Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Cruising Without the Captain

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back over a pair of Leafs' wins over the weekend over Detroit and Montreal and discuss the team's heightened level of play without Auston Matthews in the lineup and what Berube can take away from that trend. Should the Leafs move Matthews down to the second power-play unit when he returns? Then, they get into Conor Timmins making the most of his ice time, the sorry state of the Habs, Max Pacioretty moving to IR, and who steps up into the top-6 in his absence. Finally, sports doctor Jason Smith (38:04) shares his POV of Pacioretty's injury, Calle Järnkrok's 'setback' and their long-term outlooks. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's get her going here the real kipper and born show i'm nick kiprios he's justin born he's sammy mckee derrick brandeo and jen Rolnick in today for the next two hours. Yes. Terrific show for you coming up. We've got Kevin Shevelday off, general manager in the hottest team in hockey. The Jets doing okay? I think they're doing okay. Okay.

We'll have him at the top of the hour on our national show. In the meantime, we are live on sports at 590 the fan sports net and sports at plus toronto maple leaf sweep the weekend of back-to-back friday night detroit no problem saturday night montreal no problem no problem and everything's hunky-dory again jb it is before we get going you mentioned jen rollnick's in there she did a really good job uh i brought my brother through here yes and it's his birthday as well right jeff a big happy birthday to jeff bourne my brother uh his his wife sarah bourne was in here as well and their friend julia jen put up the uh you know what do you call it a chiron

or a font or whatever it's a jeff birthday boy and he was there's words on the screen is what i mean a bumper a bumper i don't know and he was very excited i could be in this business for 50 years and i don't know what the heck you're talking about a name key i think it's chiron not right no i don't think so jed somebody name key is what i'm getting anyway she threw up a name key for him. It's pretty cool. So happy birthday to my brother. Great to have him in Toronto. Oh, Chiron is the machine that makes the keys.

Don't listen to me. Holy. Red hot start. Now, is he a Leaf fan? Isles, right? Isles? He's all in on the Isles. Or Vancouver.

He needs a Canadian favorite team. He'd be a Canucks guy. More Canucks than the Leafs. Yeah. So what would he have thought about the Leafs winning on the weekend? You know, he's a courtesy supporter, but I think anyone watching the Leafs at this point has to be a little bit encouraged, right?

I mean, this is a team that last year against Atlantic Division teams were below.500. How do you expect to win your division if you're below 500 in your own division? This year, they're off to a 4-1-1 start in their division. These are not the best teams they beat. You've got to beat these teams. They hadn't been doing that under Sheldon Keefe in previous years.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it was pretty shocking how bad the Red Wings and Habs are, especially the Red Wings. The Red Wings you lump in with Montreal. They're not in the same class, but I think they're definitely way below expectations in terms of where you thought they'd be at this point.

But that's been a huge complaint of all of ours is how many points they've wasted against teams worse than them. And you went into, you know, against Boston, who has a team that's worse than them right now, beat them, and then you take four points from Montreal and the Red Wings over Hall of Fame weekend. It's looking pretty good.

What also helps is when you get real steady goaltending. Oh, yeah. And there's a few different directions we can go to start off our Leaf Hour edition. But eventually we'll get to Austin Matthews and that incredible non-Austin Matthews run that they've been on. But where do you want to go first

in terms of just wrapping up the weekend? I think it's Austin Matthews. You know who you want to talk about? Right out of the get-go? Sure. And then let's do the power play. Because that's related to Matthews. So you want to talk about right right right out of the get-go sure and then let's do the power play but because that's related to matthews so you want to read you want to just rip rip off a couple of stats uh where the leafs are sure with austin matthews in the lineup and where

they are without him well without him well that's i think a relevant note here go ahead without him the toronto maple leafs have won seven straight games and are 40 19 and 2 uh the maple leaves are 11 for 26 in the on the power play in their last five games without austin matthews and is operating a 30.9 clip on the power play without matthews since 2016 that don't make no sense yeah i well you know i we're sitting here doing this like it's uh you know it is crazy that they've done so well but i will say so like 40 and 40 19 their record their winning percentage over that time is not too different than that yeah you know like that's it's it's above their winning percentage by not by a ton they kind of beat up some tomato cans here for sure this past

little stretch yeah and then yeah i do think that there's an element of you know pick the team up he's not in we got to do this and then the power play to me is the only place it's super relevant where it's like that tangibly changes how people think and feel and how it looks and i think there's something important to pull out of that that to me is worth finding yeah and just on that note mitch marner it's completely changes mitch marner as well on the power play or generally start on the power play yeah right where we've seen him lost in a bumper position now all of a sudden he's found himself most often than not walking the the blue line does no way to gauge where he's going to go with the puck disguises it as well as anybody and like he's he's also on the power play but in general a different player with austin his numbers are actually better is that not justification to you to say can we have these guys do this without each other and push them

on separate lines i think there's something to be said that for sure uh his his points are up like it's just he's yeah he can carry his he can carry himself yeah without austin yeah and yeah for sure he's been super good. I think the power play is an interesting, you know, discussion of what about if they go back to how they were when they were almost rookies when Marner ran it from the right side on the power play and Austin caught and released on his offhand. Is there something there? Like Marner overall is a tremendous player.

His guy has gotten, you know, votes for all sorts of awards, and we know what he can do. No one has ever said Marner can't do it against Detroit in game 15. No one's ever said that. You know, that's not – I'm not shocked he's killing it. But the whole team's killing it without him. So what, they're different. They tighten up.

They want to get him the puck more. Subconsciously, the focus is about him when he's on the ice, shooting the puck. I mean, they've played three games without him. And I think, you know, we'd be fools to make too big a deal of it. They've beat a team in Boston that's probably going to fire their coach and then two non-playoff teams. No, this is over his career.

The record with... If you broke it down, the only one that it matches up is... They're a worse team with Mitch out of the lineup. And statistically, they're a better team with Austin out. And Riley. And Riley. They're really good. And Nylander. So they're better with all of them. They should play with none of. And Riley. And Riley. They're really good.

And Nylander. So they're better with all of them and they should play with none of them. Weird. Imagine how good they'd be. Listen, it's just odd. It'd be 2015. It's just odd.

You know, it is, Kip. But we're talking about a 60 game over the career and three quarters of these games were in Austin's first two years. You know, we're hyping up this record. These are games from 2016-17 when it's Kad bozak i'm not i'm not trading him or sending him down to the marlies i know but like i've heard this conversation several different good thing patches got it hurt so they can get them back in the lineup right it's healthy i've heard several interviews

with this matthews thing people being like boy yeah they're pretty good with him out, just like we did with Riley out last year. 38-19 is significant. 38-19-2 is really... 40. Is it? 40-19-2. Yeah, because they won the last two games. But like I said, a lot of this is when they're younger or when he's in his earlier days.

And I guess my question is, what's your point? Yeah. Odd. That it's really odd. Do you have any theories? The only one I can come up with is that they they over uh they overemphasize getting in the puck so then how do they correct that with him in the lineup and maintain maybe it's austin that needs the correcting okay go ahead i don't

know just like they are and you've i've been on this for a long time. They're not a good, they don't pass the puck as well as I think they should. And they've moved it pretty good in the last little while. It's just small. But, again, the other thing is, you know, I look at, I know they're shooters. I get that they're shooters. But as a number one center, I want Austin to pass the puck more. I want Austin should be passing it to Marner for tap-ins in the empty net,

not David Kampf. So I don't know. If Austin could consciously make it a point to be more of a setup man than at times shooting from bad angles. You're talking about asking Brett Hall or whatever to pass to Adam Oates. Like, does anyone think that's a better

conclusion? I think that this, to me, the way that Marner has looked over the games without Matthews here, and the way Matthews looked without Marner last year very clear to me that yeah they're both can be separated like matthews played the best conclusion here yes you know you know how many stanley cups adam oats uh and brett hull one

doing it their way right yeah no that's a fair point if you don't think you can win like that there's definitely i listen i'm on board with some sort of stylistic adjustment and not looking for a shot all the time. Absolutely. I think we're getting a little bit hyped up here over a small sample number. Mitch Martyrs points per game, the last four year or points for 60, 3.9,

3.5, 3.5, 3.5. We're kind of where we've been. He's the player we know he is. He's a, you know, elite guy,

you know, Matthew's obviously elite player, 106 points last year whatever the exact number was you know some people want him to pass it more i'm fine with him shooting in the net almost 70 times take your pick okay let's go to craig broovy for our first kippers clipper this week on his power play without austin matthews like we talked about, it's simplified. They're attacking more downhill and getting pucks to the net area and getting rewarded for it right now, which is good to see. Yeah, they've done a good job. And you like what you've seen from the power play?

Yeah. I think they've gotten a couple of breaks too a couple of bounces a couple of seeing eye pucks that uh found their way to the net it's it tends to balance out a little bit i think once you get austin back as early as we think this week doubtful for tomorrow doubtful for tomorrow he doesn't play the next couple because it's back-to-back. Eventually, you're going to have to find that same type of vibe with him in it. You know, the one thing I'm totally fine with, and if you're looking towards the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs to say,

hey, you've been out. The power play is humming. Until it's not humming, you're going to run the second power play. I'm fine with that. I mean, it's not killer for two games to say, this is going really good. We're not going to disrupt it.

We're trying to score goals in the power play. You assume Matthews, who has signed a long-term deal in the captain team, is in it for the good of the team. What world are you living in that if this power play continues to stay pretty good for, I don't know, the next two, three weeks, Austin's going to take the last 15 seconds if this power play continues to stay pretty good for i don't know the next two three weeks austin's going to take the last 15 seconds of a power play but see have you ever heard him say i won't do that or like their team trying to win games he's the captain he has a

long-term deal yeah you don't think he'll say okay yeah no get in when i can he can say okay publicly but behind the scenes he's i guess it depends where you get your information from, like who you're hearing. Yeah. I guess it depends where you get your information from. I am not getting information. I know these guys. I know it. I've lived it.

I've seen it. You can talk about different eras. You can talk about the games changed. That part will never change. And I don't think he has to love it. I just think you have to say you are the captain of this team. The goal for this team is to win. Here's what we're doing.

Like, would Berube not have the power to tell him? The answer is you find it with him because that's what you committed $13.25 million to. He's going to be on it. No one's saying he's not going to be. You know, it's round one, game three. They don't have the patience to wait it out. They don't. They don't.

They don't have an option to wait it out. They don't. They don't. They don't have an option. He has the option. He goes to them and says, you know, you want to see me drag my lip around here? I'm not. He's the star player. He's a 70-goal scorer. Your job as a coaching staff is to find the right solution that includes him,

not temporarily leaves him on the sidelines. It's just not reality. Now, you want to try a period, get half a game to your theory, but you're talking about something that may go a week, 10 days. Nah, I don't see it. Yeah, it's so funny because like you know we talk about how the teams that have won in the recent past are teams of the capital t you know we remember we watching the videos at tampa bay was it st louis that hit the guy or something and all tampa bay

every guy in the ice had their gloves off chasing them around in florida you know what a team capital t team you know no one above the logo all that stuff but the leafs are somehow to you get a different set of that's apples to oranges defending a teammate on the ice in that capacity and leaving kucherov on the bench or pasternak for a whole period that stuff's going to come back and haunt montgomery yeah you know it just doesn't get blown off as being a good team guy it just doesn't work that way when it comes to these stars so anyways well listen I'm not they should get a hard-ass coach in someone who's able to tell them you're sitting on the bench like someone with a real

history not such a players coach that they got now Berube's that guy he's that guy as much as anybody will ever find. And he won't do that. He won't leave Austin on the second unit while this one stays hot. Obviously, it's not a long-term solution. So, if you're looking at it right now, then the way it's kind of gotten rolling here, and it's looked good, I think there's something to the fact that it's just off the schneid now, and you slide Matthews back in there, and it's just going to be a top 10 unit

for the rest of the year. Like, I just, I really do feel like there's a big yips element to it. And they finally started, I mean, look at how many of these plays are just broken plays, and pucks landed on sticks in the sweet spot. Fake shot backdoor.

Willie Nylander, that was not a power play goal. That's him skating through a bunch of fire pokers and shooting it in the net spinning circles i think it's just sort of started to turn here and i think there's a really great chance that just austin baddies comes back probably let's say saturday night against the edmonton oilers on hockey night in canada first penalty you know he's probably going over the board zach hyman uh two minutes for hooking yeah 34th probably hopping over bar Barney. No, I think you're right. So I think people misconstrue me saying,

here's what I think will happen versus here's what I think should happen. Because I think he'll be there. It's just, I think that there's just like a, they've been better. Their numbers look great. But I really do think there's been a lot of element of just regulating and luck to them getting so hot on the power play. Like they scored on the power play before he got hurt, he got passed to Nylander. It is funny, though, that it's just they couldn't score on the power play

and then they couldn't score five on five. They only scored power play goals for two games in a row. It's just a funny sport. Okay, where do you guys want to go? You want to go Timmons, defense, penalty kill, Tavares. What do you like? Matthews. Dealer's choice.

Let's talk about the blue line a little bit because as much as maybe Montreal had time in the Ozone on Saturday night, I don't think they really got a decent sniff. No. To get themselves back in the game. And Connor Timmons again standing pretty strong. decent sniff no to get themselves back in the game and uh you know connor timmons again uh standing pretty strong won't give up that spot boys yeah it's his right now to lose so let's let's go to craig bruby on on connor timmons well he's been highly competitive for one thing

uh with his defensive play um that's key but makes plays with the puck. He sees the ice really well. I think on breakouts he hits the middle of the ice quite a bit. And then, you know, tonight he used his shot and scored. But he's got a good shot. But just overall I think it's, you know, his competitiveness is what's, you know, really stands out to me for you know and for me like defending and winning battles and breaking pucks out under pressure things like that so that's the thing that stands out for me he really likes a lot of stuff that i don't think connor timmons was known for

prior to craig bruby hey well timmons came in and he was in a bit of a clump with about three or four other guys including um myers including hock and pa lilligran lilligran lilligran's out benning's in benning's wavers he'll go down to the marlies as the eighth defenseman hock and pause the seventh defenseman and connor's timmons is locked in right now at six do you think when hock and paw comes back what do you do because hock and pause a right shot guy timmons has been tough to take out yeah his ice time has gone up he's uh almost 18 minutes last game. Like, they clearly see something. Yeah, there might be a game or a loss where it's a little easier to go up to him and say, you know, you're a healthy scratch tonight. Yeah.

And you got to get Hockenpah in. You got to see what he looks like, what the knee feels like after a game. You didn't come this far to just leave Hckinpah out there to sit there and not get a test so i i probably think timmons is the likely guy to come out a right shot for a right shot but you might to your point earlier minus the power play example just wait we might have to wait till it cools off a little bit yeah it's uh the one thing with tim is that scary it has always been scary as games played right his ability to stay healthy if you look back like man he never plays a full season last year 25 games year before that 25 games 2021 31 games year before that 40 games year before that 36 games this guy

hasn't played a 41st hockey game yeah since 2017 and the reason why dallas just didn't make a longer term commitment to him yeah sorry i'm talking with timmons that's timmons i'm sorry i thought you're saying hockin no timmons hasn't played any significant time either so yeah hopefully he's able to kind of trade in and out he is playing different timmons like ruby's got him playing different i i think he's making better judgments on when to go when not to go when to be aggressive when not like he's he's found a way to limit his his mistakes yeah and maybe that's gonna limit his uh ability to stay you know healthy it's funny when you look at the type of player he is it's like he's six foot three and he works really hard he skates really well he has good offensive instincts like there's tons to like, maybe with some consistent play.

This is a guy who's, he's in there in playoffs. I don't know. I have to say, you look at the least decor in general. And I think that having the top four of what they have here with Riley, all recommend Larson, Tanev,

McCabe, we'll have whatever order you want to put it in. This is kind of what it's supposed to be like when you have an NHL team where you have the four solid guys where you just worry about the bottom half of your decor, where it's like, oh, yeah, Timmons can mix in, or Benoit, or Hockenbach, whoever you just kind of worry about the top four guys who are going to play the most amount of ice.

And they've done an unbelievable job. Like, they really, I mean, it's got two goals in the last three games against. The high danger chances, all this stuff against them. Like, they're really doing a great job defensively. And when it does break down, you're getting saves that you haven't seen really. I mean, ever? Long time.

I've never seen a goalie make a barehanded save. Long time. You were there on Friday night. How was it? It was good. It was fun to watch live hockey again. Any different impressions on the... Yeah, a few things.

I thought Marner is unbelievable. Yeah. I will say every time I'm there in person, that's a takeaway. Yeah, Marner is unbelievable live. Willie's unbelievable live. I thought McMahon just... He was really praising the third line after Friday night. That's a good long shift in their own zone.

Great play on the callback goal, right? McMahon drove wide. I see McMahon's size live. I'm like, God, just hammer somebody. Like, run into somebody. Use the size, man. Like, he's so big and so fast. And he just pulls up so often. so that was my three big takeaways and that uh crowd in the lower bowl pretty brutal

pretty brutal i don't want to do it but like i was with some degenerates they're trying to get goalies go chance going and everybody's just staring at their phone it's friday night man let's go here you're still doing business still trying to cut deals to pay for those suckers people are looking up with us like we're got holes in our heads because we're a goalie's go it's like good lord what's going on here anyway this is my big takeaways and all the people that came up to me to say they love the show oh that's nice i was like brad pitt down there i almost had 15 people come up to me. It was unbelievable. It was unbelievable.

But the defense is like a notable thing, right? Like it just, talking to Bunk earlier today, he was saying like watching Chris Tanev is like when you're out of a bad relationship and then you get in a good one, you're like, wait, it's supposed to be like this? This is so easy. He just

blocks shots. he breaks the puck out it feels safe with him out there he's he's been tremendous and the team as a result is as tight as they've been defensively in in some time yeah like they've allowed the second least five on five goals against this season with 21 behind the the dallas stars who've got uh 19 so they're second in the league and goals against five on five this year uh anything worth noting on barubi or tree living on austin matthews he's got a strong defense clip if you want to hear him on on that to put a bow on what we just talked about clip five let's do it we're really doing a good job in the in the slot area and um we're heavy down low in our in our zone you know our are doing a great job of killing plays.

And our forwards are protecting the middle of the ice really well. And that's key. And, you know, that's what you got to do. That's what you got to do. That's about it. So, yeah, it's like low event hockey. That Detroit game was not a thrill ride. No, it's like low-event hockey. That Detroit game was not a thrill ride. No, it was not.

And I'm sorry, but Montreal was... I can appreciate the Leafs gaining confidence and the power play and all of that, but how do you really know for sure when that team was awful? To me, it was as soft as I've seen a team in 10 years and it's that's crazy and it's like there's some hubris involved that they're not changing anything they're just doing what they think they had a big win today they went seven five with the sabers oh man which i like both teams deserve to lose i know two l's we're gonna award your points we're

gonna distribute the two points amongst the league i'm i'm scared for hab fans like it doesn't feel like they're better next year what's not next year not this year they could finish in the bottom and next year they could finish bottom five again next year what's the route here yeah what's the path the bed i don't know i don't know but like uh you got to start wondering too not that this is the habs hour on our show but like is that the right core to lead are they front line guys no it's not is suzuki a number one centerman eventually on a cup contending team? He's definitely a great number two centerman. Okay.

You know, like he's a number one centerman in the NHL, but on the 16 teams trying to win a cup, probably not. Cole Caulfield scored two more power play goals today. Yeah, he might get 50 this year. He might. But like five on five, I don't notice him five on five. No.

I notice him when he's waiting off the post on the power play and he gets to one time one in. Like that's noticeable. But Saturday night, he was nowhere to be found. They've got a lot of money and a lot of these kids.

And I'm not seeing where where the promised land is right now with this with the with this group can i ask you your thoughts on the domi savard thing when it's i think it was at the end of the second period right where domi and savard have been tied up early in the game he cross-checked domi and then they get into the little scrum there and domomi gets his gloves off and Savard kind of looks at him funny like should eligible to be fought there I like David Savard and you know I'm watching him and his team and I'm going like there's a 34 35 year old defenseman with i don't know eight 900 games under his belt have to be the guy to go get max and i'm looking at all these young kids

with big contracts mailing it in all night and i'm gonna go fight max domi isn't he the hard-nosed d like i saw him in that moment i'm like they're down three it's hockey night in canada it's you know embarrassed getting embarrassed one of the other guys wants to that to me seemed like crying listen i'm not saying that you're wrong on the surface but i've also seen scenarios where it's like if you don't give a crap and you don't give a crap and you don't give a crap why should i go give a crap i put my nose on the line to watch i'm i'm i'm gonna i'm 34 i can still be in demand i'm out of here by march i'll go to a contending team what do i have to go and fight max domey on a night that i know we ain't winning and i know you guys are no shows onows. That's the way it works. Once a team hits that point, isn't that death?

You know, once you're looking around the other team, guys going, if he's not, I'm not. And then you're all dead. I saw it Saturday night. I'd be really worried right now. I saw it Saturday night. Like, you are a young team. A lot of you guys have already been paid already.

Slavkoski's 20 next year, and he's making eight large. And you go into Toronto on a Saturday night, coast-to-coast hockey night in Canada, and that's what you bring? You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Let me ask. Let me do some role-playing here. I'll be Kent Hughes, and you guys be Brad for a living.

Hey, Brad, I have this guy, Slavkoski, first overall pick. He's had a little bit of a slow start to his career, but he scored 20 goals, lots of promise. Would you give us Matthew Nyes for him? What is the response? Yeah, I'm doing it. You're doing it? I mean, his pedigree. His first overall pick.

It just happened. He's a huge guy. No chance. I laugh him off the phone. Hang up. I'm not giving up Nyes for Slavikoski. Agree. I agree.

I'm sorry. But it's just never going to happen. It's just like, but you think you've got your answer for that. And I hope Slavkoski turns out to be this power forward that can, you know, look like, you know, Kevin Stevens in his heyday in Pittsburgh or, you know, power John LeClair type. But I'm not sure how much true finish he has to be a top, top score,

but a good power grinder. The example I used to you guys in our group chat about it was when Anaheim was doing their big rebuild, and it was like they had Max Jones and Sam Steele and Ricard Raquel, and who was the Z one, wasn't there? Zegers? No, anyway, there's another way. Anyway, they, it Raquel. Who was the Z one? Wasn't there a... Zegers? No, anyway, there's another way. Anyway, they...

Owen Zellweger? Is that a guy? I don't know. But it's like you always think when you have young players, it's like the core is coming. The core is coming. Sometimes the core is not good enough. Yeah.

You know, Buffalo had how many versions of their core that didn't pan out? And it's like, there's a lot of red flags there. Anyway, too much Montreal talk. Listen listen not to get ahead of ourselves but otto is coming in tomorrow night like they're not much far off in terms of the the mindset that they should have in coming to play a top team like toronto right now yeah where it's like boys you got the where it's like, boys, you got the stage. It's a big stage. You want to get, you want to stay on the path of credibility, go in there and fight fire with fire with your hockey club,

you know, your young guns. They're all signed up. They've got their money right now. So what's left? Go out there and show it. I'm hoping that ottawa can come in tomorrow night and at least try to match and push the toronto maple leafs back that montreal just refused to even try ottawa actually reminds me of previous versions of toronto where it's like

there's brady kachuk and and then they don't have much bite there amongst these young guys that are their next wave of guys, whether it's Sanderson or Shabbat on the back end, or Drew or Stutzler or Bathurston or Norris. So, big story from the game on Saturday, and we'll get into it a little bit with our doctor correspondent after the break. Yeah.

Max Pacioretty goes down with an unidentified hammy leg something injury. Which was really a strange one because he got cross-checked from behind and reached for the back of his leg. Someone caught their toe with a skate underneath him on a previous play. Not right where it happened. I don't think it happened at the moment he he was done so uh brube clip seven on losing pat tretti and listen to the tone of his voice when he talks about this well it's bad enough that's for sure i mean that's uh that's a loss i mean this guy was playing good hockey for us. Really, that power forward hockey with his physicality

and his ability to hang on to pucks in the offensive zone, score some goals and things like that. It's unfortunate for him and us. I feel for him with the injuries over the years he's had the last few years. But he'll grind through it. He's a worker and a very good pro, and he'll get back. Who did he hammer Saturday night in the wall? I think it was Gooley, maybe?

Yeah. And Gooley just, like, what was that freight train that hit me? It was like UFC fighters who hit and it doesn't look hard and everyone just goes, oh. When I see a guy like Pacioretty go and get a freebie on a Montreal Canadian like that and, again, see no response out of anybody to say anything or hit anybody else, I'm like, that's a good night for Toronto. And it's patch ready,

continually pounding on guys and having his way physically. I'm like, like this guy's valuable. Now he went from someone that we went and rolled our eyes on and saying, is he going to be around after 10 games to opening up holes? You're in on that. You actually think he's been meaningful to them? Oh, buddy.

He's got six straight games, no points. I did that for a living. I can identify when a guy goes in there and hits hard, and this guy hit like a Mack truck. Yeah. He just didn't. It's not these bummy checks or you know just you know did anyone see me i did i get credited with a hit there no this was like i'm going in

to hurt you right and like it's funny he's the most willing to do that not mcmahon not holmberg he brought value i don't know i don't know at his age how long it was gonna last or you know could he go through the whole season like it this is we got an answer did this exactly 12 games did this somehow tie into just overextending himself yes and listen we we got our doctor doctor doctor segment coming up after the break and you know that's one of the first kind of questions I'm going to ask him is like, when you're physically putting your body through a different kind of toll, can something like that trigger something that maybe breaks down indirectly? So then the big question is, he's playing in the top six.

He's playing on one of the two top lines who because you would assume unless they want to split up marner and matthews or whatever but they're going to keep willie and devaris together who goes into that spot with those two guys now is it a rotating cast is it just see who gets going mcmahon some chance at some point to be the guy you thought he could be yeah yeah someone he needs a chance to just say hey here's three games i think you can start with mcmahon and if not then you go to holmberg you go to robertson you rotate them you move them in and out see if anybody steps in and steps up or old max we didn't have time to get to that but he's got 10 straight games no no points, you know, playing top six. It's not been ideal.

Anything on Jarnkrok you found, like a setback for Jarnkrok? Just to answer the, at practice today, there was multiple guys on maintenance day, including Nylander and Domi. So Benning was in the top six today, but McMahon was up there with Tavares. So that means probably that he's going to start on that line,

and we'll see how it goes. But, yeah, Dewar's maybe back soon. Yeah, Yarncroft is interesting. Let's listen to that clip from the general manager who talked today about Yarncroft's injury. Yarny, yeah, Yarny's is, it's been slow. And I'd say he had a setback over the weekend. And so we're just going to kind of reset here.

I know he's going to New York to a specialist today or tomorrow to get looked at. And we'll see where this goes from there. Sounds like surgery. Sounds like surgery. Sounds like Robitaille Island to me. I don't think he plays again this year. November 11th, your setback, going to see a specialist now.

Groin, hernia, sports hernia thing. Which is not good. I had a doctor tell me sports hernia is not a thing. It's just... Alright. What was Mitch Marner's contract?

It's a funny clip. Derek, can you play that clip for us? It's very funny, yeah. Any contract thoughts on Mitch? I've always got lots of thoughts. Because he always said he talks and I think it was Kevin McGrann asked any thoughts on the contract instead of

talks and he said lots of thoughts lots of thoughts okay let's take a quick break when we return we'll get in a little bit more on a hamstring injury to Max Pacioretty and how long we think he'll, he'll be out.

All right. Dr. Jason Smith, orthopedic surgeon after the break and our doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor,

doctor, doctor, and doctor. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

It's the Leaf Edition Hour, the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Okay, out of the OV Surgical in Scarborough Health Network with 20 years around professional sports. Currently the team doctor of the Toronto Blue Jays and our go-to guy when we pretend to be a doctor and we're not. Doctor Jason Smith. Doctor? Jason Smith. There he is.

Doctor. Sammy, go ahead. Doctor. He's got the mic off. He's like, yeah, doctor. Doctor. Smitty, how are you, buddy? We were way better the last time.

We were. Okay, let's get right to it, okay? I saw something really goofy. I saw Max Pacioretty get cross-checked in what looked like just a good shove in the back, and then he reaches out to his hamstring. What did you see, and what did the pictures tell us? Yeah, so that injury is kind of one of those freak injuries

where, you know, getting that jolt in the back, all of a sudden he kicks his leg out to kind of stabilize himself. And his hamstring is acting in a way that it normally doesn't act. It's extending as it's contracting to control his balance. So it takes this abnormal force across it and bang, that's when you see him grabbing his leg. And go ahead, Kent. No, just to follow it up, like hamstrings are really rare, are they not, in hockey? Is it more of a goaltending thing?

No, we see hamstrings in hockey and in all sports all the time. They're quite common, actually, you know, especially these little grade one to twos, adductors, hamstrings, you know, we see them all the time. Do they get pulled off the bone ever? Is that the rarity? Like, could he have pulled it right off a bone scenario?

No, the vast majority of time, these are tears within the fascia or within the muscle belly itself. The fibers of the muscle start kind of pulling and tearing. Rarely does it ever pull off the bone. And I mean, when it does, that's catastrophic. That's surgery. That's six months. That's a whole different bag than we see 95% of the time where it's just tearing within that muscle. And so in terms of coming back to play for a guy who's, what, 35 years old, something like that, is it something that if you come back too soon, you can make worse? Is this something, how much

time are we looking at to get a guy like him back? Yeah, so, I mean they're, for sure they've had an MRI. You know, they're calling it a strain and he's on the IL, the short term. So I think they're thinking grade one, you know, at most. They're thinking this is something

he can come back, you know, soon from. So he's come back, you know, soon from. So he's 35, though, right? And he came off those two Achilles tendon, you know, injuries where he had surgery on his other leg. And so over the last two years, like, has this guy been working out his legs like he normally would? Like, he's gone through so much. And he's 35. So, of course, they're going to be cautious. You know, they're going to make sure.

They have this guy for a year, and they want to use him. So they're not going to push him back right away. But you would think a strain, a grade one, a guy like this, you know, a couple weeks, he could be back. Grade two would be four to six weeks? No, it depends. Once you get to grade threes, you know, where the muscle fibers actually start to separate and there starts to be gaps and stuff, yeah, then you're looking at six to eight weeks. But, you know, grade one strain, no, a couple weeks.

So you mentioned his surgeries on his Achilles tendon. Like, is it far-fetched to think that the body sometimes overcompensates or one may have to do with another or is that just a stretch no absolutely right you know ankle bones connected to the knee bone connected to the hip bone like it's all it's all part of the whole functional balance of his lower extremities of his core so he's rehabbing one he's dealing with something on one side for a couple years no doubt it's having an effect on his ability to train and balance and and stabilize himself those big muscles he can't work them in the same way so these are all related these are all connected

no question uh doc i'll turn it to uh cal yarn crock another toronto maple leaf who one of the words that they said with his injury was sports hernia I was talking to our mutual friend Dr. Carolyn Scott and she told me uh a sports hernia is not really a thing and I said what do you mean it's not a thing sports what so is sports hernia not really a thing is that right no it's a thing it's just not a hernia as we think about hernia is like the pushing of your organs through the fascia in your stomach wall. Awesome. Sounds great. That's not what these are. These are little kind of micro tears, little injuries of the abdominal fascia and structures down by your pubis there.

So it's more of a strain of the fibers of the muscles in that area, not a traditional hernia where stuff starts poking through. So sports hernia exists and it's used to describe a group of injuries that aren't like traditional hernia. So I think that's what she was getting at. So why is his not getting better? And what's the next step? A type of surgery? What would a surgery do for a young croak? Yeah. You know, in, in situations where they don't get better, you know, you actually have to go in there and open up that fascia and repair that, you know,

in extreme circumstances. But, you know, they're, they're difficult injuries. They, they present in such weird ways and some guys get through them and some guys don't.

And the vast majority of the time, this is, this is non-surgical, but you know, if you can't get through it, some guys don't. And the vast majority of the time, this is non-surgical. But, you know, if you can't get through it, you got to open it up, throw some sutures in there and get her fixed. All right. Doctor. Doctor.

Doctor. Doctor. Doctor. And doctor. Great stuff, man. Really appreciate your time under short notice giving us the goods. Thanks, Doc. Yeah, talk to you soon.

Thanks. All right. Patches. we don't just play one on tv we actually don't get one compensating could be come he's an old guy blue hammy i'm a hammy you know what's funny is i was thinking of the tweet while we're doing this segment it's you i'm only 35 i have my whole life ahead of me sports broadcaster here comes the oldest player in the league he's 32 a miracle you know it's like we're talking about patch ready like we're gonna roll him out of there you know on a gurney he's 35 it is though for a guy that's been through what he's been through in the last year and a half two years with that yeah those are definite right and the thing that worries me the most about it with him it sucks is that you can tell the way he's playing, he was trusting everything. He was hammering guys.

He was skating hard. He was cardio. He's trusting everything. And now you go, you sit in the shelf for, what, three, four weeks. You come back. Are you trusting everything's going to knock? You're begging yourself after practice, trying to get your win back. It's just, it's not going to be, listen,

I'm going to say this breaking news right here. It's not going to be the same when he comes back. Yeah, I agree with Sam. Sure, like Nick Robertson's really disappointed. Oh, he's keeping him up at night. I want to know how Nick made that happen. That's what I want to know.

That's not a knock against him because we've all been in that situation. Oh no, the one guy ahead of me on the power play is hurt? That's too bad. Oh, maybe you got to come to me now. I'm not sure Nick's ever going to score again. He scored right in front.

He scored. No, he didn't. It was a clear goal interference. I mean, Bobby McMahon booted the goalie in the face as he was about to shoot in the net. He blew on him.

Yeah. But I thought it was pretty funny that Nick Robertson in front of me in the net that I was sitting behind scored the first goal of the game. And looked at you and pointed and went, it's that guy. It's that guy.

Yeah. Losing a little bit of faith in old Nick. Me too. I said preseason, 20 goal guy. I said if he went somewhere else, could be a 25 goal guy. I don't know if he's a 12 goal guy. I don't know if he's a 5 goal guy. Can now, can he get the opportunity up the lineup maybe? He's never going to make it work on the checking line. I think he's a five goal guy can now can he get the opportunity up the lineup maybe

he's never going to make it work on the checking line I think he's going to get a few looks in Columbus that's down the road I think wanted to quickly mention on Friday night

the Red Wings didn't play very well obviously Derek Lalonde was with some of the most stunningly bad coaching Wanted to quickly mention, on Friday night, the Red Wings didn't play very well, obviously. Derek Lalonde was with some of the most stunningly bad coaching I've seen in a long time. What did you not like that stood out? At the end of the game, their Leafs are up 2-1. The Detroit Red Wings have offensive zone time for what must have been a minute and a half with like two minutes left in the game. They don't get the goalie out. Yeah. They don't get the goalie out. Yeah.

They don't get the goalie out. It's like, I was sitting with the guys. I'm like, they're not going to get the goalie out? Then they bring the puck. Got to exercise caution. And then they bring the puck back into their own zone. And the goalie leaves with like the breakout. Like they're breaking it out.

And he's skating out. And then Tavares just picks a pocket, shoots it into an open net. It was unbelievably bad. Just you have offensive zone time. Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I don't know. God. It was unbelievably bad. You have offensive zone time. I couldn't believe it. I don't know. God, they're in trouble. I'm going to start hearing Joel Quenville's name there a little bit more.

But what's he? Their roster is not very good. I know. It's a lot of guys. I'm like, who is that? A guy like Joel can come in and he can wear the rest of the season and miss the playoffs off of Lalonde's year. This reminds me of what you're talking about.

And then have the pressure the following year to make the playoffs. But there's way more talent in Vancouver than there is in Detroit, in my opinion. There's some good players. They've got some good players, but they're not that far off to even Montreal. Are we sure who... We know they're talented players.

We know that they can score. But what's their ceiling? What's Dylan Larkin's offensive ceiling? Who's going to, yeah, exactly. Andrew Kopp, Alex Debrinket. Who's going to really take this team by the throat and just drag people with them? Teresanko. Teresanko. Who's going to really take this team by the throat and just drag people with them? Tarasenko.

Tarasenko. Who wants Patty Kane? Tarasenko and Kane, I told you, made no sense to me. 77, red and white. Edvinson? Oh, my God. I know he's part of their rebuild. Maybe just a bad night for him on Friday.

I don't know. They're just no one. 6'6 and young is hard. When you go out there and you watch a team, you're expecting, like, okay, that's the guy that jumps out to me that's the guy that jumps out they just have no it's a lot of blah mid you know what they did they went out and spend money the second a d-man would look good they're like ben charotte had that run to the playoffs montreal get ben charotte justin hull uh the rumors he's pretty good looks good he's fine justin

hall looks good no no i'm saying like before they got him. He did. Well, the numbers liked him. Jeff Petrie had a couple of years where it was like, oh, Jeff Petrie. And it was like, get him. Three and a half, four hour drive from Detroit. The scouts can't make the trip. How did you not know what Hall was? Sherrod Petrie Hall. He's in your division.

Ugly. Buddy, I'm not saying it's good. I'm not sitting here saying they did good. They did bad. Bad. Mid. Yeah. Mid. I thought not saying it's good. I'm not sitting here saying they did good. They did bad. Bad. Mid. Yeah. Mid. I thought Patty Kane looked good, though. Had a couple moments with the puck where he still looked like Patrick Kane.

Yeah, he moves like him. Yeah. I mean, the ghost of Patrick Kane, maybe. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. Anyways. Just like our show today, mid. Are we mid or are we good? No, we're mid as hell today. Mid. We're going to get good in the next hour as we go national because we're gonna welcome in kevin shovel day off general manager of the hottest

team in a hot wonder why he agreed to come on the hottest start in history 14 and one don't go away we go national next.