Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Can't Teach Toughness

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with an update on the Corey Perry situation as he released a statement today. Then, onto the Leafs as they match up against the Kraken tonight and how they need to be grittier at the top of the lineup. They are joined by Kraken play-by-play announcer John Forslund (31:15), who gives Seattle's POV ahead of tonight's game, their abundance of forward depth, Beniers' sophomore slump and how much the team will miss Jaden Schwartz as he heads to the IR. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

🎵 and born show this is the toronto maple leaf edition full hour breaking down what where when and why on the toronto maple leafs as they get ready to battle the seattle kraken wherever you're listening or watching sports net 59090, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6 p.m. Eastern. We're glad you're aboard. As always, you can always download us, play us at your earliest convenience where you get your pods.

And remember to text us at 590-590. We always want to hear what you think of our show. Hey, people have been listening. You see some of these Spotify-wrapped shows? Who do we need to give a shout-out to from yesterday? I mentioned Derek Agostin at, I think, 20 hours, and I'm like, that's a ton. And then everybody's going, hey, Derek, move over, bud.

Listener Morgan Price sent me one last night that said 40,000 minutes. What does that mean? She's a top 0.0% fan on Spotify. Wow. 40,000 minutes. I think it's 20,000, but needs to play it twice because we don't make sense a lot of the time. Well, maybe.

You know, I actually did the math on it and that you got analytics on it yeah the the amount of listening morgan did was i think we did 200 shows last year he would listen to 338 shows she listened she listened sorry sorry sorry sorry she listened to yeah 338 shows and two we only 200. So shout out for the read lessons, excuse me. I just can't appreciate the support enough. See? Can't express the appreciation enough. With your analytics, useful.

Useful. Useful stuff. I'm trying to see who else, like, they just got so many of them listening so much. So really appreciate it. We'll get to a few of them throughout the day. We're happy to acknowledge them and thank them for their support. I love you guys! Maybe the only reason why we're still in business.

It could possibly be why we're employed. It is literally the reason why we're employed. If there's no one listening, they may not be here. Sammy, you got a quick reminder for all our listeners about All-Star Weekend? Yeah, the 2024 Rogers NHL All-Star Game will be expanded to a three-day event with the NHL All-Star Thursday at Scotiabank Arena featuring the Tim Hortons NHL All-Star Player Draft,

which there will be no last pick apparently, the NHL Alumni Man of the Year honoring the 1967 Maple Leafs and the Canadian Tire PWHL 3-on-3 Showcase. Tickets to the NHL All-Star Thursday go on sale Tuesday, December 5th at 10 a.m. Eastern time on Ticketmaster. You can catch all the action, including the Rogers All-Star game

on Sportsnet. Sportsnet! Sportsnet! Nice job, Sammy. All-Star! The Toronto Maple Leafs look to make it back-to-back wins, taking on the Seattle Kraken. But before that, guys, just within the last hour, we did hear a Corey Perry statement that was issued, I think, in the last hour.

I think it's important to address it because it is a very hot story. Yeah. Corey Perry has issued this statement. I would like to sincerely apologize to the entire Chicago Blackhawk organization, including ownership, management, coaches, trainers, employees, and my teammates. I'd like to apologize to my fans and my family. I am embarrassed that I have let you all down as a result of my actions. There has been speculation and rumors. I am sickened by the impact that this has had on others and I want to make it clear that there is

in no way did this situation involve any of my teammates or their families. More importantly, I want to directly apologize to those who have been negatively affected and I am sorry for the additional impact to others it has created. My behavior was inappropriate and wrong. I've started working with experts in the mental health and substance abuse fields to discuss my struggles with alcohol and I will take whatever steps necessary to ensure this never happens again. I hope to regain the trust and respect of everyone who has believed in me throughout my career. Once again, I am deeply sorry, Corey. Let's start with you, JB, because something that you've been well, it's been well documented through your book, Down and Back,

and the struggles, mental, physical, emotional, you've been through it all. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if Corey Perry really is someone who has been struggling with alcohol or with some of these things and needs help, you certainly don't want to kick anyone when they're down. So, you know, there will be a community of people with an extended hand there to reach out and help him and work through whatever. And I don't know.

And so I'm going to sort of turn the page and not just speaking about Corey Perry, but like I knew this statement was coming. And so did pretty much everyone. the page and not just speaking about cory perry but like i knew this statement was coming and so did pretty much everyone and i just i really if if it's not i don't want to be unfair to perry specifically but it just feels like people use something that i genuinely struggled with as a crutch as sort of a get out of jail free card or a pass or you know it's a oh it's uh you know alcohol i struggle with alcohol and i need help and all of a sudden everyone's go okay well and so i just i hope he i hope this is legit i hope he gets the help he needs and i hope all that i just knew before anything happened that

this sort of thing was going to be out there right it's going to be involved in some way. So, you know, it does feel like this could be for him the path back to the NHL. If he does, you know, he sincerely apologizes. He works through whatever programs he needs to and people, you know, he can say in a couple months, you know, I've worked through my issues. I don't know. I can see how this gets him back on the path.

And I don't know his personal situation but yeah. Just a quick note here. I mean that's just really fair and I appreciate you saying it buddy. Yeah all good. Just note too in the second hour we will have Brian Burke former NHL general manager

and executive on our show and we'll revisit this with him and I'm sure he's got some things to say about that and uh i'm looking forward to his expertise over the years of being an executive and managing with things behind the scenes and all of that so uh i noted that your column today you had mentioned that you know it kind of raised eyebrows that Kyle Davidson was out there by himself talking about this.

Did you feel like maybe ownership didn't want? There's no question that Chicago ownership didn't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. Just didn't want to be seen on camera. I don't know. For me, this is far beyond asking a 35 year old relatively inexperienced general manager to go handle something like this.

I've talked to other clubs where a lot of them would immediately outsource this. This is out of our expertise. You go hire companies or you have companies within a phone call away to help you manage this. Yeah. What's crazy is I think Chicago does have someone on retainer,

some sort of PR firm. Maybe they were late to getting them. Sure didn't look like that the other day with just Kyle up there fumbling his words and looking like, you know, a deer in headlights. Yeah. So you mentioned too that Coreyory perry is not going to grieve yeah i i uh outside of my article with the toronto star uh uh i do a news and notes as well and still as of yesterday there wasn't a uh a strong sense that cory perry was going to go ask

the pa to grieve this uh this to get his money back. Now, of course, it's been well documented, as other reports have stated, that he's got between now and 59 days, 60 in total, to revisit it and say, I do want my money back. Well, you know, another thing that stands out to me is you've made a statement now that says you have problems,

you know, mental health and substance abuse fields to discuss my struggles with alcohol. So if he is someone with mental health issues and alcohol issues, this is the sort of thing that teams help you with. They don't fire you over. We had from the daily face-off frank cervelli yesterday or the day before it was yesterday yesterday i can't even

remember and he did mention that there there are some belief that that maybe chicago reacted too quickly here that they were overly sensitive based on their uh well episode with uh kyle beach that they they wanted to distance themselves right away from it and you know listening to his statement you know my first thing my first thought is that you know there's there's various levels of inappropriate behavior to criminal charges. Yes. And everything that at least I've been able to gather, and again, I'm not privileged to a lot of things here, but it's not leaning towards criminal activity that transpired right so where is that

line between bad judgment inappropriate behavior and kicking a guy in his contract to the curb yeah well because it does feel like he they're it's not criminal they're gonna let him he knows he did something wrong obviously so he's gonna walk away from that four million dollars but he's also saying it's because he has this like substance abuse issue or whatever in which case it's not criminal and you have an issue you don't get fired for that so it's not all working for me the latest example that I come to at the top of my head is head coach of the Boston Bruins, Jim Montgomery. Yeah. And again, you know, you're in the inner circle a little bit.

You hear stories. And I heard some not very flattering stories on Jim Montgomery. Yeah, me too. He steps away. He goes to rehab. Within what? But between the time that Dallas let him go

and he's back on the Boston Bruin bench, didn't seem that long of a period. No. And I don't think anybody is throwing anything in his face the last little while. He's done a hell of a job. Yeah. But here's the but is someone gonna say what's the difference between Jim Montgomery and Corey Perry how come

he gets another chance how come he gets to rehabilitate and and send the message that I'm better I fixed myself I am I am a better person for it. Will Corey Perry get that same opportunity as Jim Montgomery? But this is kind of what I mean, what I meant off the top about the, you know, seeking treatment as a PR move sometimes. And I'm not saying that's what Perry is doing.

But I'm saying people do it. Hollywood. Yes. Doctors, lawyers. times and i'm not saying that's what perry is doing but i'm saying people do it hollywood yes doctors lawyers like there's a whole field out there where crap is going on behind the scenes and doesn't necessarily get played out in in the spotlight on the internet like this one did and i think you know with someone like montgomery i think there is sort of a history with him where people knew that he had a problem and he had been fighting it for years and he you know this is sort of the root of his issues i don't know you know you know people tend to be more forgiving of that not everything i did in my darkest days has been forgiven but they tend to be understanding that you're going through something

if you just did something crummy as a one-off you know people are less forgiving so i think it kind of depends how people look at what cory has been through and you know in terms of what's fair to welcome him back because yeah it's november 30th today it's not impossible to see him trying to pave a way back or to pave a way to get back the contract he signed, the rather lucrative contract he signed. Okay. I'm sure there'll be a trickle of this story days and weeks ahead. No, haven't heard the end of this.

No, it's not that. It'll be interesting to see if Corey is able to rehabilitate his image. And he's playing well. I mean, as a guy that once upon a time was the MVP of the league and a 40 and 50 goal scorer type of player in Anaheim, there was use for him as Tampa Bay found out and Sammy did through those Leaf losses. I don't know a ton about what's going on or his situation.

Actually, I know nothing about him personally, but I expect to see him in the NHL this season. Yeah, I wouldn't be stunned by that development. Okay, all right. Let's focus on the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Seattle Kraken. Okay. They get set to do battle. Leafs coming off, of course, a shootout win against the Florida Panthers.

A win? A win. One of those that didn't exactly feel like it. Um, as I mentioned earlier, Thursday's my chance to write an article for the Toronto Star. This one I focused a little bit on the lack of grit or snot that I thought was missing off of a team that beat you bad in the second round and a missed opportunity.

But this one I kind of focused a little bit on the core four. And not that I'm looking for a guy like Austin Matthews to turn himself into a Mark Messier or someone of my generation. But when I did see him hit Nikola in the third period, it did remind me that he's a big, strong guy, and it would be nice every once in a while if Leaf fans got a side of that

that I can kind of go hand-in-hand with the scoring, especially when there is a lack of scoring, JB. You know I can't read an article like that without preparing some sort of argument for us to discuss. is a lack of scoring jb yeah you know i can't read an article like that without like preparing some sort of argument for us to discuss you know that's like not it's just not the show my comments they've done it already oh yeah yeah including like why do you want a guy like that to get hurt and the risk of all of that and he doesn't have anything to prove to us he's supposed to score goals and that's it yeah and so that isn't where i would come at it from it's that

you know they they lost to the florida panthers last year as did the boston bruins as did the carolina hurricanes you know very good team some of them with varying degrees of physicality florida was red hot but the leafs with the very same people you're talking about also beat tampa bay last year and you know out there is you, was that line still together? It was Maroon, Perry, and Belmar, right? It was sort of their physical line. Tampa had a reputation as sort of a gritty, edgy team, and the Leafs found their way through a series like that.

And so it takes me to a team like the Penguins when they're winning cups with Crosby and Malkin and Kessel at the core and the back ends, Ole Mata and Brian Dumoulin and whatever. And just that I don't think that being the way you're talking about is like the only way. And I don't think it's ever going to be the Leafs way. I don't think these guys are going to change who they are.

If they don't change who they are somewhat, and again, we're not talking about fighting. We're not talking about burying somebody into the boards. But if they don't show a different side to them that looks a little edgier, then are we just looking forward to the same results? Well, you mentioned the Penguins there. And look at Sid.

Anytime anyone goes near him with the puck he is extremely mad that it's not on his stick and he's hacking he's whack and he's in he's in people's face yeah gino malkin's wires can cross with the best of them chris letang is a snap show at times like all these guys on all these other teams seem to have it. They seem to have it, Sammy, and they seem to be able to naturally, with the confines of the game that night, fall in rather easily to confrontation. Yeah. And the one thing that I wanted to stress in my article today is their nature is not confrontational.

It's actually at times it looks to avoid it. Did you mention to me, and I don't remember this quite like you do maybe, that Tuesday night there was a situation where Austin... I didn't want to bring it up. No, please bring it up. Well, I tweeted it because it was sour. And I didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want to chum the waters yesterday and pile too hard.

But I just, you know, the charot thing from the first round against the Habs where he's getting grabbed from behind, he's grinning. Last, on Tuesday night, there's a scrum beside the net. It's like he's grinning. It's almost like there's this, like, sense that he's too cool for it or something. That just drives me crazy.

To me, it's just the lack of the fire inside of you to say, no, you're not going to do that to me. And that's more natural to 95% of guys. But Austin seems to want to go the other way. As someone wired like Matthews, personally, I kind of feel like I have an understanding for some of that. And I think the Matthew Sherratt thing has been sort of like, what do you call it?

Retconned, like revisionist history on, if they win that game or that series. Yeah, but they didn't. No, I understand they didn't. They didn't. But it gets painted as, first off, they didn't lose to Montreal because they didn't fight Ben Sherratt in game two or whatever.

But it gets painted as like, you know, couldn't be brought down to their level. You're the better team. Why are you getting in the mud? You're above them. That's the whole thing, right? Is that you just, you don't play their game. You're Austin Matthews.

You don't have to deal with those guys. But we don't know what Austin's game is to help win when it matters most yes we do what is it he scores he gets points but what happens when he doesn't score do you let the same as most other scorers i imagine but i know you want to have another element there we're talking about your best player on the team yeah right yes so So you're telling me that Austin is a one-dimensional player. He's either scoring goals to be the best in the league or there's not much else. No, because I think he does lots else.

I think he's a great takeaway player. Takes the body, wins pucks back. He's high still in the takeaway stuff. And in years past okay my pushback to you last year or any other year when you say that is that like his defensive game is still elite and i don't think it's necessarily this year and same this i don't know if the numbers may be wrong but to my eye test it doesn't it hasn't felt the same austin their defense we've discussed over the last year and a good part of this year that there are a lot of games when you don't notice Austin

like you have in years past. For sure. Okay? Take away back-to-back hat tricks, and those numbers are eerily similar as last year's. And it's the part where when he's not scoring i i don't see enough takeaways i don't see enough great defensive plays lately i you know i i have had my concerns this season with you know that he does look a lot like 40 goal matthews of last year for the past

i think twice this year he's gone seven or eight game stretches uh with no even strength goal you know i think he's seven or eight games now uh with no even strength goal you know i think he's seven or i think he's eight games now with no five on five goal you know and that's that's not great you know it's not what you wanted with a guy who's supposed to be leading the charge that to me is a totally fair criticism and i think he's getting less shots but those are like offensive criticisms you know when i guess i just feel like people around great players can provide things that the great players don't and i always go back to phil kessel winning his cup so never thought ah not a guy to win a cup with jack eichel winning a cup is jack eichel tough is he engaged is he whatever no but he was surrounded by guys who were at the least just feel like a team that

is going to have to be surrounded by them because the core isn't it. They've never had tough guys in their line that are going to be able to play with them. Mark Stone, that type of toughness. Ryan O'Reilly was that. A guy who played the net fronts and played through things. For me, it's not even I don't even label it toughness

first. It's an edge. Just an edge. I get it and I agree. It would be nice i agree and it would be really nice to see and i think it's missing out of the lineup right now wouldn't you feel like as you get older you would just want to say to some people like i'm awesome you can't treat me like that i'm austin matthews like you have a couple i wish he would fight for himself i wish he would battle for himself more yeah i get and again i don't want him to turn into anything he's not but i only say this because you went up against the team that knocked you out in the second round and you know it's not

it's not mark messier i'm looking for you to turn yourself into but maybe a little bit more uh kopitar maybe a little more uh jonathan taves at the height of his career, maybe more like Barkov. Barkov and Kopitar combined for like nine pims per year. But they're heavy guys that just find a way to wear you down. Austin's not wearing anybody down. I watched the Moose hit on Medano again after i wrote after her articles oh my god that is so bad and it just and you can't do that it's one thing to ask ryan reeves to go finish a check or bertuzzi but when you see your best players kind of getting out of their comfort

zone a little bit it guilts the rest of the team. Yeah. And it lifts the rest of the team. And if the core four are missing that out of their lineup, it gets harder for the Bertuzzi's and the Reeves and the Max Domi's to go out there and carry that on their own. But we're also here having this conversation because the other three members of the four-person core have no chance to be that person none like Tavares is not going he does not big enough or strong enough it is just not an option for John Tavares Willie Nylander is not it's not in his DNA he is a cool calm collected guy and mitch probably just isn't

strong enough no that's that's yeah he's the he's the least guy that's gonna go out there and and is not gonna get in anyone's face so you know we sit here and go the core four isn't tough enough matt and point at matthews how big's the only one you can do it how big's kucherov yeah we're talking about that like natural edge he's a mean person that's what i mean he's a meanie the the true for me like if you're looking at this because leaf fans have begged for years to have players half as skilled as the four guys that are at the top of the lease line yeah it's like but they're also begging for half of the thing is wendell clark or doug gilmore we'll just go out there and say uh no not on my watch i don't care the curse is is that all four of the guys that they have in the roster are wired the exact same

way well that they're wired the exact same way they're all not edgy guys which is crazy in the world of hot four superstars that are wired the exact same way and they are can you get to a point where as a team you go okay this is what they are and that's just the way it is how do we build around that to still be something okay okay or you say that's the way it is and we got to change something how about changing something instead of building around it? Because I think five or six years is enough for you to say that I'm not building around it. I think it's enough for you to say. It's enough for me to say. They haven't said it. They think you can.

They obviously, if Shanahan and Tree living here, one of the two of them would say, we obviously think you can. They're still here. But the Shani part of it to me is just like. Shani, you were the guy. I watched you play hockey. You were bludgeoning people on the way to the net. 600 goals in a million penalty minutes. Like you were the guy that was not that.

It must make him crazy. It must make him crazy watching this. I don't know. Like, you know, we played against each other. We know each other. You know, we've had a beer together. Probably not since the show started. I just don't know if that's true or not.

Yeah. Because, you know, if he is this old school guy that still lived it and won based on what you're telling me, that's not necessarily a guy that would have gone hired a relative unknown named Kyle Dubas. He was thinking outside the box. People can change. No, 100%.

So maybe he's just changed. Maybe. I think a lot of people thought, I don't know what it was, like maybe out of 2012, 13 or something, that like speed and skill started to take over the game, right? Like it got really fast. Skill got really elevated. And it felt like if you could get ahead of that

and be the skilliest, fastest team, and I think he may be one of the guys who bought into that was the way the game is going. We've seen the Blues win and you know a pretty heavy capital it goes and you have to be like on the right zag but i do think that there is like this coming acceptance that like the nhl is never going to be a league where toughness doesn't matter it's still hockey it's still hockey and you're fighting for space so florida tuesday night back it can be tough to accept that what you thought was wrong.

Ottawa took a strip off of them, and they still came in and absolutely dominated that first period. And how the Leafs, well, Joseph Wall, weren't down 3-0. Thank you, Joseph. Whenever you're in trouble, you call JW. All right, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Austin Matthews because he was asked about it.

Clip three. We've talked enough about these guys. I think that they're trying to find it, trying to find that balance of producing and doing what they do best and be a difference maker offensively for the group, but also recognizing that there's a process they need to work through to earn those looks and earn those opportunities

and work their way through it. So I think, you know, he, like Mitch that we've talked about, is similar. And then, you know, even Willie's kind of gone on the other side of it here now, and he's got to kind of work his way back to the same way. And so guys go through this, and the focus has to be our team game and what their role is in our structure and what's required there, and everything else will fall into place.

We're just too good of players for it not to. He does not want to get into any type of pile-on right now, and I don't really blame him. Based on the fact that he lost it on the bench Tuesday night, particularly to Bertuzzi, I don't think he wants to take a storyline and pour gasoline on it. But I do hear what he and they would tell you is what they think is tough, is playing through it, earning those opportunities,

earning your chances. That's the type of thing that they'll tell you they think is, you know, toughness, getting to the net, take the slashes, yada, yada. Where we're talking about something different, which is having... No, we're talking about the exact same thing. We're talking about edge. We're talking about battling through. We're talking the exact same thing.

So you would be fine if it was just net front battles, winning pucks. But just make me notice you. Have an edge and just make me see you when you're not scoring a goal. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, man. Love to see it. Okay.

Let's go to break. Take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to welcome in John Forslund, play-by-play man for the Seattle Kraken NHL on TNT. One of the best there is. He'll help us tee up tonight's contest. Don't go away. We're just warming up on the Real Kipper and Bourne show.

Your daily dose of everything NFL. It's the Fan Checkdown with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. It could be a different look in terms of physicality against the Seattle Kraken. They're a team that I think in a perfect world would have loved to have picked up where they left off

of their first round win against Colorado. Yeah, big playoff win and slow start here, to say the least. Yeah, I think I jumped the gun a little bit on them too. And you pulled in the reins on me. I've been hesitant, but we'll find out from someone who knows. Yeah, someone that has maybe a little bit on them too. And you pulled in the reins on me. I've been hesitant, but we'll find out from someone who knows. Yeah, someone that has maybe a little bit more

of a deeper knowledge of what the Seattle Kraken are all about. Let's welcome in John Forslund, play-by-play man. And he also does an amazing job on NHL TNT style. John, how are you? Thanks for joining us. Hey, boys, let me start with this. You're both assuming way too much about me.

No, not at all. You're just a very humble guy. Yeah. John, what kind of team are the Leafs going to see? We knew that they came off a very physical team in the Florida Panthers and were able to get two points out of that thanks to great goaltending. But Seattle Kraken has a different look. I think one that probably you can call a little inconsistent.

That's fair, Kipper. I mean, we don't know what team we're going to see from night to night, which is the shocking thing about this group, because last season was a perfect storm. You know, they clicked on all cylinders. So many guys had career years. So many guys outperformed their numbers that are expected. They were injury-free.

They were riding a wave where they could outscore their problems in goal, and that worked. This season, it's been a grind. You know, you look at the schedule, number one, this will be game 24. So they've played, on average, two or three more games than everybody else. They've had long trips out east already, three of those. They've had injuries to significant pieces. They'll have another one here tonight with Jaden Short stepping out of the lineup.

So nothing has come together to put them in a position where they can string together really good performances. They've had those. They've beaten some really good teams. They've also faltered against teams that they should have beaten, like Chicago on Tuesday night to kick off this road trip. So it'll be a mixed bag. If they play to their strengths, it'll be structured. It'll be a grinding game. If they play to their strengths, it'll be structured. It'll be a grinding game. It won't be too physical.

And that's basically the way they go about their business. And they have to have scoring balance to be successful because they just don't have the high-end talent to get to game-breaking ability like, say, the Leafs do. Well, don't worry. They have something in common with the Leafs. The Leafs also cannot beat Chicago. So they got that both going for them.

When I think of Seattle, you know, and what makes them effective, there's some quality depth pieces. That line of, is it Tolvanen, Gord, and Bjorkstrand? Is that maybe their most effective line at this point? That's their top line. You know, and even the coaches, Justin, when they lay it out, when they lay out the depth chart, Yanni Gord's line. Yeah. You know, and even the coaches, Justin, when they lay it out, when they lay out the depth chart,

Yanni Gord's line is third. Wenberg's line is second. Veneer's line is first. You know, when I watch this team

and you see who Gord is matched up against, especially at home, he plays against all the top lines. And Bjorkstrand is a co-leader in points with Vince Dunn,

so they both have 19 points. So, if you have your leading scorer on this line, they play in top end situations defensively. To me, that's a top line. And you're right. They've been consistent and they've been consistent since around January 1 of last year. They picked up Tolvanen on waivers in the middle of December from Nashville. They sat him for two weeks. They finally put him in the lineup is one of those situations where, okay, let's try this guy.

And he never left the lineup. And he had 18 goals last year, and 16 of those came with Seattle. And you know what he did in the playoffs. So Gord drives the team. Gord drives the line. But there are also frustrating moments for that group, too. You can see it in their play, especially with Yanni Gord. Yanni Gord, I think he's playing through something,

and it looks like, you know, he's getting a little frustrated the way the team is playing, and sometimes it has an adverse effect, you know what I'm saying, based on the way he plays. He'll take a penalty. He'll do something at the wrong time to hurt himself and the team, which is uncharacteristic. We're talking to John Forslund, play-by-play man for the Seattle Kraken, as they get set to battle the Toronto Maple Leafs down at Scotiabank Arena.

Matty Beneers, Rookie of the Year, prized possession for Seattle. How real is a sophomore jinx with this guy? It's real, and he can only get where we can speculate what's going on here only he understands if he's putting too much pressure on himself if he's allowing a the next contract to get in the way I know they opened up discussions in the summer and it was probably too rich for the team at that time so they just kind kind of cooled it off a bit. I think they're, they're talking a little bit, but, uh, Baniers is pressed, especially in the front end of the center. He wasn't scoring. And what we were seeing out of him was a game that we didn't see last year when he had, you know, uh, pockets of time where he'd go a half dozen games without a

point, his two way game never drifted away. Right. It was It was always, you know, he grew up in Boston, and his idol growing up was Patrice Bergeron. He wants to be that kind of player. Well, he hasn't played that way this year, to be fair. Now, in the last month, it's been better. He made a heck of a defensive play, 200-foot defensive play in Chicago. It triggered a goal for Ty Cartier the other night. That's the type of game

that we're used to seeing in his rookie year that we have not seen on a consistent basis. And because of that, again, he's very important for the Kraken to be relevant last year and get into the postseason and do what they did. You knew at the start of the year, this guy had to be in the conversation for rookie of the year and he won it but his play hasn't backed up you know anything close to that yet and i would say based on the way he's played it's probably just like the team's record so they've gone hand in glove with that john one of the things leafs fans like to do is torture themselves about players who got away uh jared mccann gets picked up in the expansion draft and then goes and scores 40 times for the seattle kraken last year tell us about uh his effectiveness with seattle is he

having a similar season to last year well i think he was with the leafs for 48 hours he has like nine seconds he was here but they had him you could have had alex kerfoot they did they had a chance right all you want is a chance and they had a chance for 48 hours. You know what? He's been fine. I mean, he's been moved around the lineup because Dave Haxtell has been looking for the right combinations and he's a scorer. He's got nine goals. The big part of their power play, he leads the team in shots and he's supposed to because he needs to shoot, you know, that's, that's his game. So he's lived up to what looks like a friendly contract for both sides. You know, they signed him right away in the first year, extended him, and, you know, that's good for him.

So I think they're good with what they get. Will he get near 40? I don't know. You know, again, was that one of those one-offs? You know, if you look at it and you're fair and you're objective with numbers, you'd say that's probably a one-off for him. But he should be a 30-goal guy based on where this team is in terms of his slot and how much ice time he gets in the positions he's put in to succeed.

He should be in the neighborhood of 30 goals, and it looks like he's on his way to that at least. John, it seems like the Leafs might be catching a break tonight jayden schwartz out of the lineup i think uh coach hacksaw said this is not a day-to-day thing uh it's rather tough news on a team that is having trouble putting the puck in the net well he's a leader right and he's a pro's pro and he's been a winner and we know that back in st louis and we we know the type of player he's a leader, right? And he's a pro's pro. And he's been a winner, and we know that back in St. Louis. And we know the type of player he's been since he broke in. And he plays with a lot of character.

He knows his way around. He knows, you know, what he's up against. And he's even been, I'm not going to say out of character physical, but he's been a physical guy on a team when they need a jump start and it doesn't happen enough. There have been situations where they've been, in my opinion, pushed around a little bit this year. That might be something Ron Francis is going to have to address moving forward. And it's Schwartz who has stepped up with a big hit to kind of turn the tide in the game. And he's

not really needed to do that, but he does. So they'll miss him. You know, he has 15 points, and 10 of those points have come on the road. So he's been – and they're good on the road. They were last year. They're 4-4 this year. It's at home where they're puzzling. But he's a big piece of the team.

There's no doubt about it. And they'll put a kid in his spot, Ty Cartier, who's got goals in back-to-back games. He'll slot up in his role tonight. We'll see where it goes next to Wenberg. But, you know, again, with an expansion team like this, there's a little bit more depth, Nicky, than there was in year one. They have a legitimate minor league team that went a long way last year. They're really excited about what they have in terms of prospects

and how they've drafted. So I think the future is is is really good it's just when you take out an nhl or at this stage of the franchise you know what are you replacing it with that's a that's a stretch right now you know it probably is different for seattle this year too with the canucks having a much better season what are your thoughts on the sort of evolution of the pacific division and you know have things gotten harder for seattle as some teams have improved around them? Yeah, I think the division's a lot better, right? I think in the first year after the expansion draft,

it was, well, great place to put a team because it looks like the weaker the four. And it probably was because L.A. wasn't at the level they're at now, but they had a good year two years ago. They had a great year last year. Edmonton, you know, and they're starting to figure it out. And, you know, the way they're playing, you kind of feel that they're going to make a strong push and be there. Calgary, you know, they won the division in year one of the Kraken's existence.

They had a bad year last year. It started with Markstrom, right? He just didn't reach the level he had two years ago with nine shutouts. And so now you look at what it is, and Vegas is Vegas, and you've got the champions in your division. So it's a stronger division. Rick Tockett has done a really good job there, but the key is Thatcher Demko. It's funny how it's been that way in the history of the sport.

A good goalie makes a great coach, right? I mean, that's just the way it works. But Tockett has pushed all the right buttons. They're a hard-working team now, too. And a lot of their indifference with their high-end players seems to be out the window. They're really playing well with JT Miller and Pettersson, the way he's

playing. Of course, Quinn Hughes is off the charts. And Besser is just lighting it up right now. So they've got it all going. But Cockett also knows that he's got to reward guys who do a lot of the grunt work, like a D. Giuseppe and a Dakota Joshua and those players. And that's what I've seen with the Canucks. They have a real good team concept now. And the centerpiece of it all is a core of elite talent that can score.

And if you put a goalie in there, he's going to cover up for any holes they may have on the back end. So they're legitimate. They're really a legitimate team so far from what we've been able to see. John, one more for me before I let you go, and you can get started on that fantastic call of yours tonight between the Leafs and the Kraken. And that is bigger picture for me. Without Vegas' success,

I think we'd be celebrating Seattle's launch into the National Hockey League. But that Vegas team ruined it for you guys. I mean, the comparison now to keep up with the Joneses is phenomenal. It was really bad. I'll tell you where it's a great question because I'll tell you where it really started to crop up, not only with fans and outside media pressure, but within the ranks.

I think as much as Bill Foley made those predictions about his team and playoffs and three, cup and six, whatever he said, and he you know, playoffs and three cup and six, whatever he said, right. And he was right. I think, you know, there is pressure to win in Seattle. A lot of people think that you, you come in and automatically there's, there's this wonderful honeymoon that goes on for years. The tickets are really expensive. The building is beautiful, but you got to get people in there and get them captivated by the NHL, which, you know, there's junior hockey and there's some interest, but there really isn't that vibrant interest that we see now. And then where do you fit in with the Seahawks and the

Mariners and the other teams that are in Seattle? Because there's passionate fans all over the place. It's a tremendous sports city, but you got to earn their trust. And in the first year, boy, it was difficult. And we're still dealing with a COVID hangover. And these players had no way to connect with each other. And they were like lost as I observed them in the first year. That dynamic came together in the second year where the guys could actually connect with each other and they built a real good chemistry. And like I said at the top, everything came together. The key moving forward is this. Vegas, God bless them. They've done a fantastic job. That's obvious. It's what's going to happen in the next five years from now in terms of what Vegas has mortgaged to get to

where they're at, what they have in the stable. And I do know that the Kraken are really passionate about some of these kids they have that are in junior right now. Carson Rakoff, Jagger-Fergus. I mean, look at the junior numbers. These kids are lighting it up. And, you know, and the American League with Shane Wright, who's now developing the right way. Riker Evans, who I think is ready to play in the National Hockey League on defense. He's their second round pick from the first draft. So they have a real good chance with Matty Beneers, Riker Evans,

and Ryan Winterton to go 1-2-3 in their first draft, which is amazing. If you can strike three players out of your first draft like that, and they play, and they play well, and they're kind of a core, that's a good thing. So that's what the hope is. And I know what Ronnie's going to have to do now, Nicky, is he's going to have to kind of navigate what he does with veteran

players, whether they extend or whether he moves them or wherever the Kraken are in and around the trading deadline. That's going to be a very interesting scenario because at some point, the future will be now and they'll be able to execute on all that. Great stuff, John. So appreciate your time

before your big call tonight. Enjoy the game. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, boys. Keep up the great work, okay? Thanks, John. Appreciate it. John Forslund, play-by-play guy.

Seattle Kraken. Yeah. So good stuff there. Yeah, really good stuff. You know, big name, of course, in the hockey world, Shane Wright. Top pick down in the American Hockey League. A lot of people disappointed to see that. But, you know, the more you see the slower starts.

We just talked about Byfield yesterday. Byfield, Lafreniere in New York. And, you know, sometimes they just need a little seasoning. Yeah, and it's not even a lot to ask of like a 18 19 year old to say hey we'll have you in the nhl by 20 or 21 you know it's pretty pretty good deal i think if you're one of those kids go learn to play and hone your craft so um yeah you and i are on the same page with that good to see that you know right's doing well in the american league all right where are we on the same page? On a depleted Toronto Maple Leaf blue line,

Mark Giordano out for foreseeable future. Week to week with a broken finger. Yeah. Can I just say that I think that's the best thing that could happen to Mark? Just let everything else rest up? Oh, absolutely. And in terms of injuries that are tough to come back from, that's fine.

Resting is the best thing for this guy. Resting is the best thing. If you're the Leafs, you've got to say, we don't need you at the height of your playing in November. We need it in March or April. If that guy could hit any type of level that we saw in the first 20 games in April, then the Leafs' blue line just got all that much better.

Mark Giordano must think you have to pay him something if he plays X amount of minutes or something. You've been fighting to keep his minutes down since he's been here. That's actually in Gio's contract. Gio's contract. Kipper has to pay him. Kipper decides. So the pairs then tonight with him out, Riley Brody,

and then you have Lagasin McCabe, Benoit Timmons. I just have to say, Benoit's been very good. I am pleasantly surprised that he's been steady enough where this guy plays the percentages. Sometimes high and hard off the glass is your friend. Yeah, and you know what? He's played 144 NHL games. He's played way more than Lagasin or even Timmons.

He's played in the league, this guy, and he's something the Leafs don't have. Oh, we get the Pump Fate song. Did the audience hear the Pump Fate song? Oh, yeah. It scares me every time. I spook like a horse over here. I get blinders, boys. Every time. Go back to Joseph Wall.

Do we have keep on that? Some surprise, yeah. I'm surprised. Is it a quick one? It's a quick one. Let's hear it. Joseph Wall. Clip four. It just looks confident, comfortable in the net. You know, he hasn't had a dip in either of these two games. It's two good ones in a row,

and we're starting to get in a bit of a rhythm now in terms of our schedule, which we haven't had much of for quite a while, and just sort of makes that that decision somewhat easy there you go yeah i don't uh i can't argue this decision when you've got issues in front of your goaltender that needs cleaning up it's nice to know that he can cover up a few of the things that you need to work on but it does speak to sheldon tries to win every game and there's no like big pitcher focus right about like oh get sammy back into it or whatever let's try and win i'm not sure sammy loves hearing it was an easy decision yeah hey wait but i'm oh yeah all right we're gonna take

a quick break and then we're gonna welcome in brian burke we're gonna get up into plenty with burkey including his thoughts on where this c this Corey Perry story goes from here on in. Our thanks to John Forslund. Teeing up the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Seattle Kraken. The Leafs go for back-to-back wins. We're back after the break. More real Kipper and Bourne.