Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds Hit the Road

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne & Sam McKee start with a look at the Leafs' lineup from today's practice, the defensive pairings getting a shake-up, the significance of Mark Giordano, Matthew Knies moving up to the second line and how that move impacts the bottom six. Then, looking ahead at the Leafs' road trip, how the goalie tandem will be deployed and Ryan Reaves' comments about Corey Perry. They are joined by Gord Stellick (27:54), who shares his thoughts on the Leafs' start to the season, how Max Domi is fitting in, whether or not to keep Fraser Minten with the big club and concerns around David Kämpf. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's welcome everybody into the Real Kipper and Boren show. Nick Kiprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Dirk Brandeo, Jen Rolnick, all the same cast and characters. We good? We good. All right. Live on Sportsnet, 590, The Fan, 360. Sportsnet Plus from four to six. Doesn't get any better than this.

All right, the Leafs heading on the road. Yes. When things don't fall in place like they should, man, you're happy to see a road trip. Yeah, it's a good place. I mean, do people still, the players still live like, I don't know, I don't want to say we because we were a different era and different leagues by and large but you can say that too now you're that old i think so only i i need you to be younger than you're already making yourself out

to be but i'm 15 years removed from a pro game wow i know it's not supposed to be the young side of this show so don't lose that. I'm the dinosaur. Okay. Do young people, the real youngs, do they still go out and party? What's going on these days? I don't know. Maybe they should.

Definitely should. Because in my era, we did have this thing called playing guilty. And it worked for a lot of guys. I'll be honest with you. Yes. It works if you're someone who doesn't do it consistently once it becomes a part of the plan it's probably not great but here and there a couple times a year nothing wrong with that dump it in all right it's not like the leafs went oh and three at home here they they did get some points here but there's enough for sheldon to contemplate changes and we may see

that as early as the thursday night as they head down south to florida panthers on thursday lightning on saturday how much of a different look will we see or how much of a different look do we need to see this early in the season the one thing we need to see is we need to see different d pairs and it looks like from the lineup we have here that they are sticking with mccabe and lilligran riley and brody gonna stay together and uh giordano klingberg would be their third pair which to me makes sense you got an anchor for uh for klingberg right giordano can kind of defend and play in his own end. I like that.

And then, Kip, a couple changes up front too. Your boy, Nyes, getting a little extra love. Domi getting a bump down. I want to stick to the D-Core a little bit here. And why don't we go to Sheldon? We'll go to Sheldon's clip two on the decor, and then we'll come out with our thoughts. You're trying to find the right mix and how they complement one another.

You want to give it time to breathe, but you also need to perform well and you need to get good results. So that's sort of that balance. But Riley Brody pairing has been really consistent for us as we had expected that it would it's been the one that's been uh you know played the most together uh geo lily has been good and they've got lots of comfort together clingberg coming into the mix that changes things up in the cage still somewhat somewhat new here as well so um they're kind of working through that. I think you'll see Rhino on the back end there, Mike Van Ryn,

mix things up and use guys in different spots. I don't mind Riley and Brody together. It has to start somewhere in terms of some stability here. I would expect if they come out and just anchor this thing, then we could be looking at a big minute munching night for both of these guys. And then you hope that it alleviates a little bit behind them. But that's a big if right now for me.

Yeah. I'm not sure. Did Brody miss some time or something? Like looking at time on ice for these defensemen, Morgan Riley is playing 23 minutes a night. Brody's playing 1855 so far this season, which feels really low to me compared to last year. I'll pull that up while we're talking.

But yeah, you know, you get those guys out there. You expect you can trust them they're first in the team in terms of expected goals and all the fancies they've doing things the right way so it just comes down to a guy like klingberg who's played 22 and a half minutes getting lit up he's given up the most of anyone when he's on the ice of all the defensemen the most has happened in the wrong way so awesome one way high event the other way he's eric gustafson but awesome and four million dollars and four million dollars which gustafson was not the one sign that i've already seen that i i don't like this early is uh mark giordano in terms of his minutes

kind of creeping up a little bit. And it's obviously because there's a lack of trust with some other guys and some struggles here. But the more the other guys struggle, the more they're going to go rely on Gio. And they can't fall into that same trap of playing this guy 18, 20 minutes a night and then feel like March and April they're asking you know why is this playing dropped off so much well it's interesting because

going into this year it felt like they were wary of that right it was like okay you want to give Gio a little bit more rest I mean let's be honest there was talk about him retiring this summer I'm sure you had come across that as well he decided to come back he is you know he's under 17 minutes a night but it will be interesting like who's going to be the guy who's going to give him a night off throughout the season i understand it's october but as the year goes on yeah benoit yeah listen as far as effort is concerned, you'll never, this guy will not waver on that. His effort's there, his focus is there, his concentration there. Brain is there. The foot speed is not there.

No. And that's an issue in itself. And if the minutes are creeping up for a guy that at times has trouble keeping up to play or coming back, i.e. the Corey Perry goal, then where does Sheldon go after that? You know, he is smart enough, I think, that he has managed some decline of foot speed over the past couple years. As a Maple Leaf, he has managed his declining foot speed with his brain.

You can only do it for so long you know i don't know i don't know if it's you know what if the drop off is there at all maybe maybe he ends up just fine but it does i see your point kip that it is something to keep an eye on like okay minimal ask for him would be good in about 25 minutes we're going to welcome in gourd stellick someone that uh we've relied on heavily the last few years on real kipper and born uh can't wait to get his thoughts this early with the toronto maple leafs and then in the second hours we jump nationally here on uh here at sportsnet we got elliot friedman as well so stick around for that in the second hour as far as the changes up front i told you guys uh i i i like matthew nyes going into this uh this regular season and i liked where he was placed where we could just where the leafs could just hide him a little bit let him get stronger and just work his way up and

no no no no we're just gonna just gonna throw him into the fire going down to florida yeah so he's bumped up like it does after everything you've said over the past couple days it did make a lot of sense to just manage them i was like oh you know what they're they're doing it right and they're kind of hiding them a little bit and then as soon as they go start playing some good teams matthew nye's expected to start Tavares and Nylander against the Panthers. Yes, you got Nye, Tavares, and Nylander, and then that makes your third line Yarncroft-Minton-Domi. And that's not exciting you.

No, I am less than thrilled. I think since we've been covering the Leafs, that's their least inspiring third line. I mean, maybe, you know, Kelly Yarncroft's a name, Max Domi's a name, Minton's working his way into the league. Maybe there's more from these guys,

but so far, what we've seen this season, not overly thrilling. The Nyes thing's interesting, though. He hasn't played much this year. He's playing 12 minutes a night. Only the fourth line's

playing less. So maybe they just want to get him involved. And do we have a, does Keith comment on that? Does we have a... On NICE? We do.

We have the coach on that. All right, let's do it. I think NICE has a lot more to offer us as well. So there's that. And then, you know, sort of the change previously was to have Domi and Jarnkrok on different lines for different reasons, and now having them together, I think in terms of how their skill sets could play out for one another

and Yarny's stabling presence defensively, I think going out on the road makes some sense for us to give it a try. Niesel will go in there and just completely hold his own, for sure. Yeah. I've got no worries about him at all. Even from the end of the playoffs to where he is today, probably put on another 10, 12 pounds. He's got an NHL body.

He's got an NHL head. I love the way he protects the puck. He's not scared to try things. He's going gonna work his way in quickly here as a as a top left winger here in toronto i have no issues uh on that at all that would be great right and i agree that uh it's the right spot for him i've said he needs to play with some good players so let's give it some run let's give us matthew nyes he gets in the mix and he gets where he probably is going to end up by playoffs but that's what i worry about when i see sheldon keith doing this like oh yeah you have it at practice and but the first sign of

a defensive lapse it's like oh tinker with knives yeah he's like oh tinker and probably put you know yarn crock back up there for the third or whatever it just seems like he's not gonna stick with something like willie being a centerman yeah which was like we're gonna give it a real goal one or two preseason games? It's just, it feels like he has a tendency to not stick with stuff. A couple of wins and some signs that you can stick to some fundamentals defensively. And he'll stick with this all season long. It's just about passing the eye test here sammy and we the leafs have not done

that since the beginning of training camp yeah let's uh let's hear but it's not like keith is doesn't tinker with his squad and all the time he's been here like he's always been quick to change things up i have and i didn't know i was gonna bring that one to this show this version of the show but yeah he loves to tinker and it And it's something that I'd be surprised by, period two, of Thursday night's game that if Nyes is still there. Like, who knows who it will be? It just feels like a lot of it is just switching around. I do, you know, want to talk about that third line a little bit.

And Sheldon does have a comment we can hear on Domi's Ice Time. You know, since we've been doing the show, their third lines have been some version of kerfoot and mckeah and kasha and camp and you know a lot of guys like it's not good well i think it's been okay it hasn't been overwhelming by any means but i just this to me right now this line is like they're literally like i don't know okay let's go to Sheldon and find out if he knows. All right. Yeah, I think, you know, that's part of it, you know,

and it's similar to Nyes. Nyes' minutes are too low as well. But it's a challenge, you know. Players got to find their game individually. I got to help them along with that. Same time, you've got a lot of guys that you're trying to introduce and get going and get comfortable and all of that. At the same time, you've got a lot of guys that you're trying to introduce and get going and get comfortable and all of that. All four of our left wingers are new. So you're trying to find the right mix for everybody, but everybody is responsible for the minutes that they do get

to maximize them all the way through our lineup, and things will settle into place. But as we go out on the road, the rejigging of the lines here for me is more about trying to more consistently get guys out there. Special teams always play a role, too, in how that shakes out. Okay, and that stemmed off of someone asking about Domi's ice time at 12 or 13 minutes. Yeah, 12, 17. It's right into that sweet spot where a coach just is indecisive

on what he wants or what he's getting out of certain players. Yeah. He's indecisive. You're saying Sheldon. Sheldon. He's not sure what to ask of. Of Max right now. Yeah. And he's caught in between to ask of... Of Max right now. Yeah.

And he's caught in between... What do you want me to be? Well, I can't be a scorer if I'm not getting scoring minutes. And am I just... And now what stems to be a checking role? So, you know, put yourself in Sheldon Keefe's shoes going into tomorrow night

and you call in your third line of Yarncroft, Minton, and Domi. Minton, you're up. But you say, like, what are you looking for? What do you want from us? Because there is a sense, and these guys aren't dumb. They hear it, whether you're Edmonton or Toronto, that you've got all this firepower, but the word is that both clubs lack depth scoring. So your first thought, if you're Max, is I want to be your first depth score.

I want to be the guy that can follow up when there isn't a big goal from their core four. I need to be a guy that can alleviate some of that. I'm making 3 million bucks for God's sakes. I mean, that says that I need to be that guy. Yeah. Yeah. And I get that.

And you're probably right about that. So what this all stems from, if you ask me, is they want to give Fraser Minton some run. They don't want to give him ainton some run they don't want to give him a couple of games and send him home right because of the maybe that's discouraging or unfair to him to not give him a chance to get acclimated I understand all that but they they need a third line centerman to put the puck in the net too on occasion they do they they need a hockey you know an NHL guy there and right now you know we've got nick robertson in the

american league got five points in two games elliot's 32 thoughts came out today and we're going to talk to elliot later in the show but one of the things he said that was like if it goes on too long for robertson where he's having success in the american league the leafs aren't calling him up maybe he's a guy who would ask out of town you know is there any pressure then to say okay let's get minton back what's he waiting for he's he's not there's there's no room for him unless there's injuries well you send minton down you have willie place center all of a sudden you got a winger spot open you got more scoring coming up than minton you lose with minton to me they're really just don't

want willie taves uh i'm sorry uh Nyes, Bertuzzi, Max Domi, and you're going to fit in Nick Robertson. Maybe not, but I don't think you're worse, are you, than... Yeah. It feels like such a placeholder right now with Minton there. Yeah. And it's not even meant to be disrespectful. The kid has gotten better every night to me so far

in his regular season games. But he's not going to be there. And so you've got this kind of awkward thing happening where you've got guys who can play bobby mcmahon's off to a good start in the minors are one of these guys going to come up and maybe help you out there just give me a chance just give me a chance that's what we all wanted just a chance in this crazy game yeah give me a couple of players and a few shifts. Leafs with the Panthers tomorrow night. Let's get Sheldon Keefe's comments on facing the Panthers. Well, it's a regular season

game for us, so I don't think much of that is at play, at least not for me. Everybody's individual in that sense, but anytime you've been through a playoff series, it does add a little bit more for sure. I think right now, though, the focus really really you always want it to be about yourself, most importantly, but in the early going of the season, we really got to focus

on our own game and being as prepared as possible and continue to take positive steps towards a more complete game, which we haven't had yet. So we got to keep the focus on us, but certainly have a lot of respect uh for the opposition and know that it's going to be a challenge as our first road game so let me ask you this question you guys remember the last early road trip last year anaheim yeah the west coast swing yep yeah how did that one go not good but you know remember uh i think it was biz that was talking to them partying was not the language used, but they were out having a good time,

which no one was mad at him for. You know, I could see a similar result in this road trip. Go down to Florida, starting to get cold here, play some golf. Ultimately, I do think that this is a good hockey team. Really? Yeah, like I think they're going to be a good hockey team. I'm not trying to say they're not. We all had them.

Come on. Better than that. Winning the East. I didn't say. You never asked me once for my prediction on the show. Well, let's do it right now. What do you think the Leafs are? No, you never had them challenging for the Eastern Conference?

I mean, at one point, I was considering picking them for the Stanley Cup just to be that guy. Actually, you told me you were once. Yeah. Thankfully, no one asked me. Three games later, you're out. No, I think they're a good team but i think they're a little bit like kippers talked about like you've talked about borny that they're just not a very good defensive team right now and going on the road this is like the first big reeves road trip where they're all gonna be like yeah they're all talking every guy got asked about the road trip this

morning at practice they're all like i'm looking forward to getting out in the road like we'll probably go have a steak somewhere i don't know how much you look at like are you looking forward to it that much i just have a funny feeling that it might not be the rosiest road trip so let me get this straight this road trip goes sideways you're blaming ryan reeves because of a party and a dinner in a late party no i just i i think they're playing some good teams they're going to play florida who's a good team i know they're not at full strength but they still got a lot of great forwards challenge on the blue line they're going down they're playing tampa we all know tampa they're going to dallas they got to play against the caps like they're they're

playing some teams here and they're not i know the caps stink but they still got offensive players but they're yeah i just they're they might mid mid they might i but they're... Yeah. I just... They might... Mid. Mid. They might. I think they're playing the Kings on this trip, too. Like, they're just... Mid. They're playing some decent teams that are not firing off cylinders defensively. I could just see it going a little sideways.

That's all. I bet they're over in some of these. I think, like, for a guy like Max Domi, this is a welcome get out of town, right? But actually, it is a bad time to get pulled off a line with players right like florida's d is hurt no act blad no montour oels third in the nhl in time on ice you know like this would be a good time to go get some cookies no he needs some cookies is he cookie list yeah

he could use a he's a cookie or two for sure he's got the sam mitchell no i think he's got a zero doesn't have an apple i don't think so i'll check right now but he does have an assistant he's got a zero. Does he have an apple? I don't think so. I'll check right now. He does have an assist. He's got one? Okay, good. Not Sam Mitchell. He's got one more than Austin Matthews. Oh, my.

What? He's got more assists. Matthews is first in the NHL and passes to the slot first. Here we go. He's moving it a little bit. Who's he passing to? I haven't seen anybody shoot the puck in the slot. Tyler Bertuzzi?

I don't know. I don't know. He's first in slot passes. Yes, he is. And he's got goose eggs for helpers. Gooses. Absolutely. Maybe they're not good passes.

I don't know. Listen, it's according to sport logic. I'm sure it's been crazy a little bit for Max coming home. I would think so. How could it not be? The legend of Ty, you know, all around him. And I just think it's a good time for him to get out of town now. I also read zero articles and words,

and I also wrote that many, about Max, about his playmaking and ability to contribute to the top six. Everything was he lumped into the grit group. They got grittier with Bertuzzi and Domi and Reeves. Domi, Bertuzzi, Reeves. Reeves, Bertuzzi, Domi. He's never going to be a point-of-game guy.

But he's also not going to be Reeves. He can put 40 together, 50. Sure. But he's going to have to see a little power play time too. The guys can't just hog the whole two minutes. Sure they can. Oh, they will. So he's going to have to see a little power play time, too. The guys can't just hog the whole two minutes. Sure they can. Oh, they will. So he's going to score 50 even strength points.

What's that? He needs 40 or 50 even strength points. He needs to be Kerfoot. Kerfoot had 50 to one. Oh, my God. I know. I know. It's brutal.

But Kip, they're the second best power play in the league last year. They're probably first right now. Tough to say they should do something different to get Domi involved. I mean, I don't know. So it's tough. It's a chicken and the egg thing here with Domi and the ice time. There's going to be an injury at some point. But no, it's like, do you give them more or give them less?

It's hard for Kiefer. It's like, if I put them out there, is it going to be better or is it going to be worse? That's the constant challenge for anybody outside of being a star. Yeah, you're right. You're right. But it's like, are you rewarding the guy if you then give him 18 minutes and PP1? He hasn't been very good.

Like, it's tough. I guess that's why Sheldon's paid the big bucks. You know, Max isn't the only one at times looking a little indecisive or not choosing the best option here. This has been a team-wide issue. Yeah. But, I mean, the issue is that they've given up as many goals as they've scored.

But, yeah, you're right. Offensively, Sheldon has complained that they haven't taken care of the puck very well in the offensive zone. Quite a few turnovers. They've played three pretty marginal teams too yeah and we know how the leafs are in those sort of games like i guess the wild are a pretty good team but you know wild card team right and especially the blackhawks and the habs like they have had a history as we all know and i've talked about a million times the show of playing

crappy against those crappier teams so i'll be interested to see what they're going out against some good teams, right? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And so it seems like Ilya Samsonov will get the start, be the guy Thursday night. Confirmed. You're saying that like there's a twinge of maybe it should be Wall. Are you? I'm asking him. I'm just saying we're having the conversation every day because we don't know.

It's not like he's, you know, UC Soros. It's obviously Samsonov tonight. Yes. Thursday night and Saturday night. Lock. Thursday and Saturday. No question. Oh, hold on for a second.

Saturday night, Tampa Bay. Why am I saying here we go so much today? Of course. You get blown out. Samsonov gets blown out. He drops his stick three times during the game, and you're going to give him the start in Tampa Bay. That's a nice warm-up for me.

Okay, that's where I don't necessarily agree with you. Now, these are both starting goalie starts. If you're the starting goalie, he starts both these games. He's got a post-game show. He's the guy. Listen, he starts both these games. And if he's not. He's got a post-game show. He's, you know. He's the guy. Listen, I don't want to be the guy that's defending Samsonov or defending goalies in general, but I just think if he's the starting goalie,

he starts both these games. Don't you think? You're not convinced, Kippy. I just don't know that anyone's declared him the starting goalie. With what I've seen, I'm not convinced on much right now. I'm not even game to game. I'm shift to shift with these guys until i start seeing some some build yeah i get building blocks 100 okay so uh are we gonna see reeves going at

it with matthew kachuk because florida doesn't necessarily have a you know i don't know who else can he tangle with but uh uh i said today kept it to you guys for the starting trap yeah i was just gonna say we saw him go with cory perry who's not necessarily a heavyweight type of guy so like and why are we still talking about cory perry i know uh and ryan reeves i don't know but let's listen to the clip with here at reeves okay yeah i mean i never really liked him to be honest we always seem to kind of run into each other when we play against each other but uh yeah not a lot of love for that guy where's that day back to

first day i met him on the ice is there anything in particular that makes him hateable uh just the way he runs his mouth. I don't know. He kind of acts tough. He's not tough. I don't know. Doesn't drop the glove, do you? No.

No, definitely wouldn't. Okay, this is where, like, I got to beef with the media. No, they just can't wait. Just give us a lot. They're gone. Chicago is out of town. You want to give me, you want to ask a cory perry question and you're playing him that night i get it okay build it up sell it whatever the guy leaves

he's gone the game's over that game was money and i think ryan reeves came into practice the next day and said hey guys come on over here i still got a few things to talk to about Corey Perry. So he gets led into this. He's getting killed for it. Is he? Yeah, I'm just like, you know, a good gauge is Twitter or whatever, a good Instagram. And, like, I'm looking at the comments of all these,

and they're just like, oh, who's Reeves to say this about Perry? He's an idiot. Why is he saying this? I don't understand why Ryan needed to go down that. He just answered a question. That's what I mean. I know, but you know when he answers it the way he decides to answer it, it's

going to make some headlines. Are you going to act up? It's going to get us to talk about it. He's right, though. Everything he said there was bang on. Yeah, it's fair. he's been a bit of a bluffer it's the time to have said it though when is when they play chicago next 100 couldn't be more i can talk to you want to you want to lead them you want to egg them on what about matthew

kachuk yeah give me some comments on matthew kachuk go revisit how kachuk kachuk. Go revisit how... Kachuk. Kachuk. And what he did to the Toronto Maple Leafs in the second round. Why not go there? He did have some comments on Kachuk too. He didn't clip them though for me. Because he didn't say anything. He said he respected them. Why would we want to play that? Where's the fun in that?

We are the media. You're brutal. You're just one of those vultures. Let's get Cord Stelic's thoughts on all this. Yes. Is he there? Is he waiting? No. We're just going to go to break.

We're going to break. Do you have something more before we go to break? No, I'm good. All right. All good. I'm good. All right. He's in waiting, but we're going to go to break first.

Yep. All right. Stelicricity for the first time this year on the Real Kipper Unborn show after the break. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Just a friendly reminder, if you aren't lucky enough to listen to us on Sportsnet 590s or Sportsnet 360 or Sportsnet Plus, you can always download us wherever you get your podcasts and give us a rating and review. And text us at 590-590 with your thoughts. Yes, as long as we like them. Right, and if we don't, then just don't?

Yes, and then don't. If we're not going to like them, don't do it. All right, let's welcome in our next guest, and I always like to refer to him as Stelictricity, because that's what we get. But then Sammy tells me, Gord Stelic, that when he hears that buzzing sound, it sounds like a fart. I thought he feels it sounds like a defibrillator.

Who does Sammy dine with? What do people eat that you hang with? Listen, the last thing I want people to think of is you and flatulence. Yeah, no. I don't want that. No. So either, I don't know, we need to find another electric sound. Do we not?

Let's work on that. No, we don't. Are we going to keep that one? Yeah, it's a spark. It's a spark. I try to ignite a spark, okay? Okay. And that's what still electricity is about.

It's kind of, okay, you got your new digs there, right? So sometimes it's like George Vandy's a spark. I try to ignite a spark, okay? And that's what Stell Electricity is about. It's kind of, okay, you got your new digs there, right? So sometimes it's like George Vandy Secondary School. Kippy, you and I are proud alumnus of there. It was a pretty difficult school. You needed a pulse to get a 50, and basically, whatever, we did it, okay? You got a classroom sometimes. You never went to the library. The cafetorium, that's a mixture of the, you know,

like the food services and whatever. You can chat. You're having casual chat. We're going to the old-fashioned smoking area for Stalactricity. How about that? Remember that outside? Yeah, that's the real talk. That's the real talk.

You brought some back, some scary high school memories, Gord Stalic. Okay, Gord, always love your insights to the Toronto Maple Leafs, and it's so early. Are you going to be one of those guys right now that says, hey, calm down, or did you see enough in terms of what you didn't like moving forward here? Where are you on what you've witnessed so far? Okay, so I know Elliot's on next hour, and he'll talk about calming down

because he says league wise there's way more pressure he's been hearing from players agents man like in exhibition games this year it's almost like when covid was on people were given us you know given a pass just to get back to normal okay so my thing colorado boston vegas they're the only three teams that have had a swimmingly great first week and you know arguably they may be the only three teams that have had a swimmingly great first week. And, you know, arguably they may be the best three teams in the league. I'll do partial calm down and also say, hey, hey, it's a lot of still exhibition hockey. The remnants creep into October. Pretty entertaining games, the first two.

Sloppy, but made them entertaining. They couldn't score more than two goals the last seven playoff games. So they honed in on offense a bit and showed they can do that a bit and that's something you still you know need uh otherwise they found ways to win okay not classics but they found ways to win two of those game now they head out in the road and i also think you know kippy and and justin being former players every now and then a coach doesn't mind a loss because you can kind of say now they're going to start to listen to me again okay it was great it was wonderful but you can't between between you showed a graphic yesterday you can't be between 28th and 31st in goals against and say percentage and five on five

i mean you got you got to work on that but i'm okay with the first week okay i'm okay with kind of the helter skelter hudson's bay rules being two and one i'm okay with it gordon we've spent a lot of time trying to figure out the holes right it's uh you know what do we think of this third line not sure about these d pairs but the reality is this team has always been built one way superstars right a few tentpole guys that need to play well and if they do the team's probably going to be pretty good what have you made of the starts of their big four forwards? Obviously, Austin Matthews has been good. What are your thoughts with the remaining crew there?

Well, boy, Austin Matthews has been dominant. Wow, wow. And then, okay, the supporting cast, Nylander, I've liked him. I've liked his consistency. Taveras got the one nice goal. Mitch Marner, I mean, they haven't stood out as much as Austin Matthews has. I like the fit the new guy Bertuzzi's had. It's not, the problem is, we're talking about them again, and you guys were talking about third and fourth line,

that depth is going to be the issue down the road, trying to go deep in the playoffs. I think that's why, obviously, Willie Nylander playing center is still in the back pocket. Nick Robertson coming up down the road is still in the back pocket. But it was kind of, you know, kind of in a lot of ways the big guns are bust, which isn't the ideal playoff setup. But I like the way all in all.

Again, that's part of what made the excitement. That's what people were talking about. People were entertained. Hey, you're seeing Washington's having a hard time selling tickets. Winnipeg had their against Pierre-Luc Dubke dubois coming back their lowest crowd in years you know home crowd like like you know it's an there's an entertainment component to the game at the price the tickets are now around the nhl especially in toronto and and they like to see the big maybe it's not how you hoist a cup but the big guns certainly delivered in two of those three games as far as the depth is uh max domi came in probably had a few options the one the sentimental one was coming

home uh and gordon i mean we've been around this market long enough for both of us to understand that it's such a a double-edged sword uh high risks coming here, but high rewards too if it works out. What have you made out of his first three games? Okay, what I found with him was he had a great start, as you know, with Arizona, and then whatever. It never got to the next level. And how he played in Dallas and Carolina coming late in the season and in the playoffs is how I viewed him.

You know, he's a he's a complimentary player. He's a by and large been a third line player. I know he could play on the fourth line or what have you. I mean, that's where I've seen his role. Has it been there after three games? No. Has the flip been there for John Klingberg in a two way rule? No.

Did I expect it after three games? No, I really didn't. You don't want to Nick Ritchie repeat experience about we're going, you know, that was bigger. He was on the first line, right? And he had to make some headway, couldn't do it. Michael Bunting then seized that opportunity. That's not what's expected

out of Max Domi. But there's, again, that's a process about finding those roles that, as we'll keep talking about, the most important time will be game number 83 about if people have got acclimated to appropriate roles that makes you a better playoff team after three games what is your impression of the decision to keep Fraser Minton with the big club I'm up in the air about it I think you know and and you guys talked about Justin, that the understanding is they're not going to keep him as a fringe player.

We all know that. And they're up front about that. If he's going to be a fourth liner and getting, you know, eight minutes a game, that's not the plan. They saw something in him starting with the Traverse City tournament, the rookie tournament, how he played. They saw something in him that they felt he could be an upgrade as number three center. So I, if it's going to be, you know, go up to the 10th game

before you make a decision. And I also think Justin and guys that he doesn't, you know, like, like I'm obsessed about don't blow that year. Okay. I think with my management hat, but when you're talking about that, I mean that, that year of, you know, protection and whatever you want to call it, waivers and the contract, the rookie cap. But if you're talking about that, I mean, that year of, you know, protection and whatever you want to call it, waivers and the contract, the rookie cap. But if you're talking about making hay like the Leafs are, then you can be unafraid about that. Because if you really think this is going to make you a better, you know, better team overall, and you see something that we're talking about him at the 40 game mark that we start to see more and more. I mean, I think you go back, Columbus would, if they had a do-over, they would have kept Cole Sillinger in junior, right?

He just happened to play really well. And two years later, you would have been better off keeping him in junior one of those two years. But I'm willing to see it more evolve, again, after three games, because it's been just really exhibition hockey, going exciting hockey, Friday night shinny hockey in many ways, that it's been a tough kind of games to really assess it. We're talking to Gord Stelic, our Leaf analyst

and former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Matthew Knives is going to get bumped up as early as tomorrow night. We're going to see him with Tavares and Nylander. It's not like he's lit up the lamp in any way, shape, or form, but in my opinion, it certainly looked as good as I thought he would coming in a very short stint in the playoffs. Now, were you guys talking earlier?

Did you like the move, Kip, being bumped up or not? I'm trying to remember. I listened to the show earlier. Gord, it was inevitable. I just wish it would have come from an area of strength and not kind of, I need to make a change here. It would have been great if you could kind of bring him along a little slower. And honestly, I think the bottom six are better off with Nyes, but right now the feeling is get them up there in the top six rule.

I would have liked to have seen this in November, December. That's all. Okay, I mean, that's what I thought. See, I was flipping back and forth. There was a real good Hawaii 5-0 TV rerun on Channel 11. So anyway, I was going back and forth to your chat. Okay, now I got it. Okay, so the point is I finally got it. I don't even know where to go over that one.

Does that show still exist? Wait. On Channel 11, every show still exists, okay? Whatever, you name it. Real Kipper and Bourne will be there in 75 years. They'll be playing this episode. So this guy last year, I was being cautious to everybody. Okay, don't, you know, too many people coming with the big name

and don't throw him in. I was so impressed how he played in the playoffs. So I see what you say, Kipper, but hey, let's put him there. To me, he belongs there. That's where he belongs. Like to get a second round pick on a team that's traded away a lot of draft picks

before you don't have a ton of them, this is a bonus in the fact he'll have a couple of years anyway on the entry level. But I've liked, I thought, last year in the playoffs in a real difficult time before I got hurt to show your wares. I thought he did an excellent job. So I'm good with him moving to the big line. Again, you know, we got to do better.

When I say we, I mean Toronto Maple Leafs have to do better about the three and fourth line balance and depth. I love Justin bringing up Kerfoot because he sort of is the, you know, it's no disservice to him, but it's kind of like, okay, if you translate it, it wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough. And that's where they're going to have to get that kind of balance. The best three teams right now, Colorado, Vegas, and maybe Boston.

Wow, Boston. Right now, I know it's only been two games they've played, but have shown that's what they've got to evolve over the 82 games. So I had no problem moving him up to the second line. You know, well, we're having the conversation about their depth, guys. A guy who comes up that we haven't discussed a lot on this show so far is David Kemp. He signed a new four-year, $2.4 million contract this offseason,

and he was a guy who was, I believe, fifth in forwards ice time for the Leafs last season. This year, they're barely using the guy. He was number one in D zone starts for them last year. I think he's dead last, or he was last game anyway. He played less than 10 minutes last game. Like, does this not seem like a guy who's either with guys that make the coach not trust his line, or they're just not getting enough from so far?

You know, funny one kind of like you know cali yarn croak that when okay you're saying okay the trade-off is that you feel by the term then you're you with the money by you know by getting the term you've got a deal i mean pierre engvall signed like the roberto luongo version this year with the islanders right seven years gosh i don't know boy boy, Lou. Hope he's okay. Anyway, that was a bit, so yeah, I'm, again, we got 79 regular season games left to see, but I kind of thought they saw a more definitive fit when they gave him this particular deal.

Now, maybe it is that they're trying some other things out, including Minton or whatever it may be, but yeah, right now, kind of saying like four years. I mean, you're playing him like a guy you would sign to like a PTO. Right. That's the way he's being used right now. So in which case, if he doesn't, you know, it's a bad contract. Now, I know it's not a $7 million hit or something, but still, you've got to try to avoid bad contracts.

So I'm not saying it is, but yeah, it's a little contradictory. The message from the contract compared to how he's been used the first three games is a total opposite. We briefly touched on Rick Tockett, his outburst yesterday after a 2-0 loss against Philadelphia, and we're going to get into that a little bit more specifically in the second hour. But, Gord, I'll throw this to you first,

and I'd like to get your thoughts, JB. If things don't go as well as Leaf fans hope in the state of Florida, is there a chance we could see a different Sheldon than the one at times showed to be very careful under Kyle Dubas? Yeah, yeah. You know, and Nick, I don't know how many years ago, but I remember you and I went just somewhere like east of some establishment with Rick Talkett. You know him quite well.

I didn't know him as well, but he had appeared. And I don't know. He's just got a great aura about him and that. So I was, Hey, he must, he must've said, look, I am when I get pissed off the first time, I'm going to use one of my few bullets to just go rip my team publicly because before puck drop, people were talking about the Stanley Cup parade in Vancouver. And I think, you know, okay, so let, Hey, it's tough code out that balance about on the ice and off the ice, what you can do, what you can't do, when it works, when it doesn't work. And I think in Sheldon's case that he's, he feels a freer reign that he won't have to walk back any comments. I, you know, I think part of it, I think there's a healthy process.

John Cooper's done it. John Cooper's benched some of the elite players. That, that is part of it along the way that you're showing the team that, look, I'm getting an accurate read what's going on. Because in the dressing room, they kind of know that, hey, so-and-so okay is coaching right now and whatever and getting away with it. And if the coaching staff can identify all those things, I think that garners a lot of respect even from the individual to get a shout-out against. So I think, yeah, I think that uh whatever like it's

weird he didn't like kyle dubas was his guy but he almost had some shackles that he had to walk back and you know which which made it lamer right which made it lamer uh and i think at this particular point he's been through it all he understands the pressure of coaching in toronto the media in toronto and you know choose your words smartly and carefully. But I think that's going to be part of what's going to be needed over this regular season. I think what's hard too, Kip, is like if your talk it and your best players or your important people aren't playing well,

that's when you can go out and it's worthwhile to make a public statement and you're really calm. Like what's the point of being like, we need more from Fraser Minton Fraser Minton you know like the Leafs best players have been pretty darn good so far but yeah to your point if they go out and the best guys aren't able to keep it up and they lose a couple games I could see it happening at that point hey who's calling you and interrupting our world-class show who's calling me uh you just just all kinds of people they're they're hearing me and that so i i finally learned how to push the silent vibrate thing i got i got like big fred flintstone figures fingers and all that stuff so i'm just getting facetious you know

operators are standing by you know and kippy you're that guy right that justin's talking about from time i'm saying that with respect it used to bug me Or even when you played high school sports that the coach said, I'm going to make some changes. And then the guy that played a woman that played three minutes is cut from the team. You know, I used to piss me off. It's like,

I, I like, well, you were the guy that got cut. Well, the basketball team. Yeah. It would be five,

eight and real stocky. It wasn't my thing, but I had some other sports I was adept at, but I, I, I i part of it is being able to and then the big part is the leadership group respecting it not getting pissed off not what was me not whatever look i gotta get rid of this guy it's it's a very interesting dance and i think that the leaf uh the leaf core and sheldon keith have got to know each other through

thick and thin times and uh i i think could be a positive, how that plays out. Are you in a group chat for Hawaii Five-0? Is that what's going on? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, book them, Dano. They just said book them, Dano. So, no, I'm in no chat. And I was watching your show, the three of you.

And, you know, it kind of looks like a bad version of the dating game in some ways, whatever. But, you know, the three of you when you got Sammy out there. But I've been really enjoying the new format. Over the years, we've been able to talk to you from various places around Toronto. No dogs today. The zoo. Pioneer Village. Pioneer Village. Pioneer Village.

Yeah. The dog pound. Well, the dog pound. Where in the world is Bord Steli? I've got to move her out again. Yes. I've got to move her again. Yeah, the next time we talk to you, it's on Zoom,

and it's got to be somewhere really unique like you are. Like Hawaii, maybe. Okay. I'll put a Magnum PI shirt on or something like that. We'll do that. We'll have a beach party, something like that, that kind of theme. You know, with the Leafs being on the road, right? We'll have kind of a party, like a five-game road trip.

Zoom background. For sure, and then I'll tell Sammy, book them, Gordo. Okay. All right, listen. See you, guys. Just Channel 11, I think it's a party game uh after hawaii 5-0 so i better go billy van okay current references for our audience captain jack all right hey just suddenly gonna bring him up to date don't worry it'll all be good see you guys all right

hard to believe that he was one time general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. What the hell was any of that? He's more of a TV critic. What was any of that? I don't know. What? Is that a reflection on us that he's watching Hawaii Five-0 while he's talking to us? Should we be a tad insulted? Yeah, a little bit.

Or is Hawaii Five-0 that good? Just a great program, I'm told. I don't think I've ever seen it. Your question you asked to Gordo, to me, was a big-time wake-up call about David Kampf. Yeah, yeah. Something I hadn't really thought of. He kind of floated under the radar.

They're barely using him this year. Took him for granted at that contract. He just didn't really think about it, but you're right. The first goal, I know everyone's talking about McCabe tightening up in front of the the net but that first goal if you go watch chicago's first goal the other night i had to i had to look twice on a replay to see if it was david camp that did the drive by on athena see you and if you're not going in there and eliminating your man right on contact and you're david camp then you have

nothing else to offer the toronto maple leafs yeah i mean he's playing 11 minutes for them which is lower than like last season i think he was 15 16 minutes i think he was fifth on the team in ice time amongst forwards last year he played pretty consistently and he won draws and they put him out in d zone starts right now the matthews line is starting their d zone a lot more than they ever have more than the camp line because they don't camp is not a defensive line anymore so you have created a problem for your first line when your fourth line isn't doesn't have a role or a clear purpose so i would say this is becoming an issue with this team this year is this bottom six if you can't score you're better defending if you're not defending we need new people yeah three games maybe a little bit rash

of a that's just the path we're headed down is is reeves for a tough guy playing too much for you no i don't think he plays a ton i just think but the numbers suggest that uh they they spend too much time in their own zone yes when he's he's been out there, that line has been, they've been outscored, they get outshot 2-1, they're getting outchanced. Like, they just, you know, what's the role of the fourth line? Like, you played as a bottom six guy mostly, right? Yeah.

Get it off the glass, go finish your checks, don't play in your own end. Just, I would sweat bullets if I spent longer than five seconds in our own zone. Because you know, you know that coach is going, oh, there's one. Who's the scariest guy you got caught out against? Keenan started myself, Mike Hudson, and Joey Kosher one night at Madison Square Garden. That's a big deal.

Yeah. Okay? To start. Oh, yeah. He's like, go get us some momentum, boys. And we got pinned in our own zone. And we were running around. By who?

Do you remember who pinned you in? I'm just talking about I don't recall the team that we played. This is what I do recall. It was the longest skate to the bench where it's like, Joey, you go first, and then I'll follow. And then I sit down on the bench, and you hear nothing, and I'm going, this is good, this is good. And then all I heard Keenan say, boys, quicken the shifts,

because we're only going with three lines tonight. Oh, tonight. Oh, yeah. He'd seen enough. He'd seen enough. All three of us. Great view. Great view of an NHL game now.

People pay a lot of money for a view like that. Kind of like the old school talk it after two games. Did you get back out there? No. Wow. Bolted. Yeah. Because we got pinned in for one shift.

Yeah. I don't like that coaching. Coaches do that today at all. Not so much. Although, seeing a little bit of old Lindy and Rick Talkett. I want to pick up that conversation because we're going to go into depth on Rick Talkett. Just absolutely giving it to the Vancouver Canucks after a great start in their first two games. That plus Elliot Friedman, hockey's number one insider, will join us live in studio.

Stick around. It's going to be a great hour. More to come after the break on Real Kipper and Bourne.