Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Closing Down Klingberg with Brad Treliving

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with some Shohei Ohtani talk before they are joined by Toronto Maple Leafs GM Brad Treliving (6:00). He discusses John Klingberg - who will have season-ending surgery, the plan for how to utilize the now-freed-up cap space and the priority to extend Nylander. Later, the guys discuss Sheldon Keefe's dissatisfaction with the effort in practice and whether his seat is heating up at all. They are joined by former NHL executive Gord Stellick (30:49), who discusses Keefe's outburst at practice, whether the in-team leadership is doing enough, if any of the depth defencemen have proved enough for a longer try-out and his new book, 'Revival.'The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

let's welcome everybody in to the real kipper and born show toronto maple leaf edition nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandale and we welcome back jen rolnick as well wherever you're picking us up sportsnet 590 sportsnet 360 sportsnet. From 4 to 6 p.m. Eastern, we're glad you're aboard. And remember, if you can't catch us live, you can always download us on any of your favorite pods. And remember to text us at 590-590, and we'll get some of those comments in today's show. As you can see...

And you can watch it on YouTube, too, after the fact. So if you want to find us there, go there, too. There's nowhere you can't go. We're everywhere. it on YouTube, too, after the fact. So if you want to find us there, go there, too. There's nowhere you can't go. Yeah, we're everywhere. We're everywhere. Yeah. We're everywhere. You guys like my Herb Tarlick jacket today?

I very much like that jacket. Yes. Do you guys know who Herb Tarlick is? I know the name, but I don't know who it is. Yeah. What do you got for me? Sell cars? 70s sitcom sales guy.

Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. With wild jackets. Yeah. 70s sitcom sales guy. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. With wild jackets. Yeah. But, Sammy, I'm really hoping that I will remember this jacket forever because I'm hoping it's the jacket that I remember wearing the day we announced the greatest, most talented player in baseball history is coming to the Jays. So I really do respect and love how much you care about this.

I do. Like, I can just tell that you really genuinely care. Like, there's things I know that you don't care about and pretend to. But this is a thing that you genuinely care about. You've brought it up a lot. And, yeah, we're kind of starving here. There was a little bit of details yesterday. There was stuff coming out a little bit,

but now it's been solid 24 without any updates and I'm starving for an update. The only thing I can think of of your Otani is you're like, let me just wake up a few different days and feel, you know, make sure I feel the same way when I'm having pancakes in a couple of days. But if I knew the world was hanging on that decision, I'd be like, I couldn't do it.

I would have to just make the decision. There are certain people who like others to wait for them. Yes. And maybe he's one of them. Maybe he's going to hold a special Jim Gray and say, I'm taking my talents to the beaches. You know when you go to a supermarket or Costco or something and you're trying to get into a parking spot

and the person's in their car sending a text before they back out? They like to make you wait? Certain people have that affinity to do that maybe he's one of them on the most extreme scale possible well just to keep everybody up to date if anything does break here uh at the rogers headquarters of course sports net van 590 would be all over it once again much like yesterday we'd be booted out of here rather quickly we'd get to yell and scream about how fired up we are for 10 minutes we've got we've got we'd be out of juice we've got people on standby uh the sense is maybe it might go throughout the

weekend sammy yeah that's what was our boy morosi was saying that it could be the end of the weekend so listen i just i i am addicted to my phone as it is. Just talked to my wife about this. I am a true phone addict. It's a bad thing. Oh, yeah. And it's even 10 times worse now. Like, I bet you my screen time, my screen time report this weekend is not going to be

what I want to see. It's not going to be what I want to see. We have got a great show today loaded with guests, including in a few minutes, general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Brad Treliving, will join us. Second time this year, and it's only December. Wow. He wasn't on our show. Early in the season?

Keith was on our show. Treliving was on the morning show. See, I just agreed with you. I'm like, Justin's never wrong. Well, he has talked a lot more than Dubas did in his last year. Also on the program today, Gord Stelic, of course, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, does a terrific job for us here on Leaf Nation pre- and post-game.

He's going to join us in about 25 minutes, and we'll maybe dissect a little bit of what brad tree living will tell us which includes uh the official announcement that john klingberg will choose surgery and essentially be out the rest of the season yeah five to six months recovery um obviously that's going to be on the leafs ltir for the rest of the season so you know we'll pick through a little bit of what that means for the leafs now that they will likely have a little bit of flexibility to play with, which they hadn't anticipated having. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to talk to him. I think it's important that now more than ever,

general managers do get ahead of situations like this for no other reason. You know, eyebrows are always raised. Oh, come on. I saw people saying that. You were the first one for Tampa, Vegas. I think I'd probably be the first one. But that's not this. That's not this.

Of course it's this. The guy's having surgery. They're all the same. Do you think it's... They're all the same. No, that it's... They're all the same. No, that's... You intend to have those guys back. No, I think it's important.

Do you think Brad Trierliving's coming on our show if there wasn't a sense of clearing up the air for John Klingberg? And you think it's a clearing up the air of saying, we're not just Robida Islanding this guy. This is real. Yes. I think the difference with the,

and I think it's important. But comparing it to Kucherov, I guess would be the most obvious comparison is that Kucherov got in the off season and then milked it all season until the playoffs, as opposed to this where he tried to play. By the way, it was definitely Sammy. It it was sammy yes it's not you thank you for clearing that up all me boys all on this one but i think it's a different situation the guy tried to play clearly was hampered he wasn't as bad as he showed so anyways about brad okay as promised uh let's

bring in general manager of the toronto maple leaf spread, Tree Living. Hey, Tree, before we get into anything specifically, even someone of your stature could get dumped pretty quickly for an Otani announcement. You realize that, right? Yeah. Hey, you hit the end. If that one comes through the wire, I got it. I know where I sit.

Just quickly on that, you know, there's a general manager. Your counterpart in baseball is Ross Atkins right now, and he's going through this incredible process of trying to nail down one of the most greatest talent in baseball history. As a general manager, do you watch that? Would you get envious of being in that that type of situation if you were in that situation would you would you enjoy it or would it just be so stressful well that's the job right you you you know i i i would say i think they're enjoying the

heck out of it if you've got an opportunity to add a talent like that to your team, you know, that's what you're in the business for. So, yeah, they can be stressful. Those processes are long. You're trying to manage it. You know, I know there are reports, you know, and we deal with it all the time. Reports get out there.

You know, a lot of it's inaccurate information, so you're trying to manage that process. But to be in the fight and to be right in the middle of the fire, I think that's, you know, that's why you do this job. So I wish them all the very, very best. I have absolutely no clue where that whole process is, but I think it would be awesome for, obviously, the Jays would be awesome for our city

and the country, quite frankly. But they're complicated. They're competitive. But, you know, if you're at the table, you got a chance. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see if it's going to take the Otani number to get Willie or not, Brad, but we can get into that a little bit later.

I wanted to give you the chance to just talk about the Klingberg situation. That seems to be the news of the day, and I think why you're joining us. You know, kind of what's going on there? You know, we understand that he tried to play, couldn't. What was sort of the process of getting to where you guys are at now with John Klingberg? Well, you're right, Justin. Obviously, you know, this goes back now several weeks where, you know,

John got to a point where, you know, he wasn't able to play. And we had some stops and starts with it. And when you have an injury, you you know there's things you can play through there's things you can't there's a difference between being hurt and injured and uh and you know we looked at you know is there a way to to sort of patchwork it together here um and you saw you know going back a few weeks where john would play a couple of games, miss a game, play a game, miss a couple of games. And then the decision was made just to let's hit pause here and see if some time away from a rehab perspective

and a process that we were going through to see if we could get John to the point where he could be back not only playing but being effective. But in the interim, look at what's going on and what the different options might be. And then ultimately the decision is made that you have to have surgical intervention here. And it's certainly disappointing.

John's disappointed. He wanted to play. You know, anytime that you, I mean, it's a big step anytime that you have a surgical procedure. But, you know, in this case where you're talking on several months in rehab and effectively ending the season, you know, John and ourselves wanted to make sure we took all the time that was necessary to make the right decision. And so that's, you know, we got to that point. And now once you make that decision, you get on with the next steps of getting the surgery set up and get through that procedure and on to rehab. So that's really where it's at.

We're talking to Brad Treeliving, general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Brad, in the last few years, there have been Stanley Cup champions that have found a way to, to put guys on LTR and then have them reappear in the playoffs. And, you know, their eyebrows is raised. Obviously nothing has come of it, but there are some people that have accused Los Angeles or Tampa Bay of circumventing it, the situation. But is it important for general managers today to air it clean in terms of dotting their I's, crossing their T's on a situation like this

more than ever before? Well, I think it's – I can't speak to any other situation, Nick. You know, LTI is there in a cap world where you have a player that's, you know, just what it says, is injured long-term. And it allows you, number one, the player's got to meet the criteria to fall under that designation. So, you know, in this case with John, there's no, you know, there's no cuteness here.

You know, it's a player that is having a, will have a significant, you know, surgical procedure here. So I don't think anybody's going to get into trying to be cute and deal with a significant medical issue that way. But certainly there's, you know, as there is with any rule or regulation, trying to be cute and and and deal with a significant medical issue that way but certainly there's you know as there is with any rule or regulation you've got to you've got to go through a process you know the league is always going to monitor these situations um to ensure that there's there's there's strict compliance and um but at the end of the day, I would venture to say that most of these,

and I can't speak to all the situations in other markets or other teams, but when a player's gone on in this significant time, there's a reason for it. Whether there's an injury that requires significant rehab, whether there's surgery, that's just the way it is. And, you know, so I think a lot of that gets, you know, there gets to be a, I think the debate, I don't think there's a whole lot of debate of players going on LTI, of any funny business going on here.

You go back and, you know, there's been some in recent memory here. Those players have had surgery. I mean, they have significant medical issues. I think where the debate comes in, and there has been, is players coming back and then you're effectively playing in the playoffs at a roster that exceeds sort of the salary cap. There is no salary cap in the playoffs at a roster that exceeds sort of the salary gap. There is no salary gap in the playoffs. So I know there's been some debate about that issue

over the last number of years, but it's pretty clear. Those players, any player that's going on LTI, the league is very thorough in terms of following up and ensuring that the player complies with that designation. And, you know, it is what it is. You know, you've got it there. And those players that are going out to you, you know, they're dealing with something of significance.

Brad, so with Klingberg officially out, Lilligren's still not back, Giordano hurt. I've heard you acknowledge that you could use some help on the back end. One of the teams that has help, obviously, the Calgary Flames, your former club. We've seen Zdorov move on already. There's Tanev and Hannafin as names that have come up. Do you anticipate that the way that you left calgary would have any impact

on their interest in trading with you do you think that is still a team that would be available to you know we could get players from here in toronto from the flames is that relationship still in good repair there yeah i'm not going to call comment justin on any other players you know yeah i know there's always speculation i mean that's just i'm not going to comment, Justin, on any other players. You know, I know there's always speculation. I mean, I'm not going to comment on any players in any other teams at any time and never have, never will. You know, as far as the situation in Calgary, I've got a great relationship with the people in Calgary.

You know, the management team there that you deal with, and I would say they're not unlike any other team that you deal with right every every every team has got the business that they're trying to complete um not not every situation is the same um and so but you know it's not none of my business to comment on what any other team is trying to do other than than you know worry about our business and you know listen i've made've made it clear coming into the season that we would like to see if we can help ourselves on defense. Now, that's a great statement. It's a matter of going out and doing it.

And these are certainly not making excuses. It's the manager's job to go in and improve the team. Now, what we would say is we've had players that we've signed over the offseason in Lagaston and Benoit that have come in and I think have done a real admirable job. They've come in. I think they're getting better. They're big bodies. They've competed hard.

But certainly, you know, where our aspirations are as a team would we like to would we like to improve the defense absolutely it all comes at a cost you know there just isn't a lot of high-end defense and the people are dying to give you for for for low cost so you you look at the assets that you have um in terms of of potential trades. And, you know, the team here has been trying to win and spent some assets over the last couple of years that teams trying to win do. That's normal course. That's what happens.

So you also got to be careful of, you know, how far do you chase it? And ultimately, what is the cost that you're going to have to pay for somebody that can come in and make a significant difference and so we'll continue to work that market that's you know i'm not making any headline statement here i mean we're no different than anybody else everybody else everybody every team at this time of the year is trying to improve themselves. We've gone through, you know, it was an area that we were,

we were looking to try to help ourselves before we've gone through. We've had a lot of injuries in that area. We've had players that come in and I get a lot of credit for how they're playing. We're hopeful that we're going to, you know, that help is on the way in the not too distant future with some of the players that are out that are returning to health. And in the meantime, we'll continue to look to see if there's ways that we can help ourselves at a cost that we think makes sense. And I guess the interesting part is when you look at, you know, just the timing of which there's, you know, just this at this early stage in the year, you know time you can make trades. But for the most part,

teams have solidified themselves as buyers or sellers. We've still got a lot of runways. Early in the season, we're just past the 20-game mark. So we'll continue to work it and see if there's a way to improve an area that we'd like to improve. One more, Brad, and I promise I'll let you go here. It's projected that the salary cap, speaking of cost,

will be up towards $88 million next year. Is that a good and bad case scenario for you? Good that you got more money, but bad that you got to give it all to Willie? Well, it's good news that there's going to be growth. I mean, we all know that all of us, all the teams have gone through – it's been a stagnant cap, really, for lack of a better term. There really hasn't been any growth as we've gone through the last number of years. So to be in a position where there's growth, I think,

is a positive thing for sure. And certainly we have Willie to sign. I mean, that's stated, you know, any time I've asked, is that's our sole objective is to try to get him signed. We continue to work at that. And then, you know, apart from that, we have decisions to make elsewhere. We continue to balance as we talk about the now with respect to the defense and the injury with John and the such with, you know,

knowing what's coming on the books next year and, and what the cap situation is. So we'll continue to work that puzzle. We're, we're, we're, we'll accept, we'll be happy with any increase. The fact that caps moving up is a, is a positive thing. Now it's our job to figure it out. We best utilize it. Well, I hope you've enjoyed the last few days in between games because it sounds like you're going to get real busy here soon.

Brad, thanks for doing this. Yeah, I'm going to get back playing. Yep, absolutely. Okay. Thanks, Brad. Appreciate your time. Okay, guys. Thanks for having me on.

We'll talk to you soon. That's Brad Treeliving, general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. They get set tomorrow night. Battle of Ontario, the Ottawa Senators. Yeah. So what did you get out of that? You know, I got out of it a reference to you know we've spent a lot of assets before i got here like i would like to do things but have you guys checked the bank account i don't have a lot to spend you know i i feel like that is

a reasonable point to make when you're talking about we're pursuing assets but like they've been trying to win here. I heard that too. What do you want me to trade? I got nothing. I also heard him being very polite. Very polite. That guy knows his way around radio interview. I feel like, yeah, he does. He knows his way around it. You think you want to tell me to

go kick rocks? Hey, I thought it was a fair question. But now he's got $4.1 million dropping in his lap. Yeah. And it's not like. The breakfast ball getting peed up.

Yeah. It's not like there's a huge list. It's not like he's going to Costco with a big giant shopping cart. It's not me every Sunday morning. Start pulling six foot. 3,000 goldfish, please. Six foot three. I can use another Kirkland hoodie. Goldfish at 220. 3,000 goldfish, please. Six foot three goldfish at 220. But it was very complimentary to Benoit and Lagasin, which is okay.

But, you know, it will get better. He's going to do something. But how much better is it really going to look with maybe one more guy? Well, I also did catch him say something to the effect of a lot of teams are still trying to figure out what they are, and I don't think it's unreasonable for the Leafs or their GM to suggest we're not entirely sure what they are. They go to overtime every time they play,

but they've only been beaten a half dozen times they don't win in regulation like they're they're teetering on the edge they've had some injuries you know is a fully healthy leaves team a lot better than their current record i think it's fair to be like we don't think we're bad we're not sure we're gonna let this play it out you know play out for a little bit more hey benoit is playing well enough that could he be a six? Yes. You know, he could be a legit six for them without spending an asset. He's playing as if that is a viable choice now, a real choice, not a hope and a prayer at the beginning of the season. Now, you still got three weeks going into Christmas,

and a lot of games after Christmasmas if he can hold his own he is he's looking at being a six seven yeah and in a playoff series i wrote an article today which the summary of it is there's so much parody in the league that it's kind of tough to tell who's good from who isn't there's about 20 teams that are about the same which means that you know i don't love that for the record but it means that everyone kind of has a chance like a weird team could win a stanley cup this year all the teams have some flaws the bruins guys came on all the people and go yeah we're not sure about the bruins having a guy like benoit in your sixth spot is not a major roster flaw compared to x team we're talking about a mid stanley cup champion oh very

much so welcome to the mid-offs the weird the year the st louis blues won the cup i predicted a team that was sort of a little bit off the radar would win they were in the basement in december once in a hundred years we're there again. 100 years is back, baby. Listen, based on the percentages that we're seeing, yeah, I get it. There's two teams in the Eastern Conference that are below a 500 points percentage. Two out of 16. 14 teams are 500 or better in terms of points in the East.

Everyone's pretty good or okay. All right, Sammy, we're going to take a break or we got a little time before we go to a break and then Gord Stella. We can go to, we can, you want to go to the, talk about practice today? Yes, I do. I do.

Because just prior to our show starting, you had mentioned something that was Sheldon recorded as not being very happy in practice today or was that something that some media outlet picked up? Let me, let me find the exact quote. He said, Sheldon Keefe not happy with the pace of practice so far. It is effing horse poop, is what he was heard screaming at the guys. Okay, so this was the media picking up from afar.

This was not in a scrum or anything today, right? This was him on the ice where the media is present, screaming F-horse poop at his team. I think it speaks volumes for the sense of urgency as early as tomorrow night in Ottawa to win. Well, I shouldn't say good, but they're not a bad hockey team. They're mid. So I wrote the column.

Yes, but they're mid like everyone else. And they had a sound effort against the New York Rangers. They just came off a 6-2 win. They're currently 8th in the Atlantic at 10-10. They showed that they could score off the rush, which apparently the Rangers don't know how to shut down anymore. They did, I think, for a good three, four weeks.

But that's kind of lost out of their game the last little while. But this is, for the Leafs tomorrow night, could present a dangerous team. Yeah. Did we end up with the audio of Sheldon? We do. Let's hear what Sheldon had to say, and then I got a thought on it. Well, I think part of that is just, like I was saying,

there's positive and negatives to not playing and practicing, right? You get to practice time, you work on some things, but then the negative piece of it is you're not necessarily game ready, right? So you're trying to manufacture that. As much as you want guys to compete at a high level and work in practice, it's not the same as a game when you're going against your teammates. So when you're trying to maintain high standards and habits

that you want to develop through games, it's difficult to do when you don't play for a bit. Then you're going to play against a team that has been playing. So you're trying to manufacture that through practice time. But, yes, certainly you want to get in a rhythm here it's been it's been unnatural in terms of how our schedules been in the last month or so yeah yeah you know we like to start building our game and building some positive momentum and having games without disruptions is part of that. But we've got to take care of the first game in front of us

and look to build that momentum here with a busy stretch coming. You know what they need? A good practice fight. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That'll get the guys going. Wrong team. Yeah.

I think I had more of those than I had game fights. Are this show, for multiple times this season, has been Allen Iverson? We've been talking about practice. Oh, yeah. We've been talking about it. We've played multiple clips on the show this week. We're talking about practice.

About practice. About practice. They don't play hockey games. They practice. So are you surprised at his outburst? No. I'm not at all. You know. I didn't mind it. I like i like it you know i think of the stat and i don't have the exact one but it's like

when a team playing game seven wins and they go up a team that just swept an opponent the team that won game seven has won game one like seven of the last eight times or seven last seven maybe because you've been playing that game intensity is there. You are aware of the tenacity it takes on every puck to win these sort of games. And when you're away from the game, it's like hopping on a moving treadmill and you're like, oh God, this is really quite fast. This is a good lead.

Good lead. And I think he's trying to, again, manufacture that. I think I like it because at least for me, it makes me feel like Sheldon's identifying that we've only won five games in regulation out of 22. And there's underlying reasons for that. And now I'm watching it again in practice. So I think his sense of urgency to push them now is is good and like

picture now another 22 games so they're at 44 and he's got 10 regulation wins mid you know what i'm saying yeah it's tough to imagine their record being as good as it is if they only have that many i'm just saying that he knows he can't. He's got to, whatever's going on, he's got to kind of end it now. And if he's not liking what he sees, then good on him for letting them know. Dean Evason, I'm sorry, have you watched Minnesota lately? No, they haven't. They stunk before that.

So here's Sheldon now. He's watching a coaching change in Minnesota change them. four straight wins. They stunk before that. So here's Sheldon now. He's watching a coaching change in Minnesota change them. He's going in to play the Ottawa Senators, and we'll get into Jacques Martin being added on our national show. But there's now another, like, don't tell me that doesn't have something to do with him just being aware of, you know, scenarios out there. And he's got to get this team going.

Yeah. You know, I've looked at the league, in you know and today and talking about all this parody one of the reasons i think the flyers are where they're at is because everyone's mid and the flyers have a coach who will grind you to a nub and so maybe that doesn't pan out over 82 games but in the early going here that grinding of your team is getting a lot of points out of a pretty mid flyers team balls okay this is sheldon i think trying to really turn the screws a little bit and be like we're not going to sleepwalk into ottawa and walk out of there at two points it's just not going to happen so and i think like you said the coaching change stuff and there's no way he's not feeling it because he knows that this team is not performing as well as the teams that he has had in the last couple years that can kind of just like snap the fingers.

It feels like the snap of the fingers isn't quite there. He's got a new boss who you guys just spoke to. Like it's a different situation than it has been in years past for him, and I think you've seen him lose his mind on the bench, seen him lose his mind like this at practice. Like he wasn't doing this last year. So he's feeling it, which I like. Sure.

You want a man coaching for his job. That's what you want. John Cooper. Yeah, baby. Lean on him, boys. Okay, let's take a quick break because we're going to bring back Gord Stelik, another general manager, 4-1. But he'll have lots to say on Sheldon's outburst today at practice.

That and so much more still to go on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Don't go away. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliott Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. okay as promised jam-packed with guests let's welcome in former general manager of the toronto maple leafs and the son of legendary ernie's tv repair in leaside let's welcome in Gord Stelic.

He was at North Toronto on Leaside, Ernie's TV repair kipper, just for the record. But I appreciate the shout-out to my late dad. Yes, absolutely. And you know how I know this? I had my next-door neighbor, Gibby, who you guys have met. Oh, Gibby. What's up, Gibby?

We miss you. Ernie come in and fix their TV when he was a kid. Really? Yes. And now TVs are disposable. You can get them for like 200 bucks and they're 90 inches. And Gibby's family would call Gord's dad up and say, the TV's smoking.

And Ernie's reply was just give it a good bang on the side and it worked and it worked it stopped smoking he knew his stuff how are you pal we good I'm good I'm really good

I think Dean Everson has broken four of the modern day tvs watching his old team play so i'm glad they're a lot cheaper you know gordon we just mentioned uh before uh the break uh maybe you know sheldon had a bit of an outburst today calling out his team in practice uh according to our source sammy McKee. And I'm just wondering now, you know, is this the time when he's really got to kick it in here and string some regulation wins? Yeah, you know, Kippy and Justin, I also think Sheldon's at a place now

that the new general manager kept him on. We know about how he had to walk back some comments before in other years, and maybe better choice of words is what he's doing now. But, yeah, you know, they are scraping and scuffling right now, which is good if you're the Red Wings or the Arizona Coyotes, but not if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs or the Carolina Hurricanes. Like, I just thought, you know, they could have a kick-ass regular season.

Let's see what happens in game number 83. But instead, there's been a lot of positives. But, you know, there's a bunch but instead there's been a lot of positives but you know there's a bunch of there there's a really big middle and and they're in the middle so i think you know he's got a much like rick talker did in vancouver come out a couple of times like set some standards that particularly with the kind of team they have and the talent that certain times it's just not good enough to get to through the promised land they think they should be. You know, we had a chat yesterday, a funny chat, about alpha dogs and, like, you know,

Kip loves having a guy in the room. And I think a lot of people do. That'll grab you by the collar and say, hey, come on, we need you. I thought about that today when hearing about Sheldon and that practice. That's where you'd love your captain or someone to, you know, start yelling at the guys and get on the ice.

In the past, we've seen the Leafs go get Joe Thornton or Jason Spezza was the talkative guy. Like, do you have to have that? Is it something the Leafs lack and still may need to pursue if this team wants to take another step? But, you know, it's an interesting mix, Justin, because I agree. I mean, Kip had one of the all-time greats in Mark Messier. I think Gary Roberts was a good example. That was some guys, he could tell them just to bleep off, whatever, and they listened to him.

Think about Bob Ganey in the old days with the Montreal Canadiens, whatever that – the makeup of this Leafs, and I really see them asserting more the young leadership group, but they don't seem to have that kind of guy. They're all different animals. John Tavares is pretty quiet. Mitch Marner wants to be a leader but you know different little sensitive austin matthews is just genuine austin which is great i think morgan riley may be the best example

but i'm not sure what he has inside there but i do agree that there's there's a spice there they haven't had with this team that i think could be a real positive. Gord, as far as the captain, John Tavares, he's closing in on a thousand points. And it just seems like no matter what he does, I don't think anybody will ever get over, but he makes $11 million. And I think in a perfect world, if it was half of that, we'd probably be celebrating him a lot more. You agree? Well, you look, and I heard you talking to Brad, world if it was half of that uh we'd probably be celebrating him a lot more you agree well

well you look and i heard you talking to brad you're living to show what's honey it's not the money it's the cap hit right i mean nobody uh resents what a j may make make in a non-cap world but yeah it's it's yet it was it was the greatest day ever the greatest free agent signing ever when it happened i think pretty well everybody was on board. But, you know, the guy doesn't have the same flash as Marner, as Matthews, but he's always been great in the greasy area, good, hard two-way player. I mean, a number one overall pick. And it's unfortunate.

You're right. I mean, that number, given the hard press against the cap world. And keep in mind the pandemic. They look for projections of $4 of four or five million every year. So that kind of really thwarted that, that he was stuck at 11, others were growing and the cap wasn't moving. So we just have to live with it.

You know, if you're a Leaf fan and see what happens next time, but you know, his salary is a reality. So Gordo, the decor of the Leafs is the area that needs the most addressing. I think most people would agree with that. You know, Tree Living was talking about that

and really praised Lagasin and Benoit. Do you see enough from those guys to think, and I'll include Timmons in that mix, like when we get the playoffs for this Leafs team, how many of those guys are a part of the Leafs decor? By the way, is Robita Island still open for Klingberg population's pretty full I think but they're they'll make room he can take Joffrey Lupo's place I don't know but anyway uh that was uh that was a memory of a few years ago I you know funny

thing Justin is you look at this team and they talk about needing defense yet last year in the playoffs the last seven playoff games they didn't score more than two goals per game and you're really of late they're not getting clobbered you know like five three six three seven three they're by and large giving up three goals in regulation time so I think there's an understanding that you want some kind of upgrade based on what they have there and I do you guys you mentioned I do think they've been doing a serviceable job it's just a mix of a lot of things. Like at time, you know, last year, the D came through and all those guys were injured, including

Justin Hall, who since departed, probably played his best hockey. And Giordano played great, playing a lot of minutes. But in this case, you know, one or two D if you're talking about going far in the playoffs. But I think too often it's our go to criticism. There's really a lot of moving pieces that have to come together in its entirety more consistently. Gord, as far as the goaltending is concerned, I don't think anybody could not feel good about Joseph Wall

or where his future lies with the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yet, we've been waiting a long time since training camp for Samsonov to show some consistency and some stability. It hasn't come. We're closing in on Christmas. And how long do the Leafs need to wait? Let me ask you this. If we were maybe a week or two away from a trade deadline how many people would be screaming

on the Leafs to go get some help for Joseph Wall right now because this guy is not dependable yeah but you know a couple years ago was David Riddick they never ended up using him as a number three I like okay so first of all last year you look at Bobrovsky he wasn't even considered good enough to start game number one for Florida. And it just got hot at the right time. I mean, it's just a case of when does a goaltender happen to get hot? Samsonov showed that last year that he could get hot. I think the key is you have one goaltender that is going great and Joe

Wall, but to your point, Kippy, you saw Vegas did it. Other teams, the whole goaltending by committee having some depth i mean you know vancouver probably the best thing is picking up casey to smith as a solid backup after thatcher demko has been a big reason in how well they played so it you know there's a lot of pieces out there i still want to see what he can do i still think hey martin jones may be an option as far as that goes because you can't just get a body, okay? You can't, but if there's one you target that you particularly like, and also keep in mind, you know, they've lost a lot of draft picks

trading to try to win the Stanley Cup. There's only so many cards they can play when it comes to trade deadline, in and around trade deadline, and they've got to prioritize everything. Yeah, the Martin Jones thing is interesting. He's only 33, which I've got to believe is somewhere in the Bobrovsky thing is interesting he's only 33 which i gotta believe is somewhere in the bobrovsky sort of age range it's not important i don't know is he any better or worse than the next guy who might be available be curious to see you know what kind of run he would get um you know as they kind of head towards this path of average in the division

and we're trying to see what they can really become Detroit Red Wings are seven, two, and one in the last 10 games. Is it suddenly, are they a team now that the Leafs are like, okay, it's not just Tampa Bay and Boston and Florida. Like they're looking out for the Red Wings a little bit. So here's, here's Justin, what I kind of worry about, about, you know, and I still believe in the team and of course it all come to the playoffs, but whatever number of years that it was, Joel Quimble was coaching Chicago at their zenith and they played the leafs early and he said man that reminds me of my team when patrick

kane and jonathan tape started and we thought in toronto okay you know what five years down the road say around now they would have supplanted boston in first place okay they would be uh better than tampa bay they would be the best team in the atlantic division and they've never been that the only time was the canadian division now the florida panthers are be the best team in the Atlantic Division. And they've never been that. The only time was the Canadian Division. Now the Florida Panthers, are they a better team than the Toronto Maple Leafs? Are the Detroit Red Wings on the verge of being a better team than the Toronto Maple Leafs? And they're all in the Atlantic Division.

And this is so – I'm not saying those teams are, but I thought they would – I thought the Leafs would be perennially now like, say, Vegas is or Colorado, kind of cutting themselves from the herd you know not worrying like last year basically when they came a early second a strong second to a very good boston ruin team so yeah you put detroit in the mix with little moves that they're making and everyone seems to be gaining because they can they can get that depth that the least can't get because of the cap constraints. Justin and I had an earlier conversation about teams in the middle. And right now we all projected the Leafs were going to be one of the top

teams in the Atlantic division. And the further you go, the more you might be just convinced that they may be one of these teams that just hangs in the middle with the rest of the group here um i don't think there's going to be a scenario of a st louis bottom feeder to win a stanley cup but could this be the year one of those mid teams and will include the toronto maple leafs can can win a stanley cup oh yeah absolutely absolutely and i i love the fact because keep in mind last year not only did we know the Leafs were going to play Tampa Bay early on,

then by Christmas, we knew they were going to have home ice advantage and play Tampa Bay. We knew all eight teams in the East that were going to be in the playoffs. There were no playoff races. So I'm I'm enjoying that part. But I didn't think the Leafs would be in a dogfight for one of those spots. So if they have that, if you want to call it subpar regular season you can always save it in the playoffs and that would be say the St. Louis scenario but again boy oh boy if you have a not so great regular season a playoff disappointment again there's only so often you can go to the well but there's no question and and maybe like Kippy I don't know what the recipe is I don't know 82 games recipe is. I don't know. 82 games.

You did it in the Canadian division. It was, what, 56 or 58 games. You're up 3-1 in Montreal. And then you go out in the worst style. You play your worst three games of the year when you absolutely needed it. You beat the Oilers three straight in the regular season. Three goaltenders almost got, three different goaltenders almost got shutouts. Two got shutouts.

The third just let one goal lead. I thought that was great. What's more perfect than that? So maybe scratching, clawing, scuffling for a good chunk of the season may pay dividends at the end of the season. It's an inexact science, but if that's what they're doing right now, that's what you have to hope for at the end. Yeah, overcoming hardships, not the worst thing. I want to give you an opportunity to tell us about the hardship

of the 1977-78 Toronto Maple Leafs. In a book you wrote, which we should plug for you, heading towards Christmas revival. I noticed a couple of Islanders on the cover of the book. My father-in-law is one of the pitchers on there, which is pretty cool. Yeah, so tell us about the book and the process of how that got made. There it is, folks.

Check it out on television. Oops. I can't. I got to go the right way. Anyway, okay. Anyway, it's called Revival, and it's the colorful, chaotic journey of the 77-78 Leafs. And there's a couple of parallels, okay? You know, one is about the Leafs this time, and I talked to Daryl Siller about it.

He's still part of the Leafs. He says, you know, this current team needs a series win like they did against your dad's New York Islanders back in 1978. I mean, that's what they need, that kind of win when they're a big time underdog. And maybe that'll happen. And also, it was a team with iconic names like Sittler, Williams, McDonald and Salming. All four were the best of friends 30 plus years later on. This has some iconic names in Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Riley, you know, you name Nylander. I don't know what they'll be in 30, 40 years down the road, but there are some parallels and what they need to do is win

that playoff series. But it was a labor of love. So many great people involved in it. Jimmy Gregory, Roger Nielsen, you couldn't meet two better people ever in the game of hockey. So I did it with Damian Cox. I got to admit, I carried him a little little bit but when have I not and uh anyway it's a it is a fun read no Damian did a great job and we're really uh uh there you go see someone putting it out properly we're really pleased the way it turned out and it really all started Justin when Boria came back last year the Hockey Hall of Fame weekend and just the uh you know just his presence the cheers the emotion all that and we kind of drew from that and decided let's go back. And it really is the whole seventies.

Like it's about that team all coming together back then. So anyway, thank you very much for the plug. I think it's a really good read. If, if you choose to pick a sports book, Look at the net, put the cover back on. If we can look at the net, the room Clark's Clark's looking at, like, call me, be at like call me be big buddy be big i didn't give an ovi a look at that that's pretty hilarious uh by the way reading like sort of the

promo for the book it's like owner harold ballard had just been released from jail and was back to his medley ways it's like what was going on in that era of hockey it would have been really fun for social media back then boy to follow the follow the Toronto Maple Leafs. Really easy. And see, they talk about that. He had fun that year. He left them alone. He had a blast. And then to what we're talking about this current team,

the next year he got impatient, started souring on Jimmy Gregory and Roger Nielsen, brought in Punch Imla for the second time, and it's never been the same. Well, I mean, they've had glimmers under Pat Burns and Pat Quinn and that andinn and that and a lot with this team but yeah anyway that's the part of the story about hey wait you know if you want to blow something up that's a lot easier than rebuilding i know people get impatient go blow it up blow it up well right you do that that's easy the other part's difficult yep gordon always a pleasure having you on our show we love it bud thanks for doing this no any tv issues give me a call ernie ernie's on our show. We love it, bud. Thanks for doing this. No, any TV issues, give me a call.

Ernie's lineage exists, okay? Love it. Love it. See you, buddy. Thanks, pal. They're too thin to slap now. You cut your hand. I saw a great...

I don't know. Am I on? Yeah, there you go. I saw a great meme recently about those old TVs. It's like, well, in my day, we didn't have to worry about anybody stealing a TV because it took four people to move it affordably. You had a forklift to get in your house. And I remember, yeah, the depth of the one I had when I was a kid. Oh, my God, they were massive.

It's like your dad would call in five of his buddies to get it, like, up the stairs. But they did have a big sweet frame around it with a whole side of the section. Oh, yeah. It was like a station wagon. Ours was wood panel, too. Now, the TV I have and just mounted to the wall, I could carry alone easily. Yeah, and it's like an art picture frame when you're not using it. Yeah, things are a little different.

It is amazing what's out there right now. All right. There's nothing to talk about now. Because they haven't played hockey in six weeks, so there's nothing to talk about. because they haven't played hockey in six weeks nothing on our baseball pitcher and hitter the latest I saw from Scott Mitchell

who covers the Jays was a picture of Ross Atkins on the phone okay well that's nice to know that's the latest update he's grinding on the phone did you see Ross's interview? I think it might have been the Major Baseball

Network. MLB. Yeah, MLB Network Radio. Yeah, yeah. Kind of looked... I saw it. Not smug, but it's like I know something. I'm just not sharing it with you. He looked a little excited.

Should have been a lot more nervous. Isn't there a name for a professional body language expert? A body language doctor? I don't know. Yeah. But he is built for this. To say absolutely nothing. He has never said an interesting thing ever.

So this is like, if this is what truly puts it over the line where he said nothing, we've been playing the long game the whole time. So the only thing close to this, and like, was it you earlier today sent out somebody had flight patterns? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like flight patterns.

This is where we're getting to. Oh, yeah. But this has that Kawhi feel and the Babcock feel as well when he first signed with the Toronto Maple Leafs, when people were trying to figure out what chartered flights are, where this is one of the greatest things about being a sports fan in this era,

this era. And just in general is, you know, there's cheering for the guys on the field or on the ice or whatever on the court. And then there's the off season where you're courting the next star. And I think there's two great parts of being're courting the next star and i think there's two great parts of being a sports fan but this part may be sneaky more exciting than the actual

stuff hockey's been lacking with no salary cap no ability to move everyone's just gets grinding old bill neilander for 20 bucks over here i spent a couple of hours today with a kruger company out in Mississauga, they do tissues. I'm going to need those this spring. Sammy's burned through a few over the years. I brought a ton for you, Sammy, when he goes to L.A., when he goes to the Dodgers. Whatever. All right.

Our thanks to Brad Treleving, general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, current and former Gord Stelic, one of our favorites. Stick around. We got another hour to go on the real Kipper and Bourne show. Jamal Mayers is going to come and join us in studio. Help tee up Wednesday night hockey.

Plus, Ottawa News.