaction they'd like to see more new blood than not and i can understand why how long do the leafs need to hire a head coach here? How quickly will this happen? Berube, McClellan, what are you hearing on them? I don't think it's going to be crazy long.

I mean, I think probably stretches some time into next week. I think, as I mentioned, they've already begun to contact some of these people to begin lining this up. I think Craig Berube is going to be really high on their list, but by no means do I think that's a fait accompli or anything like that. And, and in some ways I'm actually more intrigued by what the domino effect of

this, you know, vacancy that now exists. We've all thought that it was trending in this direction, but once the Leafs pull the trigger, the New Jersey Devils are well down the track with Craig Berube and Todd McClellan. Do they suddenly speed this up and say,

we want to make sure we get the guy that we want and prefer, or do the Leafs now, you know, with some of the gravitational pull or, you know, magnetic pull that comes with being in Toronto, does that muscle and might and attractiveness of that job, does that sort of change how some of these candidates might look at it? I think that's also a fair question. We'll wait and see.

The fireworks start tomorrow midday for the Toronto Maple Leafs when three of the bosses show up for a press conference. Hey, Frank, great stuff, man. Thanks for doing this. Enjoy the rest of the playoffs, okay? And we'll have you on again soon. Never a dull moment, guys. Have a good one.

Thanks, Frank. Frank Cervelli. Another name too, Gabby, Bruce Boudreaux. I heard he hired either Elliot or Gord Stelic to either be his agent or press guy. If they hired Bruce Boudreaux, that would be awesome. That would be so awesome. Kippers Clippers would be unbelievable.

I do have a little fear of the next coach. They need to be kind of a good talker. What the hell are we going to do in the first segment next year If it's like Brubase short We're finding Sheldon on a couch somewhere By the lake Maybe we can hire Sheldon as a correspondent Just for old times sake

Quickly before I go One of the biggest Leaf fans in the world Justin Bieber Announced today on Instagram that him and his wife Hayley are pregnant So there you go A little Bieber. There you go. Biggest Leaf fan in the world, Justin Bieber. Congratulations

to the Biebs. Shout out to the Biebs. They're already shopping for giant jackets as they speak. Love it. Love it. This rollercoaster ain't stopping anytime soon on the Real Kipper and Board Show as we go national next, we'll welcome in Craig Simpson.

Hockey Night in Canada. Stick around. There's more.