Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Defensive Disarray + Playoffs in Question?

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee reflect on their game at the Easter Seals charity tournament on Friday before looking back on the Leafs' weekend where they lost back-to-back games to the Boston Bruins and Carolina Hurricanes. They discuss Anthony Stolarz's play, defensive struggles and Craig Berube's impact. Then, they ask what's wrong with Auston Matthews and whether the Leafs are at serious risk of missing the playoffs. Later, they react to John Tavares's critical postgame comments calling the team 'immature.' The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliate.

Start of the week, which means 4 to 6 p.m. Eastern, it's the real Kipper and Bourne Show leaf hour edition of our program. Nick Kipperyl, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Jake the snake Schultz, Derek Brande, we're with you for the next two hours. We are live on Sportsette 360, Sports at 590, the fan in Toronto. And streaming always on SportsNet Plus. And if you don't catch us live, no worries, Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube on a download near you. So before we get into the Toronto Maple Leafs, I have to say that the weekend ended well, or the week ended well because we didn't work Friday. That was nice. And over the last week and a half, two weeks, we went into a little bit of a championship.

Charity campaigned for Easter Seals. Eric Lindross had his tournament on Friday. We participated. We were able to raise, I think, $30,000 in a short while. Thank you all so much. All of you were great with it. That really was a tremendous support. We were surprised by the support.

It's certainly encouraging for us to do that again next year. In the meantime, we had to play a game. Hold on. Before you get into that, can I tell you, can I tell the story about the draft? Is that allowed? Yeah, sure. Thursday night. Thursday night, there was a draft party.

At Scotch Bank Pond. So me and Kipper went. Borny was coaching a high-level hockey game, so he wasn't available that night. Of course, go tornadoes. And, you know, it was made clear before the tournament. Because Kipper was a celebrity guest of the, like one of the draftable guys. But it was made very clear before the draft that Kipper was kind of off the board.

He was on our team. He was on the real Kipper and board team. It was made very clear. So the first overall pick was. was it's Toronto Prep School, right? Toronto Prep School won the thing. How much did they raise almost? $80,000.

They raised $80,000. So they have the first overall pick. It was Peter. And now, to be clear, in the building was Ryan Getslaff, Chris Verstieg, Colby Armstrong, like we're talking. Darcy Tucker. Players. Darcy Tucker, like, you know, John LaClair, Adam Graves.

And Nick Kippey, they don't care. They blow right through the stop size. And they take Kippy with the first overall pick. No, no, so. They just blew the stop sign. Fabless was like, stop. When I got there, when I got there, it was that I'm on real Kippenbornborn. I've raised money.

That's our team. I'm not going to be taking part in the draft. So the prep school led by Peter. Played some Marley's time. Yeah, a little bit, yeah, yeah. And good hockey player. Very good. I tell him, listen, I'm with my team.

So I'm not eligible. He goes, oh, no, I'm still drafting. But I'm going to play with real kipper. He goes, I don't care. I don't care because I want you. And do I go to arbitration? Is there a hearing? But we are taking you first overall.

Yeah. And then they did. And then, yeah. So I played with them the following morning. Yeah. And lost. Mm-hmm. And then I played with you guys, and we won.

Against them. Against them. So they had to play against them. Cimacallis. Peter Cimacallis. Yes. Peter Cimacallis. Okay.

Simacallis. Greek. Okay, now I get it. Yeah, there's some. No, I get it. Now I get why they went first overall. You cannot break that bond, you know? So Kipper who texts me this morning, and he's like,

do you think we can get highlights for the show? Okay, hold on for a second. Hold on. Just a second for it. if we poop the bed I'm not calling for highlights all right but we were the opposite of poop

we were really good the three of us were really good so for those of you that can't watch there's a there's a I put together an old picture of a line together with the poses and you guys were like

or not posing I'm like we're posing we're posing somebody tweeted me and said I'm built like a stop sign which I loved So here we are the three of us. We start the game, and I think we scored on the first shift. So I think we scored the first four or five shifts. I don't know.

Okay. Are we going to do this? Are we going to play these highlights? Well, people want to see some highlights. Okay. But is your game winning goal on it? Okay. That's all we want.

I want. Okay. So you guys didn't get to play in the first game. And Kipper, you're playing with the prep school. Borny was doing a whole kid drop-off situation, trying to get around Toronto, there for 9 a.m. Very tough. Get it. So I was playing in the first game and there's a story around the tournament of me going on the, like going on the ice in the first game. With ski guards on?

With my skin cards on. Oh, you full Bambi? And I have to tell you, I have never done that in my life. Like literally like everyone has the story of doing it. Are you that nervous? This is the, no. I just didn't. For that dumb. Dumb. Okay. So I thought it would be appropriate to kind of set the Tom if we're going to play a highlight to show the highlight of you're saying we coming out here are water bottles all over the ring buddy that's full Disney Bambi on ice so there's the first clip we have the clip of our first shift together

if you want to break down here here do you want to do this listen I'll do it all hour if it keeps us if it avoids us talking about the leaf All right. So if you're going to watch, this is the next highlight here. This is our first shift together, the real Kippron-L-Born line. A little breakout pass to Borny, saucer over to Nick Kiprios, and look at this. The patience.

NHL patients right there. Shoots it in the net. That was our first goal. Billy Smith coming out on. Really exciting stuff. Everyone's fired up. This is insane. We're doing this.

I don't want to do this anymore. No, no. Do we have your goal next? Well, we have, I got a goal of all of ours because we have the goofy fair. Keep it going. Roll. All right. We'll go on the second.

one board yeah here we go look at the skating by borne here that is just flying looking like a young bobby born look at the leg and cut oh yeah yeah that's willie okay so there's the second goal okay can we get to the game winner yeah let's get to the game this is todd bertusie we are tied four four four right now five five yeah five five yeah I break it out kippy spin play off the wall to get the space sammy's off way up the zone 97 down oh gosh Oh, yeah. Very nice. Okay, I know.

Way to go, Sammy. All right. It's got to be the highlight of your life right there. So everybody kept coming up to me and being like, oh, my God, can you believe that happened? Like, I have played hockey since I was five years old. I've scored a lot of goals in my life. Like, they're like, wow, good for you, man. I'm like, yeah.

You believe you did a goal? Like, I did it. Like, as you guys saw, I don't totally suck. Like, were you expecting me to be worse or better? Absolutely exactly What I thought you would be And I don't mean that in a drawing You have good hands as a golfer

I expected you to be able to handle it And can't really skate There you go Happy? Happy we played that Because I'm not That went against every sensibility I have No I'm

I was quite pleased There's a sense that The three of us have some chemistry On our show Yes But it showed on the ice We have the making of, you know, you have a nice

grit and patience to it and Sam's got some finish. We're able to piece it together here. Good, I don't know what I do up there. Okay. Now, if we're doing the, you know, the praise hour here. I am. I am. I was very impressed with Justin Boren's game. Listen, you're obviously great. You had, you know, but he's like 80 years younger than me.

I know. He should be flying. You still have the instincts, but, you know, like a little older, I get it. Like you're a little veteran. But I turn like a train now. Borny the second he stepped on the ice I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. He's peak now really good. He's in his time. This is the, you know, watching Kip and Lindross and those guys

have the patience and poise and the way they think the game is a different level from anything anyone else is doing out there. It is a different type of game. And the first game that we played, you guys didn't play, and we got to play against John McClare, which was really cool. And holy crap, does he still have the next thing? It's like just smooth as butter.

All right. Enough. All right. We got to win. We got to win. One and O for the boys. Can we play one shift for the Leafs maybe tomorrow and I? Tip had two and three for five, by the way.

No big deal in the game. Can they use us is what I'm asking you. Well, you know what? I will say a number of times playing with you. I did notice your attention to detail, back check, through the middle, good stick. They could use a lot of that. I'm going to tell you, I'd fit right in on this here. Let me leave.

Leave it right in, baby. There was, yeah. Just when they suck you back in, Sammy, with their three-game win streak. I mean, they'd won four or five, right? Yeah, before this weekend. Like, they kind of had felt like there was- You dropped a we're back. I did, yeah.

You dropped a we're back. Yeah, I think, you know. And where are you after the weekend? To quote one of my favorite movies of all time, Dumb and Dumber, what was all that one and a million? What was all that were back, Doc? Oh, my gosh. Holy crap.

It was lazy hockey. You want to get into specifics or you want to generalize the weekend first? We have a coach that generalizes it so I don't have to. Well, they didn't play. They didn't skate today. So day off. So they didn't really have a look back at the weekend. But we have two overviews.

Do you want to touch on anything Saturday night in particular before Sunday? Or again, do you want to just blanket this thing with broobies? I do think that it all was connected. I thought the problems in one game were the problems in the next game. I think if we're going to have a conversation about the Saturday night game, I think the worthwhile conversation would be to have about the worries of Anthony Stollers. Where, you know, like, I think they're the defensive breakdowns. I've been pretty putrid throughout this whole season,

but I wouldn't exactly say he bailed him out Saturday night. But, like, you didn't be too harsh on that? Why the defensive meltdown from something that was fairly strong last season? Or was it maybe not as strong as we thought and it was covered up with a 926 save percentage and Stolars just made it look way better last year than it really was? I got an article coming. Here's some rush chances stats. Last year they were eighth in the NHL in rush chances against, so pretty good.

And fourth in rush goals against. Very good. This year they are 31st in rush chances against and 32nd in rush goals against. The last year they gave up 34 goals on rushes against total. They're already at 15, and we're 15 games into the year. So they are way worse than last year. Way, way worse in that regard. Wow.

Yeah. Like, hey, Mitch Martner was a good defensive player, but this is, you know, this is beyond that. What is going on? Yeah. And although, I mean, yeah, the guy did play 24 minutes a night. Yeah. But you know who else played center? David Camp.

David Camp played defense and had a conscience too I mean I'm not saying No no no no I'm just saying like listen I'm with you now and I'm like to listen to now them Elliot had a report Saturday night on hockey night Canada about a signing bonus which I think it means a lot to him A million dollars I would imagine

And I don't know how with the percentage of it That the Leafs expect back from it It would be pro rated I'm sure But like how about you keep all of it and you go back to work. Totally. That's a... How about that?

I fully intended today that would be like a strong take. Is David Kampen option? Like, get back to work. They're glaring omissions are defensive. And bad positioning and all the things he does well. And Scott Lotton just got popped by Zedorov.

And, I mean, that looks like a concussion of some kind. So I don't know when he'll be back. So it seems like they could use it. Like, I mean, Max Stone would have Max Stone we play last night as a fourth line set or eight minutes. Yeah. That was not pretty. Nine minutes? It's, I don't know.

Want to go to Bruby off of Boston or Carolina first? Why don't we play the overview of the Bruins game and then we can kind of move on? I thought three of the goals, we ended up bringing the puck back in our zone. We didn't need to. We could have just got it out, but they ended up scoring on three of them. You know, I think we just, I thought we didn't execute well enough with the puck or. on some of these plays. But, you know, I think we all got to be better,

including the goalie, everybody. We didn't execute well enough and made some, you know, for me, we caused all them goals ourselves. He's not wrong. Like, I'm watching, they get the first goal, which was nice, Saturday night. That was Nick Robertson

on the power play. So much to like about that. Yep. Great pass. by domi. Right? Cross eyes on the tape. Hey, it's not Willie. It's not Tavares.

It's not Austin. It's other guys contributing at a key part on a power play. And then 18 seconds later than Morgan Geeky comes, Boston's coming through the neutral zone a thousand miles an hour. And 18 seconds later, it's 1-1. How many times does that happen, though, this year, which is like the rush chances, it's just wide open in the middle of the ice? You know, I'm not as down on the goal-tending.

I am down on the goal-tending, but as down to some people who think it's a crisis, but that one killed me. That one just killed me where it's like, it's on the ice and you're six-foot-six. Like you pad down, paddle down, whatever. It should never go in just a shot off the post on the ice. Also, the gaps are atrocious there,

which is, I think, more what you're referring to. But we got, we got, they've got a forward there standing, and it's almost as if you're playing Red Rover, Red Rover we call the Bruins over and you're standing still and I think it was Lawrence just standing there. It's like you're not slowing anybody down

when you're just standing. Yep. So he's turning around now he's a third defenseman here. He's almost standing still. He cannot force left or right. He's too he's standing still. Rather than angling skating with him.

You cannot slow anybody down standing still waiting at the red line. I feel like I've watched this exact goal How deep Riley is having that 25 times this year But when you don't angle When there's no forward to angle off In the neutral zone

They are a little cook back there Yeah I see what you're saying Like it doesn't help the DL It doesn't help Yeah It doesn't help So you don't know whether to stand If you try to stand up

Then you're going to get caught Flatfooted as Lawrence did Lawrence is one of the guys I've been confused on this year Because watching him I like his pace and energy And I think he's finishing checks and doing all these things that I want him to do,

he's on the ice for a lot of goals against. And he got benched because of a giveaway late in the third period where he coughs it up and Franginton ends up shooting it in the net. He just ends up slamming a stick against the post and frustration and it's not a good look. And then the other one was the Arvinson goal too where Myers, like go watch Myers on that goal for a second.

just he's the plays in your own zone your defense your defenseman and he's that's the two one goal right the two one goal he's he's standing up he's upward yeah watching standing up and the the freedom to get to the net there it's like you cannot believe that this was the majority of the team still that won an Atlantic division it's like, not a chance. Yeah, Myers last year felt like a guy who was a good NHL defenseman who was blocked by the fact that the Leafs had six solid

NHL regulars and he just couldn't get in. He's been really disappointing for me this year and gone for a pile of goals against. Can I tell you I have a hard time being like Myers? None of them are doing anything good. Yeah, I like two guys. I like McCabe and OEL. I don't like any of the rest. But like

their highest paid guys like Riley who is supposed to be But hold on. Myers just turned that over there. I know. He turns it over here. And then DeKipps, when he stands up. Just watch. Just watch.

Then he just. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. That's not been great. That's not NHL standards. But I understand that. But like, what's the option here?

I don't think Dakota Murmiss fixes anything, you know. Like, are you going to go get that, like William Villanouve or Henry Throon or Rify? Does any of it make a difference? I don't think Rifi who got hurt, right? In the preseason. I'm sure he would have got a look, but God, it's ugly. so yeah that one's tough so a big thing like i did leaps talk last night and you know a lot of people in my mentions and my dms i it's a natural thing that sports fans do but when the team starts

to struggle and they're looking like this people start talking about coaching right and you know i i'm guilty of talking about it last night but i got to tell you how many different coaches are we going to just like continue to blame when it's the same guys that are like doing a lot of the same stuff i i just see him behind the bench and he's losing his mind all the time now like he's screaming up and down the bench and he's yelling f bombs and f me and just like he's really really demonstrative back there's which is something you don't see a ton from nchel coaches and then you see the guys go on the ice and they don't look like they're mad about it so it's like That would be worrying to me if I'm Barouba, where he's, like, really coaching hard and there's no response to it.

Okay, we'll respond off of your comments, but let's just give Barabia a chance here on how to improve. That's clip six, Derek. Well, like you said, I just keep working at it. Like, you know, I mean, I, you know, my job as a coach is to get them back on track, and that's what I'm going to try to do. That's what I've done. And I'm going to keep banging away at it. And, you know, it's all, you know, it's what we can do. You look at video, you talk, you know, we've got to have discussions with players, with the team, and, you know, get back.

We're scoring enough goals every game to win games, where we're letting in too many goals. So pretty much the season is we don't value the defensive side of the puck enough. And there's a number of things that go into that, but I'm not going to get into all that. We just don't, right now, we don't value that. he's right he's wrong because he says we don't value it enough and i'm like you you don't value it at all not at all zero enough means that you might be close you're not close it is it is i don't think i've ever seen as a player or uh a broadcaster in all my time where a team's down a goal with around eight or nine minutes

and not end up with one shot on goal to try to tie it up. But that's the opposite of what we're talking about, like the defensive stuff. That's an offensive thing, right? Like why? Where's the push after you're down? Where is the push? Where is, to Sam's point, like, Craig Bruby can scream all he wants. We've got to get better.

We can't, but it's, whatever. he's screaming and whatever frustration he's showing the players and obviously we can see it right it's still they're not responding it's not working yeah it does feel like there's a disagreement an unspoken disagreement between the players and the coach and how they want to play because the coach says the same thing every time he wants to play simple he wants to make the easy plays he wants it in deep he wants to get off after it and i don't they're pretty talented team that seems pretty resistant to doing that they They don't seem to have a way to get any consistent traction in the offensive zone.

And so maybe they want to make plays more than he wants them to. Maybe he needs to move the other way and let him make some plays. I don't know what the answer is, but they're not on the same page, the coach and the team right now. And that's, to me, that's where Craig Ruby really has to coach here. It's just. How do you sell the guys? You know, the frustration and the yelling and the challenging them and all of that.

But I just think from a system's point of view, from tactic point of view, they're going to have to change something here. They're going to have to get all together again and go, okay, whatever we did in the past, we're changing the system. To me, that's what needs to happen here to get another chance, to give yourself another chance to regroup here fast. I mean, is that something you can do? it is you can do anything you want if you're a coach you can try to get them to do anything you want how they respond or or whether it's positive or negative remains to be seen but that's just not good enough i've said this for the last little while now i hate the stretch i hate the gap between forwards and and the defense i look at uh willie's first goal where morgan starts

starts it and it's the 40 foot pass off the wall where I think Willie's from Nyes into the middle is waiting for it. Yeah, it's a set play, which they look good. It looked good, right? Yeah. But like it's the nine times it doesn't work. Well, and it'll be a lot more than nine once another team watches it in video and goes, hey, here's what they do.

So you can look at it and say, that's a hell of a goal in November. But how many times did we see that stretch pass happen in the playoffs? They tighten up to your point. They figure it out. And short support is way better. They don't come out together with five guys. They five, seven foot passes, support passes. I don't see too many of them.

Yeah. You know, it's trying to find more possession is a big thing. So they are a team who creates more offense. than their possession, right? Like often the possession, the other team has it for eight minutes more than them, but like the chances are even. But that puts a lot of pressure on your defense

to be in their own end and pressure on your goal tending and all, it just taxes your team a lot to play that way. And once you aren't putting those opportunities away, you're going to lose a lot of games. So I don't know. They need to find a way to have the Pocamore. That's one thing for sure.

It has to start with your best players too. And I know we've, as a media, there's been a lot of talk about, you know, Tavares's offense and Willie's offense and the numbers look good and they're up there with the big boys and it's all great, but it comes at a price. It seems that their offense and their starts have come at a price of either blown the zone or the defense. But it's, they can't outscore their mistakes. And I think they've been in, I don't know, maybe their whole careers.

So I don't mind those two, though. Like those two, to me. There's just not, Willie had a bad giveaway again, you know, in the neutral zone. And. But him and Tavares haven't, to me, been. No. What I'm trying to tell you is that if you're going to ask your team to just play better defense, And I don't care what happens in the offensive zone.

My concern is keeping the puck out of the net. It's not scoring goals. So if you ask your team to go back and revisit to be better defensively, it has to start with your best players. For sure. They have to show. They can't say, don't do what I do. Do what you're supposed to do.

And it's like, no, it doesn't work. Then we're into team A and team B again. So I'm 100% on your page. I just looking through numbers and watching all this. Like, to meet Tavares, he's their best forward in terms of like goals against this year in his minutes out there. He's done a good job all over the ring. I don't think that pretty much everyone else has been any good.

And Austin Matthews, who I wrote about today, is such a, I don't know, such a topic right now where everyone you talk to goes, what do you think is wrong with him? No one says, do you think he's the same player? Everyone says, what do you think it is? that's off. And so he's one of those guys, Kip. There's a giff in my article today of him standing behind the net will his two teammates dig in the corner instead of going up high, which I'll show you off the air. It's just like, it has to come from him. He's the captain. He's the leader.

He's the guy. And then I've got some other stats in there about how he's fallen off to. You're not wrong. And he would be at the top of my list of asking players, the good players, to lead defensively, the effort defensively but nobody blows zones nobody's everybody has to do their job to get the puck out of our zone first after that i'm not worried about it but today at practice i need you guys to lead the charge of better defensive hockey because they'll follow you you're still supposed to be the leaders they will follow you that's that's the ask today and for william john they've got nice cushions on their stats now please just keep it out of our net as priority one a Thank you. I don't think it'll ever be a problem.

They're so gifted those guys. Can I ask you, though, like, they're going to start that in year? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, your point's really good here. It's like, I want them to, and they probably should realize that they need to, but those are two very different things than getting it to happen. But Craig Bruby and Brad Tree Living have not been in here all 10 years of their career. So it's not too late for them to ask because they're still, fairly fresh on this.

There was also a lot of talk for years that it was like, oh, they got a contract coming up. They need a contractor. These guys are under contract. They're not playing for money. They're not playing for legacy. They've got lots of both at this point. It should be really easy to sell them on defense.

Oh, I disagree. I think they're playing for legacy here. They will be regarded as the biggest disappointments in leaf history. If they don't win. If they don't find a way to turn this thing around and compete this season. Yeah. I want to ask you about Matthews, I wasn't done on that. So I, just because he's still the same smart slick kind of player, right?

Like he made a great play against Carolina, goes to the back door. He knows where to go. He almost chipped another one in. But, you know, bunk in our post game show, I did Leafs talk on Saturday night. It was like, you know, has he just lost his fastball? Does he just not? And he's not even talking about just the shot. But like he doesn't dominate physically like he does.

So I went, NHL Edge has stats that go back to 21, 22. His hardest shot by year. 96, 94, 91, 90, 86 this year. So five straight years, it's gone down. This is the first year, is skating speed. The top one is below 50th percentile. And then time in offensive zone. So 99th percentile is tops.

99th, 96th, 65th, 62nd, below 50th this year. Like, he has just lost the ability to drive a line. And I don't know if it's injury. I don't know if it's how he takes care of himself off the ice. I don't know if it's, go ahead and list all the reasons, the coaches or whatever. Lack of Marner. Whatever your list. And I even went through with Marner and without stats.

Oh, this is an internal thing. Yeah. This is physically he's not the same guy because he did well without Marner in the past. I don't, you can add. Something's not. You can add to physically, mentally, mentally, emotionally, all of it. It's dropped for him. And everyone's going, why?

We don't have that answer. We just know it's visible in the numbers and I know. What we see is that he's lost an edge. They all have to play with an edge. And whatever that means to you, it doesn't mean to me or anyone else. But whatever pilot light was lit is pretty dim right now. Yeah.

He is not hungry. He is not, there's no edge to him at all. Zero. He looks to me like a guy that's just collecting a paycheck right now. And so what part of this is, Like I want to be careful because it could be injury. It could be a number of things. But you don't get the benefit of the doubt of the injury.

If you don't come out and say I'm not healthy, I'm sorry. But, you know, and do what you want with it. It kind of played last year out. Nobody ever got explanations. Nobody ever got definitive answers to that. You want to float that out again. Do it all day long. You're just not going to get the benefit of the doubt like you did last year for it.

Yeah. You're not. Well, and that's fine. Fine. If you're done with the benefit of the doubt, then I agree with you. He doesn't have an edge. He's not physically engaged. And so here's the thing I want people to separate. He's still an elite player in the league like this.

But he's so talented. He's going to score 40 goals doing this. He's going to be a point. He'll be a point per game guy. He's going to do things that other people can't win faceoffs, all that. But his bar is here. But it can't help you win. Well, it can't.

It needs help. And that's why we're like, we got to give him. him Nyes and Nealander, it's like, oh, he's the guy who's supposed to drive Domi and Bertuzi. He's not supposed to need help. The thing that I think is glaring is when you put those three guys together, what it does the rest of your lineup, right? Because it's like, totally. I mean, Willie with however many goals in the second line is a different animal than having to

have all three of them together and then taking away from the rest of your team. So, I don't know. Like, if it's going to be like this all year, inconsistency and, kind of look good some nights and look bad nights. They're going to be in top to make the playoffs, straight up. So I did include that in the article. Dom Lucision had, for the first time since 2016-17, he has the Leafs projected at less than 50% chance to make the playoffs.

48% I believe as of today by one model. There's a million models out there. And we're not that far off to that American Thanksgiving. It's sneaking up here. They're going to be, they're in tight. This is not a skate to the top of the Atlantic Division. This is how do we figure things out here? They got some holes to plug.

Yeah, but by the way, they're going to make playoffs. Can I say, that's my take. Can I say, though, that, like, part of me, part of me likes a, I wouldn't mind a different route where they're no good in the regular season. Yeah, they find it. They have to scrap and fight at the bottom of the standings to get into the playoffs and they come together as a group later in the season as opposed to cruising. Why not try something different?

All right. Be a bad red. A regular season team and a good playoff team for a change. Try that. Why not? It was the part where you said just coming together like great. Maybe they will. Maybe they will.

But maybe so will 25 other teams right now. Kipper, I'm searching, buddy. I know you are. I watched that game last night and I was like, oh my God. Sammy, it doesn't have to be that way and it's not supposed to be that way. It's not. Okay. And nobody expects you to be great over 82 games.

But they expect more than what they saw this weekend. I'd still a very talented team right yeah yeah I it just felt I text Sam you were in transit at one point about the third period against Carolina and I said they're going to get rolled the Leaf's just like it felt like they were hanging on against Carolina and Willie missed an opportunity and right now to Kipp's point you can just tell that they don't have it they don't have the effector right now I'm not hungry and they're not not they have no edge yeah no edge but you know some teams that have like that are bad don't have the talent you're like there's they just don't have the horses they can't do it i don't look at the leaps

and say that they have talented players this team can be good oh mcmans talented McMahon like they have a lot of guys like that to me where it's like yeah we talk when when nick robertson's kind of having a good year they got good top end guys that decor has been successful they have guys even in the bottom yarn crockle can get well was a cup winning third line center. Absolutely. They, you know, they have guys who can do it. So I don't think they're under talented. I think the coaching staff has a lot of work ahead of them. I do too. Yeah. And they need, but they need, they, the coaching, they need to come up with more than just trying to browbeat them, you know, on the bench or in the dressing room, whatever Craig does to get that frustration

well beyond past the cameras. It's not enough now. He needs to be a little bit more sophisticated and come up with a few more different looks to their system. Yeah. But like, does he strike you as a guy that's going to change midstream? That's what coaches are supposed to do. They make their adjustments now. That's what they're supposed to do. But does he strike you as a type of?

We haven't seen it yet, have we? I don't think he's had his backup against the wall like this. So we'll see. Okay. All right. And there's pressure on. God, they got Boston again. There's pressure on tree living too

to still find different ways to improve this roster. And we've had this conversation already and it's not even mid-November, but he's in for a challenge of his life. He's got limited, limited assets right now. Yeah. And still the roster doesn't appear to be good enough. Crazy.

David Camp can't get on this lineup or in this lineup. Yeah. I just, I don't know. How are you going to? Yep. How are you going to improve? Just right now, they need to squeeze more out. And Carlo, I don't know.

He was way better in Boston. Way better. Was he? Listen, I say what you will about him, but that's not a guy that you trade for your first round today. He's not even close. I saw Myrtle on with Bunkus today on their podcast talking about how they had some buyer's remorse on Carlo

and they were maybe trying to move them for Paterka during the off season. So that was coming. I was like, oh, great. That's not going to help. What if we got a small skilled assist guy? Well, I mean, yeah, Peturca would be like under the microscope even worse here.

But I just mean like that's kind of where they're at with him. But I don't know. Like, the thing that really worries me from a perspective in terms of Christ Tanev, do we get a little break? We do. We will. Is somebody saying that in your ear?

No. Okay. We're not going to break it. Oh, whatever. I mean. I'm not the producer. I'm just asking. Listen, we played 10 minutes of highlights from our.

He scored the game winner. He'll tell them when it's time. Please. Good point. I just think that, like, I hope the way they've looked and the nature of Chris Tanev's two injuries that he's had back to back, I really hope they don't rush him back. When are we going to see him? That's, I'm a little concerned.

Tanev? Yeah. Like playing? Yeah, there's no talk about him feeling better. I hadn't seen any. Maybe I'm thinking about the last one. I just hope. But do you know what I mean?

Like those were pretty scary injuries. And I don't want them to be like, we're desperate for a defenseman. We're going to put him back in there maybe before he's ready. He's at a different point of his career. Worries me a little bit about it. They need to win so they don't feel pressure to make dumb decisions. Bingo.

All right, we should go to break. Okay, we'll go to break and we return. We'll get a John Tavares clip on... what he thinks maybe is the issue here. Interesting words from the former captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. When we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kippreos, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

Hey, before we move into more leaf stuff, I wanted to shout out Kevin Tracy from Sporescent, the sales guy here does a wonderful job coordinating all this kind of stuff. And I've played in a bunch of these tourneys with him. and he headed up doing this and he was the captain of the team. He's the man and he's a slick hockey player. More importantly, that was a nasty, saucy through the back door.

He can really snap it. And showed out our goalie, Jess, who absolutely kept us in. Our advanced staff, that was a very leafy win. It was. We got caved in at points. And Aylish and Justin, too. Awesome.

More Ailish. Yeah, for sure. She can play the game. Oh, yeah, she's really good. She really headsy. It's almost like she played collegially and, No, no, you saw some real hockey there from Eilish. We had some smart hockey players.

Very good team. Yep, good team. Okay, interesting comments from John Tavares. I mean, over the years, we know that he's a safe guy, never really rocked the boat too much, you know, with post-game comments. But, like, if you're hearing a little bit of frustration out of John Tavares, you know that things need to change. Let's have a listen to his comment.

on the weekend. Well, they're a good hockey team, and they put a lot of pressure on you. So, you know, at times we did some really good things, earned opportunities, and we're able to give ourselves a lead, and then, you know, our game just, for whatever reason, becomes really immature, and we don't manage the game very well. How do you break that cycle?

I mean, we have a lot of very good hockey players. We have a very veteran team, so it's just the decision to do it. shift after shift. A very veteran team that he called immature. Like that's... I do want to just note one little detail. Carolina is a very good team.

That was a good team they played. Like if you were looking at measuring sticks... Without Shane Gossus Bear, Jalen Chatfield, or Jacob Slavin. But are they 20 to 2 in the third period good? No. They are second in the NHL and shots per game. No. With Brennan Bussie and...

So I got the word. generic helmet of everything. No, no, no. I'm just saying they weren't playing, you know, dogs. They had a good test, and they didn't live up to. They failed the challenging test. What did Hildeby keep the score from becoming? Hildaby gave up five goals, and I think he had over 900 save percent.

Oh, my God. They gave up 85 shots in two games. They could have lost, they could have lost 10-3, 11-3. I think the post probably made a dozen saves. You know, they give up four breakaways in the second period. Four breakaways in the second period. How does that happen for a team that, it wasn't too long ago, people were saying they're a hard team to play against.

You can't get into the dirty areas with them and get a shot through. They blocked everything. That was last year. And now, John Tavares, who's his, you know, maybe got the strongest voice right now. in the room, believe it or not, when he gets the seat taken off of him, calls him immature. I have been cutting John Tavares clips

or listening to John Tavar's clips or whatever you want to say for 10 years now as an editor, as a producer, as whatever I am on this show, all these different things. First time, something interesting has been said. Yes. Like I actually like,

it's pretty remarkable that he talks to media for like five minutes a day every year for 10 years and it's never anything interesting. It's amazing that he does. No, I got a theory. It's, I think there's a cutoff date that you go into this new version of yourself. We've seen it with athletes. And, and, like, this is the year that he's in his mid-30s.

Well, whatever the case is, but now we're also hearing that he's one of the funniest guys on the team. You know, who said that? Scott Lotton. He called him, like, he's really funny. He started calling him chuckles. I mean, I'm not getting... What? No way. I'm not getting humor out of it.

But, like, so I think he's now, when you get into your mid-30s, you kind of see where you are, where you're at. You become more of who you really are as you get old. Maybe the guards down a little bit more, you know, like Luongo went from being this kind of, you know, bit of a sour puss to being like one of the best, nicest, funniest guys, Mr. Instagram. you know, at the end of his career. Yeah. I don't know if John will ever get there, but he won't. He, now he's starting to maybe just go, okay, like, I signed here.

And I took less. And I deserve some saying what's going on here. Did I just sign here so I could pad my stats and get in the Hall of Fame? Or do I want to try to win a Stanley Cup still? I, yeah. No, listen, I think you're right. And what I think is really cool about it is he said something. saying the most interesting thing he's ever said. And not one of us went in here today and went,

shouldn't have done that. It's like, no, he was right. Oh, no, totally. It looked immature. That checks, you know? Incredibly immature. And so, you know, that's a, veteran team.

That's a voice they need to hear. They're old. They're old. The team has got a lot of guys who've been around. And Austin could learn something off of that little clip, too. And I'm not saying that it's hard for him because he has not been great. but even if he called himself out more and he said that's unacceptable

and I look disgusted look sickening McDavid does it well he's a grump I take a grump I would love an Austin Matthews grump right about now because I grabbed the audio to listen to it to see if there's anything worth cutting of Austin yeah

and it's just it's it's not the tone is never annoyed that's what i would say he's saying things that like you think he's just trying his best to get through it as quick as possible every single time that's what it sounds like to me and sure maybe they hate doing it so i get it every day but like just say one thing to try to fire everybody up the passengers thing last year was one thing that he said he called it the crowd after reeves fought the one time like get in the news a little.

Yeah. You know, like for a reason that you're calling out your team and then go out there and score a hat-trick. Wouldn't mind to see that. Call yourself out. Sure. Start there. Sure.

That way you can never get in trouble. Yeah. Yeah, you hold yourself responsible or whatever. It'd be nice. But, you know, you'd also like to see that frustration spell out in the rink. I don't know if you guys have been following the Oilers and we'll talk about them in the next block. But, you know, they're talking about Trent Frederick.

you know it's like he's not scoring it's like well do something else then yeah you know run into somebody uh we got willie did you like willie's comments no no i didn't he was asked about the concern yeah play the clip play the clip play the quick yeah i know still i guess relatively early 16 games in but how concerned are you with where things are at um you know we have been playing you know good and bad at certain points I mean, we just got to sharpen those things up, and I think we'll be good. So not really worried.

I mean, we can score. So, yeah, without the puck, we just got to be better. What's the big deal, really? That's exactly. We might as well just say it was a big deal. You know, poor Joe Thornton, his legendary career. And I remember Joe in, like, the playoffs fighting,

Ryan Gatslap off the opening face off, trying to, like, get inspired. Obviously, he cares, obviously a competitive guy. But there's that Amazon clip where he's like, yeah, we're in first. there it is yeah and like we hung on to that because it was like such a sign of like just because things are going good doesn't mean you don't need a jerk of the collar once in a while and it feels like that with will it's like yeah well we can score it's like okay the standards

higher than that here like you can't get over the hump in the playoffs you know the fine details it comes down to you should be upset that you're nowhere near the standard the standard If you are one of the top scoring teams and you look like that, like that's a concern. Well, and anyone can score if you don't play defense and you just cheat and go that way. Problem is they score more that way. They have given up the second most goals in the National Hockey League. Only the Blues have given up more, two more.

62 goals, the Blues have given up, the Leafs have given up 60. Stink. The Leafs have scored 59, though. I think that's the third most in the league. And they're minus one. And they've scored the third more. he's got a broobie's got to break some bad habits here that have kind of plagued them throughout their i don't know seven eight years to break oh what a true sorry kip it takes time to break well it's time

time's up yeah it's now season in a got it two months in a win tomorrow night sammy would go a long way to no i won't say they're back bring you back i will not say A little bit. I would like them to win. It would kind of slow it down a little bit. Don't read into anything like that. My, we're backs are, it's going to take a while. We're going to take a lot.

I got a little horned up after the Utah game. We're back. And then I watched those two games this weekend and we are absolutely not back. It's the opposite of back. I'm back. How soon will Joseph Woll get in? He played 36 minutes and gave up three goals. They can't get him back fast.

enough. I know. He did play? He did, yeah. Any reports? I just know they gave up three goals and half a game. Oh, here we go. He had hit in the bucket on the first shot. Yeah. Great. Just a solid shot to the head. See? Oh. Welcome back. Look at the time on the clock. 1840s. Welcome to the

HAL straight between the eyes. So, I mean, at least he's in game action. There you go. We've got some highlights now. Oh, here we go. Got a full pack. What a pro. Yeah. Jake. Oh, yeah, he's crushed. Both him and Stolars came in as one of the better duels in the National Hockey League. Like this was supposed to be a strength. One of my positives.

A rock of a Tannum. Yeah. Marley's logo is gorgeous. This is one of the positives, though, is that they're not bad goaltenders. I actually think they have good goaltending. No, they're talented guys. So I don't, you know, like that's one thing I genuinely believe will get better this season. Stolars needs less work and they need a better option.

Any part of you that Stollars needs, a little competition too, fiery guy. Like that, like the competition for him may make him a little better. I just, I just think at his age right now over the last 10 years of his career, it's just it's so new on how to deal with

this, how to be looked upon as a number one goalie, how to get yourself out of a funk. Like, it's all brand new. Whatever he's going through, he's going through for the first time in his career. Remember that. Yep. Absolutely right. Okay.

It's been an hour on the Leafs, and we've solved nothing. That's for sure. There's no easy answers. Not even close. But... Are you sure about that? They do say misery loves company, so we'll go heavy with the Oilers in the next hour. Another uplifting topic.

Rob Brown, former national hockey leaguer, does a great job as an analyst for the Evanton Oilers. We'll join us next as we go from one misery to another. Edmonton O'Aler's talk coming up next.