Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Direction Disconnect

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' win over the Bruins in Boston. They discuss the implications in the reverse standings, the Leafs' response to Nikita Zadorov's hit on John Tavares, and Matthew Knies' power move. Then, Hockey Night in Canada's Craig Simpson (10:47) weighs in on how the team should approach the final 10 games of the season, the lasting impact of the Gudas/Matthews incident, the offseason plans for Anthony Stolarz, Joseph Woll and Craig Berube, and much more. Later, they chat more on Easton Cowan challenging Zadorov before opening up McKee's Midweek Mailbag to answer your questions! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Back to back game nights on our Leaf Edition hour of our show. The Real Kipper and Bourne Act. Season 5. I'm going to juggle today. We're not a show anymore. We're just an act. Here to entertain. We're live.

Wherever we are, we are live on Sports at 360. 590, the fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available, Spotify, Apple Podcast. And of course, YouTube, Nick Caprio's, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake, Shultz, Derek Brandeo with you for the next two hours. The Maple Leafs last night on the backs of Matthew Nyes with his two goals,

beat the Boston Bruins at the TD Garden last night, which sets up a New York Ranger Toronto Maple Leaf. And for the Leafs, let's just call it what it is right now tonight, a must lose situation. I mean, must lose. Yeah, 100%. but like last night kills him, Kip. They went into Boston and handed it to him.

Outplayed them. They stood up for one another. Someone fought Nikita Zedorov at Center Ice. Big win in late March. Why? Where has this been? Why? Why last night?

Okay. I think this group of guys last night are going to look Sammy in the eye and all his leaf lovers. and say, can we have a mulligan? What do you mean? Oh, they're going to win tonight, too. No, just for the whole season.

And we want to re-hit. Yeah, next year. Yeah, next season. Yeah, can we get a mulligan for this year? And Sam, he's going to tell him to... Are you big on mulligans, by the way? Three off the T, all day. All day.

I'll let you hit two off the first of you. Can the Leafs ask for a mulligan this season? A re-tooling, I'll retool you. No. No, no. What? No, what? No. Okay.

All right. Just looked to me like last night they wanted one. Yeah. I mean, listen, if we looked back at this time of year and you pretended it was any other year and you're like, my God, went into Minnie on a back-to-back, traveled overnight, beat Minnesota, you know, hung in there with Carolina, beat Boston in Boston. This team is ready for playoffs. They are clicking. Can't do it. Everything's great.

I don't know. I mean, over the however many years, the Leasman. I've watched him play a TD Garden. And I don't know what number of those games. It wouldn't have looked like an absolute buzzsaw when the Leafs are playing there. Every time they start a game there, it's shots and they're beat down. The crowd's going crazy. And even when the Leaf would win that TD Garden, it felt like a miracle that they would get out of there with a W.

And the first time ever that I was sitting down on my little TV set, and I'm like, you know what? I would like the Boston Bruins to do that job tonight, be the buzzsaw. They turned into the Leafs. That has to be their worst performance of the year. They were horrendous. I cannot believe how bad they were.

Were they tanking to get the Leafs to give them their pick? It was as bad as they could have looked. I can't believe how bad they were. Can't believe it. Yeah. If we look at that team still, we see that they are lacking some talent, right? Yes.

But they do have a reputational, season long of playing tough hockey and I don't know what really happened last night, but like that's kind of the team that we thought we'd see a year ago. Leaves are Bruins. Boston. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

So I don't know. A huge surprise if they slip out in La La La La La Ottawa in or Columbus in the east to take one of eight spots. Yeah. Yeah. But for the Leafs, as we've said this, before that the players, they play for themselves, they play for their future spots,

whether they believe it's still in Toronto or not. And I think we're looking around. We're seeing some teams still step up. The Rangers, I know, were horrible the other night, but they looked okay in the last week, week and a half, St. Louis and now the Leafs. Yeah. Yeah, the Boston Bruins, to your point,

32nd and Ozone Possession Time. The Leafs, that's the only team worse than the Leafs in the league. By expected goals are 27th. good team. I think they are going to fall out of playoffs. Too many good teams chasing them. But I will say, like last night did make me feel better about the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs in a few ways. I think Easton Cowan remains looking like a good player.

Matthew Nyes for all this talk about knee looked fantastic. And then even Dakota Joshua to me. Yeah. Who say what you want. Doesn't beat anyone up. But he seems to recognize that people are looking to him to show. show something at the end and he's trying. So, okay, those

are good things. The tank out of town scored last night is a killer. Well, thank God though. Well, yeah, but if you find a way to lose that game, like the Blackhawks won last night. Jets.

Florida Panthers won. St. Louis Blues one. Devils one. Predators one. Yeah, everyone behind you won. You gain nothing. But it was just But you also didn't lose ground to them in the tank off. I can't help but keep going back to what we talked about yesterday right at the end of the show when Sam Reinhardt is out for the Florida Panthers

for no reason. Lundell was out for no reason. And who are the two keys in that game last night? It's Matthew Nyes, who was excellent in that game. So much as so the coach talked about how great he was in the game. And it's Anthony Stolars who you just have the absolute green light to not play. He takes a shot in the throat, goes to the hospital, have to call up the emergency backup.

Any organization that realizes where they're at in the standings and what's at stake, he's not playing that game. You're putting in Hill to be in there. I'm shutting him down the whole season. You went to the hospital. You're done. You're done. You went to the hospital.

And it's just like they don't realize how bad they are and what position they're in here. Like the coach is still talking about it being a big win. This is what Kip was talking. when you said they're in, I love the line I'm using this for the rest of my career. He said at this point, you're independent contractors. Everyone is playing for their next contract, wherever it is, whatever. That includes, because you didn't fire the coach, the coach.

Yes. And that includes the GM. Yes. Who they need to finish with as many wins as possible. But to say it wasn't that bad. Okay. But there's no way that Brubay is thinking or Trees thinking that if we have a hot stretch to end this season here that we're going to keep our jobs.

There's no way they're thinking. But Ruby, you are your record as a head coach. And he will take it to the next team. Whatever they're feeling. is almost irrelevant at this point. You, whoever's making those decisions right now are probably making them for their pride

and less so on what we truly know is what's the best for the team. That's the problem. The best for the team would have been to unload a few more guys, sit a few more guys out, and try to get the fifth overall pick. And I know it. I just didn't want it to come in the form of

players looking like they've quit. And they're not doing that. And I didn't expect them too. But you got to... You can't make it easy for them to also steal unnecessary points for you. Yeah. The GM's job here is to try to keep them from doing that. I'm for the fake looking tank.

They're right there. They're right there. They're right there. Four points. They have 11 games. They have 10 games to drop four points. And it's just... It's malpractice to keep trying to win.

There's 10 games left. It's such a short time to do it. Just a few weeks. Get Act you all up here. Shut down knives. Act like a smart organization. I beg of you. If they get a chance to draft top five, it's a new face.

It's new blood. It's new hope. And by the time you want to be good in two, three years, they're relevant. Right? They're 21 and their third year. They're someone who's, you know. It'll help for sure. You know, rather than picking.

two, three years and then the kid's 18. Yes. And not only that, where's Austin Matthews and where's Willie? 33, 34 now before this guy is starting to feel good. Right. You can point to this kid. All right, it's a third year in his league. You should be helping us now.

Now, one thing I caught your reaction on, as I said, Matthew Nyes had a good night and you gave it a... Yeah. Well, let's listen to the coach first on Matthews Nye's performance last. night. I thought Matthew and I was really good tonight all around. You know, just that goal was a huge goal for us. Just the power

he presents and strength and skating that he can, I thought he was really good all night though for us. Did a lot of good things. Okay. And they had to perform for the mentors too, right? They send the mentors down there late March in Boston. They had to perform them too.

Show them what's up. The look that you caught when you sat. that was the look of don't ever mention that you're hurt or that you got something hiding okay it still bothers me that you could talk like that as if you need it as a safety net or something and then you could still look like you did overpowering uh low lie mason low right yeah like and that's a big defenseman. That's a big strong defenseman where you look, you made them look like a bag of feathers. Like, I didn't see a weak knee there.

Did you, I didn't see a guy favoring anything there. Did you? I saw a refrigerator going downhill. Like, just stop. That's so gross. Everybody. Not trade him, please. Everybody stop with a, he must be hurt.

Narrative for some of these guys. And really it should start with the player himself. Agreed. Okay, that's all. Yep, nope. I loved everything else. Love the shorthanded power. Yep.

The reminder of, hey, you watch that goal. That's why teams either called or the Leafs are inquiring on making a huge impactful trade if they move them because that's a wonderful example of what you could possibly be trading for or keeping him to build on the future. All right, let's welcome him in. Craig Simpson, voice of the. Toronto Maple Leafs all season long. Good friend of the show, a good listener. Zimmer, how are you, my friend?

I'm good. That looked like a young Nick Kippel. Oh, my. In junior. How young? Zimmer. Junior, exactly. He's beating everyone to the puck, out, muslin everyone.

And just great hands around. That was my first thought, Nick, when I watched. Oh, I appreciate it, pal. I appreciate it. That's a beer for sure. Next visit. We see each other. Just overall, I mean, so much talk around here, Simmer, about what kind of lineup should they be dressing and if it's in their favor to try to get a fifth overall pick, not.

But as a player, you know, and we've been in this situation, I've probably been in more than you being on, you know, contending teams, your career and winning cups. but just in terms of, you know, what is best for this organization moving forward? How would you handle it? Well, it's such a difficult dance, and, you know, I dealt with it my first two years in Pittsburgh, and we didn't have any success. So it's very different than this year,

and I've listened to you guys all year, and you talk about the expectations of, you know, the team that won the division last year in this motion, and now with 10 games left, it's hard to comprehend. So I don't think there is a script that you've sort of laid out. A lot of teams that are going through a strategic breakdown or reset have had the play in mind knowing, okay, we're not going to be a very good team this year.

I don't think that was the case at all. So I do think it's been fly by the seat of your pants going, oh, my gosh, you know, how did this happen? Where are we? I think that you do see it. And last night was probably the, the best example of it of players, as you said, Nick, independent contractors, but they're also teammates.

And I think what you saw last night with your mentors in the building is what you have to be to be an NHL player. And you've got to have damn pride about what you have to do and how you have to work every night to be a pro. You're not going to be going with your sister there or your father-in-law or your uncle or your grandfather like Brandon. Carlo and not do everything you can to be the best player you can be. And, you know, those are the instincts that get those 23 players to the NHL where some other

guys aren't able to find their way and get there. So that's what you're battling with. And, you know, as much as it, I know it pains Sammy to see, you know, where was this earlier on? And I don't think there's any question, guys, that, you know, the galvanizing movement of goodest on Matthews, you know, maybe if that did happen in November, that could have been, you know, a wide, eyes wide open reality for the players that we got to become a team. We got to learn how to play together.

And unfortunately, it's too little too late. But there's no question that it's had an effect on the, you know, whether you're being guilty into it or ashamed into it or whatever the motivator you're going, we got to play harder and we've got to play better. And, you know, the end result, guys, is what, points in five of the last seven, which you don't need right now. And tonight is another great example. So it is a quandary and it is a tough one to handle. But I just think it's the instincts of what you have to be as a player and say, you know, I stuck this year at times or we did as a team.

And last night just seemed to be a confluence of all the positives and goods that you'd hope you would have seen all throughout the year with this. group. So, and we'll get J.B.'s thoughts in this as well in Sammy's, but last night was a look, as we had mentioned, and you just mentioned, that you would have liked all season long. And Simmer, like, that look last night was from, I hate doing this, but I'm going to do it anyways. But when we played, that look last night was from game one to 82 or 80 back then. Okay, it was just, it was a constant. You wouldn't have looked twice at last. night's game with anything that we would have gone through the regular season. Now, you were a skilled guy.

I was one of those guys that you would look around the room and you could feel like what you could get away with and what you couldn't because there was six or eight guys that you knew on your team that would have your back. And the Leafs did not have that this year. So where was it lost for you? What is it the most? They didn't pick the right guys or the guys aren't just willing to. do it anymore.

Like, but why didn't we see this more often this year out of this particular roster? I don't think it was ingrained from the beginning with the core group of players. Like the core group of guys don't necessarily have that personality, right? Like, and I think that's where it falls off that it's not the mindset of, okay, you know, I looked at Callan last night. Okay, Zedora's bigger in that. But you know what? He's now about the confidence of you jump in, you might get hit a few times.

You're typically not going to get hurt because that fight's not going to be a real fight. He didn't even get five minutes. It wasn't really a fight. You know, that's just knowing that I got to do something to show that I care about you. And I would say that that has been a bit of a fault. And, you know, personalities bring a lot of it. You know, you've got a quiet core group of leadership in the Leafs. And maybe it doesn't get transnational.

right from the beginning of camp that this is the way we have to be if we're going to be successful as a team. And let's face it, you know, you've had moments, you look at the core teams that are winning each year. And if I'm a player, you go, there's a commonality. It's a pack mentality. And, you know, my captain in Pittsburgh to start out was Mario. Mario didn't really have that in him or even the understanding of that, Nick, until he came back from the 1987 Canada Cup

and that guy came back an absolutely different man because he played with the game's best players he succeeded at the highest level he got a look that for the first time of just how damn hard it is to be a great player and to win and he came back just a completely

different guy you know I got traded early in that year but it was his first heart trophy and his first Art Ross and that's by no coincidence and it takes a while then for even a team like Pittsburgh to build that culture of, okay, Mario suddenly is a different captain and Mario is a different guy that understands those little things, as you say, Nick, that your fourth line guy knows that even his first line guy is going to jump in if he gets run.

Like, it's not about just the third or fourth line guys protecting the big guys. It's everybody jumping in together. And there's nothing wrong with getting beat up every now and then. I know it. And it's fine. You know, I think of jumping in against Brad McCriman, who's going to beat the heck out of me. Enrico Chiconi, you remember him?

Oh, yeah. That was my last one. He nailed Derek Plant, who was a young player in Buffalo for him. And, you know, so what if you get hit a few times? But your young guy has got to know that an old guy who can't even skate with his back, got to know that you got his back. And so that's what I loved about last night. And quite honestly, you guys tell me,

me. Maybe it's just because I'm more aware of it. But even watching the 15 games last night, it seems to me since the Goodos Matthews incident that was so publicized about the lack of response. And everybody knows, you know, Toronto media. It's a national thing. It was around the league. You have other teams talking about. You have Brady Kachuk talking about it on his podcast and all that. Even last night, I think it spewed other teams around the league to be jumping on things that quite honestly aren't all that egregious. And I watching about seven of the 15 games last night, I can count five or six.

And since I go, that usually doesn't happen. And I think it was a trigger point for every team to go, oh yeah, like where's our guidelines with our team? Where are we in terms? And I do think it was not just for the Maple Leaf, but I do think it was a bit league-wide. I think that's also a great thing for hockey. You know, it's fun for fans.

Oh, it brings the passion back, right? Absolutely. That's a big part of it. So, you know, looking at this team and where they're at and wondering like, God, it just feels like everything that could have gone wrong this year did. And I wonder like, okay, if you ran it back, you hit the reset button, what is this team? Would they have been this bad, you know, nine out of ten times? Or is this team really not as bad as their season was this year? And I'm saying that, Sam, Sam, we're looking at next season.

Because, God, there is still going to be Matthews and Nylander. And this cowen looks pretty good. this nice kid's pretty good and they got some veteran D and the goalies are you know like I can talk myself in the playoffs next year well with additions and changes but I want to get simmers take for where he thinks they're at well I know yours like like every weakness you know look at even how hard a team like the Ottawa senators which has been a you know pretty good group and a pretty good team when they didn't get goal tending early on and they had question marks I you I'd listen to you just in numerous times say you know, look at Sammy's having a heart attack with Stolars coming in last night and probably won the game for them,

even though they outshot them for the first time. But it could have been a 2-1 game the other way, you know, very quickly. So let's not kid ourselves. And I've heard Justin say about last year, you had exemplary goaltending with, you know, Stolars and 926. You know, you better make the playoffs when your goalie has got that kind of a gaudy number. and we'll play well at the time. So if you can have that foundation, I think it allows you to be not as dialed in

and not as good and maybe not as effective offensively, but not go through the stretches where you're losing four and five games in a row. And quite frankly, this team's problem this year, too, is they can't win three games in a row. You know, last year, 12 times, they won three or more. This year, they've just done it four times.

And so that's how you become. a 500 team when you can't put them together. And let's not kid ourselves. If you have that confidence and goal, it allows you to protect yourself from some of your weaknesses because if you're looking Nick and say, can they be a playoff team next year? You know what? A lot has to change for that to happen. And you have to make some deft moves or some good signings.

But if you have a foundation that suddenly your defense is a little stronger and you know how to defend, I don't know if you guys have a short memory, but do you not remember the first couple of times I was on your show showing the cross-scene passes in the defensive zone that teams were scoring on the lease and it was just like, what is this? Like where did this team learn how to defend

or not forget how to defend all of a sudden? And I think that's what kind of gets you off on the wrong foot and all of a sudden 25 games in, you're a 500 team and you're chasing it the whole year. Zimmer, no one will ever dispute how talented they are in the nets between Stolars and Joseph Wall and we've seen it in the last 10 days from both of them.

But, you know, it's just the reliability and the trust factor of them being there. Is there any part of you if you were in charge that would or wouldn't give them another chance, the two of them next year? I think, Nick, I think I'd be pursuing an option that could move one of them. them and either free up, you know, an opportunity for Hill to be to become the second or if you've got, you're never going to get, you know, trade for a number one goaltender or sign a number one goaltender, but get somebody that you know with the track record that you know, okay, he can be a 25 game guy and I know what he is and then I'll work

Hildebe. And if I can do that and fill a spot that we need help with, whether or who knows how good or productive Craig Tannav is, is even going to play again. Or Chris Tanov is even going to play again. So I think you have to look on that back end and say, I got to shore something up. So, Nick, I think you probably agree. I'd be pursuing an opportunity to move one.

Yes. But given that, and if it doesn't happen, and you're not just going to give that away for nothing or a fourth or fifth rounder that's not going to help you, If you can do it that can help you in a key defensive position, I think you'd do it. But you might be forced to say, listen, we're going to have to take half this year and say run these guys back. And you know what? In a perfect world, if they both perform brilliantly, that gives us some leverage come later in the year, trade deadline,

that maybe we can really make a difference and get a good deal. But I think the onus is on trying to make a deal that plugs a hole somewhere else. because they do think you have a little bit of depth there and I think it's worth the opportunity for Hildaby to be a number two behind one of those two guys. Zimmer, I can't help but wonder to, I don't know what's going to happen with the coaching position and none of us do, but I can't help but look at Columbus,

they make a switch and all of a sudden they are what they thought they might be or even better than it. And I know Buffalo didn't change a coach, but they made a change to leadership where they got the team's attention. I am curious how much can change or what changes? Like you've been in these dresser rooms enough to know that like a coaching change year over year can have a significant difference with the same players

and trying to figure out why that is. I think fans don't understand why it can be so dramatic at times. Well, I think if you know anything about human dynamics, different people respond differently and different coaches have a different methodology of putting their message out. and there are some that connect with the masses, and some of those same that connect with the masses might miss, you know, different type of personality and people.

And so I think when you get caught into a situation where the messaging is just not working, and, you know, it becomes a real blanket, a lead blanket over everybody's personality, their energy, their confidence, and you replace it with, you know, Bones' personality, there's a reason why he circulates and has been in the game so long, because he's got a repairing type personality that can build you up when you feel down.

If I was going through a struggle and I had an opportunity to talk to a few people, if you talk to Rick Bones, he's going to identify with what's ailing you and maybe has some messaging to really help you and give you some advice to get yourself thought of it, just from a personal perspective. So I do think, Justin, there are certain, you know, coaches that might not be able to continue it for the long haul, but come into a situation where a team just needs that. And he's got that in the sense that he's got the instant respect of the guys because he's been in the game for so long and because he's coached so many different personalities and

skills and people, and he's had, you know, success at levels as well. but you've got their attention there. And then he's just got a reparative personality that can build a guy that maybe was clutching his stick so hard that he couldn't make a play because of the way the coach talked to him a certain way. And let's face it, there are guys that are demanding and certain players can absorb that

and get their best out of it, but for others it's paralyzing. So it is interesting. You know, you just go back in class, 25 years or so and you know two of them ironically in Pittsburgh Dan Bilesma comes in and you know the penguins win a Stanley Cup Mike Sullivan comes in

and the penguins win a Stanley Cup you've got those examples so it's always you know the the aftermath saying should you have done something would it have made a difference and you know we're never going to know the answer to that but I do think I listen to you about how Craig Barubi's coaching now. Craig Barubi's

coaching for his coaching life and he's not going to let his foot off the pedal there at all. I heard Sammy talking about Florida. Listen, Paul Maurice isn't trying to coach through an ending of a bad season, trying to instill the traits of character

in his group. He knows what he's got. And Bill Zito is not trying to save his job. They're going to try to do what they can do to get the first overall pick after winning freaking two, Sam, the cup final, you know, like that's, but that's a completely different scenario, guys. So, you know, I'm not saying that Maurice is, is not coaching the win or coaching for his

guys, but for Chief, he's just doing his job and has to make sure that he's going to instill something. Like a game like last night says, hey, maybe some messaging got across, you know, that was one of their better games that probably they played, well, in months, maybe even on the year. And so you say that's your job as a coach. And unfortunately, it doesn't always line up with what you want at the end result, which as you said tonight is a game that, you know, man, New York looked just awful against the Ottawa the other night. And, you know, you come in and you say, how can you go into the game tonight as a coach

saying, well, we can't beat this team. You're going to coach to beat this team. But that's the reality that you're living in. And that's the problem of being a team that hasn't lived up to where they should be. as a group. Simmer, great stuff as always, man. So appreciate your time on our show tonight. New York Rangers, Toronto Maple Leafs

on Sportsnet, 730, puck drop, 7 o'clock pregame with our very own Justin Bourne. Thanks for doing this, Simmer. All right, guys, good talking to this. Cheers. Great stuff. Thanks, Sammer. Appreciate it. So, you mentioned, like, you know,

coaching change or a general manager change and just the effect. And the best way I can describe it to people is like players almost look at it like hearing the news of a of a death and what does that do what's the first thing it does kind of brings you back into your your own understanding or you're you know you're confronting your own mortality kind of situation and that's what it is exactly it's like it gets your attention it's like people aren't happy i got to start eating salads lives are affected and i better get my act

going. I could be next. Yeah. I can see that. And it is fascinating that it happened post-GM once because that speaks to what you're talking about. And also if there's some fear that accountability's coming, like, oh, they're starting to pull the plug in this thing and you might be next. That's the same idea as a coach. Just with where they're at in the season and the desperation,

I think it is pretty surprising that he didn't do it. You know what I think, Sam? I think if this is next year and it's year two and a half of four, it's different. Last year they had 108 points going to the second round. I think it's such a shock. And if we go back to the beginning of the season,

you know, we do remember Keith Pelley really, really liking, if not loving, you know, Brad Tree Living and Craig Brewby taking over like the leadership role. Both very likable dudes.

To watch and understand how a team, goes from winning the Atlantic Division to this is not an easy thing to just turn around and say, okay, you're gone. I think it was a difficult call and one that no one was prepared to make, and especially Keith Pelley. He's just not prepared to do it. Yeah, I think him being new, the backdrop of the success the year before. Yes.

Really played a part. And also they just let go Shanahan. We're presuming they didn't get rid of UJerry and Shanahan, you know, because they they were bad at sports. It's cost a lot of money, right? To have those guys. And Barubi's probably owed another $8 million, like four per season, I would think. I think Craig made a terrific point here in the comparison to how Florida is going about this with no threat to Zito, no threat to Paul Maurice.

They're completely on the same page. Nobody's insecure about anything. Yeah, but that's the issue. I know. That is the issue. You're right. You know what the issue is? Disconnect.

We've talked about disconnect all season long. There is no bigger one than a coach that's trying to win now and save his reputation or a potential job situation next year, a general manager who wasn't prepared to get rid of more guys at the trade deadline. And obviously the players who want to save face two. So it's like everybody's got their own agenda right now. And it's as disconnected last night. With a win.

But like always to me, from a general manager perspective, doing the right thing for the team, even if you think you're worried about your job, doing the right thing is always the thing that should make people go, he's good at that, which in this case is clearly just get to the bottom five. You're four points out of it.

You got three weeks left. Let's just do whatever it takes. That to me would look better than winning down the stretch and being like, see, we're pretty good. No one's buying it. Ruby, you're right. He's fully, his motivation is to win. The players are motivated to look good.

It comes down to, you know, what's the old thing from Moneyball where they basically took the manager's toys away and said, you're going to play with these toys now. That's kind of what Tree would have to do. All right. And it doesn't feel like there's any... There's no toys being taken away. No.

We should probably break. We should try to talk about Cowan. Because we didn't really talk about it at a ton. So we'll talk about that after the break. Okay. And Mailbag? Sure. But the Cowan thing's more pressing.

I got a few questions for you, but we'll do the mailbush. There's a lot of meat on the bone here in our Leaf Hour edition. Back after these words. diving deep into leaps, rafters, Jays, and NFL. The Jady Bunkett podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the show. Nickyprials, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

Jay's just announced their opening day roster. The roster? Yeah. We're back. I think it's gauze. Do they do that all the time? Yep. Gauze, I think, is starting opening day.

That's good. AL defending champs, baby. I got to say it looks pretty good. Looks pretty strong. So we'll see. We'll see. Tough division, boys. Okay.

The Atlantic's tough. Good Lord. Positives last night, outside of a win, depending where you sit on the tank line. Easton Cowan. Yeah. Yeah. And I think two games now where he has shown a willingness to physically engage with much larger men.

John Tavares got greased and he chased Nikita Zedorov for chance to get at him, which means he had time to think about it, and that he still went through with it as a big tip of the cap for me. I mean, there's clips from last night, and they're basically all about Cowan. Let's start with the first Barubic clip on Easton Cowan, Derek, clip one. Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, you know, obviously, you know, guys are getting in there and protecting their teammates, which is good, and, you know, got to give Easton a lot of credit.

Young kid, you know, going after. is a big man and DAC DAC taking care of business so it's really good to see the team stuff like that it's great wonderful

like yeah that's what you want for sure and we've talked about this many times like go in it'll attract a crowd you know Simmer talked about it no one expects you to fight Zadoroff and I'm certainly glad that

Zadorov didn't see him coming No. And if he had plenty of time to see him, maybe we'd be having a different conversation. But like I got to ask you about this, because this is something that I imagine that maybe you did in your career, but I don't know about that because you've said to me that you didn't consider yourself a heavyweight.

But Max Domi does it all the time, where it's like he's not going to square off with Zadorov or any of these heavies, but he'll kind of get the first one in and get started before the guy realizes he's in a fight. He's like, oh, yeah. It's great. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Right.

Yeah. There's like an art to like, hey, I'll fight that guy, but I'm not fighting. There's an art to all of it. And here's just the most basic common denominator is like. Start first. No, well, start first. Whatever you need, just don't get hurt, right? Don't hurt yourself.

Don't lose badly and don't embarrass the team. And that's it. So what advice would you give me for that? I was going to go play that role. How do I avoid getting hurt? How do I not lose that? Yeah, just, yeah, get in early. I tie up hands.

You grab sleeve, jersey. Anything. Hope your teammates come in. Just bear hug them. Yeah, yeah. You're looking for the rest. And look and make sure your line mates or your defense partners at the time, know that I'm not doing this.

I'm not squaring off. We're not going to center. And I'm not putting on a show. I need you to come in as quickly as you can to help me out. And if it gets to the point where you're actually dropping punches, then you run the risk of bringing somebody in too late and they're the third man in. So the whole idea is to also not get ahead of yourself,

start throwing punches where someone can't get in. If you're in a scrum and it looks like you're holding on, you may be holding on until someone else can get in there as well. Right. And then that's an art in itself. But I thought it worked out. great. I love OEL.

OEL got in there. First guy in there. Right? First guy in there and he knows who he needs to get. Yes. Right? He knows that. The dirty hit still, like,

the other thing that was abundantly clear to me is how small he is, guys. Well, it's the door of them. No, no, no. He's tiny in this whole battle. Okay. He's not a big, strong guy. He could get hurt too, right? So another reason why you got in there.

And he looks 12. He's not helping him either. He's got this baby face too, right? I saw him in the post game, though, and I was like, he's coming. You know, I remember him two years ago, a little more. And he can, he can be scrappy like this, and he can have this look. He's had the rest of his career. But he is not going to be Hegel.

No, Hegel 6-2. He's not going to be that type of guy. But he, he, he, he, He can create energy. I don't know if he's ever going to be 200 pounds. He can be six feet, but will he be 205? Will he be, will he carry some weight? Yeah.

Like to me, he still looks incredibly light. Times he gets bounced. Yeah, he's a child. He's 20. So how much weight and how much stronger can he get? That will gain. Without slowing him down. That will gain confidence as well for him to go.

But like, for Cowan to be that guy now every once in a while to fight, like, I mean. Yeah. It should be Matthew Nyes. Yeah, no one wants Cowan to fight. Not Cowan. But you do want guys who are willing. Yes.

And that's the end of the sentence. And listen, he came in through the hunters program in London with Dale and Mark pleased. He knows. So did Mitch. He knows. He doesn't fight in anyone. You know, Cowan's gone a little bit of the. I, we're not playing that second clip.

It's just what you said there. So it's good. Yeah. But, yeah, but Mitch, Mitch is not that guy, right? Mitch will never be that guy. No, that's the exact point. Mitch was Pat Kane. Right.

Right. I would say, though, that it just shows how low the bar is for Lee fans to just have somebody that show, like, people will remember that. If you get a popularity poll of this team, there's no chance he's not in the top three. But, like, that moment right there is something that people will remember forever. Like, you just didn't do that two to three times a year. And people. and Willie never did it once

Matthews never did it once He never did it once. He has now at the age of 20 with the baby face He has more fights combined than all the Corps 4 do And their careers is least And he's eight years old That showed Maybe the most leadership

All season long Last night out of a Cowan Let's listen to the Quibor Remember that is this anything meme That's still the Cowan Is this something? Is this a guy? Is he a lot? leader? Let's do John DeVaris clip 1 on Easton count. I was just chuckling a little bit. I said

just be smart, but I appreciated it. So I didn't see him before the power plane and whatnot. So, you know, he plays with a lot of motion. You can feel his excitement on a daily basis, just getting up and getting to play and compete. And I remember being in those shoes. So it's invigorating and it's exciting. You know, I think the world of him. So, yeah, I think just overall he continues to grow. And like I said, make his mark. and prove that he belongs. That's, I mean, first, somewhat interesting John Tavares clips of our whole show's era,

but I thought that was nice. Likes him. Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's... Listen, it kind of goes back to what you just said before. Like, you can't have Tavaris, Willie, Mitch, and Austin not have any of that for 10 years and expect to win.

No, you're right. At the end of the day. Can have four of them. You have two. Yeah. But you can't, maybe. even three. Totally.

That's the smoking gun of the whole area. It's going to be, I was just going to say, it's going to be. Four is the death of this decade. Would you say that's the defining, yes, feature,

lack, the thing they're missing this whole time. Yes. That's been it. Yes. In the core. Just needed one guy. And as many times you can go,

we got you, Noah Chari here. No, no, no, they needed one of them to have what Easton Cowan had last night. what McKinnon has or Sid has or, you know, like a...

Something. Just that, that edge. Not waiting for those guys that you mentioned coming at a trade at the last second. Those guys can win. Like, Phil Kessel won cups. I know I use that as an example a lot, but like, you can win as a good player who doesn't have it, but you have to have it around. Phil won when he was

not Phil out of Toronto. Well, he won because he had... Yes, he was a third liner. He almost won the cons might the first year that won the cops. He was unbelievable. That long. Benino, him, and Hagelin. Oh, come on, please. But he was unbelievable.

He was good, but he was not a star. He just needed to fit in. You're having, you're having, not having that debate. You're having circumstantial memory here. Like, he was amazing for them. Like, it was the conversation. All right.

All right. Let me look up as, I'm a Phil Kessel. I'm looking at all. I'm looking up his playoff numbers that year. No, we're doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it.

Phil Kessel that year. Had 22 points in 24 playoff games. 10 goals, 12, 12. assists. All right. They don't generally give Con Smythes to third line players. Oh, the next year he only had 23 points in 25 games.

He was no good. He's good. He's good when nobody expects anything out of him. Oh, they just want to come. Man. We're seriously. Anyways. Don't just have him lead.

That's all. Assuming Brad, this is from Zach on Twitter, assuming Brad Trilliving and Craig Brubair had gone, who would you guys pick to replace them? So I actually had this conversation recently, and it's very, very challenging. You don't know who's going to be available for one, right? People are going to lose jobs this summer and the pool will get bigger.

So who's available? We all know DeBorz out there, Galance out there, but like, we don't know. We just don't know. You assume if St. Louis lets Doug Armstrong out of his contract, I assume that the Leafs would have him very high. Yeah. Yeah. We don't know where they're.

that's going to end up. Would that be president or GM do we think? We just got to be president. I don't think he's going to answer to anybody. Yeah. Right? Well, what does that mean? Like, I don't think there's going to be, I don't think it's going to be him as a GM. And they're like, we got Chris Pronger as the president. I would feel, I would feel like he would be the grand Pouban that somebody else would be underneath him, right? That's kind of what I would feel, but maybe not.

Yeah, that's an interesting question. And I have, I have no idea how that could play out, especially with, you know, new owner, full owners of Rogers. So I think you could do a list right now and you could put some names, some familiar names, and you should, right? But you should also have a long list of other names that aren't on the tip of our tongue. Totally agree. Like the next carberry. Next, or Dan.

Dan Mews. You could get carberry. Or carberry. Go down the list. Go down the list of potential up-in-comers like that. And do your homework. And then there's a list of agents now that could step in in an executive role as well. There's a coach name I've heard that I think is interesting.

Mani Molholtra. Yeah, he was here. Was he with the Marley for a bit? And now he's the head coach of A. Alabsford, who I believe is a first. But he coach his son? Yeah, maybe. If he gets drafted by the Leafs?

Yeah. I don't know. No, but this is what they need to do, Sammy. You put your list together. I'm telling you right now, I'd have the people who currently have jobs right now on the list. Yeah. And if I felt they were worthy enough,

I'd knock on the door and I'd ask, could I steal them? To answer the question from Zach, I go, Doug Armstrong, Matthews, and McDavid's agent as general manager, And Spencer Carborea as a coach. There you go. Kevin Adams is AGM. Sure.

Bring him in. Bring him in. Why not? I don't know. Try the Jeff Jackson thing. Maybe McDavid will come here if his agency general manager. You guys are talking a lot recently about Brubis comments for you players, not playing well enough and really coaching hard.

My take is that Chief is interviewing for his next job. He's putting stuff out there right now trying to control the narrative of a what right wrong, Cam from Toronto. Totally is exactly what we're talking about with these players. And it's like, where was it before? don't you know if I were another team looking at it be like that's great but why did it come to this now I would have loved some of this sometimes you're a tough read for me on whether you want the coach to call guys out or not I think you don't but you want accountability how'd I do uh yeah I think it's circumstantial for sure

on on the call out or the non call out I'm usually okay when I think everything behind the scenes has been exhausted. And then I think there's a little fair game to going public. I told you guys way back when, when I first heard it come out of Craig Bruby's mouth on Willie Nealander, how do you coach him? I just leave him alone. Oh my God.

That one bothered me a lot. I'm like, that's the last guy you just need to leave alone. The last guy. But I don't think he does. did leave him alone. Well, you know what? Well, then don't say it then. I think that they had about five confrontations.

Willie won them all. And then Craig came to that. You know, where they were just... And Willie was Willie. Willie was on a high. Remember early? He was playing him like 16 minutes and then like... Yeah, and Willie was telling him play me. And then he played him.

Yeah, he did. Willie kind of big dogged him early on. Well, that's always been the problem. Here. Like, the tail wagging the dog? Like, which one is it here? Inmates running the asylum is a popular saying. So that guy, you got to...

And just be honest, it's not just either Brad or Willie or Craig, Ruby. The room has to be strong enough for a guy like Willie. And it's not. That's one of the weakest rooms probably I've seen in 25 years. I think we nailed it with a...

Castle thing. At the end of the Castle thing, you said, he just can't lead. I think you had four superstars here who were Castle. That room's a disaster. Okay? A complete disaster today. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Waiting for the...

This is clean up in aisle seven stuff. Oh, my God. Yeah. Tune into her tomorrow to follow up on that one. All right. This is fun. Our thanks to Craig Simpson. What do we got next?

A little Ottawa time. Sends and Jets. Sanchez and Jets. Alex Adams. Sean Reynolds says we go national. Next on the real Kippur and Bourn Show. Do not go away.