Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Canada Takeaways + Life Without 34

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee are joined for the Leafs’ Hour by Sportsnet’s JD Bunkis. To open the show, the guys give their takeaways from Team Canada’s loss to Czechia in the Quarterfinals at the World Juniors, and have the bigger conversation around minor hockey in Canada. They bring it back to Leaf-land by looking at Easton Cowan’s performance in the tournament, and what should be made of it. Then, they discuss Phillipe Myers’ contract extension and how he fits into the Leafs’ defensive group moving forward, before the conversation turns to Auston Matthews, his injury, and what the plan should be with his status still in limbo. Later, the guys discuss the Leafs’ potential interest in Jonathan Toews returning to the NHL, and what has changed for Matthew Knies since his injury earlier this season. (49:56) The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome into Real Kipper and Born. I am Justin Born. We are live on Sportsnet 590 and the fan Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet Plus. I am joined today. No Nick Kiprios. He is somewhere out of Washington or something. Does that sound right? But I'm joined today by the host of the J.D. Bunkus podcast, J.D. Bunkus himself.

Bunk, how are you, my friend? Hey. How are you? Handsome, isn't it? And of course, as always with us, my man Sammy McKee. Good day, Sammy. Hello. Hey, buddy.

I don't wear glasses on TV very often. I forgot that I was wearing them. I got to the subway. I was like, crap. I didn't put my contacts in. Those are really nice glasses, man. Did you just get a haircut, too? No, no.

That's not new? No, no, no. Is it a Christmas haircut? No, man. No, I just got good flow. I are really nice glasses, man. Did you just get a haircut, too? No, no. That's not new? No, no, no. Is it a Christmas haircut? No, man, no. I just got good flow, buddy. I don't know what to tell you. You're bringing back the mullet. I like it.

Anyways, it's kind of a fall thing. I don't want to go full mullet. Anyways, you guys should switch seats. Why? This is throwing me off because usually, like, it's like a rotation because now when you leave, when you leave after this hour, I will be going to sit at that desk through the national hour. Then I feel like I'll be out of place sitting there. I've never sat there, so

now we're going to be doing musical chairs. I feel like it's off. We've got to figure it out. I believe you. You know why we didn't change? It's because last time I sat there and Bunk lectured me about how that what are you, admitting that's the A chair seat? I was like, I don't know. That's true. i did say that

it worked i got in your head so bad i totally messed up just keep my seat um yeah we're coming off of toronto maple leafs two to one victory over the new york islanders um and a bit of a different day today because we don't get you in here very often we don't get you in here like this just about ever maybe once a year i don't remember how often we did last year. I will say, it's really the best part about that win over the Islanders was that I never have to watch the Islanders again. God. That is not.

Half stretch of hockey. So that was three times in how many days? Three times in a week and a half. Yeah. That is not an enjoyable watch. Like, I don't think they suck as bad as their record does. They have some good players, but they are hard to watch yeah everyone's okay they're okay cal palmieri's fine jg pashel okay that's just about them like do you get three games of brock nelson who's like one of

the most coveted i know there's a great point oh well it's not that I don't want him. Like, sure, he's better than the current options. Pontus Holmberg. Yeah, like, there's no doubt. And I'm sure he'd be one of those candidates that comes to a different team. And maybe he plays with Matthew Nyes. And both guys start to play great. And they have, like, a bit of an identity line. Yeah.

But I never left one of those three games going like, God, I'd kill for that guy. You know, he's, the leafs have a lot of guys that are shooters and they like to score robertson loves to score matthews love to score neil underscored you should do it more if he loves it nice nice score but they have guys who are just like they want to be the puck net shooter guy brock nelson's kind of that too he's another 36 goal 20 assist net front wow you're doing like the basketball thing of like there's only one ball there's a well it's just like it's james harden and russell westbrook can't coexist because there's only one basketball well you know how much of this audience knows what i'm talking about it's

actually a kip take that the team doesn't pass the puck all that well yeah yeah and it's like well i don't know that nelson's gonna be another guy who's suddenly they're zipping around the ozone it's another if i get it like last game he actually had a guy back door, and Nelson was like, no, me, I'm going to jam this into the goalie's pad. So, yeah. And he joined. You're going to say Easton Katt. Anyways.

Oh, yeah, I didn't even mention that. And Brock Nelson also, with golf season starting up, Scotty Scheffler not taking part in the century because he cut his hand on Christmas Day. Trevor Bauer. Brock Nelson, second in the world in America face to Scotty Scheffler. There has been no... He has a big America face.

Brock Nelson has the most American face I think I've ever seen in my life. It's just he looks so, so American. So, yeah, I think I came away from those games... Is this like a reason not to get him? No, no, no, no. I'm just saying. He's like, hey, he doesn't pass the park and fit well with the scheme of the team. And Sam's like, he also has a face that looks like an American guy.

Here, here. Yeah. We have two reasons not to acquire this man. I'm sure Tree Living brought that up where he's bringing all the AGMs and they're sitting around the table. Where do you stand on an American face? Like, listen, it's going to cost us minted in a first, boy. But he does have a face of an American guy.

He's very very very american looking guy that's all i have to say so another thing did happen last night that you alluded to there uh you guys follow it closer than i do but the team canada suffered a crushing defeat and so we had it on last night i did the game so i i was focused on the leaf so we had it on in the room i was aware of when they scored when they they tied it, when it slipped away. I guess we should probably address that, right, before we do Leafs. Where do we stand on this Canadian team and what happened? Where would you like to begin?

From the greater picture or the Leafs picture? Because I think they're two different conversations. I think greater, and we're going to get into Leafier stuff. But just, boy, what happened? So I think that right now we're in the midst of the blame game, right? Like, I'm not a junior hockey analyst. Like, I cover all sports on my pod. I do Leafs talk.

It doesn't fit into my sports diet, like, being able to watch a lot of junior hockey. Like, I've gone to one game this year. It was with Sam in Oshawa. And we watched, like, the team without Seneca. Like, it's just like. We watched the amazing pick, Ben Danford, just light it up in that game. It must have been his worst game of the year.

Oh, my God. He fell down three times. I really hope. Well, it also wasn't great that they decided to go with the shutdown defenseman group and the character group, and he was not on the list of said guys when he's already been drafted. I thought that that was a bit of an indictment of the pick.

Anyways, I think that everybody right now is trying to point fingers. And we do the thing, and I think part of it is right to say, hey, let's not blame the kids too much. Because what those guys are dealing with right now, especially that age group that is probably perpetually on their phone, that understands the world far greater through the lens of social media than the one that say we grew up in and that we, I think are a little bit more easily separated from like, you know, we've got

experiences of life without social media. We know that it isn't the be all end all that it isn't reality. We're able to, you know, you step in at the end of your day and you might've had a bad day on Twitter where people came at you, but ultimately you're going to sit around the kitchen table with your wife and your two kids and be able to separate yourself from that. I think that a 17 year old or an 18 year old right now, whose whole reality is like this tournament and getting their self-worth so much from their ability as a hockey player that when they look at and they open up an app on their phone and they see thousands of comments that are just about them personally, right, that it's difficult. And so I think like most people, I try to trend towards the

builders of the team rather than the team itself. I don't judge them quite like I would say the Maple Leafs. I think you speak more generally about the team as opposed to like the specific players. Yeah, but I also don't want to absolve them of all responsibility when they are the actual guys that were on the ice. It's like, how are we meant to... And they're being evaluated for million-dollar deals. Yeah, and some of them have already been drafted.

And like Easton Cowan, for example, like I've got thoughts on him and I don't think that they're unfair. I think that you've got to find that sort of right line, but with the criticism, but to me, it's like, we're already having these big conversations about hockey in this country. And we have been for quite some time.

And this started, uh, I would say probably a lot more during the pandemic when we were looking at the just lack of minority players in hockey. And we were having conversations like, Hey, uh, how come it's like like really one of the only professional sports that's like completely dominated by white guys?

And so we're like, okay, let's dig in on this a little bit. And we got to hear from other voices and we started to really think about like how to make this more of an inner city sport rather than just one that lives in the suburbs and what the future of Canada hockey looks like. And lately, I think it's been trending now more so with like the goaltending conversation.

Like, why aren't we developing goalies? Why is it that we're trying to track how the Americans are doing it and sort of following their lead and what is becoming apparent and what is difficult and what is embodied by the loss in this tournament? Again, not just a one-off quarterfinal loss, like their second one in a row, which hasn't happened since 1981 when there was West Germany. okay so it's been a minute it's kind of an important contextual point here with all of this is that i think a lot of canadians who really love this sport are not just looking at it through the lens of like oh these kids choked and the moment was too

big for them it was like oh or the coach was bad or hey the the general manager picked the wrong guys those are all layers to the conversation but to me the more fascinating one is like it was like, oh, or the coach was bad, or hey, the general manager picked the wrong guys. Those are all layers to the conversation. But to me, the more fascinating one is like, what are we doing to ensure that this remains a part of the Canadian national identity? Because we are the underdogs in every sport we play. There's no sport.

We go to play soccer, and we might be playing great in North America, and we could beat the United States, you know, once in, what, 40 years? That we're the top dog in the cycle, right? But we go internationally to a World Cup, and we see where we stand amongst the rest of the world, where it's like Croatia goes, are you serious?

Yeah. I thought you were going to win this game against us. One of my greatest bets of all time was Croatia plus money in that game. Yeah. That was the most insane thing ever. Anyway, so one thing with Canadian national identity is that it's like hockey is our game. It is the one that we will, for the most part,

rally around the television about. So you're asking, hey, we have a Canadian hockey problem in general. What is Canadian hockey now? Yes. Have we lost track of it? Yeah. Does it still matter?

I think it matters greatly. There are far fewer collective experiences that we have now as a society. There are far fewer things that tie us together as Canadians as there have ever been, right? We would all agree, like, without trying to get, like, too political, that the country is far more fractured than it has been in other years. But hockey is still a sport where when they host a tournament on home soil, you're going to see a building fill up the way that it did at, I can never remember what it's called now, where the Sens play.

Canadian Tire Center? No, it was Canadian Tire Center, but now I think it's. Corral Center. Yeah, it's not Corral Center anymore. It's one of the, I think it might be another Scotiabank one. Either way, so you will see people pack into that place. I think that hockey has always had not just an important place in terms of like the geography of this country and the way that it fits in terms of having family activities

out on an open ice surface. But I also think that it has served as a very important function for immigrant families who have come to this country that is a melting pot to find themselves embedded in the community to say like, hey, this is what we love here. Like, come be a part of it. This is the Canadian identity. This is where community can be found. Exactly. And it was that, I know that for my grandparents, like, which, you know, were immigrants to this country on one side.

Giannis Bunkas. Correct. So it's like, go love ya. So it's like, I'm worried about what it looks like if the rest of the world not only catches up, but if that does not be, that this is not the thing that we do best that we are not excellent at something that we are just one of the horde we are just one of the nations that is good at hockey that is considered a hockey nation yeah

but not the gold standard and what that does over time if we don't have that as like a touchstone of being canadian and to me like i'm maybe i'm overvaluing it because it's been so important in my life, but I know it has been for the two of you as well. I know that it has been for a large swath of this audience, and so I think I'm speaking directly to people that are kind of aligned philosophically with me on this. But, yeah, like, I think it's very important for Canada to figure this out, not simply because, like, it's a game,

not simply because it's the kids, but I think it's because it's such a huge part of who we are as people. Yeah. You know, I... Go ahead, Sam. No, no, no, I was just... Like, that's a game, not simply because it's the kids, but I think it's because it's such a huge part of who we are as people. Yeah. You know, go ahead, Sam. No, no, no. It's just, like, that's really well said. And, you know, I think there's been a ton of,

you mentioned about the management and who they took and all this stuff. I mentioned this last time in the Leafs talk. I'll mention it again here. You know, B team, B plus team, whatever that team was, some of the guys they left off. And there's, you know, there's the conversation about the Mesa and saginaw and guys out west all these guys and i'm not bucala i don't know their games inside and out but even if you take your if you're canada five six seven eight ten years ago and you take your b plus team to the world juniors that's good enough

to get to at least a set you're playing for for a medal, right? Like, talking about the conversation of not picking the right team, that's so secondary to me that you take their B-plus team and you can't get a scoring chance. You can't make a physical play without taking a stupid penalty. It's just like it feels like the first generation of kids on that point that have come up without, like, the emphasis on physical play and on like the contact part of it because you watch last night and two crucial points in the game is in

the first period where the guy misses a check in the middle of the ice it goes knee on knee we can talk about it for a five minute major or not i don't even think it was close it was close yeah it was greasy anyways and in the last minute of the game where buddy throws out his knee again he's trying to throw a huge hit it's like i just we've lost what hockey what hockey used to look like a little bit in this country and like i and you've i mentioned it to you that i think a lot of it just looks so similar like even these guys that have come up over the past few years watching them in the world juniors and a lot of it has to do with them wearing cages because they're young so i'll fully admit that but bedard coming up looked a lot like celebrini coming up looks a lot like gavin mckenna coming up where it's like this very distinct almost overcoached style with the specialization and all this stuff as opposed to just i don't know like

the core love of hockey it's almost like it's just overcoached, overdeveloped, over-skilled. There's too much. They play too much hockey. To me, it's like I think the conversation you're trying to have and this one are like the part about community is so important, but is success on the ice always going to be important to that community you're talking about because the world level is going to improve there's a ceiling to how fast man can run in the

100 meter dash we are never going to run it in seven seconds unless we keep changing the shoes well the shoes can only do so much as you put rockets in them you know like you know we can only run so fast and hockey I think there's a level that everyone is getting up to where it's like, you can only be this much better. And so if everyone's improving around the world and everyone's got the better gear and we're finding the techniques

as other countries get better, and we play a sport where luck is a heavy factor, the best team in the world in a game in the NHL, you know, the best team in the league versus the worst has in the nhl you know the best team in the league versus the worst has like a 60 chance of winning we're gonna lose some games to latvia like that you don't lose that game you're gonna you never have like you you win that game 15 nothing my whole life levels coming up they're getting into that realm where they're they deserve to be on the same ice as canada at the very least and so can we keep the sense of community you're talking about

without insisting it come with a gold medal every time? With including people, and I think this is something you kind of want to talk about a little bit too, is that identity of everyone being able to play. This is the biggest issue for me. And it's hard. It's expensive. That's the problem. And I have an eight-year-old kid who's playing hockey right now

who I didn't put in any camps, any tryouts, because I'm afraid of the GTHL. Yeah. And everything I've heard about it and the politics and the costs, and I'm afraid of it. And so has what hockey has become, a money-making machine for so many people, limited our ability to experience that community?

Absolutely. Why would Charlie be any good at hockey? His grandparents are. But this is such an important part of this conversation. Like, you know, sometimes I think we tiptoe around it, but like you'll just say it, it's becoming a sport for only the wealthy. Like you have to have means now for your kid to go far in the sport.

There's only so few. Yeah, you can play. You can get my kid to go far in the sport. There's only so few. Yeah, you can play. You can get my kid to skate a second time around and, you know, the house fees or whatever. But if you want to play, play. No, if you want to play, play, you're talking about tens of thousands of dollar commitment by the time your kid is in their early teens. Oh, and before. Yeah. And you're talking about those politics even before. And I think that part of this, and, like, I'm not putting this on these kids right now, right?

Like, I don't think that. But I do think that this is coming, and I'm seeing it with my friends' kids, and I'm seeing it with the game in general. It's like, you know, to Sam's point about professionalization early and these skill coaches and the drive of these parents that are politicking. Like, hockey parents used to be like a thing where it was one kid on your team. Yeah, you had one. Mine was Tammy. like hockey parents used to be like a thing where it was one kid on your team you know oh they're one or yeah you had one mine was tammy you know like tammy was the crazy hockey mom that was like

screaming at officials and like you know getting into coach's ears and it was like you had shut out tammy guess what i gotta tell you too i love tammy to death like tammy's like a sweetheart like you did a lot of good things for me but also like we had that one parent on the team and now it's everyone. It's certainly far more pervasive and you kind of have to play the game in order to kind of put your kid through the sport. And how could you not feel that way

when you're sinking tens of thousands of dollars for your kid? If they're sitting on the bottom pairing and they're not seeing any ice time and you believe in their ability and you're paying all this money and you're now starting to feel used like it would drive you crazy it would start to pull your hair out so to the community point you'd start thinking about

sending a mean email yeah to the community point the reason why it still does need to be like the level of excellence is like at least you need to be able to show like all right if this is just for the privileged few at least we're amazing at it right like at least it's just working out incredibly well so you're telling me now we have to all be like pay to play to the point where like a hockey sticks 400 where these league registration fees are in the tens of thousands where you've got you know a coaching problem all the way through minor hockey where you've got scandal after scandal through like multiple different leagues and i don't doubt there are people that are like well intentioned in this stuff like i know there are't doubt there are people that are like well-intentioned in this stuff. Like I know there are.

I know there are still volunteers. Oh yeah. Like I know there are people that are very passionate about the game that are doing their best and they're working against a very difficult system. But ultimately like the only way for you to not have just people essentially revolt against it

and just completely drop out and turn it into polo and just be like, yeah, I can't get a horse. But is a horse anywhere expensive? What I'm saying is, like, at least if the horses, if we've got the best horses, if our polo team's dominating every time, we're like, okay, we've got some connection to this, because I don't really see...

We're paying for horses and playing, like, ponies? Yeah, apparently tax costs a grand. So it's like the new sexy tax top of the line are like $1,200. Oh, tax. Yeah, you said cats. I was like, cats? What is this? I was like cats what is this

i was like now we're doing inflation talk i was like anyway i i just think like it's all trending in a really tough direction and for a lot of us who pride ourselves as canadians as like again having touch like these things that we can be like tactile that are what we mean to be Canadian what other how the world views us I'm proud that I've been proud that the rest of the world shows up to a tournament and they expect to lose to Canada yeah and so the fact that Canada is just like oh we can beat those guys that pains me I don't want it to be that way and I think the further that we do get from the success it is tied into the problems that it has underneath and shows that like this system isn't working and it's a kind of an indictment of you know

how we've treated something that is so important to who we are fundamentally as people or for many of us not everyone but a lot of us and i look at that game last night and borny you sent in a group chat the picture of like the checky a kid doing like the oh yeah shushing the crowd in canada you know that one bugged me. Czechia's a proud hockey nation. They've beat us in many games or whatever, but it's like at this level, we got to, that's a team you beat like a drum.

That's a team that we're doing that to. And it's just at this point, seeing that happen, it's like, oh, my God. You know, you see every American kid shoot it like Matthews and have this drive like we used to have. They're chirping Easton in the box they're gonna go cowboy they all got this like killer instinct it's like that was us well like registration in canada is down i know young men cost too damn like it's the the numbers are in

decline yeah rent is too damn high yeah it costs too much but it's still growing in the states and like they have a lot of the same set but in fairness they have a massive untapped population compared to here. Yeah. Which is true. We've already like, what was that one Gladwell book where he talks about, I think it was outliers where it's about like the population and how much you actually are able to funnel into doing a certain thing in Canada. I've done the most.

It's like, it seems like we have already maxed it out and the golden era of Canadian hockey. We're always going to have the top, like we're always going to have top guys, but it's just the layers under that is what concerns me. So, anyways. Yeah. Leafs? Was that too big?

No, I think, you know, because there's no sense. Everyone's going to pick a part out. They should have taken, you know, whichever. It's not that complex. We didn't take Sedecky. I always look at the text line. That's all I'm doing on this computer is looking at the text line, and we had 25, 30 texts about this, and no one's saying switch to Leafs. So, I think people liked it um did you want to weigh in on Cowan

before we or because that's leafy I've got one Cowan take let's have your cow it's the same thing as Brock Nelson I watched him in the tournament I get you can have a bad five games I didn't watch him and go oh you can't trade that guy oh I like that I I mean I've been if i had gavin mckenna i'd go like can't trade that guy if i had matthew schaefer i'd be like i'll take a bullet for that guy yeah the whole team fell apart the second he went out yeah but i'm just saying like you you do like i've watched enough of these that there are certain guys that you feel like they're untouchable and i think for cowan for a lot of people like they're not watching london night games every night they see the point totals.

And you're reminded, I'm not, again, this isn't trying to, like, I feel for the kid. I think that he ate it in a way that you're not supposed to at that age. So I'm not trying to pile on. This is not that. I'm sure he is terrific. I don't think that his numbers are inflated anyway, but, like, you look at Max Domi's numbers with London,

you look at Easton Cowan's numbers, and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. You know. The ceiling is maybe not, you know, league-leading score. Well, ifon Cowan's numbers and you're like, oh, okay. Like, you know. The ceiling is maybe not, you know, league leading score. Well, if you're a Leaf fan and you're thinking like, hey, you've got, what, three years after this of Austin Matthews?

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, I thought this was year one of the new contract. Year one of five-year deal.

Oh, it was five? No, it was a four-year deal, but he was in the, this is the first year of the four-year contract. Yeah, that's what I thought too. Either way. So it's like, you've got a window of Matthews of four years,

and now it might even be tighter than that, given whatever the hell it is with his body. Let's not do that. Okay, I'm joking. My bossy? I'll quit this show. Yeah, like I'll leave. I'll retire with him from ever doing this program again.

I just, I didn't see a guy that was like, oh oh next year you you can't wait for him to be on the team i'm like okay so if it's further than that you're into two years left of matthews i'm just saying if you could drastically improve the team i'm not just trading them and giving away i'm like trying to diminish the value my only point is is that if you told me like hey frazier minton and easton cowan which one of these two guys would you be more reluctant to move? It would have always been Easton Cowan. And now having seen Frazier Minton, at least knowing that he's kind of close

and that he can provide you with salary cap relief and that he plays the center position and that he can do that for you at a really discount rate. And trust me, I hope somebody clips this and they throw it in my face in two years because Cowan's like, you know, winning the Calder. I mean, I think the point that a lot of people are making, I'm not the first one to say it,

is that, you know, Minton was the captain of the team last year that was equally as disappointing. Yeah. And he came in and he played well in the preseason. He played well when he was up here. My point is just untouchable. Yeah. Same with Nyes, right?

Nyes was underwhelming in the world juniors, had an underwhelming, he lost in overtime in the championship game with his team. Yeah. They were like the favorite or whatever. You can have these junior hockey moments where everything is like, I can't imagine being Cowan today. Like, you know, I just, because like you said, the extremely online situation where all these kids are on their phone,

they're on Twitter all the time. Like they showed that shot of Schaefer and the guy he was up in the press box with when he was like injured. And he literally just like didn't look up from his phone for like the full 35 second shot. It's like they're on their phone constantly. And the other part of that is, is that this whole nation can't stand the Leafs and they love nothing more than Leafs failure. And it comes to with the actual Leafs.

They cheer for anybody who plays against like the Leafs have the target at all times. Of course. So when you have a high profile event and the Leafs quote unquote top prospect in it underperforming, that's just, that's charming the waters for a lot of fans of other markets. And like, he's just taking a beating. Like I see, I see it on Twitter. I see it.

And like, listen, I'm not, he's not my favorite, like London Knights. You all know my, my, my standing on it, but I feel for the kid, like, listen, he's not my favorite. Like, London Knights, you all know my standing on it. But I feel for the kid, man. Today's got to be absolutely brutal for him. Like, truly, truly brutal. Yeah. I guess sort of where I'm going with it is, like, you know, our conversation is, I think, going to go towards what do you do,

no Matthews? And, like, it's not exactly the deepest trade market, which is, again, very leafy in the sense of, oh, okay, something might actually break your way where you could use the assets you have and try to— Trying to LTIR Matthew. Yeah, like— Yanni Gord. Well, yeah, that's it, right? It's like—

Oh, I do like it. I would say that one of the strongest cases against putting him on LTIR is like, A, he's already had a lot of time off and came back and got hurt basically immediately. Like he did Germany and he did a month of rest and came back and it was like, he's got the alibis. The alibis are there for LTIR. Yeah.

No, the alibis are certainly there for the, for LTIR. I just mean more so from the practical standpoint of being able to weaponize that cap space, like Tampa was a team that was already over the cap. Like they were a team that was like, Oh,

we don't know how this is going to work without you doing it, so go do it so we can have a good team. With the Mark Stone situation, they've been able to weaponize it at trade deadlines in a way where it's like, whoa, they brought in who? Yeah, they got Hurdle last year at the deadline. Yeah, just with the Leafs.

Crazy team. Like, I do this content same as you guys every day. I've looked at every trade board. I've texted the people. I've bugged different people and trying to get a read on, like, well, who could be out there? Kadri. But, again, that's just pie-in-the-sky stuff. Like, it's not happening. Yeah, like, they wouldn't trade

Tanev here. They're going to eat money on a Kadri contract to trade him to Toronto? Like, there's just no shot. No. I don't see it. No sense getting lost in that stuff. But, yeah, that's what I mean. It's just like when I look at the players that are out there that are available, like, I think we would agree now, like, there seems to be a growing need for right-shot defensemen.

Right? Like, they could use one. Although, name the guy. They just locked up their right-shot defenseman, Phillip Myers, for two years. Was it $850,000 per year? Yeah. What do you think of him? You know, I've actually been pleasantly surprised the last little bit.

You know, going into the year, I talked to some people who kind of thought not physical at that size, but I do think that rangy, long D like that take a little time to sort of sort themselves out. Obviously, Chara is an exceptional example, but Zdorov might be a good one too where young, he didn't look very good. Myers is 27, coming up in 28, 168 games in the nhl i think last time i looked so like i could see him being good over the next two years at 850 and not hating that deal if he can just defend and this is clearly a true living sort of thought is that locking up these fringe guys that kind of look good early to a couple year contract like you do with m Benoit, and now he's done it with Myers, where—

Those have been good deals. I think early on, I think I saw something from Nick Richard, maybe our boy, that Myers and Riley, in their short time together, have actually had pretty decent results and, like, a decent amount of goal share, over 50% of the goal share together. Like, you're looking to, because you, I mean, the Shen thing is so obvious. And when we talk about,

I got a Shen jersey up today just because, uh, because Bunkus is in here and the Luke's troops, but, uh, you're the dudes, you know, we're the dudes.

We're the Luke's troops. You can wear many hats. All right. I just, I think like if you can find a guy internally here and pay him $850,000, that's capable of Morgan Riley riley and have him be like because we talked about this last night at least i'll say it here again you have your elite shutdown pairing with with uh tan evan mccabe and then you can kind of work down from there right

and if you can get some comp like 16 17 minutes out of philip myers a night do the sort of luke shen thing that you did with him when he was here this year. It's like it's starting to come together a little bit. I don't want it this year, though, in playoffs. Is that enough for you? No, I'd like it more. That's what I'm saying. I've been feeling that a lot lately. Like the Islanders, I think part of the reason why the Leafs

look so bad against such a mediocre team is that they can't break the puck out. And it's the same thing that we've talked about over and over. So you go up against a formidable forechecking team with a bunch of veteran players. They don't want to. They just want to bang it off the glass. You're right.

And you and I have had this conversation privately. Nobody doesn't want a breakout pass. He just wants to beat it to a square. Right. So some of it is like, hey, what are you actually capable of versus what are you being asked to do? Sure. So, like, for example, like, I think Morgan Riley

has had one of the more disappointing seasons of any Leaf but it's also like what is the thing that makes Morgan Riley great? It's his skating. Skating, breaking the puck out. His ability to like skate the puck up the ice and they're like don't do that. Stop that. Get it out. Like we don't want you

wheeling up in the play. We want you chipping it off the boards and then he's like oh I'm hemmed in and I got scored on and people are like what an idiot loser he told me yeah exactly who are you supposed to blame in this situation but for me it's like there also have been moments where like oliver eckman larson on his offside is not working for me no he's gonna be tj brody vibes over there you can't just can't make a play with it. Yeah. And so to me, like, yes, if they get Luke Shen, am I going to cry? It was joy.

Yes. Yes. We will leave together, but there is a part of me looking at this right now and saying, I think what you're doing with your approach at the deadline is you need to add a center in some way or another. But if you're using like to kind of tie it back to the Cowan conversation we're having,

if you really had to go after someone who was awesome, like, if there's one name that's there, and, like, again, let's just put it out as a hypothetical player, not as someone that is an actual practical name. And you're trying to make a decision of, like, well, it's the defenseman, and we want to save our bullet for the centerman. Kind of think that it's not that you're better served,

but I view them as a team that lucks out at the top of the draft and you go, just take the best player available. And that's kind of my approach for the Leafs at the deadline this year. Take the best player available. If you're using one of those chips that you have in Cowan or in Minton, which I would be reluctant to do given what they have in the cupboards because you really need to be sharp with what you end up getting back. They've never had cheap talent and it's like they've been desperate for it.

Exactly. And look at what Nize has even done for them, right? Huge. And there's a reason why McMahon is such a big part of it. It's like use cheap talent. And they need that and it's been year over year where they've missed it. But it's like so you've got to be very cautious of it. I'm not advocating to just be out there being like,

Cowan for sale, you know, after it's a tough. My only thing is, is like if you're going to go there, I wouldn't hate it if it was also for a defenseman with term. Now, should I break or carry on on this? What do you think? Okay. So the one thing that makes all of this a massive question mark is the thing we started the conversation with,

which is the Matthews situation. And let's say you guys talking about LTIR for Matthews. If he, we saw him rest and come back and look not like himself. He's literally 75%. If you look at like what his projected total goal scoring and he is 75% of himself. So he's resting right now. He may come back and be 75% of himself. And if he's 75% of himself so he's resting right now he may come back and be 75 of himself and if he's 75 of

himself is it a year that's worth spending cowan or minton or whatever asset to add someone you cannot win a stanley cup without austin matthews like marner's been awesome and the goalies have been awesome they're not winning four rounds for two months of hockey without more scoring than they currently have. They need him to be a player for them. If his back is too bad, I worry about the idea of going in and getting rid of a future asset. All of a sudden, Matthews is in the press box. You've got Nazem Khadri at center instead of him.

And you're a slightly worse version of what you were the year before. And you've given up assets. I have no notes. No, I mean, it's well said no for sure it's what you disagree i think you could win like guys tough out injuries all the time in the playoffs and i do think that there's a situation where they don't win without mcdavid no no but this is a pain threshold thing where we're halfway through the season here and he's not pushing it he's not pushing himself he's he's not once they juice him up with the cortisol once they start firing wherever the hell they fire it all cortisol when they fire his lower back or his foot or his wrist

or his ear whatever people have been dming me with their theories whatever the hell it is i think if you have if you add four players or three players or whatever it is with his ltir money if that's what they end up doing which would so unconfirmed that they're even thinking about it but if that's what they do and you have austin matthews potentially playing through injury in the playoffs which he obviously will be because he's not gonna be at 100 this year feels like i still think you do have a chance to win with him playing at 75 or 70 if he's playing for if he's playing if he's pushing through injury but if he's not willing to do that then you're screwed

i completely agree with what you're saying well Well, here's the other part of it. Again, the Leafs have forced us into a position where we have to guess. So I don't really apologize for doing this. But just through deduction and him talking about it where he's like, I'm not sure it's something I can get over. Tells me it's not a broken rib. No. Like it's not a pectoral.

It's not a bone to heal. It's not a pectoral injury. It's his back. Yes. Which makes the most know? Yeah. Like, it's not a pectoral. It's not a question for a bone to heal. It's not a pectoral injury. It's his back. Yes. Which makes the most sense. Yeah. If you're playing through certain injuries, right, and you know you have to have an off-season surgery,

say, like, on a torn labrum. Yeah. That's a surgery that's done often. That's something that you can feel confident in, right? Like, I remember, like, when I had a, what was it, like a hernia. It's like, it's an in and out procedure. I was like, I'm scared.

And they were like, dude, they do a billion a day. And off you go. Like they do a million of these a day. Take a number like at the deli. Exactly. Exactly. So it's like, who cares? If it's his back and he has to play through an injury through post-season hockey.

Yeah. Surgery reportedly has not even been a conversation that's on the table for him now. Like, you want to talk about the early retirement thing? Back surgery is not like, and he's cured. Oh, my God. Who is not? I think if you are a human being who has lived on Earth

for longer than 15 years, you've heard a horror story about someone who had a back injury that they had, it was so bad, they had to go back and get a surgery, and then they were never the same person again. And so I just don't think that that's necessarily the type of injury in a

do or die murderous hockey tournament that goes on for more than a month, that you're like, hey man, just take the shot and get out there. It's the first round is what you have to survive. Because then after the first round, it really normalizes. You're actually right that the murder level does decline. Murder level in the first round?

Yeah, because everybody's already murdered. Yeah, look, there's like nine stragglers. If you can survive the first two games of any playoff series in the first round, you can survive. But those first two games, it's like, it's as intense as it gets. It's just roller derby.

Here's the thing, we're all guessing, but, Bourne, like to your point about this, like this is where you need to have an astute front office, and this is where you make your bones if you're Bradtree living, and this is kind of why it stinks having a president who is sort of on the like, who is he going to be here forever? Like what's his desperation level for them to move past the first round? Like you have two guys looking at the same thing, right? But one guy's looking at it through the lens of like,

well, I'm going to be here and I have multiple bullets. And then there's a guy with one bullet and they're having these kinds of conversations. My guess is that one guy is going to be a little bit more aggressive in terms of trying to get the success now. When to me, the thing that you're pointing out is you have to trust your front office that they are going to make the hard and the right decision of you know matthews has not responded well to this all season long we tried him again to because he wanted to go to the four nations tournament and he wanted to

get back on the ice and he loves playing and he's sick of sitting around he even said he's not the type of guy who's very good at just being still for long periods of time. I'm sure he's getting nuts to going back out on the ice. But if he's to return, and he looks like the same guy where, you know, night three of four, he's looking like he's got a piano on his back, and he can't back check, and his shot is like, you're looking at his shots per game, and like, where the hell are they?

And he takes a cross check, like on a routine play in front of the net and he's down on the ice and his teammates are fighting for him whenever he gets bumped because they're terrified of him eating any contact. I think that that's when you look at it realistically ahead of the deadline and say he is going to be compromised and we can't rely on the idea that he's going to be healthy for this period of time and that we're going to use up one of our essentially only two real trade assets right now. Well, they have picks too. But isn't it impossible to imagine? In 26, 27, like they can trade those.

Isn't it impossible to imagine a world where they're first in the Atlantic division? Yeah. With, you know, with Matthews being out for long stretches of the season and they get to the trade deadline, they go, Nah, Matthews ain't right. We're the season and they get to the trade deadline, they go, nah, Matthews ain't right. We're sitting it out. You good luck to everyone else. It's impossible because of how bad everyone wants it here.

The hardest decision in the world would be like, Matthews ain't right. This ain't our year. We'll re-sign Marner and take a few more cracks. But they are doing the right thing already of putting out publicly of like we're looking for term. Yeah. Yeah.

Which just tells me because, and this has been a longstanding problem with hockey, but there's nothing I hate more than the trading a first round pick for one run with a player thing. It feels like it never works. It's very rare. And yeah, I just don't feel as though the Leafs are one rental player away from being a Stanley Cup winner.

An Islanders writer put Noah Dobson, 24-year-old right-hand shot D, in a trade rumor today. Oh, yeah, to the Canucks? For Pedersen, yeah. Yeah, like that. But that's the kind of trade you make with that. That's what I mean. There's weird options where it's Brandon Hagel,

and you say we'll give you multiple firsts for. That's a fascinating what if. Yeah. You know? I think it would have been nice, though, right? Yeah, fine. All right. Sorry.

We need to. It's Brandon Hagel. He's on Team Canada, by the way. Yeah, it would be fine. Yeah, let's take a break. We'll be back after these messages. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The JD Bunkers Podcast.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. J.D. Bunk is sour. It's a little bit sour. We got bunk on hand. Going to break there. We didn't get to a conversation that we really wanted to have here.

Jonathan Taves. Jonathan Taves is in the news right now. There are people talking about the potential of him coming back to play in the NHL this year. They gave a quote to GQ that was like, I don't know what the future holds or whatever. What were your thoughts in that being in GQ? I was like, that's where we learned this? Well, my thoughts on it were I didn't read it because it was in GQ. Haven't cracked a magazine in a while.

Well, even like it wasn't exactly one of the sites that I visited. It wasn't like I was scrolling through GQ. I was like, oh, Taves. Time to check Gentleman's Quarterly. But they would still have a physical magazine. Yeah, I'm sure they do. They're big enough that they can afford to just throw the money away. Yeah.

But anyways. But Cervelli was on with the morning show guys today and said that the Leafs for sure would be one of the teams on the list of people that are interested in Jonathan Taves. So? Wait. What is the quote? Is he saying the Leafs would be interested?

After expressing interest in resuming his career, multiple teams have reached out to his agent. The Leafs for sure would be one of those teams on the list. Okay. From Frank Cervalli on the morning show with Ben Ennis and Brent Gunning on Sports Night 5. I'm curious. What's all your details?

Well, to me, this is one of those things where, like, of course the Leafs would reach out. But my thought is if the Jets and the Avalanche are in play. Because, like, okay, so this guy's not going back to Chicago. Duh. Like, you just watched the Winter Classic. Oh, my God. Not many people did.

Yeah. Anyways, continue. He's got to pick his final landing spot for his career. He's not going somewhere not to win. That's the thing that drives this guy. You're telling me that the Manitoba kid is going to go look at the Toronto Maple Leafs and be like, hey, as I'm trying to make my comeback, probably not at 100%. In the limelight of Toronto.

Listen, I would probably one digit, one knuckle for a healthy John Taves, to the least, right? Yeah, I mean, it's not 2016 anymore. He was very bad last year in the league. I love that guy so much that even just the optic of him in the sweater, it's like, I'll do it. Like, I'll do it. You're not going to end up working with your hands anyway, pal. Yeah, like, exactly. Like, what's a left hand,'re not going to end up working with your hands anyway, pal. Yeah, exactly. Like, what's a left hand, pinky finger, one knuckle up?

Like, it's a cool story. Yeah. You know? And I would feel as though I would get some of the credit if he did sign. I got tapes to the Leafs. They got them to the Leafs. People were like, oh. No goals, no assists.

Four shifts. It's like, yeah, maybe when I die, they'd put my hand, like, in case in a tomb that Leaf fans could go see if they won a cup. Like, that would be kind of cool. They got that, like, in case in a tomb that Leaf fans could go see if they want to come. Like, that'd be kind of cool. They got that, like, in Hungary with a soccer or an old king. I could get that. But you look at the Jets. Like, you mentioned them.

Are they, do they want Jonathan Taves? For sure. Like, they're the best team in the league. Yeah, they do. And, like, they're a deep. You know what they don't have? What's that? Jonathan Taves?

No. Born. Experience winning? People who go to the games and pay. Oh, great point by you. And you know what would probably be good for getting and enticing some of their general populace to... Their most famous hockey player of all time. Bingo.

So, yeah, I think that they would be fairly... You mean fourth line center David Gustafson doesn't do it for the people? I was literally just about to say that. I think that they could probably sell a few of the sweaters in the arena. And I'm pretty sure how it works is, because this is how it works in baseball anyway. I assume this is the other way in professional sports, where it's like when you sell the sweater in your arena,

you get the money. If they bought it off the team sport, it's like the team site, it's like spread around to the league. So, like, you got to get the butts in the seats so that people buy the sweaters and the jerseys in the arena. And I would think that the Taves player tee and slash jersey would be a hot commodity at that team shop. And then Colorado.

I think Colorado is, like, always just the older star. Like, because we had that one team when we were kids where it was, like, team Korea. Korea went there, and we were like, well, I guess that's where they go. Like, with Sid. It's like, Sid, go to Colorado. It's like, what's the reasoning?

Well, they're good. They're from Coal Harbor. Yeah. I know that that one in particular, but I'm just saying, like, any older star. Rob Blake went there. Like, all the guys. Ray Bork. Ray Bork.

It's sort of just a Switzerland of everyone can sort of root for that without any anger coming their way. Like, you know. They're a likable team. Yeah, they're just likable. It's just an easy thing to do. It's the Rockies. What is the, you know. They're a likable team. Yeah, they're just likable. It's just an easy thing to do. It's the Rockies. What is the, you know, quick game time here?

What's the number, like the betting line that Jonathan Tavis plays a game in the NHL this season? Plus a thousand? Yeah, I don't think right. Well, here's the thing. Like, the only information we have is from a GQ article I didn't read and Frank on the morning show quote that you just gave me. So it's. But it's bubbling up. We don't even know who wrote the GQ article I didn't read and Frank on the morning show quote that you just gave me. So it's, but it's bubbling up.

We don't even know who wrote the GQ article. It's out there. Like he was talking about last night on the Amazon thing, on the Thursday night thing. Like he's skating. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

I wouldn't say it's plus a thousand because. Plus 500? Teams are going to give Jonathan Taves a chance. That's what I'm saying. Like he's going to go, like whatever team signs him, he's going to go do the conditioning stint with their AHL affiliate. He's going to play there. He's going to do with the Cody Hodgson thing where he went down there and he played or whatever

when he was trying to make a comeback last year. I mean, it's a little different situation with Jonathan Tays and Cody Hodgson, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. And if he looks good, he's going to get up. He's going to get a chance. But I just, you know, it's, I think obviously it's a lot of name recognition, but he wasn't very good when he stopped playing.

I didn't think the health issues and all that stuff, but like it was on the downside then and that's what when was it 2023 2022 the last time he played i don't know have we not here 2025 he went to india and did like his healing journey and well yeah just that like if again this is just all speculation of us you know kicking the can around it's a podcast it's not a congressional hearing if we're all just kind of kicking around a can amongst friends if i'm trying to like read into this as knowing that we know about taves which is that he's a fairly private guy and someone who like left the game pretty unceremoniously and was like upset and unsatisfied i can't imagine that he would be throwing his name into the public sphere without some measure of confidence that like the feeling of his body is in a pretty decent place.

We just saw this with Pacioretty. Why can't it happen with him? And I believe... Yeah, it's a decent parallel. For him to go play in another league, he'd have to clear waivers. There's some complications. He can't just go play hockey somewhere.

So he... Yeah, I guess it's maybe not as long a shot as possible and it probably makes sense to come back for a month yeah see how it feels you know we'll see if he can resume a long runway too of like showing the team and like taking his time and knowing that like he's not going to play a full season but trying to ramp the body up to a place where he can kind of get there closer to the deadline after Four Nations. It's like, hey, I'm out there. Put a call in. I'll show up.

I'll work out for your team. But I just, I cannot imagine that someone who is as good at hockey as he is, who is as private as he is, would put himself out there for a team to take a look at him and then show up and it's like, oh my God, he can't move. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He has some idea of what it's like.

He's watching the league. He's not going to be Phil Kessel with Abbotsford't move. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has some idea of what it's like. He's watching the league. He's not going to be Phil Kessel with Abbotsford last year. Oh, yeah. He went out there and he's like, oh, I couldn't move around. Yeah, he was on a healing journey.

He looked like the bad guy in the Sonic the Hedgehog movie. He literally was just like red-faced. When's the last time you think John Tate's had a Coca-Cola? It's been a minute. I don't know if he's ever had one. It's been a minute.

It's been a minute. We only have a few minutes left and uh before we came on you'd also mention that you got a nice thought and i wanted to make sure to give you the opportunity i want to ask you a question okay so he now i believe has two goals in his last 16 games because he played 15 in january one now or sorry in december one in january and bad since the concussion um i think he has one goal in his last nine. He has two in his last 15. That all checks out. Yeah.

So this is, again, I didn't bring a computer in today, so I'm strong. Not to brag. Just going off the lid here. Just came for eye contact. Let me see if there's anything on the text line. Yeah. So the shooting percentage has dropped off a cliff, right? Like he's gone from something like 27 one

month 22 another to i think like around nine maybe even lower than that now um and i wanted to ask you like berube addressed it and mentioned how he wants him to play a little bit more like recklessly i think was the term to you when you watch him play are you just seeing someone who's shooting percentages down or are you seeing someone someone who is now up five minutes a night from where he was last year in his second season and is hitting a wall in the lull part of the season? Like a level of concern, I guess. Yeah.

No, I've been concerned. Part of what made him effective is that he looked like he was going to be like a Tom Wilson type where he just says, I'm just going to be the guy who takes up this ice, and I'm going to shoot it. It definitely looked like after the concussion, he didn't have that sort of forced dominance control. To your point, though, he had eight shots over about an eight game stretch leading up

to the two Islander games. He had eight shots over the last two games against the Islanders. I did think he's been better. He had the goal waved off where Nylander goal interference or whatever. And that was a nice goal. And I mean, it's been since like Brubé called him out in the media the first day.

And then he said we need him to be more reckless. Like he made a pretty big point to say that we kind of need to, I mean, he's really important. I think it's really hard for these guys to play with Matthews and Marner. To accept that they're not Matthews and Marner. Like whether it's Bunting or it's Hyman or it's...

You are a different thing. You get to be on the line, but you have to do different things. You don't get to just, like, oh, now we're the line. It's us. You know, Bunting for years posing, like, in a trio photo. It's like, no, it's them. I was always like, Tyson Berry was always in the, like, they'd go meet Bieber, and it was like, Matthews, Marner, and then Riley

and Berry. He kind of lopped on yeah he's apparently a super popular teammate but yeah I don't know like for me I had the feeling of when he scored that goal against the Islanders of and I was with Sam like we were at the bar and I looked at him and I was like god he needed that yeah yeah and that's when you like I just you know I kind of processed that thought and went oh yeah I guess if you're saying he needed that that he's sort of been a bit of a ghost

and the shooting percentage thing I think is the easy thing to point to but it's also like I don't tend to love that excuse but that's what I'm saying is like I think it's

a part of the puzzle right like you and I are big like it's never one thing guys but to me the like if you're doing the greater concern thing is there were moments

in the season last year. We got to go. 30 seconds. You don't have headphones in. Oh, yeah. I don't have headphones. It was just like he hit a bit of a wall last year.

He seemed like he slowed down. He's a big guy. It's a lot of muscle. A lot of body mass moving around. And it's five minutes up a night. It's like January. It's a lot. Yeah.

You're used to playing 20 games of college hockey. Thanks, bud. All right. This has been the Leafs Hour with our friend J.D. Bunkus. Check out the J.D. Bunkus podcast. And Leafs Talk.

And Leafs Talk, which is also a wonderful program. We'll be back with the NHL Hour right after this.