Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Curtains on the Core

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to the Toronto Maple Leafs' 6-1 loss to the Florida Panthers in Game 7 on Sunday and discuss what led to the familiar season finale. They reflect on the enduring playoff failures of this core, the Leafs' sloppy start and what needs to change for next season. Then, they dig into the postgame availability and dissect Auston Matthews' comments on 'passengers' in Game 7. Later, they discuss the likely end of Mitch Marner's Toronto tenure and what the team could look like without him next year. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam discuss and debate the growing narrative around the pressure of playing in the Toronto market.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

The Kiprio's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Austin Mackey in for Derek Brandale. Jake the Snake Schultz. Next two hours, including our Leaf Edition Hour, where we've got a lot of explaining to do. Maple Leafs go down very quietly in game seven. And the Panthers advance in the Eastern Conference Final. Do you have any of that aspirin? I just crushed the bottle, sorry. All of a sudden, I got a splitting headache. Yeah.

Sammy. What? What, what do you want? I came into the office today, not that there were ever a talkative group, but man, oh man, it was really quiet, really quiet here. And I suppose that it's due to the fact that I'm not sure

what we have in store for the next hour to explain how two games at home, the last two games at home, the Leafs are outscored 12- if I would have told you that mm-hmm that there was a chance that Florida Would out score the Leafs in the last two games at home 12 to you Probably would have told me I would have believed you Why wouldn't I pull it well because it was supposed to be different this year Yeah, I will say Kip I I've said this a couple times and I know it's laying my reputation on the line when I say it but I was shocked

truly wholly shocked that It happened again game five. I was like, oh like once in a while good teams get beat bad at home I mentioned Florida did it in the cup final last year But they had a chance to redeem themselves under the pressure to do it again was almost it was almost a gift because we don't have to wonder what if it was just definitive. They got mopped and I'm shocked. And I listen, I've been around the game a long time. I can't begin to give you an

Honest well, not an honest a Reason why just a reason why I don't even know where to start. I know Kip. I know I know exactly what you're saying Effort maybe maybe not like no, they're not gonna not try and don't care Come on. No care too much. I Don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The more I'd watch this team, probably the worse I would get at trying to break down why we saw a game five and a game seven.

Which is maybe the worst case scenario for analysis that you see out there is it's a bit of a Rorschach test. I'm not sure how to say that exactly, but people see what they wanna see on this and impose whatever they wanna impose. The guys have no heart or maybe they are poorly coached or maybe they should, everyone can put whatever they want on this

because no one can definitively say you're wrong. It is baffling how good a team they were and can show that they can be even in just game six To be that in game five and seven Yeah, Samuel How you doing? I'm bad. You're bad. You're not good. You're not good. I'm not good. I really Last night, you know you try to I think I said on Friday that there's two outcomes where,

you know, they have a miracle comeback in this series. And though that's a good outcome. And if they end up losing the series, it's a good outcome too, because changes are there and like all these all this bull crap I said to myself to try to convince myself that I would be okay with the loss in either of those games. And I'm just not. I'm just not. And just the whole ecosystem of being a Toronto Maple Leaf fan right now, today, is horrendous. It is a horrendous world to live in as a Toronto Maple Leaf fan right now. The butt of every joke as usual, the conversations of every other guy on the other team feeling sorry for you The superstar homegrown guy that everybody hates is gonna now leaving and it shouldn't be like that

It's just the ecosystem that we are living in is a hellscape for Toronto Maple Leaf fans. I'm feeling it I know all my brothers and sisters who love the Leafs are feeling it. It's an awful day fellas. I'm sick Yeah, really like I'm not trying to sugarcoat this at all. This isn't a take. This is pure emotion of how I'm feeling. I feel awful. I'm bad, bad. And I think you speak for a lot of people out there, Sammy. Well, the pain that you endured as a Leaf fan

10 years ago, and to watch this new era come in, Brendan Shanahan came in, there was gonna be short term pain, which everybody bought into so you could build it up. And it started with top picks, top 10 picks. Yeah. Willie, Marner. Matthews. Matthews.

The hometown hero returning home. And that was the start of it. Marner Matthews Matthews the hometown hero returning home and That was that was the start of it and now here we are today where The band finally breaks up. Mm-hmm, right and well, obviously we got lots of time It ain't just today. We got lots of time to pick through all that for sure for sure But let's let's let's I want to before we start picking at all of it here, what do you wanna say? Just to your point,

like I think that's what's really hard for me and I'll speak for Leaf fans to come to grips with, is just how fast this seemingly happened. That it felt like, it feels like honestly boys, just last year. This is you being middle-aged because this is what it's like Like having kids. It's like oh my god. My son's eight. No, but it's just a blink

2017 feels like last year and it was all hope and it was just looking forward and being like, oh my god they have Marner Matthews Nylander all young all in their primes or gonna have them for all this time and just you snap your fingers and nothing has happened and they're all hated and it's just I I don't why never dreamt it would be like this I said before like all this possible simulations of this universe this is pretty much the worst okay let's just let's just break down a little bit game 7 okay because what did we see what What did we like, not like about game seven besides the outcome?

Let's just start with the first five or 10 minutes where Florida kind of had their way with them. And lo and behold, I mean, they were still at zeros. And it seemed that they weathered the storm. That's the catch phrase, obviously, post game from everybody. And they had a decent back half of a first period where at times they were better than Florida.

Like it looked like it was shaping up to be one of these epic second and third periods. It did. You know, like you said, they hung in there and going into the game, I was like, if Joseph Wall is good for them, this is gonna be, you're gonna end up with a game where it's like the so-and-so game.

It's the Marner game or it's the whatever where someone has a big moment. It's gonna be close. There's gonna be something, one moment that this game hangs on. Wall comes out, keeps the minute, makes all these huge saves. All of a sudden the Leafs find their feet a little bit.

Willie almost scores that one, right? You know, the solo effort. And it felt like this was, where at that point they had worked through the tension and found their game, Wool got them there. And a couple of big scoring opportunities, if I'm not mistaken, Lawton, and then Lawrence had a breakaway.

He had a breakaway. Do you think there's any world at all where if he scores, there's just a different energy moving forward? Of course, of course. That changes the game, yes. All of a sudden, it's like, they have to take some chances, they have to open up,

it all starts to work in the least favor if one of those Goes in early God loves Stevie Lorenz, but could you just mix in a fake? I know from distance a Top of circles midnet wrist Mix in a pump thing. I think or something. I think in November he could have maybe Seven totally so much stick him in the line You see Bobrowski though out top of the pain out nothing Zero, I want to say Bob is one of the best in the league in those one-on-one scenarios

He's really good flies out depth and yeah Okay, let's let's get let's get Craig Ruby's Overview of of game, game seven. We got out of the first period. You know, they came hard the first 10, 11 minutes. You know, we weathered that storm. I thought we started to come, took a penalty, killed it off. So going into the second, you know, it was more of the same like the first.

I mean, we just didn't handle the pressure tonight that they came with. You know, we got, you know, so obviously it wasn't good enough. The Leafs' 75 shot attempts allowed are the most by any team this season through two periods, regular season and playoffs. So after those two periods,

no team, not the Sharks the Ducks anyone had allowed 75 shot attempts as the Leafs did in that game. Yeah to Florida Not to start a useful or useless Kind of conversation on on that data But I get the territorial kind of advantage of just being there alone is telling you how much you're dominating kind of advantage of just being there alone is telling you how much you're dominating. But I didn't get a sense that there was even in the first period that they had a lot of top quality in the middle chances. Yeah, I think that's fair Kip. I didn't sit there after the first intermission and go, oh, they're in trouble. I like that spot. It felt like an extension of game six.

It felt like it. At times it felt like an extension of the whole season that this is the way the Leafs play right there Okay in these games. They're okay in these games. We'll block our shots. We'll have a great Goaltender behind us if we don't block the shot. He's gonna be there and we're in a bit of a comfort zone here, the way we want to play this, but that's not a regular team on the other side. There's a team that just find different ways to beat you. And maybe that would have been enough to discourage any other team, but not the Florida Panthers. Yeah.

I mean, I think to your point about playing it like the regular season, there's also, the second the first goal goes in, they immediately stop playing. Like they immediately look like they always do in that scenario where it gets tight, their feet stop moving, looks like there's a fear, looks like nobody wants to make the next big mistake which leads them making the big mistakes Yeah, that first goal like I tell me times I text you guys in the group chat first goal first goal first goal And Seth Jones snaps that wonder off under the bar on a shot great shot my god It's just like you could feel it immediately immediately. I got the sense Sammy that like Okay, does anybody want the puck? Yeah. No one wants it. Nobody wants it on their stick. Nobody was confident to say it's mine. What does that mean there?

I would love Kip, I wish I had the clips of Riley in at times kind of hesitant reaching for pucks rather than moving his feet and getting into it. I totally agree that there is a lack of like, that's mine, I want that. So you know, it's unrelated to the outcome, I'm sure, but there's some irony in all these fans being upset about a missed high stick and was it 93, and then the ref takes a high stick this year, and that changes the game.

Like right after that stoppage was when Florida regrouped and put the boot. It slowed everything right down. Yeah. Yeah, building was electric. They'd come off the good end of that period, and that was really scary, I right down. Yeah. Yeah building was electric They'd come off the good end of that period and that was really scary. I might add that was We got an update on that but that was that was horrible But it really did feel like it changed the momentum and then they took advantage they did yeah, and that's

You know, I don't know if you need a couple more saves or what there But if you go through the lineup and say who'd you like? a couple more saves or what there, but if you go through the lineup and say, who'd you like? Who did you like? And I think, like, I liked, compared to what I expect from them, I liked Chris Tanev and I liked Scott Lawton. I don't have any other answers. Yeah. And it's just nowhere near enough. Nowhere near, nowhere near, not even close to enough. Not even close to enough. All right, let's get Craig Bruby's thoughts about the disappointment of the series. Craig, from where you sit, what was the most disappointing part of the series?

Games five and game seven at home. You know, I thought we did a great job fighting for home ice. Had a good home record all year, you know. To me, that's the most disappointing part in the series. For sure. These poor fans, man. I mean, it's crazy though that like after they lost game five, the way we did,

the way they did, that all the fans that I talked to, and we talked about it on the show the next day, saw them winning game six, going home home and losing like people saw this outcome. This was not like I cannot believe that happened. So Games four through seven. I think I have it here games four through seven Since 2018 at home They're three and thirteen They're three and 13. They've been outscored 55 to 29 and then eight of those 16 games, they scored one or goal, one goal or less.

It's crazy. There's no other explanation other than can't handle the pressure, fear and pressure. Like what you, you can't sit me down and you can try to lay out every other scenario for what that possibly is. But they just can't handle it. There's no other way to look at it, is there? Well, let's ask Craig Bruby, is it between the ears? Well, I look at, you know, I don't think the moment's too big for him.

You know, I think it's, you know, we went into Ottawa and won game six and won a series. We went into Florida and won game six to make it a game seven. So the moment's not too big. For me, it's all between the years. It's a mindset. These guys are capable of doing it. You just gotta execute it.

And we didn't execute it. We didn't execute it in game five. We didn't execute it in game seven. we didn't execute it in game seven. You know, I don't have an answer for that, why? But that's the bottom line. Thanks. Yeah, I couldn't disagree more. Okay. Yeah.

He just hasn't been around long enough to watch in the past. Yeah, I love it. Totally, I mean. It's just, it's a good comment. Well, you said that on the show, he hasn't seen it the Yeah, I love it. Totally. I mean, it's just it's a good comment. He hasn't seen it the way I've seen it. I get it. He wants to protect his guys. I get that. No, no problem. No issues there whatsoever. But you can't compare a big moment against an Ottawa Senators team and a big moment against Boston, Florida, and Tampa Bay the last five or six years.

I'm sorry, but Ottawa was never a contending team. They were a team that was scratching the surface, needed to get into the playoffs just to experience it, and that's it. And the truth be told, I'm not sure necessarily if the Leafs outright won the Atlantic Division or the Florida Panthers just kind of gave it to them at the end of the season. They just said it's not worth laying ourselves on the line. They sat half their team for multiple games. Half of it. Okay. So yes, and they knew what they were doing because Matthew Kachuk had

no problems telling people close to him that we don't care. We don't care if we win the division or not. We don't care about home ice advantage or not. We can win anywhere at any time. We have the confidence. We don't care who we play. We don't. And they played like that. Yeah, he stunk by the way. Anyway. Listen, yeah, he didn't need to- I don't mean to undermine your point.

Your point is correct. And the truth be told, they were very fortunate to win the division and get Ottawa. But if by chance they didn't, and they played Florida in the first round, we'd be talking about a first round knockout. And you know, a lot of the teams you mentioned

that they have played in the first round that have knocked them out, you talked about contenders, have gone to the cup final. Like Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay, Boston, Florida, like these teams that they're losing to are good teams, but that's what you're talking about is when you go up against the good ones and you will in playoffs, that's when they're big games.

That's when you're finding out if you can hang against the cup contending teams. And boy, it's a definitive no. And because of that, we're gonna have a week and a summer summers long discussions about what changes and what it looks like to become that you know not to just assign blame but find solutions and suggestions and figure this thing out. What needs to change boys?

It's not easy a short list but like if there was one element if you could boy is what is it? Go find some guys that know how to win. Okay. Not enough. Not nearly enough and Matthews Marner, Tavares and Willie and Morgan like they're good hockey players but they're they just don't know how to Matthews Marner, Tavares and Willie and Morgan, they're good hockey players, but they just don't know how to win this time of year. See, even in that game, Tanev talking to McCabe or whatever is like, go forward, let's go, let's go,

let's get up the ice. You can see him trying to coax guys, come on. And you do see that frustration from guys who. And fire in their belly a little bit. Yeah. Let's go to Craig Bruby on which team had it last night, clip three. I think this team has fire. I mean, like I said, I can't explain right now or do I want to?

Five and seven at home That's you know, it's obviously things that we got to look at and talk about as a organization There you go He thinks they have fire. I'm sure he sees tell me Sammy, but no like I'm sure he's talking about I mean what we got a look at his organization. No, no fire. Well, he's he's talking about I mean what for we gotta look at as an organization No, no fire. Well, I think he's lying. I think he's probably protecting I think he's probably but like who's the closest to having a spark? I have no idea like Domi Lawton, I guess sure Tana of McCabe. Yeah Benoit. Yeah, you know, there's not a ton of guys The guys on the periphery peripher The guys on the periphery.

Which, go ahead. Yeah, you know, I look at the way, people talk for years about the way the Leafs salary cap is constructed, but you look at Lundell at five million and Luster Inans in the twos or threes. They had Marchand kinda in that window. And you look at the guys in the twos or threes

for the Leafs, David Camp doesn't play in the playoffs. Cali Yarncroc, I called him an NPC, like a non-player character. He's just kind of the computer out there doing his thing. Domi's making 3.75. I know he had one big goal. Scored a big one last night. Yeah.

Got the building really excited. I know. For 30 seconds. Domi's a little different from them because he's got a little of that spark. But the guys in that window are not Lundell and Luster-Einand and Marchand. That's where a little of that spark. But the guys in that window are not Lundell and Luster, Ryan and Marchand. That's where the team is fundamentally different.

Obviously, I didn't think Barkov killed him. I didn't think Kachuk killed him. But Barkov does kill you. It's by a thousand cuts, but he gets you. And he's never in the wrong place at the wrong time. And he just, he can settle that team 200 feet. And he's so good that he doesn't even think that he has to go out there and score a goal. He can just find ways to beat you just being in the right place at the right time, either

making a quick pass or moving the, and getting everybody in place. I cannot tell you how impressed I am with this guy. Listen, he's an unbelievable player. I don't, you know, I think when we're talking about him, you end up talking about Matthews, and I think Matthews is a lot of those things. He's a lot of the things that aren't goals, and a lot of the things you wanna see.

He just doesn't score the goals, he doesn't have the moments, but he does a lot of hockey things, face-offs, D-zone play, all that sort of stuff. That's great, but you're looking for more. There's no, I'm not. Matthews has fallen short of expectations and is a part of the group that can't muster it in the big games.

He's now he's the leader of it. Yeah Yeah Big disappointment 34 but I think to your point about bringing in guys that know how to win and nor fiery or whatever the bark of Matthews comparison is a very like apt one where They have a bunch of hyenas and mutants around barkov but he's a quieter guy, doesn't take any penalties, good defenses on them on their teams. Yeah.

Is it that different? That's right. Like it's just you have to like surround him with guys that are going to pull him into the fight as opposed to surrounded with other guys who have the exact same sort of mentality as him. Which in itself is a criticism of Matthews. Totally! But your first clip, yeah, right, as maybe upset a few people. Yeah, I'd say. It belongs to Austin Matthews and it's his comment about passengers. Let's have a listen.

I thought, felt like we were ready to play felt like we were you know in a good In a good mindset Like I said, I thought the first you know ten minutes we didn't You know, they came out strong and the next ten minutes. I thought we controlled play You know, and then I just thought we had Too many Passengers throughout the rest of the game and just weren't on the same page and you know they get a couple goals in momentum like that and then you're chasing the game

and it's hard to hard to get it back you know when you're down three against a good team that plays sound defensively like them. So who's he talking about? What passengers? I said to Sammy he's not wrong. I just said there's no drivers. You know, like they, too many, sure, but it obviously includes him. You know, you have 18 skating passengers and no driver.

So yes, it's too many, but when you're not a driver, tough to make the comment. You're waiting at the bus stop for the guy to come out of the washroom. Listen, the only thing out of his mouth should have said, I'm the driver of this thing and I didn't show up, okay? Can't have passengers on a bus without a driver. I don't even know that these guys know. Why would you go there?

Why would he go there? Because I think he's just looking for crutch cliches to not say anything the rut the thing that Hurt me the most about that clip is The calc like the pause right but he's like am I gonna say this am I gonna say this and then he's like Yeah, and then he says the P word which It's I mean it's talking about other teammates I mean you look at his bottom six or whatever and they haven't scored anything.

Like, it's just something you don't say to me. It's just, it's a bad, and listen, what has been one of the biggest complaints about this era is the way that they've addressed these finishes. The way that they've taken no accountability, that the way they've, like just the entire organization has had this sense of arrogance. And it's just the exact same, except for poor old John DeVar.

I don't know if you saw John DeVar's post game last night. I wasn't even cut it, because he thought Brady Kachuck was sad, like, oh my God, he was almost crying. Like it was horrible. But like, the Matthews, Marner, neither of them have ever really been like like it's my fault. And I can't tell you how far that would go.

And even if it's not their fault, you think PR would tell them that it's not all their fault. You're supposed to wear it as the faces wear it. They won't do it. That's all just do it. Do it please. Tomorrow morning. They're addressing the media. That's all just do it. Do it. Please tomorrow morning They're addressing the media brew bay and select players tomorrow at 10 30 a.m

They're doing it you you cannot I'm telling you you cannot come out and Say the same old crap. You can't say the same. Oh crap. We feel good to say it I'm pleading if anybody from least PR PR. Will he say it and mean it? I don't care if he means it. Is it because you're told? I don't care if he means it. You need a PR guy to come up to you and say, hey buddy, fake sincerity.

Yeah, if that's what it takes, fake it baby, lie, lie. This fan base. It won't do me any good, I can tell you that. Kipper, you're smart and you know these things, like you're a savvy veteran broadcaster who can read these kind of things. Me, Dumbo, like me and my fellow friends, fans, we need some accountability here, buddy.

Yeah, even if it's a lie, they haven't got there yet. So. Maybe we're just, maybe he's just not the guy that everybody envisioned, Austin. Maybe he's just not the guy that everybody envisioned, Austin. Maybe he's just a really good goal scorer, but the rest of it, maybe not. Like I'm watching this last night and see, for me, Austin Matthews is Malkin in Pittsburgh.

Very talented, can show that he can play the game as well as anybody, has the talent to be the best player on the ice. But Malkin's nothing if there's no 87. Matthews needs a Crosby, he needs something. He can't do it being the number one guy. I mean, it would be pretty hard to sit here and disagree. Can't.

Yeah, see, I think it's dismissive of his game. I think he's much better than you give him credit for you. What's better? Tell me what's better. He does everything. Talent. He does everything. You're giving me talent. I'm not. You're saying talent. I haven't said it once. But you can't lead. He does giving me talent. I'm not you're saying talent. I haven't said it once but he

You can't lead he's not a leader. Well, I don't know what that means. He's not he's not a fiery guy He doesn't punch people in the face. He's not that Malkin is he's bark off to me. He's bar No, he's not by you surround catch up You know Matthew's with Kachak instead of Marner and give him Bennett instead of Nylander and give him Verhaggy instead of Tavares. And I think you swap these guys and they're the same success. To me, it's not, I'm not saying he's a perfect player,

but I'm saying it's dismissive of him to be like, you can't be a guy. I'm not sure he's got what it takes to be the leader. He's earned those questions. And as of today, you're right. I 100% he hasn't proven anything but that. You're right. I can't.

Yeah. It'd be really hard for me and Borny Kipper to sit here and be like, yeah, he can get it done. No, I know. I know. I know. You know what? Yeah. My take on Austin like yeah, he can get it. No, I know Know what yeah, I take on Austin Matthews is he always comes through like it'd be a really hard I mean to me. Yeah, so what do you need? You need to go sign? Marchand now in the offseason. I don't think that's the answer. No, I'd kill for that, but they won't do it I'd love to get a lot of these guys who are available for three years

Love a three-year Bennett deal love a three-year Marchand deal Mm-hmm, you know then it's Signed it could sign Ninety million dollars. Yeah, he's not taking a three-year. Of course. He's not right. Absolutely So or shitty so there's two more conversations big ones that I want to have I mean I Think the Marner one and the fan conversation are two ones I really want to get into in terms of what Murray Maurice and Marshaan had to say after the game but I think we should probably talk about Marner here

and what's it this means for him we're have a long week of talking about this but we might as well fire it up you want to start with his comments after the game yeah I do all right look look what everything took a you know maybe a risky pick on a small kid from Toronto and I've been forever grateful to be able to wear this maple leaf and be a part of the some of the great legends here and Be able to wear this jersey. So never taken a day for granted Always always loved it Yeah, I sound like a goodbye to me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no question

Yeah, I think it's merciful at this point for everyone, right? Better for him. Better for the Leafs. Like it's not better for the Leafs. Well, they're not going to get better in the regular season. Not better for the Leafs. The Leafs are just walking, watching an asset to a hundred point legit, a hundred point guy, their most valuable player, their best player, from beginning defensively right to the net. Okay, one of the best players. He was useless. For sure, for sure.

They all were useless at the end yet again, but you're gonna have a tough time replacing that. Oh, for God's sake, of course It's not there's those he doesn't exist. There's not another one of him to go get I mean I'd be really hard to sit here kipper and look at you again and tell you that the least are gonna be better without Mitch Marder. Yeah, the thing is they're gonna be different They're gonna be the whole is that in those games They they talked Marsha and and Maurice talked about or Chuck and Maurice talked about in preseason

Talking about what are preparing for game seven building for game seven? And that's the Leafs next step is how do you be better in game seven in these series when Marner leaves? Before you get to that get to How do we make sure we make the playoffs again next year? That is a real question. Okay. I know. That's not your first question on how to beat Florida this time next year.

Do we get back into the playoffs next year? That's for me reality. I'm not sure. Yeah. I'm not sure what the team looks like. And even Tavares. So you take a hundred point guy, he's gone. We're not sure what you want to do with Tavares. Who scored about 35?

35, 37. And do you bring him back on the sole reason why he can just help us make the playoffs again. Well, okay. All right. Now you put Bennett and Barkov again up against Matthews and Tavares again next year and watch Lindell be the difference maker and bury you again? Or do you give the job to a younger guy who can, you can groom for the next two, three, four years

and hope you can contend again? I think it's hard because of sentiment, because I said this, I wrote this in my article today. If you have like four ingredients and it keeps baking you a failed cake, it doesn't matter if the ingredients are on sale or at a discount, the ingredients don't work. So I have a lot of respect for John DeVires.

He came home, he works his tail off. Good, honest man, scored a ton of respect. The cake doesn't work. It doesn't. And I know he wants to be here. And I know people want that story to reach this happy ending. The cake keeps falling flat.

So- But the cake can also help you. You can, you had a better chance of maybe eating the cake in April or May. Just having it stale in at the end of 82 games. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.

So, okay, go ahead. We just can't build a team being like, we're just trying to make playoffs. Like no one here wants that anymore. Wow. Hey. Yeah, if you knew how much money they made per playoff game, and what the alternative is if you miss the playoffs, you'll take a bad cake in May.

So they'll take a $3 million John Tavares. I don't know what the answer is to that, but you're gonna have to see what Mitch Marner leaves you with and what's available to come back before you can even go down the path of John Tavares. And if John wants to wait, he can wait. And if he wants to go and play in Buffalo or anywhere else, then I'm sure you're going to have a greater chance

to make a lot more money July 1st from another team than you would the Toronto Maple Leafs. So, the Marner conversation, you know, I've mentioned this last week, but it just, you know, as much as a critic I've been of Mitch Marner and as hard on him as I've been and it just, the way this is played out really sucks. Yeah, there's no, there's no way around it. There's no way around it.

And he's trying to yell at his teammates and trying to fire them up. I don't know. I just Depressing boys. I wish I was not going over great is that moment along with the passengers and Matthews? Yeah, the I mean I think that's a guy that Realizing that his time with the team that he was drafted and developed was was over and he's yelling at his teammates listen Last year Willie screamed at him and everybody loved it. So I'm not gonna- No, no, Willie, it was, Mitch, when he was on the bench

and he threw his gloves down, that wasn't about Mitch, that was about Willie and Austin going at each other. Whatever it was. It was. Don't care at all. Whatever. That doesn't matter. I'd rather them, in all honesty, I'd rather somebody scream at somebody

than just sit there and do nothing. I agree Okay well Better not be talking about that Marner clip because all year you've been telling us that you can't yell at your guys if you're playing like Nothing, buddy. The game was over his careers as a leaf is over there. You could do whatever he wants. He's going out his way What's his name was I mean Barube is trying to fire them up. It was just a pretty frustrating his way. What's his name was I mean Barube is trying to fire the mop. It was just a pretty frustrating situation for everybody. It was over. It's just. So you don't see any scenarios

where he resigns here? Zero. Yeah. Zero. And I don't know there's the Drager put out something that he was offered 13 and a half million times eight by the Leafs? Yep. I think I saw that. Okay. Just imagine for a second he had signed that and where would the fan base be on him today? And I told you guys that. He can't win. Not here. Not here.

It's over. It's over. Okay. If he signed $108 million contract and they lost the way they lost last night Come on You would be justifiably absolutely obliterated. Yes. Yeah, like not leave the house Give him a chance to go out and but he just had a kid

Go get away from all this and all the people around you and all the noise and just yeah and go try to win a cup For sure go try to win a cup for sure go Try to win a cup somewhere else. Absolutely But I mean like I got to tell you Kipper Over the years I've kind of felt like this regret take that like the second he leaves I'm gonna regret it and it's gonna I Watch a game in the playoffs or the least for It's gonna, I watched a game in the playoffs with Elise for nine years.

If he goes somewhere else and figures it out in the playoffs, I will be capital S stunned because it just has never looked good. I won't be stunned, but I will say. He's gonna pull a cadre and win a cup somewhere else. For sure, I think that that probably happens. That'd be the leafiest outcome for sure. I do think that it happens, but I don't think the Leafs will look at that and Leafs fans look at that and go, you know,

Oh, there were fools for letting him go. They'll go, why couldn't he have done it when he was here? Because he was, because they couldn't figure it out up top. That's why. He's up top. No, no, no. The decision makers couldn't figure it out you so he came they were four guys that you put 50 million bucks into a payroll and none of them Could play playoff hockey, but does he none of them? Is there no blame at all for him here kept one fourth one fourth?

Okay of the blame okay at the end of the day out of the four that he was the least highest paid He was fourth on the payroll. Okay. Well this year We haven't even mentioned Willie. Okay, Willie was a dog the last four games. We're not talking Oh, this is what it's always is Guy cuz it's all cuz whenever we want to talk about Mitch it becomes yeah, but look at them It's like a political like what about ism thing. It's like we're don't work together I agree they hold my point is the four guys never work together everybody. Oh Mitchie's like a brother to me. Oh really show it on the ice

Yeah, that's what you do to your brother on the ice? That's the way you guys stick together? Okay, it never worked, okay? And they couldn't realize it up top. That they don't have the personalities, they don't have the character to all work together towards the Stanley Cup. They all went their separate ways.

Give me my contract, give me my no moves, give me my commercials, give me my no moves. Give me my commercials. Give me this. Give me that. Okay? It was as if they were one up in each other for 10 years. And you couldn't figure out the whole time that they're not coming together.

They're all just do your own thing. Ask for your own contracts and make sure you're looked after. And then they get the results of that and we're gonna blame one Individual or two individuals. No, I'm sorry It goes upstairs bad decision to put these four guys together and expect them to lead you to a Stanley Cup Here's what I wrote in my article today. I said ultimately the core core for arrow is fun, but fell flat They got great players who are young immature and prideful who instead of seeing one another as mutual load-bearing pillars,

building some great cathedral of success, fought to be the steeple, visible, above, visible and above the whole. They all wanted to be the one. They all wanted to be the one that said, this is my team, I'm the star. They wanted to be the, you know, the name that comes before the band name sort of thing.

Rather than see each other as a group. And now we're gonna lose one guy. We're just gonna blame one guy His blame he's getting his piece of the pie. He's eating it right now. When do we get to Willie? When do we get to John Tavares? When do we get to willies under contract in here? He's martyrs leaving That's why we're talking about him. Willie also led the team in points and had big moments in the playoffs. Where were they the last four games? The same place as Mitch, who we're talking about right now. I mean, we'll get there. We will get there.

The wrong guys to ask to do this. And in the end, you're right. That's it. And the heartbreaking thing is, is that the Dubas firing when he got fired when that all happened was the window to recoup on Mitch. Totally, totally, totally. And they brought in a fresh set of eyes, which turned out to be the worst possible thing,

where True Living comes in and he's got a week to figure out one of the biggest moves in the history of the franchise and he's still trying to figure out if his key cards work. And Mitch Marner's no trade thing kicks in, and then the rest is history. It would have taken big cojones to make the call at that time, and they didn't show him. And he came in, and he was fooled just like everybody else, being like, oh, look at these four guys.

Why would I trade, these guys are great, why would I trade any of them? And then it just didn't work, so. Yeah, they got boxed in. It's four-four. They got boxed in. Okay, let's take a quick break. We got another segment to go on this.

We only have five more shows to go, boys. Only five more. Five more Leafs hours. All right, more on the Toronto Maple Leafs when we return to the Leaf Hour edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunkus podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. The Kipperio's Bourne Sammy McKee, Leaf Hour edition never broken later in our four

year history. The last block junk. How are we doing boys? We're doing good. Breathe. Okay. Okay, it got so bad last night that your opposition felt sorry for you. This is the darkest part of this. Brad Marchand, can you please play Austin Clip 2 on the Leaf fan pressure?

Yeah, I think it's easy to have, to go into games and have different mindsets. I don't know what their mindset was. I can't speak to that, but I know that our mindset, you know, we have a ton of belief in the system that we play and the depth of our group and the experience in these moments. You know, going through before,

obviously you talk about it, but it's invaluable experience when you go through moments like this and you've been through these moments before and a lot of guys in the team have won cups and when you win a cup and you play in some of the games that this team played in last year, these are not high pressure games. When you're playing for an actual cup

and you give up a three game lead and then you're in game seven like that's A high-pressure game, right? So No in game seven second round. Yeah, it's a high-pressure game, but it's not compared to some other games the guys have played so when you actually look at that and then when you see the pressure that Toronto faces and You know everyone's talking about whatever the 2030 or build-up I don't even know what it is but you see the fans and the way they're talked,

like they just beat the pressure into this team. And it's gotta be tough on those guys to walk to the rink every day and not feel that, because I mean, you see the way the fans treat them at the end, like how do you not feel that every single day? You know, and when you go through big games, like you realize which are actually big games and which are just, you know, big moments.

You want to comment on that? Or do you want to go to Maurice? Maurice is long too. That's fine. Okay, let's forget Maurice. No, it's good, unfortunately. Okay, then we'll cut it off halfway. Clip four, clip four please.

What's great for the league is hard for the Toronto Maple Leafs and their players Right the the passion for the Toronto Maple Leafs the scrutiny that these men are under is Why everybody else gets paid so much? It's a driver But there's a there's a cost to it and there is a for them There's a challenge. Yeah, you can hit one out of the park here and then you're never buying lunch for the rest of your life, right?

But there's a cost for these guys, for their families. When you lose a game like this, it's gonna be rough on them. And they're gonna go through a whole bunch of things that aren't wrong. But they're wrong. You cut it off, please. I'm sick of it. Okay. That was the worst thing I've ever done in my life,

was cutting his availability. We played half of one clip. Really glad I did that. You're strong, man. I think this has been a really popular conversation today with people blaming the fans. And listen, is there pressure? Of course.

If you wanna blame the people, I would argue that we're too loyal. I would argue the opposite, that these people still show up. We're showing these people, how much do they, like I mean, how much are they paying to go to these games? I mean, what were the lower bowl of ticket costs

last night, Kip? Upper bowl, I think the cost is around 1200 bucks. Yeah, okay. For one ticket? For a pair. For a pair. So I don't cost is around 1200 bucks. Yeah, okay. Okay. For one ticket. For a pair. For a pair. For a pair.

So, I don't know, 650, 700, so around that. So people, you know, they just wanna blame the fans for the pressure and like, you know when you could really see that the fans are actually not loyal and actually not gonna care, is if they stop going. If they stop paying $1,200 to go to a game seven, when they actually go there and believe in these guys, and they actually go there

and think this is the game where they won't disappoint me cripplingly. This is the one that they'll push through and not choke like they always do. For me, we're a little bit too loyal. Like I know that's probably chalkboard, nails on a chalkboard to people, but like yeah, there's pressure.

And I see Matthew could chuck on spit and chiclets being like, oh yeah, they put too much pressure. This guy played in Calgary, got shoved in a locker by Connor McDavid in the second round of the playoffs, and bolted immediately to the least pressure place on earth so that he didn't have to deal with any of this he's like oh yeah the one place you played with any pressure you ran away from. JB what did you like about Marcian? I think it's

patronizing and almost intentional it is almost to be like to make me feel like this and also be like yeah don't change anything there this is not the players fault keep everything going you guys have it figured out I just think it's kind of like it's not your era where your dad and four of his buddies on the islanders barely could talk to Edmonton in a Canada right room. Yeah, this is much different. They're closer. They know each other I think Marchand feels for Mitch Marner. I think there's empathy there on what he's going through,

what many of them probably are going through. The other thing too is Paul Maurice and Marchand also know that our league is better with a healthy Toronto Maple Leafs. We need their fans to keep paying these prices because we're a better league with the Leafs than without them. For sure. It's that simple. They're so bad that we have to come to their defense. Which is way worse. And I will tell you that the majority of the fans are good fans. There's just some bad apples out there

Well, can I say that so? 2006 miss the playoffs 2007 miss the playoffs 2008 miss the playoffs 2009 miss the playoffs 2010 miss the playoffs 2011 miss the playoffs Hold on 2012 miss the playoffs we know the lost in round one in 2013 miss playoffs miss playoffs miss playoffs round one round One round one qualifying round three one seriously blown we can read we know we know Why would the fans be upset about this? It's okay to be upset Hey, you know what's not okay? Oh what being mean to Mitch is that what it is like? Oh putting his address on the internet who did and then telling people that That if you have any issues go tell them how you feel.

That is offside. That's illegal. And that is wrong. And that crap happens to these players in this market. Okay? And I'm telling you right now, these players talk. The extra players that went down to the dressing room with about five minutes to go in the game last night

Three or four of them got berated in the hallway and in the elevator. They got hammered Absolutely hammered, you know what happens? They go around they talk to their buddies and they tell them how bad it is and how tough it is And if they're not careful careful this team's not careful no one's gonna want to play here that's how bad it can get I'm sure it's not bad in New York with the Yankees or Liverpool with the just won the Champions League like it's not I'm sure it's not bad I'm just saying Sammy I think a certain type of player with the, you know, fortitude to handle the risk or

war to be in here. All right. Leafs out of the playoffs and we've solved nothing in the last hour. We go national though. What do we have on board, Sammy? Bukes. Jason Bukala. More answers nationally when we return to Real Kipper and Born.