Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Chemistry on the Clock

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' loss to the Panthers last night, the lack of 'snot,' whether John Klingberg's offensive instincts make up for his defensive lapses, the bottom six without Fraser Minten and David Kämpf regressing defensively. Is it too early to say if the Leafs are better or worse than last season? Afterward, a deep dive into Max Domi's slow start, the pressure on him in Toronto and how he gets back on track. Finally, a look at the Atlantic landscape and if it might be a tougher path to the postseason than last year for the Leafs (42:30).The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

for inborn show police hour number one we're on sportsnet 590 sportsnet 360 and sportsnet plus from four to six and remember wherever you get your podcasts download us and always remember to text us especially on fridays at 590 590 we'll read them we'll have plenty i'm sure after a full first week full week on the real kipper and born show let's welcome in justin bourne sammy mckee we got derrick Derek Brandeo and Jen Rolnick as always. And first and foremost, coming off, I think, a better look for the Toronto Maple Leafs than what we saw Monday against the Chicago Blackhawks in their 4-1 loss. But I think JB, we'll start with you. For a lot of Leaf fans, a loss is still a loss.

Yeah, a loss is still a loss. I wonder if Leaf fans, even the most ardent Leafs fans, aren't more aware of the big picture by this point. Like, I think this is going to come up at some point, where they were last season around this time. You know, at the end of October, we had them at 4-4-2 after, you know, losing to some pretty so-so teams in California. This is, you know, it's not the time

to overreact to a single loss. It's a process over results thing. Keefe wanted them to focus more on defense, and they defended. They can't score, but they defended. So, sure, Kip, I have some positives to take out of it, I think, despite bad results. half empty that glass of yours well i think they look the best they've looked all year last night yeah i think that was the realest most normal hockey game they've played

like those first two or whatever the montreal game was those first two were just uh preseason extended preseason and then you know, the game against Chicago stunk. And then last night I thought it was two playoff caliber teams kind of playing a tight playoff style game. I thought, I don't know, just a couple of mishaps at the end of the first period. That does bother me a lot. The end of period stuff where they get scored on late in periods and it's just such a back breaker.

Both you guys played hockey long enough to know how much that kills you. But man, I thought it was a good game. Kipper, you're looking at me like you disagree. No, I'm not. I'm not. We did spend our first hour yesterday talking about maybe a different kind of look, more emotion. They went out and they got a little grittier.

They went out there and got more sandpaper to face a team like this. And I didn't really see it. No. And I don't know if at this point, yeah, we're only in four games. I get it. But are they going to treat that new attitude that we're going to – what is the training camp word? Snot?

Snot. You mean the new Leafs are kind of looking like the old Leafs? Did you guys see against a team that knocked you out in the second round any snot? Snot. No, but like they didn't... So they went out and got it so they can pick and choose when they need it. They're just more congested, I'd say.

Congested? So what? Having trouble getting through. The weather today in Toronto, it is cold and flu season all of a sudden. Take a Tylenol and they clear it right up. But it is like I was wondering if Sammy would be more frustrated just because parts of that game were so like playoffs last year where you go down a couple of goals. You feel like you're the better team.

Yeah. And now you just have to get through Florida and score. And all of a sudden Bobrovsky makes some saves. And for, you know, a second straight game, they can't get any clean looks. They kind of got some chances, but it looked very much like last year and i know people who cover the blue jays will tell you that the things that showed up in playoffs when they lost happened all year long oh there's nothing new i watched 150 of those babies and didn't enjoy of any of them so there's a piece of me that watched what happened to them last night after what happened

to them in the playoffs and said uh-oh like this is the same thing, to your point. It's the same thing. They couldn't get through when they needed to catch up. Hmm. I'll give Jake McCabe some credit here because there's one guy I thought he had some snot last night. That was his best game of the year by far. By far. And give Lilligren credit, too,

because that was a good pair last night for them. McCabe was looking to inflict some damage when he was on the ice, which I really noticed and really liked. Which is, that's his forte. That's what they traded for when they gave up the top picks, that he, the number one thing about him, compete. Yeah, and he cares. He is emotionally invested in the games.

Good sign there. Yeah, for sure. Should we, we have so many clips today. Yeah. And he cares. He is emotionally invested in the games. Good sign there. Yeah. For sure. We have so many clips today. We do. I just want to kind of clean up this whole thing because, again, if there's just one thing I'm a little disappointed in is that it just seemed like a little bit of the same old, same old. So who did you want?

Reeves to go do something? No, I just wanted more attitude from all of them. Florida didn't really present it either. People, we're not talking about Reeves fighting. Right. We are talking about just showing a tougher overall look. And toughness comes in so many different forms not dropping the gloves or just dropping the gloves but winning battles or getting to the net sustaining a four

check you know knocking people on their asses and it just seemed like it just wasn't quite there for me yeah i mean it's tough you know i wrote an article today about their new players and trying to get acclimated and what you expect from them and learning on the fly all that sort of things like what's a reasonable expectation for the new guys to get comfortable but klingberg you know not boxing out on one of the goals against was one of the problems in playoffs last year where lilligren couldn't box out and so to your point about toughness that's the kind of thing i think we wanted to see right like a little bit more let's engage those net front battles and not have a guy take away your goaltender's eyes but instead have trouble getting to that part of the rink wasn't quite there he didn't even consider putting a stick

on the guy in front can we just say thaty, we've been talking about him behind the scenes, he is, you love him on offense. Oh my, I just think he's a breathtaking offensive player. Breathtaking. I do. I do. And so bad defensively. If you're talking about, like,

sometimes Leaf fans holding their breath, then I agree with you. He is so good offensively, Ken. And he's as bad defensively as he is good offensively. My complaint to that with Sammy was he sometimes goes plowing into the shins. Where is there a scoring chance off his stick every time he's out there?

It could be a product, Kip, of them not having a guy that's this offensive. I guess they have Riley, but he's not that guy. He doesn't have the same offensive instincts to me that Klingberg does. I get why people keep giving him chances. It's not for him, his scoring. Like, I think he sets, he knows where to move the puck

and moves it quickly and all that. But yeah, like, you know, 15 seconds left in the game last night or 16 where he blasted into, you know, triple coverage for a shot. I was like, eh, a little Tyson Berry to that one. That was the first sort of sign of that that I've really seen offensively. But defensively, he looks like he's pretty afraid of contact. He doesn't really like the battles. Well, that's the problem.

We're sticking with Richman's Eric Gustafson. That's our call-up. Completely agree on everything defensively. He's Gustafson coming in, play the playoff. That's a seventh D in the bullpen. You call him out to work on the power play he's better than that but i get your point here not in his own end he is he is the exact same yeah you're probably right god please where he flies the zone and there's a 50 50 and what was gustafson being paid when he was on the

team yeah and this guy is 4.1 and you're telling me he's he's afraid in his own zone looks a little little timid around contact i would say yeah you know that's what i'm telling you jordano was awesome last night by the way his partner yeah so that helps oh god huge here we go again was jordano not good last night okay the answer is to yes he was was. And the bigger picture is, oh my God, if he is, what's that say about the rest of them? He's 40 years old and he's slow and he's counted on now to almost act like an anchor again. Are we doing this all over again?

That guy, at the end of the year, for the Leafs to compete for a Stanley Cup, he has to be the seventh defenseman. Seventh! And I'm fine with that. But it's also October, and if they're going to get the most out of him, now is the time. He played an awesome hockey game.

So what? He could have nothing left like he did last year, Sammy. That's the game plan. Run it back again. What do you want him to do right now? Do you want him to just say, don't play me? No, I want everybody to just no i just i want everybody i want everybody to be better i do and yes i do i do i do want them to say uh you're not

playing next game we're gonna we're going with the guys that we have that's a criticism of the leafs and not giordano not giordano are you kidding me that guy's doing it he's giving it his all yeah but you're gonna bury him like you buried him last year. You're running the same playbook. Yeah. And don't worry, the next man up is, according to, we had Jason Buchel on yesterday. No. No answers. Literally no answers.

Like Benoit, I guess. He was up. Now he's down. He's waiting for his chance. He was loaned to the Marlies for Holmberg, who was brought up today. Right. The answer is everybody needs to see us get so much better in the meantime while you're still looking for better defense they are who we know they are are they not i don't know you're telling

me in your article you got to wait now and well no i'm talking about their decor and their decor is not as different and those guys i think we have a pretty good idea who every everyone is on the decor all right let's go to our first kippers clipper from sheldon keith on the overview of what he saw last night i liked a lot about our game you know it's probably the best but the best game that we've played in in terms of the quality of the game it was it was tight it fast. It was competitive. And I thought our guys hung in there. I thought defensively we did a nice job

throughout the game. Didn't give up much at 5-on-5. They scored two goals from distance. And didn't give up much else other than that. Obviously, didn't do enough to generate enough offense. So, you don't score, you don't win. That's the way it works. I don't score you don't win this way the way it works

okay i don't think we can argue too much with that i think he's right there were better signs like we said earlier than certainly what we saw against chicago but it just seems like they got one or two glaring errors that end up costing them and it didn't florida last night i think it's concerning that we have sat here and talked about depth and goaltending and d is potential problems and the offense is now highlighted right one goal two goal two games again to me it's games in a row to me the offense thing is just a conversation with the bottom six that we've had you know your guys you know mario goes out there he scores one last night your top four guys aren't going to score a goal every single game power play again right they're five on five they're getting nothing so nothing it's you're

going to need somebody from below the top six to put one in the net here and there to have the record show though so minton comes out of the lineup for holmberg and all of a sudden the lines i mean this is not i don't mean this to be do we think minton's coming out of the lineup yeah we do bertuzzi's staying bertuzzi practiced today in tampa with matthews and marner i know he's got a bit of a nagging something and we'll get more to that but the bottom six like the third line being domomi, Kempf, Jarnkrok. I like that third line. Fine. Fine with that. And then the fourth line of Gregor, Holmberg, Reeves.

Okay. As soon as Minton's out, though, the bottom six looks better to me. And again, Minton is just, he's not ready. No, he hasn't been bad at all. He's just not ready. That's better. I'm concerned about his pace right now. For Minton?

Yes. Yeah, I don't think he's keeping up to the pace of play right now as a third line checking forward what did it end up with him last night was he under seven minutes ice oh is it that low yeah no i think he was up higher than that i don't think it was much he just can't you know he can't get the looks he's gonna get in junior and frankly the more he's here the less he's you know he can't get the looks he's going to get in junior and frankly the more he's here the less he's you know he's missing time getting opportunities offensively getting 847 847 like he's just so to me it's almost like should you save him send him back now and if you want to call him back up and get five games at the end of the year sure but i don't i don't think there's anything else to learn or to gain from having him out there right now yeah yeah i think uh between him and david camp i'm sorry but camp

nowhere near the level i saw last year with him oh i didn't mind camp last night oh my god no no good no good soft soft and we we can blame on the Stenling goal, the one that Klingberg coughed up the boards. Off the sideboards? Yeah. Go watch Kampf. I blame David Kampf more than I do Klingberg for throwing up a pizza up the boards

because Kampf knows that Gregor's already in the corner battling and he still wants to maintain a center position. And at that point, Klingberg's got a little panic in him, but I'd rather you get rid of the puck than make even a worse mistake right in the slot. So his natural reaction is to throw it up the boards that no one's there. But Kemp should have been there. That's Kemp's position because Gregor's already in deep.

Yeah. You can't make that mistake. You are the team's number one checking centerman with all due respect to Minton. You are it. Past Austin and Travaris are supposed to take care of the offense and you're supposed to be the defensive centerman. And you make that glaring mistake. That one I didn't like.

And then face-offs. Can't win a face-off anymore. I don't know what he was did he win two or three face-offs last night numbers were so he's at he's at uh 30 35 mintons maybe he's worse mintons at 35 and it's not good enough yeah no that that definitely isn't and you know what's tough is like he's at 40 for the year so far campus no good no that's no good how about last night i'm just quickly pulling that up you know that new contract he got does change expectations and needs from him and he was a 15 16 minute a night guy for them and so this opportunity now with minton out and him back on the third line hopefully you get better i thought

he was a better player i thought camp was okay last night i thought his you know he was in the offensive zone a little bit more the puck was going the right way more often but yeah the standard has changed for sure expectations when it comes to him when you're making $2.5 million. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. I mean, a lot of who he's playing with, too, plays into it. For sure.

One guy that he's not giving them a ton in Reeves in the hockey department. He's giving them in other departments. You sort of get expected goals. My player in Reeves' bottom every game so far. And Gregor, they've never played together, and it's four games in, so it's like getting some chemistry going here. I think a lot of who he's playing with may have something to do with that. Maybe we'll see it different when he gets moved up.

Okay, while we're on the topic of Fraser Minton, let's go to Sheldon Keefe's clip number four. I think he's learning a lot about the league. I think he continues to work hard, continues to be good defensively thought he won a couple puck battles here tonight that were really positive and good but um you know i wanted to get david camp a little more involved here today we haven't used him very much and he's another guy that you know i feel like he has more to offer our team and i thought camper had his best game tonight and then you're playing from behind so you're just not using a whole

bench. He's learning a lot. It's a good league. That's a coach not, it doesn't benefit him to take a shot at Minton at all but it's just like. Oh he's not going to do that. No. For sure. So. That's the kind of answer

you're getting. He's learning a lot. Politics speak. Just quickly to go back to Camper. Last night he was answer you're going to get. He's learning a lot. Politics speak. Just quickly to go back to camp. Last night he was 27% in the faceoff. He took, how many draws? He lost eight draws. He won three. And to Bunk's point, like, they don't start that line in the D zone

when he's a part of it. So, like, now you've got Matthews in the D zone. And it's just, it's not working out. So, the Minton thing they need to clear up. Get these lines looking back a little bit. Like, it's funny because last year we sat here with you and you were like the left side is not this is my kipper voice it's not championship caliber you know and is it because it's halloween now and you're getting your Kipper costume ready or what? But, you know, last year it was Bunting, Kerfoot, Richie, Engvall, Malgan at times. It wasn't championship caliber. Last night, the lines were kind of the same, but Keefe was like, I don't know,

Bertuzzi, Nyes, Domi, Greger, like just grasping at straws, looking for someone to fit somewhere and no one fits anywhere. He had the bingo bango balls out there. We're talking about this as like new. This is constant. Well, he's looking for something. It wasn't supposed to be constant. But he's done it his whole time here.

He always, he doesn't stick with anything. He, like, you know, Nyes plays 11 minutes last night, just over, and he gives up one bad thing and they're like, oh oh better get yarn croc back out there like he's just it's feels like as soon as he sees one offensive chance against he's got to go right to the other guys where are we like this was dusty if you ask me this was supposed to be solved with a tyler bertuzzi contract albeit just one year, at $5 million. That's a premium price, guys.

People will tell you, though, the people listening who like him, say he's hurt. He's hurt. He didn't skate morning skate. He was game time decision. Would you like to hear the clip from last night about Bertuzzi? Yeah, Kip's going to say why play him then. But go ahead.

Bert's less than 100% here right now. It was very clear from the pace of the game the physicality competitive competitiveness of the game and and the difficulty of the matchups whoever was going to play with with Austin and Mitch today needed a lot and I thought lightning Bert's load was would be beneficial to him tonight here given that he's a game-time decision and kind of fighting through something. But that was really it. Is it to the point where he might need a game or two off to heal up? Possibly.

It's possibly. We'll have to see. I'm going to talk to them that that was something he's dealing with. It was considered too severe at this point, but it's, you know, even on the bench, he's trying to stay loose and make sure that he can get ready for his next shift. So that wasn't a good sign for me in terms of the quality of the game and just really wanted to lighten his load. That's all.

All right. Yeah. What are we doing here? I do find it funny that we are we are covering a league that that treat injuries like like it's state secrets like you can't pull out anything on anybody on injuries no and then last night we got sheldon volunteering it right just getting it out there that he's hurt yes well but we don't know what's hurt it doesn't matter it's just maybe he's shooting in the he has not had he did not have a good training camp and he has not had a good start to the season no question so maybe it's

just sheldon's way of saying i listen i, let's get this out right now, that he's not at 100%. Protecting his players. What a good coach. That just absolutely takes care of any doubt that he's still our guy and he's still the number one left winger, but he's playing hurt. And I'm not saying he's not playing hurt, and I'm not saying that Sheldon's making it up.

Yeah. Call him a fibber? No, what I'm saying is that it's interesting to me that you volunteer that information because you do want to protect, you know, the doubters maybe already out there. Yep. For sure, that's part of it.

And at the same time, it's tough to hear that during game four and not be like, why don't you just give him a night off? Yeah. And you think he's going to play tomorrow night against Tampa Bay and he's less than 100%. We're five games in. There's like, out of about 82

games season. If he's trying to stay loose on the bench. Like, why? To get him back 100% and go forward. Why is he playing? Bertuzzi talked this morning and they asked him, he's like, oh, I'm feeling a lot better today. I'm going go forward. Why is he playing? Bertuzzi talked this morning, and they asked him, oh, I'm feeling a lot better today. I'm going in tomorrow. Oh, he did? Yeah.

If he's trying to stay loose on the bench, that's what? Groin? Hip? Hip. Something like that? Shoot in the net bone? Shoot in the net bone. This is a really goofy conversation.

Weird early. Weird early. Yeah, it's weird early. So my article today on Sportsnet.ca is about what is a fair amount of time to expect players to find a level of comfort because there's eight new guys of the 18 skaters if you count mccabe and nize six if you don't of guys who just hadn't played for the team before new system new line mates new whatever the answer for how long you give them is not zero games it's not four games but it's also not 40 games so there is some leeway for some of these

guys to figure it out it sucks that all of them need to figure it out i don't disagree if you look around the league right now there are players on new teams excelling uh de brinkett has eight points in four games in detroit in the league yeah um tarasenko has eight points in four games in Detroit. In the league. Yeah. Tarasenko has five points in Ottawa. Six, I think. Does he? Rodriguez? Yeah, you're right. It is six.

Rodriguez has five points for Florida. He's new there. You can go to a new team and have success. Yeah, of course. But this is not my point. But the point is that it's common to take some time. Yeah, listen. Even Carberry's out.

Van Ryn's in Van Ryan's in Those are new voices too Boucher Those are new voices, new strategies And that's just another Wrinkle in that That you're trying to absorb Maybe a different

Voice So I get all of that for sure But it's not an excuse and unfortunately none of the guys i say the only guy to me who has been good who is new is gregor and even he has been fine like he hasn't i know he hasn't blown you guys away i just and yes sammy that should have been a penalty shot last night clearly a penalty shot Especially with the ones that we've seen all year. Yes. And I mean, I want to be clear, that is in no world a penalty shot, but given the standard,

that should have been a penalty shot. He came in flying off the wing. He made a pretty good play to almost get that in one-handed too when he was falling. He's got some offensive skill. Maybe put him up a little bit. Alright, to your point, and please give my good buddy JB a read on Sportsnet.ca.

We'll just follow up his article on how you get guys comfortable and how long it takes. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on clip five. Can you get some of your new guys more comfortable with some of your systems and what's happening on the ice? Time. We need time. There's the whole point. We need time. Yes.

If you have it, there's 78 matches left. You're going to have time. But here's something I also noted in that article is being in Toronto is not like being other places and having time. You don't have as much time here. Yeah. People have come here and had success and made their money, and it's gone great.

People have come here and been Nick Ritchie and started with matthews and marner and all of a sudden by christmas he's living in chandler arizona playing with clayton keller going it just happened yeah you know he had 33 games as a leaf before they were like we just can't do this anymore so whether it's domey or whether it's klingberg or whether it's bertuzzi time they have but they don't have infinite time let me throw this at you oh yes please okay um through training camp and these first four games is there been enough time where you can think about the team that they finished with and the team that they've started with, that they are better or worse,

or do you need more time? So you want to know. I want to know. Are they better or worse today? Than they were where they just were. When they left. Yeah. The second round.

Okay. Do we have time? I need time. Honk his last night on Lee's talk if I would at least entertain the fact that they are not nearly as good as they've been in years past. And I think I would. To me, it's the Minton thing. This effort or, you know, this group doesn't appear to be better than the one that they left with in the second round the one thought i can't shake that i don't want to make a big deal out of

is that every year kyle dubas grabbed a couple of cheap guys who are weren't really household names whether it be a bunting or a david camp he had a couple of hits every year yeah and we got no hits from these guys like it was established names in domey and clingberg and bertuzzi and reeves and none of them are playing well the contract he signed for camp he's not playing well like unfortunately i like the names that came here i can see why it should have worked none of them have worked yet four games but i can't shake that thought my first article that i wrote for the toronto star i said those three guys aren't enough it won't be enough to change anything unless it has a ripple effect throughout the team that it it helped

influence a different attitude and just a and it it's not there it's like an andrew ference was the captain of edmonton it's like if you're not playing you know if you're not important to your team it doesn't matter as much and those guys aren't playing well enough to be important to feel like a part of the core thus far so what does it do for a new general manager and a new coach i mean a coach that's new under him where the general manager signs these four big names and early in your relationship with like the, the actual on-ice product, none of them really are playing well. And the decision to keep Minton, too.

And it's early in the season, obviously, and there's tons of time for this. But, like, does that tense in – or tense in? I don't think that's a word. Does that tense up the relationship? Increase tension. Increase tension amongst the relationship? Like, oh, you should be playing Domi more.

Like, are they having those conversations? I don't know let's let's pick this conversation up after we hear from sheldon keith on uh on max domey's slow start no it's which one do you want oh it's actually max it's actually max okay let's hear from max then all right sorry that's all good i mean hey man it's the nhl it's best league the world, so there's a lot of challenges, right? But at the end of the day, that's your job to figure it out, and sometimes it takes a little bit of time. It's always a process. So, I mean, we're, what, four games in right now,

so no need to hit the panic button at all. But it takes some time, and just keep chipping away, getting reps in practice and whoever you're playing with, getting to know them as much as you can and get familiar with them whenever you can. So it's really the only thing you can do. I mean, it's the perfect answer. I can't say anything better.

The problem is everyone wants more time. Yeah, but... Look around the division. The time may not be there. No, it's going to be there. You have no choice. Max isn't going anywhere. No, I just mean the teams in the division going to be there. You have no choice. Max isn't going anywhere. No, I just mean the teams in the division seem to be better. Yeah, I know, but they're not going to lose a playoff spot in the next six weeks or possibly the whole regular season.

So I don't know. He will get time. The rest of them will get time as the rest of them will get time. The problem is they may have to take a few knocks along the way in social media and maybe on this show on occasion, but this roster isn't going anywhere. No, not by and large. In fairness, that's been the theme of the show today is you want to get everyone to have some run together. Time.

Max is way better than this. So, Domi. Time. Time. Max is way better than this, okay? I know he is. And he's, one of his best fortes, he's a good passer. He's rushing everything from behind the net, Kip. As soon as he gets it, he's. Can we get Max one more time talking about the icings last night? Sure, let's talk.

That's got to be some sort of record, no? Four icings in one shift. I don't think i've had four icings in my whole career it is baffling um it was one of those things where you're just trying to get uh get the puck on the other side of the blue line and they were putting a lot of pressure with the with the pinch and and it was one of those things she said okay well keep coming it's gonna keep coming by you and uh you know what it was a good test though though, because on the fourth, the next time, I actually was like, all right, I'm going to try and throw it in the middle a little bit. And not that anything happened out of it, but you just got to stay with it.

And, I mean, that's just part of the game within the game, right? So, obviously, you don't want to ice it four times in a row, but at the same time, you don't want to foul a game. I guess everyone knows the game within a game is trying to not ice it four times. Okay, so Ty has the record for most penalty minutes in a Leaf career, and he's got the icing one. He can get some better accomplishments than that yet. The first thing I think about watching Max is just how much different it is. And, yes, he's been on half a dozen teams.

I get all of that, but not one like this. Not one like this where he grew up in this environment. He's watched it with his dad. He knows the pros and cons out of it. And to me, in this first few weeks, there's been a ton of weight on his shoulders, and he is not playing relaxed hockey. He's tense.

He's rushing things, i i.e the icings and he's he's just got to get over that hump of stop caring about where you're playing yep and so they've got him playing with yarn croc and camp and say what you will yarn croc scored 20 goals last year and plays a good defensive game camp is an nhl third line, does a pretty good job for the Leafs. It's a couple of guys that I feel good having Max with them because you can trust that the line is going to be able to play in the right end of the rink. And you know

what? If Jarnkrupp gets a one-time pass, he can hit it. That's like one thing I trust he can do, right? Like he saw that with Matthews last year. It's either bar down or bangs off the glass. So Max can find a little chemistry with a guy like that, give him five games with those guys, that's probably his natural fit in this lineup.

Yeah. Well, let's listen. Keith actually commented on that line, if we can do that. Clip eight. Looked really good in the short time. I used it in different parts of the game yesterday. It looked really good. I thought today in practice it looked really good.

So I'm really intrigued by it. I think Kamperer had his best game of the early going here last night. And I think getting him a little more in regular rhythm I think will help him. And it seems everywhere Yarncroft has been, has been one of our best lines. So having those two guys with Max, I think it's great. It's three very experienced players in the league, and, you know, it should really help us.

Yeah. The experience thing there to me is the standout. Yeah. Do we have a new flex deal, says Derek. Oh, absolutely. Yarncroft just blew. Wherever Yarncro new flex seal, says Derek. Oh, absolutely. Yarncroft just blew. Wherever Yarncroft has been, it's been our best line. I'm sorry, what?

Yarncroft is immediately new Kerfoot. Like, immediately. He just slid right in there. Say what you will, but him and Willie, right, and Tavares, they were fine to start the year. Was he with them? I think so. Kerfoot last year? Oh, yeah. No, no. No, no. Yarncroft to start the year. Was he with them? I think so. Kurt Foote last year?

Oh, yeah. No, no. No, no. Yarn Croc. Yarn Foote? Was he not? I think Domi got the start with Willie and JT this year. Yeah, and then they moved up.

Yarn Croc. Yeah, Yarn Foote's got some run there, but not a ton. I know. I know. What did you think of Willie and Tavares last night? Willie took a pretty good shot into the boards. Oh, yeah. That looked scary.

I wonder if that made Willie want to. By far their worst look this year. That line. Tavares and Willie. Yeah, I didn't notice Tavares' deep play. No comment on him at all, which is a comment in itself. Yeah. But that Willie thing, if I'm him, I'm getting up from that hit.

Like, I should sign that eight-year contract by nine by five they offered me before I destroy a collarbone or something. Like. All right. Better Samsonov. Not good enough to beat the guy 200 feet away in goalie Bob, but better. I thought, for sure, the most encouraging start for me. Yeah.

The shots that went in were kind of seeing eye pucks through traffic. Not going to fault them for those. Hated the second one. Need a save there. The second one? Yeah. Absolutely need a save. You need a save.

Yes. Need a save. And we can talk to the coach about it? It's right by the pants of a teammate. I think it's a pretty darn good shot, boys. All right. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Samson. I'll start.

I thought you saw it. I thought the guys, we darn good shot, boys. All right, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on Samson Offstart. I thought you saw it. I thought the guys, we've been talking about this. I can't truly assess the goalies until we start playing better defensively. I thought we did a good job here tonight. I had the last six scoring chances at 5-on-5, so we did a good job there. He made some saves and penalty kill for us. That were real good. Two goals come from distance.

I'd like to see him find a way to get one of those for us, especially when the other guy on the other end is not giving you much. But I thought it was a good game and progress for Sammy in terms of finding his groove. Second one. I wanted to save one. Should have mentioned that. Yeah.

I'm going to look at it right now. It's the floater from Oliver Ekman-Larsen from The Point. That's just like doesn't fight around the guys in front of him to see it, and it goes in the net. It wasn't exactly mock speed that it went into the net. The first one's a heavy wrist drop to sidebar. It goes bar down. It was a good shot.

The second one, right at the end of the period. Yeah. You didn't clip Samson off last night. He was funny. He's so funny. It's funny, but we're just going to hear him say, the sun comes up, I have a smile. He said, maybe I need glasses.

That's what he said on the goals. It was good. It was good. Yeah, after watching that, I softened my tone. All right. Not a great goal. Last one. The guy that I've liked from the get-go.

You guys know how I feel about Holmberg. Like him. We were the only show calling for an offer sheet last year. Didn't think he should have been sent down. Yeah. But there's a bit of a love affair for Minton. I get that. But we know he's back up.

Do you guys remember the assessment I had of him last year that I talked to someone pretty familiar with his game and said that you love to have him as a guest in your house where he feels uncomfortable and he's on his best behavior and he's working hard and all that. You don't want him to get comfortable and have a feeling it's his house. Or you get a little lazy and he doesn't do all the little things perfectly. Holmberg has a send-down at the start of the year and send a message to him.

That he's hungry? I think they're probably trying to make him feel a little uncomfortable. Okay. And it sounds like perhaps Sheldon Keefe? Yeah. I mean, you can listen to the tone of this clip. Clip number nine, Derek, from today that he was talking about Holmberg when he gets called up. So, we have that.

I thought his camp was a little underwhelming to be honest after you know we come to come to expect him to be a good player for us last year and that we just talked about the early part of the season he was very good very consistent for us and and I don't think he asserted himself the way we'd like to see him in in training camp but obviously also the the emergence of guys you know like minton and like cowan uh those kind of guys uh i thought for a lot of camp outplayed him frankly and and then so now you're giving those young guys opportunities that maybe he would have had but that's you know that's part of it as well as just recognizing that that this is a difficult league uh to play in and difficult team

to make it's a good team last season he got off to a tremendous first half with us and i as i said i thought hit a wall in the second half it wasn't the same uh so just the consistency is really what it's about but we like a lot about the player he says holmberg you're homegrown you got outplayed by mere children by young young men the childs were better i don't think he was the only one had an underwhelming training cap though no so i mean pick one i guess and make him an example i don't have a huge problem with that so what do you expect from him coming up like is he gonna be playing over eight minutes a night is he gonna be they're gonna be using him more than they've used minton no like part of the problem with holmgren

probably is that he doesn't he doesn't do it to my calling him holmgren holmberg he doesn't do anything you know he's not like big or physical or scores or faster he's just i think he's good he has scratched the surface a little bit for me that he can go to the net. He can finish. He can win puck battles. Yeah. I saw enough last year that, like I said, if a team had any guts at all, you give up a pick for him and sign him to an offer sheet that the Leafs couldn't.

But he didn't want to stick it out and signed, I think two-year deal for next to nothing which is okay i guess you can have that choice but i like him a lot yeah well that's good and i think the lineup instantly looks better with him in there but his game really did crater yeah oh he fell off he fell off and he didn't even really get considered in the playoffs. I know they traded for O'Reilly or whatever, but it was like he was, once he was gone, he was gone. Let's fit in the other clip of why he's getting called up from today, clip seven. Well, a combination of things. Obviously, Bertuzzi's status was one of the reasons.

And then we just, we like the player. You know, he was a good player, played a lot of good hockey for us last season so Bertuzzi he said he's going to play they say they called up Holmberg because they're not sure if Bertuzzi's going to play

says last night that he might miss a couple games so maybe guys just have a conversation to see if he's going to play there's like four different takes on his head. The Freddie Anderson knee. Yeah. Can we just go talk to the guy? Get an answer.

Yeah. We're almost back to Freddie Anderson days where it's like, is he on the ice? Is he playing? Is he skating? Peeking through the blinds? Does anyone know if our goalie is going to play? Is he wearing a track suit?

Listen, we got a lot of juice out of the Amazon series in our first season. Yeah, we did. Was it you that told me the Leafs have something on the web? Yeah, apparently there's some series that, I mean, I shouldn't say apparently. And it's behind the scenes stuff? Yeah, behind the scenes in the fluffy way that things are. It's state-run media. It is.

Are we getting sheldon ripping them after a game no no no we're getting like max domi talking about love in toronto and you know maybe doing some puzzles or something it's good for you sam i watched enough i watched enough matthew nye's putty from seinfeld that's my who's just a bigger cronk maybe from emperor's new group. Anyway. So what? Okay. No, I guess we should,

we should go to break, but I'll maybe we can answer this on it. Why isn't Matthew and I is playing more like every time 11 and a half last night, every time he's out there, he's noticeable. He's got the puck. Like,

is it just, they're, they're putting them on the second line and then he ends up playing 11 zip, zip, zip and four games. I know cause he's not playing. Yeah.

Chicken or the egg there, but maybe you can answer that question. There's another break. Okay. And or the egg there, but maybe you can answer that question the next time we have a break. Okay. And quick note, in our national hour, we're going to welcome in John Cooper, head coach of the Tampa Bay Lightning.

He is always a great listen. No question. And looking forward to that. Hopefully he doesn't know who I am. All right. Quick break. Listen. Oh, God.

We're going to be listening in that hour. The best clips. For sure. We're back after these listening in that hour. The best clips. For sure. We're back after these words'm Nick Kippereos. Glad you're aboard. Our first full week here on the Real Kipperenborn Show. Yes. I had my mic off.

I'm here again. Hello. And are you officially in charge of jerseys at Crosby today? Well, no. Wait till you see what's going up next hour. It is a doozy. Truly, I'm going to tease that. We have a beautiful...

I should say beautiful. It's not beautiful. We have an awful jersey that is worth watching. Yeah, I like the jersey. We're getting low, though. You know, it's starting to run out. You know what I think we should do at some point is if you want your beer team's beer league jersey up there you'd write sammy

we'll give you an address and you can make sure all your team watches we'll throw it up there for you i mean you gotta win a contest or something for that you know i just want to help people out for the goodness of your heart i got a pretty good heart maybe i will uh are we done with the clips is there anything else you guys want? You got one on Matthews. Is that a big deal? No, I just thought it was just about him killing penalties. I thought him and Marner particularly last night, there was one kill where it was like, oh, boy, this is what it can be.

Where they're good with the puck on the penalty kill. Maybe not so good without it, but good with it. I like it yeah okay i just want to touch base a little broader picture uh we're talking about uh either the atlantic or the eastern conference and this goes back to a little bit of your uh your article in sportsnet.ca today about uh how much time do you need we're on average four games into the season. Have you seen enough out of the Eastern Conference or the Atlantic to suggest that the Leafs are going to be in a bigger dogfight

than ever before with the likes of maybe Detroit or Ottawa pushing? You want to hear the worst radio answer of all time i haven't seen enough oh i haven't seen enough i haven't seen enough because okay detroit's three and one right now and i look at their roster and i go like they're better i get they're better but like philly is three and one in the metro okay you know like the oilers are one and three we're still at the part of the schedule where there's some things that I expect later in the year. We'll go, do you remember that start Detroit got off to? I wish Boston wasn't 3-0.

How about Vegas 5-0? Could they maybe start sucking one of these times? But we had Elliott on earlier this week, and one thing that I think has been kind of noticeable is that the coaches aren't acting like they've got a lot of time, some of them. Yeah. And Rick Tockett throws out a bullet after game two.

Lindy Ruff benches. Like, Timo Meyers, if I'm not mistaken, is the highest paid New Jersey devil forward he is okay higher than Jack Hughes who's just signed last year 64 million dollars like that's a heck of a statement yeah four games into the season well you know like Lindy R ruff sheldon keith has an extension and probably has the the luxury of doing that if he wants to the problem for me is like the core guys have been pretty good i don't know what you think but like i'll be honest you know outside of marner scoring last night it's been a pretty okay start right once you have i agree yeah i know i'm not

overwhelmed no uh i thought he had a terrible game like everybody else against chicago last night he scored he's better i thought he best won so far but i thought he had a heck of a game last night yeah i really did i thought he was by far the the best forward yeah so but for the leafs so the point is that the core guys have been okay for me so then the new guys, do you bench them? Like, what's the bullet that you want to use here? I am a little concerned about the division, if I'm being honest. I think we're seeing the Senators transitioning from sucking into being good.

And I don't think Tampa's going to suck all year. I don't think Boston, they may be good still. I think we won't know the division outcomes by November like we did last year. I think there's a chance that if you're asking, they're going to be in a bit of a dogfight for a playoff spot. I think that's a chance. And because of that, there's a world where things can go wrong.

You had a star player hurt and all of a sudden... I'm not panicking, but i'm just saying there could be a fight leafs are two and two right now as we said last uh earlier in the show last season they went four four and two and we knew there was a little bit of a a panic there sheldon's if sheldon keith seat was hot at that point yeah it was hot was hot. Oh, it was scorching. So he's got a new extension. If they end up 4-4-2 again, is it going to be much less of that or the same?

And let me throw this at you. LeafsSchedule.com. Let me throw this at you. Yeah. That with Kyle dubas gone a lot of the narrative is that we're gonna see a different sheldon keith maybe more free to call guys out or be more of himself without having you know big brother looking over your shoulder and that's not the way brad tree living rules so he's got much more flexibility to

be yourself okay is there a chance that if this continues in the next two weeks we're going to see a different sheldon keith because right now have same same i'm gonna say yeah yeah yeah i'm gonna say yes i'm gonna say that there's a chance for sheldon to freak out, maybe have some sort of media blow up or, you know, words go wrong. If Lindy Ruff can bench Timo Meier, like, can't Sheldon bench somebody significant? Let's say it, though. It's not shocking or significant to bench Willie Nylander

because he's done it a thousand times. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's just the... Nothing new. That's the layup for him. That's the layup line. Tavares is always going to come out in the media and say the right things. He's a loyal soldier. He's the captain of the team. That's the layup line. Tavares is always going to come out in the media and say the right things. He's a loyal soldier.

He's the captain of the team. It's amazing. I listened to all the audio before after every game. He's never, ever said an interesting thing once. Not his whole life. He's a hockey man. Bang. He is killing it saying nothing interesting.

So what we're talking about is would he ever bench Matthews and Marner? And no. Because he's got to win hockey games. Yeah, and you got to keep those guys happy. One shift he did last year with Marner. It was literally one shift. I don't know necessarily if I I mean, a guy that scores a back-to-back

hat trick, you know, Marner's never going to be your biggest problem. You know, I'm thinking, yeah. I don't know. After that, it's not that much of a surprise would it be no right yarn crock you know nye's a rookie whatever uh yeah i guess you're right it's got to be one of the four yeah go four four two they have lightning capitals stars predators kings bruins they got some good

teams in the mix they could be four four two ones-2 again. A couple crappy ones. Freds and Caps you should get. No, we're not benching Morgan. What? Horrible drop-in. Just to us, though. Oh, was it? Alright.

That's it for the Leaf Edition. We come back. We go national on Real Kipper and Bourne, and we're going to be let off with Stanley Cup champion John Cooper. Stick around.