Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Cracking the Kraken

Episode Date: November 1, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 4-1 win over the Kraken on Halloween and discuss Nylander benefitting from constant coaching, another strong showing from the new-look second line, Woll returning to form in his second outing and Benoit's slow start. Later, Sportsnet's Luke Fox (31:52) shares his thoughts from the game and delves into the Leafs' forward depth, the two power-play units, Nick Robertson's future in Toronto and Willy demanding more ice time.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we are clear the real kipper and born show nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo and we welcome back jennifer rolnick hey good to see jen good to see jen toronto maple leaf hour big win coming off Halloween were you able to kind of answer the door or take your kid out and catch all of it last night against Seattle or was it one of those nights where out of the corner of your eye

you're watching everything I taped them just in case because the kids are the way they are I missed the first period we were out doing the whole trick-or-treating thing. Kids were pretty excited. I watched it later. I have a story to tell you about what happened to my candy situation.

What happened? I live on a very busy road in Toronto. No children come to my place ever because it's just like right beside basically a highway. It's very busy. And so I went out on my step and I put out a bowl of chocolate. Like just like a bowl of chocolate you did not I did because you know I put up like I put up like a little skull and a thing like just to make people know that I like Halloween because I love Halloween so anyways I'm out there and Allie realizes that I put the chocolate in like one of our like nice salad bowls or whatever she's

like what are you doing so I went and I get a disposable cake pan. By the time I go inside and I go back out, half of the candy was gone, Kipper. I'm surprised half was left. Kipper, it was what? That's what I said. It was left in a minute. He was like. Why would you leave?

Like, you need a security guard to watch that thing. It was a minute. And I went out there and I looked one way, I looked the other way, and there was a woman walking up the street carrying and i looked one way i looked the other way and there was a woman walking up the street carrying a tote bag wearing like a totally normal outfit totally no person i went hey like i yelled i was like hey didn't look turn around some business woman just wanted 20 kit kats and she got all my candy they're all and then there was like five

left there was 30 she honestly had to pick up the bowl and go like this into her tote bag. That's scummy, man. That's really scummy. I couldn't believe it. I gave out the candy, and if you do not delegate the candy distribution, those little mitts will grab in like it's like a Tonka truck, man. It'll close in. Half the bowl will be gone. I'm like, hey, take it easy.

There's more kids out here. Kip's disciplining children at the door. But, like, I've had too much chocolate already today. Borny brought some in. Or I had a Reese. Or I had a Smarties. And then my Skittles. Butterscotch.

For the first. Full Snickers bar. Full. When did the full come out? I looked. I went to my wife. I'm like, I go to the store. I need two bucks for one of these things.

Why are we giving out full ones? She goes, it's for the big kids. The big kids. You guys have hit a new. When did this happen? The big kids now need big chocolate. Seriously. No, definitely not.

Definitely not. I will say we went through, let's say, call it 200 pieces of chocolate. Really? Between 5 and 7.30. And then the teenagers come and they triple that amount in the next hour. We just get cleaned out by the teens. 200 pieces of chocolate? Yeah, our neighborhood's Mardi Gras of six-year-olds.

Really? Yeah. If it were single me, the one that used to drink a lot, my neighborhood would be a nightmare. I wouldn't have been shocked last night if I saw a kid with a tip jar, you know? Because everybody tips now, right? Everybody wants a tip or anything. They bring the iPad around. I like that we're on old man rants now.

Top costume here. How about a little extra here? And what's the deal with oat milk? All these kids in there. They just carry around iPads. They spin it around 25% please for my Darth Vader costume. Is Gen Z the laziest generation?

All right. Ny andrew wanted more ice time no better way than to score a couple of goals and look back at your coach and say hey buddy like what else you need yeah and his coach still said no i'm gonna give you less ice time he played less than his season average last night despite that. And got yelled at by his coach. So, you know, Willie did his Willie thing. Pretty good. Of course. Overall, though, I mean, a solid win. Solid win.

Yeah, good game. So we did the ups and downs on the Leafs. You know, was it last Monday? So maybe 10 days ago, 11 days ago, we thought they were very, very good. Had a tough week. Then we weren weren't so sure after a couple wins yeah where are you on what the toronto maple leaves are uh no different than the last few years ago really good solid regular season team kevin barker win lots of games and get lots of points and be ready for the playoffs. Kevin Barker left here of Blair and Barker, and he said he wanted to know,

last show of Blair and Barker for the year. And he said, the Jays got it, or sorry, he said the Leafs got a chance? Yeah, you said yes. And I said, no, I didn't say no. I just said. No, you said no. He said not a chance, actually.

I said, what are we talking about? That's right. You didn't have the parameters. What are we talking about? Will they win the Stanley Cup was kind of the question and right now i would say still for me the lineup needs a lot of work yeah as is no not not good enough and listen i'm watching seattle i don't know what seattle is like is that a playoff team last night? I'm watching Chandler Stevenson get four seconds in the first period. Like, get eaten up alive off the faceoff.

That wasn't great. No, no. It was maybe the worst faceoff I've ever seen. He didn't touch Matthews or the puck. Go back and look at his feet on the play. There's four seconds to go. His feet are spread wider than I've ever seen in my life. Do you remember Paul Gostad from Nashville used to do that?

And Austin's sitting there going, are you kidding me? I'm just going to push this puck by the left foot. And you can't move. And you can't move. You are in cement. That's great. By the time he was able to kind of bring his feet back and up, the puck was in the net already. But good on Austin Matthews to sit there and go,

buddy, they're paying you $6 million to line up a face-off looking like that. The Kraken now 5-5, the one of two plus goal differential teams in the Pacific. I don't know. I don't know if that's a playoff team. If that's a playoff team, that looks like a wild card first-round loss team to me. I don't think we got the cookie night that we thought, right?

Because no Brandon Montour or Vince Dunn. Yeah, that hurts them. They're top two guys probably, isn't it? Outside of Larson. Gosh, I mean, come on. There's 20 minutes plus on both sides. But Seattle is a team that I'm not sure what they are. So can you sit there engaged now?

They got some good things going, momentum going. Tavares, Pacioretty again, Willie going well. What do you think of that line? It's not a line for me that I want to go in and try to beat the Florida Panthers with. Yeah. At the end of the day. And good on Pacioretty because he's giving that line what they need. He just broke Jared McKinnon too.

A big, strong winger who hits hard. Right? Yeah. I mean, hits hard and has an offensive sense. Can he do that all season and then do it in the playoffs? I don't know. I don't know either. I have to, like, I'm surprised by how hard he's playing

and, like, how much he's actually changed his game. Yeah. Because, you know, Berube asked this from him. This is clearly the role they wanted him to play. This is what they envisioned. He's a big guy, but I don't think he's ever played like this in his career, has he? Like, I remember watching a lot of Max Pacioretty. I don't remember the physicality being such a huge part of his game.

I think there's always a snippet here and there, but when you're scoring and you can shoot the puck in the net, I think the focus was always on production, production. And then he comes in here and it's like, we need you to play a role player. It's crazy though. The Leafs really don't have the scoring depth they thought they did going into the year.

It was like, maybe Bobby McMahon, who scored 15 last year, will be all right. Maybe Nick Robertson will find it. Neither of those guys have gotten going. Max Pacioretty's sixth in the points on the team now. He hasn't played very many games. They do need Bobby McMahon,

and they need Nick Robertson, and they need Nick Robertson, and they need Holmberg to step up and be very good, if not great, support players. McMahon may be the most mishandled player this year who hasn't got a chance to find his game, and they do need. Not that it hasn't been dire or anything. They're using him.

But I definitely thought this is the year he would get more opportunity to be a 20-goal guy next layer of scoring for them. Hasn't really materialized. Okay. So, I was just going to ask about Willie and the conversation that we had yesterday about how I was saying that, is this the guy that you

need to pick the fights with or whatever and as i was watching that game and as how hard i was watching him play in that game and how great i thought he was for long stretches of that game he has the one turnover that berube buries him for whatever you know i hate to admit this kipper but for the first time maybe you were right about something but uh this guy needs the i feel like he really does need the constant coaching and you know i i kind of lost that in the ice time conversation and i kind of lost that in all of what they were talking about yesterday at practice but it does feel he does respond to getting a kick in the ass that's what i mean how often can you kick his ass is the question i think that's what brube is trying to figure out and what i know about the sweet spot is with him but there's no

debate how great he was last night he scored two goals that were both tap-ins but outside of that he's flying around he's buzzing around he had good puck touches there you go he's you know getting coached here and it seemed to be working so i had to you know backtrack a little bit of what i said yesterday after watching him play last night okay let's get's get Kipper's Clipper in on Craig Bruby on this star winger. Well, Willie's played good hockey for us this year. I mean, I don't have a problem with his game. Like, you know, ice time is ice time. I mean, I try to use my bench best I can.

I think everybody's important. And so I try to, you know, manage the bench that way. People have roles. I use them in those roles. Willie played a good game tonight. The line was really good for us again. See, he can't emphasize enough the bench, the team, the bench. And I think it goes back to our previous

conversations jb where it's team a team b he's trying to get rid of that and the best the easiest way to get rid of that is by taking half your bench and including them a lot more and then it would have to come at some sort of sacrifice and early it's been willie's minute here or there yeah willie's minutes or mcmahon's or whoever but yeah and that's totally fine i think sam you make a good point it's like it's not the end of the world to see a guy take a little bit of coaching um you know they want their cookies too right they need their cookies yeah but like again so what you know. Yeah. But like, again, so what, you know? I know so what, but it's, so what is that it disrupts the team?

I've been on enough teams in an NHL room where if one or two of these guys start dragging their tongue in or their lip in the dressing room, it does have a negative effect. Yeah. It's just never been Willie. I mean, last night he came back and even the, I think, we probably don't have it, but he was asked about it. And they're like, you know, how do these conversations go when you try to approach chief? And he was like, it's fine.

We have a conversation. You know, it's like, well, he doesn't see what's going on here. He's just like, I don't know. It's pretty clear. He made it pretty clear. If I got an issue with my ice time, I'm not going to my agent. I'm not crying to my dad. I'm going straight to the man that controls it.

Which is great. Yeah, you love that. Yeah. I got no problem with that at all. I think it's a big boy move. Yeah, it is. And then clear it up and then move on. No, they're going to be an interesting dynamic.

We also have Ruby on that second line as a whole. I'm with you that I don't know how sustainable it is. I'm a little skeptical, but boy, no denying they've been good so far. Let's get Ruby on the second line. Pat Turetti is a physical player. He's getting in there and creating a lot of space for these guys, in my opinion.

And JT's really strong on the puck, right? You know, doing a good job there and really puts it into that. But I mean, it's a pretty solid line. Hate that if you're Nick Robertson. Just hearing that Pacioretty's creating room for a line that's having success. Like that's something you just cannot provide.

The play he makes on the boards to shield. Who was it that he shielded off on the boards? Is it McCann where the guy like he just puts his back into him, makes a play, they go in, they score the goal. It's just, that's literally just a guy being big. Yeah. And it's like, well, he can't, you know, Robertson. Yeah.

Just doesn't have that advantage. It's not a moral failing. It's like well he can't you know robertson yeah this doesn't have that advantage moral failing it's like you're not six two two whatever it's yeah yeah and right now like what choice does craig bruby or the management team have but to keep those guys guys together and you ride it as long as you can now they'll they'll decide when you either got to go to someone else on the second line or you eventually have to trade for someone on the second line but right now there's no rush and they're not putting themselves in a position to have anybody question their contributions as a legit second line in the National Hockey League. Been good. Pacioretty almost certainly going to get that 10-game bonus.

He's at eight already. We'll see if he stays healthy and they keep rolling. He'll be on his way to collecting both of his bonuses. But it's not like over the course of patch ready's career we've heard coaches say real physical player just consistently physical all every game yeah no and he is he's a big guy and he's carries some weight he he hits he hits hard yeah i mean nice if that holds up we also have another quote from bruby on on tavara's there, who he said has been pretty good about holding the pucks. Tavares tied with Willie with 10 even strength points,

which is 12th in the NHL so far this season. Let's go to clip five. Pretty solid. I mean, I thought that before he got sick, he was fine. I mean, the sickness, I think, affected him. He lost 10 pounds. So it was, you know, energy-wise and stuff for three games or more. But he's been solid.

Heavy on pups. Did we know he lost 10 pounds? I didn't know that. That's a lot of weight. Boy. Bad crab cakes? What the hell happened to him? I don't know.

That's a significant loss. I don't know. maybe that is related to some slower games there for him all right joseph wool played last night uh the pass the pass yeah oh yeah so your first thought was like he saw him all along or he got lucky no so in the group chat sam said oh my god what a pass or whatever and yeah it's tavara is in the slot i think he's trying to spin and whip that thing on the net and he just loses it off the toe yeah and it goes to willie i think that's a lucky one uh you changed my mind he did yeah i watched it a hundred times yeah with that in mind and i just i don't see the spot where he sees Willie and knows that he's there.

Like the way he's turned and the way, like, I guess it's instincts. He's just trying to get it towards the net. It turns out looking pretty, but he definitely just kind of towed that. Game seven overtime against Tampa Bay Lightning. That's him spinning fire. He's a spinning fire guy.

Now you made an observation about after the the goal yeah uh as they all got together it wasn't exactly willie looked at tavaris and said that was an unbelievable pass he just kind of just left so here's here's the thing so so you think willie said he was you're creating drama or whatever no i'm not no no i'm saying these people are gonna accuse me of this i'm not suggesting um anything but maybe willie thought he was just as lucky and he didn't really acknowledge that that was an unbelievable fact it was just crazy to me if i've ever gotten a backdoor pass from someone i go right to them or hey great play or whatever he like wait as soon as tavaris came in the pile willie was out of there not even a look at him not even a thanks not even a tip your hat.

Nothing. No. And when Morgan made a nice pass earlier, he was all over Morgan. So I was having my, what's going on there? My body language doctor. Yes. Interpretation of it was when he first shot it, he had this look on his face, like almost like this sheepish look that he couldn't believe how great of a pass it was.

Maybe they locked eyes or whatever. And he was just kind of embarrassed that he scored. That was what I kind of thought. Yeah, whatever it was. You're trying to create drama. Classic Toronto media. Classic Toronto media. Tension in the room, according to JB.

He heard it here first. I love it. Can we talk with Joseph Wolfe? I've been trying to start this conversation okay go uh did he play good uh steady yeah solid yes uh a good follow-up from a miserable game last week yeah against st louis that's holding it shoots it hard too 24 saves maybe 23 saves yeah he made some really he made some good saves the one that willie did turn over he made a nice save on a rush there um 26 to me a very very low event

game from seattle's half they had their expected goals were like 1.3 very low numbers so to me it was a great game to work him back in. It was like, here is a very conservative offensive team. He looked fine. So now. So now. The question is, it's a good start. Almost a shutout. If Pontus Holmberg would get in a shooting game.

He almost had a shutout against Boston in game six. Remember almost shutouts? Yeah. So what do you ask him? What do they do? Now what do they do? Go into hometown. St. Louis.

All coming off a good game. She got to play Stolarz, right? Well, I mean, it's a back-to-back, so they're both going to play on the weekend. That's true. That's true. I'd rather have Stolarz against Minnesota, I think. Minnesota just being the better team?

A little bigger, heavier. Yeah. Team coming off a back-to-back. Might not be sharp to start. My thinking is, Wall Saturday night and Stolarz Sunday night. Yeah, that works for me.

You buying that? If they're both going to get one of the games anyway, I think that's easy to sell to Stollers. Stollers, say, hey, you know, nothing personal here. Played well at St. Louis, this hometown. I'm sure everyone's going to go thumbs up to that. So, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. But, you know, looking at the way Wall looked last night

and the way that Stollers had started the year, you can really convince yourself and squint that the Leafs goaltending situation is very, very good. Sure. Very good. You just have to worry about Wall's health, clearly. But, you know, I thought Wall, the first game, was not very good and didn't look like himself.

And I thought last night he looked much more like what he looked like halfway through that series against the Bruins. It does feel like it could create a potential Swayman Allmark feel last year. Wow. I'm not saying they're going to put up the same numbers or... Definitely not Swayman this year. Right?

No, not Swayman this year. Not anything about Boston this year, but less about can they match the numbers or the skill level or whatever, but just the dynamic of feeling like you got two capable guys. And I don't know what the split ends up being 55, 45,

you know, 57, 43, but it's, it really seems now that if they snowball wool, that this is going to be a 1-1A, and you rotate. You go back and forth. These two tendies.

This is just as much as one game in, one game out, feel as any that we've ever seen with the leafs in the last uh 10 years yeah chanahan's uh yeah i guess you don't know no need to ride the hot hand just keep kind of giving them games i don't know that's the sense that i'm getting that like we we invested over 11 million dollars in joseph wall not so he could play once every eight days or 10 days. Well, let's listen to Craig Berube on Wolves game last night. This question, this wasn't about, like, he got asked by somebody, I don't know, I couldn't pick up the voice,

about sort of, like, the mentality with him and, like, having him be injury, with the injury stuff and, like, his history. And Berube, I would say bristle. Let's listen to the clip okay this is what he said uh on on wall i mean i think he probably approaches this season like he does any

season i mean get ready for the season this summer i don't i wasn't here before so i have no clue i mean i don't this guy's dialed in like watching him dailies um very professional very on top of what he needs to do to be ready to play and um you know so i i don't i really i'm having a hard time answering that question to be honest with you so they hate this narrative around him i mean but it's a real one and i guess he just like what's he supposed to say for sure yeah but like i'm sure there's a united front whenever the leafs people speaks to the media which is you know berube to the media every day like that but i'm sure the united front is to like let's not keep talking about the injury stuff. Cause every question of wall is like,

how are you feeling? Come back from injury, injury mindset, injury. It's like, they probably don't love that. This is the biggest conversation around the goalie. They just signed for $11 million for three years.

But the, the best way to kind of calm that narrative down is just put them in there, play them, play them. Let's start people talking about how good he looks and for them i'm sure they'd like to see that too right just keep tossing them over the boards um yeah so we have joseph wall yeah we got a couple on him starting in st louis you want to start with the coach or with him um let's do the one on playing in st louis clip one that'd be

pretty cool um yeah that gets a play at you know play play st lou one. That'd be pretty cool. Yeah, to get to play at, you know, play St. Louis at home would be pretty special, so I'm looking forward to it. So I'm looking forward to it. Was that a Freudian slip? Yeah, I think he thinks he's playing. I think he thinks he's playing. Which is good. He gave an interesting answer, too, when,

because somebody asked him about feeling the pressure with Stolar starting the way he was when he was hurt, and he gave a good answer on that, too. So clip two, please, Derek. You know, you can focus on that, and I think it's a bit of a waste of attention. And I think regardless of what situation you're in, you're always going to feel a little pressure. And, you know, that's what makes playing here pretty fun. I was just really happy to see him do as well as he did.

It's a team sport at the end of the day, and we're looking to win. And he did a great job of that. That's saying the right things. Perfect. Yeah. And he plays the piano. Can I ask? Love this guy. Leaves PR. Whoever sets up where they have their scrums,

move it. Because there is a malfunctioning fan at Scotiabank Arena that's just clicking above every media availability. If you play that clip again, all you hear to me, like I guess maybe I shouldn't have brought it up because no one would ever think of that, but all I hear is this malfunctioning fan above it.

They've seen this show enough to know. They're like, let's just ruin these clips. Let's make this a misery. Bring in the fan. Leave it to a producer to hear that. That's all I hear. It's all I hear. Anyways.

Doesn't seem like that. Right now, I think, not that they're worried about anything, but it should be the least of their worries right now on someone getting hurt again or feeling like their goaltending is going to let them down. That hasn't happened in a while since Joseph Wall came on board. And if you can calm the waters down on the getting hurt conversation, they are fine.

More than fine between the pipes. And the one thing, you know, my just overview of their season to date is, you know, I know they're just six and four but i feel closer to how i felt about this team at the start of the season than after that weird stretch in the middle just i don't remember them running away with games last year as often as they have this year like they ran it up three goals on the devils they ran it up three on the penguins they ran it up three on the kings on the lightning on the jets they were on the jets on seattle they've only played 11 games that's at least six games i named there where they're you know have a three goal lead

at some point it just feels like when it's going well for this group they're a good group and maybe part of that of feeling good about that, is that Austin has not gotten hot yet. Yeah, he's fourth on the team in points and has five goals. And he scored a terrific bank shot. I will say, like, you've played long enough to know, like, spin affects how you bank the puck off the boards. If you're a righty or a lefty, it's going to,

so for him, a lefty, it's going to spin up ice. Like, that's a pretty well-angled shot. I would imagine that he's tried that a few times. I would think so. boards if you're a righty or a lefty it's gonna so for him a lefty it's gonna spin up ice like that's a pretty i would imagine that he's tried that a few times i would think so he's on the ice every single year is probably for those type of guys like him and oveskin like gretzky over the years like you're like a kid at christmas running down the stairs on empty nets they pulled the goalie at five minutes left and it was like we'll watch the leafs here this is like piranhas they turned into the 97 red wings when that goalie went out they're hitting people and the play matthews makes it the blue line he

hammers somebody down wins a body's f3 scraping the ceiling looking for a one tee. The cookie monsters. It's a very real thing. It is a real thing. He is not, he's not getting the puck luck like the second line is getting right now. He's not spinning into. Yeah, like the goals Willie got last night, like Matthews hasn't had anything like that. No.

Not yet anyways. No. But you got to think like it's only a matter of time before he goes on this streak yeah he'll have a four game or four four game stretch where he has like eight goals or something that'll happen so uh blue line okay for you last night morgan's getting better ways to jump into the offense, which is nice. I don't know if he can end up with 65 or 70 points like he did once upon a time, but solid contributions. Because it's not fun to talk about players playing well, yes, I think he's been good.

I just want to bring up Simone Benoit. Have you had thoughts on Benoit this year? Do you think he's dropped? I do. I think he's taken a step back. You're not the only one that thinks maybe, i don't know if it's kind of not lost a step but he's just maybe a step behind where he was last year i think last year it was like he had built you know no one expected him to do this well in his confidence through the roof now he's second pair with mccabe they're

a shutdown pair you know they're like the bash brothers i think he really was in a good spot and this year is like okay you're back where you're supposed to be you're a third line guy you're actually going to carry a partner who's not been awesome yeah it's a bit much for him and i'm just going to say this is on my mind all the time with him i think he had a kid i think he had a newborn somewhere in the summer or something buddy you laugh it it messes with your sleep. 100%. I see my buddies. That's the type of thing where it's like you just don't feel as good for a while. I'm not saying this is his situation, but I don't know if Hockenpah in the background is making him feel like

looming. If he comes in, do I keep my spot? Is there a spot on this blue line for both of us? I look at the... And that's a real thing, right? I mean, you felt it with left wingers coming in, trading for one. What does it mean to me? I don't know if that's in the back of his mind,

but if it is, he's only human. I'm looking at the ice times for the defenseman last night. Jake McKay played 23-37. Oliver Ekman-Larsen, 21-29. Morgan Riley, just over 20. Tanev, just over 19. Timmons, 17-31. And Simone Benoit, 13-35.

Wow. So almost, almost, you know. I bet she's out on Saturday. Almost four minutes less than Timmons. If Huckabaw, please. Huckabaw, they went to the. He's not cleared yet. Him and Dooner.

Dooner. Him and Dooner. From now on, he's Connor Dooner. Dooner. Doons. Doing the show together for too long. They both went to the Marlies for a conditioning loan. All right.

You can play a couple of AHL games. I think I saw. So after the weekend. Then they'll get through the weekend. The maximum time for this kind of loan is six days or three games. Wow. And Marlies are in Cleveland on Saturday, and then they don't play again until November 9th.

So if you want to stretch it out for the three-game thing, like they have eight more days to play with here, right? If they're on a conditioning loan. So I'm sure that's what they'll do. Seems likely. Try to figure it out. People get hurt, right? And all of a sudden their problems solve themselves.

Yep. All right, take a quick break. Yeah, let's hit a break. We'll hit a break. When we return, sportsnet.ca's Luke Fox will join us. And then at the top of the hour, we bring back Off the Rails Friday with Doug McClain. That guy's been shut down. We've had a muzzle on him uh i can only

imagine where he's gonna take us should be fun should be fun in a while stick around more real kipper when we return hey it's ben ennis and i'm brent cutting we got you covered on all things leafs rafters and blue jays every weekday morning six to nine it's the fan morning show sports net five nine to the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Let's welcome in Luke Fox, Leafs and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. Did you make it home in time to go out and get some candy after the game? Luke? Nick, you're starting with a bit of a sore point.

So this was the first Halloween that my son did not go trick-or-treating. Is he too old? He hit high school and he had a hockey game. So I have no pillowcase to raid today. I'm looking for peanut M&Ms. They're nowhere to be found. I'm at a loss right now. Is that a very specific reference?

Did he see me at the break? I'll meet you. No, that's just my favorite. We're going to go raid JB's house after the show. Meet you there. How was the atmosphere, the Halloween atmosphere at Scotiabank Arena last night? It was okay. It was okay.

You know what? It was a very, like, business-like performance. There wasn't a ton going on in that game. It was just, I think the Leafs, you know, brought a B game, which is just fine. Kraken, pretty depleted team, missing Montour and Vince Dunn. And even when they're at full strength, there's not a lot of game breakers on that side. The Leafs played a pretty structured game.

You know, their star showed up and put a few in the net. And it was a pretty cruisy victory. It wasn't as electric as you might think. I was in Boston on the Saturday before Halloween and that was a little bit more lively. A few more costumes in the crowd. Is that not the exact game where you have elite, talented players and you just get two points? Like that's how you end up as a hundred point team like just there's a few games a year in the schedule where it's just like we

just have a couple guys they don't have yep absolutely i 100 agree justin and and you know what i think that's the kind of game craig ruby's fine with you know after the game he wasn't raving about how well they played he said there was actually a couple things on the tape that he wanted to go over with them. Joseph Vole was solid, but he didn't need to be spectacular. You know, their power play still doesn't click, but it doesn't really matter because they put a few in five on five. And I actually think we're going to see quite a few of these games, more of these games under Berube than under Sheldon

because I think that's the kind of game he's fine with. A little bit more low event, a little safer, and then you get the two points over a team that you should beat and you move on. A couple of wins for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Luke, on the backs of Tavares, Nylander, and Pacioretty, and not to take anything away from them, but is there a concern for you at all

that that next stage or that next layer to the Toronto Maple Leafs still needs to come in the form of McMahon, Holmberg, Robertson? Somebody needs to kind of step up a little bit because we do know on occasion that the old pros can still do it, but what's left in terms of where the Leafs need to go outside of the guys that have done it in the past

and they're still trying to do it in the present. Yeah, I think at some point they're going to have to get a third line going, right? It's like, okay, when Max Domi is the second line, when he's with Nylander, they're just fine, but Tavares isn't going. So you move Nylander back with Tavares, Pacioretty comes back in,

and then they get going because Nylander's the engine, kind of gives that group some speed. They put a few in in Winnipeg, and again last night. And then Domi's line is kind of invisible because there's not much there when you've got Holmberg and Robertson and McMahon. There's just not enough juice there. I think it's fine as is to get through the regular season, get into the playoffs, all that.

But at some point, I believe you need a second or third line center, a true center. Max Olme can do it for a while, but I think he's better suited on the wing. And you need another bonafide forward to give that third line some identity. Otherwise, you're constantly just juggling wingers and moving Nylander around with different guys to find some chemistry. Chemistry wears off. You mix it up.

But ultimately, I agree. I don't know if there's enough depth there to win four rounds in the playoffs. It's fine for now, though. It's funny. I was watching their new power play units last night, and it looked pretty good. Power play two looked really good, but it would like get to Bobby McMahon at a crucial spot, and he couldn't put it away. And at one point, it got to Max Pacioretty at a crucial spot, and he couldn't quite put

it away. And it's like, God, you should probably have their good guys on one unit. But I know that no one wants that. Everyone wants to see it a little bit different. What were your impressions from the broken-up power play units last night? Yeah, they got some expected goals, right? They had some chances. They did expect a few.

But it is kind of silly that we're looking for moral victories for this power play. Like, it's well below 10% now. I think it's one of the bottom three in the whole NHL. And you consider the talent, the amount of dollars invested in it. You consider the fact that it's not just October, that it was the playoffs, and it was a couple months even before the playoffs that they've been subpar. And it's really a head-scratcher, and it's something they need to figure out.

I guess to be positive, you say, well, the five- head-scratcher, and it's something they need to figure out. I guess to be positive, you say, well, the five-on-five plays fine, and a lot of nights they haven't needed it to score a goal, but it's going to come to a head here. And I think this is just them starting to throw stuff at the wall. The two units feels a bit like the nuclear option. They tried switching know, they tried switching out Ekman, Larson, and Riley a couple times, made that juggle.

And then you just hope something clicks. I think ultimately they are going to settle back on one star-studded unit. But, man, you just think, like, the sample size, eventually it's got to go in. 24 saves for Joseph Wall. Solid, if not spectacular. Is that enough now to put us all on that feel that these two guys now will play every other night or look like a one-in, one-out scenario

moving forward? Well, certainly this weekend. I think they're going gonna just take it a couple games at a time and and see where everyone's at what stood out to me last night is just how relieved and happy joseph wall was after that win you know just a second start you know first start he gets a loss wasn't that great probably wanted back. This one, he wasn't heavily tested, but he nearly got a shutout. Looked solid. His movements were sound. He looked like a goalie again. And just getting that one win under his belt is huge. Back-to-back this weekend,

you have to imagine, especially the way Joseph was talking today, it sounds like he's going to get the start in his hometown, St. Louis. a bunch of family and friends in the building it would mean a lot to him why not throw it to him i mean what's the big difference you need both goalies on this weekend anyway uh they're both coming off wins and then you just i would just go with the hot hand like if one of them has a bad game or if one of them is feeling a bit sore or something, then rest them and ride the other one. I mean, this is, I think this is going to be a theme that we're talking about for months here. So the one thing, you know, we're kind of dealing with is the aftermath of Timothy Lilligren, a guy that you kind of thought was going to go, ended up going.

The other name that is just that but forward is Nick Robertson. Are you of the mind that it's going to happen at some point, or do you think he's going to find a way to stick? I think it'll happen at some point. You do it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

I don't know what offers that are getting for him, but he seems back kind of back where he was under Keith. He's on the fringe like today in line rushes. It was him and Holmberg taking alternate reps on, on the right side today in line rushes it was him and holmberg uh taking alternate reps on on the right side of the third line and it's just like he hasn't established himself as an everyday leaf yet uh and then the the big tell for me is they go into winnipeg pretty big game hasn't been scratched yet and then the coach comes out and announces, well, it's a big lineup and he's a bit too small for us, basically.

And guess what kind of lineups you're going to run into in the playoffs? You're going to run into a big team, probably. If not first round, second round. So to me, it does feel very Lilligren-esque that it doesn't mean the player is a bad player. It doesn't mean he's not an NHLL or he can't find a better fit elsewhere. This is just screaming like a change, change of scenery to me for both sides.

What was the overall feel amongst you and maybe some of your colleagues about, about Willie and ice time and you know, whether or not this had a chance to maybe go in a strange direction. Certainly that's not the case. But did it raise any eyebrows that so early in the season, Willie would volunteer a nice time conversation about, you know, wanting more this early in the season?

Yeah, well, from where I sit, I love it, right? Because I love that kind of, you know, minor controversy or detail or something that... Selling newspapers. Yeah, well, I know Berube would like that stuff kept behind closed doors, right? He's old school. He's like, what happens in the room

or what happens in my office or my discussions with a player, I want that kept quiet those people on the outside they don't need to know it uh but i love that willie kind of doesn't care he's like answered questions truthfully yeah i kind of wish i was killing penalties again yeah i'd like my ice time to be closer to 20 minutes the way it was last year and i've seen these guys after games grab the game sheet and start looking at it. Like, you're telling me he's not looking at his ice time, comparing it to some of the other guys on the team and saying, hey, well, I lead the team in goals.

You know, I lead the team in points. My plus minus is pretty good. You bump me off the second power play. Why am I playing two minutes less than some of these other guys? So, you know, he's a confident guy. He can butt heads a little bit with the coach. But on the flip side, one of Berube's main things coming in here is to try and bridge the gap and make the bottom six.

We're talking about the bottom six. Get those guys more involved. Well, the ice time has to come from somewhere. And right now it's not coming from Matthews or Marner. Willie and john are kind of the ones taking a little bit of a hit here uh they might have to sacrifice a little bit for the greater good of the team it's funny like willie having been here this long he almost knows how to wield the market as a weapon you know like by taking you know taking that out of behind the closed doors or whatever it's like he's you know sent the media at Berube to answer these questions

and make it public. Yeah. To be honest, I don't know if that much foresight went into it. No, it didn't. I think he's just like, I got to ask a question. And yeah, I'd like a little more ice time. I've kind of been talking to him about it. It is kind of interesting, though.

Sheldon Keefe and Nylander had quite an interesting relationship, right? I think they knew how to push each other's buttons. Sheldon figured out ways to get the best out of them, knew that there'd be dips. And now it's like Berube and Nylander are kind of learning each other. And we're watching it play out in real time and and it's unbelievable how often those two are talking after a morning skate really more one more one-on-one conversations between the coach and nylander than any other player it's almost every morning skate it's often at practice and you know i think that you know

they have they share the common goal. They both have a strong desire to win, but I think they have different philosophies on how they see the game. One is very north-south. Willie has the ability to play some incredible east-west hockey. Like, his edges are phenomenal.

The other guys on the team wish they had his wheels. So, you know, we're going to see it play out. I don't think it's contentious, but I do think that they see the game of hockey differently. Ooh, it'll be fun. These two? Oh, yeah. All season long?

For sure. For sure. It's, you know, I do like this, though, that it's like they have one another's attention a little bit as they get that relationship sorted out. I played with Willie's dad in Hartford. Kevin McCarthy was a coach behind the bench and every game I'd hear Kevin McCarthy say the same thing

when Michael Nylander was on the ice. Yes, Michael. Yes, Michael. No, Michael. No, Michael. Yes, Michael. No, Michael. No, Michael. Yes, Michael. Yes, Michael. I think, I think, I think Ruby will have the same kind of feel all season long watching Willie.

More, more yeses. Yeah. A lot more yeses. But the occasional no, no. Yeah. Well, the beauty of Willie is he can take it, right? He can take the coach saying, coming out in public and saying no i'm i i think you have enough ice time i'm gonna try to get you out when you deserve it or the camera catching the coach you know ripping into him if he has

a turnover on the offensive blue line or whatever he can take it he's he has thick skin and it doesn't bother him so a 1730 from barubi last night's a statement the kid comes out in the media says i should play more and he says i think you'll play 30 seconds less yeah but so so what if these stars were getting well over 20 in a game that's kind of a three nothing cruise control game we'd be saying yes though right yeah this is this is too small picture. Rest them. We need them fresh for the playoffs. We need other guys to feel important.

So it's kind of like you can't have it both ways. Great stuff, Luke. Thanks for doing this. Enjoy your weekend, and we'll catch up soon. That's Luke Fox. Have a good weekend, guys. Thanks. Thanks, Luke.

Appreciate it. SportsNight.ca. So you had mentioned earlier in the show about the handful of games that the Leafs have been up two, three goals. That's when you spread the wealth. Yeah. You give it to the other guys. That's a good point.

Give it to the other guys. So if they've, you know, minutes have been down, like last night, they jump out to their 3-0 lead, right? And use your bench. Yeah. So, Matthews now after, what, 10 games? He's on pace for, what, 35 goals? Is that right?

Does Berube really care? No. No. Not at all. Now, would Austin care? Sure. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Just the least power play is now second last in the league. Wild. I mean, but you watched last night. It was pretty good. The worst in the league is the Buffalo Sabres, who are worse than the least amount. 6.9% for the Sabres.

Are the Oilers still really far down there? The Oilers have heated up to a 13.3%. Okay. But the Leafs are 8.8%. Tough to do. The Sabres are 2% worse? How? If you would have told me the last three, four years in the playoffs,

the power play would consistently stink in the playoffs, I would have told you, you're nuts. But after watching those same guys disappear when it's needed the most, should we be shocked that it's off to a really poor start? Well, the reason we should, Kip, is because it's been amazing for seven regular seasons in a row. Yeah. No guarantees.

Hey, they got a top 10 penalty kill, though. That's good. That's nice. But, I mean, there's some guarantees when the same players are there who have been good. There's got to be something, like, fundamentally wrong between three or four or five guys. I almost like the idea that it's not figured out right now

and it's red hot right now. Wouldn't it be so great if it stunk all year and they got red hot in the last three games of the year? And they're like, yeah, we kind of, I think we're kind of finding it here much rather than, God, it's been good all year long. I don't know what's going on. Can I just remind you guys that hope isn't a strategy?

No, no, I love that take. It's very true. But I mean. You know what? They should actually put that like on the, you know, like the play like a champion today. That should be as you walk out of the least dressing room. Hope isn't a strategy. All right.

Because that's all I've had my whole life when it comes to watching the league. What's the plan? I guess I'll just hope really hard. Okay. We're just warming up here on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. We're going to take a quick break. We'll welcome in Doug McClain. Oh, boy.

He's in Florida, and he's itching to talk. Also, in the second hour, we will be taking texts. Right. 590-590. Give us a message. Tell us how you feel about Sammy and JB. Leave me out of it. That and more when we return after the break.

Real Kipper and Born.