Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Debasing Dubas

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to the news out of Ottawa that the Senators will be relieving DJ Smith of his duties, the timing of the news, what Jacques Martin can bring to the team as interim and the Daniel Alfredsson factor. Then, onto the Leafs and their 7-0 beatdown on the Penguins in Dubas' return to Toronto. They get into the contributions of Treliving's signings, Knies' electrifying physical game and the fact that they did it all without Matthews and Brodie. Later, more on the game and the bigger picture as they discuss where to go with the goalies and Liljegren's return.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

welcome into the real kipper and born show the toronto maple leaf edition leaf spoil kyle dubas's return we're going to get into that but first and foremost breaking news wherever you are watching and listening sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. We're glad you're aboard for the next two hours. Once again, before we get into the Leaf edition of our show, breaking news, the Ottawa Senators have fired head coach DJ Smith. The Senators made the announcement a day after Ottawa lost its fourth straight to Vegas. 6-3 Jacques Martin, who previously served as the Senators head coach,

who joined DJ Smith's staff recently as a senior advisor, consultant, is now taking over the team on an interim basis. It seems he has consulted. His consultation has been received. Also added to the mix, Ottawa Senator's great Daniel Alfredson to the staff. So let's open it up to you, JB, first. Sammy McKee also on board. Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick, we're all glad you're joining us.

No real surprise here. How'd you guys make out on Friday without me before we went? Listen, listen. The day you become more important than this news. Hey. Okay. I was at an establishment and they had it on TV with you two guys. And I was telling her, I'm usually on that show.

I'm usually on that show no i didn't continue jb yes um before we were rudely interrupted by sam's ego um yeah impossible to say surprised right the there had been a building momentum for this the only surprise is that it felt like you know michael and lauer just took over this team and spent a lot of money 950 million u.s dollars i'm not mistaken it felt like if they were going to have some failure of a season he wouldn't want to spend additional money to pay another coach and yeah i was wrong so it seems that they did well did end up pulling the trigger and maybe they don't think it's too late on the year. The talk, guys, the last little while with Anlauer is stability and patience.

And, I mean, it doesn't feel that right now. And I'm not suggesting that he caved to, I guess, social media, public sentiment, whatever you want to say. But they've been calling for DJ's job for a while now out in Ottawa. And I guess maybe the feeling was, how long could he wait? Well, and you also have to weigh, if you're him, the cost of paying two coaches versus how much you're losing the engagement of this fan base.

Who wants this change? Who doesn't feel like the team is well-coached enough? One of my good pals is a Sens fan and listens to Ottawa radio every day and basically was saying that they hadn't been blaming DJ up until very recently. And now

it is pretty much consensus that he had been a big part of the problem. And at that point, if you're Ann Lauer, I think you've got to do something. So, they did something. And now they've brought in sort of a stopgap, right? It doesn't feel like Jacques Martin is going to be the head coach of the Ottawa Senators

in 2024-25. Nor Alfredson. So, it feels like a stopgap. Is he 71 turning 72 or 72 turning 73? And does that play a huge part? It doesn't matter which number. One of those numbers, it doesn't matter. Whatever it is, is it just too far gone

that they find a way to create some magic here and he's comfortable that you would actually keep him? Reunited and it feels so good i gotta say jacques martin behind the bench alfredson it feels like i'm in high school again it's like this is the team i hate on the way out alex swan goes is patrick laleem gonna play goal like i feel or come back and be the coach the goaltending coach i just feel like i get to hate my youthful team i hated the most all over again. They're just back. You know, Lillie.

It's great. I mean, I get that. He's a legend. I get all that. But at this point, with this team. He hasn't been head coach in 11 years. He was recently with the New York Rangers. Yeah.

And there's some that suggested maybe, you know, even being part of the Rangers that it's just maybe time to hear a different voice. I mean, say what you will about 71, you know, like the running joke I have, like everyone, you know, parents and family and all that at 71, and I don't trust all of them to not lose their Netflix password. So maybe John Martin is sharper than some of my extended. But, you know, it's impressive if he is sharp enough.

But it's a big ask after not being a head coach for 11 years. When my parents call me and tell me I can't get the TV on, I cancel the rest of the day. Let me clear my schedule. Let me clear my schedule because we're going to be here a while. We're going to troubleshoot this. Yeah, technology is complicated matters.

So, yeah, I mean, Elberton hasn't coached. How do I get my stuff off the clown? Where's the clown? Can't help you, man. Yeah, so it's, you know, he's obviously an established hockey guy, I'm trying to get my stuff off the clown. Where's the clown? I can't help you, man. Yeah. So it's, you know, he's obviously an established hockey guy, defensive-minded, structured coach.

Hasn't been away from the game that long. Let's be honest. The moment we heard Jacques Martin was coming back, this was. My mom just texted me. Oh, no. He was on the on-deck circle. You think so? Sorry, Mom.

If you're Michael Ann Lauer, think about Jacques Martin now getting that first phone call for him saying, listen, DJ needs some help here, and I need some help here, and you're a stable voice. You've got great history here. Come on in. Isn't my first question is if you if you fire him two weeks from now or a month from now who's who's taking over yeah i think that's that's a relevant

piece of information that's that's that's the way i saw it like he knew he knew there was a chance that this was going to happen. Everybody, except maybe DJ knew, DJ knew too. That's, listen, you got a couple of weeks to straighten this out. And hopefully with Jacques and you guys can get the team going. And, or else you're done and he's taken over. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's kind of a weird situation when you bring in a guy and say, this guy's here to be our consultant and he's clearly there for your job.

Yeah. Sort of an odd arrangement. Like, the question is, like, when Dorian got fired a little bit into the season, right? Yeah. But, like, when you go to take over a team, if you're Ann Lauer, like, don't you, aren't you kind of thinking, do we need a fresh start?

Isn't that one of the early conversations? For sure. Oh, this is Ann Lauer. Aren't you kind of thinking, do we need a fresh start? Isn't that one of the early conversations? For sure. Oh, this is Ann Lauer's worst nightmare, is that you're a rookie owner, and you don't make it to Christmas before you fire two major placeholders in your organization. Well, how about this right i don't know how comfortable or how far you want to go in this but i know you were part of the process like how would you guys have handled this like it seems like it's a weird thing to go well we my group knew that uh

that pierre had multiple years on his deal still and and DJ had one year left, and he was looking for a new contract, and he was sure very disappointed that he didn't have anything beyond this year. So a little choice. Do any of us have, if you're in your last year of your deal, you're in your last year deal, you still have to work. You still want to collect your paycheck. You're not walking away from anything. You're not holding a gun to anyone's head you're just gonna play it out but he was he was looking for sure and you know my my group we had

conversations on short term and long term and i mean how do i yeah phrase this? You know, if I had my way, like Patrick Waugh was going to start behind the bench this year for the Ottawa Senators. Oh, my God. What? I just said if I had my way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you were. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Patrick Waugh would have been the head coach of the Ottawa Senators. Oh, man. That would have been a fascinating combination with all the talent there. Well, that was an interesting piece of information. Yeah. I mean, it is now for them.

It feels like they're going to be shopping for a guy. And Waugh is still available. There's Gallant. There's Berube. Do you think they'll hire someone? I think he's on the bench next game. That's the guy, you think they'll hire someone i think he's he's on the bench next game that's the guy you think who daniel alfredson doing marty saint louis never been in a head coach and yes yeah this is kind of my thought too though if you consider that yes i thought

he might be gm the chain the chain of command right like it's like you bring in jacques martin who's the veteran coach who had him forever knows him well he's the guy that that sits there and is the coach, but you're grooming the next head coach. It kind of makes a ton of sense. For Daniel to go from a spot duty in Sweden and just wave and shake hands and kiss babies. Well, nobody kisses babies anymore. They have to wear a mask and sanitize. That's right. But that's one thing.

For him now to go day to day, like don't go day to day if you don't have any aspirations. Right? Yeah, okay. So I totally see your point. Like, okay, if you're going to be a part of the everyday, you might as well just be the guy. Why not look at Marty St. Louis

and look at the stability that he's brought in and yes i get it they're not ready to win now the montreal canadians but at the end of the day neither were the ottawa senators this year can i tell you something i think the idea of hey famous guy that is beloved in our organization, be the head coach, is disrespectful to the job that head coaches do. I think it assumes someone can just do it because they know hockey really well. I think there's a lot of, you know, how to communicate, how to prepare,

you know, all the different facets that go into coaching, whether it is considering line matchups and zones and all the stuff as it happens. I understand he's going to be the assistant coach that go into coaching, whether it is considering line matchups and zones and all the stuff as it happens. I understand he's going to be the assistant coach with Jacques Martin there, but I just think it's a big ask for a guy. And I know Marty St. Louis has done a fine job for the Montreal Canadiens.

He had been involved, you know, I know at a much lower level, but he had been doing some coaching. Coaching his kids. Yeah, I just... I think this team is ready to win. Hold on, let me finish. The Montreal Canadiens have young people

that were there to be developed, and Marty St. Louis made sense for them. This team's supposed to win. No, I think there's still way more development, for sure, and maturity out of the Ottawa Senators. And I do agree with you. The rebuild's over. Dorian told us.

No, no. What are their fans? No. They told me they get better and more than the Leafs. There's more, and it's up to now and Lauer and Stahels to say, okay, maybe we've got too many of the same, and now we've got to change it. Maybe one major trade, a little bit more experience.

Maybe give up a little bit of the future for the present. That's up to them to find that. But I think they're not there yet. They're not there yet. But I don't disagree with you, JB, in terms of, listen, there's a lot more than just putting a pretty face behind the bench and being a name. And I also think, you know, you don't trade for Claude Giroux

and sign Tarasenko for a team that doesn't think they're competitive or trying to make playoffs now. But you can surround yourself with people, and maybe Jacques Martin can be that guy to help him look for line matchups and groom him towards... Maybe they flip their roles next year and Martin stays around. Or maybe it's Jacques that sticks around for a year and a half

while Daniel Alfredson gets his feet wet. But I don't know. I don't mind. I don't mind it if Daniel wants to really turn himself into a coach. It's scary. It's scary for me, though. Like, you know, with Martin St. Louis,

he never was like a legendary hab. You know, there was already the relationship that Alfredson had with the Sens during the Melnick era. Oh, like what if it goes bad? Yeah. Coaches get fired, you're right. For sure. Like, there is no question that if Delner Alfredson becomes the head coach of the Ottawa Senators, he will at Coaches get fired. You're right. For sure. Like, there is no question that if Delner Albertson

becomes the head coach of the Ottawa Senators, he will at some point be fired. And then you're souring the relationship again with your most legendary player. Ooh, that's a great take. I don't... I don't like the former legend of the team taking over the team.

Like, I've never, like, loved that. So, I... I don't know. It's risky. Like, to me, just being like, hey, Craig Berube, you're the coach now, is way more of a straight line idea than

developing one of your legends to be the head coach. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a big reach. What are they? A dozen points out of a wild card spot? I think they're chasing maybe a Washington Capitals. They're chasing every team.

But what is it to a wild card spot? A dozen points? I'm going to do by points percentage. They are second last. And yeah, in raw points, they're 11 points back. Is that too much to overcome here? Is this about... Check that.

They are 12 points. Is there enough time to get here? Is this about... Check that. They are 12 points. Is there enough time to get them back in the race? No. No. Yeah, what do I know? I had Edmonton almost written off at American Thanksgiving. Not almost. Yeah.

We both said that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no almost involved there, pal. Not just shoveling dirt on the tombstone that's planted. We are going to welcome in Elliot Friedman at the top of the hour, Hockey Night in Canada, 32 Thoughts, to dive more into the Ottawa Senators and their future, short and long term.

And we'll continue that conversation throughout our show. In the meantime... Leafs hour. Leaf edition of our show. Kyle Dubas' return. Not so rosy. You don't look so happy about it. 7-0.

Everything's great. Was a shellacking. Could it have gone any worse if you're Dubas coming back into the building? Could a thing have gone any worse outside of like an injury to Crosby? I said on Saturday night that, you know, Bertuzzi gets three points. Domi gets three points. Gregor scores.

Martin Jones shut out. Like all these guys that living signs goes out there and dominates the team that, you know, it's just, it's a tough one for him. That's a tough night, but a great night for Toronto Maple Leafs and their fans. That is the most complete and thorough beat down since we've had a show together. I think.

Yeah, I, I, I, I was there. I went, I went, yeah,

it was fun. It was fun to be in the building. There was a buzz. The sense was that, that Pittsburgh has not been great lately there building there was a buzz the sense was that that pittsburgh has not been great lately there this was a game me last week on this show saying they stink and malton's washed and just the kyle dubas factor you would have thought and i i don't know i i don't think I can ever recall our general manager putting money on the board.

Oh, this guy did. I'm sure he had some message to his players. Boys, I really want this one. But Kip, further to that, you know, incentivize for the GM or not. That was their dad's trip. They played like that in front of their dads. What a tough night. So, yeah, you were in the building.

They didn't do anything? They didn't put up anything on the board? They didn't? Nothing on the video that I saw or nothing. All you got at the end of the night was the dubest chants from the crowd. One by Felicia clip

they played in the Jumbotron. Which is really strange and I found kind of sad to be honest with you. He became politically polarizing. Yeah, but he was also the general manager for the team for six years.

And they set points records. And they were really good for pretty much his entire tenure. I'm not Mr. Dubas, as you guys know here. But I think they probably should have put up a thing for him, no? Maybe they didn't want to give a chance to boom. Things got personal. It got too bad towards the end. I mean,

you think you guys are paying attention, but things got personal towards the end, but don't you think it's, I think it's a pretty big statement to not do anything. The Islanders gave Tavares a congratulations on their Jumbotron. Like that's clearly upper, upper management.

You know where I'm going with this being like, and we're not doing that. Right. It's ugly. It's just ugly. Yeah. Yeah. So can we have a quick chat about Matthew New nye's looking like the best power forward

in the nhl why i'm joking but i didn't think the attention was strong enough for the gordy how hat trick for matthew nye's has there been one hey i got leaves in years would you like to know who had the last one yes okay hold Okay, hold on. How long ago? 2015. It's on your lineup. 2015. Oh, I don't want to look. Yeah.

It's a crazy name. Yeah, I would never have guessed. Yeah, it's Daniel Winnick. I would never have guessed Daniel. Daniel Winnick is the last Maple Leaf of the Gordie Howe hat trick on February 1st, 2015. How about, I mean, first off, the goal was unbelievable.

Talk about like start on time, whatever. The way he's moving his feet around that corner, backhand shelf, like that was. It was, it was like, we expect that out of Austin Matthews. Yes. Like among the best players in the league, that's an elite goal. And then to stick up for Domi, I mean,

it wasn't like one of those flurry grappling, a glove comes off, he gets a fight, and he fought the guy. He fought a guy who fights a lot, too. He threw the gloves to the ice and was throwing punches, and for not even,

it was kind of nothing. Like, the hit was like nothing. It looked like he wanted to get in a fight. I loved it. I loved it. I thought you might. For so many different reasons. And one of them is because the fan base is starving for that.

Yeah. We have a lot. You know what it is for me? Go ahead. What it is for me is it just shows you that he will. That's all I need. Like, you know, Gregor fought at some point this year. And it's like, okay, there's a point where if things are bad enough, he will.

Whereas, you know, years of watching Willie Nylander at 6'2", 210, like, he's just not going to. They have certain guys who just will not. So nice to have another guy who will. Okay, on that note, let's start. We got lots of fight clips. Let's start our first Kippers Clipper of the Week on the man of the hour saturday night

matthew nyes on his fight uh feels good you know i don't think um you know i'm going to the game looking looking to do that but uh it just happened and um yeah i think domey went down i just didn't really like the play and um yeah i think it I think it was just necessary for me to step up because I just really didn't like how he went down there. What votes have you had in your fighting career? That will be the first one of my career. None in college? Nope.

You've got a cage on, so you can't really get into anything too serious. So, first of all, how old is he? 21. That sounds like a 38-year-old person. He's a big person. Yeah, that does not sound like a 21-year-old man. Actually, he just turned 21 two months ago. I'm watching Saturday Night Steel, a man-child.

Yes. Okay? watching saturday night still a man child yes okay and he's not even scratched the surface i think on on how big and strong he will all all these guys they talk about the leafs trading for and we go you know this guy might be a chip like to me he's like a non-chip like he's you cannot trade this guy he will kill you for no it's a it's an absolute no-fly zone with considering trading him. The second clip to me. Yes, this is the one I'm really interested in hearing on Matthew Nyes and how much he likes to fight.

Just fine, honestly. I kind of like blacked out a little bit. I just wanted to get as much off as I could. It's a cool feeling, I guess, to get that adrenaline rushing. And yeah. So he liked it? More than I do, I can tell you that. Create a bit of a monster, perhaps?

Well, it's interesting you should say that because as someone that's been through this process once you kind of step in that area you've made a bit of a commitment on being that type of guy and everybody's got short memories it's the next one that is going to tell the tale here so how willing will you be in other situations and how will other how will other teams now treat you like whether or not you're going to be that guy who really tries to pick and choose when he wants to go in or when not to go in or what happens when he gets challenged now? Like you can't have to be part of his rep. Do you want, do you want a guy like this doing it once a month or,

you know, sometimes it's just the threat of doing it that can be enough or helpful. Where is that spot, that sweet spot for Matthew Nyes to now turn himself into a power guy who can also look after business if business needs to be taken care of? I think if you just play hockey with no intent of fighting, there are a few times a season where you want to fight like where you just are so mad and it just comes up someone hits a like

it just comes up that's enough for me if those two three times a season he wants to do it that would be great you know you still want the guy to try to score 30 times and get you 80 points and do all that sort of stuff that would be fine i'll ask you to this guys this is something i've noticed in the last two weeks feels like a guy that's like kind of noticing how big and strong he is over the past two weeks like i've seen like a material change in him almost or seen him throwing the body a little bit more seeing him just leaning on guys he gets in a fight i hope he's got a little bit of that mean streak in him. I really do. And I think he can be smart in picking and choosing his spots, but he's going to get challenged a little bit more now moving forward.

You think? And I don't know how he's going to handle that or how he's going to want to handle that. It's not even close to how it was in my era no but it's still out there as little as there is out there you don't want to be also a guy who you know is constantly turning down right yeah to the point where yeah you know there's i'm just saying that there's a fine line but i'm looking for the model of who we're talking about here for like the type of guy that exists in the league whose role is to contribute offensively play top six yeah but also do that and tom wilson

is where everyone's head goes gold standard but he's like a 50 point guy isn't he like that's like a ceiling type year for him you know maybe brady kachuk sure i mean brady can't fight like brady he cannot he can't or maybe he can and he doesn't know it yet yeah brady's off his rocker in a good way i love brady we all love him on the show i don't think nize's wires cross like brady's cross no but like so okay brady kachuk's a good example of someone who you'd say, okay, can you score 30 plus whatever and also be that guy? I mean, they're unicorns. Like, maybe Matthew Kachuk's a better example for him.

I actually think that's more accurate. How many times did Matthew Kachuk fight a year? I don't know. Twice? But he gets 100 points? Did he fight four times last year? I can look that up for you. Five times? But that's the type of thing. They're so

rare. They exist in the Kachuk family and nowhere else. For me, it's just the threat sometimes of just knowing that someone will be willing to cross that line. The Leafs have not had that, At least from their

position up front. They've always tried to get Matt Martin or Clifford or now Ryan Reeves, but can you get someone on the ice in a power top six

to play that type of game? Which is why I say he's so untradeable for me, given what the Leafs have lacked and given what a, you know, unique player he could be for them. We have lots of clips on this. Absolutely loved it. Kachuk has fought twice so far this year. No, how about last year, though?

I'm looking up here in 22, three, four times. That's kind of what we're looking at as a resistance hops for nice raffle klingberg yeah he's not fighting reeves uh marchman he doesn't he doesn't fight a ton yeah but just here and there hopefully that's what nize is like too do you want to hear his teammates and keith talking about him what yeah let's go to keith on do you want to hear on on his game or on the fight fighting who cares about his game what does nice nice fighting tell you i think just just this commitment to the group you know quite honestly i i didn't see exactly initially what was going on down in the corner there so i didn't know exactly how it started but just to to see how, you know, in his first ever fight comes not for anything to do with him.

It's just he didn't like what was going on with Max, and he steps in and then leads to the fight, and he's right there and stands his ground. It's part of the game. Yeah, I think he's a big, strong, physical guy that I think has the ability to really assert himself in more ways than just what we saw um in that in that fight and that skirmish but you see the goal that he scored just just get us started in the game that's to me that's the complete package that he has the ability to

to uh to grow into um in terms of being a physical force. And I think that's really where, you know, sort of the next phase of his development is. There you go. That's what we were talking about. Nah, Domi lost another tooth on that play. Did he have any left? He's going to be able to eat Mentos with his jaw clamped shut. Just slide him in. He's got nothing left up there.

That did feel like it was a total team effort like i listen the leafs have been on a hot run but there's there hasn't been that too many games there hasn't been too many wins this year that it's felt like it was 1 to 20 in the lineup compared to like yeah four guys for their top guys carrying them again i mean max domey that was his best game as the toronto maple leaf i love the back check on marner's goal like he catches a guy from behind lifts his stick turns it over for robinson is robertson who sauces one in for marner that to me from domey like tracking working back defensively that's the stuff where he's going to take criticism and obviously he

did all the other stuff the goal he scored was also you know pièce de résistance beautiful type stuff i said that that's the nicest goal elisa scored all year from the matt from the martin jones sauce to the through the legs pass from marner the kick up from nize to the pump fake finish it was like oh my god that was a full team effort. The Leafs. We should be ashamed. Yeah, they were so bad. The Leafs record since 2016 without Austin Matthews in the lineup

is kind of mind-boggling. 34-19-3. Yeah. Well, they have a lot of good players. Well, and that's, you know, a little bit worse than their record over the years, right? Like, they've been a good team for years now. There was a buzz when it was announced or when everybody found out that no Austin, no TJ Brody Saturday night. And it was like, uh-oh.

But I wonder if we saw a lineup really nervous and scared that this game could get away from them because they don't have Austin in it. I think that's relevant. I think. The no passengers thing. No passengers, but hey, no one has to go and replace 34. Just play a sound game at both ends of the ice and we'll be fine. They do look different.

I know it's Austin Matthews fine yeah they do look different like i know it's awesome matthews duh they look different but they do feel like a very different type of team when he doesn't play like it's a very i don't know how to explain it i guess everybody just kind of elevates a bit like i think marner here i had it somewhere he has 63 points in 54 games though matt you summed it best earlier in the year where sometimes you just watch them win or lose it feels like team a and a team b and there was no team a or team b saturday night yeah no you had every guy pulling in the same direction the leafs now remember last year we talked there's a point this year where i think you were saying you know the year before they got really hot in november and i don't know they're going to be able to go in one of those runs in

the last 15 games the leafs are 10 1 and 4 yeah you know they're going to be able to go in one of those runs. In the last 15 games, at least, are 10-1-4. Yeah. You know, like the numbers, underlying stuff, aren't as good over that time, but they're just finding ways and that was their most complete victory minus a lot of good players. They do have a different feel about them. I don't, like, I think

they aren't quite as good clearly defensively. Yeah. But they do have like a sort of it's hard to quantify. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe you guys can feel it better, but maybe they're better offensively. They score more. It's just the different types of guys they've had in the past years in the bottom six,

but they just feel different to me. And I don't know how to quantify it. What about you? Okay. Let's take a quick break here and we'll get into that after the break, including tomorrow night. New York Rangers in town. Who's in that, boys? We'll answer that after the break. More real Kipper and Bourne.

Don't go away. Fresh views on everything in the National Football League. It's the Fan Checkdown with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Talking Leafs, shellacking, Pittsburgh Penguins. And now they're getting ready to face the New York Rangers, another team that maybe has a long memory on their last game

in Madison Square Garden where it kind of felt a little bit like Saturday night where the Leafs completely took over the game. And I think that was the night they showed all the dads doing the dance. Oh, they were having a good time. They were having a really good time. Papa Poppy was having a good time. Shots. So it's funny because the next week they play two teams that they just played.

Right? So they play tomorrow against the Rangers and then Saturday against Columbus. Actually, they play Columbus twice more before the new year. And so Keith actually got asked about that, about playing it, and he kind of gave an interesting answer on playing the same teams. I don't know if you want to hear that. Clip eight? Go.

Yeah, I think it's good. I like that. I mean, you used to get that a ton in the American League. It was back-to-back in the same weekend. Or you see them again the next week and you see them with such regularity i think it adds a little extra to it the preparation is that much easier which is a nice thing to have in the nhl you know when you've got 31 teams to prepare for um to have it where it's a little bit shorter turnaround to get prepped and then you've got

some adjustments to make from what you did the previous time out. So there were some things we talked about here today that we felt we didn't do very well when we were in New York. And it gives us time to make those adjustments and be that much more ready tomorrow. Yeah, they're going to have to be ready because the Rangers will come out a lot harder. Good Lord, yeah. By the way, as a video coach, what a delight to replay the same team. You just point to your old work and go, uh-huh, you like? So basketball changed to doing it like the baseball style where you play,

you like go to a city and play the same team twice or you'll go to their city and play. I'd love them to do that in hockey. It just feels like in hockey, it's just people, they get pissed and it adds to it. I just basically want to see more anger in hockey. So if you're playing the same team two nights in a row three day weekend it just bang them out that's a game i do think though that there is a real problem there how you're a very different team at different points of the season right like a post-trade deadline or before with you know suddenly

matthews is hurt and you have to play boston three times in a row or you know whatever it's like well sure and they're better without math people do say oh my god people do say um you know that sort of thing would even out over time or whatever but i i like the idea that you spread it out okay all right where do you want to go depth defense or goaltending on some of our clips goalies we gotta go goalies okay yeah we've do you do? We've got 40 minutes here. We haven't talked about the goalies. Who's starting tomorrow night against the New York Rangers?

Ilya Samsonov should start. Yeah, I got Martin Jones starting. I can't put him back in the net right now, buddy. What are we working towards here? There's some really ugly goals against Columbus. You are the exact guy who tells me that the regular season doesn't matter.

They're going to get their points. Why are we grinding? You think Jones is going to be this much better than them? He's excluded from that conversation. Martin Jones is? No, Samsonov is excluded from the, you know, why they're going to get their points. They're going to make this.

Like you got to ask yourself how much time is it going to take me to get this guy where I need him to be. And you got to find out because you're running out of it. I know he's got to play. You got to figure out if you can do it or not. If you can't do it, then wave bye-bye. It doesn't mean also throwing him back into the pit. It means good practices.

It means getting himself into a good, healthy mindset. Which, his biggest challenge, he's an athletic, talented goalie. His battle is between the ears. Not this again. Old Martin, old Campbell. Yeah, and they're giving him ample time. They've given him half a season. They've given him 13 games.

13 games over two and a half months, two months and change. You know, my thought on this, you zoom out. Okay, what happens if the guy plays good or bad? What happens if this guy plays good or bad? Okay. Martin Jones plays good. Was he your goalie now?

Is that your content with Martin Jones? You're going to trade Sam Stubbs, he's going to be your backup? Okay. Let's listen to the coach talk about Martin Jones, and then you can reframe what you say about Martin Jones. Let's have it. Okay. He was so calm and relaxed in there tonight. I mean, you know, on a night like this tonight,

score being what it is, and, you know, it's one of these nights where almost everything is going your way offensively. Talked about this the other night. Like, you're down 5-0 the other night. To me, it's not as bad as the scoreboard shows there's still good things happening and when you're up big like we were tonight it's not as good necessarily as the scoreboard shows there's still lots of stuff coming

our way at our net and goaltender has to be really sharp otherwise the game can start to change a little bit momentum is changing he didn't allow that to happen he was just so calm and and relaxed in there and that just made everybody else just start to feel that much better about themselves and their game. Calm. To me, that's what he keeps talking about. And it's like, I think...

And it's uncalm with Samsonov. You guys are trying to win the game Saturday. I'm trying to win the cup. Yeah, but you're not going to win the cup with Samsonov anyway. Sorry, I'm talking about Tuesday, whatever. You're going to win the cup. It's about banking're not going to win the cup with Sam. Sorry, I'm talking about Tuesday. Whatever. You're going to win the cup. It's about banking as many points as you can bank until Joe Wall's healthy. This is a massive swing then in what this show has set as a precedent and a priority for this goaltending tandem.

You know, like if it's now we're grinding out points and hanging on for Joe Wall, we have completely changed what this season was. Yeah, I'm broken. Which was like a 50-game Samsonov, 30-game wall to start the year. I'm broken. Now he's gone. Broken. I think that's a distant memory right now.

You are. Okay. You are. I'm content with that explanation. I am not. If it's over, it's over. I'm not. No, but I'm not there yet.

I'm not necessarily kicking him to the curb. I'm not i'm not necessarily kicking them to the curb i'm not writing them off but it's it's changed now in terms of what your game plan is between today and moving forward and how much of a how long how long are you willing to wait like right up until the trade deadline with samson off yeah no i want to know sooner, a lot sooner. See, I do too. Doesn't mean necessarily he starts against the New York Rangers, but, you know, there needs to be a line that needs to be drawn,

and if he doesn't hit it, then sorry, but time for a different direction. Do you envision Martin Jones playing 50% of the games moving forward? Walls not available? Like you want to switch them out? One in, one out? No, I don't think so. I mean, Martin Jones, to me, is here to be the third string guy to come in and serve capably in a game where your team dominates like they did against pittsburgh it was perfect you know he he racked up wins for seattle he got a lot of wins

but his numbers weren't that pretty you know like he actually they weren't even good at all which is why he's in the american league. I just, watching him play, I can get why a coach would just keep putting him in there. Right? Like the way he looks in there versus what Samsonov looks like. Like, yeah, you're probably going to let in three goals or four. Like, it's not going to be necessarily the numbers. He's just so calm.

That's what it is. Sheldon, he was so calm. One game without calm yeah right i want calm all the time this reminds me of the conversation of a guy like nick robertson or pick your young guy that you're developing and should he play 15 16 17 18 minutes to develop even if he's not playing well you give him the opportunity to work through it and whatever which is kind of the samsonov guy here or you know do you think they should have to figure it out and wait for their opportunity and whatever else i guess it depends where you sit on

that sort of stuff i don't know what samsonov is going to do maybe in practice have a great day and show you k he's ready now buffalo later this week columbus saturday opportunity to get a win and get him feeling good i you know you can tell me on that say you're afraid of a i'm not there watching practices but somebody is like look good create good energy i will say the things i read about him in practice and excuse me for forgetting who is tweeting this but um you know like hanging his head between shots and like really trying to pump himself up and just struggling so yeah i know but that to me means like okay if we can't use them we can't use them let's figure

it out sooner than later and anyway like we talk about the true living off season this is the smartest part of the true living offseason not giving samson off three by five like forget everything else like talk about the homey bertuzzi whatever positive thing you want to say i mean there's the negative parts too but not giving him multiple years is looking like an absolute stroke of genius well unless you think that's the reason why his psyche was fragile to start you can have that too the other thing that uh someone mentioned to me saturday night at the game was how hard

uh arbitration was on him yeah i had a couple people tell me that too okay we've all been there you know they tell us we stink we don't deserve this we don't deserve that great but once it's over it's over and it's just business yeah but some are saying that it it really bothered him it affected him because he thought he could maybe end up with a a decent long-term deal off of it. And I don't know. I'm just speculating here. But you got to file that away. You got to tuck it in a cupboard and just play now. Just play. Stop a puck.

But you're. Yeah, just move on. You're right, though. And just to your point, you think about what it cost him like if he has a multi-year contract it's one thing he got the money but now there's all this pressure on him and it's going sideways well yeah and what's it look like now next offseason yeah i don't know you're you know struggling you're a pto Like you're looking at seven 50 here. Okay. You can't think like you Sammy right now.

If you're him, just, you know, you're playing practice, have a good practice and build off of it. You got to plant a seed and you gotta, you gotta, you gotta grow because right now you're not, you're not growing right now.

And you can't even think about next year. Think about your practice today and think about possibly starting against Buffalo and do not think about anything else. You are not allowed. You're not allowed. Yeah, I like that. That's the coaching he needs. But I'm sure, I mean, that's probably not going to work.

No. Can't just tell someone. Don't worry has never once worked as a piece of advice. If he's this phased by it, he's thinking about it. And yeah, I don't think, I think he goes Jones tomorrow against the Rangers, Sammy Thursday, and then are you putting Samsonov back in there to place a team that just put five or six on him?

Yes. To me, it's just like Sammy. For revenge. It's Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, then Merry Christmas. If he didn't play well in those games, we'll find someone else. Wow. I don't know. Play the man.

He's a goalie. He's not a Fabergé egg. Put him in the net. I disagree. Clearly. I just, I watched that. I mean, I didn't have a chance to come in here and talk about the craziest Leafs game of the year after on the Thursday. But he was brutal in that game.

Like, there's four goals that went in there. It's just like, those should not go in. The one that went through his shoulder. Should not go in. Yeah. And it's just like, he hasn't, it's a big enough sample size here now where you're like, okay. It's bad.

It's really bad. I just hate, all you can do is slag on him, but it's just at some point here, it's the NHL. Yep. Need some saves. Are we okay? The lily pad is back 20 minutes yeah mccabe seems a little bit more comfortable these days cape is blossoming right yeah i mean i i love this guy he looks like the guy they hoped he would be last year

and never really found it that 15 game run where they where they're 10-1-4 that I told you about, that started with McCabe's return. Really? Coincidence, maybe, yeah. I think it's been clearly the best stretch of his Leafs career, and I can't imagine him having many better stretches in his career than he's had right now. I would say this is it.

What did you make of, I think, Mitch Marner had, I don't know, a minute in the third period. Oh, didn't play much he got he got completely shut down i think yeah i think the uh i saw the power plays they're rolling out like rager got a goal a power play yeah but like honestly i don't think he had more than a minute yeah in the third period love it love it you we've lied on the show a million times i know i know but too much ice like uh but you kept playing neil ander and tavaris don't you want to shut those guys down too i don't know those guys play 19 minutes someone's 25 someone needs to play and i think for mitch a guy that plays why he's playing 10 minutes in the third period against columbus which we all

said was ridiculous it is game dependent you know like it's not personal you know i think it's just how do we utilize this i don't know though i mean i'm not sure i would have liked to been completely sitting there without anything yeah i bet he hated it he could have had yeah i bet he hated it but that's you know you know. He played 15-36. When's the last time he played 15-36? And they were all in the first two periods. Imagine Mitch Marner goes out there, up 6-0, gets hurt, and we turn his microphone on the next day. Oh, my God.

What about Willie getting hurt? We'd be saying the same thing. What's he doing out there? I don't know. I don't think Mitch is the same class as Willie. Do you? Do you think they should be paid the same? But he's going to make more than Marner.

He's going to get Marner's next contract. Yeah, I know, but he's going to pass Marner. Is that still how you... Nylander's last five games, two points, two points, two points, two points. So he is. He's just as valuable now. But it's not hot. It's not

football. According to them. I'm watching the bills cowboys yesterday and back press got still in the game they're up the bills are up 34 to 3 i'm like that's stupid yeah like it's like you can clearly just there's another guy that can go in there and play yeah when you i'm you know like you should take it as a compliment to marner that the coach felt that he's so important i'm fine. I'm fine with him backing off. I'm fine with backing him off. I just don't know if I... You might as well just tell him to go take a shower

if you're not going to play me. Yeah, get an early jump on the night. Just beat Dubas' penguins. Saturday night. See you later. No, I couldn't care less about that. Sorry, Kip. Do we want to hear about what worked for the defense? For the Leafs? No?

None of that sort of stuff? Bobby McMahon, no one what worked for the defense? For the Leafs? No? None of that sort of stuff? Bobby McMahon, no one's excited for my boy? Team McMahon over here? Let's give Bobby McMahon a little love from the coach. How's that sound? How about my boy Holmberg making an appearance again? Pontus in the mix.

He's back. Look pretty good. Team wins. They're going to have to trade somebody. Holmberg, Robertson. Robertson, nice pass. They got to move somebody. Somebody, it's something and one of those guys. Or it's those guys in a, I don't know, a draft pick.

Yeah. But it's, somebody's. They need to boost some values here. Okay, quick McMahon. Oh, no, where are we? We're too late. We missed it. No, I just, I thought it was an awesome reaction for him.

He was really excited. He's a 27-year-old guy. He's in the minors. Get your first NHL goal. We're going to play tomorrow. And that big, great Sally, he was fired up. Good pass by Bertuzzi, too. Had a good game.

Bertuzzi, yeah, three points. All right. No guests to thank today. Just the three of us. Thank you. We do have another hour. How was your, now, I was just. We the three of us. Oh, thank you. We do have another hour. How was your, now, I was just. We lost 8-2.

I was joking around. You were very valuable. You're newsworthy. Good. We lost. And we were fine without you, by the way. We were fine without you. By the way, we're doing we?

Bodo and Sam? Yeah. Yeah, I do we. We lost 8-2. I saw our boy Jason Bukla. Had a beer with him. Nice. Beauty.

Okay, we're not going away. We go national next. Elliott Friedman firing in Ottawa when we return.