Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Deep Dive on the D-Corps

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' rematch against the Bruins in Boston. They discuss the importance of the game after a rough weekend, Craig Berube's demeanour behind the bench, the defensive depth, Auston Matthews and William Nylander splitting up in the top six, and whether the Leafs will seek retribution on Nikita Zadorov after his hit on Scott Laughton on Saturday. Later, NESN Bruins analyst Billy Jaffe stops by (34:26) to share a Boston perspective of tonight's matchup, what's behind their recent surge, how much credit goes to Marco Sturm early on, and Fraser Minten's maturity.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

On a day, we honor those who gave everything to protect our peace and freedom. Welcome on this Remembrance Day to the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Nick Kippreos, Justin Borence, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandale, leaf hour edition of our program. We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the 590, the fifth. fan in Toronto and streaming always on Sportsnet. Plus, if you don't catch us live, there's always Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube as well. The Toronto Maple Leafs game day is they take on the Boston Bruins at the TD Garden.

Billy Jaffe, who had the pleasure of working a few times on Sportsnet over the last few years. Analyst now for Nesson, NHL Network. He'll join us in about half an hour to give us our. inside look into the Boston Bruins on a place in the standings today that we didn't really anticipate, albeit still fairly early, but the Bruins don't suck as much as we thought they would.

Compared to the Leafs, they're doing pretty good. Which brings us to your Toronto Maple Leafs. A phrase or statement of must win often gets played out a little bit too much these days. So what would be underneath must win, in your opinion? Can't lose. Really need to win.

How about it would be nice? It would be really nice. It would be really nice if the leaves could go into a place that has not been kind to them over the years. Prefer to win tonight. And provide a solid 60 minute effort. Yes. And to win. 60s ambitious, you know, but I'll take a higher number than 22 or whatever we've been getting lately.

I think this is great that they're playing the Bruins again. I think you just had a look at them in your building. There should be some embarrassment or disappointment about the way it went the first time. I also love that they're playing hockey again because, boy, did they leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth over the weekend. So another chance to get it right today. Okay, I won't say it's a must win. How important is this game for this hockey club at this point of the season? I think it's a big game.

I do. Like, I really, I don't know what you guys in terms of the tone of people talking to about this team is. But, you know, I'm getting some Windows closed DMs. I'm getting some rebuild the team DMs. Like, I'm getting, like, this team closer to a rebuild than they are to a contender mentions in my, on X and on Instagram and on social media where everybody can access me. I think there's a lot of doubt that this team's going to turn it around. I really do think that people are starting to believe that this is what they are.

And a nice win tonight in Boston can kind of stave off the wolves for a little bit here to get some people off their backs. But it feels like a big game. Yeah. You know, it's funny because I'm doing the Oilers game tomorrow night. So paying a little bit of attention to them last night. And that was last night for the Edmonton Oilers. It was kind of like must win.

People were saying, and they had their captain and their superstar grab that game and say, we're not losing. They got lucky, but they got a big night out of Connor McDavid last night. I ended up going to the Hall of Fame. Congratulations to all the inductees. Didn't get a chance to watch it. Did Gary call Jumbo Dumbo by accident? Yes, he did.

And people are having a lot of fun with it on the Internet, social media. Anyway, sorry. Just order to make sure I saw that. Yeah. But if, not to say that I watched the whole game completely, but you can watch enough of the highlights and then parts of it as well to understand that there's nothing really convincing about the Stanley Cup finalists

needing a lucky bounce to pull off a regulation point and then another one in overtime. So would you even take that for the Leafs tonight that they could look like they're doing whatever they can to just mustard something, salvage something? I think you're trying to sort out your problems and the more you win, the more time you have to solve those problems, right? Before it goes right off the rails.

So, yeah, I mean, I would take it. It would be less than preferred. Obviously, you'd like to see a more complete effort. But it's funny to think the rebuild talk that Sammy's bringing up. I've had people say that to me too. Can you get a ton? You know, but you look around the league and, you know, you're always a couple guys away from completely changing the energy

and, you know, we've seen it in different places around the NHL. But also, it's the first time where you have people going. Yeah. You know, the numbers aren't as good. Like, what if you just sold off these three or four pieces of the deadline, added picks in the next year used them? And you're going, yeah, maybe they would be better if they did that. but I'm just saying like we need to see that there's something other than what they've shown so far

you mentioned like how it happens and what it looks like and the oilers or whatever but I do think we're getting to the point of the year where style points you know they matter because it's it's over a long season and you want them to look good for you know for long stretches but they need to accumulate points here like by points percentage right now there's three three teams between them and the final playoff spot in the Eastern Conference. Like we're getting close to American Thanksgiving here. It isn't a tiny sample size

anymore. Their next their next three games are Boston, L.A. on Thursday we'll be doing that game for SportsNet Justin and I. And then Saturday night against Chicago. And you have to put way more stock in value

against a team like Boston in your own division. It's the difference of four points between Toronto and Boston and albeit again it's still early and it's a very small distance right in the grand scheme of things

but to Sam's point you don't want to get you don't want to let this get away here even if they were to lose against Boston and then beat L.A. and Chicago the Boston lost tonight potentially would sting

way more. Yeah. Way more. Well and look around their division. They haven't played Florida or Tampa, I don't think, once. But they have played Detroit twice. Remember what happened? Lost both. Lost both. They played Buffalo twice. Lost one point out of that and gave Buffalo three. Did they lose a second one in overtime?

Yeah. And they beat Montreal opening night in their division where a lot of people said they didn't out play Montreal and Montreal deserve to win. Right. So, you know, the divisional games, you can't lose back to back. lose you lost to Boston like you got to start beating some teams in your division at some point if you want to be not just at the top of the division but in the playoffs so yeah the must win things interesting there's a lot of eyeballs on this hockey game a lot of talk yesterday including on our show yesterday on Craig brewby and what he needs to do to maybe get going or get the team

going let's get his thoughts on how he resets the group tonight at the TD Garden in Boston Yeah, we got together last, we got in yesterday and had a good team meeting in Boston here. So, you know, just look at some film and talk, try to, you know, get it going in the right direction here again. What do you stress at a time, like this, especially on the defensive side? Like, what are the key themes for you? Okay, good meeting? Sorry, I forgot to cut the last step, the part of that off. I will say that

outwardly to the media it really doesn't he does a good job of not seeming desperate desperate at all okay like until he's actually behind the bench that's what I mean it's two it's two very different

messages where nothing seems to be urgent when he's talking to the media or talking to I guess the fans through the media and then when he gets behind the bench he's red face rant and raven can i tell you that though like it's got to stop what the behind the bench stuff yes it's it's enough he's got to show way more composure and it's okay a little bit but it's getting now to the point where you got to find a different way to reach them other than that way it's it's the players

need something of guidance and just screaming and hollering and the red face Sammy what you just mentioned you got to go beyond that now what's really hard is when your team is playing really bad

you know like winning buys you time I just said earlier in the show and I think when you're winning you can go I'm not going to comment on every single thing we do wrong on the bench some of it will address in the meeting tomorrow some of it will just see if they sort it out They're losing, though, and it's these dumb, boneheaded, out of position, cheating stuff. Every time they come back to the bench, it has to be hard not to be like, hey, we've talked

about this. You're a pro. It has to be really hard, kept to bite your tongue. All the coaches, the coaches know how many cameras they are. They know where the cameras are. And if he's showing that on the bench, just times it by 10 in the dressing room. So, you cannot, you got to make sure that the players just don't get tired of it or tune it out because it's, it's just coming at them way too often.

And I don't know per se what goes on behind the scenes, but I can only imagine as an ex-player. But they need something much more deeper than just guys try harder. Yeah, totally, totally agree with that. But I don't know. Would you expect a different look, a different looking breakout? Do you expect to see the guys? Like, to me, that would be a sign of we're trying something more than just trying to browbeat these guys into a win.

I mean, you want to expect something different and run out the exact same decor as the weekend. Like, you're not going to get anything different. What do you think of that? There's an old saying about, you know, the definition of insanity. You know, there's... Where would you like him to go then? I don't know.

I'm just saying like if you want it to be different I don't think it's going to be different. I think the case that I've heard made is like how do you go back to Philip Myers who really was not he was terrible. Well he just doesn't look like an NHL defenseman right now. So it's like does Dakota Murmiss make a difference?

Probably not, right? Does he make them 1% worse or better? Maybe it doesn't matter. But I think the point is just you want to show the guys that play bad and you don't play. Maybe this would have been the time. We do have a clip on that.

Oh. Clip number six. Steven, please, Derek from Ruby today. I talked to Brad about, you know, call-ups and things like that. It's like, you know, we're at where we're at right now, and we have Mirmus here on defense, you know, but putting Mirmus in there, to me, it just, it's, we don't have the, we don't have a righty-lefty on all, on the three pairs as it is,

and that's going to make it even worse. You're putting somebody on the right side that's, you know, We got McCabe there now, which is new for him. He played the left side of the whole last year. And OEL's played the right at times, left at times. But it just, I think it creates a little bit of a problem. I mean, McCabe played the right side the whole year before that. So he has done it.

And OEL played the right side for a whole season two, so they can do it. He might as well just come out and say, we don't have the depth. That was essentially what he did there. He's like, I mean, I talked to Brad. Yeah, there's no help. Yeah. There's no help down there. And, you know, there is something to showing a guy like Philippe Myers.

Like, hey, we trust that you're our best bet to figure this out. Here's another opportunity. Go ahead and seize it or you'll be seizing HL money soon. So I saw this today on X from at Mick Mazz on Twitter. And this is from Brad for Living on May 29. So that would have been right after they went out of the playoffs, right, around that time. I like the length of our defense. I like the makeup of our defense, but you still have to get up and down the ice.

part of how we play lends itself to giving up some volume we need to get more offense from our defense not just gold we can get more volume the other way in terms of personnel we'll see i like the decor but we can't be rigid we fell short we have to continue to look at ways so we can get better so over to that yeah you know i do watch this team and watch this decor and i watch other teams that have you know puck moving defensemen that snap it up and are young and are flying around kipper's been on this for how however many years. This don't really break the pocket. Well, at the same time, I don't think Kipper loved when we had Timothy Lilligrid on the third pair or even Rasmus Sandeen. Who's pretty good player.

Doing pretty good. He's playing pretty well. It's tough to find, right? I mean, it's tough to find. But it's just interesting to read that quote today where he understood some of the flaws with the team in terms of the defense and not getting any offense

and not being able to move the puck up and down the ice and then running back the exact same DECOR and expecting different results with it. It's funny there's almost like this thing with all right, we have to prove that our Deacon's score more and Morgan Riley, let's see, have 10 points already in 16 games and OEL is up there too. I mean, we can look up that exactly,

but like, you know, they're getting that a little bit more production, but it's come at the cost of... Coming at a cost. 13 points and 15 games for Riley. 13 and I think 10 for OEL? Mass minus four for... Like they're, they're not separate. There's not okay.

There's, it's not football where you just focus on defense with your defense. And then the offense, it's all about just points. Yeah. You, you drive solid offense through being defensively sound first for me. It has to start in your own zone and then you go on. It's not like, oh, hoping and praying that you get a lucky bounce or, I've had an issue with the team for a few years, and Willie would be the biggest at the top of my list

where it's just you cheat for offense, right? And he's good at it, and he manages to get his points. But, you know, in the long run, over the course of 82 games, over the course of trying to win four rounds in the Stanley Cup playoffs, when every team's buttoned down, can you still win that way?

You can have one guy like that. on a team that's full of really good players but yes but you have to your room has to be strong enough and your lineup has to be strong enough where it everybody kind of knows their spot and I can't cheat like Willie right

and I know that and I accept that but I don't think that's what's going on here I don't I think I think there's portions of teams that I've seen over the last few years where it's like you know I just got to get my points I got to get my cookies I got to

And it's tough. It's tough when it's not a good balance. It's tough when it's not in sync with 20 guys, 22 guys, if you're plugging guys in and out and they know their rules completely. And right now I think guys are coming in still and thinking, you know, I got to get my offense, whether it's Nick Waugh or Dakota.

Like, you know, we've pumped them up. Everybody's sitting there going, yeah, they can score 20. Oh, yeah, they can get 20 this year. and now you're one goal in 12 games or 2 and 14 you're like and you're doing the math and it's like I got to get going I got to get my offense going it's like no you got to get the puck out of your own zone but what you just said there leans more into why william neelander is cheating for offense it's like if matthews marr or matthews

some you know PTSD there if matthews nyes kneelander and tavaris aren't producing i know nobody is so like there's one thing to have have William Neelander be more accountable defensively, which we've asked for for 10 years and never happened. You want that. But at the same time, that takes away his greatest strength,

which is offense, which without his offense, this team would be going nowhere, and it may be going nowhere anyway. But I just, like, when you have nothing from your bottom six. There's a middle ground there, Sammy. It's not one or the other.

There isn't. And I get it. He's so talented. And I want him to. How do we end up talking about it? We're talking about the defense is fine, but the defense is not. And I'm like, well, ultimately, maybe you've got to cut back a little bit on the offense. And just try to win a game to one.

I don't know. I mean, just try. That's the way it is usually in the playoffs anyways. Yeah. Aside from making this about Willie, which I don't agree with. I agree with the general idea. I'm just saying he's not the only one that cheats here. I would say.

Machelli cheats. He's not making great decisions in his own zone because he's still thinking about offense. I think that the players have to have a real trust that the coaches and management are seeing the process part if the results aren't there. Like if a player's played really well and not getting points, is the staff still going,

this guy deserves more, he's playing great, whatever, or do they wait and they say, oh, Nick Robertson has four points in five games keep them on the top line because of the point. I think the players feel like they need the points to be taken seriously a little bit and I agree with you that there's a lot of guys for whom it's a priority

and that's definitely something to be addressed. Let's get Craig Brewy's thoughts on the defensive issues that he has to deal with right now. Well, I think that defensively we put ourselves in some tough spots with the turnovers. You know, it's just, you know,

it's just really put stress on everybody with the turnover. our puck management wasn't very good the last two games, mostly the last game, but and then defensively for me, it's the turnover for sure, but, you know, we can

just be firmer and harder in our own zone and winning more of those battles. I mean, I thought Carolina came out with the puck too much, you know. We had numbers in there and ended up they come out with the puck, and now we're extended in our zone a little bit more and yeah,

turnovers will cost the game, in my opinion. yeah i agree the turnovers have been a big problem for them turnover scoring chances they're getting killed um i i don't think puck battles are a problem they by the numbers they won the puck battle game last game but what yeah i i didn't get a sense of that yeah i didn't see it either but this the number said that's um fascinating yeah i'm actually dubious of the recording of puck i was just gonna say like i'm gonna disagree with that yeah however the turnover thing seems is very real and does check out. I honest to God, I'd go into that room right now

and I just tell them I don't care about the offense right now. I just need. Show me you can play within the structure. The game's changed in so many ways, but the best defense is you between the puck and your own net. And how easy is that to do? Just please tell me. So easy.

You can stand and be in the right place. Right. Okay, just stand. Yeah. Obviously, we want you moving, but let's start there. Yeah. And then once it gets out, then, you know, Willie, go do your thing. You get to go play when it goes that way.

Go, go have fine. Go knock your songs. I'm Craig Bruy. I've got 3,000 penalty minutes and like seven career goals. I'm not telling you how to score and not to score. Right. But please tell me in our own zone that we can sit there and say, we're not

leaving until the puck's out together. Did we play how the forwards can help defensively? The fourth clip there? Did we play it? I don't think we did. Let's have a listen to that. What can the forwards do to help the D defensively more than they have?

Don't turn pucks over? I think, yeah, I mean, I think the forwards are, it's not just on the forwards or just on the D, it's on everybody. I mean, for me, the forwards, getting caught in the offensive zone three guys

and giving up odd man rushes is not good for our D or our goalies. You know, that's one area that we can be better at for sure. We've been talking about it a lot of the year. You know, we've got to get back to where we're not giving up odd man rushes for sure. You know, and for me in the zone, it's the same as the D. It's about killing plays. Being firmer and harder, blocking shots, you know, exiting when you get the puck back, you know, not turning it over. So now we're extending their own zone.

It's, you know, wall play for forwards. Simple, direct, hard. Yeah. You know, but, like, it's right, you know. I know. It's like, do those things and you'll be better. I don't know. The turnover thing is probably holds the most water, but they've talked to us.

is still like no one on that blue line left for $12 million as a free agent. So this was the same team that we watched on the blue line that were extremely hard in their own zone. Blocking shots and how hard was it to get a quality, high danger puck to the net last year. And that was part of our narrative of it looks different. So you go from top 10 to worst in the league now? Why? They're missing their best defense for six half. Listen, it was an issue when TANF was in the lineup early.

Sure. It didn't look all that better. And I'm not taking away anything. And Tannab's great. And we know that. And he should come back when he's healthy and help. but collectively it was right out of the gate, Sam, not since Tana of his left.

Yeah, no. I'm just saying that half the games that they haven't had them. It's a contributing factor. He'll help. He'll help a bit. I was just trying to look this up when we were talking in terms of ozone touches,

the percentage of successful touches. The Leafs are 30th out of 32 teams. So lots of bad touches, failed touches. Okay, that's enough defensively. Matthews and Nylander splitting up yeah I've been talking quite a bit about Matthews lately

I don't know if you saw the thing I wrote yesterday but it spurred some conversation for sure about where he's at physically not about injury just physically not being the same powerhouse so pretty good line he's got playing with Nize and Robertson but not going to give him Willie

for a game. You like it? Yes I do because they need something. This is what the coach is supposed to do. He's supposed to give them different looks. He's supposed to give them different strategies. Doing nothing

isn't an answer for Craig Bruby, so I have no problem him starting there. Why don't we listen to Craig on splitting them up. What can the forwards do to help the defense on? Good three. Not a lot of difference.

I just spread it out a little bit. You know, I do like Willie with Matthews, but I think at the same time, it's nice to have a little bit more threat on two lines. So that was the reasoning for the night. Yeah. We talked about this yesterday. Yeah.

That you can have that top line together, but kind of fins you out throughout the rest of the team, and they saw enough of it, and they're trying it something different. Yeah, you're not going to get the matchups on the road, so you need to spread out your talent a little bit. I think Robertson's got the engine going right now. He's got energy, and I hope he, God, you can't believe you're saying this,

but I hope Robertson can get Matthews going. You know, I think it's in a fun part of the season where it's like, there's no way. What a sentence that is. Yeah. If there isn't a sentence that. Is it called damning with faint praise? Is that expression?

If there isn't a sentence that defines a 2025 Toronto Maple Leafs, like the one he just said, then there isn't one. I hope Nick Robertson can get Austin Matthews going. You sure about that? I think it is a fun time of year where it's like, you don't know what Robertson, his ceiling is or what he can be. Could he be a guy that you use later? I don't know.

He's going pretty good right now. So he's going to play tonight on the top line. So we'll see he's got to kind of continually prove himself, but earning his $1.8 million contract this year, which is cool. Any updates on Tanna or Lotton? Lawton, there was a, yeah, they gave him an update and, like, a potential on retribution for the Zadora. Oh, who's going to do anything to Big Zee?

Do you want to play the clip? We can hear it. He's progressing nicely. I think I might have skated today. I'm not sure, but I know that he wanted to get on the ice, so he's going in the right direction. Why that's not going to be happy with it? The hit, obviously, by Sadorovina. Well, nobody would be happy with that.

I mean, it's a tough hit. You know, I mean, but it is what it is. Do you expect, like, an emotional carryover? You're seeing him again pretty soon after they hit. Like, does that inject anything into this? Yeah, it should inject some fire in you, for sure, but we don't want to be stupid either. We've got to play the game.

We've got to do play it right. Yeah. Opportunity arises. You get a good lick on a guy. You get a good lick on a guy. I thought Bobby did a great job. Answered the Bell, did what he did. You know, we've got to move on, and we've got to play.

Send Bobby in again. What if you didn't want to do something stupid? What would your options be? Like what if you're like, yeah, we're mad about it. We're going to go get him. It'd be great. Send in Bobby again. The toughest guy in the team.

Send him in. Would be really great. Who would it be? Dakota Joshua. I think Brandon Carlo, I don't know. Carlo? At least he's a large animal. He acquitted himself well last year.

I think a guy like Dakota should step up. Yeah. If he's done it before, which he has, you know, go into Boston and listen, it's not about retribution, it's not whether or not it was a clean hit or dirty hit. It's, this is what it is, okay?

You're not, you're not going to run around and get licks on guys. Okay, I'm putting an end to that or I'm stopping it or I'm, you're going to have to go through me first. Or at least every time you do it, this is going to happen. That's what it is. Yeah. If he looks at our lineup and says no one's going to touch me, then it gives him a,

credit card to go and catch somebody else with their head down again. Yeah. And I can't have that. So who is it going to be? Now, McMahon, does he look and say, well, I did my job back then. It's not me tonight because that's a horrible attitude and it's a horrible mistake on his part. If he wants to go to another level, no matter on and off the ice or what the fans perceive of you, go in there and challenge him again, Bobby.

Go. I bet you. $10,000. that doesn't know it won't and i wouldn't take that bet because you're right but that's what it takes yes i know that's what it takes to be a team to be close together totally and to start progressing in the right direction is anybody willing to go and do that i would kill knowing you're knocking away i would kill for them to go in there and just do something so greasy today would you settle for a cross check to the teeth you know like some someone just says we're not i can't fight you

you but we're going to grease it up out here there's been one greasy thing all year and it was McCabe on tuck and then punch and tuck out I don't condone the cheap shot stuff but I mean I do I do I take a two game suspension I let me put Kim in front of me too I would take a two game suspension on Zezorov tonight I would get the flippers off just get some emotion

I like the idea that the Leafs are at a critical point in their season And it's, you know, are you going to come together? Are you going to find it? Do you care about one another? Are you going to put the group ahead of your own stuff? Yeah, and I don't think it'll take a two-game suspension. I don't take it's a cross-check.

It's just whatever the moment is called upon. And you don't know. It's not prescripted. You just got to feel it. And it's like a... It doesn't have to be first 10 minutes. It all depends on Zedoroff. Are we up one-nothing?

Have we got momentum? Is he quiet? is it? Like read the room guys. Read the situation. Who was it? Oh, God. Oh, yeah.

I was having a great, I think I was talking with Gaz who was talking about Trent Frederick and, you know, the way that the game before went where people were on him for not getting physical. And he was saying that Frederick after the game where he didn't fight. So this is pre-Columbus. He said that who's going to, he's like, I got one goal. Who's going to fight a guy with one goal?

No one's going to fight me. I've only scored one time. And Gaz was like, I led the league in fights with no goals. You know, people will fight with his. I didn't like Trent's comments there. It's just, it's, it's, it's, it's helping you justify whatever's about to happen or what's happened. Don't go there. So his point was that sometimes you have to make them fight you, make them maddy.

You create drama out there. You stir it up. You make them come to you with the way you're playing the game. And that's something that you'd like to see. And of course, you know, he went and fought. Olivier. Olivia who's the toughest guy in the league toughest guy in the league

and landed one we've heard we've heard from so many people we've heard so many people while he's he's out of his league he got beat up it didn't do anything for the game it's stupid it's anything you want and it and you could sit there from your couch eating your chips

and justify anything you want in that situation but you don't count and you don't matter What matters is how Connor McDavid felt and everybody else in that lineup. And if it's just one part of you that says you're willing to do that for us, then that take, that's enough. That's enough that a teammate can look at you and go, God, oh, buddy, like you have, you laid it on the line. You laid it on the line.

That guy catches you once, your career's over, you bust your jaw, you know, and you're still willing to go out there and do that for it. us. Well, we better get going. If you're willing to do that, then we got to be willing to do more than what we're doing right now. And that's the effect that something could have for the Leafs tonight against a guy like Zedoroff. That's all. I even think if, though, it's not so much you're willing to do that for us, just so much that this isn't the guy that signed an eight-year contract and now he's just going to ride off into the sunset. He cares what everyone thinks and for his own respect. So, you know, people look at him as someone who is, knows, it's important to

him that the team thinks he's trying and cares and involved and he made it. 100% and it's not the outcome it's just the willingness it's not whether you win the fight or lost the fight you're in the bottom of the pile you're on the top of the pile has nothing to do with that it's just the emotional effect that something like that can happen on your hockey club which has been missing from the Leafs for a long time it's funny though we should go oh yeah okay let's take away hold that thought yes hold that thought Billy Jaffe as well come Coming up after the break, we'll hear his thoughts on the Boston Bruins and their young star centerman named Fraser Minton.

Do you remember that name? Yeah, that's cool. More when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. This is uncomfortable. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program

Nick Caprio Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee Billy Jaffe all said That I don't know We got a couple minutes He's talking to him right now All right perfect Oh Joseph Wall's going to play a full game

Tomorrow night for the Marley's He only played half on the road and he's ready for his full game. And if he can play full games. Okay. It's game day, which means our next guest got a lot of homework to do to get ready for Toronto and

Boston. But in the meantime, let's ask him a couple of questions to tee up the game. Let's welcome in, Billy Jaffe. Billy, how are you, pal? What's up? What's going on? How are you doing? They're putting us back together again, buddy. You know, with all that magic over the years

at SportsNet. They can't keep us apart. They can't. What's happening? Listen, we know you only got a few minutes here as you get ready for tonight's matchup, but just let's just talk about the Bruins for a second and seeing a place that they've been familiar with over the years, and that's the top of their division.

And is there a surprise element here? Is there not? Where do you start with the Bruins on their start? We know it was going to be a grind fest. this whole season here, Nick. It's just, when you look at the lineup, you can't, you can't sugarcoat it. There's no, you can't BS it. Like, this was a team.

And Marco Stern was very forthright about it. You know, he's talked all along about not having as much skill as many other teams around them that they were going to have to work harder, work smarter, more determined. And that's what they've done. Now, there've been ups and downs, obviously. We've seen them just about every team except for maybe Colorado and Anaheim, you know, everybody else has kind of been up and down a bit. Maybe even Carolina has been pretty darn consistent, but everybody else has been up and down. But this Bruins team has recently figured out much more what they need to do in their own zone, much better structure through the neutral zone, and they're becoming a little bit more of a predictable team, Nick.

And I think that that's been something that's been key in this stretch where they've won six in a row. And they're getting balanced scoring. That's the other thing. Yeah, they've got posture knock and yeah, geeky. It's put up 11 goals. but otherwise it's been not a high-flying offense, but Nick, it's been a productively efficient offensive team because depth has come through for them so far.

Good start, no question. But I think this is what the year is going to be, partner. It's going to be a lot of this kind of grinded out. And can they make the playoffs, we'll have to wait and see. That's not a given by any stretch. Yeah, curious, because I know before the year, a lot of people kind of felt like the Bruins were maybe trying to rebuild, but they still had this talent.

They were stuck in the middle. But, boy, they're rolling pretty good right now. So how much of that do you credit to coaching? I think that there's a lot of credit you can give DeMarco Stern and his staff. Let's not look past, for instance, what Steve Spot has brought. I mean, he's made the power play breakouts and entries incredibly more efficient. They're producing. Now, granted, they really couldn't do much worse than last year,

but they're doing a hell of a lot better than that morning. And their, you know, Spot has done a lot of good things on the power play and connected with the guys there. But I do think that, you know, culture started with training camp. It was a very vastly different training camp, Justin, this year compared to last year. It just was disjointed last year. It didn't have a cohesiveness to it. This year it did.

So Marco has a lot of respect. You know, he's not that old. And yet he's not so young either that he's a newbie. He's had, you know, seven years between it being assistant and then ahead in the American League. Everybody can look at his hockey resume and say he's been there, done that. So I think a lot of it can be attributed to that. But the big thing, again, is how do you guys know, how do you get through to the players? How do you sell your message?

How much believability they have? And then they got to figure it out. It's taken them a while to figure out their D zone structure. They went from a true Boston Bruins zone defense to a hybrid. We're seeing more and more teams doing where there's zone low. And then if a player rides up or carries the puck up into the offensive zone, meaning from low to high, if an opponent does, they then turn into a man-to-man up top.

It's taken a while to figure that out. Some personnel has struggled with it more than others, but through coaching and video, and then I just think teamwork, they're starting to get it. You're listening to Billy Jaffe. NHL analyst for Nesson, host of the Morning Brew with Andrew Raycroft.

So you mentioned disjointed last season, training camp. You got to go to Jeremy Swayman in that whole situation. Here we are a year later. how's the goal-tending with Jeremy Ben and Corpusallo? We know what the leaf issue is in that. How's it looking right now in Boston? It's been, you know, it's been, Kippe, it's been pretty good.

It's, there's always room for improvement. Boy, if that's not cliche, I don't know what is. But if you look at it, you say, all right, you know, they both put up good numbers. And Corpicello has been a real battler this year. Now, neither of them have goals against under two and neither of them have a safe percentage above, nine. So you're like, what is this guy talking about? It's pretty good. Well, they've had a few

clunkers. They had the Ottawa game that they got throttled and they gave up, it was Swayman's turn and gave up goals there. They've had a bunch of, or a handful of other five goal against games. So it doesn't make the stats look good. But as part of the, Kippey, I'll talk, I'll call it a turnaround, right? They've only, they haven't, except for that Ottawa game, it's been like seven, eight games where they haven't given up three goals or more. Like, it's usually been one or two. So it's part and parcel where this is so obvious, too, but the goaltending gets better when the defensive structure gets better. You're not as chaotic in your own zone. You're not as unpredictable or giving up shots from all over. I mean, they were given up breakaways

again, an odd man's nick, all the time. So they've settled that down. So the goal tanning's been better. Swamen has been better lately. You know, there was a few games where Corpacello played in a row and Slayman didn't when he played two games in a row and everybody's like, oh, what's going on. And you're like, no thing's going on. You got a goalie in Corpusel who just won two games in a row. Let it be. Swayman started two in a row. Then Corp he went again. And now it's Jeremy Swamen going two in a row. With the condensed schedule, there's obviously a need for every team out there to have two legitimate goaltenders. You might have a number one, but your number two in the condensed schedule season has to, I got to imagine that you got to figure you need

30 to 35 games from your backup, legit games from your backup. Yeah, I think that's pretty reasonable. Hey, you know, you're on in the leaf hour right here, Billy, so I got to ask you, how's Fraser Minton been for the Boston Bruins this year? Oh, do you really want to go there? No, he's been awesome. Seriously, the kid is, and I'm not saying that to be a jerk. He just has been.

The kid is, first of all, he's mature beyond his years. It's impressive with how, not just hockey-wise, but just how he carries himself in the room, Morning. He's really a nice kid. personal, a pro. So that's the thing. He has pro written all over him. And again, I don't need to tell you guys, you saw him. Zadora talked about it the other day about how impressed he is with his stick. And you're like, some people might say, what's the big deal there? Oh, no, stick position is paramount. And it's always towards the puck. It's always anticipating the

passing lane. He's always ready that, you know, it's literally a matter of inches that make a difference in the NHL and he's done a good job of that being in the right spot he's stronger than he might look you know he's not this beast but he's got a robustness to him a stout kind of skating style and an ability to be in the play that have made a difference i mean he has justin he has fit in beautifully he is one of the guys he is a legit third line center i don't know is his upside more than a two? Well, I don't know. But, you know, he might slot eventually just as a great 3C who plays 17 minutes a game because he plays a lot of even strength in matchups. He kills penalties regularly. He's one of the top defensive forwards for them already. And then he plays, he'll play

some power play in the next few years as he gets older. So he could be a 17, 17, 17, 18 minute game, a guy when it's all said and done. He's been that good, Justin. So what is left? If, if If Minton ends up being a third line, great third line, second, what's the look of the Bruins short and long term up the middle of the ice because there's no Bergeron, there's no crichy, I mean, those days are long gone here. So, you know, it's amazing. Pastor Nack still looks like that superstar even without, you know, marshy, but what's it looked like for one, two up the ice?

Well, it's still, the number one is up in the air. They have this kid James Hagan's that they drafted number one last year in the seventh spot out of Boston College. Where is he going to be at? I mean, he'll play NHL games at the end of this season, but is he ready for a full NHL season after that rhetorically asking? I'm not sure yet. He's not a big guy. He's very crafty, shifty, but I'm not sure. So the one C-Sot is still open.

Lyndeholm is out with the knee injury right now, but when he's back in, he's a two for sure, you know, I mean, you know, where does he and Frazier, does Elias and Frazier toggle back and forth, or do they have kind of a mishmosh nick of a few lines, top lines? Those could be two of your three centers. Then Hagan's eventually could be, who knows, you know, hopefully if you're a Bruins fan, he can jump up there. But they still have a lot of depth, especially, They need depth everywhere, quite honestly. But everything is up front they need, you know, more depth, high scoring depth. And they've got four first round picks the next two years. So whether they use it to draft four players or make some deals, because all the top three agents are basically gone. You know, the offensive guys that I think every team was open for. You know, that's where you've got to make now deals come trade deadline or the draft. That's what they need.

They need a lot more offensive depth. They're getting good production from certain guys, but they need more because you know well, offense dries up. It does. So you need to get as much offensive guys as you can. Billy, have a great call tonight. We really appreciate you stopping by on our show.

All right, Jen, it's great to talk. We'll do it for a longer next time. Thanks, Billy. Talk to you later. It's Billy Jaffe from Nesson, Boston, Toronto tonight. Yeah, you mentioned Patrice Bergeron. The least traded them new Patrice Bergeron for first round pick and Carlo.

Oh, sorry, no, they gave up a first-run pick. So far ahead of yours. Yeah, that's getting a lot of play right now is just... I'm telling you right now, it's going to be in the RASC conversation. It's going to be in the say-again conversation. It's going to be one of the worst all-time. I feel it already. I feel it already.

Character young guy goes there, turns into one of the better two-way. I can just feel it. I feel it. At the time. At the time. I know these things. I've been living through this my whole life. I know what happens.

You may be right. You may be wrong. But at the time, the problem wasn't so much giving up Minton, but the problem was that you only had two that people were really asking for it. It was Cowan and Minton. And after that,

it was just dropped significantly. And Carlo at the time did make some sense to the Leafs. It did. A big part of what... Right shot, D, which were incredibly hard. They went after Rasmus Anderson. They couldn't get him. And Carlo at the time, 28 years old, maybe, he's young.

Boston ate a lot of his contract up. That always gets lost in the whole thing. People talk about the names. They forget that it's like, oh, they had to retain millions of dollars for it to work for, you know, the leaf step. Yeah, and they're not getting... Morgan, everybody was crying that Morgan had nobody to play with. That was the guy that was going to come in and help Morgan. Listen, I liked it.

the time but now with the benefit of looking at it i hate it so that's that he's got to find that level that was worthy of a first round pick and minton but maybe he never was worth that this guy has shown that he's capable of defending top competition i don't know what's going on right now i don't 20 minutes yeah and i don't think he's in age decline a 28 as a d man but i do think that people play good and play bad and go through stretches, whatever, and a lot of pressure on him now to sort this out, right? Like, this is, they need him to matter. Like, I think I've mentioned this to you before in the show.

I'll mention it again. His style of play is so not exciting for what you traded a top prospect in a first round pick for, that you're always going to be measuring against what you traded for it. And you're never going to be like, what a play. Like, it's never like a flashy. So you're never going to be like, what a zone entry denial that was.

What a great long stick. You would love to come in here after a playoff round and go, boy, that guy got nothing against Carlo. Would love that. You know? Would love that. Did that happen?

No. Okay. Still time. Stolars. Bounce back game tonight. Yeah. Hope so. Do we have Barubian stole ours quickly?

Let's do it. Clip six, please, Derek. Let's do wall after two. I think Anthony's game goes a lot, has to do with our game too. I think that, you know, there's a lot of, there's games this year where he's been solid, but we're giving up, you know, chances that we did not give up last year. To me, it's a big difference. How seriously.

We have to tighten that up and we have to, you know, give up the shots from, certain areas of the ice. Our goalies will have more success. So you circled the Chicago game on Saturday as a potential Joseph Wall start and it seems like that's pretty much bang on. Right? Because if he starts tomorrow night

and where are they tomorrow? Grand Rapids potentially. It's done. He's done it. It's like with tomorrow at least one more and get your ass in there. And then they play Thursday against the Kings and then their next game is Saturday night against Chicago in Chicago. I'll go, Joseph Wall started that game.

Yeah. Which, that'll be like November 18th, and I want to say mid-October, we call the Wall return on November 21st, I think we said. So, way to go, us. It's almost like Kipp or knew something. This is good. No.

What do you laugh at? Because you do this thing where you pretend you don't know stuff and then you nail it, and then you're like, oh, what a surprise. It's good to kind of not tip your hands, Gary. You're just telling me what you've heard, not telling me what you know. Our thanks to Billy Jaffe from Nesson.

Not a must win for the Leafs. Can't lose. But can't lose. That's good. That's Sammy's motto tonight. Ah, we go national next. Steve Aliquette on his Tuesday. Plenty more still on the Real Kippin-Born show.

Do not. I repeat, do not go away. Thank you.