Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Capitals Clash & Trouba Traded

Episode Date: December 6, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off by reacting to the Rangers trading Jacob Trouba to the Anaheim Ducks, how trading the captain impacts New York's locker room and their next steps. Then, they look ahead to the Leafs' matchup tonight against the Washington Capitals and discuss Jake McCabe's status, Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews sticking together on a line and the schedule picking up. Next, they evaluate Morgan Rielly's play this season. Finally, former NHLer Kris Versteeg (29:32) shares how the Leafs differ from previous years, how they compare to the Cup-winning Blackhawks teams he played for and why they should hold off on a Marner extension until the playoffs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

the kimbrills justin bourne sammy mckee andrew adams yeah who's that sir who's andrew adams that's the guy that's doing the running our board derrick's been all day double a welcome. The Double A batteries in the building. Shake the snake Schultz. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Still plenty of meat on the bone here on a Friday. Off the rails is coming up. The next two hours, Christopher Stieg, two-time Stanley Cup champion, is going to make a rare appearance. I'm excited about that. Are we okay to have him? Because he hangs out with J.D. Bunkus. We had to file some paperwork to make this happen, I think.

No comment. Clearly, Pristig wants the big show. Give it a rest. Give it a rest. No comment. We'll finally get Chris some. Listen, I've been burying my colleagues enough already, so I don't need to do that.

It's all right. I don't need to bury any more colleagues. Just happy to give him the face time that he deserves. That's all. All right. All right. Enough. Good God.

Just kidding, JD. Just kidding. Doug McClain will join us on the National Hour, and that's when things really, really step into the ditch. Yeah. Plenty to talk about, including a trade the new york rangers seems like it's been consumed like the last 24 48 hours on what the rangers are gonna do with some of their big contracts their big boys some of them have no moves yeah jac Jacob Truba had one, but only half the teams at 15,

if I'm not mistaken, and he ends up going to Anaheim. You want to wait for that, I think it's worth the conversation. Yeah, it's worth the chat for sure. Original six team, you know, is about to waive their captain at one point today,

and then he ends up getting traded to the Ducks. Yeah, I think it's worth a quick conversation before we get to the Leafs. All right. What do you think? What do I think? I think, unfortunately, it's the ugly side of business or the game. I understand that players have rights with no moves or limited no trade clauses, you exercise them.

Teams also find different ways to get around them. And that's basically what happened. Just for those that aren't up to speed, the threat was if you don't let us trade you, we'll put you on waivers. That didn't happen as we found out at 2 p.m. that he was not on waivers, which meant he finally agreed to a contract. Or a trade, I'm sorry, with Anaheim.

The waivers thing is crazy and probably a loophole that will eventually get closed in some form of CBA, but to sort of put this in perspective, it sounds like his play was at such a level in the rangers opinion that they would rather have his cap space than have him play for them at all right they just want to free up that space they're ready to just move on from him which is why they traded him for nothing essentially no disrespect to back in anan but like they just wanted the cap space here. It's a little strange, isn't it? That threat of if you have the Ducks on your no-trade or no-move clause, but they waive you, the Ducks can claim you. Basically, if you play badly enough, you don't have a no-move clause.

So, you know, I think there's a lot of, I think this is a very two-sided story in terms of the public, what you see, and what's probably going on behind the scenes with Trouba and that team and the whole thing. But from a public relations standpoint, this is a bit of a nightmare, no? Like having your captain be the captain of the Ranger, like this original since one of the premier franchises in the NHL,

and you're threatening waving your captain to get him to trade, you trade him to the Ducks. I don't know. It just kind of all rubs me the wrong way. I totally agree. And I also agree with people saying, well, this is just business. It's just the business aspect. And a little bit to Sammy's point, yeah, it is,

but it can come across as bad business too. And it's just not about the Rangers and Trouba and their situation, but it's about 20 other guys in the dressing room that are watching this. And so if you've watched in the last, what, three days, four days, that the threat of trading your captain and then the threat of trading your captain and then the threat of trading your most senior guy like

how's it going to make 20 other guys feel in that room? If they're getting pushed out, what does it do for me? How am I going to feel coming to work every day? I think if you're the Rangers isn't that part of what you want to happen here? You want to say that no one is safe,

that everyone is playing for their jobs, and that everyone's a little too fat and happy and comfortable, and that, hey, any of you could be next. It's hard to become the GM of the New York Rangers, one would imagine. You have a job to do. I agree with you that this is not great. You don't want to have

to push this button but if you feel like your team is underperforming enough and he's at the the root of it the only question is is short term or long term how does this help you yeah they play tonight pittsburgh pittsburgh's coming in playing a lot better four in a row i think okay uh is is this is this good for your team to go play tonight or is it just pouring gasoline on a on a flame fire fire i i you know they're so they have 8.6 million in cap space with truba gone um and you know puck pd had tweeted that that means that they will million in cap space with Trouba gone. And, you know, Puck PD had tweeted that that means that they will accrue cap space up to the deadline, which conceivably they could then spend up to $27 million in accrued cap space at the deadline just for this year,

which is a concept I'm not entirely clear on, and I do need to look into that farther. But, like, it feels like rangers are going to have room to acquire players when though when like what do you mean by when because you know you're gonna now go get players like there's no trades there's no there's nothing happening everybody's got a crap uh yeah a cash crunch while a lot of teams showed interest in Truba. They don't anymore. But other teams do. Well, you can take their problems. But it doesn't happen, JB. So your point, though, is that, because you know trades happen in March, or late February, March, so.

Are they going to be significant ones? And what kind of team do you have? And are you still in it? Are you not in it? You just told me that everybody's on. It's maybe a good thing that the team's on eggshells here. Are they going to still hold on to their playoff spot?

Did they not get weaker? Say what you will about Trouba. Are they worse today without Trouba on the blue line? Back in Nainan or whatever his name is, is like a poor man's labooshkin.

So like are you still in a playoff spot by march yeah i mean the answer there is yes because it's just who's going to catch them you know in that metro like they're pretty safe the flyers would be the closest thing to a team that could okay but they're not going anywhere even if they made the playoffs right the rangers yeah i don't know i can't buy well i mean listen they plan on spending this cap space Okay, but they're not going anywhere even if they made the playoffs, right? The Rangers? Yeah. I don't know. Kip, well, I mean, listen, they plan on spending this cap space. They're not going to go into the playoffs without spending Trouba's money here. They opened it up.

You know, in the future, they're going to need it for Shesterkin, presumably, and Lafreniere's money's going out. But if you're going to use it, to my earlier point, who are you trading with? Who's coming in? Like, are you going to go get another? Stop it for a second. Yeah. To my earlier point, who are you trading with? Who's coming in? Like, are you going to go get another? Stop it for a second. Okay. I mean, that name was literally dropped by Larry Brooks. That's not happening.

Okay. Okay. Who are you going to go get? So you have to go find another bottom feeding team and take their money, their player that you think is going to help them right away, and what? Then you send them back what? I mean, what are we talking about here?

Every deadline, the Leafs added Ryan O'Reilly at center two years ago. Good players get traded at the deadline. Why are you acting surprised that good players might get traded? It's that time of year. People make those moves the rangers want to be available for a good player you're you're you're essentially looking at a team that has this just it's not just true by that's the reason why the rangers aren't very good right now yeah i don't know i don't i don't see one trade saving this thing and putting them right back in play yeah do you think they're done i i cannot see them getting back in i i can tell you that

if i was to pick seven teams like we've talked about in the past yeah to contend for stanley cup we would have probably put the rangers in there, but we wouldn't have had them in three or four or five. They would have been at the very bottom of seven teams that could win. Now they're not even close to seven teams. Right. Well, I just don't think that, I think this is a piece of a plan here.

I don't think their plan was, let's get rid of Trouba and then be a bit worse. So let's assume that Kreider's out there in play. Yeah. Right? So does he go to another bottom feeder team and then you end up with a fourth round pick and a fourth line centerman just to get rid of him

or you think you're going to get back Brady Kachuk? Like what world does anybody ever think that they're going to get Brady Kachuk? They're not getting Brady Kachuk. They're not. I understand that fully. But. And I'm with you.

JT Miller? That's an interesting one. Like, I agree with Borny. They're opening up this Cavs base to do something. And to your point, I don't know if they're good enough, regardless of what they do. Like, the way that they've played defensively, everything they've looked like this year. If they didn't have Shusterkin, they'd be down with the Blackhawks and the Ducks. They've really been bad.

But they're not going to stop trying to get good players. I think this is part of it. And I think tonight will tell you a lot. If they just lay an egg after they trade their captain and it's ugly at home against a kind of bad team, it could get ugly with them. Anyways, Leafs?

Leafs. Another rare Friday captain and it's it's ugly at home against a kind of bad team yeah could get ugly with them anyways leafs leafs another talks another uh rare friday night right we had one i think for hall of fame not too many of them yeah but they go back to back washington and pittsburgh this month so it gets uh it gets busy in a hurry here so what what do you got on the Washington Capitals tonight? I mean, this team, they're the first place team in the Metro division here. Red hot. I don't know. I'm curious to see what this Capitals team looks like. Second best team by points percentage in the NHL behind the Minnesota Wild. That's shocking.

Behind the Minnesota Wild, we all predicted. And Similar record with the Leafs, I think, with just one game between them in the win-loss column. So this will be interesting tonight. Let's go to Craig Bruby for our first Friday's Kipper Clipper on the Washington Capitals. Clip four. Yeah, they're a very good team. They score a lot. Good rush team. And, you know, they're a big, team they score a lot good rush team and um you know they're a big heavy team in my opinion like they're gonna four check hard and they're good on the rush and um

it's you know we we had our hands full in there um in that game um i don't expect anything different i know vetchkin played that game but they're still playing real good hockey without him. Okay. Yeah, I mean, he's a lot to like about the way Carberry's got them going. Do they have Jake McCabe tonight back in the lineup? They do not. They do not. They do not. Do we have an update?

We do have an update on it. Okay, let's go to the update and we'll have a conversation on it. Clip 7 on Jake McCabe. You ruled out Jake for today, but is he continuing to feel better? Yeah, I haven't checked today after he skated, so I will, but he's on the ice, so he's going in the right

direction right now. What was the thought process on keeping him out tonight? Because he skated yesterday, skated today, like what was the conversation like? With McCabe? Yeah, like why? Just because he's not ready to play. That's why, like why? Just because he's not ready to play. That's why. That's really it.

He's not ready to play. It's concerning. All right, well, I don't know. You waited three and a half weeks for Matthews on a day-to-day for three weeks. Like, this is the way it is now with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, like I get the, so you think it's just them being like over cautious on something that maybe not not a big deal or yeah the player is being overly protective of him of his services and his and being 100 yeah i mean you get a puck to this region of your humanity and then have headaches to the

point where you feel like you can't play you know those sort of things do concern me that doesn't feel like the type of thing that's like you know you just shake it off no big deal that's a big deal i think uh i've been heaping praise on the berube era of toronto of toronto maple leaves hockey yeah the one part of the this era of leaves hockey I will not be heaping praise on is the lying to the fans and media. Okay. No one is lying. They lied about Austin Matthews for three weeks. They're like, oh, yeah, he's fine.

They didn't know he was going to be out for three weeks. I think they didn't. You think three weeks ago they said, okay, he's out three weeks, but let's tell Sammy it's day-to-day. I do believe that. Okay, all right. I think, were they more clear last year? Maybe it's just something I didn't think of.

But when you hear day-to-day, he's fine. Every guy is fine. Every guy that has been hurt, according to Berube, the next time, yeah, they're fine. They're fine. He's fine. No problems. It's like, why?

Every guy has been hurt in the lineup that missed half. You know, like, think of all the guys they've missed. I do wonder if they had some pre-year meeting where they were like, all right, everyone who we think is ready to come back from injury, we're going to give one more game. Just give them the one extra game just to make sure. It feels that way. Yeah.

But they're fine. Everyone's fine. He's got hit in the ear with a puck. He's fine. They're in the lineup. They keep winning anyways. So don't worry about's got hit in the ear with a puck. He's fine. In the lineup, they keep winning anyways. So don't worry about it. It doesn't matter who they play.

Right? I think of all the guys that have gone outside of Austin Matthews, McCabe is a concerning one. He is a key cog to the defense core. And you want him feeling right. You know how long concussions can linger and how they affect play or whatever? Nobody's used that word yet. Well, no, but I mean, he got hit in the temple with a puck, so. And he's been okay one day, okay not the other.

I don't mean to be our Dr. Jason Smith that probably got a little bit of a concussion, but I just, I don't know. You just got to go back to my dad's era and just call it like, ah, he's got his bell rung. Get him back out there. Cobwebs. Cobwebs.

Shake the cobwebs off. Send him back out. No problem. But no, it's been a little weird the way they've handled it. I don't have a lot of nitpicks, but that is one of the things that's kind of driven me crazy about the Leafs so far this year. All right. Sounds like he's going to be leaving Marner and Matthews together.

Why don't we listen to clip one and see what he has to say. Clip one. together um why don't we listen to clip one and see what he has to say clip one the way they ended up last game you know i think we start that way tonight that's i mean um you know you change things up in game sometimes and it works so yeah you stick with it for a bit and see how it goes okay I'm just interested to see how long this is. Is this just the rest of the year now? Well, as they catch on fire,

it'll go as long as they feel like it's a good thing for their hockey club. The bigger question to me is I think the analytics suggest that Tavares and Nylander are much less successful, right? That sometimes it's a wash with them where it's like one goal for,

one goal against. I think they were worse than that last year, maybe just a goal or two below 50% when they were on the ice, which is baffling, right? Like given their talent and the money they make and all that. Yeah, I don't need analytics to tell you that those two

have never been great together. Yeah. It's just, that is why this is, it's a flawed thing to go back to Willie, to go back to Matthews and Marners. Maybe it's not

if you just went to Nylander on a third line or on his own line or something different. But like, if the product of putting Marners in. Austin wants to get going

and he calls, he needs, I told you how I feel. Like, you go and get your best player. It's like, if McDavid's struggling, he's like, give me Leon back. It's just the way it works with. When does McDavid struggle? One-two punch. Four points. Yeah, I know.

It was unbelievable. But no, you're right. But the thing is, the byproduct of putting Marner and Matthews together usually means Tavares and Willie together, which isn't the best, I don't think, output of their skills and their lines. I think it's a necessary evil to have those two together, but it is what it is. Robertson, Minton, Lawrence.

Grabenkin, Dewar, Reeves is your bottom six tonight. Yeah. And looks like, I assume Myers is still in, yeah, still playing with Morgan Riley, OEL, Tanev, Benoit, Timmons tonight. You want to talk about Connor Dewar? You want Minton? I want to talk about the backs to backs. How about that?

You know, your thought on all this hockey, you know, is this good for the Leafs, how to handle it? You know, a lot of... Yeah, I think they got kind of screwed over schedule wise yeah yeah amazon is that related to that sure just so they can be on a bunch of mondays sort of thing they wanted them they wanted them on mondays yeah okay um not only that they they pushed Amazon pushed that when we don't have the Leafs, we don't compete against them, right? So they're either, okay. Like they just had their way.

Oh, so what do you mean? So like the Leafs can't play, like they pushed. They can't play on another Monday that they're on. Wow. That's interesting. you think that actually happened uh yeah i do i do yeah it's good business so there is i think there is one monday that they're on on the same day so they get there they get a canadian matchup amazon 10 p.m But the Leafs are early, and then the game's later for Amazon. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Yeah, so with Four Nations face-off, that little loophole,

certainly there's a lot of, I know we have them on a lot of Wednesdays, so certainly they've got some scheduling complications. They have three back-to-backs this month, as I mentioned. Why don't we listen to Craig Berube, clip three on the back-to-backs this month as i mentioned why don't we listen to craig berube clip three on the back-to-backs so far it's been fine um you know we do have a lot you know we've made some adjustments where we put different guys in the next night and have a little more legs that are fresh um so those are kind of decisions that we've got to keep looking at and going forward is using the bodies that we have them and get some fresh legs in there.

But I think overall, you know, our mindset is, you know, playing smart. I mean, back-to-back games depending on the travel and all that stuff. And, you know, that makes a difference too. But it's just managing the game more than anything for me um that's the most important thing when you're playing back-to-backs they've been good on back-to-backs this year wow listen you just heard him what he said like so far we're okay so i'm not complaining but i'll complain by stand by yeah we if this thing goes south for us on back-to-backs you're gonna hear from me i do like the idea that they're talking about putting in fresh legs like alex

kneelander probably plays saturday night if he doesn't play tonight um i bet you mccabe if mccabe probably comes back if he doesn't i bet refi gets in like i like the idea of down the lineup say all right let's put in somebody who didn't play back-to-back. It just keeps everybody on their toes. Yeah, get the energy, get everyone involved. And it pushes each player to be good when called upon because you don't know when you're going to get your next chance. Yeah. I went through with the Rangers.

You're waiting. Waiting and chomping. Yeah. And when you're in, you're like, I got to play so well that they can't take me out. It's a big difference than going to work every day and feeling like I got my spot waiting for me. Particularly down in the bottom six forwards.

Yeah, I think they're 3-1 in the second game of back-to-backs already this year. They've played well. The only really bad one was the night, remember when we all talked about that Tampa game for three weeks? And then the second night was the one in Columbus where they went down there and got absolutely smoked. 6-2 or 6-1, yeah, it wasn't good.

But, yeah, you look at the schedule for December. It just doesn't stop. So it was interesting to see how they handle it. I'm interested to hear Craig Berube on Morgan Riley. Why did you pick this clip? He got asked about him and he gave a sort of synopsis of what he's been like this year for them. So I just thought it would be a good point

to talk about Riley. I think he's played really well for us. I think he's used to really getting up in the play and he still does. I think he's picking his spots really well with that and defending well. He's done a good job for us, in my opinion. Interesting that he mentioned about him getting up in the play.

Do you think he asked him when he took over to not do it as much? Probably. I imagine so, because they started him with Tanev, so maybe they were thinking, I don't know, maybe play more of a defensive role. But to me, like, when he said that about his decision-making, that when Morgan Rielly is at his best, his decision-making could be his most,

his best sort of attribute in terms of when to jump up, when not to go using his feet like he's really good at but what would you how would you assess his season this year you know it's it's not like i would say give him the jimmy vc treatment and say vanilla because it's just expectations are high for him right so for me it's not that he's been bad and i've said this about other good players in the past when they've struggled but it's the absence of great that makes it noteworthy he makes a lot of money to be their number one D, and he hasn't made a ton of mistakes.

He's been fine, totally fine. But just we haven't seen that top end where he's great for them and a difference maker. And it was more noticeable when he was in years past because everybody was so much worse than him. You think that's what it was? He just stood out as the best of you. And now there's so much depth

and he doesn't have to over push or gamble. And now it's kind of pushed him down in terms of standing out so much. And now he's one of. He's not the guy. Yeah. He's one of guys.

So who's... He's one of. Yeah. Who's the most valuable defenseman in the first 20 games? Chris Tanev. When was the last time you ever picked another defenseman more valuable than Morgan Riley the last 10 years? Yeah another defenseman more valuable than morgan riley the last 10 years yeah it's a great question yeah it's not really happened has it he's that

muzzin had a never no never yeah never he had he had to have been your number one guy or else the team was struggling and that's the difference now sorry he's just down almost two minutes per game this year from last year yeah he's down for two minutes i don't hate that neither do i he's gonna end up with 50 points right 45 50 points which is fine yeah but it does it doesn't need to be 70 right now doesn't need to be the guy with all the weight on his shoulders. So Leafs, very good quarter of a season, right? Yes. And Morgan can't make enough noise to get on Team Canada. Like, if I would have told you the Leafs would have been

at the top of the Atlantic after the quarter, Mark, and I told you that Morgan Rielly was not going to be one of six seven canadians on team canada which you said i don't know so he'd almost have to be wouldn't he i feel like your point is less about morgan riley and how he's played this year and more about in the past you feel like he was overvalued overused overrated even over needed yeah and he felt overvalued, overused, overrated even. Overneeded. Yeah. And he felt it. Overleaned on.

Overleaned on, over, is he a Norris kind of guy? Well, he's a good defenseman. But he's, and he might one day have a career year where he could maybe get some votes for the Norris, but he's not Norris material. And now he's amongst a group with some good depth, and we'll see how good as the season progresses, but he's not needed and counted on every game to do what he thought he needed to do in years past.

So how has that affected the way he's played in your opinion? Has he played the same level he's been at in the past and it's just less noticeable? It's less noticeable. But he's been basically the same player for you? No, he's not as flashy. He doesn't stand out as much. Yeah. And they're winning.

This will go a lot farther for the Toronto Maple Leafs, this Morgan Riley, than the one that we've seen in the past. Yeah. So if we're talking about what's best for the team, then this is the Morgan Riley I want. If we want to talk about how does Morgan look like he's worth seven and a half million every night, now you're kind of pushing the envelope on what he's capable

of doing or not capable of doing he was so good against tampa in the series they won oh yeah like that he was their mvp yeah i mean that was a tremendous run for him so you know i do hope that he has more flashes of i think not just this. He's got potential to get to that spot again, maybe. We'll see how matchups go, too, because Berube now

knows that one of the best shut down pairs in the league is Tanev and McKay. Well, that should open Morgan for more of the top-end stuff, right? We'll see. Now I wonder, you know, in the past we've talked about the Leafs adding a D-man.

You know, interesting to see who Morgan plays with in playoffs. His D-partner is playing for Nashville. You think so? Oh, your Shen is still coming. If you look behind me, that jersey has a two on it you know i i don't mind i think morgan is is doing everything he's supposed to right now and that's help his team win and it does it may come at a cost of not standing out as much as maybe he'd like to being flashing enough to make a Team Canada,

but at this point of his career, doesn't care about Team Canada compared to what's at stake for the Toronto Maple Leafs. This guy to me is like, he's the perfect Leaf. I mean, do you ever hear him complain? You know, they're going to five forwards, or they go to OEL, or they go to Rasmus Sandin, or whoever it is on the power play.

Never once do you see him gripe or pout or drag his lip or bad body language. He just plays. I appreciate that. I never really thought he was a team. Canada. Canada. That was an ambitious thought. Canada's got a lot of good defensemen, boys.

A lot of good defensemen in Canada. It's a tough nut to crack. It is. Anyways, we should go for a first league. When we come back, two-time Stanley Cup A lot of good defense in the game. It's a tough nut to crack. It is. That blue line. Anyways, we should go for Versteeg. Okay. When we come back, two-time Stanley Cup champion. Not just one, two. Christopher Steeg will join us. More Real Kipper and Bourne after the break.

Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunkers Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Kiprios, Justin Bourne,

Samuel McKee, Andrew Adams. He's doing a hell of a job on a crazy Friday. And Jake, you as well, buddy. You as well. Okay, let's welcome him in. As I said before, two-time Stanley Cup champion. And I'm just so grateful to J.D. Bunkus for allowing us to have you on our show. So let's just start there. You work with him fairly regularly. How do you do it? How do you do it? Honestly, I was waiting for this question and he still doesn't know I'm coming on this show yet. Once he sees this, I'm going to get see this i'm gonna get a very angry text message but nothing nothing new with a petty guy like jay

well tremendous insight on the toronto maple leafs and now you get to share it on our show so we're thankful for that uh in terms of what you saw what you expected at the beginning of the season the training camp new coach coach, new attitude. Here we are past the quarter mark. What's your overall assessment, Chris? Yeah, it was interesting because when you look at last year's team and what I saw, I thought at the start of the year was pretty similar about just stacking two lines. Obviously, they changed stylistically to what they did

previously but they didn't really change much until the injuries took place and they were kind of forced into a situation to see what their depth has to see how their top players that are in the lineup play with depth so i don't think i really saw the true toronto maple leafs until all those injuries happened when you could see what their depth could do and how their top guys could play. And then what I thought that happened, or what happened then, is those young guys came into the lineup and almost showed the older guys, this is how Craig Bruby wants to play. So I am now interested to see when the older guys get back in the lineup, are they willing to buy in to the real Craig Ruby style hockey which the young guys have kind of laid the groundwork Steger thanks for joining us and I do want to ask you about the clever app a little bit before we let you go today but before

I do that um I you know you saw the evolution of the Chicago Blackhawks and they're great players and what they had to do with their skill set to become champions and you being a part of that as well are there lessons that the uh toronto maple leafs great players can learn from the evolution you saw the the top guys on the blackhawks go through the the biggest thing the top guys on the chicago blackhawks had to understand is you're not going to get 100 points on a stanley cup winning team you're not going to always get 120 points from your top guys. Those are just things that Patrick King, you look at when we won the Stanley Cup, 88 points one year,

82 points the next year. These guys were willing to sacrifice points, understanding that other guys had to get involved into the game. So the biggest thing, I look back on my time, and then when I look at the Toronto Maple Leafs, and I look at other top teams, the top teams, top guys sacrifice. They sacrifice their point total. So when I look at the Toronto Maple Leafs, that's why it's not important to see guys get 70 goals. I mean,

it's important for the game and building the game, but to me, it's not important to winning a championship. William Nylander, Mitch Marner, Austin Matthews may have to play on a third line, may have to get other guys going. I know it sounds crazy. That's what I would do. You have to be willing to sacrifice your point totals. You have to be willing to sacrifice maybe individual awards in order to win a stanley cup and those top guys in the chicago blackhawks every single guy i played with were guys that sacrificed whether it was on the ice or off the ice or ego wise every single day we're talking to christopher steve two-time stanley cup champion and creator of clever clever app which we're going to get into it yeah we're going to get into it uh before we let you go but

i just want to stay with the comparison of your stanley cup champion team in chicago and caves and uh taves and cane and can can the leafs turn matthews and marner into that and where is nylander and all of this but is that where it needs to head for you yeah so i agree i think it needs so actually if you look at the first stanley cup in 2010 tase and kane predominantly played together but they were young guys once the salary cap got too high and guys had to leave you had to split tase and kane up to carry their own lines that's that was a big piece of their evolution is having to split those two guys up they'd still get their power play looks and power play time together and then if you're looking at the

kneelanders and all these other guys you have patrick sharp who could carry a line you have you know in the one year dustin bufflin could carry a line you had guys like david boland and certain guys underneath but the thing with our stanley cup teams in chicago is you would look at the ice time some nights and tase would have 18 minutes Kane would have 18 minutes and Dave Boland would have 19 or 20 it just really depended on the matchups Q wanted to see and the coaching staff wanted to see and those guys were bought in and understood that some nights you weren't a guy going you weren't maybe on the power play or maybe he wasn't going to start you on the power play or he wasn't going to line match you at certain moments so when i look at the evolution of the leafs the biggest and i feel the last piece especially in a terrible atlantic division i

hate to say it there's not many good teams florida i think is right to be picking but i think the last piece to this team is the buy-in and the willingness to give up in order to get. And if I look at the Leafs team, I think that's it. Their top guys are unbelievable players, but they're going to have to sacrifice either minutes, what line they play with, point totals. Because, again, I look at the East even. It's ripe for the picking by these guys. They're a great team, but those top guys are going to have to buy in in order to make it work do you think you have to play a certain way to have success in the playoffs like you know everyone always talks about defense wins championships does it have to be that way or

are there different ways to go about it i'm sure you saw uh different style teams have success along the way but you know they usually had good defending in common yeah good defending is a big thing but you just got to be able to beat teams every single way you got to be able to grind them down low you got to get pucks out of the zone fast you have to kill penalties pp to me at times isn't is an interesting stat in the playoffs you've seen teams in the past not have a great pp but you're five on five play of how quick you got to get the puck up the ice how much you got to grind in the up the ice how much you got to grind in the zone and then also turn shifts over sometimes i watch the leafs or i watch certain

teams that maybe haven't made that hurdle they get into the zone they extend their shift for a minute minute and 10 seconds they're not getting off the ice that's part of the sacrifice piece that i was talking to you about but those type of shifts in a Stanley Cup playoff series in long ones getting turnover on your line changes and understanding sometimes in a matchup when a coach does want you on the ice and doesn't you have to get off the ice in in case so but that's a buy-in from the team and the guys in that situation Chris I gotta ask you about the Marner situation because we know everybody's got one, right? An opinion on this and it's either get him signed now, no wait for the playoffs, get him signed now at X amount and no more.

Give him whatever he wants. Like, where do you see this from your view and how it plays out or how you would play it out yeah so from from the start of the year either in the camp if he's got to go or he's got to stay i've always liked mitch being a part of this team i think he is an important part of this team depending on the salary cap that he's coming in at i've always said if he's the 13 14 million dollar guy i think it's hard to make him that guy on this team if he's willing to sacrifice some dollars maybe sacrifice at ice time where he is in the lineup at times depending on a playoff series and stuff like that he's an integral part to this team now i don't know where it's

going to go i don't think i would end up whether i'm in mitch's camp or in the leafs camp right now i don't think you do the deal i mean you look you look at history of Nylander, you look at the history of some guys doing deals and then maybe they cool off and also getting a little hot and heavy in regular season. We need to see, I think, what Mitch can do in the playoffs. I think he can do it. I think the way he needs to play at times needs to change a little bit in the playoffs.

That's not to say he can't do it. But if I was the Toronto Maple Leafs, I'd definitely hold off a little bit longer see how this turns out over the year and also for mitch it's a good thing if he holds out and he goes off for 100 points this year he's going to get paid as well it might not be as good for the leafs but i think you need to see how this whole situation works out i mean this has been eight years now of asking for playoff success from guys you You need to see if this actually is the year that they turn it up and get the job done before I think anything gets done.

Did you want to follow on that? No, no, I'm good. Jacob Trubel got traded today. Not sure if you saw that. Kind of a big deal in the NHL. Yeah. You know, what are your thoughts on guys getting dealt who have no move clauses and organizations going to guys

who have these deals and saying, we just don't want you anymore. First off, Barney, you look exactly like my brother. This is so strange. You've actually said that before. Very weird. It's crazy. Yeah. So I just think the Rangers are a disaster straight up. Like you, you send out,

you basically leak it that you're going to get rid of Crider and then you're going to get rid of Truba. And then all of a sudden it's like, let's see if it gives them a shot in the arm, but now they got to back it up. They had to back it up because it obviously didn't give the team a shot in the arm. So jury can't look weak in this situation.

That's how I kind of see it. So he's like, well, I got to get rid of one or the other. Why would I get rid of Crider? He's one of my most valuable forwards that does everything and comes to play in the playoffs so I just think overall the Rangers are a disaster right now and I think how they go about their business I think structurally they're a disaster but when it

comes to a player specifically and I mean I've had a no move so when I was moved I was moved to the Hawks and they were obviously on my no move list um and i'm i'm a pigeon compared to these guys so i'm my no move list wasn't as big but when you are when you're looking at guys i would assume going into a situation of like jake true but how much he's given to the organization the captain and they're asking you to now go to it's anaheim correct i just saw yeah yeah you're asking him to go to anaheim i mean that's probably got to be a hard hard uh conversation for jake and then i'm sure he's just sitting there like how much more crap can i take right like i'm the captain of this team you're leaking stuff about me so i think there's some unprofessionalism there especially from the new york rangers side for jake but as a player those things are tough man I mean you're put in a situation where

you're doing whatever it takes for a team they obviously don't want you in that situation anymore they think you're a problem within that team and hey we all have egos we have big egos and that's why these players are where they are is because of that so when someone chips away at that that hurts a lot so I don't envy for what jake's going through i also don't like how the new york rangers have handled it and i think overall like i said across the board they're just a disaster the other thing too is we we spoke of this earlier steger and maybe you can speak to this as well that you know once you get past jacob's out of the room and and you and you move on for me it's always always about what does it tell the rest of the team?

So to your point, you've got some names out there. The most recent one is Kreider. He's the most senior guy. Your captain just got booted out to the curb here. How does that leave 20 other guys in their mindset as they go and play the pittsburgh penguins tonight well they're they're clearly looking at all options besides firing a coach in order to make their team turn around that that's what it tells me and as a team obviously

if if you're not ready to go you might be the next guy out the door but can you play under those circumstances is that a good thing or is that everybody on eggshells? Well, again, if they don't fix structurally or stylistically what they're going to do, it doesn't matter who they bring into their team. They don't play hockey the right way in order to win a Stanley Cup playoffs. They don't have, I don't think they have the right guys and right situations in order to go win a bunch of rounds in the Stanley Cup playoffs. If you're playing this 1-3-1, which LaVey does at times, or if you're playing these man-on-man defense,

if you don't have the guys willing to defend in isolated situations all over the ice, and you don't have these great big D-men who can isolate guys on the ice, it doesn't matter who you bring in so for these players i think they're just up against it because first off the the man or the gm calls them out in the president or they leak it and now these guys are in the room trying to reel and figure out how am i going to go play a hockey game tonight yes you can play in that because you're a professional are you probably going to get the best always out of guys i doubt it but unless stylistically they change nothing's going to change i think they're a good enough team to meddle through the regular season getting the playoffs but to win a to win a stanley cup i think there's there's a few things that got to change there so you're talking laviolette here have you ever seen a coach change the system

within a year it'd be like this isn't working with our personnel we're going to try something different now i played for peter aliot he's a great coach okay he's a great motivator but if i'm looking at the new york rangers i'm looking clearly at peter and how they're being coached at the moment stylistically you're putting your team who already has a lot of offensive guys not much i would say attention to deep detail on the defensive end and you're putting him into isolated situations all over the ice to defend you're not setting your team up for success so i think if i'm looking at the blame right now partially and and do with uh maybe how it's handled at the top i'm looking at how structurally peter lavio that's deploying the team and, it doesn't matter if you bring another young guy up

from the minors or whatever. If you're putting skilled guys like Panarin one-on-one up top against Makar one night, or you're putting these guys who aren't great defenders into isolated situations all over the ice, I'm looking directly at the coach before I'm looking at any of the players. That's why certain d zones work better right that's why maybe a bit of a zone with a you know just where guys can be in more quadrants because you're trying to protect the guys who are generally not great defenders

if that makes sense it does i do want to ask uh just a little bit so my son is uh eight years old playing house hockey in toronto my wife couldn't be there on the weekend and missed a big goal of his. Tell us about the Clever app, will you? Yeah, so Clever was just a technology for phones and tablets where we were trying to streamline video coaching. So I had a lot of guys, whether they're in the NHL or youth hockey players, trying to get me to look at clips, and it was just about getting a clip, coaching it, drawing on on it and sharing it uh

in an instance so yeah clever is streamlined video coaching technology we've got you know eight nine different uh sports on the platform now and uh it's a new venture and it's been a lot of fun to be a part of steger awesome stuff man thanks for joining us uh and And a big hello from the three of us to J.D. Bunkus for us. Okay. He's not texting me. Tell him sharing is good. Thanks, man. Appreciate your time.

Thanks, man. That is two-time Stanley Cup champion. Chris, for Stieg. Great stuff there. Really good stuff. Some potential breaking news here from uh kevin weeks just drinking just drinking he's saying that somewhere eight year extension somewhere between 11 and a half and 12 trying to soften the blow for ranger fans we had to do it we had to make room for

shesty let's quickly discuss that by a read for first. Who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best thing this holiday season, boys? It's Sportsnet 590, the fans' 50-50 fortune supporting food for kids. Here's what you need to know. We've created a 50-50 lottery where the more money we raise, the more kids we can feed in the GTA, and the more you can win. The current take-home prize is over $522,000, boys. Someone is going to win that jackpot on Thursday, December 19th. If you get your tickets early, there's still one more amazing early bird prize.

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Coldplay. Coldplay. Yeah. At a moment. At a moment. They're like the world's biggest fan for a minute. Are they now? I'm not. Anyway. Win those tickets. Wait a moment. They're like the world's biggest fan for a minute. Are they now?

I'm not. Anyway. Win those tickets. So they needed to move Trouba's money out before they, like this contract doesn't kick in until next season. Yeah. You know, next season, what do you think the Cavs are going to do next year? Is this, hey, everybody, we've got some good news. Don't look over here.

Look at this shiny new thing here. I mean, it's hard to think it's anything other than that. It's insane timing. I mean, you'd have to be, they think we're pretty dumb if they think that it's not a distraction. Or they're just doing good PR. What does Panarin make? He's the highest.

Is he 11.6? Let me find that for you. So the big thing was that I needed to be higher than him. So Kevin Weeks has it between 11.5 and 12. Panarin is... That's a big piece of information. 11.6. 11.6.

11.6. So what's the over-under on... It. 11.6. 11.6. So what's the over-under on? It's 11.7. Probably. 11. 11.75. 11.8. You know, I hate that. Like, I just hate it from a teammate perspective.

I love it. I love it. Why? Of course you love it. Because. It's such an ego me, me, me thing where it's like, I just need to be more. Just more than that guy. But it's an ego me me me thing where it's like i just need to be more just more than that but it's proper it's the way it should work that my turn comes up if i'm more valuable if the cap's

going up then we keep it going we don't go back we don't do favors we don't do discounts we we we act the way the system is supposed to work. And meanwhile, guys like Sidney Crosby, who are trying to win, and, you know, Marshawn, the Bruins all those years. He's holding it back. But that's okay because he's Sid and he can do it. And Connor did it too when he signed. Yeah.

And then you watch the dummies who you saved money for make horrible mistakes for sure and i get it that's my money i get it that is the best point you made right i just gave you money to to make the team better you made it worse yeah so i might as well take the money yeah it just feels petty to me where it's like yeah that's great that's great he can get his 11-7 and he does deserve it he definitely it makes sense but it's so in the future connor mcdavid would say okay if i'm gonna leave half a million dollars then i'm gonna tell you how to spend my half a million dollars so leon didn't leave half a million dollars no i don't know yeah no leon left free agent money. Half a million dollars, my friend. Yeah. Maybe.

14's pretty good. All right. Not bad. Now we take it off the rails. Doug McClain in the next hour. Plus text messages. Yes. We'll read them. Sammy?

Correct. Tons more when we return to Real Kipper and Born.