Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Comeback in La Belle Province

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 7-3 win over the Montreal Canadiens on Saturday night. They discuss the Leafs' first period to forget, Bobby McMann earning a spot in the top six, Craig Berube's patience with William Nylander paying off, Morgan Rielly's struggles, and more! Later, Lightning reporter Erik Erlendsson (34:36) shares his thoughts on Tampa's standing ahead of their Monday night matchup in Toronto, where they'd be looking to add at the trade deadline, Andrei Vasilevskiy regaining some form and Jake Guentzel's fit as Stamkos' successor.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

The Real Kipper and Bourne Show back after a very busy weekend. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandale, and Jake the Snake Schultz on the next two hours, including our Leaf Edition Hour here covering what was a terrific weekend led by Hockey Day in Canada where all seven Canadian clubs were in action. And it was led by the Toronto Maple Leafs, I think, although we will get into Connor McDavid in the national hour a lot more. Criminal. Wow. Wow.

But in the meantime, a tale of two games Saturday night in Montreal where we saw one version of the Leafs We saw one version of the Leafs Against Montreal and then another one. Yeah, and Sammy, of course very emotional throughout the whole night Did you have him written off when it was three nothing Montreal? Yeah. Yeah Yes, I did your honor well I think it's more about just it's just what drives you insane about this hockey team Is that they come off their best performance in a month against the Devils where they really look good,

they control the play, they outshoot an opponent, and then they go into hockey day in Canada against their red hot rival in their building and they just crap all over themselves for the first 20 minutes and it pisses you off. And then what pisses you off even more is that they look like the best team in the world For two periods to come back and win. It's like a bad act

It's just a really really Infuriating team at times. Yeah, the best type to cover. Maybe the best time to stay off Your Twitter account though. Are you on it earlier? Oh, you think I care about like I sent a tweet about them being bad in the first period Is you come of course I did yeah was that as frustrated as you've been all year watching that first yeah 20 minutes easily that's as bad as they played that could have easily been six nothing if it wasn't for Joel You know by you loved them at the end right of course Kipper like who do you think you're talking to here like what do you think I am? There's no thoughts you on the Sam think I'm Ron McLean or Kevin B X here pal. Look you're talking to you can tell he's young though, right?

He's got the energy to go up and down the rollercoaster I don't understand what you think or who you think you're talking to here Like you think you're gonna come on and be like, oh, you're a dumb boat for sending a mad tweet about the leaves Yeah, I'm just saying you kind of are I Yeah, listen, I'm not calling you a dumb boat what I'm not saying you're a dumbo. Yeah, I'm just saying. It seems like you kind of are. No, I'm not calling you a dumbo. Yeah, listen. I'm not calling you a dumbo. What I'm telling you is

just be a little bit more patient, that's all. No, the time for patience was in 2018. But you could do that, you could do that. You can do that almost shift to shift if you wanted to. Yeah, definitely shift to shift compared to laying an absolute egg in Montreal against the Habs. They keep, listen, what I said at that time was completely accurate and what happened after that was great.

I have no regrets of my tweet. Zero. And people are like, own it! Take this back! I'm like, no, I'm just not gonna do it. Sam's like a Fitbit, or like one of those things. It just like, it tells you, you can tell where you're at. If you need sleep, if your heart rate's up, it's just, it's, he's like a biometric for the leash. Okay, so what didn't you, what was the big change for you between loving them and hating them?

The puck entering the net, I guess. You know, like them actually getting shots. Like I still don't think they were great for long stretches of that game, even after the first period, but they started scoring and team Canada starter, Sam Montembeau didn't look too great throughout that game. They just puck centered the net and they ended up winning.

But Joe Wall still had to bail them out for the second and third period. He was spectacular. To me, that's the biggest story of the game is how good he was. So I don't know. I felt good because they beat the Habs and there's all the memes about WiFi pointing at the scoreboard and all that stuff. Like it's great.

But yeah, for the record, good time to not fight Ryan Reeves there. You're up. Of course, why would he? Yeah. I happened to spend that night with my one friend who's a Montreal Canadians fan. So I watched the first period with a Montreal Canadiansadiens fan. Yeah. And had to hear such cool slogans as stop, dock and roll, I believe. And what's that about? No, yeah, dock and roll, I believe is one of them too. You know, like Habs fans were feeling it. So quite the pendulum swing emotionally. Let's find out exactly what was said after that first period.

Perhaps Greg Berube just showed him Sam's tweet. In between periods, let's find out Craig Berube on the message in the first intermission. Well, just win more battles. Like just, we watched and they skated and we didn't win any battles, didn't win any puck battles and exposed the middle of the ice in the first period. I mean all three goals are preventable.

We're just a little bit loose and again it's about winning battles. They looked, Montreal looked really really fast and the Leafs looked really really slow. Yeah, that was the takeaway wasn't it? For me, yeah. It was like, god, Marshall's flying out there. Flying. And that to me, anytime the other team looks super fast, you're probably not where you're supposed

to be defensively, right? No one's slowing anyone up, no cutoffs, no interference, just a track meet. With some defensive miscues, Philippe Myers wasn't awesome, Max Domi had a couple of tough looks. It wasn't pretty, bad asomi had a couple of tough looks. It wasn't pretty. Bad as it gets.

Yeah, I think Myers ended up playing six minutes the whole game. Yeah, like he started to go to 5D, man. Morgan Reilly played 16 and a half. Lois Tees played in eight years or something. The most in his career. I think he was up near 26. 26. No way.

Yes. He's their most important D. Yeah, no question I mean he he's physical he defends. He's the top PK guy He kind of anchors a pair so what have they taken over for Jake Muzzin? I would agree with that Yep, and so now they're like, alright, we're gonna pair him with Morgan Reilly so what was your thoughts on the game on Saturday night just kind of like what we've seen in the past where they can dig themselves in a hole and then just flip a switch and the big boys take over and right and okay. By the way, Myers played 8-14. 8-14, I'm kind of caught between,

I like the discipline that Craig Brewies brought them in the first half, but. Your word, it's light. It's just, it may be just too hard to not open it up when you need it. And when you're chasing, you need it. Yeah. And you kind of got to live with the fact that you're always kind of coming back to your game breakers.

But then, yeah, I mean, those guys weren't any good. How is that any different than Edmonton? How is that any different anywhere else in the league? The teams are built and we're going to see tonight, it's game night, of course, Tampa Bay Lightning in town. Okay. Okay. Kuturov, point. Yeah. Right. That's their team.

Most teams go as their best guys go, but I wouldn't say their best guys brought them back in it on Saturday. No, but I mean, Willie, obviously, the game breaking moments. Yeah. Hey, how about if you're a Leafs fan, you had to love Lane Hudson getting a welcome to the NHL moment from Willie. As you put it, Willie just wearing them like a backpack on the way to the net.

That's just too big, too strong. It's just a- Excuse me. Another thing too for a young team like that. And they've had amazing success beating some very good teams and then finding themselves in a huge night up three nothing and it's almost like they sat in the dressing room and was like oh no we still got 40 minutes to go like are we this good yeah and it's like no no you're not this good and we just definitively just gonna show you why you're not this good. And we just, we're just gonna show you why you're not this good.

And Lane Hudson has got great accolades in the last month and a lot of it's, you know, well earned. But then you end up minus five. We're making fun of those guys for the least. He minus five? He was minus five. Five. Like that's a tough night.

So when you're on the ice, you're really good and really bad at the same time. Yeah. Things get turned around on a pretty crazy moment there with McMahon grabbing Matthew Nye's stick from the bench and shooting one in on a two-on-one right after they rip a four-nothing shot off the crossbar. It's exactly it.

Like it's a, you know, they've- Game of- Yeah, and that's- Centimeter. Broke them out the other way and they go down and shoot it but I have Bobby McMahon was awesome on Saturday yeah he was looking like a young kipper out there just flying up and down call them the most underrated bottom six players I believe he called him the best bottom six player in the league I don't know that he's a bottom six player anymore his ice time is going he's up to 16 minutes a night. He's gonna score maybe 25 goals. Is he not? Yeah, I think he's that's a it's a hell of a season right and I mean he's starting to play alongside Willie

He's one of the few guys who can keep up with Willie and put his chances away You know, I don't know how much longer we can call him bottom six 13 goals and 39 games for him 20 points 13 and 7 20 plus yeah since he scored that hat trick against st. Louis last year to break it out Anthony Petrilli had some stats since then it's been 69 games and he scored 26 times you know over a 30 goal pace since then yeah and again this guy not on the power play that's all even strength and Averaging 14 minutes a night since then he's not gone to the power play since DeVaris went out

But prior to that he hasn't been let's get Craig Ruby's thoughts on Bobby McMahon Now Bobby had a great game. I thought he skated and like a lot of guys, you know after the first period It was a totally different team on our side. Bobby, he was skating tonight. That's his strength. That's his ability to skate and shoot pucks. He was solid tonight for us. It's good to see. The one thing he did in this game and something we've always had an issue with, with some of the Team B guys and the team A guys, he's in on two on one with William Nylander,

never even considered a pass. He just absolutely rips it low block, scores. Like a lot of guys would have deferred there. But he knows how good his shot is right now. There's not a lot of guys that can shoot it in the net like that. No, I know. It's kind of like Steve Kerr shooting threes for the Bulls back in the days is like yeah, Jordan's the better guy

But if I get the ball here, I'm probably good to shoot this. I'm gonna rip it. Yeah I like them to In a in a Bumper type of role on the power play. I think that's a good spot for him. I think I think let think I don't know if it's less talent than Tavares. But I like I like the power play kind of brought down a little bit with McMan. I like McMan better than Tavares on the power play right now for what I think

the team needs is less than, you know, more talent or more high end guys. I think him coming on and actually settles it down. The one thing I like is he they don't have anyone to Sam's point always complaining that no one ever dumps it and goes to get it on the torture. He's a great puck recovery guy, right? Like rebounds, those sort of things. He's fast first step, turning pucks over. So yeah, if you could have a couple of guys, Nyes wins pucks back too. So a couple of guys who win pucks back, you can shoot more and trust that you're not going to leave the zone. Yeah. Like that about it. Yeah. It just seems like they're moving the puck a little better. Yeah. Yeah. A couple of goals. Pontus Holmberg went up between Bobby and Willie.

He's looking good again. I think with him, it was like when you just look at him, there's no reason why he shouldn't be better and more consistent. But I don't know if it's just the way they've handled him over the years, that there was just never enough foundation there for his confidence, but he wavers in and out. And now with Tavares out, there's another opportunity and you're big, you're strong, you can skate, you can take it to the net. There's just no reason why you shouldn't be, where you are as a player shouldn't be more advanced than where you are right now.

He's a guy that needs the motivation. Remember? Like, when Minton made the team last year, it was, he got sent down, he didn't play. And then once Minton goes back to junior, he comes up, he plays well. Anytime he seems to get scratched, he comes back in, he plays well. I don't know if it's the book on him, but maybe he's the type of guy that needs a little bit of tough love, get him going a little bit because it seemed to have worked in the past. And he sat for how many games did he sit for before he got back in? Like he was out for a while. So maybe

that's, that's it with him. I had someone I knew who had him with the Marlies was saying that, you know, he's the type of guy that you don't want him to get too comfortable. You want him to be be trying to impress to be on his best behavior because he's got this great version of his game But soon as it's like handed to him or whatever, maybe you don't get that same Yeah, the same effort same commitment same attention. So maybe he is like scratch and score a little bit I mean like need Robertson you got to take him out here. All right, let's get Craig Ruby's thought on You got to take him out here. All right, let's get Craig Beroeve's thought on Holmberg clip for I just like Homer Holmberg's game. I thought going even back to

Jersey game just the way he's skating with the puck and hanging on the pucks and I love Willie tonight I thought he was going I thought he was on his toes from the get-go Just trying to make a difference. So I made that switch. Is there anyone he doesn't love? Probably Philip Myers on Saturday. But is there, yeah, is it Robertson? Robertson maybe? I just love, he'd come out and say he loves his eight minutes. Well.

He's very positive though. Listen, we got Sheldon Kon Keith burying the devils before we got Craig Borubey burying the Leafs. He said something about like our star players need to be way better. End of statement. That's what he said on Sunday after they lost again the devil. So anyways, continue. I don't know. Do you think he's over nice to these guys? They're in first place. Three game losing streak turns into a couple of game winning streaks. So it's hard, I guess, to be overly critical over the course of what they've played now close to 50 games.

You know, I do think that when I look at the ups and downs of teams around the league and just the way the schedule has been condensed because of the four nations face off where there's a two week chunk just taken out of the schedule. So it's every other night for a long time. It's every other night you watch Florida lose three, four in a row. You watch Tampa lose three, four in a row. You watch good teams kind of go through these slumps and obviously the Leafs just went through it too.

But I do think that you have to take that into consideration that I think just with wear and tear and illness and schedule, there's going to be stretches where it doesn't look great. And so I think the coach is being generous to them with the effort stuff. So I think it's, I do think it's hard. We were a lot more critical of Willie Nylander than, than Borubi had been last week. Maybe his patience have paid off. Maybe he understands him a lot better. So do you want to continue to talk about the game on Saturday? Or do you want to kind of move into the newsy stuff from today at practice? Because there's definitely

some stuff from today that you mentioned Willie. I mean, Borubi talks for the longest he's ever talked for one clip about William Nylander today. They're talking about Riley moving around You know, there's their stuff move moving around a practice this we can move to that or we can stay here We no further comments on that. They found their game on Saturday night. They shot it in the net Austin's Slapshot was oh my god. That was the US's first ever short-handed goal. Yes, and it's I mean barely I started killing penalties like a year ago for sure But I mean, he's I mean scored well how many has he scored in his career? He's almost 400 goals in his seven. But he never killed penalties. Still you think. How do you kill how do you score a short hand a goal if you're not killing penalties? He has been out there killing penalties for parts

of two or three seasons. You would think that one would land on a stick in the sweet spot and he'd shoot it in. It is one that one hasn't until year 38 or whatever. And it was barely a real short hand. It had just come off the four on four and it went in like a second later. So anyways. Joel Wall with a couple of big saves, kept him alive. Okay, where do you want to start with his clip on Willie? Yeah, so this is a longer one.

This is like over a minute long of him talking about Willie. So let's strap in here. It's good. Sit back and relax here. Yeah, about Willie. So let's strap in here. It's good. Sit back and relax here. Yeah, on Willie. A lot of conversations with Willie, which I enjoy. Great guy to talk to and listen to him. I think more than anything, it's like, I always want Willie to open up to me and tell me what he's feeling or what he thinks about the game and what we can do better and

things like that. He's got a lot of great ideas. Now, I may not agree with them all, but I want to hear them because there's something there that I might learn. These guys are smart guys and smart players. So, you know, Willie's, you know, it's a challenge like any player, but, you know, I wish, you know, I mean, you'd like to get that game he had in Montreal every night, but that's, you know, that's not reality. But he has the capability of doing it. This guy's edge work and his puck play and, you know, competing on pucks offensively is high end.

You know, he's a very good player. And, you know, it's always a challenge, you know, to try to get these guys to be more consistent every night that's a coach's job and it's not just Willie it's every player and like I said it's just try to I try to really have conversations with them daily I really do and that's you know I'm not trying to figure them out I'm trying to hear about more than anything Aristotle I will say he was in a talky mood today yeah yeah I'm trying to hear him out more than anything Aristotle I will say he was in a talking mood today. Yeah, yeah chatty Barube, but that is I'm not trying to figure him out. I'm trying to hear him out. What are your thoughts on that?

I think that's Kipper's mantra towards me for I think it's a test of times for for sure in terms of I think it's a test of times for sure in terms of Craig Bruby evolving as a coach here. Mike Keenan was never trying to hear you out. Or Alex Kovalev or anybody but really Mark Messier and Kevin Lowe. That's it. But I think Craig knows that at the end of the day he's at the mercy of Willie and Mitch this year and Austin. I don't know, I'm not sure where Morgan sits anymore, but I assume he's still got a voice

in there. I think McCabe's voice has gotten a lot bigger, louder, heavier in a positive way for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Tanovs of course. So they do have some guys in there with a little bit of wear and tear, but Berube is going to live and die by these guys this year. So I think Willie knows where he is in the pecking order here and it's very high. I'm not sure it's as high as Austin. It's at the same level as Austin or Mitch, but he's up there.

And I think this is a way of maybe Craig making him feel even when it's not going well, you're a big part of this. I hope it pays off for him because he's putting the work into it with him for sure. There's no tough love with Willie. I think that's great analysis. You know, I really do. I feel like there is no Toronto Maple Leaf Stanley Cup win without Austin, Mitch and

Willie being fantastic. Really, really high end, great fantastic. And I think the way to get the most out of those guys and anyone, particularly younger players today, is they have to believe in him and care for him and wanna play for him. And his best bet of getting that, I think is in the early stages of the relationship to say,

you just saw me watch you go through a 10 game spell where you were garbage. And did I bury you in the media? I didn't. Did I bench you? I didn't. I got your back, you have and did I bury you in the media? I didn't. Did I bench you? I didn't. I got your back, you have mine when I need you. It's his best chance at success. Can I ask you, what would William Nylander's idea be? I wrote that down. I have a lot of great ideas. I was like, I don't know.

What would a great idea about hockey be from Willie? Boy, our wingers need to fly the zone a little more. What if we stretched? Come on, we're breakaways for the boys here? What do you think? Idea about hockey be from Willie boy our wingers need to fly the zone a little more Come on breakaways for the boys here. What do you think? Oh, perhaps? You'll share them with us one day. Oh who? Ruby or Willie I do think Willie has a great hockey IQ He grew up around the game and he thinks it and sees it and all that I don't think he's Articulating fresh ideas, but Willie's Isn't his is it not as IQ not as skill It's when he's pushing or when he's really engaged The body language is the thing with him

That's all Yeah, well, I don't know body language. Well, there's sometimes he's just not pushing himself. He's floating. His feet aren't moving. Yeah. He looks a little disengaged. That's all we saw last week. Yeah.

It just looks to me not skating. Not skating the way Willie can. And he's one of the best skaters in the world. Yeah. And he's not pushing or not noticeable. Digging in. It's very noticeable. Yeah. That's the only issue I think but

it's as if he He doesn't want to deal with the alternative and the alternative is that he's not Coming to him with ideas or that he checks out. Yeah and star players have been known to do that on occasion from any team, any era. If you lose star players, you're very difficult for a coach. So I don't know whether or not for Craig Borubey, if his experience in St. Louis is coming into play at all. You know, Kai Rue isn't Willie. No, different tiers.

He might be the closest thing to Willie on the St. Louis Blues. And we know that that relationship soured and it didn't end well when Ruby left and Kai Rue gave him a couple of parting shots and of course. Don't you anymore. That's interesting actually.

He's a little gun shy since that experience. You look back on it. I'm not gun shy, but smarter. You look back on it now and Cairo said things probably he regretted. Barube probably regretted maybe saying a few things behind the scenes that maybe set that relationship adrift and maybe he's factoring it in in this scenario or situation with Nylander. I think so too.

I think that's where you get your education from and yeah, if that's helping him here, great. We were on this show last week. I think he does love him though. I do think so too. I think like they're, I think, you know, the way that he's talked about him basically since training camp that every time he's around him,

I don't know, that's just. It seems like he likes him more than Austin and Mitch. He's not talked about anyone for any length and he just went on a minute and 15 soliloquy with like the most profound thing he's ever said. Willie can do 10 things wrong in a hockey game but he can break the game open on the 11th time and that's all a coach really cares about is that does the 11th make a difference between us winning and losing and every time he's on the ice he is dangerous especially on Saturday draws attention like few players can he is in that McDavid, Dreisaitl, you can't sleep on these guys or else they will make you look bad.

And that's where Willie is and they're hard to find. Brewery's got one in Willie and he knows it and he's gotta nurture that relationship, that's all. I'm curious to know if Willie could work with McMahon and say Tavares probably because you got three shooters on that line. You know, I don't know how you figured it out. I'm not sold on him and Tavares. I'm not either.

Right? I'm not either. It's never been great. It's never been great. No. So Tavares playing third line center. You know what? It'll be interesting, very interesting event. What will the team look like by the time Tavares playing third line center. You know what? It'll be interesting, very interesting event.

What will the team look like by the time Tavares comes back? We think after four nations and where that fit, does it go back? Does Tavares go back into the second spot? I don't want it to, but I bet it does. I bet it does. That's just, I've been watching this team right you have for many years and all coaches just go What about Matthews Marner and Tavares and Neal anders anyone done that yet? I've got Aha hear me out and then when that doesn't work. It's like let's just flip the wingers

Is there a chance that there's? Success and some chemistry outside of John being in this lineup, and then what does it do when he returns? Don't know It's a ways away. Yeah, but maybe when JT Miller centers the second line to ours can send to the third line Oh, Riley Riley Riley or wall Riley Riley played 1643 or something to that effect And if you'll notice on the first page of your lineup there, I put the practice lines January 20th and Riley and Jake McCabe are paired together tonight. I like it. Okay, let's listen to Barube Clips 6 on that.

Well, when McCabe was out of the way, I was playing with Tana. They're good together. You know, they like playing together and just McCabe played in the right side last year quite a bit for you guys here in Toronto so not you guys from you know I thought you know we're gonna try them with Morgan it's you know Morgan's had a lot of partners this year and it's not his fault or anybody's fault. It's just how things go with injuries and guys finding the right shot guy to play over there. So McCabe's got experience and he's a very good player and defender.

So that's what we're looking for tonight. Another example where he could have easily said, we've got to get Morgan going. He's not we need more out of him. He did say he did say some more on Morgan, but we'll we'll get to it. But you don't you don't get that sense in that clip. It's about just making sure that he doesn't lose Morgan. Let's listen to this confidence anyways. Let's listen to the second clip on Morgan Riley clip nine, please, Derek. Well, I think coming in with the way we wanted to play and do things defensively and become

a better defensive hockey team, keeping the puck out of our net, we've asked him to, you know, less risk in his game. And, you know, I think he's, he's trying to do that and he's done that for the most part. And, but we also need him to produce offensively. And I think trying to get our D a little bit more active, a little bit more lately, I think it's been better with our D, get more active in the offensive zone, shoot more pucks, get more pucks in that. That's been a focus lately and it's been better. So I think you'll see his production go up a little bit. That is the most coach thing ever

and it actually makes me angry and reminds me of my days as a player where a coach says, we're trying to take the risk out of his game, but we need him to produce and be more active. Inherently there's some risk in production. Thank you very much. Just be less risky and also produce more

and be more active. Okay. But if we believe that Berube has asked his team from day one that we are gonna be more defensive and we're gonna worry about more things in front of our net.

And for the most part, it has been successful enough to get them in first place. How does he end up minus 16 or 15? He's going to the ice for nine empty netters against. So half of that's pretty irrelevant. He's like minus six. It's not good. I'm not saying it's good. He's going to the ice for nine empty netters against so half of that's pretty irrelevant he's like minus six it's not good I'm not saying it's good he's putting the ice for nine empty netters against yeah like I think it's seven or nine it's one of those two numbers it's a lot okay so and 10 is plus 14 yeah so maybe just get them off

the ice when there's an empty net hey you know could be part of the solution I mean if you're that worried about plus plus minus, if that's the thing that bothers you is plus minus, sure. What bothers me is every time he shovels a puck out of his own net. Yes. That's what bothers me. Yeah. You know, he has had the, I'm not defending Riley here.

I'm just saying he has had the least consistent partner. He's been playing, you know, of late with Philippe Myers. He's had a bad 10 game run. I do think that he has had the toughest adjustment to the Borubi system style of play, which he had a quote today where he said, they want us to stay closer to our net, like in the D zone, presumably, like they're not chasing out and trying to like shut down plays. They're trying to conserve. So to me, he seems like a guy caught in between who they're asking to

Be less risky, but produce more. He just seems unsure and so I don't know if you can play in a way Where you say to one guy you're the guy who gets to go But everyone else is gonna play like it's almost like you've accepted the fact that you're gonna Nudor him if you want them to not do it and you're not gonna get the production. You can't have it both ways. Yeah. So, I mean, he's in a tough spot. He hasn't played well. He hasn't adjusted well.

I also have. There's so much upside to him still that we have not seen. But you're going up against a really good team tonight and like one of those sneaky, really good teams in the league here and that was very good so you're now breaking up the best shutdown pair in the league to get your seven and a half million dollar defensemen going here you're putting Jake McCabe on his offside it's well no no no no no you're not trying to motivate Riley or try to get Riley going you're trying to have

multiple pairs that work and if you have 10ana Tana of and McCabe together you have one that works you're looking for two but I don't know I think you just put them on the bottom pair like who is on the bottom pair? Philippe Myers we don't play with Philippe Myers wait 1650 yeah that's lower than that yeah like I mean he's not playing well and he's like kipper said He's shoveling the puck out of his own net a lot They wait we talk about accountability with the forwards and all this stuff It's there's many nights from like is he gonna get another shift here like it's

It's a struggle fast for him right now, and I think he's got more to give but try McCabe and Ben Wah back together They were great last year put him on the bottom pair for a bit. Let him work his way out of it. Yeah, to my point, he's been on the bottom pair. But keep him there for a while. It ain't working to your point. We're trying, you know, the hope is to find multiple pairs that work.

I think playing him 20 minutes with Jake McCabe isn't the solution to a huge problem. I think we come here every day and say, I like experimenting, let's see what we can do. We haven't tried this pair, it's two good players. Surely the hundredth guy will make them better. Well surely the good defensive guy has a chance to. This is a great idea. A serving blue line for offense, got three points out of Oliver Ekman Larsson Saturday night. So maybe that comes into play as well that they just feel

like he's got some swag going on right now. Yeah. And I know he had nine goals last year. Like he's someone who can shoot it in the net a little bit more for them. Great shot pass into the slot for Robertson to put it home. You know what bothered me on that one? Robertson never went to him, turned to him. All he's...

Selle to the corner and then didn't even turn to him. He turned away from him after. This is all he wants to do Yeah, come on. The guy just gave you an absolute gift all about the selling now with these kids. Come on He did that was a body McMahon couldn't give nice credit fast enough on his goal all the way to the bench Robertson was this far from OEL and didn't even read knowledge. Yeah, it's an immediate like I'm sorry that two years old Kiffer That's an immediate turning point. That's you That's a great look immediate turn a point spot. Yeah in the sweet spot couldn't be nicer. We should probably go for Eric

Yeah, we'll go go to break talk a little Tampa. All right Eric Erlinson Erlinson. Yes, you got everybody Eric Erlinson. Erlinson. There we go. Well stop by after the break We'll talk a little Tampa Bay Lightning and you know Similarities no between Toronto and Bottom six. I think so. Yeah little Suspect will ask Eric after the break and also a Tampa hiding Basilevsky from Toronto. Ooh

afraid first question to him where's Where's your number one one gold tender against the Leafs? Listen. All right. We'll be doing some listening after the break when we return to real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Ben Ennis and I'm Brent Gunning. We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays every weekday morning, six to nine. It's the fan morning show Sportsnet 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the real kipper and born show.

This is our leaf hour edition. Let's welcome in Eric Erlinson, covering the lightning for lightninginsider.com. Eric, how are you? Thanks for joining us. Hey, my. Eric, how are you? Thanks for joining us. Hey, my pleasure guys. How are you? We're good, we're good.

So right back at it tonight, the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Tampa Bay Lightning. I just kind of mentioned that before we went to break that these two teams kind of look similar to me where we can look at a lot of high end world-class talent up front. Maybe the bottom six gets a little dicey when it comes to needing offense from them. And then the blue line can be hot and cold. But you tell me where Tampa Bay sits now in the Atlantic division. Well, it's funny, we talk about the high power offense, right? And what

will both coaches talk about? Well, how can we play better defense? How can we keep more pucks the play and they were very power play reliant last year. One of the best power plays is actually the number one ranked power play in the league, but they wanted to be better five on five this year. And you look at the numbers, you know, right before Christmas they were plus 25 on five. I think it's down to about plus 16, 17 right now at this point, but that's a big swing from last year where they were, you know, in the negative five on five. And you know, this team can score. You're right, they don't have the depth in their bottom six producing, but they got four 20-goal scores.

Anthony Sorelli soon will be the fifth 20-goal scorer that they have. So offense hasn't been the problem. When the lighting has struggled this year, it's been keeping pucks out of the net, net and they've been better at it and they want to get even better at it as we kind of get closer to March and April as the playoffs start to approach. For our Leafs fans out there who aren't aware, Tampa's first in the NHL and goals four per game, so scoring's still not a problem for this group. So as we move towards the trade deadline, best in the NHL creating goals is a great place to start from.

What do you expect the organization to be looking at to kind of make them a legitimate Stanley Cup threat here? Well, I think the two areas you're going to look at is depth on defense, you know, specifically maybe a right hand shot. You know, you look at that bottom pairing of Emil Lilleberg and Nick Purvix uh... you know they've had their moments and then they've had moments that were so good you know i i think they like their top four especially when jj mozer's healthy he has a big mister mass

uh... past month is not expected back uh... probably two after the four nations break uh... but they like your top four it's the bottom parent they want to find a little more stability with so that being area they look at in the other one is a middle six you know last year they found Anthony DeClair they felt they needed a top six. I think this year is a little bit similar in terms of a guy who can maybe fluctuate between a second a third line you know that that second line right winger it's it's been

Nick Paul it's been Connor Dickey it's you know they've kind of moved a few different players up and around there so I think that's that's an area they'd want to improve if you know you're looking towards March. Just to provide a little bit more offensive pop because I mean you guys know you get to the playoffs you have your top scorers and your best players need to be your best player but usually the difference on teams that make runs are what you get out of your depth players and the lighting could use probably a little bit better depth. So Eric what is exactly as a 35 year old Ryan McDonough brought them back? Is it done everything that they

they were hoping? Is he still at a good level where you can win a championship around him and Headman or is is he starting to look his age a little bit. Oh no I haven't missed a thing from two years ago when he was a big part of the team that won back-to-back cups and made it to three straight Stanley Cubs and you know for a guy that was in Nashville for a couple years for him to come back I mean he stabilized the defensive group he takes a lot of pressure off of Victor Headman Victor doesn't have to play as many of those heavier mitts that he has the past couple years, especially last year when Mikhail Sergachev was injured.

So I mean you just look at the steadiness. I mean I just think of Ryan McDonough, the way he plays is just professional. He just does everything very well, right? He's not gonna wow you, he's not gonna dazzle you, but just everything, whether it's blocking shots, whether it's that first pass out of the zone, he's just a calming presence. And yeah, you wouldn't know that he's 35 years old the way that he's continuing to play.

He's found a fountain of youth because he's tapped into it. And he just looks tremendous every minute. And he's taken a couple of p because he's tapped into it and he just looks tremendous Every minute and he's you know, he's taking a couple of pucks in the face this year And you know, he hasn't slowed down a bit League average save percentage in the NHL is around 900 this year Andre Vasilevsky is a 916 through 35 starts is Vassi back should Leafs fans be worried Well, he's not playing tonight. I know, I know. What's going on?

But I mean, you look at it, I mean, I think the Leafs have had his number this year. Like he got pulled in that game earlier this year. That was one of those nights where you're like, boy, he is not, he does not look well. I think he's, he is back in the sense that the back surgery they had last year, like usually takes a calendar year to kind of get your feel back.

I think he's back in that, in that sense that, you know, he's not, I don't know if he's as wildtastic on a consistent basis as he has been in the past, but I think he's back to being the guy that comes up with that save every now and then that maybe you don't expect him to save while still pretty much stopping everything he's expected to stop so you know the numbers are usually a little bit higher when we're talking about Andre Baden-Lessing right we talked about a safe percentage about 920 so but those

numbers I think show you that he's back to being basically the rock behind everything that this team does We're talking to Erica Erlinson from lightning insider.com covering the Tampa Bay Lightning Jake Gensel again a Very difficult circumstances coming in and trying to fill shoes not only on the ice but off the ice as well for for Stamp Coast He is a world-class winger, a guy that can put it in the net but again the transition from Stamp Coast to Gensel, how has it been on and off with the fans and ultimately has it looked like a move that has paid off for Tampa Bay? Yeah I didn't envy him having to come in and kind of be looked at as the replacement

for him, even though they're completely different type of players. You know, I think we knew at the end of the day you were probably going to end up with about the same offensive production from Jake as we saw from Stamco the last couple of years. You know, it looks like he's going to flirt with 40 goals by the time we get to the end of the season. And he's been a great fit alongside Nikita Kucherov and Braden Pointe. I mean, they've been very consistent when they've been together and they have been together for a good portion of the year. And he's like he's had a seamless fittings.

You know, you talk to people about Jay Gensel and the thing is they always bring up is the elite hockey IQ and when you can think the game and anticipate the way that he does you're gonna have a pretty good a pretty easy transition fitting in with the top line players like Braden and Nikita and you know he brings that veteran sort of savvy to his game so I don't think anybody now looks at him as a replacement for Stephen Stamkos, just because he's still different types of role. Like not that one-timer shot of a power play, he's more of a net-fund kind of guy. You know, he plays a different style of game and everything else.

So not that people aren't talking about the absence of Stephen Stamkos, but I think Jake's the way that Jake has played this year has really kind of helped ease that that move from losing a franchise icon into the way that he has played. What were expectations this year compared to reality? Like I don't know that I thought that Tampa Bay was gonna be a Stanley Cup contender, but looking at them now it's hard not to see it. You know the the pieces are certainly there and they seem able. they've had some weird stretches where they'll lose like four games in a row I think that happened not that long ago but it feels like they're still I have that contender in there yeah and they're in the middle

of a stretch right now they're playing 16 games in 29 days that will end at the end of this weekend with another set of back-to-backs that they have I think they felt they had the personnel to do it. Uh, you know, bringing back McDonough was a big part of it. Bringing against it was a big part of it. Uh, you figure on as we've had the last, he coming back and, and hopefully being as healthy as he has been. I think they had the feel of it.

And you know, I think you look around at the East, the Eastern conference. It's, you know, how many teams can you sit there and say are true, you know, the best of the best in the Eastern Conference? I think it's as wide open as it has been. The Atlantic has certainly been a little bit tighter this year than maybe the last couple of years with, you know, especially the one that Montreal is on and, you know, Ottawa is kind of right there in the mix this year as well. But, you know, I mean, you look at it, I don't, I think you can look at Tampa Bay and say they have as good of a chance as anybody else. As long as they can keep the fuck out of their net, I think they're gonna be a

team that can that can make noise once we get to the playoffs because you know they're gonna end up scoring some goals. If they can get to three, I think they're in good shape on a consistent basis. Eric, one more for me and it goes around a guy that we love playing his voice clips every once in a while on our show here, John Cooper. He's been behind the bench since I think 2013. And just how's it going still? Are they listening to him? It's been a heck of a run, but is there a sense of this go sour here?

There there might be some that go okay maybe it's just time for a different voice no matter how great of a coach we think he is. Yeah he's an amazing he's an amazing coach. He really is because you would think that especially in this league where there's not a lot of patience when things don't go right I mean you think back to 2017 and they missed the playoffs right and then 2019 with the sweep at the hands of Columbus you know maybe now it's time to make the change you can't get them over you know over the hump but he just he has adapted so much to his coaching style, how much he leaned on his assistance, but he still has this great strength.

He's such a key. He's got to relate to players and get the best out of him. I think if you look at the last two years in the first round exits in the playoffs, and some of these veteran guys, the headmans that are still here, and the Surrell Cubs, intently tuned in. And you can usually figure that out when teams deal with some of the stretches that teams deal with. Every team, no matter how good you are, goes through a point in the season where there's

some adversity. And the team has found ways to pull themselves out. I think because of how John Cooper can relate to the players, you know, he's, he built up this trust between them that even if they make a mistake, they don't feel like he's going to punish them. Not that you don't get punished if you can continue to make the same mistake, but as long as you're working hard and you're doing stuff to correct any mistakes He's gonna have that faith in you and that's still there. They still listen to him

You know, every coach is always hired to be fired at some point But I don't see that happening I'm soon with John Cooper the way that things are going and then continue to go with just how good he's been and you know You think of the tenure he's had and the number of games he's won and coached and then you know, a number of other teams that have went through. I mean, think about it, Marty St. Louis is what about the fifth longest tenured coach in the NHL and John Cooper coached him. So that's a good way to end the segment, Eric. Great point. Thanks for doing this. Enjoy the game tonight

Hey, my pleasure boys. Be well. Thanks. I appreciate it Is there already st. Louis the fit Ehrlich I love looking up the longest tenured coaches Let's see what we got here and he coached him. That's a Cooper was March 25th 2013 How many teams would fire their coach for crack at hiring him? Oh my God. I don't know, 30? No, but a lot. I still think before the end of John Cooper's coaching career, he will coach here. Yeah, I actually do too.

At some point. I don't think it's in the near future. I think he's probably in Tampa for a while longer. I think Borubi is here for a while longer. What the hell? Is Cooper like 50? Hey, hey, that's all we need here. Just another guy for a career ending contract here with a Toronto Maple Leaf.

It's true. Just a march on the San Diego. Just gotta do it once. Yeah. Just pay me. Just to see what it feels like. And you know, get my ass pissed. What are you talking about? He's like 38.

He's young, he's young, he's young. St. Louis is the fifth longest tenured coach in the NHL. Wow. He was hired February 9th, 2022, so not even three years into his term. Fifth longest tenured coach. Holy smokes. Is it Bednar after?

It is Mike Sullivan, Jared Bednar, Ron Vrindamore. Between the two. Still my favorite John Cooper moment was Nick Paul being interviewed in the Stanley Cup playoffs. Oh my God. And John Cooper coming in and going, get in the drum. And he's like, gotta go.

Nick Paul was doing interviews like, well, oh God. That was the best reality. Gotta go. Yeah, Nick Paul was doing interviews like, well, I'll tell you, oh God. That was, that's the best reality television when you can see that type of power and respect you have for your head coach. Like it was like he had been there since the deadline and he was like not looking a mess at his ice time. It was really cool, really cool. All right, thanks to Eric for joining us time. It was really cool. Yeah. Really cool. All right.

Thanks to Eric for joining us. We're not going anywhere. We're going to get into the Vancouver Canucks and how close they were reported by our Elliot Friedman that Vancouver real close to moving JT Miller. How close we'll find out when we return. Rick Dollywall, cohost of Donnie and Dolly, the team Czech Vancouver will be with us. What do you think? Is he gone by the end of the week? Yeah. Ooh, I don't know. I don't know anything. You'll get my opinion. You'll get

my opinion when we return after the break. More real Kipper and born coming up next. Don't go away.