Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Crucial, Hall of Fame Weekend

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a look at the Leafs' matchup tonight against the Flames, Toronto's lineup with McCabe returning and Klingberg getting the night off, and Calgary showcasing Dan Vladar and Nikita Zadorov for potential trade. Should the Leafs sell high on William Nylander - or even Mitch Marner - for a defenseman? Later, they are joined by Doug MacLean (29:27) for Off-the-Rails Friday! Mac shares his thoughts on the Leafs' defensive struggles, how much blame falls on Keefe, Ryan Reaves' diminishing impact and the desperate situation in Edmonton after losing to the lowly Sharks.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

off the rails friday does it feel like it's off the rails this week well your mic's not on so that's a good start okay the best part is getting to lower your standards for your performance for the day that's my favorite part of off the rails this week. Oh, your mic's not on, so that's a good start. Okay, the best part is getting to lower your standards for your performance for the day. That's my favorite part of off the rails. And we got Doug McClain to thank for that. Yeah. In about a half an hour. Looking forward to having Doug, always.

Welcome aboard to the Real Kipper and Boren show. We are on Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. You can always download us wherever you get your pod. And today, of course, especially today, when we're out of material at about an hour and a half, we need your texts. We do.

590, 590. Give us some thoughts and ideas because we will have exhausted ours by then. Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. We usually get some good stuff, too, that leads us down some strange paths. Yeah. It's nice. I mean, we're talking about how we have nothing for the back half of the show.

What a tease. We got nothing. So, by the way, we do have quite a bit. For those who have been loyal listeners to our show the last three years, they've caught on a long time ago. They know what this is. Sammy, they don't need me to make it abundantly clear to them. I mean, we have Mike Gartner, an NHL Hall of Famer, in studio.

How cool is that? So we don't have nothing. No, no. Doug McClain will drive it in the ditch, and then Mike Gartner. Winch it up and pull it out? For sure. Okay.

For sure. And the most important part is I have a working cell phone as a producer now. Unbelievable. And no case, which makes me very uncomfortable. It's not my phone. Are you going to get a case? No.

You're going to have a no-case phone? Hell yeah, baby. I'm loving life. Oh. All right, JB. Text us it 590 590 as you alluded to hall of fame game tonight yeah what does that mean what what it means is the leafs and calgary have to find a way to not turn this weekend into the hall of shame okay fair enough does that mean a different goal song too because Because it's a different theme night? More so because this is our edition of Toronto Maple Leafs.

We'll focus on the fact that they play tonight and tomorrow night. Tonight against a team that possibly could be feeling a lot better than they did the last couple of weeks with a fairly solid win over Nashville earlier this week. So they're coming in, I think, feeling a little better than they did the last couple of weeks with a fairly solid win over Nashville earlier this week. So they're coming in, I think, feeling a little better. Then they go into the red-hot Vancouver Canucks with a solid win over the Ottawa Senators, a team that beat the Leafs earlier this week.

So you tell me, how critical are these two games when it comes to the temperature in the water? For the Leafs, you're saying? Yes, for the Leafs. I mean, very critical. You're looking around Canada right now, and Jay Woodcroft is answering questions about his job because they're struggling.

Struggling. That's a long word for it. Yeah, that's an understatement. They lost the Sharks boys. I know we're going to get to that, but holy smokes. Everything is against expectations when you're a coach, and the expectations is that this is a 111-point team who added some good players.

They're not looking like that. So, yeah, they lose again tonight. Heat, you know, ramped up a little to another degree. To me, it's if they lose one or two of these games, or depending on the order they lose them in, if they win tonight, lose tomorrow, you're now going into a five-day break where there's nothing to talk about other than this team struggles.

And I know they'll be out of the country. They're leaving for Sweden. I'm not sure when they're actually leaving for Sweden. Do you have any insight on that? I'm not sure when they will be. I'd imagine the Sunday. Like right away? they lose two games i would imagine uh warm up the plane next warm up the plane five minutes out of here five minutes before the third period finishes

the plane is warming up sheldon's on a moving walkway taking questions from luke fox yeah yeah we'll get back to you on that yeah that's that's when they leave, Sam. Okay, so quick. If they lose the next two games. Quick. Yeah. I just think that there's a lot of room for them to have bad conversations. If you didn't know, they're going to Sweden next week, and there's no games for the Leafs. They play Saturday, and then they play again the following Friday at 2 p.m.

By the way, Kip and I are working the Saturday game. The pre-show. Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. At 8 at 2 p.m. By the way, Kip and I are working the Saturday game. The pre-show. Sunday. Sunday. Sunday. 7.30 a.m. No, no, no. The pre-show starts at 7.30 a.m.

We will be on air at 7.30 a.m. Sunday morning. Oh, my God. Really? That didn't come up in your contract discussions? That's like the league hide in the first round pick on and now that you're locked in is not there's no way to predict this i don't care if you're just thinking about it for the first time or you've been around the game for 30 years like will this trip be one of those trips where it couldn't have come at a worse time?

Or it might be a blessing in disguise. See, this is the thing. They have the out. If they were to lose two in a row and all of a sudden they're 6-7-2, you would have the conversation of, you know, we're going to Sweden. We've got time to really watch video and find ourselves. When we come back from vacation. We video and find ourselves when we come back from vacation we'll deal with it when we come back yeah you know you do have the chance to say here

is a delineating point in our season and we're it's going to be different after this it's only i think it's only like a five six hour flight it's not necessarily i am sweden sammy yeah Not necessarily. Is that me? Yeah, Sweden. Sammy. Yeah. How long does it take you to get to... Toronto to Stockholm can't be much more than five and a half, six hours. It really is. I have no help there. It can't be much more than Toronto to LA or Toronto to Vancouver. Again, I have no help. All I know is the world is large and flying from Kelowna to Anchorage, Alaska,

which is basically, you know, above you, was like three and a half hours. So, I don't know. So yesterday you told me you can't help me with Pacific Mountain Central Time or Eastern Time, and now you can't help me with a simple question of what do you think it takes to fly from Toronto to Stockholm? I think it takes seven and a half hours.

It takes longer than that, apparently. yeah 10 hours are you saying with connecting flights with a connecting flight they're gonna be on a concord is that where it's gotten to the leafs now they gotta do connecting flights layover in montreal and iceland i think it's not necessarily the amount of hours. You're saying it's not Australia. It's not Australia. But at the same time, it's not like you're, it's the time change that really messes you up. Yeah.

So if they leave on early in the day, then they're going to probably want to fly in and just practice right away or something. Yeah. Oh, well, they have the sleep doctors. This is their Super Bowl. This is the hockey operations. They're like, oh, finally.

Rich Rotenberg, their guy. Oh, yeah. It's like, oh, we got our time. Relevant baby. Let's go. It's our time. Sweden might be a million miles away compared to what we think we're in for tonight or Saturday night. So let's start with tonight and the lineup.

We will see changes. Let's go to Sheldon Keefer, our first Kippers Clipper of the day, clip one. So just the lineup of papers, which I imagine you're going to ask about. McCabe is good to go. He'll be in tonight. John Klingberg has been working through some injuries

here the last little bit, so today is a chance for us to give him some time to work through that. We'll have a better sense of where he's at tomorrow, but he won't play tonight. Otherwise, the lineup's the same. Klingy's hurt. How do you feel about him saying that Klingberg's hurt? Should we be that surprised when, I don't know't know 24 hours ago he was talking about we

need to protect him is that not the ultimate protection ah that's a good connection there yeah that is the ultimate protection i think to be honest not a stretch to say that we don't believe that he's too hurt to play right i mean after the game clingberg talked about no the next day they had a full practice and he was a full participant, normal jersey, you know, full skate. And he said, I just have to be better. And no one mentioned any sort of injury. This is, I think, to your point, pure protection, which kudos to Keith for giving him that shelter. I don't think he had to do that, did he?

Like go out there and be like, he's hurt? I think the protection, like you mentioned. No, he could have been frustrated with him and say, you know, hey, he's not playing well. We need better. I guess guys get motivated in different ways, and he's got enough of a feel of him through the first month of the season that he's not going to be like, this guy needs to be better.

He's sitting out because he needs to be better. He has to go the other way. So I don't know. It's the right move. This is a comment I'm going to vote to make that is not based on Klingberg or Sheldon Keefe making that announcement. Generalization. Just a generalization is that it just seems to me league-wide,

it just seems like an easy out to say a guy's not 100%. For sure. And do you think that happens more now? Does it seem like it's more now than it's ever been well i imagine the media clamor in general is louder now right there's more social media channels immediacy um yeah so i think there's more reason to say that guys are not well okay let's follow it up with uh sheldon keef on the injury and how much he thinks it's really affected Klingberg's play. Yeah, we think so.

It certainly hasn't helped him. That's part of what we're talking about. When I talked the other night about protecting him better, it's part about our team play and the other guys on the ice, but it's also just knowing what he's been working through and trying to help him with that. I wonder if this comes up as like an excuse or something like they have klingberg in the office and they're doing video and he says yeah

you know i'm also like my my hamstring's been bugging me a bit or like give some passing excuse and they're like oh has it okay perfect we have a note do you remember what was it that happened to him in the preseason because remember he played the first game and then he missed the rest of the preseason didn't he or like most of the preseason and he came back his first game back was night one against the habs and i don't remember what it was that was hurting him but like i don't know maybe it is well he's looking it up he's uh if i'm not mistaken he might have had two hip surgeries oh if not one for sure i remember over his career yes okay yeah so i don't know is it something reoccurring is it new is it old i'm not again i'm just spitballing here yeah but this guy has had some major doozies yeah i can't see what exactly sam

but you are correct um he was out for the preseason started skating around the fifth and was back on the ice by the 11th when they got started so i'm i wouldn't put it past the leafs to maybe I don't know, find a way to put this guy on long term. Oh, what? I'm just, again, I'm spitballing. Like when you got Can they check your Sweden ticket and it says Robitaille Island on it? Is that a layover?

Listen, I don't We are dealing with a team up against it. And I'm not here to pretend to tell you that I know the final or the smaller details of how this works. I heard some things.

But, you know, if they are working on something and they think that they might need help now, what an easy way to alleviate your cap if you put him on long-term. Sure, but the player has to go along with that. If he's not feeling well, we're only talking about, how does it work, 10 games or 24 days? Yeah. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. If he's not feeling well, we're just floating things out. We're just floating things out. Would that be an option to, to help facilitate something that might be bigger down the road? Do we,

do we feel like, like Brad tree living right now would look at his defense and say, I can't wait to American Thanksgiving. I got to try to do something now. Yes. I do think they would look at their d and feel that way you know i even fully healthy with lilligran or connor timmons like it's not it's not good enough defensively so i could see there being some desperation on the other side of the puck is another guy who's playing tonight uh who is playing tonight is vladar and Markstrom's not for the Calgary Flames. So Markstrom not playing

but healthy. Interesting that he's not even dressing. Dustin Wolfe is the backup. Been called up from the American League. He's been a goalie of the year two years. Two times in the AHL. The Vladar thing may be a bit of a showcase tonight. I think

they in a perfect world, they will move Ladar. This season? Wow. Yeah, why would you wait? To the Leafs. No, Al. I think it's too early, to be honest with you,

to think that you need to go down that path because Samsonov should get more time to work whatever he's still working on. And I think that you have to be really confident that you can't wait any longer for Samsonov. And I don't think that they're there yet. But Vladar will get moved, and it's a reasonable contract he's sammy i think he's 26 years old 27 it's not like he's 33 he's not camp talbot so he he he would be he would be a a goalie that i think a few teams would have interest with uh with the with a mid-25 roster.

He's 26, and he makes 2.2 this year. And he's played well against the Leafs. Doesn't he play well against the Leafs? He's got a decent record against them, I think. He's also 6'5", which is helpful. I'm under the impression that Brad Treleaven really likes him a lot. You know, his numbers last year are not great, and he's not off to a hot start this year,

but he has had some stretches in the NHL where he's looked like a very good goaltender, so it's still a gamble is all. I'm not saying that you know Vladar is better than Samsonov by any stretch. So to your point about knowing for sure for the Leafs, what's Samsonov have played? Seven NHL games this season?

Six, something like that? Yeah. And it hasn't been good, but you got to give a guy like that with that pedigree and history whatever the chance to kind of play out of it a little bit here before you do something drastic well play out of it and much like the edmonton oilers uh the temperature's so hot there that uh you almost have to alleviate it by making a the easiest decision that's just to offload jack campbell temporarily or maybe not i don't know what we'll see but it's so hard to still judge completely on your goaltenders in edmonton and toronto when they've been so bad defensively it's a very good point that you know so often coaches get fired because their goalies

can't make a save and coaches get jack adams trophies because their goalies are all the saves yeah make all the saves like it's it night and day for for head coaches so you can see why goaltending woes are leading to losses i can't wait to talk about edmonton in the second half anyway wild but so there there there is a there's a lot of people today leaning towards the the Leafs and Calgary getting together for a trade uh Elliott I think started kind of that a little bit with the door off and the possibility of Chris Tanov coming here they need some offense does that uh and shoots it in the net the other night i don't think that uh you know calgary's ready to mail it in for their season ticket holders just yet right but when they're ready i think people will be looking towards brad tree living to go get

a couple of guys i like the door off umov but I'm not sure what he is still like he's a tough big strong guy tough but do you really believe he's a top four type of guy yeah I do I do wish he was a little meaner at the size he is

but he can be mean there's a side to him with a bit of a short fuse it happens sometimes he scored 14 goals. You know, like he's not a one-dimensional guy. He has possession numbers. He drives play really well for the Flames.

You know, I was talking to the guys in Calgary this morning on their morning show with Rusick. And you're like, you know, you're talking about Zdorov. We had the conversation about the possible trades between the two of them. And Rusick's like, you know know people that don't watch it closely like he's just as has his inconsistencies and his issues just like anybody else right you're not watching it every day so it's like i i get that sense too that i think on a on a deep team zadoroff would probably be your third pair guy not on this team no no i agree with that he's i can't have with the top i can't have the least

bring in another guy who you tell me is playing above their slot like jake mccabe who is a very good defenseman yeah and in your mind a third pair guys yes you know i can't do it again i can't bring i don't know where he where he would fall on that for... On the McCabe scale? No, Zdorov for bringing him into the Leafs. But they do need a top four help in the worst way. And whether it is out of Calgary... 230-pound 28- 28 year old who can score

yeah sounds like chara to me i know it's not chara i'm not saying chara but it's like those guys find it all 14 goals 14 goals that's that's top four kind of numbers and when you're that big i do think that you talk about how long it takes for d to find it like yeah i i don't think his best has been seen yet but the only But maybe that's why I keep thinking the Flames are good and they're not. We can all sit here and say, well, here's the Leafs wish list here. What is realistic here on assets that Kyle Dubas left Brad Treeliving to work with here? And we talked about Nick Robertson. It's Robertson, Cowan, Minton, a couple of draft picks that are left.

That's not much. So if you were to go and get a legitimate top four D, JB, what are you giving up? Tell me. Well, yeah. To me, it's do you believe less in Minton or Cowan? Like I know Robertson is a no-brainer. If someone sees him as a plus asset, you would do that in a heartbeat because he hasn't proven that he can do it here.

And there's not really room for a winger who scores here. So, you know, that one's a no-brainer. But, yeah, one of those two guys. And then it's Minton for me. Yeah, that's the one you minton if you build if you built his stock up to the point where other teams are impressed played nhl games at 19 he's a captain that that's your chip to a top four yeah i could see that and i not cowan cowan will play for the Toronto Maple Leafs and be impactful. He will be Tyler Bertuzzi-ish

by the age of 20. Which version of Bertuzzi? The good version. The good version. The one that you thought you were getting this year. The Leafs have their first round pick this year. No second. No second next year.

Or the follow. They don't have a second. No second until three years. Yeah, three years. But they have three fifth rounders this year. First rounder this year and no first rounder next year. Correct. And they have a 2026 first rounder.

When was that? Yeah, that was in the Jake McCabe Lafferty. Yeah, that's kind of bare cupboards kind of stuff, isn't it? No second-rounders? Absolutely it is. Yeah, well, you know, so yesterday I worked with... Lots of good players go for second-round picks. David Amber, and, you know, spent the night arguing with him.

You know how passionate DA gets about his takes. We were talking about the Leafs and getting one of these people that we're talking about, an elite defender, and what do you do? You you know Kyle Dubas was so hesitant for all those years to ever break up the core four you know and a lot of people speculate that Brendan Shanahan is one of the guys who didn't want to break he wants to see them through he believes in the four of them together and whatever so it hasn't happened there's an article in newspaper today, Damian Cox cover of the star is now's the time to sell William Nylander. DA made a similar point,

not that to put words in his mouth and, but he had some good logic behind it. You wonder if they struggle enough for long enough, the Leafs, if it doesn't get to the point where Dubas wouldn't do it, but tree living says we're just not constructed properly, which people have been saying for years. We actually have to do the hard thing that people have been saying for years. We actually have to do the hard thing

that people have been saying we should do forever. That to me is, I like the idea of the Minton thing. Like, can you move him and add to this? But there's a lot of people who think that it's just constructed too top heavy, too forward based. That's been going on for years. It has been, but Tree Living's been here for 12 games.

I'll tell you what's in my opinion changed somewhat i think i think the blueprint's fine but it's the detail in the blueprint that's changed and if you ask me today if you went to the top four depth chart it was for a very long time matthews and marner matthews and marner matthews and marner i think personally if we got brendan shanahan and brad tree living you know in a room with some truth serum a couple shots of tequila i think it would in their minds it would go maybe mats, Nylander, Marner, Tavares. Which means that they would see Nylander as a higher trade value

or maybe even consider trading Marner. Keep. What? Yeah, I do. I'm telling you, my vibe is that they want to sign Nylander. Yeah. And if it's going to cost 10 or 11, I'm not sure if they still see Marner the way they did even a few years ago.

Well, and if you were trading Marner, the value to trade him is through the roof compared to what Nylander is, right? Nylander has no contract for next year. He is, I would say, judged as a one-way player, where Marner is a two-way guy. You know, like you could, then you're talking about a big trade. I think there's a lot of love for Nylander right now. Boy, geez.

But in talking to D.A., so hold on. A Marner trade terrifies me way more than a Nylander right now. Boy, geez. But in talking to D.A. So hold on. A Marner trade terrifies me way more than a Nylander trade. Oh, yeah, for sure. He could win a hard show. But when you think of the return. Yeah. But what always gets me when having these conversations,

and I've had this conversation with basically everyone who follows the Leafs. They always say you've got to trade him for a number one D-man. You've got to trade Nylander. You've got to trade Marner trade him for a number one D-man. You got to trade D-lander. You got to trade Marner. You need a number one D-man, top pair D-man. And it always comes down to, give me the name.

Give me the guy. Give me the guy you can get. And no one can do it. I've never had a conversation where someone goes, well, you go get this guy. Because everyone wants to keep their number one D-man. And there's no, you know,

like the, in theory, I agree. If you could swap out D-lander or Marner for a number one D-man And there's no, you know, like the, the, in theory, I agree. If you could swap out Nylander or Marner for a number one D man, I'd say, let's go. But it's just not that easy. You got to keep in mind though,

that Marner has a full, no move. Yeah. So anyone that wants to link them to say Calgary, uh, don't waste your time. Yeah. You know what?

The best one I've heard is, is Slavin. Jacob Slavin is like my, you know, he's a number one D, offensive time yeah you know what the best one i've heard is is slavin jacob slavin is like my you know he's number one d offensive d you know fancy tj brody basically yeah but anyway i don't know that just the thought of that is it's a one that i wasn't considering having to think about right this moment but to me that's one you're next if you're never gonna win it that this team unlike previous versions is fundamentally more flawed you might have to do something more draft or you you just have to find a way to uh get tavaris's contract out as early as september october and you take a crack at nylander with matthews and marner moving forward see i, I love that, but I don't...

We always just say we can't do it. You know, the team can't do it because of the no move. But yes, that is the solution. If you're going to keep three, just based on age of Tavares, not that he's not contributing, you would rather keep the three young guys. Well, he's... Young guys.

It's 11 million for, you know, a point a game. 75 points and, you one way to play most okay let's uh sked sheldon keeps uh thoughts on what he's going to see out of the calgary flames tonight you know i was uh talking to tree a little bit this morning just i did a pretty good job building this team it's it's uh it's deep down the middle, deep on defense, competitors all through the group. So, you know, there's challenges there with the center depth they have, the defensive depth they have.

You've got lots of guys that can move well, help on offense, and also compete and do a good job defensively. So, yeah, there's some challenges there. Probably the biggest one, though, is, as I said, they're trending up and developing belief in what they're doing. That feels like a passive shot at his GM. He's like, he did a great job building this team.

Yeah, what are they? 4-7-1? You can ask a lot of people in Calgary. How highly competitive they are? I get a different answer. This is the opposite of a revenge game tonight because it's like all the guys that Treliving made insanely rich are playing against him.

Yeah. It's like Hubert Ode, the thank you game. They just roll over for the Leafs. Hubert Ode, like, Kadri, Wieger, all got these huge deals. So maybe it's the opposite of a revenge game. I do like Wieger. You do? Yeah.

I would think they're the true American Thanksgiving. That's when they decide to sell. So we're two weeks away. I think... By the way, the best North American holiday of the year, U.S. Thanksgiving. Yes. We mess up up here.

Yeah, it's not even close. They just do it. Take day off and football and pure gluttony yeah what's friday work day okay yeah loved it when i play yeah they do two turkeys yeah double up yankee thank you and then when i found out i have to fly my kids home twice that hurts are they coming back at this one too? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, they got it. Frequent flyer. There's always like two Thanksgivings that they have to come home to. So it's like, no, all of a sudden I don't like it as much as I did when I played. Yeah, fair enough.

Yes. So looking at tonight, do we want to hear the Robertson, how he's been? Should we go and get to Doug? Is he ready? No, we got to hit a break here at some point, don't we? All right. Okay, let's hit a break because I'm sure you guys want to just bust on Doug McClain over, you know, Nyes and how good he's been.

You know, you've got to give it to him, Sammy. I don't want to say that. I don't say it. You win it before the Ottawa game. I volunteer as tribute. I texted him this morning. I said, Doug, you all good? And he said, great.

The Matthew and I show. He knows what's coming. He knows it. You're not going to want to miss that. Doug McClain after the break. when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, with no hesitation, let's go to our first guest of the day, Doug McClain, former NHL president, GM, head coach,

and author of the best-selling draft day, How Teams Pick Winners or Get Left Behind. Let's welcome in Doug McClain. Is it true you are now negotiating with netflix for the rights well i've been approached and um you know i probably will turn it over to my agent here shortly and um i i kevin costner wanted to play me but i i'm gonna i'm to fight for somebody a little better looking. God, you know what? You know what?

I'd like to have a Matthew Nyes type of look. You know what? A guy that looks as good as he does. Why would you say that? What's Matthew Nyes to you? No, no. I'm just because I got a message this week that because I gave Matthew Nye's a little poke last week that you guys were waiting anxiously to give me some shots until you watched the Ottawa game

and then you rebounded. He was really good against Tampa Bay on the comeback. Yeah, he really was. Well, obviously he heard that I gave him a couple of little pokes to get him going, you know. But look, the young guy's not their problem. Let's not kid ourselves. Matthew Nyes is not their problem.

But it's a pretty sad commentary when you've got to move to a kid and get him into the top of your lineup to try and spark your team. They got other problems besides their

forward group. Mac, we had a chat before you joined us about the problems because they're real and their defensive play is just abhorrent. Would you be inclined to do the dramatic thing we discussed and actually trading one of Nylander or Marner and trying to do something big? Or is this fixable with just better play and a couple of small tweaks? Well, to me, it's not so much better play.

I'm looking at their blue line and I'm saying, okay, they've got two defensemen right now that are playing close to their potential. Morgan Riley has been pretty good and Brody is hanging on and battling and trying hard after that you can't like that blue line

number one they're not good enough as a group other than those two they're not good enough to play they tried to fix it at the red line last year with Gustafson which was a disaster they brought in McCabe who's not good enough. And that's where they are, that blue line.

And we talked about it at the start of the season. They're not good enough. And I hate to say it, but the guy that may have to move is Nylander. And nobody wants to do that because he's been so good. So they're caught here a little bit. Mac, when it comes to John Klingberg, take us into a Leaf boardroom right now where you're here a little bit. Mac, when it comes to John Klingberg, take us into a leaf boardroom right now where you're watching a guy struggle.

There's no question that Brad Treliving made a huge commitment to him for, even though it's only one year, 4.1. What kind of conversations would they have? Where's the wiggle room to get this guy playing better? Or are there some saying, this is who he is and we need to regroup? You know what? I thought he was going to be a star a couple of years ago.

And then when you talk to some people, his game has dramatically dropped off from where he was a couple of years ago. People were talking about this guy going to be a $6, $7, $8 million player. Do you remember those conversations? Turned down a lot of money, Mac, in Dallas. Right. And now, I mean, the guy started... Look, I think what you've got to do with Klingberg,

you're stuck with him. You've got to protect him to get him going. You've got to get him playing with a top guy to try to get them going. That's the only thing you can do. So does that mean putting them with Morgan Riley on a regular basis for a period of time or whatever else to get them going and protect them as much as you can? But it's not just Klingbergberg the defense isn't good enough and they refuse to play defensive hockey you know what i watched vancouver play last night this is a team that refused to play defensive hockey last year as well and all of a sudden they're they're they're

they're catching on you know they're catching on plus they got a couple of real superstars which is what the leafs have but it's not pretty right now guys and it is it really keith i hear everybody blaming keith come on they're not good enough right now boys simple as that you know we tell you talking though like they can't do anything trade wise or you know any you don't think anything big in the trade front makes a whole lot of sense. They need to play better defensively, but it's not Keefe's fault. Like trying to, you know, get this thing turned around for the Leafs seems like a really tough position that they're in. You know, I think some of the new guys, you know, they haven't been very good in the D zone.

And I wonder if there is some getting acclimated, if this is a thing that time could work itself out. And if maybe this is all just some hasty judgment. Okay. But just a minute, tell me like Ryan Reeves. Well, we know he's not any good defensively.

We know he's a tough guy. We know he's a fighter. We know that's what he is. Like I watched Domi play in Columbus a couple of years ago. He couldn't play. Then he goes to Dallas and he was pretty good, but he's never been a great defensive player. Why would you expect him to?

I mean, you look for him to create a little offense and to provide a little grit, but he's certainly never been known as a great defensive player. Bertuzzi is certainly not known as a great defensive player. I've watched him now for four years try to fix the bottom two lines of this team, and they have fallen flat on their face continually to fix the bottom two lines that they can play five-on-five hockey, and they failed to fix their blue line. I know it's not easy. I'm not blaming anybody here, but it's not easy to fix it. But they refuse to play the type of game you have to play to be successful in the playoffs.

Ottawa are the very same. They don't want to play that game right now. Vancouver do. I mean, who in Canada wants to play it? I'm watching the Canadian teams on a regular basis. None of them want to play defense or none of them can play defense except Vancouver. And that's because Demko has been a superstar.

Mac, I just want to ask you about Ryan Reeves a little bit here. And the first two couple of games, we saw him involved a couple of fights here. And since then, like really a non-factor here. And yes, there's the minus nine out there for sure that it might be a concern. But is this just not Ryan Reeves reading the tea leaves

on still when to go to what he was brought in to do? Is this Sheldon Keefe not making it abundantly clear to him? Or is this just his unwillingness to go out there and try to move the needle with some energy here? What would you do? Is there still room for Ryan Reeves in this lineup moving forward? Look, the problem you run into is every time they go on the ice, they have a goal scored on.

I mean, that's frightening. When you put them out there and they give on the ice, they have a goal scored on. I mean, that's frightening. When you put them out there and they give up a goal, when we know how tight games are. So, number one, I mean, I'd like to see him get a shift every once in a while. But if you can't trust a tough guy, like I had Jody Shelley. He was a tough kid. He wasn't a heavyweight champion of the world, but I could trust him defensively. I could trust when he went on the ice that his number one priority was, I'm going to punch somebody's lights out, but I'm also going to play the defensive zone. I'm going to do the little things that allow me to get him 8 to 10, 11 minutes

of ice time. And if they refuse to do that, just being a fighter is no good. Because there's, I mean, Nick, you know how much fighting there is today. Who's going to fight Reeves? Brad Marchand?

Yeah, no. Seeking out a dance partner is definitely part of the challenge. So 6-5 and 2. Yeah. And so they've got two games here. You know, they've got Calgary and Ottawa the next two days. And then they go to Sweden. They don't play for a week.

They go play in the middle of the season, 15 games in over there. How do you feel about that for a team? How should they feel about it? They'll love playing in Sweden. They play like the Swedish teams do. They will love it over there. The big rink, you can't hit anybody. It'll be perfect for them.

No, you know what? Ottawa and Calgary are two good teams to play. I mean, you've got the rivalry with Ottawa, which should get them. I mean, that could got the rivalry with Ottawa, which should get them. I mean, that could be a big win for them if they could beat Ottawa. And Calgary, they should beat. Although Calgary would have won three in a row all of a sudden. You know what?

This is a good schedule. And to get away to Sweden in all seriousness is probably a positive for them. Get them away from you tough media types. You guys have become so tough. It's unbelievable listening to you. However tough it is here, I think the temperature might be a little higher in Edmonton.

Just what is Ken Holland do, Mac, in Edmonton, coming off a horrific loss to San Jose? Well, you know, I think Ken, and I suspect this has been done, but a serious meeting with Dreisaitl, McDavid, Nurse, Boucher. I mean, they're top guys. Nugent Hopkins, Kane.

I mean, this is your leadership group, Hyman. This is your leadership group there. I. This is your leadership group there. I mean, have some pride and have some character and get that group to buy into what's going on or to overcome what's going on. In fairness, old guys, in fairness, how do you expect to win when you've got goal timing like that well and that's really tough everyone's waiting for them to fire the coach shouldn't they trade a goalie or bring in a goalie

before they do anything that drastic i've watched quite a few of their games and you're out shooting a team two to one you're out chancing them listen youcing them. Listen, you're one of the worst offensive teams in the league. How does that happen with this talented group of people? Is it because you're so uptight about your back end and your goaltending that you're not taking gambles? But they've got to fire it up here. I'm going to say it right now i believe they'll make the playoffs i really believe that it may take a miracle but i think that i i really believe that that group i just called out have got to make the playoffs somehow

some way and you cannot blame the coach for this. They may have to fire him, but he does not deserve the punishment that he's taken right now with the way they play. We're talking to Doug McClain. You can't win with goaltending like that. Simple as that. World number one author right now.

World number one. According to Globe and Mail and Toronto Star, I think. I read the book today for the fifth time. It's really good. No color pictures, eh, Mac? Like my book. No, there's no pictures. I don't know why they didn't go with some pictures.

I'm a little disappointed. Are you on the beach having a cigar? I thought it would have been perfect. You'll see it. I know you never worked for And you on the beach having a cigar, I thought would have been perfect. In the movie, you'll see it. You'll see it in the movie. I know you never worked for an NHL club in Canada here, but can you just talk a little bit about outside pressures to make a change? And I know Columbus was in a market like Edmonton or Toronto,

but you still felt that outside pressure, I'm sure. And I think that's what's going on right now in Edmonton. There's people calling for Jay Woodcroft. There's some people here in Toronto that want Sheldon out here. How do you as a president or a general manager kind of just shut that noise out? Is it easier said than done it's easier said than done but you've got to discuss it you've got to as a as a gm you've got to go into your room and you've got to discuss it with the team and the gm meets with the team i might do it i might

have done it twice a year where i go down and meet with the team unless it was a new coach or something where they're you know or firing or something but typically it might be twice a year and and it and lots of times it was about that trying to get the team to relax trying to get the team to just deal with what you can deal with and let's start let's start with a thing as simple as when the puck's on your stick making a safe play first safety first make the play second just and try to get some rallying points behind your group that they can go and get some small gains in the game. And you know what? You've got to address it because the noise is over the top in most Canadian markets right now, guys.

We're talking Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Edmonton. Where is it good other than Vancouver? Yeah, nowhere. You know, two things to say one is that you seem to have some like revolving rainbow light in your house that's really fantastic if i've enjoyed i've enjoyed the changing background lights yeah i don't know what it is but i've enjoyed that the other thing is who are no don't do that who are the greatest successes in the nhl um forwards who became defensively responsible. Guys who came into the league who couldn't defend,

who were one-way guys, that their teams convinced them it's possible to play D. Sergei Fedorov was one for me that I thought of. Was he always good? Sergei Fedorov was like that from the first practice. Okay, Medano, Iserman. Brian Murray and I sitting in training camp in Flint, Michigan, and Brian saying to me,

Doug, look at Federoff, the way he reads that breakout, the way he positions himself defensively first to come back. Would a guy like Kopitar be that guy? You know, is coming in as a young guy that was going to be more of an offensive type guy. I remember watching him at the World Championships as an 18-year-old and he was well-rounded. So I don't know.

But there's Iserman, yeah. I guess I'm wondering if it's possible. He did become better. There's no doubt about that. I'm trying to think of other guys that were stars that really became that way. You know, the top guys typically become that. You know, they really do. Look at Nick Backstrom in Washington.

Became that really number one centerman, but also dependable in his own zone. Not to get deep on this conversation, but Mac, the kids today, are they still being taught how to check in between skills class? Well, there's so many skills coaches that they can't figure out who they're supposed to listen to. You know, I mean, I go from the skills coach, then I go to the analytics coach and then I go, oh, my God.

I got to eat. Where's my nutrition coach? I remember them telling me about the Michigan State football coach. He had so many assistants. He didn't even know his assistant's name, let alone his player's name. That's what's happening in the NHL today. Like, there's throngs of them everywhere, you know? Well, we got Hall of Fame weekend here, Mac. I'm sure there's a Hall of Fame for books. You're close to being inducted soon.

Well, you know what? Hitchcock, my former coach, is going into the hall of fame and i'm going to be i'll be going into the writers category writers category what jeff rimmer's trying to get into with that manuscript he wrote about his last year in the league that's all play to get in you know all right listen get back to your book all right thanks for taking a break from reading your book draft day to be on our show thanks guys of course jeff rimmer catches one stray per show oh yeah he's like he just feels like once a week like a pin going in i'm just like what's going on where's that from uh doug's on the real kipper and born show i love that yeah uh do you think kids are like i don't know if it reminds me of the are less um uh conscientious of just how to check.

Kipper, I went to a junior hockey game two weekends ago. Guys barely looked at each other. Like hockey, junior hockey, when I was a kid, the games were four hours long because there were fights and hits and everything. It's like junior hockey now, it's just there's no hitters. Like there's a little contact here and there, but it's just not the same game it was. Yeah much more focus on skill yeah for sure and there's never any

confrontation when you're doing a skills drill but you know what that puts value on the guys who have those elements you see teams clamoring for someone with some general animosity something you know like tom wil Wilson started punching people in. And he's so rich. If I started my career today, man, I'd be making millions. All I had to do was just go chase somebody. The problem was in your era, everyone fought someone. Even Liam O'Brien.

You can just throw your mitts off and skate after people to fight. Kipper, you're not making millions here? Sammy, I can't get you a phone. No, it's good. We got it all figured out. Okay, you're good now. Yeah. Alright. Still plenty more here on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show as we

take a break. We're going to welcome in Mike Gardner, Hall of Famer. Big Hall of Fame weekend and Gartz will be here to tell us all about it. What else are we going to get into in the back half? You still want to get into Oilers, right? We got to go deeper into the Edmonton Oilers.

And we have a Jack Campbell. What a loss last night. You had them at two touchdowns last night. 14-0. You're a little off. We're going to discuss that in the next hour as we go national on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show.

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