Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Diminishing Defencemen Options

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off with the big news that the Flames have pulled the trigger on a Chris Tanev trade, sending him to Dallas. They get into Calgary's return in the deal, if the Leafs missed out and which right-handed defencemen the team should pivot their focus to. Later, a chat about Jo Woll returning to the net tonight after 85 days since his last start and Sheldon Keefe gets a $25k fine for his outburst. Finally, Coyotes' analyst Craig Morgan (32:25) sets the stage for tonight's game between Arizona & Toronto, the Leafs' odd inability to beat the Yotes at home, what's gone wrong for Arizona during this recent 12-game losing streak, the latest in the organization's search for a new arena and who will be available at the deadline. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

here we go it's a real kipper and born show we are live on Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. You can always download us wherever you get your pod. Texas 590, 590. It's Thursday. Not Off the Rails Friday like I thought it was on Wednesday. It can be sort of Off the Rails Thursday. We can work our way Off the Rails this week if you want. We can do a lot of things.

You know why? Because it's Leap Day today. Doesn't exist this day. You can do anything. You can break laws. Doesn't exist. Leap Day. Right? Are you under the impression... What, Sammy? Go ahead. I'm tangled up over here, boys.

Just don't fall, Sammy. I got all this stuff going on. Don't spill anything. Sammy's having a tough week. I am having a tough week. Any updates on your car? My car is done, I think. It's just not in good shape. Crashed my head in the boards.

Concussion, yeah. Poisoned myself with chili. I made chili, and my guts are ravished, boys. It's been a horror show all day. And then Chris Tanov gets traded. It's just been a tough week. If Sammy disappears from the screen, he's

got the runs. You know what? You're right. What coach was it that threw one of his players? Oh, was it Daryl Sutter talking about Jonathan Huberto? It was like his second game there. They're like, where did Huberto go? And he's like. Yes.

Yeah. He actually used the H or the S, H word. He did. Yeah. He went to take a shot. I won't do that on national television. I know you both hate this day in history. There's not a few things you hate more, both of you. I'm really proud that our show does not really do this day in history.

I know you both of you. I'm really proud that our show does not really do this day in history. I know, you both hate it. But on this day in Leafs history, the Maple Leafs acquire Nick Kiprios and Wayne Presley from the New York Rangers for Bill Berg and Sergio Mameso. So there you go, buddy. On this day. Blockbuster. That's a compliment. I think those are good players you got traded for.

You didn't get traded for a bag of pucks. No. Not a conditional eighth round pick. All serviceable guys. Yeah. Right? They could do hockey. Yeah.

So technically that was like seven years ago, right? Can we say that? That trade was seven years ago? The last seven. The last seven. February 29th. Yes. Yeah.

So how, as a Toronto guy, what was the feeling when you got the call that you got traded to the Leafs? Yeah, give us where were you, what happened? Yeah, I was in my apartment, 80th and Columbus. What a pad. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. You know, in 1994, so I get traded from Hartford. I was paying like $280 a month for rent in Hartford.

And then I go to the ranger dressing room and Messier's like, where are you living? And I said, I have no idea. He goes, you're going to live in the city. You're married? No. Okay, you're living in the city. I said, okay, cool.

Any idea, like, you know, what a ballpark? Give me a ballpark. Yeah, somewhere around three grand oh this is 1994 1994 that's like 15 grand right now so i got my good buddy brian noonan noodles to uh go have these on a on a second oldest building in new york City next to the Dakota. You know, the famous Dakota? Isn't that where John got shot? Was your apartment shared apartment bigger or smaller than Jerry Seinfeld? We almost had 2000 square feet.

You were 11. And like 25 foot ceilings. Oh, my God. I mean, good years. Yes. So I'm in this apartment. Hartford to that. Yes.

That's outhouse penthouse stuff. So I'm in this apartment by myself and I just, you get a call from Neil Smith. He goes, I had to make a couple changes and I traded you and I'm like, damn, I'm looking at a couple changes, and I traded you, and I'm like, damn, I'm looking at this apartment going, buh-bye. No. And he says, you want the good news?

I said, sure, you're going to go home. I'm trading you the Toronto Maple Leafs. Wow. And I'm like, then my heart sunk, right? It just sunk with like, okay this this is my childhood dream team right and it was like now everything became almost surreal so you went from hanging with madonna in downtown new york and then you're living with your parents in uh oh yeah pretty much yeah pretty much it's. It's just coming home.

I'll never forget leaving my parents' house to go to my first Toronto Maple Leaf practice at Maple Leaf Gardens. And people are driving down the DVP recognizing me and giving me the thumbs up. It was like... Wow. Now you're in a city where they truly, truly recognize you. And New York's great, too. Don't get me wrong.

Different type of great. No, listen. You're six in line behind the Yankees, the Mets, the Giants. Right? As much as Elias Pettersson wants to go there, it's not the best. So technically, though, are we working for free today? You know, I did read something about this. Are you one of those guys that believes that this is an extra day on the calendar?

Sure, I have a yearly salary. Today's an extra day. I'm making a lower per day rate this year. What are we, Doug McClain now on our show? That was a hot, hot button issue in my group chat this morning with guys being like, I shouldn't have to work today. It doesn't count. So there you go.

You're not the only ones that's talking about it. All right. When you do what you love, you're never working. You're never working. Oh, very nice. Thank you. Very nice. You know who's got to go to work tonight?

The Toronto Maple Leafs. It's game day on our Leaf edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne show, and we're going to be working the game tonight. We are. Seven o'clock puck drop. Yeah, we're... 6.30 pregame. The show starts drops. Yeah. We're six 30. It's in nine seconds where it's literally up in less than two and a half

hours. So this shows two hours long for hopefully you'll have time to get us something to eat or what do we do now? Like snacks is an issue again. Pick something up for us. Okay. We're going to live. All right.

We'll get some water. This man needs his snacks. He needs his snacks. It's through the gut. My whole life is through the gut. Maybe there'll be some yearlings waiting for him. My whole life was coming out of my gut. More important than where Chris Tanev ended up

getting traded. Chris Tanev, that's right. The biggest news of the day. Everybody's waiting. Everybody's waiting for our thoughts or your thoughts,my's thoughts and i'll throw my two cents in as well but uh before we touch on toronto arizona big trade last night at least the biggest fish out there the defenseman that was on the top of everyone's list is traded unfortunately for a lot of leaf fans it wasn't to the blue and white best thing to do i think is to start with the most passionate opinion

in the room on this samuel yeah yeah i like it hurts yeah hurts he actually really is bothered by this i i you know i'm reading a lot of what people are saying about just fans in general, about them not getting Chris Tanev and a lot of, oh, he's 34, he's a UFA, he's this, he's that. He's also really good and a perfect fit. And if I'm a Flames fan, I think I'm a little bit underwhelmed by what they got back. He is the number one option at a trade deadline. He's a right hand shot there's multiple

teams that are wanting him that are covening his services i i would have happily traded the first round pick to get him i i know that's probably a controversial opinion but it's just you're trying to win in five years or you're trying to win this year he's perfect and it's a tough blow for leaf fans and i'm surprised that people are trying to sort of you know gloss over it a little bit just like they're coping a bit they'll be like ah he's hurt all the time he's old he's also perfect and he would have just been he would have made this team so much better fellas yeah i like the argument about the fit thing for the leafs like uh you know bunkus and i have been intermittently on the air together for a lot of years now and the one complaint with the leafs decor is that

it never quite fits you can like the pieces but you don't have lefty-righty and PKPP. He was a fit for the Leafs, and so it is a significant loss, even if you don't think the player himself was worth what would have been, let's call it a 23rd overall pick or something next year for the Leafs. So, yeah, Dallas gets him for 1.25, and frankly, that puts them in the conversation with best decor and with Vegas, to me, in the West, among cup contenders. Yeah, and they're going to go get another conversation with best D core and with Vegas, to me, in the West. Among cup contenders.

Yeah, and they're going to go get another D. They've made it real clear. Dallas will. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, they wanted two. They're already loaded back there. They wanted two. No, no, no, they're not loaded. They still need some testis.

I really like Harley. I like that Hockenpah. Obviously, Kyskinen, Lindell. Yeah. Now Tanev. And they want one more. But I told you guys a long time ago, you want to think about winning championships,

you need to be in depth with eight or nine of these guys. Not six. Guys get hurt. Fillers need to come in. But the thing is, Kip, sorry to interrupt, but I like the Leafs 7, 8, 9 guys. I feel like they're serviceable. Like you can plug in whether it ends up being Benoit, Giordano, Lagasin.

Yeah, I don't agree with you at all. I think they're so weak back there. One of Benoit or Giordano is likely out to start playoffs. Benoit? You think Benoit is in the sixth then? All day long. I did too actually. All day long.

Okay, so Giordano's probably out. I did too actually. All day long. Okay. So Giordano is probably out. That's a nice seven to come in. I got Benoit in my four right now. Yeah. No, you're right. Which probably isn't the best thing. Yeah.

That in and of itself is probably not awesome. You mentioned earlier the week about the sort of, no, I don't know how you worded it, but the half measures thing in terms of what they've done with the top pairing. To me, Chris Tanev was the only full measure on the market. Yeah, now it's going to be talk yourself into Labushkin. This is a guy that can legitimately play over 20 minutes a night on a top pair, shown that he can do it with an offensive guy

in Quinn Hughes, done it in Calgary. Now everybody else is like, oh, great, Labushkin. Well, we saw that. How'd that end? First round exit. See, I'm with you uh i'll put on a leaf hat i'll put on his booster club yeah hat for a second i'm extremely disappointed that the least didn't get chris tan of me too there's not a team and i include dallas that needed him more than the Toronto Maple Leafs. Good argument.

So now it's plan B. Yeah. I imagine if I'm Bradtree Living and I'm listening to this show, which I'm sure he does every day. Every day. I'm sure he is thinking, like, look, this was not what you guys thought it was where you could have just given them that first and that was it. Like, very possible that they said we're only doing it for minted or we're only doing it for you know like because it's toronto that leaf tax i i believe though and you know we've

talked about uh maybe some friction between calgary and Bradtree living, but I also believe that there was a chance for the Leafs to still get Tanev, and maybe it was all things being equal, it's a second rounder and this and this, but for you, the Toronto Maple Leafs, you only get them if it's a first. And that's to Sammy's point where you go okay um you weigh out to 22nd or 23rd first round draft choice so every scout that I've talked to so far tells me that between 18 and 32 it sinks it's no yeah it's a coin toss but Between those players. But it sinks. Yeah. It sinks.

So on a decent draft, 18 to 32, this draft would be like mid-second any other draft, any other better draft. So we are talking about a devalued later first round pick than in other draft years. So weigh that out the only thing i'm hoping for leaf fans is that if he didn't spend it on tan if he's gonna spend it somewhere else because he needs help well can we if i can throw to a clip um because Brody and Riley are playing together again tonight,

and Keith was asked about this, and he gave an extremely honest answer that plays right into the conversation we're having. So, Derek, if you could play clip five for us, it would be great. Yeah, you talk through all the different options that we have, which you've got six lefties again here tonight. We're in a jam right now, right? With Lilligan being out and put Timmons in that, you know, being out as a right shot.

Sort of just having those righties kind of lets things sort of fall into place. Now, when you have the lefties, it jams things up. You look at Brody's situation. To me, he played better on the left side of late. But we're in a jam right now. So we talked through all the different options, and ultimately when you're in a jam like this, you just have to fall on what has worked for you over time.

Maybe it's not going the best right now, but it's worked well for us. Benoit McCabe we know has worked really well for us. So splitting that up, we don't know if that really helps our cause. How many times did he say jam there yeah well it's one of those things where he's almost like let's say our power play wasn't working we don't have good power play players here's why we're playing bad guys you know like it's just like you don't have a different choice really so you know at least have six left shot guys ari Arizona has played six right shot D this year. They've got four right shotters tonight. I mean, maybe this is just more of a,

let's dump on Kyle Dubas again for a second, but where over the last few years is your stockpiling of right D? Buddy, Connor Timmons. Okay. Connor Timmons. Connor Timmons. Connor Timmons and he's hurt and you have no other options in your organization

in a year that you're supposed to be contending for the Stanley Cup. Are you kidding me? Like where's the attention to detail over the last few years, Kyle, to have had a better balance of right-handed D in your system? Yeah, I guess Lilligren's kind of been the only one

that you've been waiting on to come along, and then every year you're picking up a new one at the deadline, like Levushkin coming over. And now you've got to put Brody on a side that you know is a disaster. You're setting him up to fail. Going back, he says you lean on old things and I get that as a coach. When you're the coach,

what else are you supposed to do? And I don't blame him for doing it. Everyone likes Benoit McKay. But we're all watching it. And it's just, minus eight combined last game? It's just not a situation that's a tenable one to me. Yeah, no it's just not a situation that's a tenable one to me. Yeah, no, it's not.

And so that hurt makes the Tanev stuff. That's why. An extra little bit. It's just I can't imagine how much better immediately they are with Tanev. I'm just hoping that Bradtree Living didn't waste too much time focusing in on trying to get from November for Zdorov and Kristanov. And someone told me the other day that he actually thought

there might be a chance that he could get Hannafin. And I hope he just didn't waste all his time on Calgary and he didn't work on some other things here because it's getting crunch time here. And he needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat right now for some D. Bad luck that all the available D that the Leafs need were on the team he's coming from. That did not fall in their favor.

Do you, how much of the the like if they offer a first they get them they they forego the the the toronto tax for that kipper like i'm asking i don't know how big them not wanting to deal with toronto was a factor in this but it feels like if they give up the first they probably get them no i believe that's the case yes i do i think well first of all like if you turn it down and that that word gets out that the leafs offered a first and you took a second and a prospect from dallas you're you're you may never work again if you're craig conroy so also retained you know right so yeah i do believe that if they would have gone that deep they weren't willing to do that which means what they've got something up their sleeve moving forward here i

guess quick question what's new jersey doing this team is going to finish oh yeah it's part of that trade two points out of a playoff they retained uh in exchange for a fourth rounder in 2026 like are they not gonna get competitive here do they know they have 8.3 million in cap space are they just punting on the season because hamilton's hurt no maybe they're like hey see how much we're helping you here craig want to give us marks from now or cheaper so the amount i don't hate the idea though there's some futures the amount of conversations over probably the last six or eight weeks that have included third teams is probably 85 of the conversations everyone needs so like you can sit there and say okay new jersey just gave up cap space but it's everything's an asset yeah even the money that they took you can move that money

out you could you could do another deal and you can move that money back out with another third team you've got a fourth rounder you can play with now so there's a lot of that juggling going on sure you could in fact attach a fourth to a pick on retention for someone you want you know and to get that money back in a way correct yeah so there's a lot of balls in the air right now and i think uh you know the leafs should be at the forefront right now of of trying to come up any names coming to you off the top on where the leafs can go for a right shot d listen i'm just rooting for seattle to tank hard and hoping that they can. Larson.

No, that's not happening. I like Borgen. Borgen's my guy. It's not happening. No? No, no. They're happy with their D. They're happy with their goaltending.

What do you got? You got a name? David Savard. Yeah. Half measure. Half measure. Nah, but it's a good half measure. It is a half measure.

I mean, but there's no available. That's what I mean. I'm just sour. I'm sour. He's got term, and his name's out there. Right-handed D, heavy guy, experienced. I like it. Now, do you have to go bigger?

You wrote an article today, and I did skim through it. Thank you. But it did mention like three or four things that the Leafs need to trade for or do. Yeah, both. Okay. You know, the handedness of their D needs to be addressed via trade. That's something they can't sort out themselves. But yeah, the rest of it was mostly.

So if that's the case, then I don't think like this can't be one of those trade deadlines for the Toronto Maple Leafs, in my opinion, where you just spend a fourth round pick and you bring in Labushkin. I would. That's where it's going, Kip. That's where this is going. It can't go there. The Leafs are going to get a third or fourth line forward,

a third pair D, and they're going to go, we like our guys. They've played that movie before. Yeah, we know how it ends. It ends in a fiery ball of death. It's a dark ending to the movie every year. I'm hoping that brad tree living can pull uh a three for three or just to change it up a little bit i think the team needs more than just one right-handed guy to come in especially if it's just a third pairing guy it's funny because

tree has been on the record saying he's a tweaks guy he doesn't believe you can remake your roster at the deadline i mean we know what happened last year with the leafs here where they did remake their roster um but people say it didn't work so but doesn't mean it wouldn't it's not like they there are uh no concerns in other areas of the roster. Right now, do you have a definitive answer for me when I say who's your second-line centerman in game one of the playoffs? No, I don't. I don't.

I don't think it's Max Domi. Do you think it's John Tavares? I mean, I think it probably is. I don't want it to be I mean I think it probably is I don't want it to be but I think it probably is because I'm not confident that they're going to do something big enough to go get a second line center it's I mean Elias Lindholm moved Sean Monaghan moved you know there's not a ton of available good second line centers Adam Henrik yeah can you is that just another rental though unfortunately so i like henry can think he helps the leafs a lot i think they look a lot better with him but i just i don't love like a long-term you know trade a whole bunch and sign henry like i don't think

he's a long-term solution but would love him as a rental what What's he going to cost? Probably seconds that they don't have? He's having a good year. No, I think a first. He cost a first? A first. He's only, I mean, he's got 38 points in 57 games, and he's only minus two playing on that Ducks team. If I go back to David Savard, could you do something bigger with the Montreal Canadiens?

Would you like Josh Anderson here? Or no? I like what you're thinking about. I like the idea of... How about Gallagher? Yeah, I like Gallagher, and I think he's something they could use. He's a left winger. You like Gallagher coming in with David Savard?

Now we're talking about a big, significant trade. I just have a hard time believing Habs and Leafs are going to make a trade like that. I don't know what that is. I don't know. New management on both sides. Not a lot of scars. No, it's just the Leafs and the Habs. I guess the Placanets one was the last one they did.

Second rounder. That was weird. But anyways. Anyways, we'll keep an eye on that as it progresses here. Yeah. Do you want to talk about Joseph Wall playing goalie tonight? Sure. That's a positive.

Do you want to hear the clip about it? Very much. Okay. Here's Keefe Do you want to hear the clip about it? Very much. Okay. Here's key clip one on Joe Wall starting. Joseph's preparing to play. So he looks good, feels good. We'll give him every minute that we can. He'll get through the day and all that kind of stuff.

And the plan is for him to play and be activated tonight before the game. So that is the plan. But as I said, with any player coming off of the IR, you give them as much time as possible to make sure that they're good. But that is the plan. They are so guarded. I hate that. I hate it.

He's playing. Is that not the funniest clip? Any other coach in the league. Hey, who's Joe Walgo's tonight? Yeah. Next question. it. He's playing. Is that not the funniest clip? Any other coach in the league. Hey, who's... Joe Wall goes tonight. Yeah. Next question. Yeah, he's playing.

He's the goalie tonight. Joe Wall is the starter. Like, you know, what's going to... And let... Like, barring getting hit crossing the road to his car today, he's in. You know, like, barring something... Of course. We always assume any lineup decision made in the morning is barring them getting through

the day healthy, but all they're doing is going home to nap and eat pasta. Hey, have you ever not been hurt, like, jumping in bed? I got hurt playing two touchdowns before a game. Slipped? I get it. Barring something happening, he's the guy. So he's playing tonight is what i believe that corporate politician jargon

was that jargon that uh verbal you know what yeah so anyway joe wolf back baby 85 days between starts for joseph wool i believe yeah 85 yeah that's almost three months of days yeah that's a long time it is i'm very excited to see him and I think he's starting in the right situation. Yeah. Right? Coyotes have lost 13 straight games. Should be able to defend decently well. No Clayton Keller tonight either. Is that right? Day-to-day.

Yeah, day-to-day. No, I don't think he's playing. No, he's not going to play. Okay. Okay. All right. Wow, I don't know. I mean, barring something happening.

Barring slipping on a bar of soap. I don't know. Barring a nap in a cryogenic chamber today and him getting it figured out by game time. Sprains a finger, tying a shoelace. Yeah, so a good place for Wall to make his return tonight and a good, I don't know, get it sorted out here before the deadline and get a good couple looks of him. If his ankle breaks off,

maybe you can get someone else before the deadline still. Yeah, I just think he's really good. and i think it's good to have him back he's your number one goalie he's your starting goalie and samson i was giving them and and martin jones gave them a valiant effort over 85 days where they kept them above they kept them afloat martin jones 907 and it starts this year having them back back, that's your starting goalie back. It's good. Yeah, let's hear how good it is to have Wohl back in flip two. Beautiful. Yeah, it feels great.

Because you said how he played, but also you just know how hard the guys work to get himself ready, and especially probably the last three weeks or so, where he's right there. There's just one last little hurdle for him to get over uh so you want to get him back and he's important guy for our team and you want to you want to get him back in the net there you go he's back um also kelly yarn crock practicing there is no roster limit after the trade deadline so presumably if they brought

him back they would have to move someone in the next eight days so i would imagine cali yarn croc's finger is going to get an extra eight days to heal here before we call it a hunch the next thing i don't know why i'm leading this so hard today but the next thing i wanted to bring up was the the fine for keith in his comments this morning did you 25k thoughts first of all how can you get fined only 5k for burying somebody on the ice from behind but you can get 25k for berating the ref on the ref it's it's excessive what's it the fine yeah 25 grand that's a lot i you know but you know how many snacks i could buy for our regional games tonight with $25,000. Excuse my ignorance here, and this is a very ignorant question for someone in my profession.

Do you think that just comes out of Sheldon's bank account? No. Leafs pay that for sure. No, no. Because they're not on the hook in the cap. So it doesn't really matter. So you think MLSC or whatever whatever the if it was higher option like but if mlse turns around to sheldon say we're not paying for it he's got to pay for it yeah if they

want to be if they want to be nice guys have his back i'm sure they'll be like yeah stop doing that somebody in mlse i'll go up to the 300 levels and go to one of the beer stands and be like hey give me that 25k and then we'll uh i'll go pay for it's fine's fine. But you know how I feel about, like, that it was a useless outcry to begin with for me. If I'm MLSC, I don't need it. Sheldon, you want to go and have a temper tantrum after we've won seven in a row? Then you're paying that thing, not me.

Let's listen to Sheldon as you weighed in. He actually today, instead of just completely skipping the questions, he weighed in on his outburst and clip four. Well, all I'll say is, you know, I think there is a fine line between being the voice for the players at different times to try to be the voice so that they don't have to be. They can focus on playing. But really all I'll say is, you know is my job as a coach is to really make sure

I'm focused on the next moment and what comes next. And I don't feel like I lost control or anything like that the other night, but I'm not focused on the right thing. My job is to be focused on the right thing. Players' jobs is to be focused on the right thing. So I'll be better in that area. It's a chance for me to reflect and grow from it. And that's really all I'll say from say from i think we can move on hey it's got to start

that image of him being a hothead and not having great relationships with the officials that rehabilitation has to start somewhere so i'm fine with that call. I don't know if it's a message to the league and the officials. I need to be better. I need to grow. Is it an olive branch? No, it's apology culture. We've all learned the things that people say now. No, no, no, no, no.

This is strategic. This is strategic. This is from, I don't know if it was from Brendan or Brad Tree Living, calling him in the office and going hey sheldon you're gonna start walking it back you're killing us right now right so he said all the points he wanted to say i didn't think i lost control and that i'm the voice for the players and then he said the thing he had to say which was i'm gonna reflect reflect and grow from this and what else do we say in this day and age? I'm learning. I'm listening. You know, I'm listening now. I'm not.

This is all the, you know, I'm going to try to be better. That's not who I am. The voice for the players, not buying that. I like it in theory. I don't think he's been that. But I like the idea that the coach does that. I played professional hockey for 12 years. You know how many times I turned around after my coach absolutely ripped an official and i said hey thanks for having my back i was thinking the same thing hey he does look

like a dope yeah he is the dumbest guy i've ever seen it's just them trying to get the next call yeah that's all it is but hey or is this not the theme of sheldon's coaching the trying to win every game trying to get the next call without the long-term vision of how do people look at the game? I can't think of a worse way to try to get the next call when it's always just about ripping them. But it does work if you're not always ripping them. It does work, sorry, if you're not always ripping them.

Yes, you're right, but it has to be yes you're right but it has to be at the right time and it has to be on the right call and i get it was a phantom call i i'm with you sheldon on a bs call on mitch marner yeah but when you go that hard you gotta go that hard on on a different game than down game 57 yeah no i agree with you there no anyways um do you want to hit a break talk about the coyotes yes we do need to get to craig morgan yep coyote beat writer with uh the phoenix sports uh is going to join us next and we'll get a feel on where they're going between now and the trade deadline literally or within the season both okay both salt lake yeah salt lake to the basement to the draft lottery all right craig morgan when we return don't go away more real kipper and born after

these words breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliot Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Boren Show. Let's go to Craig Morgan now who covers the Arizona Coyotes for Phoenix Sports and also does a great job with the NHL Network. So, Craig, the Maple Leafs have not gotten a home regulation win against the Coyotes since October 17, 2002, when Trevor Kidd was in the net.

Now, as the Coyotes come in tonight's game on a 13-game losing streak, is there a danger that the Coyotes are overconfident tonight? Wow, what a setup setup welcome to the show it is a it's a bizarre stat first of all but then when you look at the situation the coyotes are in right now and without clayton keller as well i mean i got a feeling that that streak is ending tonight maybe it'll go to ot and they'll get a point and we'll keep this thing going but things couldn't be worse for the Coyotes right now and not not to mention all the stuff that's swirling off the ice but this team just has hit an unbelievable

tailspin right now the second longest since they've been in Arizona just two games shy of that record and it's crazy to think that on january 1st this team was in a playoff spot now there's something like 17 points off the playoff pace it's insane so craig why why like bad goaltending where do you where do you pin this on uh the the fall off the cliff here this season so many things i don't want to pit it on one i can't ignore the fact that they haven't won a game since the press release came out of Salt Lake City. Yeah. Yeah. Announcing that they were ready for expansion. And oh, by the way, they also have an arena ready for an NHL team right away. The Coyotes haven't won since that release came out, but obviously that's not all that's at play here. NHL teams need to be able

to block that out as much as it can be a factor in the room. The goaltending has definitely fallen off. Conor Ingram was playing at an elite level. He hasn't been able to sustain that recently. He was actually out for a couple games with injuries. This team doesn't defend well. That's been a weakness all season. There's so many things that have fallen apart during this stretch. I don't want to pin it on one thing.

It just feels like a total collapse. They're not getting secondary scoring. As I said, they're not defending well they're taking bad penalties they're giving up goals in the first 10 minutes of games they lead the league in goals against in the first 10 minutes of games throw all that together and you have just this perfect storm and this really ugly losing streak do you want to stay on uh off ice first or go but go on the ice up to you uh no i i gotta dive in because you know you're you're connected here so what what's the deal here on on their ownership group and how long does gary betman give alex to find land a rink money like come on this has to come to a head

we're we're all sick and tired of it. Yeah, I think it's fair to expect that this is, honestly, I'll go back to the Tempe vote. When the Tempe vote failed, I walked out of that meeting. Honestly, I was at an event that was supposed to be a celebration for the Coyotes. They were that confident they were going to win it. And then you saw what happened with the vote. When I walked out of those headquarters, I thought it was over. I thought the Coyotes were done in Arizona.

A couple days later, the league said it was going to give Alex Morello a little more leash. We all know that they've been pursuing a couple pieces of land. They looked at a piece of land in Mesa, and I don't think that's dead, but I think that everybody knows by now they're focused on a piece of land, state trust land in Northeastoenix adjacent to scottsdale it's supposed to be on the agenda for the arizona state land department next month march 14th and we're hearing that there will be an actual auction for this land probably around mid-june now he's got to win that auction right it seems like the league is giving him this one final chance i say it seems like because who knows what's happening behind closed doors. But, you know, we heard all the talk of the All-Star game and then

it went quiet. It feels like they're going to give Alex Morello this one last chance. I'm surprised, I have to be honest, that they're giving him another chance. But this has to be it. If Alex can't land this piece of land to build the arena on, they at least have to say goodbye to this ownership group and move on, whether plan B is trying to find another local owner or the nuclear option of going to Salt Lake City. Well, so let's say they get this land. Let's say he wins the auction.

Then what? You know, then you're going to play in Mullet Arena for two years while they build? Would that be tenable? And you say two years. It's probably at least three years and that's that's an important question is the league really willing to allow this to happen for another three years we know ever everybody feels about mullet arena it was okay as a temporary solution for one two three seasons but now we're talking five what happens if there are delays in construction and it's actually six? That to me is it's shocking.

But I also wonder, and I'm sure you guys are aware of the tweets that Richard Rodier put out a while ago. Does the league have the grounds, legal grounds to force a sale? I don't know what's in place in terms of agreements. Is there a proxy agreement in place? I don't know if the league has the ammunition to say, you have to sell Alex Morello. And I can tell you from on the ground here,

Alex does not want to sell this team. Has he paid all his bills? He has. I know that that was a problem in Glendale. There's some bad narratives out there, of course. People think they got kicked out of Glendale because they didn't pay their bills. That's not why they left. They left because they wouldn't sign a long-term lease.

So Glendale said it had to move on. I have the Glendale city manager literally on the record saying that and said it to me again recently. But, yeah, that was a problem as well. There have been multiple issues here, right? Tempe didn't work out. They had a deal that they were working on with Arizona State University before that, but they walked away because, among other things, they couldn't put a sportsbook on ASU land. So this is like the third go-round with trying to find an arena solution for this ownership group,

not to mention groups of the past. So, you know, let's say they are to get a rink. The idea for most teams is that once they get a rink, they want to be good when that rink is built. You know, the Calgary Flames kind of have a few-year range here. The Coyotes have 3,964 draft picks. I just checked. That's the exact number.

What is the plan? Like, are they going to start getting aggressive and trying to win? Is there a deadline for them to try to be good at hockey? I think so. And listen, I believe in what Bill Armstrong's doing, actually. I have seen rebuilds here in the past where they just abandoned shit midstream. We're going to rebuild. Oh, you know what?

We need to win right now. And it never worked out. I mean, we saw what the John Chayka era, while they brought in Taylor Hall and Phil Kessel, and they didn't have anything up the middle at center ice so you knew this team wasn't going to sustain any success bill armstrong wants to build sustainable success he's obviously a scout by trade and he wants to acquire as many drafts assets as possible both to try and get high quality players but a volume of players play the numbers game I believe in that approach and I think if you look at the sort this doesn't play out always on the

ice but if you look at the rankings of prospect systems the Coyotes are a top 10 system and they have an insane amount of picks in the first two and three rounds over the next three drafts as well so they're going to have even more I think as you start seeing some of those players filter into the ahl and then the nhl you can see okay here's the next season in tucson you're going to see a bunch of those guys so they'll be one step away how long it takes for them to establish themselves as nhl players i don't know if that will sync up perfectly with the arena right but that's their hope at least we're talking to to Craig Morgan, who does a great job covering the Arizona coyotes at Phoenix sports and the NHL network. So Craig,

Bill Armstrong trade deadline. What can we expect? Are there, there are some names. There are some quality hockey players that I think other teams would be interested in. Got a couple of names for us. Yeah.

I mean, the obvious ones are Matt Da and jason zucker both on expiring contracts this year i'd be surprised that both of those guys are here after the trade deadline beyond that honestly i'm not sure that the coyotes are going to be terribly active i don't know that they're willing to move a guy like alex kerfoot or corral de melca unless they get a fantastic offer and And then I know there's, there's been talked the last couple of seasons about guys like Nick Schmaltz, Lawson Krause.

I don't think either of those guys is on the table. Honestly, if there's a spectacular offer, you have to listen. GMs always have to listen, but I don't think either of those guys is on the table. I don't think their core guys are on the table. Interesting that you mentioned Matt Dumba. Last time I checked, shot right, played defense. If there's a Leaf fan out there asking you, could he help the Leafs?

What's your answer? I'm curious what it would look like in the right role for Matt Dumba. Listen, the offensive side of his game that we saw earlier in his career, I think that's gone. But when he came in here, a lot of people, I talked to Mike Rousseau about him, talked about how well he played

the second half of the season defensively for the Wild. Honestly, we've only seen that in spurts. Matt Dumba hasn't had a great season. It feels like he's trying to do too much. Maybe he's been put in a role where he has to do too much here. But as you mentioned,

he's a right-handed guy. He's got a lot of experience. He's a big hitter who can skate. He can probably help a team in the postseason. And teams are always looking for help on the blue line. Hey, Craig, great stuff, man. We really appreciate your time. Enjoy the game tonight.

And we look forward to having you back on soon. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, Craig. Appreciate it, man. Craig Morgan. So they're not staying at that mullet arena for five or six years. That's not happening. No.

No. So here's what we're saying, then, is there's no alternative to moving from Arizona. Whether they come back to Arizona.zona no there's a solution what's this oh what is it yeah you just move in with the phoenix suns of the nba so why has this not been done what is it i mean i know the rink is not built for hockey too bad we didn't have a guy on that would maybe would have known the answer to that. It would need to be fixed up.

Yeah. You just fix it. Whatever it needs for hockey, just do it and put the money in there in the short term. It's a band-aid. While you start building a new arena well it's not that hard yeah even that probably takes time so you're

in mullet next year while they do the renos or whatever sure part of the year sure part of it but no the just fix the rink and go back to 10 12 15 000 fans you know jason zucker left winger makes 5.3 million that guy loves hockey loves to score hates nick cousins uh those things he i don't know really what much about his but he was a good player for a while with the wasn't he on the cup teams with uh penguins he was there right am i remembering that correctly no don't maybe it would have been after. Maybe after. I feel like he was after.

Okay. But no, he can play. Yeah, 32 years old. He's got eight goals and 23 points this year and 48 games. You know. Not much there for me. You know, looking through their lineup, trying to pick through parts. You know, would Nick Bustad at 2.1 million play center for you?

I like him. Okay. That would be a guy. This year and next at 2.1 million play center for you? I like him. Okay. That would be a guy. This year and next at 2.1? I think the Leafs should give up a fourth rounder for him. Do you like him more than David Kampf? Yeah. It's kind of the same money, yeah.

I do. I think he's bigger and heavier. Well, definitely more offensive upside. Yeah. I just still have visions of... 13 goals, 31 points this year crushing well listen he'd have crushed rempe or anything wherever you think the biggest guy in the league is at that i mean after the whistle when he didn't know it was coming yeah he probably would have got

hey so i was watching uh some clips for our show tonight um talking about the leafs and whatever so i watched the game winner where gudis that's the pick and he's in Joe Wohl's face last year and whatever. I mean, playoff hockey is different. The pace of that play, the back and forth, the energy, it's jarring to watch it. There is nothing out there between now and the end of the trade deadline will get you close to getting a lineup

that can go toe-to-toe or shoulder-to-shoulder with the Florida Panthers. But, no, there's nothing. Trust me. Can't have every part of it. They're mean and they're... You like them too much. They're not that good.

Oh, my gosh. They're really good. What are you talking about? They're so good. They're tough. And they're real tough. They're not manufactured tough. I know. I know it i like them too they're a 700 winning percentage team you know they're not running away with the league is my point you need to go and try to just kind of

get closer you just gotta get a little bigger and stronger still for this leaf team to think that they can go and beat the Florida Panthers. And there's still time for that. You're never going to get you're never going to go shoulder to shoulder with them because at the end of the day you don't have to. You have way better scores. The Leafs have to win against Florida with great goaltending

a great power play and stay out of the streets. Right? And speed. That's how you're going to beat Florida if you're the Toronto Maple Leafs. You're not going shoulder to shoulder, but get one or two other guys that can help you balance it a little bit. You need your superstars to shoot at the net a lot.

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To reiterate that every episode here. It's a wonderful spot. Pro Cobb's Bread on this show. Just get us three loaves. Chuck us a scone. I mean, I can boys, I don't get paid a ton, but I can afford the four bucks for a loaf. If you grab a loaf. Give me something tonight here. Is this just going to be a

cookie night for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Not a chance. Really? Buddy, four left-handed Ds. Joe Wohl's first six left-handed Ds. No Clayton Keller. This is like seven, eight, or nine goals, is it not, tonight? It's a cookie night.

You know what? It's that mindset for the Leafs that kills them. That's what kills them. I think Leaf Nation needs one tonight because they were really high seven in a row they know they were high and mighty feeling great puffing their chests out and the manner in which they lost on tuesday night to the golden knights shook humbling shook a few people to their core including myself so it'd be nice just they don't have to smoke them just beat them convincingly seven two no not even four two five two five-2 with an empty net? No. Against a team

that hasn't won in a month? Willie Nylander, OT winner? So, I'm predicting tomorrow's show they come in, they win 2-1. Kippers are like, ah, this team's no good. He is going to say that. No, I wouldn't say that. I'm all about the process. Oh, yeah, yeah. We'll judge the process tonight. And I am

looking forward to seeing Joe Walboys. It's been a long time and he's their best goalie. So, need him to get hot. Take it easy on just loading him up as being the savior here. He is their best goalie. He's their starting goalie. Doesn't need that pressure, Sammy. Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

The guy that doesn't have a phone is listening to Real Kipper and Bourne right now. Playing piano. Yeah. Domi, Nylander, and Bertuzzi. They need to be much better tonight. They need a much better game out of them. Two in a row, two stinkers in a row for me. Just start at 200 feet.

Right? They don't do that, bud. Yeah, they got to learn. They do have to learn. Everybody's got to learn. My whole article that you're talking about. Okay. Our thanks to Craig Morgan covering the Arizona Coyotes.

When we come back, Frank Cerevelli from DailyFaceoff.com to talk Canove and what's out there. Pettersson? Pettersson as well. He had some news on Pettersson, right? Oh, yeah. We're going to get into that and so much more when we return

as we go national next on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Don't go away.