Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Buds Smell Blood

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a look at the Leafs' matchup tonight against the lowly Sharks and the wide range of competitiveness across the NHL. Then, a look at Leafs' goaltending, Jones once again getting the nod over Hildeby, an update on Samsonov's progress away from the team, whether he should get some AHL run and potential spaces for him to make his NHL return. Afterwards, on Nick Robertson getting scratched and how the Leafs should use him. Finally, NHL Network's Jason Demers (29:01) shares his thoughts on the Sharks' rebuild, a player's POV of long losing streaks and tees up their matchup in Toronto tonight.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's welcome everybody into the real kipper and born show leaf edition wherever you're watching wherever you're listening, Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6, Eastern Time. We are so glad you are with us. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick,

all with you for the next two hours. You know, I got to say that right off the top of the show, like when I walk in, you guys make me laugh. Because you take one look at me and you check me out and you're like, different shoes, a vest today. JB, you got a haircut. Like, what's going on? What's going on?

Because we want to know because our lives are so boring and you always seem to have something going on. You know, it's January, and if you're not showing up in galoshes and whatever, you're going somewhere, and I want to know where. Where are you going? Sam apparently has no microphone. Sammy's out of the loop. Hey, guys.

Let me just set the stage. Are you here? All right. I'm back. Yeah, you look good today, Kipper. If I told you something, Kipper, would you believe that I talked about the Leafs on New Zealand radio today? No.

Yeah, I did. I did. He talked. What was the guy's name? I talked to my boy, Logan Swinkles. Oh, Swinkles. Swinkly. Hold Swinkles. the guy's name? I talked to my boy, Logan Swinkles. Oh, Swinkles. Swinkly. Hold Swinkles.

It didn't stem from a wrong number? No, no. The guy follows me on Twitter. He somehow loves the Leafs, and he has a radio show down there, and I went on. I put the Leafs in for you. I cannot be striking a chord in New Zealand. Who is that playing to? They were doing their around the world thing.

They went and did something on the Lakers, and they talked about the Leafs. They asked me about Otani at one point. So that's exciting stuff. Yeah. So my Otani at one point. So that's exciting stuff. Yeah. So my life's not that boring. Not that boring at all. I would also like to clarify that I greatly aspire to have a more boring

life. Have you looked outside? Yeah, it's horrible. It is like, I need to like snort some vitamin D or something. It is depressing out there. You gotta go somewhere? Well, I'm gonna take in the Leaf game. Okay, that's fine. I'm sure a lot of people are going to San Jose. Why?

Why? Fair enough. I was surprised at the amount of people in the office today. Walked in. I was like, there's a good crew here. Usually on a day like today, it's a little quiet around here. You had trouble pulling yourself out of the sheets today a little bit. 11 p.m. game for the Zig Zags last night uh two one overtime nice oh yeah all right well the show's

gonna get exciting in the next 30 minutes uh jason demers former nhler uh who does uh some great work with the nhl network is gonna come by or at least call in because we'll be on Zoom. Because we got Brian Burke coming by physically at the top of the hour, which will be great. But Jason will answer my question. Who's on the Sharks? Who's on the Sharks? What happened to the Sharks? He might not know who's on the Sharks,

but he might know what happened to the Sharks. Yes. So coming off again, the official news of Willie Nylander signing a mammoth $92 million contract. The Leafs back to work tonight against the San Jose Sharks at Scotiabank Arena. And I don't know. I mean, is this going to be just one of those based on what we saw on the weekend? What were the dominated shots to start the game,

20, 22 to three or something ridiculous. It's worth noting that the Leafs just had their best road trip of the season, maybe their best stretch of three games of the year. And yesterday we maybe said nine words about it. So yes, they went out in San Jose and took it to the Sharks. But I mean, that was quite the trip, was it not? Did you see anything out of this Leafs team that made you go, okay?

LA. The game against LA. And I don't know if LA's pulled back a little bit. They've come back to earth. They haven't won in five straight. They haven't, right? Would have loved the Leafs to have beat them when they were hot so yes i think i think that may have to come into play as far as anaheim and san jose i don't they handled their business and for the most part they've done a terrific job the last five years handling their

business during the regular season and i'm not taking anything away but I don't know whether or not we can truly answer that type of question that you had was it you and JD or someone on another show that included you guys had a conversation on are the Leafs now underrated is that was that you no wasn't me maybe it was JD just some other generic okay do you think people are having that type of conversation or is that even a fair question to throw out on our show i've have the leafs turned a corner where to your point should we not be talking about how great they were in california, you know, I know where you're going with this because I can see the case for the Leafs being underrated.

And you go, you know, when healthy, that decor been pretty good. Like Lilligren, Jordano over the last couple of years, when they're on the ice, the other is third pair,

been pretty darn good. Ben was been better. McCabe's been better. You could talk yourself into this team, but then you do have to take opponent into consideration so i would say the leafs are on the cusp of a cup contender there's like a group of them there that you would say are cup contenders and the and the leafs are right there so i don't know where people see them but that's that's where i got them right now 40 games in are we going back to elite league talk here? Yeah, I think we are, Sammy.

I think we are. Do we need to create a new league? I think. Was that the first year we did that or was that the second year? I think it's a legitimate point once again is out of 32 teams, how many are bona fide Stanley Cup contenders? How many are on the cusp? How many are just challenging to be a relevant team come March?

I look at the standings here, and to me, it's a pretty clear cut. Like, you go the top 10 teams in the league, then it goes to the Kings, and then the Kings are 11th, and then it's the islanders at 12 flyers predators everyone i'm looking at here i'll go through you know kings leafs hurricanes golden knights dallas stars florida panthers new york rangers abs canucks bruins jets you could see all those teams winning the cup well the top 10 teams the league you could see yeah and yes they can concur like it's still shocking if somebody happened to be in a coma at the beginning of september and woke up today and heard you say

vancouver and winnipeg yeah as legit cup contenders but they're legit probably go back to sleep the canucks i know we're gonna get to that in the second hour, but my God, did they lay a beating on the Rangers last night? Yeah. Skilled team. But are the Leafs in that conversation? And I'm not sure if people are really convinced still that Vancouver has what it takes to win a cup or even Winnipeg for that wonderful run and very consistent, a heck of a lot more consistent than the Leafs

over the course of what 35 games now i guess and veronic and zadorov trades 37 38 games we when we talked to brough whenever that was and there was like a guarded yeah he wasn't ready to say this is real and i will say i think there's a little bit of that here too too. No, no, no. Compared to what they're experiencing now, the Leaf fans are world beaters in the last five years of being guarded. Oh, yeah. They've seen 115 points before

get flushed down the toilet in April. Yeah. They're the kings of guarding. But this is the weirdest year, Sam. So you listed 10 teams there, the top 10 that you think in terms of points right now that could win the cup.

If you go beyond that, the Kings are at 11. You put them in that class. I guess Oilers are 20th. The Devils are 15th. You can talk me into it. The Lightning are there. The Penguins are 19th.

The Oilers are 20th. Like this year, as much as any, it's a wide open field. Buddy, you got to do a lot of talking to get the penguins and the lightning into that conversation with me no no i've watched them play both those teams play a lot like they're just they're very possible making the playoffs teams like i think but like winning the cup is a different thing to me anyways and where are you on needing to see

more games like you saw in California where you're just, yeah, they're the better team over 60 minutes. We're also factoring in that they lead the league in lack of success during regulation, that they've needed to come back late on a few occasions or needed overtime. Does that factor in? Do you care about the fact that they only have one more regulation win than the Ottawa Senators?

Is that current as of today? Because, I mean, they just had three regulation wins in a row. I got to believe they're starting to pull away from that group a little bit. I just... Sammy? I really don't care about how you win. I do. Well, I just think...

I do. Outside of having the conversation where it's like none of this matters because it's all the playoffs for this team as it is. Yeah, but it does matter. Well, no, it doesn't really. Because you carry habits from your regular season into the playoffs, Sammy.

Yeah. You don't flick a switch. No, you're right. But I think, you know, you getting hot at the right time has a lot to you're right but i think you know you're getting hot at the right time has a lot to do with it too where you look at last year with the panthers getting hot right at the right time they go deep they're a good team clearly but they weren't as good as they were in the playoffs all year like it's just getting hot at the right time having your injury it is there's so much of that kipper yes yeah it's getting hot at the right time with

the right habits, Sammy. But you know what, Kip? Last year, their habits, they went to California and got their asses handed to them. So this has to be taken as a positive step to say, we've been losing way too much to these bad teams. They went out and played a 60-minute game three times in a row. I mean, they have just looked over that stretch to me like a team that was like, you know, we can't keep handing away points.

And I think there's some encouragement. Yeah, and there's 45 games to go, guys. So plenty of time to start working on the consistencies. And tonight, what does tonight look like? Is it continuing business as usual? Is it coming from behind? Is it needing to go to Mitch, Marner, and Austin for 24 or 25 minutes? Vancouver looked real good from their top line to their bottom line last night

and managed to come back not only soundly beating the Rangers, but doing it with everybody under 19 and a half minutes. Yeah. Take a look at their lineups. They got a ton out of everybody without needing to go to the wall with their stars. Where do the Leafs start looking now moving forward? If I had access to my computer i

would look up the times the guys played that's what i'm doing right now in anaheim because i don't know they were they were really low yeah they were really low in that game because we talked about it on least talk after like i think marner was around 15 oh really oh they were really low yeah tonight i'd like to see max play 17 minutes yeah you know we're kind of getting to that point you've talked about how this team is going to get enough points one thing that's been really encouraging is the Leafs have given up one five on five goal uh I think over the last four games they they've been playing well so yeah now that you feel like they have things their house in order let's get max a real game I want to see more power play time back in sure let's let's start to put some guys in some

different spots and kind of figure out, particularly against San Jose, not to take them too lightly, but I think putting guys in different situations kind of gets their attention a little bit. It's almost a way of waking them up and saying, you know, we need you to pay attention tonight. So I would like to see some changes to there. Okay, we're going to discuss Martin Jones' workload.

He'll get the start again tonight. Before we do that, let's go to Sheldon Keefe for our first Kippers Clipper of the day. Yeah, I think he's handling it great. Handled it great, certainly, on the road trip. There hasn't really been much workload in the last few days. I think going into the game tonight, he's only played one game in the last five days.

So from that aspect, I think he's feeling good and rested and obviously confident. So easy decision to keep him going. See, I knew he'd come in with a standard cliche answer. That's why I asked you about your password on your computer. Was that on air? Yeah, like, see that little black thing that's around me? When you say things, everyone hears it. You gotta press the button off.

I've told you this. I'm not a professional host. I'm just pretending. Like any corporation where you have to change your password every nine seconds, it doesn't always go smoothly. So I'm just, you know know guessing on stats today okay so we thought we'd see the hilda beast at some point it doesn't look like it's happening i don't know if it if it will now i don't how can it if they're not gonna play him against the ducks on the second half of back-to-back not at home on the road how are they

they're not gonna start them on sunday but i think part of that was like he had just joined the team. He hadn't seen NHL shots. Let's get him in practices, get him acclimated. Okay, you've had a week with the team. Maybe now it's like, now play him against the damn Sharks tonight. I think it's a mistake. Something that we haven't really looked at much. Hold on.

You would play Hildeby tonight? I want to see. Come on. You would play Hildeby tonight? I'd want to see. Come on. I'd like to see what he is at this level. And I'm not going to base anything on one start, but let's just say for one second that Samsonov's done his little stint and he comes back and he's no good. We're right where we were two weeks ago. That's extremely possible, by the way.

That's probably the most likely scenario. Why the delay then? You just pushed everything back. Now we still got to give him his first game. We got to see what he's like. still got to give him his first game we got to see what he's like we got to see him handle certain situations why why not do it now why why potentially have to go to it a week or two weeks from now and it feels like let's say jones you know he's he's been wonderful and they're going to rely on this guy as a backup or whatever

if there's an injury or two you're not that far away from Hildeby playing a meaningful game for you. And so game 40-41 against the Sharks, which is an AHL and a half team, you know, it's the perfect sort of get your feet wet. I'm with you, Kip. I just think let's at least just get this out of the way, rip the Band-Aid off. So you, Sammy, are assuming that Samsonov is going to come back and it'll be happily ever after with their goaltending situation

with Martin, Wohl coming back. I don't think that. I don't think. I'm looking at the schedule here for this week. Three games before the back-to-back, right? They go to Long Island after tonight. Then they play the Avalanche on Saturday. And the first start that Jones won't do will be that Sunday night one.

Is there a potential the guy who started that is not on the team yet like if sunday night sunday night like i don't samsonov don't you think i don't i don't think that's way too soon okay let's let's go to sheldon keith on a samsonov update and we'll pick it up after we hear this clip two uh just you know i'm gonna take a day at a time he's actually i think he's After we hear this. Clip two. Just, you know, going to take it a day at a time. He's actually, I think he's on the ice at Marley's practice right now with those guys, which is sort of a step for him because he's been just skating on his own and spending some time to himself.

So, you know, that's the plan. I can't think he can speak any lightlier on eggshells. He's just spending time by himself. Okay. He's now taking practice with the Marlies. It's a big step for him, practicing with the American Hockey League team they're pretty nervous about where he's at they're really nervous

it's almost disrespectful to not think the guy can handle some adversity, some criticism like he's in the pro he's the highest level of pro hockey if you can't handle some level of we need him to be good we need him to get in there we need him to play a game we need him to stop pucks

then what are we doing here yeah toronto market i i just think he should have had some good practices down there and then just put him in on marley game over 60 minutes and let him clean up some technical things okay I get it you want to build them up between the ears this week should have been sufficient but let's see the technical part he struggled technically are we under the impression that everything that he's battled technically is only because he could not clear his head i've seen some great driving range players who can't take it to the course you know it's some great hands around the practice green and yeah you got to get it into gameplay at some so where do we think that starts going to come

for samsonov if in fact they feel like he's good to go they don't want to play him in the american league because they're worried about what happens if it doesn't go well there and the american league isn't like it's in st john's no it's it's here down the gardener like you think he's got like samsonov's getting an ahl start i'm telling right now there's eyeballs on that baby it's not like it's he's going to baker's field or going somewhere like it's a it's toronto he's not escaping like the eyeballs right there'll be leafs writers at that game like it's gonna be a thing they're gonna have to talk to him after it's not an escape yeah so you mentioned that he won't start against the islanders on thursday no he will certainly not start saturday night against nate correct the nate dog mckinnon yeah no he will not and mccarr and sunday against detroit at home

a game that we'll be doing by the way yes we will on the television that'll be fun right do you that's not you think that's an easy game no i don't but do you back to back you think there's any chance it's not somebody from the Leafs that makes that start? You think they'll be that active in the goalie market? Well, they need a goalie here. Pretty bad. He'll be the best. It's still a possibility.

I feel like they're really, they're huddling hard, as Treliving said yesterday. They're huddling. It's like maybe they're huddling to find somebody else. Yeah. Well, good luck because we've considered all the options and there's no easy answer if i'm gonna tell you right now who i would choose between hill to be and samsonov on sunday night i'm excited 100 hill to be yeah no question it's just too soon he hasn't played in a game he's been skating by himself it's like you're

fixed it's like no well the longer you wait the worse it gets do you want the sheldon keith clip i've not heard it yet on goaltending of uh it was more of a big picture one it's okay we're talking about robertson all right well let's you you want to go decor jb or you want to go uh depth up front well i'll go ahead and say you know i tweeted about nick robertson today so i'll kind of back that up is that all right if we go there absolutely i think it's stupid he's not playing tonight. Stupid. You know, he is, you know, San Jose is kind of this AHL and a half team I joked about,

but they're a bad team. They're the worst team in the NHL. Robertson has struggled getting out of his own end. He spent too much time in that end of the rink. This is not a great team. It's a game where he could play in the O zone more, maybe get a few more looks, maybe get his mojo going, and not even get his mojo going, just contribute offensively. And whether your goal is to use Robertson as a player or to trade him,

in either scenario, you want him to have some good games, right? So a third straight scratch, he wasn't that bad before he got scratched. He'd scored twice two of the three games prior to straight scratch. He wasn't that bad before he got scratched. He'd scored twice, two of the three games prior to the scratch. Apparently there's some sickness going through the crew. So like there's a potential chance he plays because of that. But your point still stands. Yeah. So it's like he's not, they're picking Holmberg over him.

Right. They are picking Holmberg and they're picking McMahon, who you guys know how I like McMahon. But you know, what are we doing with Robertson? If you're going to keep him or trade him, you need to get him going. Holmberg over him. Right. They are picking Holmberg and they're picking McMahon, who you guys know I like McMahon, but what are we doing with Robertson? If you're going to keep him or trade him, you need to get him going. Why don't we listen to Sheldon? We've got a quote on Robertson. First of all, be confident

and feel good about what you've done. He's found ways to produce for us. I think he's shown that he can play in the league. I also don't know that he's really fully separated himself from the pack. And that's kind of the next piece. I've talked to him about the importance of taking care of the puck

and being able to execute plays. He's an offensive guy, so when there's a chance to make a play or a pass or a shot on goal, to me a lot of those plays have sort of slipped off his stick or haven't quite been smooth. And it's sort of disrupted the offense, which leads to more having to defend more. That's what I'd like to see, you know, from Nick. And that's sort of the next stage for him.

But he's fitting well in the spot he has. It's just when we're looking to to get uh someone like home burglar more of an opportunity it's okay where can we where can we make it switch where does it make sense to make a switch okay they've they have invested in him this season he's played 24 games he's scored five goals it's not not horrible here. Are they done kind of proving him a little bit if they want to throw him in on a deal? Is that where Sheldon is? Well, we've got enough of him now

where under different circumstances, he could be a better scorer for you on our team. He's averaging 15 goals. Yeah. Well, that's the sell is that his current pace is a 15 to 20 goal pace he's barely playing with us um imagine what he could do for you you know that would be that would be the sales really good thank you sold vacuums or anything shit don't you hear him like being like we want a guy that plays defense yeah because it's like they gave up so much defensively from this past offseason to what they signed this offseason where it's like

we can't have another offense first guy in the bottom six like we need a guy who's gonna play in his own zone because i see a team sometimes really dependent on four guys that's the whole thing though camper that's i mean that's when they're paying four guys 11 million bucks next year that's the whole plan but they've also paid a lot of money in the past and it hasn't been enough. I know. Oh, I know. I mean, what's the point here then Kip though? Like Nick Robertson playing there in the playoffs.

It's like pick your, you know, pick a side. Yeah. How about that? You know, I think there's a legitimate case to be made for nick robertson that he has been handed a very challenging role play on the third line which we want to play some defense play 10 minutes per game or less and contribute offense you know and don't play on the power play it's really hard to score at five on five in this league let alone when you don't play

very often and you're on the third line playing with, you know. It's a chicken and the egg thing, though. It is. Play better, earn more, for sure. I hate to say this because I haven't felt it all year till now, but, like, I wouldn't hate to see him play a little bit with, say, Mitch Marner or play a little bit with Austin or whatever. Get some run with the

offensive guys just have a look here or at least show another general manager that's like he plays with a really good player he can shoot it in the net yes absolutely give him a chance to play with someone who likes to pass it because he doesn't let him shoot in the net for you but you don't want to you can't break up that second line at all we got a we got a clip from sheldon on uh on pontus holmberg but before we get into that i think i've made it pretty clear i've always liked this guy yeah and for whatever reason sheldon didn't give him a spot they didn't like his camp keep it you say they didn't like his camp there's something that they didn't like no No question about that. Well, the 18-year-old beat him for a job. Right.

Or 19-year-old, the mitten. So that wasn't good. Okay, just take it easy on that because it's all in the eye of the beholder on who beat what. There was something to be said that they probably... Literally. They unprecedented put a rookie kid in the lineup over him.

Yes, they did. They did. For whatever reason, who really knows for sure, maybe they were setting him up to have an asset go to the World Juniors because he wasn't really a lock prior to the terrific camp he had. Could they be setting them up for a potential trade down the road? There's different reasons why, you know, you pump tires up on certain guys. Like, not to take this completely off the rails here, but Mitten did not have a world juniors,

and it was very well noted by a lot of people. He didn't have a good world juniors. No, he did not. He was quite bad. Excuse me? Quite bad. Just kids., he did not. He was quite bad. Excuse me? Quite bad. Just kids. They're just kids.

They're just kids. But he was quite bad. Which usually doesn't happen with like really, really top and blue chip prospects that a guy like Sammy can come on the show and say he was bad. I know you're not saying this, but I do read a guess in here. If, in fact, then they don't have a lot of assets and they really love Matthew Nyes and the guy that he could become, and they love Cowan, right?

Cowan's a future whatever. Who wasn't great at the World Juniors either. Right, but could Minton then be a guy at the deadline that they go, go okay we can turn this into a real player a lot more realistic today than prior to the world junior championships i can tell you that yeah three or four bad games and they're like i'm not sure about this guy i mean i was on record before the season started that i would trade either of them for upgrades at the deadline yeah absolutely now let me ask you this before we get to the Holmberg clip.

We got to go to break soon. Okay. Nobody cares. We'll make that decision. Relax there, producer. I'm telling you. I'm a guest. It's the versus here.

A second rounder in Minton for Chris Tanov and you re-sign Chris Tanov. One more time? Excuse me? One more time? Baking powder. One more time? Excuse me? One more time? Baking powder? One more time? Chris Tanov and Minton for a second rounder.

And a second rounder. Second rounder and Minton for Chris Tanov. I would do that if the Leafs had a second rounder. And you lock in, okay, a third rounder. Done. Third rounder. Sorry. Yeah, you're right.

They don't have a second. Immediately done. Where's Tanov in his career? You know? Yeah, but are you getting Giordano at the end? You know, out of you're right. They don't have a second. Immediately done. Where's Tanev in his career? You know? Yeah, but... Are you getting Giordano at the end, you know, out of him last year? I don't know. I'm...

Listen. This team is good. I'm a lot more excited with Chris Tanev and Morgan Riley to start the playoffs than as it is. Fraser Winton in the minors and a third rounder who could be nothing? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. No, no. No, we'll go to break. Let's go to break could be nothing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. No, no. We'll go to break. Let's go to break. Okay. Sammy called it. Appreciate it. He's the producer.

And then after we're going to welcome in Jason Demers, former NHLer who does terrific work with the NHL network. We'll talk a little San Jose after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Born. Covering the Raptors in depth like no one else. The Raptors show with Will Liu. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Nick Kiprius, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. mckay right back at it let's welcome in jason demers former nhler 700 games wade wick made way too much money to be hanging out with us right now but uh good on you for making time thanks for doing this how are you uh i'm doing great thanks for having me i uh listen i never forget where i came from so no matter how much i made at a boy um how many teams four or five over your career uh the the first one the sharks like what is going on with the san j Sharks? You know, Jason, it almost seems like mid-90s when they shocked the world, beating Detroit in the first round. They never really looked back for the next 15, 20 years. And now we look at the Sharks as if they're a 1991 expansion team

all over again. Yeah, I mean, it's chalking up to they're trying to get out from under and and trying to replace it with youth and they're uh they've made no qualms kind of about the the route they're going to take and rebuilding and they put some pieces in place but i mean i think it's a lot longer than people think and you know it's, it's, it's crazy. Cause when I started, we were, you never think that, I mean, we lost two games in a row and it was like the sky was falling. And now it's,

you know, they're, they're creeping up on another 12 game losing streak. So I know they're frustrated there. I know the guys, I talked to a lot of the guys that are still on that team and, and it's, it's tough sledding for them.

And they're just trying to kind of keep it positive and and find some silver lining here but it's it's tough as a professional athlete to play night in and night out especially with the belief that you're kind of going in to lose and you're kind of lambs to slaughter so i just hope they kind of figure it out a little bit more and and try to go on a run here i i feel like them going on the road right now is probably the best thing and it's a long season they still have you know half left and i think uh the only way out is through so anybody who's played kind of knows that and you just kind of got to put your head down and keep working night in and night out but you know i don't the answers are uh there's too many answers and but it's hard to kind of apply all of them at once so they're trying to take it day by day and minute by minute here you know what's the mindset for a player in that sort of situation i just feel like it's tough

to uh play for the good of the team block the shots and be responsible and all that. When you're, you kind of know you're playing for your next year, right? You're playing for the next team or the next contract. And it's, it's gotta be very easy to kind of think individualistically when you're on a team,

that's just not going to win games. Yeah. And, and the one, you know, I've been part of a team, you know, I was with the coyotes when we kind kind of went on that that big losing streak.

And the one thing I've always learned and I learned throughout my career is somebody's always watching and there's always scouts at every game. Doesn't matter how many games you lose. And, you know, I know plenty of scouts that are watching guys night in and night out. So you are very much playing for your next contract and, and the contract to the guy next to you. So you really do have to check your ego out the door a little bit and, and make sure that every day you're coming to work because it is a job at the end of the day. And no matter if you,

it may seem to them like the sky's falling, but still a privilege to play in the NHL and be there. So you kind of gotta, you gotta make sure you just come in and put your work boots on, because you could say all the cliches you want about, you know, you got to work, but it's the only way to get through this for them.

And like I said, somebody's always watching, especially the management there. And if you want to be a part of their team moving forward, you really have to toe the line, And especially now because, you know, everything's under the microscope for that management team in regards to kind of watching players. We're talking to Jason Demers, former NHLer now doing terrific work with the NHL Network.

You probably know that San Jose market better than most here after going through stretches of 15, 17 years of being a top Western team. How are they handling this? Like, you mean the fans or like the. Yeah. Yeah. The fan base. It's, it's hard.

Cause you know, people, you wouldn't generally associate like a hockey market with San Jose, California, but it is so rabid fan. It's such a rabid fan base. And, and they are some of the best fans in the league, but you can see that, you know, it's, it's kind of wearing on them a little bit. And especially it's hard, you know,

it's hard when you're part of a team that's kind of been in the playoffs and been competitive for so long, not necessarily getting the Stanley cups, but they've been there so many times in the past 10, 10, 15 years. So it's to have this drop-off is pretty tough. And,

and, you know, California and these other kind of nice weather markets, you could kind of say and argue there's other things to do. So, you know, fans will only hang around so long before they spend their hard-earned money, kind of going to see something that's not working. But, you know, fans will only hang around so long before they spend their hard-earned money kind of going to see something that's not working.

But, you know, I've been to a couple games there. I'm about to go do about a two-week stint in studio with them. But I've been to a couple of the games this year in San Jose. And the fans still come and they still support their guys. And you can still see the one thing I'll say about the Sharks team is they are working and they are trying. I don't know if it's system-based or it's just personnel-based, but guys are working their butts off. So it's hard to get mad at them.

I think fans understand and they're smart enough to know what the team is doing and what the organization, the direction they're heading in. So credit to the guys for sticking with it and and at least working hard and and making sure that they're trying to pay attention to details but it's tough coming in night in and night out i've done it once with losing you know 10 12 games in a row and man is it tough especially when you're like out of the playoffs in november because you're these games now or you know it's it's really to your point uh you're playing sort of for yourself and you know for the city you're playing for the fans because you're trying to like I said it's a privilege to play and these people are paying their their their hard-earned money so you got to go out there and give them a show and play for the the city that's

been so welcoming to this team for so long Jason we're in our Leafs hour portion of discussing things right now. And I've seen that you've shared some tweets about the Nylander contract and all that. And so I'll just get your thoughts. It's the big story up here. What were your thoughts when you saw that Willie got 11 and a half times eight? About dang time.

Oh, yeah. What else this guy had to do? I mean, I understand the cap situations, and they're already kind of, you know, now they got like 46, 47 million tied up with four players. So it's tough, but you can't lose a guy like Willie Nylander. I've watched them now for, you you know the past couple months and and really he is their the engine that drives that team I know Matthews is their pure goal scorer

and and he's he's a moose and Marner really does do a lot on the defensive side of the puck as well as setting up teammates and he's a very talented player but Willie Nylander overall is just such a game breaker that you need on your team. And he's I'm a I'm a fan of the signing. I know now they're going to really kind of be an issue to to free up cap space. And I feel like it's like, who's the odd man out now with with the signing? It could be Mitch. But, you know, I kind of lean towards Tavares. But how how they deal with this, I don't know. I know everybody's kind of been clamoring for them to get defense and goaltending,

and that is number one for them. But you had to sign him. I just think he's such a great player. I think he's their best player. He's really coming into his own more and more every year, and he's kind of defying expectations and for a guy like that to come in with with the looming contract talks and and them they've kind of always been playing a game with him in toronto and and for him to kind of block out the noise and

play the way he's played i feel like getting this kind of cloud away from him might just open him up even more and he might be even more dominant and free playing. And, you know, I could be wrong, but I'm a, I'm a big fan of his. And I'm,

like I said, about damn time. So you're, you're 35, right? 35 years of age. Yes, sir.

Okay. So you're the perfect guy to answer this question because there's a sense that according to my good friend here JB that we're in an era now where the players just don't give a crap about team discounts or saving some for the team I think it was Elliot who said that yesterday was it Elliot yeah don't put that on me all right you Elliot mess your hair up a little bit and you know a lot of it you coming out of you know the last few years of of your career was there a sense because you kind of lived through the whole salary cap thing so you know is is there a sense that like nobody cares anymore about that that the players want to

be paid what they're supposed to be paid and you just said it off the top you know you love it about time and yeah we want to see that but like is is that happen now that teams don't waste your breath coming to me with a discount because i know some of you are dumb enough that you'll just blow it on a bad signing anyway so i'll take it myself yeah it's it's it's i don't think so at the end of the day in terms of i think guys are kind of dictating where the market is and listen i'm a i'm still i haven't fully gone management and on the media side yet so i still root for the players to to get one over on on teams all the time and guys getting paid what they're worth but you know you know, with the hard cap and a lot of this, we could have ironed out in the last CBA talks

and if we kind of imposed some sort of luxury tax, and I've seen a lot of people kind of post about it. But, you know, we are where we are, and the CBA signed, and it is what it is. So I think guys are obviously weighing those options. But the way the league's kind of gone in recent years i found what there's there seems to be more turnover and and you're seeing less and less older guys and you're seeing more and more young guys kind of get these longer deals which

what i started was you needed to play six years to get that huge deal and now you know you got to have one or two good years and you're going to get signed to a long-term deal because it's more it looks it's i think it's better for the teams financially to kind of have a young guy tied up for a longer contract and and it's a little bit easier down the line to to trade those guys but i you know i just think that it's i don't think that guys don't care but i think guys are more willing to get what they're worth and what, depending on where the market dictates. And I mean, listen, if a, if a team's going to make a mistake and you know, offer you a contract that might be more than you actually think you're worth.

I mean, do you take it? Do you not not take it that's such a hard question that's such a case-by-case basis you know i played with joe thornton and um i remember him telling me it was like my fourth fifth year he was like listen you can get paid get paid and he's like the rest of the work itself out but he's like if you can you're only play this for a certain amount of time this game and it could be over tomorrow you know willie could go on the ice and something bad could happen and if you can get financial security and and he's like take it but you know obviously now that you've signed that deal you have to earn that money so i think there's added added pressure and stress on a player to do that but you know i don't think guys are sitting we're not all sitting on a group thread being like ah how do we how do we get the most amount of money and screw over these owners we're

just kind of going with where the market dictates us and and taking what we think we we've earned and we deserve and i think a guy like willie i think a guy like willie in the open market would have made more than what he got offered so i think I think he did somewhat take as much of a discount as possible for how he's playing. But, you know, he obviously loves the city and loves the team and to have still stuck around with that organization. And after kind of them playing on his heartstrings a little bit, I just think he just took what he's kind of earned in these past few years.

Jason, I'll pivot a little bit and keep it with the Leafs, but go to a different area of the team. You played over 700 games as an NHL defenseman. Right now, Morgan Riley for the Toronto Maple Leafs is playing 24 and a half minutes per game. I think north of that, he's been super important for them. But what I want to ask you about is, he has zero

penalty minutes halfway through the season what are your thoughts on the ability to defend and play that much and just literally never take a penalty i don't know how he's doing it i don't know if he's coming to deal with the refs but i would act somebody or got frustrated on one shift and taking a roughing penalty but sure he's he's so important to that team i mean he's needed help for years back there and and uh i still think it's so tough now with with the signing is they have to go they still always need to go get d they're always missing yeah they're always missing a demon it feels like and and you know they had some good klingbergs out now and on ltir but he does so much and he's so smooth skating and i think to be a top defenseman on the nhl

you can't you have to manage your body if you're playing 24 to 20 to 30 minutes a night consistently you know you look at like a drew dowdy who when he was younger he kind of really when he was younger and you know we kind, when he was younger and, you know, we kind of came in around the same time he played a lot more physical than he does now. And he kind of realized that like, listen, I can play physical and I might reduce my career by three, four years, but I sometimes have to manage and maybe not run out of position to take a hit and also like not put myself in a position to get hit. So you almost, it's even more impressive because there's such a calculation and, and, and,

and chess playing when you're playing that many minutes. And, you know, I've done it. I played, you know, I had some years where I played more minutes and, and once you start getting into the 20 to 25 range, you really do have to adjust your game a little bit. You can't just be running around and you got to conserve energy and and pick and choose when you go and when you attack and um i mean it's it's impressive that he's never hasn't taken a penalty yet so and and hopefully he takes one a night against my shark and they score on it to finally get out of this slump but i don't know he's he's uh he's a great player. He's so smooth

and I think his defensive side of his games is underrated. All right, Sam, we've got an over-under yet on Morgan Riley taking a penalty. Yeah, it'll happen tonight. Hey, Jason, terrific stuff, man. We really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this.

Hey, thanks, guys. You have a wonderful night. You too. Thanks so much. Jason Demers, former NHLer. 700 games and just one of those solid guys that everybody looks for come trade

deadline. They could use Demers in his prime right hand shot guy. 6'1", a little nasty. The perfect guy. It's so funny. He was just such a steady guy. Whatever team you're Oh, yeah. 6'1", a little nasty. Like the perfect guy. It's so funny. He was just such a, like, steady guy. Whatever team you're on, yeah, yeah, he's a good player. You know?

Boys, you're telling me. He's made 30-some million. You're telling me, like, you know, 45 games in, like someone isn't stepping on Morgan Riley's stick. Well, Matthew just took his first the other day. Looking like you're, come on. It's crazy. Jacob Slavin did this a couple years ago.

I think he went like 60-some games in 20-some minutes. It's not like Morgan's not super engaged. Like, he is engaged, and I think he's been more physical than he's ever been this year. And, like, he looks like he should have had penalty minutes by now. But I think, to Demare's point, that when you're playing that much, you're not running at guys and crushing them or whatever. Like, you're a little bit more, okay, I'm going to play off this guy.

Should I pinch? No, I'm going to back it off. I think it takes you out of those moments. I think Morgan's gotten so much better in the last little while on picking his spots. There's a couple on occasion. Sometimes he's got a habit of when he's in deep, he needs to go behind the net to come back. And that front.

Yeah. Just other than that, I think he's been absolutely terrific. I mean, he's, you can make the case. He's their most important player because the Leafs D without Riley is far worse than their forwards without any one of their big stars.

They could withstand one of the four guys going down for a while. Yeah. Morgan Riley going down for a while. They're like, going down for a while they're like well who steps in there brody mccabe top pair let's roll oof that's it and i don't hey i like both those guys but it's just like this happened in playoffs with muzzin when he was there arguably their most important guy and they said marty didn't have him go ahead play a minute yeah old marty is he still around somewhere get me marty maring i haven't heard that name in a while no we don't you want to do the home break thing we don't have a ton of time i don't care yeah let's listen to sheldon talk about the guy that i pumped up okay well you don't care well you shouldn't play better than that please what's that pontus yeah well i told you

i would have made an offer for him so you love pontus i do but you think you think you should be playing over nick robertson if i'm starting game one of the stanley cup playoffs there's not a chance that uh i play nick robertson over pontus yeah I'm hoping. That's always my vision. I don't care about a Thursday night, a Tuesday night in January. Saturday night in January? Well, it depends on what the alumni is serving. Is it the fish or is it the roast beef? Is it Chianti or is it a nice pork? That's the only thing I care about.

I personally hope that neither Holmberg or Robertson are in the lineup game one of the playoffs because they've improved the bottom six. Well, we didn't play the tree living clip from yesterday. He did have a quote that kind of made me go, oh. Oh, really? And we didn't play it? Well, I'll tell you what he said.

He basically said that you don't remake your team at the trade deadline. You know, you can kind of hope to make tweaks to it. And I went, ugh. Because the Leafs remade their team last year. Essentially six or seven new players. In an hour of our show, from the 4 o'clock to 5 o'clock, it was a whole new team.

It was like, here's O'Reilly and Chen and Achari and Lafferty. Sandeep was gone. Sandeep's got egg balls out. They don't have the assets to And Lafferty. Sandin was gone. Sandin's got egg balls out. They don't have the assets to do that again. He is correct. But we did see yesterday a very significant trade, albeit with a top prospect in Cutter Gauthier. So we're going to get to talk about that in the next hour as we welcome in studio.

Cutter Getje. Yeah. Okay. When I heard about that trade, my first thought was, what kind of name is Cutter? Well, yeah. It sounds like a Bond villain kind of. My first thought was, what did who do? You know, like someone did something.

Yeah. Well, we got Brian Burke in studio after the break. No one's going to want to miss that. And we'll get his thoughts on the Nylander contract because he has been on a bit of a trade him philosophy before the 92 was official. So we'll see if he's okay with it or not. All right. Very interested in that.

The former executive of the Toronto Maple Leafs, general manager, Brian Very interested in that. The former executive of the Toronto Maple Leafs, general manager Brian Burke, in studio after the break. You're watching, you're listening to Real Kipper and Bourne.