Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Can Cowan Stay on the First Line?

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 7-4 win over the Nashville Predators on the back-to-back. They discuss Craig Berube's effective timeout call, Matias Maccelli fitting in with the second line and the team's lack of response to a pair of greasy plays on Easton Cowan. Then, they run through the roster and gauge which Leafs CAN provide that physical response. Later, Sportsnet reporter Luke Fox stops by (30:33) to share his early impressions of the Leafs, why a strong October is crucial, Auston Matthews' healthier look, how long Cowan can hold on to a top-line spot, the blueline's slow start and the different atmosphere around the team.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into the Leaf Hour edition of the Real Kipper and Born show. We are live on SportsSept 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And if you miss our show, you can always catch it on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube, where we like an occasion. additional thumbs up. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo and Jake the Snake Schultz.

This hour real Kipprin Bourne brought to by Bet 365. Matthew scores twice and Sammy gets his all important must win game against the Nashville Predators last night. Yep.

It's all you were looking for. I was the result. I was hoping for, anticipating, and asking for it, and it was, it happened. Not the best night from the Preds. You know, not to take away from the Leeds, who pretty good team in general, I think,

but Preds didn't have their best stuff in a back-to-back. UC Annen, not very good. I know. He hit a bunch of posts, Robertson ripping off the post, Nealander hit a post, it could have been more. Leaves out to the 2-0 lead, and then it vanished, like, in a snap.

A little concerned on that, or did that bother you that much? Because I really thought there was a small window where the Preds could actually gone up 3-2. I think there was a power play that they had a couple of grade A chances. And I just wonder if that philosophy or that small window was a concern for you at all.

You know how it is. Like they always say they didn't play 60 minutes or whatever, but they're the better team for 50 minutes pretty handily. I'm not going to say you enjoy being bad for 10 of them, but... Okay, let's get Craig Bruby's overview of the game last night. Yeah, I thought we came out and played a real... I thought a good first period, you know, doing things right and got the lead. I thought the second period, you know, obviously when a team is down,

they come out there a little more intense, and I called the time out, just our intensity level wasn't where it needed to be. But the guys responded, so it was good. But overall, it was a pretty good game, a lot of good things, back-to-back games. But, you know, there was a lot of good to like in the game. And there's obviously stuff that we've got to be better at. You know, we've got to keep trying to improve and improve in some areas, but pretty happy with the game. You have an overall takeaway?

I really liked this timeout, and I thought it was really necessary. And I thought he gave it to them on the bench. I thought it was a good move. Yeah, for sure. That's great. I like to see that proactive. You know, you don't need to save that time out for the final 30 seconds.

It's kind of slipping away. Time to get your heads back in it. That was really good. You know, by and large, I think the Leafs, there's a lot of encouraging things here. I know it's very early, but I know Primo's numbers didn't end up great, but it's his first game of the year.

He didn't get a preseason game. Anything he was fine enough. Cowan in his second game, still look pretty good to me. And then I wrote an article today. It's up on sportsnet.com. We had the conversation yesterday about where the offense is going to come from.

I think there's some hope in some of these guys. I know Machelli has one point, but I've liked him. Like he set up Nylander who at the post, he had a Benoit who missed the net. It's hard not to notice how skilled he is. Yeah, he can make plays. He can make plays for sure.

And there's risk reward to some of those plays. It can be a turnover as well. But, yeah, You see how he once upon a time ended up with 50, 60 points in Utah. I am worried that because the offense hasn't come for him statistically, that they'll be like, I don't want him to become a whipping boy. He's already down to 12 minutes a night, you know, four games into the season. Like, this is a guy you need.

You need to develop chemistry and give it time to breathe while these guys figure themselves out in the system with the new coach. Um, if we want to kind of zoom in on the Machelli part of it, uh, he was asked after the game about Machelli fitting in on the second line. So we can play that clip there, please, uh, clip six, please, Derek. Well, he's a playmaker, right? And he sees the ice well. And I think with Willie and J.T. Anytime we can get some pucks and make some place, those guys, that's a good thing because they need to puck. They need to puck on the rush.

They need to puck in the offensive zone. He sees the ice well. Uh, that's a big thing for me. And by far, the best goal we've seen scored either training camp or regular season was Tavares finishing off the goal that once again gave them the lead, that tic-tac-toe with Oliver Ekman Larson with the given go. But Mitelli started that play, if I'm not mistaken. And that's the puck movement that you want to see out of these guys. Yeah. Yeah, no, there were some bright spots offensively.

I'd argue that the Matthews, Nyes, Matthews, Cowan in the Neutra Zone is pretty nice too. So some better puck movement out of a lot of guys last night. You know, part of this offensive article I wrote is some things. There's like five things I think they kind of need to happen for this team to score goals at the rate of last year. One of them is McMahon not getting punted to the fourth line every time he is imperfect. Power play. Did you like it anymore last night? Not really.

No, like Robertson ripped one off the inside of the post. They had a couple of scrambles. Oh, Riley missed the one. He shot it back through the crease the other way. There was, I actually think it was harder to miss than it was to shoot in the net. Like, it was harder to miss there, for sure. Which, it would have been nice for them to get off the Schneide with the power play there, but they couldn't, they couldn't tap one.

I'm sure savvy would have been like, can you just shoot that in the net for me? But, yeah. But I do think that plan for scoring the power play is going to be much more screens, tips and rebounds than tick, tick, tick, tick, back door. Yeah. So I think one of the things we can talk about out of the game last night is the Cowan thing is because, you know how we talked about

it being, him getting asked about him not playing for those first couple games and then that he's gone in to play it's kind of turned to be a circus the other way where he gets the belt after the game last night he's doing the interview with Ryan Leslie after the game last night like he's, it's like happening. But that's what, that's what Toronto does.

That's what I get. We do sportsnet, TSN, you name it. I understand that. They just like suck the blood out of anything that they can. Yeah, those craving people at Sportsnet. We never do anything like that. Oh, we just tell it like it is. I do worry about that where like he's had two really good games.

Where it's like I think he's been excellent in both the games he played in, set up a goal with first career assist last night. But does that make him now a bonafide? number one player on a on a contending team's line yeah you know what's funny is i have very strong memories and this is not because i'm saying he's him but when nick robertson played in playoffs against columbus at 19 years old 18 or 19 he must it feels like he was 14 at that time i'm thinking i like did some screenshots of him like letting checks go and some stuff and was like hey maybe he's not quite ready and people were like what are you doing you know this kid's off to a great start

they're a top prospect he got to let him develop all this stuff and it's like okay and maybe he'll get there but maybe five years later he'll be nick robertson and they're still not sure if he's in the lineup and so for cowen i also want to pump the brace not that he's robertson he's better than robertson but i do think it's worth noting some miscues defensively some you know battles physically he's it's just a process that's all and so be happy to have a guy who can make plays who's probably not going to be there this year the way you want him to be there but he's great but there's no avoiding it because you know it's almost like the perfect storm that they lose marner they don't replace him and then he comes along

and everybody just wants to put him in a position now to run shotgun with austin and they've been the coach did not i know he has no choice that's what i mean he has no choice but like austin and nyes kind of had rough first games they did whatever and so they like turned it up and they've had a couple really good outings and Cowan has made some nice plays or whatever but people are like after the third game Cowan's when he's on the ice shot attempts are 12-1

for the least like it's not guys like Cowan it's probably because of the two huge guys who are flying out there with the art trophy and the other monster pretty good too. All right let's go to the coach on Cowan did we play this yet? No we have not two clips we have two clips we have good I think oh go ahead sir here Clips sit

Bluebe on Cowan yeah clip five well I think he's really supports the puck while with those guys that makes a lot of little plays that maybe go on notice to a lot of people, but I notice it. And, you know, he's a dog on a bone out there for me.

He hounds everything, gets puck's back, strips people. He's played well. He played well again tonight, back-to-back nights. You know, I wasn't sure, but I thought he had another good game, so it's good to see. And it seems like that line's forming some chemistry with him. he's a worker he's a worker and you know that worker with skill he's got an engine on him

and it's yeah it's london nights man it's dale hunter no it's being a farm boy come on what what nothing he's got to bring up the london nights oh is this new marner no i don't think he's an engine he drives the play he can new margner just that's great i'm on with this one you drop you You dropped Marner. I didn't say anything about Marner. I just think it's funny that there's literally a photo of him in a Leif's jersey looking on the ice at Mitch Marner wearing a leash jersey. And now he's just replaced him.

Yeah. Can I remind you who won the championship? Oh, I didn't know. I didn't check on that. Hey, you know who had the... I guess one day I'm going to... There's got to be an Owen Sound reference to a Leaf one day. Yeah, Harry Nanzi, fifth round pit.

Isn't this draft of Sam McKee from Owen's up? He doesn't play for them anymore. Oh, that's too bad. Well, and they had, who's the kid they traded to Utah, Dersey. Thursday was a least picked too. So the other thing I'll flip this on with the Cowan thing because I just wanted to be, you know, do the temper the expectations thing.

The next thing is that I think it's easier to fit in as a skill rookie in 2025 than it is in 2005. You know? Like I think the game is more, less physical, nasty, cheap, greasy, you can play. Lane Hudson can show up and be awesome. You know, young, smaller players can contribute when they're very good. And so I think Cowan has a chance to contribute.

But staying all season in a top line? I think staying all season is much more viable after seeing what he's done the last two days. See, it's not even close for me against what essentially is what you told me was a horrible team in Detroit and then Nashville the team might be better than I thought initially like it's just not enough of a sample size for me

and it's going to be tough at times he's going to wear down it's going to catch up to him physically emotionally they've got to be able to move other people up there and hold water while he catches his breath I don't see a scenario where this kids just doesn't move off this line

all season long. No, I agree. But that happens with every line, right? And so this is kind of the idea with an 82 game season. No one really, they don't keep them the same for the whole year. Yeah. So there's going to be other looks for him. Sheldon Keefe did. Sheldon Keefe did by and large.

Except Sheldon Keefe, the top two lines. Can I ask you about what we saw sort of the physicality stuff against him? Like when you were playing, for example, If you saw a kid that looked like as, is there anyone ever looked younger than Easton Cowan? I think Easton County looks younger than Lane Hudson. He looks like the youngest man on earth.

Yeah, he's still physically, mentally, emotionally, he's still immature. So then that feels like a bit of a green light for, like last night he was Green Light City. Like that Weasblatt nailed him into the post. What's his name when after him? Can we talk about that? Sure. What I hated last night Was that brat Ozzy on that Nashville team

Ozzy Wheezeblatt? Yeah. Wise Blatt? He throws your young grade A prospect, your prize possession, your future into the net and you do nothing about it.

Tell me the difference between that play and Brad Marchand on Lilligrin where they did nothing in Boston. Tell me the difference. I would argue that that's not nothing. It's not something either. I mean, it's not nothing. He addressed him.

Don't embarrass yourself, please. Listen, buddy, you're saying it's nothing. Who, who? Nothing was last year when Jack Hughes got. As an hour, I would say who addressed it. Tenev. I mean, listen, I'm not going to. Tenev's 36, 38 years old.

I don't know how old he is. He's closer to 40 than he is 30. That's your guy to go address that rat. He's the closest guy. Yeah, I think. I think we know what, I think we know what we're getting out of here. So in that instance, no, no, in that instance, okay, nothing happens. And the rest of the game, you don't say a word to this guy for throwing cow into the net

and could have broke his neck, not a word, nobody says nothing to this guy. Please, enlighten me. I agree. No, I agree with you, totally. But I don't think they did nothing. Like, I think he went over there and he skated and he hit him into the glass. It wasn't great. But, okay, then I don't want.

It wasn't great. I want a response. You want all the gloves to come flying off there? I want something. There's definitely a level beyond a tent. Sure. But this was supposed to change. This is part of the DNA change.

Totally. You get, you know, you went out and got a bigger Nick Waugh. This is where you got Dakota. Yeah. Okay. So Dakota's out there five minutes later against them. You don't want to go and say anything to them? The Leafs have like.

Isn't this supposed to change? a little bit. The least have a track record of getting the biggest guys who don't want to fight at all. Like, Justin Hall was giant. He's never going to do that. It's just like a long, Pierre Engval monster, never going to happen.

I don't think. Can we bother me? Can we run that play again? bothers me too. They run the Weesblatt play or Wiseblatt play. I don't think, did Nyes? Because the one that I would love to see would be nice, because we've actually seen him chuck them.

But like, I don't think. And Matthews. Matthews is on the ice too. Yeah, but I mean, if we're going to sit here and get bent out of shape about Austin Matthews not responding physically. How about Jake McCabe, grab him first? If we're going to sit here and have that conversation, we can have that conversation every day for the last eight years. We all hate it. And how are the results been the last eight years?

Yeah, we know. We know, Kipper, but it's just never going to happen. Okay, so we shouldn't talk about it, right? We should just not talk about it every day if you want. That's only too easy. No, that's not every day. It is. That's not every day.

But we've, that's not every day. That is your young grade A prospect getting thrown into the net. Okay, viciously dirty play. What I'm saying every day is Kipper, we could have the conversation about him not being physical or seemingly angry or whatever. We could have had that conversation every single show for our whole time we've been doing this.

I'm not talking about that specifically. Somebody should have jumped in there. I'm just saying that I don't think Nyes saw it happen. He had his back to the play who was turning up the other way, which is another conversation. But that's the guy I would love to seek it in there. Because that's a guy where you've actually seen...

Why can't Chris Tannen it? Well, he did. He just didn't drop his gloves. Chris didn't even look at it. I don't want Chris doing that. You don't, but you want Austin Matthews doing. No, I want somebody to say something to this guy. Get a glove in his face.

You don't have to fight him. You can punch him in the head. You can cause that big pile up. Listen, I am with you on this. Me too. I just thought that part was supposed to change a little bit. Yeah. That's all.

And it's not even that moment, Sam. It's the rest of the game as if nothing happened. well and also did philip forsver agree someone yeah he did was it cowen again it was cowen got him hard and then matthews came in a little bit and kind of push him against the one thing that is disappointing for their start it just seems like it's there's not that much emotion or there's they're just there's just look like guys going to work yeah i think it's a fair criticism and that this has been the teams a lot of people have argued they're shortcoming they're now as big as you can possibly be in the

NHL and it's still not talking about the DNA. The DNA is not actually different because Joshua is similar. Big doesn't actually want to do it. Waugh doesn't want to do it. Can I ask you, is it opponent dependent in terms

of some of these games? Like when we see them against a team that likes to play more like that, potentially a Bruins. Potentially a panthers. I'll tell you the way it works. Okay. When you go after a guy like Ozzy, what's his name? Wiesblat. WiseBat. Okay, you send a message,

but you're also sending a message to the rest of the league. This guy is not to be thrown into the net and potentially breaking his neck. Okay, you don't get a freebie on our prize rookie. Agree. And it's not for Nashville. It's for anyone else that's watching that night. And you assume everybody's watching.

That's the way. you send a message so it's not opponent dependent it's every opponent watching going uh-uh not on my watch like i'm not i'm just telling you that i would rather be suspended two games than to finish that game without saying a word to that kid i'll take a suspension i've been fined 25 40 thousand dollars in the mid-90s and it's the best $40,000 I ever spent because it told my teammates and it told the management and the coaches that I at least when I'm on there I'm not going to I'm going to try to do something about it so quick game here we're going to go through the roster and we're going to talk about who can do it who should do it who wants to do it okay top line you have Cowan matthews

nice anyone want to mention it nice nice nice can do it nice can do it should he Why not? Why not? Well, just because you don't want a guy with concussions getting punched in the head. But does that mean never? He's never going to do it? No, it doesn't. But it also doesn't mean he's going to do it 10 times.

You may only have to do it twice a year, three times a year. Pick your spot. Yep. That would have been a good spot. Machelli Tavares Nylander. No, no, no, no. Next line. Robertson Domi McMahon.

Max could do it. Max probably would. would have done it probably would have done something that's 100% he's one of the only guys he definitely would have done something yes uh bobby mcman doesn't want to do it can do it probably should do it uh i'd like to see him i'd like to see more of it yarn crock wah joshua two out of three i'll go with wah and and uh and joshua on the back end carlo riley carlo no yeah i don't know i mean but you want him to he's a defensive defense of It wouldn't hurt, but he won't.

Tanev, McCabe. Not Tanev. McCabe. I don't know. I don't get why not Tannaf. I know he's not a physical guy. He's just, listen, Tanev is arguably one of their best players last year.

To me, he already looks a little worn down, tired, I don't know. See the goal that they tied the game up where he lost the battle? That never happens. Ever. Yeah. Ever. Ever. Benoit, Echman Larson.

Both. Benoit. Benoit. Then Larsson's greasy. So going through the whole team, we just came up with Benoit McCabe, Joshua Waugh, nice. Yeah. Okay. Like Joshua Dakota, he plays 10, 11 minutes?

Yeah. Okay. Nice to see him get on the board for an assist. Like, where's his identity? What is it? That's the question. Where is his identity? What does he think his identity is?

For 10, 11 minutes, what are you trying to do in 10 or 11 minutes? kill a penalty, score, goal, like what? Well, he's getting paid $3.25 million, and guys who hit and fight and play 10 minutes don't make that. They make $750. So he thinks and is probably told that he's going to be a point producer, player. Not at 10, 11 minutes.

Not a 10, 11 minutes. No, definitely not. So maybe the coach has his ice time wrong or maybe not the best? I am the first one to say I was so wrong on Max Patcheretti last year. I thought that guy was coming here, soak up the media, the attention, being a leaf, and then going to fade off. I tipped my hat to Max Patcheretti because when I watched him play, whatever he could give, he could give. When that guy hit, he hurt people last year. Buddy, who is Jack?

Jack, you. It blew my mind to watch Max Patcheretti hit, to hurt. I'm surprised he's not in the league. You watched him in playoffs last year. Scores a big goal, trucked a bunch of guys. Works for U of M now, Michigan. That's, body just didn't want to do it. Yep.

I'd like to see Max back hitting like that again. But they chose not to. They went younger. I get it. But Dakota can't hit like that. Kenny, or if he can, he just hasn't shown us yet. He's 29 years old. It's not coming now.

Like he is, I think they thought he could play more minutes. So, like, it's, that, that physicality is just not there for this big team right now. I don't, I don't see,

I don't see, like, heavy kind of leaning in towards guys. That, to me, like, Joshua's got to get going here. Like,

they're, they're a very strong, team like i mean matthews is a strong guy on the puck winning pox in corners same with taveras these guys are they have a lot of these guys that are strong players but to your point they're not aggressive players yeah my my the sort of final thought on that is what i was getting it with cowen is watching him get bounced around by you know checks my notes here the nashville predators last night you're going to get into games where you're playing bigger and tougher and better opponents where they're going to be taking way more runs at them

and they're going to need to protect him a bit and it's going to fall on the decor who's out there and it's going to fall on Nyes because we could say Matt Matthew's he'll skate over there but he's just not going to get the gloves off and punch like I don't think that's ever going to happen but Nyes can do it.

They're going to have to protect him if he's playing on that top line he's going to play against good players who were hitting them and leaning on them and they were doing it last night so it's going to be a little old school protector situation bring me Pesetta. I'm so disappointed in Peseta's camp. He played in a lot of fourth line of the Marley's it's it's four games here's here's what I truly feel that it may take

15 or 20 games for this team to find itself totally I totally agree that it's not sure not six yeah not eight a court we we may have to go and well into Thanksgiving to really see this team and and where they think their strengths yeah are you know why I was so disappointed in the way that Detroit game ended and they tied it up at two two is when you come back in games early in the season you get a win or you just get good energy out of that it's like okay we're building something as a team we're finding our way we're piecing it together that was such a disappointing outcome because I do think that there's going to be some time be like okay we're not what we used to be we are now a team that relies on depth no team a team A team B we're going to be this whole

cohesive thing and they don't know how to do that yet and now They were great against Nashville. This is not criticism of that game. But I do think that it looks very disjointed still and that there's going to be some process to getting to what they're going to be. Rangers Thursday, Cracken Saturday, I believe. See, the Rangers haven't scored a goal yet.

Well, at home. They scored on the road, but not at home. Yeah, listen, they're coming in foaming right now. Mad. Oh, here's my other thing. The Leafs should be as good a defensive team as the league has. that six veteran D that none of them are a bunch of old dogs they should be as good a decor defensively as exists

yes but I think part of the problem is they lack like 2025 mobility they don't snap it they don't move they can they can do straight lines so you've got them as not tough and immobile they can block shots yeah I just don't have that same type of

mobility. Even the veterans on this team, though, have been through playoff series. Now, make all the jokes you want. They've played nine straight years in the postseason, multiple rounds twice. Like, they should have some idea how to defend. So while they're sorting everything else out, this team should be good defensively. I give them zero passes defensively. How's Carlo been for you to start the year? Not enough. And I don't see it early with Morgan, which is a bit of concern because we've had a lot of conversations over the last few years

about Morgan and a partner. I just, I can't help but think about what they traded for them. And I don't think that helps his perception amongst Leaf fans. That you just, you worry about that. I don't know, Sam, if you have Fraser Minton right now. I know, I know, I'm just, and you have Ben-Meyers. What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, for sure, I totally agree. But what I'm saying is, is that his style of play isn't one where you're seeing

returns on investment. where it's not like oh wow his production's unbelievable like oh wow what a breakout pass it's like he's denying entries and getting in lanes it's like oh great can't wait to watch that highlight tape later right just uh i don't we we briefly talked about primo in that last night but we didn't get a a brooby comment did we we can play it all right uh on caden clip two please ruby got got his first win here you know congrats to him and you know he did what he had to do to get the job

done. Didn't sound too thrilled. I don't really. Here's what I would say about being premium. One of the goleys of all time. He is a goalie. One of the goalies of all time. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

So you could just say that time. That's what I know about. Is he sticking around here? Or is it next man up? I actually, I didn't know whether or not they felt like he was ready. to start yesterday, I actually thought that I wouldn't have been shocked if I saw

Hildaby in that. You got to get him going at some point. Let him lose a match before we cut him here. You know, like to see him get a few games. He's a backup goalie. Look like a guy that starts in the second half a match. Should this be a bigger concern for everybody that

like Joseph Wall still nowhere to be found and no light right now at the end of that tunnel? Yeah, those are separate conversations for me. Like, can Primo be a backup goalie for the Leafs? I think so. I think he's better than he played last night.

I do believe in Primo. The Joseph Woll thing, last night it occurred to me while I was watching the game. I was like, it's strange they haven't provided an update. No. Like... What was that? Well, maybe two weeks ago or a week ago where Trillian's like,

we don't know, but it's progressing well. What's progressing? Correct. But I think you're kind of at the point here. I want him to be more aggressive. by the way. For sure. Push out of his net harder.

What a go there, Valley. You brought that break down. But a couple of times he just sits back deep and relies on his size and you want to see him challenge more. You just got to find a way to accumulate points when Anthony Stollars isn't in the net and they got two points for the first time

without him in the net. And I think you're just kind of... Does Valley say you need 20 or something like that? It's kind of what you're looking for. You got two out of the way. We should break. We can get the Luke. And we'll do game time after Luke.

All right. After the break, we'll welcome in our very own Sportsnet.com, Luke Fox. More on the Leafs when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Hey, it's Aylish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day

and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan free game. 6 p.m. weekdays on Sports stats, Sportsnet 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. As a reminder, this hour of Real Kippoor and Born brought to you by Bet 365. Nick Kippreel is Justin Bourin. Sammy McKee.

In a few minutes, we'll welcome in, Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.com. Now we're going to welcome him now, now. Luke, all in on the Blue Jays tonight with his cap. For those of you that cannot see him on Zoom, how are you, Luke? I'm doing well. Excited for a day off, excited for the Jays to come back in this series.

Yeah. What do you think? Let's be honest here. you know like a split a split okay like worst case scenario a split or there's three yeah no they need to take two if they take two or three it gives us life i don't know i think the mariners are a better team but sports anything can happen you got a you got to hope it's all you can do all right um sammy called it a must win last night against nashville game four game four

Game four must win. The boys came through. At times it wasn't the prettiest, but what did you get out of last night? Yeah, I think there's positives there for sure. I think one of the things I got out of it is the Nashville Predators aren't very good guys. And I don't think any of the teams involved in the four games

I've watched live here, the Leafs, the Red Wings, the Habs, the Preds. No one's really impressed. So hopefully that's just early season, guys figuring out chemistry with new line mates, you know, goalies getting in the groove. But the level of hockey hasn't been there. And maybe that's partly me because the last hockey I watched was the Stanley Cup final. And it really feels like it's just a continuation of preseason so far.

But my main opinion through these three games with the Leafs is they got to rack up points. They have a really soft schedule in terms of a bunch of non-playoff teams that they got in October and early November. They got a bunch of home games. You know, I know that they're still figuring stuff out. Every line almost seems to be in flux. But this is a veteran group. You have home ice advantage. Start stacking points because I think they're going to be harder to come by down the road.

Luke, it's funny, we just did the first half hour of the show. and I don't know that we hit on this directly and that I wrote an article today and I don't know if I hit on it directly. We haven't really talked about the best players on the team and the team's only going to go as Matthews goes, as Neelander goes, as Tavares goes. What are your thoughts on the first four games

out of the team's most important players? Well, I thought William Neelander and Austin Matthews both had their best game last night, which is a positive sign. I think Neelander in particular got off to a slow start. I think Tavaris has gotten, off to a slow start. Matthews seems to be ramping up, which is good.

The shot looks there. You know, when you mention those guys, it's hard not to think about the power play, which is 0 for eight and lacks cohesion. And you wonder if that's just a lack of urgency because, you know, they're going to get a minute 45 or if it's a personnel thing and they need to make an adjustment. But I think it's at least trending in the right direction. direction. The good news is, you know, they got some cookies. So Matthews and Neelander have five goals combined. Four of them are into an empty net, which is crazy to say that they've only beaten one goalie. And Matthew's, the time you beat the goal, it was basically a tap-in from Matthew Nyes last night. That's technically an empty net goal. Yeah, yeah. So we haven't seen like them look really dangerous. But at least when they look at their score sheet, they see some numbers. They're probably feeling a little bit good about themselves.

and hopefully they can get going. You know, just on that point. And it's great. You know, on a stat sheet, you see Matthews with three goals and four games. It looks good. It feels like it's right up there with a guy that can threaten to score 50 or 60 goals. But, you know, how far off is he from looking like the shooter that he was when he was scoring 50 and 60 goals?

Because a couple of opportunities where, you know, in his prime, he could beat goalies from 20, 30 feet out. And we haven't seen that look yet. He has yet to still beat a goalie clean with that amazing shot at his. How close is he to you to getting back to that guy? He's closer than he was last year. But I agree with you, Nick.

We're not 69 goals, Matthews, dangerous yet. We're not Rocket Richard Winner Matthews yet. Now there were some flashes. He pinged a crossbar in Detroit where I thought he was going to break the iron and it was from distance and it wasn't the one-timer. It was the

snapper, wrister release that he's known for. And he's had a couple other shots like that, you know, come close. His aim seems to be a little off. He's not getting as much open space as he did with Mitch Marner. and you think maybe with time

hopefully he's going to get more looks but he looks a lot better than last year but is he back to Rocket Richard Matthews that we've seen at his peak not yet. No it still strides to go but certainly encouraging as far as that goes and so what are your thoughts on how long Easton Cowan is going to get to hold down that spot

I know everyone's asking about him and we talked about him have you felt anything differently than us which was basically just that made some good small area plays, and they kind of don't have a ton of options. Yeah, I think it's a little bit by default, right? You know, it's kind of interesting the fact that Domi or Micelli didn't get a longer trial run up there. But in the two games that Easton's been up there,

he has looked like the best fit available. Does that mean he's a top six NHLer or top line NHLer? No, let's not jump to conclusions. but of the guys that have gotten a look that Matthew Nyes and Austin Matthews have had their best games beside him the kid has made some plays he has earned the coach's trust

and he has a motor on him you know the first test was playing back-to-back days he passed that with flying colors I want to wait and see this team play a contender and then see how he looks before I make any judgments and you know in the meantime they have some injuries you know, Stephen Lawrence could come back Thursday,

but Scott Lawton isn't close. So, you know, give the kids some runway, and then the first real decision you have to make is after he plays nine games. You're watching and listening to Luke Fox from Sportsnet.ca in our Leaf Edition hour, Justin just asked you about the Leafs top players up front, the back end,

certainly a veteran squad that the attention, the detail was pretty darn good last year. Where do you see them this year? You know, Tanaf gave up a play behind the net that led to the 2-2 goal, which I can't recall ever see him, you know, lose a battle like that. It's a one-off. I get all of that. But overall, where do you see this blue line and where do you see a pairing, say, like Morgan Riley and Carlo?

They've struggled in their own. and I think Nick, Riley, and Carlo. I think they have another level to get to. I think there's signs of encouragement, the fact that Broube has asked these guys specifically to jump up in the rush more than they did last year. I think when the coach first came in, he really prioritized defense, safety, holding on to leads.

Then Mitch Marter walks out the door and they realized we got to supplant some of this offense from the back end. You know, hopefully Bobby McMahon gets the 20 goals again. Hopefully Kelly Yarncraw can get 15 or 20. But that still won't be enough. We were one of the worst teams at generating goals from the back end. So he's encouraged Riley to jump up in the play.

I think last night, Oliver Ackman-Larsen had his best game of the four. Without question, he ends up with three points, shows some flashes. McCabe gets a goal. I'm putting that one on the Predators' backup. But at least these guys are contributing to the offense. And I think they're still maybe figuring out that balance. And one thing they can do, Nick, is block shots. They gave Kaden Primo a chance to win that game because they blocked 20 shots.

Primo was not great. Like, let's be honest. But the defense protected them pretty good. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the cool things about being a beat reporter is like just without asking questions, taking the temperature of the team, feeling the dynamic. you're in the room, you're around the guys. Does this year with a new DNA, yes?

I was just going to say, cool and beat reporter don't go together. Oh, is that right? Okay. He used to. These guys used to crush beers with the guys after games. Just kidding, Luke. How does it feel this year compared to last year and previous years? It feels more relaxed.

Yeah. It does. Yeah. There's a calmness. You know, Keith Pelly came out at the, it was at the press conference after he had fired. and he made some comments about you know the team needs to rebuild the connection with the media and with the fans and basically rebuilding with the

fans is partially through media and through access and the access has widened you know if I asked for a one-on-one with a guy during training camp ten times out of ten or nine times out of ten I'd say I would get it the and the guys feel a little bit more relaxed there's more after a morning skate just sitting in the stall, willing to shoot the breeze with you. So I would say the mood is very much relaxed. There hasn't been panic. And I almost wonder if they need to be a little bit less relaxed in terms of, you know,

their level of play. On the bright side, there have been comments. I'll say Stolars, Nyes and Morgan Riley have come out and said, you know, we haven't really been good enough and kind of really underscored that they need to be better. So at least they're recognizing that. The other thing I would say about the reporting thing is it was interesting to hear Domi and Austin Matthews voluntarily owned that they took bad penalties. And I don't remember that happening a lot in the past two years. So I don't know if they've been told, hey, you've got to take a little bit more responsibility when the camera's on you

or if they just feel like they need to. Either way, I think it's a good sign. Look, great stuff as always, man. Enjoy the ball game. Enjoy your night off. And we'll We'll catch up to you again real soon. All right, go Jay's. Thanks for having me on, guys. Thanks, Luke. Sportsnet.com. Hey, tell me a little bit about when you were a player and the relationship with reporters.

Because, like, I know in my dad's day when they were playing, like legitimately cooler in the room, reporters sitting there having beer as you're talking to the guys, they'd come out after. So they would, you know, have your back sometimes. But at the same time, they could actually report on the temperature of how guys were feeling. Everybody had, if, if,

If there was, you know, half a dozen guys in there covering your team, you can go down the room and you could get a different answer on who you liked as a reporter. Yeah, for someone to your taste. Everybody has different relationships with different guys. Yeah. And some you learn more about them as the season progresses. And then you have a comfort zone or you have an antenna up and everybody can have a different opinion of any particular. writer but their jobs to get you to say stuff that's their job and of course it's easier now because the leaps are more open we've seen that there's proof of it Luke just mentioned it

and then there's a trust factor that what I say will go on record or not on record and it only takes one guy to burn one guy once that was the big thing that I'm always told was that there used to be true this is on the record this is off the record yeah you could have those Yeah, like, I think it exists. But I don't know the players trust that it exists and will be honored in the same way. Yeah, yeah, it's just, it's just who you're comfortable with and who you trust. So sometimes you can pick things up and, you know, there's a gray area. Was that on the record, off the record?

I think it's, I think it's important for a writer to say, hey, listen, I'm going to print this before I print it. give a guy a chance to A critique or something, yeah Well, I don't know Maybe it's again a gray area Did you mean to be on record on it Or did you not? Right, yeah, yeah

So, but interesting times for sure And now there's the internet too So Van lists and logger That changed the whole dynamics of everything It's game time Presented by Bet365 Visit the App for latest odds

And see why it's never ordinary At Bed 365 It's 19 plus Ontario only Please play responsibly So two things I'm looking at For tonight Like I said before Ottawa in Buffalo

tonight on Wednesday night hockey it's been pretty painful for Buffalo Sabers fans and they're actually favored tonight so betting on the Buffalo Sabers at 0.13 is a favorite is probably Yeah. I'm going to go the other way.

I'm going to go the other way for extreme pain. Give me a Dylan Cousins goal tonight for the Buffalo Sabers. God, that's so obvious. Sorry, for the Ottawa Senators against the Buffalo Sabers at plus 240. so a little bit of revenge there. Sorry, Buffalo, but when it goes bad, it goes really bad,

and I can see that happening tonight. And the Jays and Mariners tonight, big game. I'm getting progressively more nervous as the day moves along here. The Jays are plus 110 underdogs against the Seattle Mariners. Mariners minus 130 on the money line. Honestly, not an awful spot for a happiness hedge tonight. The season really comes down to this. Can I read you the Ben Nicholson Smith latest to tweet?

It's why this game matters so much tonight. Teams that take a 3-0 lead in the best seven series have gone on to win 97.6% of the time. However, teams that trail 2-1 after three games in a seven-game series have gone on to win 30% of the time. 30. And they got home field the end of the series, you know? Listen, put it this way.

If you go down, if you win, lose tonight and you go down 3-0 and then you come back and win, there'll be 78 documentaries about it. Like, there is about the Boston Red Sox. Like, hey, can we come up with the? a different idea for like yeah we know we've seen every version of it there's a hundred you got to set the stage for the comeback anyways so yeah

just get to two one just listen even if you get to two one night go to three one it still feels different than it was if you're down three zip so win tonight see what happens go jays go that was game time presented by bet three six five visit the at flattest odds and see why it's never ordinary at bet three six five must be 19 plus and taria only

please play responsibly okay all right so tonight So just to pick up a little bit on Luke talking about the blue line, did you end up watching Prime Amazon? No shot. No shot? I gave you homework.

Can I be totally honest with you? Yeah. It's too painful for you? I turned it on. I'm like, I spend all day talking about this. I talk about this every day. I think about this every day. I got one second to do it.

I'm like, I turned it off. I'm like, I'm not doing this. for sure did you watch it yeah you did yeah it's less painful it was actually a great refresher to be like oh god

they were up 3 1 game 3 and up 2 nothing in the series thank you for validating my point good sir well and a lot of it is like man they were they're down in the series they win game 6 in Florida no no no no no no

their most impressive performance in the Matthews area no question so they get humiliated ultimately in game 5 or game 7 yeah but watching it reminded me that when Max Domi scored in game seven

there was 18 minutes to go and they were down 3-1 And that place erupted And it erupted And I'm wondering now If Barubi would have taken Joseph Wall out

and put Stolars back in what difference it would have made was stolen was the backup then yes he was he was available as the backup yes are you sure i'm almost positive i thought he was concussed why wouldn't he been starting if he was a no he backed up he did he was cleared to back up see this is i trauma block this i don't really remember i don't really remember it yeah joseph wall gave up the fourth goal muffin muffin short side to loose terrain and I'm just that's what I got out of it just that's what I got of Amazon but you know what it is a fresh reminder or it was a fresh reminder of is how the Leafs find

new and creative ways to hurt their fans because game six was like this was a team that faced adversity went into the defending cup champions house with the chance to be eliminated and won and it was like this is the year that they figured it out unbelievable performance by them what are the Panthers had that game 14 shots and And they just shut it down. And game seven at home, Florida outshot attempted them 25 to zero before the Leafs got an attempt on that. And if you'll remember correctly, Mitch Marner set up Austin Matthews for the game winning goal in game six. And we're like, they flipped the school.

It's happened. And then they come home. Bang, bang. Turn next. So you watch any meaningful game in darkness in your base. in your basement that you won't watch Amazon. I watched them run. Herder documentary and said it was much more uplifting.

Dark basement night tonight. Go J's Go. Yeah. Get chewing your towels. Get your popcorn ready. Game three ALCS on Sportsnet. Everything starts, what, Sammy? 6.30? Seven, I think, yeah. But we got it Blair and Barker coming in now.

Oh, my gosh. No reason to turn the dial to all sports net all the time our thanks to Renault Lavois from TVA and our very own Luke Fox Go Jays go

Go Jays go. Come on Keep her going boys Bieber time, baby. Have a great night everybody.