Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Catching Up With the Factor

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the big story from today with Shane Pinto receiving a 41-game suspension for activities related to sports wagering, if the league got it right and how his lack of contract complicates things. Then, onto the Leafs who head to Dallas to take on the Stars for their biggest test of the young season, Joseph Woll earning the start, when Ilya Samsonov will get another shot and stagnant puck movement on the top line. They are joined by Predators' forward and former Leaf Ryan O'Reilly (26:14), who discusses his upcoming return to Toronto on Saturday, his start in Nashville and reflects on his short stint last year with the Leafs. To close, the guys reflect on O'Reilly's unceremonious exit in the offseason, some encouraging play from Jake McCabe recently and evaluate the bottom six with Pontus Holmberg in for Fraser Minten. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we are right back with the real kipper and born show leaf edition and yes i know for some of you it feels like we never left we're always here for you whenever you need that we are and we're on sportsnet 590 sportsnet 360 and sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. All right, guys. Obviously, we open up our show on the Leaf edition, the Leaf Hour, and we're going to talk all Leafs very soon here, but we may have to go down the 401 to the nation's capital. Oh, no.

To start with what is the biggest story. We'll get Sam out from under the rock that he's been on. Update me, please. Shane Pinto suspended for 41 games for gambling. The NHL statement is the National Hockey League announced today that it has suspended NHL player Shane Pinto for 41 games for activities relating to sports wagering. The league's investigation found no evidence that pinto made any wagers on nhl games the nhl considers this matter closed absent the emergence of new information and will

have no further comments all right let me just open this up a little bit to you guys before we move on to the Leafs and Dallas Stars tonight. Since going, I guess, legal a few years ago with sports betting in our country, in our province, up until maybe this point, any of you guys surprised at this? No, not surprised at this. I mean, i mean it's not not to interrupt you but it kind of still caught me off guard i i sure i was a little stunned by it today yeah i guess it caught it catches you off guard because it's like you know no disrespect to a guy who i think a lot of people like but it's pretty dumb you know like you don't expect people to do dumb things and this is

kind of a dumb thing but we see it in other sports you know football it's happening right now there are people on the sidelines for it um you know historically in sports it's not new whether you go back to pete rose or within hockey kip you talked about it being legalized but you know we have evander kane you know before i think his gambling losses, he had bet $50 million or something. But not suspended. Not suspended. Same with Thomas Vanik. Do you remember Thomas Vanik got caught up in something?

They traded him. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. So there were repercussions, but you're right. Things have changed since the legalization. 41 games, Sammy. Yeah, I would say that I'm surprised it took this long

for something like this to happen. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the amount of talk that there is about gambling and the way it's in bed with all the leagues now and whatever it's happening in other leagues i was surprised that it hadn't happened to somebody in hockey and it did yeah and it's a guy that you know was already in the news for her not signing and then it's just like it's like a perfect storm for

pinto yeah a lot of people still out there going hold on for a second it's legal he didn't gamble on hockey what's the big deal you tell me that's my i mean it's always mine but i'm looking at it from a fan perspective all my buddies gamble everybody in my life i know gamble and you know it's like he's betting on football what bearing does that have i don't know if he was or what he was gambling on yeah but like if he's betting on another sport like i don't know what the right everything that uh i was able to kind of collect today is that for the most part it sounds like the nhl ran the same policy that the n that the nfl has which states that you are not allowed to bet on other sports or you are allowed to bet on other sports, or you are allowed to bet on other sports, but never on team facilities.

So, I mean, I get the concept of that, but I don't know. You're not betting on hockey. Right. You either showed up at a practice or showed up before a game and put a bet on a football game. And that's... Yeah, you're no more informed on that.

That's a no-no for 41 games. Is that what you think happened here? Do you think that it was something like that where he was on team facility? I do. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

I think that's what they got him on. Okay. That he gambled on team facilities. And I i think that's what they got him on okay that he gambled on team facilities and i get it like nobody want no no employer wants their their their workers to come to work and sit around and bet on sports but they also don't want me to eat chocolates and you know like laugh you don't get suspended on my phone but it happens sometimes yeah you know like happens a lot yeah easy i think it's excessive 41 games but it we saw it i think already with four detroit lion players yeah sammy i think they i think it's a pretty clear spot for pinto to be made an example of don't

you think 100 that's where he part of it. Just so you know, he's the first guy that in this new sort of era of gambling with the NHL, where he's gotten caught with something. I have no idea what it is. I'm not going to try to speculate. But it's just an easy one for me to be like, yeah, huge suspension.

If any of you other guys are thinking about doing this, stop thinking about it. That, to me, is why it's so stiff. Don't you think? Yeah, I do. i agree it it's still rather vague to be honest with you yeah it lacks details i agree it lacks details it lacks kind of clarity which opens up way more questions than answers and so you'd prefer them to come out and be outright? There is some speculation out there that there was maybe some link to hockey, and I don't know what it is, but there are rumors out there right now. I don't know what we can call them, speculation, rumors,

and this is not based on definitive information i'm getting but there's a lot of talk about there's a lot of talk about maybe someone else being involved and then maybe a link to hockey could there be more to that see without knowing anything about it that seems far more likely to me than you know he's going on and picking a fantasy team well the team because really he hasn't been at team facilities like the other players have because he's not been under contract so just knowing that it feels more likely to me there's a circuitous bedding i would have liked like more evidence yeah in a statement from the National Hockey League or Ottawa. There wasn't even a statement.

What killed me is, so, you know, Freed's was reporting, I think he broke some of this stuff today. One of the things was that there's 35 games remaining on the suspension because it actually dates back to game one of the season. So he's not under contract. He's not under contract. Yeah, correct. Right?

So you're suspending him. He's no more in the league than I. Right. So you're suspending him. He's no more in the league than I am. Yeah. You're suspending me from the NHL. I'm under contract to play in the league. And that those games count. I was a lifetime band for the NHL. Shouldn't the band start when he signs his contract?

That's a really good point. Yeah. It's like, what are you banned from? You don't have a contract to do this. So it costs them no money but time yes and to be fair we didn't expect him to be out till january or february we expected him the moment ottawa could free up some salary cap that he would have been signed there is money lost thinking that he was going to sign maybe in a couple of weeks or even a month there there's that money i do wonder too you know the reporting now sounds like he's appreciative that

the sins kind of kept this on the low low and that maybe he'll sign just for league minimum or somewhere thereabouts um when he is eligible to come back i do wonder if that cap hit is still prorated for the season we've talked about it on the show before but when nylander signed on december 1st his cap hit of 6.9 actually counted for 10 million plus against the cap as you prorate that over the length of the season so i'm curious to see if that's still relevant here all right uh yeah there's no more news maybe coming down the pike here. Maybe there's not. Pro athlete, don't bet on sports.

Yeah. No, no, no, no. Hold on for a second. Hold on. Hold on. I want to stand up, first of all, for like there's another argument for moral rights that everybody's got an opinion on. Pro sports athletes can bet on pro sports it's legal

they have as much rights as everyone else 100 don't bet on sports the team facility if that's the thing you know you can't do okay your employers made that clear and it is an important distinction you're right because the idea i guess that you couldn't bet on another nhl game is that you might have information the public doesn't you may be more informed on the league or something like that I'm guessing that's why you can't bet on the NHL if you're in the NHL well listen it's a it's that's the slippery slope like the moment the public believes that it's not legit right and these guys are are getting together here. We're done. Our industry's done. So my point is that you wouldn't have any clue about the defensive line of the Detroit Tigers

because you play defense for the Anaheim Ducks. Unless you talk to your buddy. I don't know. Same agent or something? He's a multi-sport agent? I don't know. I don't know. But it's that slippery slope that we're talking about.

But, I mean, it's open. There's commercials every night there's energy towards the legalized betting of pro sports players fall into the trap no different than anyone else i said before it was legal you know people got caught up in the trap i remember a very famous player in the league may have got caught up in the trap once upon a time remember the details of you know some arizona gambling ring once upon a time but people in the nhl have gotten caught up in things all right toronto maple leafs there you go nice segue thank you very much done by you yeah thanks guys uh they play tonight Dallas Stars biggest test by far for the for the season depending on how you feel about the push that they got from Washington albeit one that they maybe dodged a few goals

early in that game to did did they lock it down did they do what they wanted to do to carry momentum into this game tonight with a team that many believe has a really good chance to end up in a Stanley Cup final. Our own Nick Kiprios picked them to win the Stanley Cup. I mean, big, strong, fast, with good goaltending does not sound like the Washington Capitals to me. No, it doesn't sound like the Habs or the Blackhawks. No. Not the Wild.

I am curious to see. So they have all those guys up front. Ropey Hintz, Roupey Hintz, one of the fastest guys in the league. Oh, just a player. You know, Jason Robertson. A mule. He is so good. Pavelski, obviously, and Sagan and Ben and all those guys.

Very good hockey team. I don't think their D outside of Miro Heiskanen is that great. Yeah. But I am curious to see how they hang. Sometimes just one really, really good guy and four big mules around him can get the job done. But I don't think they're doing a lot of chasing, right? Right.

They're leading these games and not having to. Yeah, but I mean even the guys on the blue line. It's not like they're running around. It'll be interesting to see if the Leafs can get a cycle going against that blue line because typically you see big, heavy guys. Yeah, Suter, Hackenpah, Esa Lindell. Get their feet moving. Right?

It is going to be a legitimate test and that i'm looking forward to i think the uh bearing the lead here is that the coach named joseph wall the starter tonight and back-to-back starts whoa which rick wall we kind of knew yeah no i we i think it was on merit it was pushing on merit it was a fine one for him to start, but I think it's more of a statement to put him in there as the other way. Don't you think? Yeah. Yeah, let's go to Sheldon Keefe.

On Joseph Wall starting tonight. He's obviously played extremely well. That's part of it. And the other part probably equally as significant. It just gives us more time for Sammy here. Coming off a day off yesterday. Gets a good workout today. He can get a good practice day tomorrow.

And then get ready for Nashville. So I think it works out well for both guys. So today I had my article come out in the Toronto Star. And it was over the goaltending. I know. People are mad you the goaltending. I know. People are mad you called it a controversy. I know. They want...

Controversy? Dilemma. They want you to solve the language better. They don't like it. They want semantics. And I just blew it right open with, yes. And it didn't start Saturday night when Samsonov led three and four night against Tampa Bay.

This started the moment he left the net in game three versus the Florida Panthers. When you leave, whether or not you think he's hurt or not hurt or whatever the case is, once you leave your net, it's a tough pill sometimes to watch for 19 other guys when when the guy that you think should be in there is not and the wiggle room that joseph wall had without winning that series and coming into this training camp uh has really set him up right now. Yep.

In your article, there's a line, Samsonov, from that moment, Samsonov likely realized he had gone from the hunter a year ago to the hunted this season. But he's chasing hard right now. If that guy doesn't think he's in a dog fight for his net, then he's making a big mistake. Russian Jack Campbell, I love him.

The sun comes up the next day. He loves it. He's unfazed, this guy. I think... So, I was just looking at some of the blowback to your article today, because you said people were mad about it. I guess a controversy would be more of a guy that's

locked in longer term. I don't agree with that. I don't either. I don't either. I don't either. I'm with you. I think it's a full ball. It would be a controversy if Samsonov was making $6 million instead of the 3-2 for you. I mean, he's making a lot more money.

He's still... Who was supposed to be the number one goalie to start this season? Ilya Samsonov. No question. Who doesn't look like a number one goalie right now? Ilya Samsonov. That's the controversy. That's pretty controversial in my opinion.

Yeah, sure. And also, who cares what you're calling it? You get the point. You get the point out there. These two guys are not going how it was supposed to go. And now it's anyone's crease. Joseph Wall's getting the start tonight. Again, Sheldon had no choice here.

No choice. This is a big test against one of the better teams out of the gate. He tapped Wall. And he's going with a goalie that gives him the best chance to win tonight. Yeah. I love that. And that's how it should be until one of them is good enough or bad enough that they either earn it or lose it.

And listen, I'm not sitting here telling you that this thing is over and Samsonov's done yeah we don't know joseph wall and if i don't even know if many leaf fans know this but this guy's battled the injury bug is almost as much as anyone else in the last little while yeah like he needs a long stretch here he needs to stay healthy and he needs to kind of look like what he's looked like the last week and a half yeah no i agree or i don't know in two weeks three weeks he could be back with the marley's you don't know no it's it's very much a bit of a roller coaster right now thank you thank you but you don't know it is up and i'm sorry i'll show But you don't know. It is up and down. Sorry. I'll show myself. I don't feel good about that at all.

But we have Ryan O'Reilly. We have Ryan O'Reilly of the Nashville Predators coming to join us in about 15 minutes. Oh, yeah. We have lots of stuff. I plugged that from Sheldon on the other guys. Do you want to get to a couple of these clips? I'm good. I'm good with Joseph Wall.

I think we're all in agreement, right? Well, how big of a, like, are we measuring these all as big starts for Wall? Like, does he have to, if he goes out there again tonight and he's great, and then it's like, oh, everyone's like, well, he's the starting goal. Is it just the same conversation over and over here? You've got to get Samsonov back in the net, no matter what happens. He's playing Saturday, of course. That's what I mean.

But if he plays well tonight, they beat a really good Dallas Stars team, and they come close, and he's excellent. Yeah. I don't think it's a given Samsonov plays Saturday night against Nashville. He said he started on Saturday. He said that about Samsonov? He did, yeah. He said he started on Saturday.

But then going into next week where you have another run of games, to me it's just like, yeah, yeah. Kind of give two to him, two to Wall. I think in a perfect world he'd like to get Samsonov playing well enough that he can even alternate them. Yeah. Yeah, that would be good. That's the best case scenario for this team.

That's the best case scenario for this team. That's the best case scenario for, listen, if Wall lights it up tonight and stands on his head and does those top spins and he misses the start Saturday, then you're in a position where you watch Samson off Saturday night and if it's worthy of, hey, we're not going to forget about you, and we're not going to go long stretches, then you are in a much better place for the Toronto Maple Leafs, which could mean altering these guys.

I'm going to make a October 26th prediction, and that's that someone not named Wohl or Samsonov plays over nine and a half games for the Leafs this season. You know, Samsonov last year, God, was he ever not almost hurt? Yeah. You know, like limping or dragging a leg or struggling. Like he looked near injured most of last season at times. Wool, as you mentioned, injury prone and never had a real run in the NHL

with the full rigors of being, you know being a 1B, let alone a 1A. You've got Martin Jones in the minors right now who's got a great NHL career behind him. I would not be surprised if it's not so much, is it this guy and this guy splitting it, but one's out, someone's up. It's not fair for goalies, but they get judged differently when they're hurt and um you know it whether or not you it's a it's a definitive injury like oh he's out with a shoulder or he's out with a sprained knee

it's two to four weeks or four to six weeks it doesn't even really matter and then samsonov's case it wasn't like he's out with a shoulder injury or knee injury. He got hit in the head, and he didn't feel comfortable enough to come back in. Okay? And was he concussed? They didn't really say anything, but he just did not feel right to go back in the net. 19 other guys judged that as, hey, you're not there for us. We need you, and you're not there for us you're not we need you and you're not there for us and we are having that conversation about josh norris earlier in the season where it's like

if the team says you're ready the doctors say you're ready why aren't you ready and i don't know if that was norris's case exactly but you do look at your teammates and go if everyone says you can go why aren't you going um just a note for tonight. It was supposed to be the former U.S. under-18 teammates against each other, Wall and Ottinger. Ottinger is not going tonight. It's Wedgwood tonight in the first half of the back-to-back. Not taking the Leafs seriously. They're sending...

They think the Leafs are a joke. They're heading to Edmonton on the second half of back-to-back tomorrow. So, you know, it's the opposite of the Babcock theory. When we used to start, no matter what, it was the starting goal in the first half of the back-to-back. They're going with the backup in the first half theory when marie used to start the no matter what it was the starting goal in the first half of the back-to-back they're going with the backup in the first half against the leafs tonight which is interesting so just one more note uh our good friend mike mckenna has been on the show many times i think last year i don't know do you remember the push hard and

they've got a relationship right they've known each other from uh i don't know the st louis area i guess missouri but he came and he pushed wall hard he said he's the best goalie the leafs have today when this is last year when he was doing yes with and samson on ben matt and if i'm not mistaken he made some kind of comparisons to ottinger yeah and i think that's when i kind of rolled my eyes and said, come on. I'm a lot closer than I was when I heard that comment last season. Joel, two starts this year and we've now compared him to Cary Price and Jake Otten. It's not whether or not he'll ever be those guys. It's just the demeanor.

Yeah. Right? The way he carries himself. Can he be him from like May 1st till June 17th? One time. One time, baby. Like I said, he could be in the minors in two weeks. We don't know.

Hope not. But can we honestly say from this point on, forget about what's between the ears or how tough he is or how long... He is technically the better goalie than Samsonov. He looks cleaner. He looks calmer.

He holds on to a stick. It really bothers you that Samsonov can't, eh? I've got to put some glue on his gloves. Yes, I agree, Kip. I mean, no expert eye here here but i've watched a little hockey in my life and he looks good okay um keep making a comment on uh matthews and martin today that kind of surprised me yeah why don't we just play it let's have all right clip two i wouldn't

say it's executing at the level that that we've we've come to expect from them um it's early obviously but i just think that some of the passing in particular just hasn't quite been crisp and sharp, and execution hasn't been happening. Obviously, we focused a lot on the left winger and who's been with them, but I just think if we just focus on those two guys, I think it hasn't been executing at the level that we'd expect so um they're gonna stay with the both working hard and doing good things defensively but offensively i think there's a lot of plays that in the past are connecting that right now are getting broken up well then that is surprising i yeah but i agree with him yes you know when you

really i think we get lost in the Matthews goal total. But you zoom out, those are like goalie pulled goals and power play goals. And what he's saying and the fact that Austin's got one assist, there is a correlation there. Like that they're not completing passes to each other. Yeah. They're not moving the puck and they're not in sync right now and i just don't know how hard to push back on this idea that austin matthews doesn't move the puck it's just not accurate i don't see chris passing yeah from from austin i i don't i i think

i think at times the biggest thing i see with him is sometimes he just overshoots and the attempts and he becomes predictable and one of the things that hasn't happened for him that is mitch hasn't had the puck as much i told you this the other day that i don't see mitch dangling or making those twists and turns which gets austin even a better position at all yeah i don't so i'm not i'm not telling you that that makes austin a bad centerman right what i'm telling you is that it's it's never been his his strength playmaking i see better playmaking out of tavaris to start this season with nylander than i have in a long time yeah i mean part of this is that those guys look so good you know by comparison it is

fascinating though that at five on five martin matthews haven't connected more it's funny he said we focus so much on the left wing on that spot but he was trying to keep the attention on matthews and marner it's almost to me like he's trying to take the heat off a guy like Bertuzzi who started there and didn't have much success or heat of the fact that he's got Callie Yarncroft on the top line right now. Like it's almost like pile it on the guys we know who can handle it here. Let these guys figure it out on the left side. Because, yeah, I think they could use a little bit of help

and that's part of it too. And, yeah, I totally agree with you you he needs to buy bertuzzi time right now yeah and i mean hopefully having another couple of days a little bit more rest there are some numbers for the leafs that i've dug into that make bertuzzi look great out pretty well like his lines have uh driven the expected goals and you know all the chances and all that but he's just been on really good lines he's been on with matthews marner or tavarez and elander so be hard to have the grades out really well but not sure his contribution to those things should uh hit a break here for ryan o'reilly are we breaking and then coming back with

ryan yeah okay you heard the producer i'm just a mere host here taking direction from Sammy McKee, more real Kipper and born after the break. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The JD bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple,

Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's welcome in our next guest. Guy that knows a thing or two about winning Stanley Cups. Ryan O'Reilly from the Nashville Predators. Ryanyan thanks for joining us man how are you yeah my pleasure i'm doing good how are you guys doing good good um just uh kind of teeing up i know uh for us personally here and on our show we've got uh the leafs in dallas but right around the corner saturday night man you're you're in town. I know 24 games during the regular season isn't a ton, but is this a game that you looked at as soon as the schedule came out?

Is it preferred this early in the season? Would you have liked to come to Toronto a little later? Yeah, it would have been nice to see it a bit later, but no, I'm excited for it obviously uh yeah my time there i think was um you know pretty special and the relationships i have with guys there and staff uh it'll be uh it'll be exciting that way but uh definitely um as you guys know it's a very good team and uh we're gonna have to be at our best uh to pull one out here but i'm looking forward to it though you. You know, you go to Nashville,

Ryan, and things, you're lying, you're having immediate success. I'm sorting some of the stats and stuff, and it looks like, in terms of creating opportunities, the line you're on right now is having a ton of success. Tell us about the early start in Nashville, the guys you're playing with, and what's

working for you. Yeah, obviously it's been great. I'm playing with Parsons and Forsberg. They're two unbelievable players. Parsons is a great young kid coming up and just getting better by the minute. Forsberg's just such an elite talent. The stuff he does with the puck is just unbelievable. Yeah, I think we're aligned.

We're big bodies. We want to put the puck in the right areas and work and create chances from there. So it's, you know, we've got a lot of work left, and we've just got to keep building it. Ryan, are there any similarities between a Forsberg and, say, a Willie Nylander? Obviously right-handed shots, obviously guys that can shoot the puck.

But what else do you see? Yeah, well, both guys, I think there's a lot of similarities. But the thing that jumps out is just that puck protection. Like when they get it, it's so hard to get them off and play. You know, just big bodies, no one will position themselves. It's just like, you know, as you've seen, you know, it's impossible to get the puck back. And when they're going, it's, yeah, they're horses.

Well, he's a guy here, Nylanderer who gets leaned on by Sheldon Keefe from time to time. Tell us about your experience playing for Sheldon. You've had a few coaches in the NHL now. You know, what makes him different from the other coaches you've had in the league? Yeah, he's a brilliant hockey mind. Just the, you know, details put in, you know,

just little chats I've had with him. You know, he sees the game in a very, you know just little chats i've had with him um you know he sees the game in a in a very you know amazing way and and the way he teaches it and expresses it i think it's you know it gets the guys playing a certain way you know in a structure and looking at things in a different way it's that uh yeah and you know my short time there i definitely you know learned a lot and it was a pleasure playing for him ryan just just in terms of uh you know the community and no they have not won a stanley cup but they've been close in a stanley cup final and just i i know it's early but how settled are you there and what have you what have you drawn out of that hockey community in in a short period

of time and you know i mean comparing it to the Mecca of Toronto, I mean, what certainly have you picked up since you've been there? Yeah, it's definitely two different markets, that's for sure. You know, the fan base, too, I think they're definitely very passionate about it here, and they love it. They might not have grown up with a game like every fan in Toronto that knows every inside out of each player and such, but they love it. It's a game that we come to this building.

People are having a great time. They're involved. Every hit, every goal, they're getting behind. It's been awesome. My kid's in every hit, every goal. They're getting behind. It's been awesome. My kid's in hockey here, too. You can see the growth of it. It's obviously 25 years now. You can see how hockey's starting to take off down here.

Hopefully, we can keep it growing. It's been awesome. Ryan, during your time here, obviously you were an important part of a team that finally got over a hump. When you, during your time here, obviously you were an important part of a team that finally got over a hump. When you look at your time here, do you consider it having been disappointing that you guys didn't go farther or a success?

No, I still think disappointing. I think, yeah, a little still upset about getting beat by Florida the way we did. I think the team that we had, obviously I think every guy on that team wanted to take that back and redo it. But they outplayed us. And disappointing because I thought we could have even just gave it a better chance. But that's the way it goes.

Florida, they outplayed us. They deserved to move on. I cherish my time. I think I learned a lot. that's the way it goes. You know, Florida, they'll play this. They deserve to move on. You know, I still, I cherish my time. I know. I think I learned a lot that, you know, the relationships I have,

you know, from that experience, you know, I think I was definitely proud to, you know, get over that first round and move on, but still, you know,

it's, you know, I don't like to dwell on it too much, but yeah, you obviously want to redo that series, but no, it was a great time. You were in a unique situation as an unrestricted free agent.

We all know that Toronto would have loved to have you back. Your decision to go to Nashville, I look at Nashville over the last few years and a team since they went to the final that you always thought that could compete or find a way to get over the hump. Is the feeling that you had when you signed there that this was a team that was still going to go for it, or was there going to be a small transition? And it may take a few years to come back to a Stanley Cup final.

You know, what keyed in on wanting to go to Nashville, besides obviously a contract that you were willing to accept? Yeah, I think we're a lot closer than people think. And, you know, since being here and, you know, with Trotsky, our coaching staff, you know, our players here that I've been very impressed with, their leadership and goaltending, there's so many good pieces here. And I think, you know, we're still, you know, I thought we've had a good start to the season.

Our last game wasn't great, but, you know, we're starting to get more comfortable with the structure and we're starting to, you know, to find it. And when we do, I feel, you know, we're right there with any team. And again, you know, I know it's early. We haven't seen every team out there, but there's so many good things that I'm excited about. I think we can get back to, you know,

being right there and competing for a cup. When you look at this team that you guys are going to be playing on saturday night this toronto maple leafs team how do you feel about the idea that this core needed uh physicality grit whatever added to it you know you you were part of a group that came in at the deadline of jake mccabe and Luke Shin and Lafferty, some more physical players. This year it's Reeves and Bertuzzi and Domi. Do you think this core needs that around it, that grit and toughness? No, absolutely. As you see, I think the deeper you go in the playoffs, that's what you need. It's that physicality, that wearing teams down.

The guys that they've added definitely are going to help. There's so many good pieces over there. There's definitely a team that's going to contend. Obviously, I wish them luck, just not against us. It's definitely great pieces that they added. It's going to be a heck of a battle Saturday.

One more for me. In terms of in your career, you got a chance to play with some great defensemen, winning a Stanley Cup with the likes of Petrangelo. Where's Roman Yossi in all of this? Do we as a league know really how good this guy is? Yeah, I think he's playing in you know like a market like toronto you know he you know he'd be talked about so much more i think he's a little bit

hidden down here but it's it's amazing what he does you know he's you know i feel like his heart rate never gets up over 90 and he's flying around the ice lapping me you know constantly and you know just the the creator that he is. He's always in the play. He's always making these little things and jumping around. It's just constantly moving and creating.

It's so impressive. Hey, Ryan, we really appreciate your time on an off day here. Enjoy your return in Toronto Saturday night. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Ryan.

Just so you know, Kip, they're in Nashville on Saturday. Oh, are they? Yeah. It's all good. Oh, gee, I didn't know that. Oh, it's the end of the, what, five? I texted you. Oh, I missed it.

It's all good. Your phone's making it hard to come back. I thought maybe. Yeah, all right. That's all good. So they're in Nashville. Yeah, same thing. Two teams are playing. Ryan's so polite. He definitely's making it harder to come back. Yeah, all right. That's all good. So they're in Nashville. Yeah, same thing. Ryan's so polite.

He definitely was like, should I say something? What a stupid host. That's why ex-players should not host. David Amber's listening to the show right now, and he's like, yes, yes. My job is to say. Kipper's screwed up. He's going, yes.

As he's doing curls. All right. Just a little follow-up. Yes. As he's doing curls. All right. Just a little follow-up. Yes. On, I'm really surprised that he didn't want to stay in Toronto. I am too. Really, really, that one was like, okay, a guy's coming home. He's towards the latter part of his career.

He's going to love it. And's towards the latter part of his career. He's going to love it. And it just didn't work out that way. So every person, every player in the league that gets towards their end of their career and they go, gosh, it'd be great to go to Toronto, you know, just to play there for a bit at the end of my career. Then they come here again at the end of their career

and everyone goes, boo! Which didn't happen with him no he was he's beloved he guys oh my gosh he played great for so good 24 games they don't win they don't win they don't beat tampa okay without him okay he played great for 24 games i agree with you guys he signed a four-year contract yeah i don't think it is great for your career to come here at the end and get booed and be bad at the end. I'm not saying he's going to be bad or thinks he's going to be bad, but I think he sees this as his last big contract likely.

Which he could have had in Toronto. He could have. Same contract. But look at how John Tavares is getting treated. How he got treated going into this year as like, oh, this guy. And all he does, he's a point for game guy. Can we give somebody a draft pick to eat the money? Yeah, can we get rid of this guy who all he does is score for us?

I think if you're O'Reilly, you're like, I'm at the end of my career. I don't really want to be in Toronto when I lose half a step. I want to lose it in Nashville. And have everyone remember my 24 games in Toronto? My point is similar to the Shen situation, too, where people will look back on that time when he was here and he was beloved. And he gets to leave like George Costanza

after everyone laughed at his joke. Hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. Because, like, go back. He gets traded, what, a week, 10 days before the trade deadline? Yeah. Is someone not having a conversation with Ryan O'Reilly or his agent from the maple leafs going

we're giving up what were they your first uh oh the trade yeah what was it was it was significant more pieces more felino type pieces yeah it's lots because the charity was in there too oh yeah right so like am i am i giving all of this up for a rental or are you coming home ryan where was that conversation because if i knew for one second that that guy was going to walk out the door after 24 regular season games and dude do you know how desperate kyle dubas wanted to win a round ryan o'reilly could have said i'll come play 24 games help to win a round? Ryan O'Reilly could have said, I'll come play 24 games, help you win a round, and then I'm going to physically punch you in the face and leave. And he'd have been like, fine.

Come play for us. Yeah, that makes you not a very good general manager. Everything's great. I'm sorry, but it was too high of a price to pay for a rental. So it was the Blues received Mikhail Abramov, Adam Gaudet, Toronto's first-round pick, Ottawa's third-round pick, Toronto's second-round pick, and St. Louis will also eat... Stop, stop, stop.

You're hurting Leaf Nation, right? They're just like... Is that a first, a second, and a third? I pull the trigger again on that trade. Love that. For a rental. Yep, all day. But they were instrumental players.

Instrumental players. Am I crazy? What are you talking about? I loved his timing. Every year, give up a first rounder for rentals. Yes. Yes. Until what?

Until you win the cup. Until you're in last place. Or you win the cup. Or you're in last place for the next five or seven years. Or the Ducks. Yeah. That's the way. Right now, it's trending

the wrong way in that deal. Another first rounder at the trade deadline? Absolutely. I'm a Sam on that. If they're going to get a top defenseman at the deadline for a first round pick, you are pulling the trigger. That's negligence. You could even get Erasmus and Dean

first at the deadline if you try hard. Giving up top prospects for rentals. What are you trying to do? Kip finish 10th every year? No. Can you try to win the cup? Eventually, you've got to stop, though, because you run out. You just run out. The cupboard's completely dry.

Well, they're getting there. Which is how you end up going, Fraser Minton, is this anything, Meeb? You know, like you're really going on to guys. The good news was Jake McCabe came back. He traded for him. But he had one more year in his contract. Two, right?

Doesn't he have this and this? Maybe you should trade firsts and seconds for guys with more years. Well, this is the thing that is going to have value is the way that the Tampa Bay Lightning got Brandon Hagel on that dirt cheap deal with term and they paid a bunch for it mccabe they ate half his salary and they got two more years so those deals make a lot of sense if you can swing them all right jake mccabe a little better old sam with a little double clutch little can call him B. I was really a big fan of his game last year when it was... When you thought... When it was something new.

When you thought what he was built up to be. Yeah, and the first few games, he's something different, right? He's a different guy in the back end where he's jumping up in the play. He's throwing his weight around. But now that I've seen it happen a lot and the way it went in the playoffs last year where I didn't love him throughout the playoffs a lot and you see the start of this year it's like oh boy all right derrick brandeo clip number three sheldon keith on jake mccabe i think it's been uh i think it's been inconsistent at times very good physical

strong uh times move the puck really well i think he's just really trying to settle into a role with our team, and we're continuing to work with him on that. Mike Van Ryn's working with him every day and talking him through it. At times we just want him to really simplify things and understand what we need from him. At the same time, his skating and his feet get him into really good spots on the ice, so you don't want to take that away from him but at times you know we just want him to get back and settle into his position and

and help us defensively seems to be a yes i almost want to hear that again a little bit more settled with the the lily pad yeah i think it's important that you not ask too much of jake mccabe like want him to get back and settle into his position and help us defensively. There's that, too. It doesn't get that much simpler. Just play defense. What's hard is he can do other things. Like pinching and on the goal line, trying to race back.

In the game against Tampa, I think we talked about this on the Monday, but the game against Tampaa i think we talked about this on the monday but the game against tampa on the short handed and matthews has a puck and he's passing to somebody on the break and i'm like who is that it's like mccabe and on that i'm like mccabe i know what is he doing up there this is the thing is like he's a good skater and he can get up in the play and he can make pinches and he can make hits and he can not figure out which to do when. You know, like, so it's tough to tell a guy, you can do it all, stop doing it. That's your job, Sheldon Keefe. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That is what you're paid for to go, you can do this, but you can't do that. Why? Or even situationally, if we are tied or leading, don't do those things ever. We're just going to eliminate the decision-making for you. If we're chasing the game, green light to go. You know, we might have to make it simpler for them.

I like him as a guy when you're not asking too much of him. When you're the number one shutdown guy against the Florida Panthers in playoffs, tough. You know how I feel about the Leaf defense and what I would do? I'd have the zapper. Dog collars? Yeah, well, let's humanize it a little bit.

Human collars? Yeah, something. Maybe a belt. A belt that zaps them. Okay. Right? Go over the red line. Back, back, back.

Remember the electricity? That's all. Or just yell from the bench i bet you'd win two more games a year if you had a button where you could shock them be like all right defense like just an all right defense button probably get the trick done and really oh god yeah that way or how about this one never been done in the history of the game. Do it again. And you're not moving from the bench. How about that one? Yeah.

That's probably. You can't do that anymore. Doesn't work anymore in 2023, 2024. No negative reinforcement. Only positive reinforcement. You reward him for doing good, not punishment for doing bad. I will bolt you to the bench. Yeah.

Yeah. I think there's some value in that. And I think that's why some teams still value the hardline coaches because that's the last that's the only thing you got that's the shock collar right there it's nice time okay uh any you want talk fraser minton we expect him to be back to junior by the weekend well maybe just send him back to junior here it's a nice time in the okadagon man get back there get into cam loops, close enough. Let's hear how Sheldon feels.

Yeah, we like what Holmberg has brought and how that's changed things, so that's part of it. We've had some guys here that have been sort of nicked up on this trip and kind of day-to-day, or at least they're on the injury report, and we're kind of waiting on their status the next morning. It was the same here again today. And we've kind of gotten through that situation. So there hasn't been an opportunity for Fraser to get back in at this stage.

But, you know, I think there's lots of value in him being around our group here on a trip like this in particular and experience life in the NHL like that. And he's continuing to work with the reps that he does get. He's putting in his time. I think there's great value in that, and he'll be ready if we need him here. Okay. I agree with you. Maybe another day or two of Fantasy Island for him.

Yeah, like me. Right? I'm Frazier Minton. You're Frazier Minton on this show i am i am the fact that i'm sitting here yeah i've tried to send you down to the morning show i have clear waivers overdrive and scoop you up but all right thank you you know he needs to play his 15 17 minutes in junior he needs to try to score goals power play penalty kill he needs all of that now yeah i agree kip just like being in the situations where you're the guy and you're handling the puck and your team's looking to you and you're always on the ice and you feel like

you're better than everyone else and so you take some chances like that to me will make you better i think he's had a great experience being around the team you get to know people the systems you see the strength plan and how the pros take care of themselves we're getting to november now and it's pretty clear he's not a fit in the nhl lineup right now not that he won't be soon but yeah i don't understand why we need to drag this out if everyone's healthy it's probably going to happen soon maybe he gets one more game. Or maybe after they come back from the road trip. You know what?

I bet that's it. I bet they're like, we'll finish out the road trip. He'll do the whole thing and we'll get him back. Yeah, and then they can, closer to them, to what's it called, Coca-Cola Coliseum? They can call somebody up from there, drive down the Gardner. You don't need to send them from Dallas back to Kamloops

and get them back in Canada first. And there is a different, heavier kind of feel with Holmberg. Well, yeah, absolutely. Well, you just trust that he's going to just handle his business. And not that Minton was messing up by any means, but he wasn't winning the puck battles or being able to create or take over. Like Holmberg can have moments when he can get the puck to the right areas. Minton's just not quite ready there yet.

All right. Do we have a couple clips you want to Dallas? Let's look at the opponent tonight. Sheldon on the Dallas Stars. Significant challenges. First off, defensively they do a really good job. Protect their net very well.

Penalty killing is outstanding. And then they got lots of skill and size throughout the lineup, both on forward and defense. So, you know, they're a high-quality team for a reason. So we'll be prepared for that. But, you know, for us it's a great chance to go up against a team that has all those things I just talked about but also has got lots of confidence and is playing extremely well here in the early going.

So a great challenge for us here leading this trip. See, I 100% agree with him. This one has, this game tonight, a win tonight, a solid team effort can carry you for a very long stretch here. It's almost as if a win tonight, a convincing win tonight, could somewhat erase a poor start like that. Yeah, go out against a good team on the road,

middle of a road trip, for sure. The potential is there. I also think typically when we've looked at this Leafs core, when they've come up to these sort of games, that's when you get a good effort. Like it's against Chicago or Montreal where you typically get. Monday night against a crappy team. Never going to be a great game.

Let's see if we can outscore them type of games. Typically we see pretty good games in these sort of moments. So I do have a higher expectation tonight that they're going to give Dallas a tough time. And Dallas has gone out this year. They've beat the Flyers and the Ducks. they have some wins and austin scores 60th in dallas he broke the no he broke the least record broke the leafs record in dallas scored uh his 55th in overtime where like to win it six guys were on his back yeah it was a beautiful goal

well he scored i actually don't remember you don't remember it i remember it was a big night he scored to tie it he scored to tie it. He scored to tie it on the one-timer. And the one-time winner. Was the record breaker. Yeah. And just. Beautiful goals.

That's when you got really excited that he's better than McDavid, I think, after that game. I mean. It's okay, Sammy. One guy's playing, one guy's not. We can have the conversation again if you want. Is he better than that guy watching the game for sure? Listen can fire up that combo anytime you want boys if we do it our national everybody go bring mcdavid to a number two center on the team oh no we're national now i don't want to get up anybody upset all right all right we're gonna take a quick break uh listen a few people

paid the bills around here And then we're back on our national hour On Real Kipper and Bourne Stick around