Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds Fly Together

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee break down the Leafs' 2-1 OT win over the Ducks in the second game of a back-to-back - has Martin Jones changed people's minds on what he is at this stage of his career? How much of it is related to the play of the defence? They discuss Auston Matthews' league-leading 30th goal, the low scoring affair, and the recent play of Bobby McMann. Afterwards, they bring on former New York Rangers goaltender Mike Richter (30:09) to discuss what can be done with a struggling netminder like Samsonov, how to bring along young guys like Dennis Hildeby, and what it means to have  a stabilizing presence in goal like Martin Jones. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Come on in the real Kipper and Bourne show leaf edition. Yeah. Here on Sportsnet 590 Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet plus from four to six. Always Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo and general Nick boys. I am really excited about today's show. Is that right? Yes. How come? I slept.

That must have been nice. I've got some energy. Good. I'm not there yet. I didn't go to bed. Coffee! Covering a West Coast game for the first time in, what, four years? Yeah. I feel good. That? Yeah. I feel good. That's great.

I feel good. We've got all-star guests in this show today. We do. Unbelievable guests. Mike Richter. Mike Richter will be joining us in, what, about 30 minutes. I wrote an article today in the Toronto Star, my weekly article on goaltending and basically the demise of it in terms of the importance that it once had through everybody's lineup.

And, of course, I thought he could relate to what maybe Samsonov in Toronto or Jack Campbell in Edmonton were going through. Both players waved. Now, he, prior to our year winning the Stanley Cup, got sent to the AHL, played maybe half a dozen games with Binghamton. Prior to you guys winning the Cup?

Prior. Wow. And just give us a feel, Mike. A couple weeks in Binghamton will make anyone recommit to the crowd. Except for this one place that had amazing chicken wings. Oh, yeah? Is that right? Okay.

The bus had to stop there prior to leaving town after the game. No. But I'm going to ask Mike. Yeah, he'll know. He'll remember. So we've got that. In the next hour, Craig Berube will be joining us on the national edition of our show,

which I'm looking forward to. We all believe he's going to be the next coach of the Ottawa Senators. Yeah. I mean, no, no. I don't know what I think. No one reported that. Nobody's reporting anything. Just saying it would make sense.

Oh, ask him. How about I just ask him? Would you say it's trending in that direction, guys? I will just ask him. I'm not saying anything. Just saying it makes sense. I'll ask them. How about I just ask them? Would you say it's trending in that direction, guys? I will just ask them. I'm not saying anything. And we'll get into a few different things, including what ended up

being a very hot topic in social media between our Jennifer Botterill last night and Jamal Mayers and our boy Sammy Cause who got into it and I loved it for no other reason as I wasn't trending last night you know it is really nice you know to have people openly disagree on a topic and discuss it not that hard no one got hurt it's fun to you know throw it all out there that is pretty much the crux of what we do.

But you know what? It wasn't for a while. No. There was a run of time where. Yeah, when Kipper was fired. Yeah, that's right. So is Cherry and Kipper. I don't think we heard any of those.

We'll get into that in the next hour. In the meantime, we can certainly dive into the Leafs. Outlasting Anaheimim 2-1 in overtime. And we'll start with you, JB. For me, watching last night didn't quite have the same feel for me that I had when they played the LA Kings. Yeah. But found a way for another two points.

To me, it's like in the Olympics when the gymnastics routines of people can only top out at a certain level. It's like the degree of difficulty in this routine is only, that was the Anaheim Ducks. It could never get to the Kings level because the degree of difficulty was just not the same. But, I mean, they wiped the mat with them, Kip. I mean, it was a complete one-sided hockey game. To me, we've talked about beating the bad teams. I know they snuck by in overtime, but they handled their business. I mean, the numbers that I got back from SportLogic on that game,

unlike anything I've seen from the Leafs in years of getting this stuff, they had the puck more than twice as much. You got a quick comment before we go to Sheldon on the overview? Yeah, I think if we're going to talk about Sheldon here, I think he deserves some credit for going back to Jones because I don't think he was totally tested a ton, but I thought there were a few moments in that game where he made some nice saves, and I give him full credit.

I'm going to take the L on that. You're right. Full credit for going back. You're right, Sheldon. We'll get into Sheldon's decision after we hear his overall view of last night's game. Yeah, you get these nights sometimes, right? And, you know, early in the game there when they pulled that one off the goal line,

you know, you just kind of think, you know, that it might be one of those nights, you know, that that one doesn't fall for you. And that's the way it turned out. Now there are some things that I'd like to see us do a little bit better. Sometimes you face a goalie like that, he's having such a great night I thought we could do more to make it uncomfortable for him. That's what we were talking about doing. I didn't think we were able to get to him off the puck with traffic and things like that nearly

enough but we get that number of shots and that many of quality, clean looks at the goaltender that normally with our caliber of shooters, those find ways to go in. But you need to find ways to win these games and certainly get points. You get into the overtime and it's a bit of a coin toss from there, but you've got to get points in these games and find a way. Again, that's another

game here tonight without giving up a five-on-five goal. Three straight games, no five-on-five goals against for the Leafs. So he basically signed up his decision, got to get the points. To go to Jones again.

To give Sammy credit, he wanted Jones. We wanted the Beast. We didn't get that. But who can argue with the results? Can't. And in a game that ends up being a one-goal overtime decision, to Sammy's point, there were some opportunities where I thought Jones made really nice and timely saves.

So, yeah, put the guy in who's stopping the puck. I guess there are times where we overthink things in this job, and he got that one right. So, Keith, he spoke before the game yesterday, and he said that the reason, the overriding thing for me is we want to build some momentum as a team here in the way things have gone for us of late. So, like, it's just, you know, we want to play the NHL goal.

We need to go get points. And, yeah, I thought, you know, we want to play the NHL goal. This is one way here. We need to go get points. And, yeah, I thought, you know that the Leafs have, I forget how much they're up by, but the shutout streak thing? Yeah, 150. 150 games straight without getting shut out. I think the next closest is well under 100. I don't know. When you've got.

That's impressive. When you've got Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares, will they ever get shut out again? Oh, Matthews scores every game. Yeah.er, and Tavares. Will they ever get shut out again? Oh, Matthews scores every game. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. They shouldn't. But 150 straight, it's crazy.

The Raptors had the record forever for a three-point made in the game. They had the record for multiple seasons until it was broken. I don't know when, but just a random one. I'm sure by this team. For sure. Well, no. Anyways, what were you going to say? I was just going to say Anaheim didn't feel like they needed to address Gibson to give

them themselves the best chance. That goaltender last night, Lucas Dostal. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Record-setting night, 55 of 57 shots. Like, he was... He was awesome. The feeling was that...

I know Sam doesn't think so as much. I thought he was unbelievable. He was going to pitch him. He was going to pitch that shot out. Yeah. You didn't think, you thought they hit him? No. Well, like, I thought he was really good.

He was good. I thought he had a pretty quick chest last night. I thought they beat the puck into his pads a lot, hit him in the center of the, like, ton of clean looks for him. They weren't in front of the net a ton. Like, the one they finally score on, Tavares is in his jersey bangs in and on like he was good he was made the most saves in the history of the Anaheim Ducks franchise he was very good but I don't think it was like otherworldly I thought he was awesome like I thought the the Matthews one

the quick cutter where he catches him off the shoulder and he keeps it out like I just thought he read plays really well and sometimes you, great goaltending looks simple. I thought he was very good. Okay. That's a hell of a zag by me. Yeah. The thing that I didn't like last night out of the Toronto Maple Leafs is it had less of a feel for me from an overall game

from the one that we saw in LA I was hoping that that was going to kind of transition I saw a little bit more out of the old Toronto Maple Leafs with Sheldon where I'm just gonna I'm gonna run my dogs my big dogs, until I secure my two points. And it would have been nicer for me to see a night where you're playing one of the worst teams in the league where you do not have to run Austin Matthews 25 minutes. Yeah, and Marner played 25 minutes too. Yeah, I think that's a legitimate complaint

um you know watching you know i want to bring up something with you that i think is fairly interesting uh anthony patrilli guy we referenced once in a while here made a comment about mitch marner this year and how you know the nhl edge data um tracks speed bursts like however many times per game you get over 20 miles per hour you know this season his amount of speed burst he used to be in like the 77th percentile 80th percentile last year and this year he's below the 50th percentile in that and it feels to me sometimes like he knows he's going to play 25 minutes and that he does have to kind of budget the gas in the tank rather than there's just hasn't been as many games where you see him take it to the opposition.

And I don't know if it's related to ice time or not, but it seems... How can it not? Right. How can it not? I'm sure he's talked to him on board. And it's just, for me, sometimes, it's just not about the actual numbers of minutes.

Because when it's all said and done, the star players are going to kind of look like the minutes are all the same. But there's little smaller factors for me, and that is the stress level of those minutes. And last night, Matthews, Marner, it wasn't a cruise control't a uh a cruise control type pouring it on trying to get the next one yeah they're matthews arms are gonna fall off what do we say over 20 shot attempts 20 shot yeah i think 13 hit 13 shots on easy minutes they're stressful minutes for your star players against one of the worst teams in the league yeah That stuff catches up to you in March and April.

And to give you some sort of kind of context into minutes and hard minutes and all of that, I just, I went back to the Edmonton Oilers game where they just beat Philadelphia Flyers 5-2. I have that up in front of me too. And I'm going, we talked about yesterday, Connor McDavid, what a night. Yeah, five points.

Five points. And I'm looking, and it's like, how many shots on goal did he have? Two. Two. How many minutes did he play? 16 and a half. Boys, that's cruise control leafs matthews and martyrs how many nights have they had cruise control not last night

by the way in the last few games mcdavid played 25 against the kings the night before he played 16 against the sharks because they won five nothing so there's another night where it's like you can justify the 25 minute games if. So there's another night where it's like, you can justify the 25-minute games if you offset them with some nights where it's lighter. So just to add a little bit more, again last night, 57 shots on goal. How many from a percentage came from Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares?

You go first. 57. You had him with 13. So probably, it's probably close to 45%. Yeah, I'm going to say 60. 62. Okay. Edmonton, 5-2 win over the Flyers.

Go to their top guys, and I'll add Dreisaitl, McDavid, Hyman, and Kane. What was their percentage of shots on goal? Much less. Half. 30. Yeah. I mean, it's good. You're getting your points, but at what cost?

Again, and this is our earlier conversation that we've had much earlier in in this season is i got a little bit of team a won the game last night yeah team b kind of watched max tomey's been pretty good how many minutes did he play last night love to know under 10 nine nine guys you know but the other hand you know you but on the other hand, you know, you're on the panel the other night talking about how, you know, you need to play Jones the other night. Paul Samson put in Jones because you need these two points. Those two points are relevant.

I see your point. But that's in the battle. You're in a game with Anaheim last night. You're either down a goal. You can't be like, let's just get him ice time and rest this guy. You need those points. It's also the factor that your other guy isn't good enough. Okay?

Max is good enough to play more than nine minutes. No doubt about that. That's the difference, JB, for me. Yeah. We're talking about guys that are capable in the moment. You need to have more confidence in your total lineup to go win four rounds in the playoffs and beating the crap out of four of your top players for 25 minutes every night. Second half of back-to-back against one of the worst teams in the league.

Again, we're talking about now stressful games. How many overtimes, boys? 15. Last night, was there 15? 15th, mostly. To lead the league. How many games did they play? 36?

35. That puts stress, major stress, on your star players it is interesting kip you know like like matthews last night unbelievable you know like he was all over the map he had the puck the whole night you're right it would have been a taxing night on a back-to-back for a guy like him you know i am i am curious if just the years of of this ice time on Marner is or what it is, but it doesn't seem to be the same. He was good last night. I thought Marner was good last night.

But just generally this year, he doesn't seem to have that same, you know, like what's the Willie Neal? I understand he's only four games with zero points this year. Marner's at like 14 or something like that. Like there's just more nights where maybe it is too much and maybe dialing it back a little, you'd get more out of the guys hell of a pass though on the overtime dude we pause that clip matthews is facing him screening the goalie when he passes it like to know that matthews to be able to read and open it up and put it in the place he's going to be to hit it it's an unbelievable

pass that maybe two or three other guys in the league even attempt. The two best. Marner's the best. And then Willie. But Willie's shooting a lot more now, right? Yeah. No, he wants the dollars. Give me the dollars, baby. Some reports on that, by the way.

Oh, yeah. Who wants the dollars? It would help if there was one or two other guys that could make that pass. Yeah. Tavares can't make that pass, boys. Do you know that Neylander and Matthews are one shot apart on the season? Right. For total shots? No, you're right.

They can't. They can't. And sometimes when they do struggle to score goals, it would help if a few of them would look off and draw and find the open guy. Willie will do it a bit. Willie's a willing passer. He's a willing passer. Tavares, they're straight line guys.

Tavares sometimes gets the tunnel vision going, boys, and he can take a wrist shot from 40 feet out. He does that a lot. It's true. I hate that shot. I hate it too. There's some of that against Anaheim, to your point. There was some of that last night where a guy be

on screen top of the circle, wrist hurt. Why are we doing that? One of the signature moves of Tavares is him coming in over the blue line, little bit of a toe drag, and firing it, either hitting the glass or hitting the goalie in the chest. He does it I'd say once a game.

That's partially why you can't separate Bertuzzi and Marner, because they're the couple guys who make the little passes. Take the pass in the chest. He does it, I'd say, once a game. That's partially why you can't separate Bertuzzi and Marner because they're the couple guys who make the little passes. Take the pass and the puck. If they just can work on passing the puck a little bit more and having a few of those different looks, I think it can go a long way. You know, you talk about Domi getting under 10 last night. How much of that is him playing with Holmberg

versus playing with Robertsberts i know robertson hasn't been really good obviously for the last little bit but i just felt like that line was so much less of a threat without robertson in terms of just offense like it was a different looking line totally i don't i don't even i'm not even on the robertson corner but i just thought that there was no chances with domi on the ice with those guys. Yeah, Robertson's high event, right? It might go your way, it might go their way, but it's going to go some way. Nothing happened. Homer's the opposite.

Nothing happened. Just in the back half of the season, going into the playoffs, you just don't envision Max and Robertson playing an integral part on the third line together. They just, I think they just need to feel like they're heavier there. They're bigger. They're bigger. They're stronger. And that's not Robertson for Max.

Rough talking about Vancouver yesterday. And their third line right now is that Dakota Joshua, who's a big, strong guy in Bluger, who's been through a lot in the NHL. And then I forget who the second is. Connor Garland. Connor Garland, who's a scrappy competitive. He's small, but he's competitive.

Even LA. And by the way i mean you're i know you said that they were awful last night and at least dominated them yeah but they still look better to me than la did two nights ago oh yeah la had no juice i thought anaheim was awful awful i didn't see anything out of them but i mean so your point about la they've had a couple of quiet showings from the california minutes away from stealing that thing i know i know it's crazy uh yeah i think that uh i think overall there's yeah there's there's some work to do on the the bottom yeah well six you know when you have holmberg and mcmahon and camp and just a certain number of guys whose job it is

to break even it's tough to get much it's funny how McMahon crushed a guy last night so quickly before we get to that it's funny how much the the needs of this team in my eyes change from night to night where it's like oh my god they need a d-man oh my god they need a goalie after watching last night I'm like holy crap they need a couple bottom six wingers like it's like it just feels like what they need changes on a night-to-night basis Martin Jones by the way among nhl goalies to have 10 games and he has 10 exactly he's second in the nhl and save percentage at the 9 30 how about the how about the back-to-back two wins 58 saves on 59 shots one goal against 049 goals against 983 save percentage and a shutout like

what a godsend this guy's been for them. They were screwed. Screwed. Before we get into the Bobby McMahon hit, just one other thing too is, I don't know how you guys feel, but I just don't like the power play. I don't. Yeah. It just still is underwhelming for me

for the amount of talent that they have. It just looks... In the last month, I think it's under 15%. is underwhelming for me for the amount of talent that they have. It just looks... In the last month, I think it's under 15%. It looks too slow for me. It looks like everybody's just standing in one spot. Their second unit's really good. Tavares got the goal that ignited them last night. But outside of that,

they gave up the shorthanded goal. It just doesn't seem to be a dynamic tool for them right now. They could use a little, you know, part of the second unit becomes the first unit, part of the first unit becomes the second unit thing. I think in January you could try it. You know, hey, maybe Max gets a couple of minutes.

Maybe Robertson is in a shooting spot for a second. When the playoffs start, I want it to be humming, and I want it to be like this. But right now, it feels like you can just kind of freshen it up a little bit. To me, that's one spot that Sheldon has not shown me that he's going to do that. Like, there was a couple of times last night, they went 45, 50 seconds. Pull them off. You got to face off get max domey out there and think of big picture don't just think about just the two points there has to be some sort of boys what am i building here like that's hard for

a coach given i told you this super hard when though. I told you this a long time ago. You're in the playoffs. You're not missing the playoffs. You get to take that for granted. Keefe doesn't. I think if we could boil down Sheldon Keefe's coaching as a Toronto Maple Leaf, as a Toronto Marley, the way he is is you can understand his decisions

if you try to understand he's trying to win tonight. Right? Like none of it has been long-term accountability. He is trying to win the game. He will grind them down. To win every point. And maybe you think that's a problem. Some other people might not.

The team may have to reassess depending on what they have left. Go back. It's going to be history proving itself over again here it's been kind of shown at times in the past what's wrong with him oh he's brutal like you know our the star players didn't show up again well maybe the needles on e you know i think it is a valid concern to raise with this team. Absolutely. Okay. Bobby McMahon, five-minute major.

By the way, Mintico's face hadn't hit the boards before Sammy tweeted, love it. Oh, my God, you guys love it. Don't like ripping on the officials here, but when you have two minutes to go to your little monitor and watch it two or three times, I have no idea how you can come to a five-minute major conclusion. Well, I can because it's a big, loud,

and I think it was a terrible call. Like the fact that they decided that that was a five-minute major and kick him out is absurd. But they sit there, boys, for I don't know how long, two or three minutes, and convince themselves because of the result, because of the big loud noise, the guy's cut, he's off the ice, they convince themselves it's a major. It's just not.

And that's a problem with the review where these two, you know, three blind mice can sit there and try to figure out what they're doing. It's just the review takes way too long, and them trying to figure it out, it's stupid. It was a bang-bang play. It was a bang-bang play. I'll say that I agree that, like, technically by the rule book, it's like he gets to some shoulder.

The guy knows he's about to be hit. You know, I get that. The guy is going to be in a precarious situation. He's shooting the puck in. He's not really going to be able to protect himself. He's in kind of a tough area. I don't love the hit. It's a little greasy for me.

I don't think it's a five in a game by any stretch. I think it is a little more gray than I think you guys think it is. But I do think that with the replay thing, it needs to be. We're going to give you two looks at this again at real speed. Make up your mind. Then we're going back to the game. I can have all here two minutes for boarding. Fine. No problem.

But to kick him out for that, it's crazy. That call in game three or game four. Oh, my God. Is front page. Yeah. Number one trending thing. Yeah. And also, I think that.

But what's he supposed to do there? Well, I think he has to make the decision of, can I hit this guy who's a bit defenseless because the person made themselves defenseless. He's coming in full speed, and when he's about to engage, they're shoulder to shoulder. He has to puck on his stick. Well, he knows he's dumping the puck in, right?

The guy's rushing to the red line. That's hockey. Sure it is. You're allowed to finish a check. And Mintikov should do a better job. Just turns his back right into him. Yeah, for sure. But I do think that he's aware that he's going to be hitting a guy

that's in kind of a weird spot as it happens. All right, let's get Sheldon Keefe's thoughts on Kipper's clipper. He's found another level. Oh, no. Clip three. No, no thoughts. I mean, obviously, there's no intent there. I mean, Bob was just finishing his check. I think it a it's a quick play where the they're guys dumping the

puck in and kind of turns at the same time and it makes it a little bit harder for him but uh you know regardless of it we need bobby to keep playing hard and doing his job there and i think he's he's been really good for us i i think that i can say it's a big greasy hit and sheldon should like that he's doing that bobby mcmahon should be pleased that he landed a big check in the coach notice. Like, it's good in the end for them, but yeah, still. I just hope that, you know, you're a four-flying guy. You're a call-up. I hope it doesn't deter him.

That's what I would be. I bet you they went to him after the game and were like, hey, do it again. We enjoy that. Okay. Just because it's like, you know, you put your team in the power play for a penalty kill for five minutes. You don't want it to be like, oh, next time he's in that position, it's like, oh, I don't want that to happen again.

That's why I hate the call so much. There's no hit league. You're not allowed to hit guys. Torts over here. It is. And I don't like torts and I hate to get him credit. He's right. It's no hitters.

It's such a flashbang moment that everyone's like you have to make a call all right uh why don't we go to break because i want to max out our next guest after the break mike richter uh former teammate of mine former new york ranger goalie stanley cup champion he's going to give us uh uh his thoughts on the state of NHL goaltending and what guys like Samsonov and Campbell can do to save their careers. Mike Richter, after the break, you're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Welcome back in. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

So Mike Richter says to me yesterday, just send me a text in the morning to remind me to come on the show. And I did. Okay. And he says, okay, thanks. Now I can start drinking. Just to give you some idea of his sense of humor. The Doug McLean plan for the show?

Do people need to drink to come on our show? I hope not. I don't anymore, which is good. You are our example. But real interested in talking about the state of goaltending today and where it is. If anyone's interested, I wrote an article today in the Toronto Star on it and how it just doesn't seem

like it once was in the game today. All I can tell you is that I am the father of a seven-year-old who plays hockey, and when the gear comes around, like who wants to play goal next week, every single parent has got their kid's arms pinned to the side, like you do not want to do this. You know, like it's not a position that these days people are jumping to play. Did you – I watched the World Juniors closely,

and I forget the goalie, Rousseau, for Canada. And, you know, you saw how it ends. Goal, puck goes in, off another defender, and they flash to Rousseau's parents in the crowd. Oh. They're just... And it's not his fault, that goal at all. Not even close to his fault, but it's like,

you're the last line of defense. I don't know why you would ever... We're saying his name on national TV. I've gone in that a few times, and it's just like, why would anyone choose to do this? It's insane. It is. It's an insane thing to do but at least it pays less in the article to do uh today i also talked about just how every rule was just for more more scoring more chances more and as you had stated to me

the uh save percentage has been at a steady decline yeah for like seven or eight straight years it's plummeting i also wrote an article yesterday for sportsnet.ca with andrew brewer who drew up face-off plays for the leafs for some four or five years um and we talked about the potential like in in rules tweaks about pre-face-off movement if you allowed it, like the NFL where guys could, you could have a couple of guys in the backfield starting with motion, how all these rules,

how fun it would be and what could happen and whatever. Every rule we make now is about how do we kill the defense? How do we handcuff the defense? How do we make this harder for the goalies? It's a tough job. And God, they're so good now. Like guys you've never heard of like

lucas dostall and by the way we should say we've heard of them the ducks will tweet about us oh yeah upset he's not a no-namer guys not a no-namer but yeah you know goalies are so good but they're all kind of the same i didn't i don't know his actual size to me he's not a big goaltender, and it just seems like everything's skewed towards now 6'4", 6'5", 6'6", and he didn't, I think he might be 6 feet at the most maybe. He is 6'1". 6'2". Oh, he's 6'2". Is our next guest 6'6"?

Our next guy was not 6'2", 6'4", but often talked like he was. Ricky, first of all, how many Jagermeisters have you needed to come on our show today? About 14. Actually, 19, your number. Oh, very nice. Well, thanks for joining us.

Really appreciate it. I don't know if you knew this, but I kind of wrote an article on your position, goaltending, and where it is today in the NHL and where it's kind of headed. It just seemed like there were so many star goaltenders in the back that teams just could never envision not having. And now it's it's been

skewed to just get a guy in there who can make the saves he's supposed to and will do the rest but the other thing in the article was the fact that uh we've got samsonov and jack campbell goaltenders proven goaltenders at the NHL level now trying to find their craft in the minors. And you had an experience like that prior to us winning the Stanley Cup. Can you talk about it a little bit? Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show, guys. This is awesome. I want to read that article, Kip.

I haven't seen it yet, so my apologies. But, I mean, you never came back into the defensive zone, so I don't know why you're trying to go to the specialist. But, no, honestly, it's wild to watch the whole NHL right now. The quality of play is great, and I think the position of goaltender has changed a lot. I heard you guys speaking about the size of the goaltenders themselves, but these, for the most part, kids are all mobile, really mobile.

So when you get that, you know, a small goalie, 6'1", 6'2", even, and they can move the way they are, it's pretty difficult to score on them. I think what's hard for these guys is the techniques. If you look at Morty Boudour, Dominic Hasek, Patrick Roy, they all had their own style. You know, look, you're always going to be centered on the puck. You're going to be balanced. But it's between your ears, which really makes those guys great.

And I think that's one of the most difficult things to figure out. You really got to know the person to know what kind of compete he has, what kind of focus they have, how they handle adversity and all that. I am curious, though. A lot of these goalies are so good technically that I wonder if they've gotten by on that a lot of their career. And then, look, you're going to be challenged. In that league, there is no room for mediocrity. So you're going to start seeing cracks in the armor if there are any.

But as far as Sampson, I mean, we spoke about this the other day, you and I. I think it can be a really great thing for a goaltender to go down and kind of refine his form and see it with pitchers and whatnot. And I think the NHL has been so much better. You know, when we came into the league, it was kind of like there was minors and there was pros, and now it's more of a developmental league. And if you can use that to get people back on track after injuries or through a

skid um you know that that dude can play the game and i i don't know what's going on between his ears i don't know whether his technique is is off or what it is obviously he's not playing um where he wants to be but you know i think that's something where if you roll up your sleeves and we have spoken about this henrik lundqvist how great is he he would take a couple games and just say i need to practice my technique's getting a little stale and you can do that that that that can happen when you're in the playoffs when you're just playing games and it's at the end of the season and you're doing nothing but resting between games and then playing games is a great rhythm to be in. But you start getting smoked here and there. You don't have a lot of wiggle room to improve your technique.

And sometimes you just need that. You need that space. And, you know, I'll stop talking for a second, but something that's important is having two goalies that are great. Because if somebody goes down with an injury, obviously you need those points. But you see what's happening in New York right now. If Shesterkin's coming back from an injury or he wants to get fresh on his technique,

you're not giving up points by playing the other guy. And as much as that looks like a goaltending controversy from a distance, it's a luxury. It's a really good thing. That's a damn long season, and every game matters right now. You know, I'm curious to get your thoughts on the, on starting goaltenders playing like 50 games a year. I looked through your resume.

I think you played more than 65 or six times. One year you played 72 games. You know, and today we're trying to figure out why save percentage is down seven straight seasons. And it seems to be that maybe starting goalies just aren't in the net as much. Like, what are your thoughts on these guys, you know, topping out in the kind of the low 50s? Great, great question, because they are big, they are mobile, they have great technique. And I don't know whether it's been such a reliance on on the physical. And you look at those goalies in the 70s, you know, someone come in and Reggie, I used to grow up in Philadelphia,

watch Reggie Leach come down and rip one off the crossbar and like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's a lifter. And I'm not disparaging these guys because mentally they were tough. That equipment, it hurt. You know, you ask John Davidson, you know, even when I was a kid, you just had little, I don't know, sponge and stuff like that. So on the collarbones and the elbows and whatnot, you had to pay attention

and it physically could really hurt and be even dangerous. You have more equipment now. It's so kind of physically based, the technique, that I just wonder whether the great goalies that are still there are the ones that obviously have combined that technique but the the muscle between the ears is so strong you know um marty brador bad game today fine i'll go out and pitch

a shutout tomorrow um think of the consistency of lincoln. We had the luxury of watching in New York. Patrick Waugh, great big-game goalie. You have to have that. And I wonder if, as a kid, they're learning so much technique. You know, I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know. I tend to look at these guys and say they're pretty good. I hear what you're saying, you know, where are the dominant goalies? And I don't know.

But I would imagine the floors come up. Who's a crappy goalie in that league? you know and I don't think there's any uh a couple deep too in the organization I'd say so I I think you know the the quality from top to bottom is tremendous um the top guys are ridiculous the save some of these guys are making is are really impressive and you know i'm in new york right now and you look at bedard coming in this kid have you seen him shoot a puck i didn't think he was going to be that good that quick and um you know maybe one of the reasons that the save percentage is a little lower is these guys are so skilled. You know, the Michigan was a big thing when the kid from Michigan did it.

Now it seems like every third week someone's ripping that thing in a different way. At full speed, they're picking the damn puck up. The quality of skill sets on a given player in juniors right now is through the damn roof and so these guys if you have a hole in your you know in your game they'll find it i used to love watching the playoffs because all year long you'd have those 80 games and all the practice and the guys shots would be more accurate the goalies would be making better saves that they probably weren't making training camp now it seems like that starts in training camp the guys are picking those corners off the bars you know a great highlight of conor mcdavid doing a 360 picking up the puck

then banking the thing under the blocker over the uh pad and off the damn post after doing a 360 at full speed i don't know man there was there's not been that many players in the world that can do what these 700 players can do. So, you know, I give a little bit of leeway on the goal team right now because these guys are shooting the puck so well. We're talking to Mike Richter, former NHL great. Tall, tall. Very tall. And my ride, my practice ride to ride Playland.

Is that right? He would let me change the radio dial. No. Brian Leach almost kicked me out of his car when I touched it. That's nice. Is that why you're still friends with Richard? We can't get Leach on? Yeah, we can't get Leach on.

Hey, Ricky, part of my article I wrote that you went down to the minors after playing over 100 NH NHL games that's a big difference than a guy playing a couple and then getting sent down here would Samsonov and Campbell be going through that that stress of embarrassment did you feel embarrassed humiliated that you were a proven NHL guy with all these games and now you got to go to Binghamton? Yeah. Yeah, you do. Look, every game I went into, you go in trying to have a shutout, you go in trying to win it. You want that consistency. You have no lack of desire.

But you know, there are people on the other side of the puck that are wanting the same thing and it's a competitive place so when you especially as a young guy um start losing or getting out of the rhythm it's just too valuable it's too important to say you know it's it's you know february he'll come out of it well what if he doesn't you can't give up a couple weeks get the guy on in shape so you know going down there play i think think I played five games in whatever, in a week or something like that, eight days, whatever it was. It was incredibly helpful. There's great players down there.

I'm fortunate there was a great team when I went to bingo. They helped, you know, but you get a little bit of confidence. But you just scrape everything off and focus on your game. That's what you need to do. And I love practicing. I worked hard at it. But where you get your rhythm is the games ultimately. You can feel great in practice, but you've got to get into that game shape.

And the only way of getting into the game shape ultimately is by playing games. And if you're not up to par or your team's giving up enough chances where it's going to cost you a lot and there's not that flexibility within you know your own lineup maybe it's a good thing to do um but it's such a delicate thing you hear people talking all the time about getting confidence and goal scorers when they're going they have confidence they get that puck they're saying calling for it give it to me they'll shoot everything when you're not you're second guessing. You have that little hesitation, whether you're a forward or goalie, that is, that's a death sentence there. So you, you have to be truly confident in what you're doing and have no hesitation. You know, you read the play, stick with your read. You got to move. If it's two on one, for example, if you start

saying, well, actually he might get the bat. I'll go to it. You're done. That hesitation game was too quickly. So I, look, the only way to get out of these things is by working your backside off to get out of them. And if that means going to the minors to do it, awesome,

do it. So, you know, take it. Ricky. It's funny you say that because the paperwork says that Samson has been assigned to the Toronto Marlies, but they have no plans for him to play any games as of today.

Could you have done what you did in Binghamton without those games and then go back and get reset? Or are they making a mistake not playing him in a couple of games? It's hard enough to have the context to be able to answer that one kind of accurately. You know, sometimes players, and that was pretty intense, you get in your own way, right? So I'd want to win four games in the first period, you know, and if it doesn't go your way, that effort and that desire can start to derail you a little bit.

And I know Hank, when he first came to New York, was very much the same way. Super competitive. If you lose a game, then you try a little harder. And maybe you are second guessing yourself because you're trying that much more. So, you know, the intent is there and the desire is there, but the rhythm might not be. And so sometimes it's okay to just take a day off or get the hell away from it. So I don't know the particular situation. Anytime you have an injury, you know, there's two aspects of that. You have to get through the injury, but then you have to get strong again

and get your timing again. And I don't know what precipitated Samsonov's problems, but if it's not going – and I wouldn't classify Toronto as the most defensive team in the world. So sometimes you can be left in a position where you better play really well, even though they're putting four goals in. You're going to have to make some really big saves. So if your game's not up to par, it'll be exposed. And so I don't know.

There might be a little bit of a rest and just feel like you're going out there full bore. I don't have an answer for that. But I think goaltending is such an experienced position that you should be able to right that ship i mean he's got a lot of experience the guy can play the game um he seems like a real competitor you've seen him play tremendous hockey so i wouldn't give up on him um by the way mike richter's ahl stats when he went down i think he was scored on i't know, like once a game at most. 964 save percentage.

The Chicken Wings must have been pretty good in Binghamton is my understanding. It was a pretty good team in front of me, I will say. But it helped, right? I mean, you kind of wash all the BS off and you're just out there playing your game. You know how to prepare. You know, at that point, I had a really pretty good technique. And I just said, look, I know what I'm doing. Get down there and do it.

There's nothing to talk about. You just have to perform. And I think sometimes when you get rid of a lot of the circus that can come with struggles, it's a really good thing. Does the big market make a big difference? Like I'm thinking about, you know, you're playing for the New York Rangers. These guys are undergoing these, you know, confidence battles. Samsonov in particular in Toronto, you know, confidence battles, Samsonov in particular,

in Toronto, you know, or under the watch of Toronto's media. Would that be something that is an additional challenge for a goalie? No question. I think it's a good thing. Look, when you're winning, you want to be in the biggest market.

When you're losing, you know, a backwater looks pretty good. Yeah, yeah. And I think you'll be scrutinized there like no other place on earth really and so in new york had a big media presence clearly but toronto's toronto you know that's kind of the hotbed of the whole damn thing and uh people know the game and they it's sport watching that sport uh in a big way and criticizing and and second guessing so yeah you you you will have to have all all pistonsons firing if you're going to make it there

for sure. And so I think a struggle, you know, you might start getting through it, but the paper's lagging and saying, well, you know, he's still having a hard time and that starts to eat at you. So I don't think that's, that's a benefit to him right now. But like Kevin Lowe said, when he came to New York, you know, we hadn't won in 54 years and he was like man think of the upside so there's always that amazing upside in a place like new york or toronto in particular there's been so many rules ricky in the last 20 years to to open up the offense was was the trapezoid absolutely needed by the NHL to strip guys away from handling the puck? Or was that just overkill?

I don't know. I think the goalies are so good at that now. They're scoring goals. They're moving the biscuit. You know, people come, you want to see goals, but you really want to see scoring chances. Because if you're getting these games where players are being mugged and they can't get in front, you know, Brian Leach always used to say that, you know, the problem kind of remains that if an average player can neutralize a great player by holding and hooking and slowing them down, that's not good for the game.

I want to see skill. I want to see Conor Bernard go down. I want to see a great save by, you know, Shushturkin, whoever. That's what fans are paying to see. And as soon as the game gets gummed up or the trap gets involved, it may be effective or the lack of trapezoid means that the puck comes in, it comes right out. It's not good for the entertainment value of it.

And I want that puck on Conor McDavid's stick. I want to see him flying around the ice. I want to see passes. And you go to an NHL game now and some of the, you know, the decision making that they have is so quick. And so they have to have option one, two, and three, because they get shut down so fast. Yeah, it's, it's a, I think it's great product right now from the goal on out, but any, any rule that they put in that kind of puts a premium on skill in in my eyes, is a good idea.

Okay, one last one for me. The Leafs called up Hill the Beast. Hill the Beast. Dennis Hill the Beast. He's 6'7", Ricky. If Glenn Healy climbed up on your shoulders, would you too be six foot seven? No, but we'd be twice as smart still.

Twice as cheap. I'll bet. Yeah, it is amazing, but it does. You know, it's, it's, it's funny going back to those old goalies, you know, Glenn, he was smaller than me even, and, you know, didn't have big equipment and the man, he could read a play and he competed like none other, a really effective player. And I just, I think that's one thing that never changes across the league. You have to have a real commitment to,

to turning yourself inside out to making a save, whether you're down and out, you saw maybe that great cool kind of reverse scorpion or whatever the hell they call it, Mike Prick did the other day. Nobody teaches that. That's something like Dominic Hasek, all great players. You want to save the puck,

and if you happen to be facing the wrong way because someone bumped into you or you made a save, you don't give up on it. And that sometimes is the difference between a win or loss or Hall of Fame or an average guy. If he was climbed on your shoulders, you'd be 6'7 underground. And pink, very pink.

Ricky, great stuff, man. Thanks for doing this. Really appreciate it. Yeah, I can't wait to read your article, Kipper. This is great stuff. Thanks for having me on, guys. Great show. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. Family Cup't wait to read your article, Kipper. This is great stuff. Thanks for having me on, guys. Great show. Mike Richter. Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it.

Family Cup champion. That was great. What a thoughtful guy. Do you notice it got dark behind him over the course of the game? He's going to come out of his shell a little bit. I've got to get him to talk more. Very comfortable. Haunted my dreams as a kid at the World Cup. Absolutely stole it from Canada. He was unbelievable. It was. It was at 96.

Yeah, 96. Unbelievable. Wow. There weren't many people. He was unbelievable. It was. It was at 96? Yeah, 96. Unbelievable. Wow. There weren't many people. He's the nicest guy ever. The nicest guy ever. There weren't many people I cursed out more as a child than that man. His save percentage was like five percentage points higher,.05, in the playoffs 76 game.

Once again, our thanks to Mike Richter. Hey, it keeps getting better here in the second hour. Just after the break, Craig Berube, former NHLer, and also a teammate of mine. Really? Once upon a time. Yeah, but Hershey. Oh.

We were in Hershey together. Good thing they didn't have cameras on those games. Wow, did we have a tough lineup. Can't wait to get into it with Craig Berube after the break. All right, don't go away. We're back after this.