Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Does the Shark Tank Still Have Bite?

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin by previewing Leafs at Sharks this coming weekend - is there any concern that the Leafs will play down to their opponent in San Jose, despite the Sharks sporting one of the worst records in the league? They also discuss Nick Robertson's play, accountability at-large on this Leafs squad, and get into the presence of Michael Nylander in his son's negotiations with the team. Afterwards, Doug MacLean (29:12) stops by for Off The Rails Friday! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome into the off the rails friday edition of the real kipper and born show leaf talk for the next hour i'm nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo general nick wherever you're watching or listening sports netnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. Thanks for coming along for the ride. Yeah, text us at 590-590. We're going to read some questions on the air today. Take them.

That way we don't have to plan the content. No, no, no. No, just be honest. Just so we don't have to talk as much. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll do some your words, not ours for today No, just be honest. So we don't have to talk as much. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll do some your words, not ours for today. That would be great. Shortened week coming off 10 days for the holidays.

Yeah. Thanks for that. By the way, calendar needed it. It did feel like we jammed in a lot in these four days, including a lot of talk about Willieie neilander and his situation but there was a lot that was happening uh right off the bat including the ryan hartman situation that led to a very interesting conversation on our wednesday night panel here at sportsnet and uh that that story won't go away we'll get into that a little bit more on news and notes uh

in the next two hours but uh been a lot jammed pack yeah it's i mean it's been good this is a interesting time of year where you know for the leafs you're figuring out what they are tonight or sorry not tonight tomorrow night they go into san j, a team who is in their last 10 games. Do you happen to know their record, the last 10 games? The Sharks? I hate to put you on the spot here. Better. No.

Worse? Yeah. It's 0-10-0. Okay. I don't know why I was under the impression that they were okay. They got like sneaky hot. Yeah. They had a moment where they were winning some games.

That's right. You're not in your mind. Yes, they were winning some games that's right yes they were winning some games but they are not right now 40 uh outscored 43 and 15 in that stretch somebody uh the other day just snuck by them by a goal didn't they lose to one so sounds possible no no no sounds possible so that's why i think they're doing really well because they're they're losing by respectable scores now. So, yeah, Tomas Hertel is their all-star. So the table is set for the Leafs here. They get the Leafs or the Sharks in San Jose on Saturday. Then they play the Sharks at home.

I believe it's Tuesday night next week. Tuesday, yep. Nick Robertson is not going to play again, Kipper. Okay, so. Is it crazy? Just let me say this. Is it crazy that i feel like this is way more of a test than like actual good teams the leafs no based on what they've done

against teams like this because they played their best game in maybe two years against the kings in the second half of back-to-back they squeaked by the ducks they played better obviously they killed them they just couldn't get a goal but going into this back to back can i saw terry koshan be koshan being like well if they play like they didn't it's two wins it's like well can they never work that way can they cruise one in yeah is the question i'm yeah we need a night we talked on you know on yesterday about mcdavid's last four or five games and we are going to be joined by oilers head coach Chris Knobloch in the second hour of the show today by the way but we talked about McDavid in his last five games two of the games he played 16 minutes they won five nothing in San Jose and they didn't really have

to use them and then I forget what the other game was but he had a lot of points and they just 16 minutes yeah can they do that one night okay you mentioned nick robertson we'll have a conversation on nick but let's start jb uh our leaf edition here with your article today uh sportsnet.ca because it's an intriguing one for me uh because there's a sense right now that sheldon Keefe, head coach of the Leafs, has made a strategic call on accountability. And, of course, it really was very well noticed and documented with David Kemp the other game. But your article on Sportsnet.ca is Sheldon Keefe's quest for accountability, and it comes with high stakes.

So going into California, there's 17 and 10, I believe, or right around there. And again, the call for accountability. I mean, 17 and 10 is a decent record, but when you look at the start of training camp to where they were going into California, there was still a sense that something's not right with the team. Yeah, it was a rough stretch there.

Inconsistency, rough stretch. And it's almost as if, I don't know, Sheldon himself discovered it or someone went to Sheldon and said, not enough accountability. Did you get that sense that this was just, like, where did it stem? Where did it come from for a team that looks comfortably, you know, on their way to another playoff berth? I mean, for me, Kip, I wonder if it's not some just internal investigation into the question, why are we so bad against bad teams?

What is happening that we have our best players just kind of, you know, in these games where Boston goes and just handles their business against the worst teams in the league, where are we in those games? And I think you just look at your team and say what's happening and it's almost like you ask so much of the star players for so much of the season you know no matter who you're playing it feels like you know these columbus games they're trying to come back from behind and they end up playing 25 minutes and you ask so much of these guys all the time and it's like why can't they just come out and do that and handle their

business and when they don't why don't they get sat down why don't they get demoted to the third line why isn't there any of that and it's because there's no accountability accountability no demotions or benchings or whatever that these guys know they can go out see how it goes and if it doesn't go well they're still going to get the time at the end of the game to chase to be on the power play to be on the man advantage when you pull the goalie and this to me is maybe a an effort to fix that to say we need some accountability on this team somewhere you want to go before i jump in well i would say that after the camp benching the next game was the king's game right is that correct correct yeah i think they played harder in that game than they played. That was their best game of the year. I think they haven't, not even was it their best game.

It's just the manner with they played. Yeah. In terms of physicality. The Anaheim game was a great effort. Just playing hard. Yeah. And I guess like if you want to say that this mini little, you know, whatever whack worked for the first two games,

and maybe it can continue, maybe this accountability thing did work. But just for me, the timing of seeing camp getting benched and them having two of their better performances of the year right away, it may have actually gotten through to them. Yeah. Kipper? I said in the article that they either seem to be unfazed by it or bought into it. Go ahead.

I get everything you're saying. Okay. Don't spare my feelings just go ahead i'm just now looking at sheldon and sheldon's one of the longest tenured coaches in the league right now right crazy that is what year are we in for sheldon four five five the during the pandemic season you got like right before the pause was it or the year before that uh oh my god do we host a league 19 i know someone should 2019 sheldon keith has been the coach there since here i should say this is much harder to find the answer uh yes 2019 november of 2019 it's 2024 now are you guys in agreement with me that since he's been the coach, that up until this week, this is the most we've ever heard

since he's taken over the word accountability? No argument there. Yes. Correct. Okay. Okay. So, hey, Sheldeldon what took you so long and well I think there's a pretty clear right difference but this year than past years listen

when you when you're a head coach like you want to set the table early when you're on a team not in year four or five so i think it's great but like now yeah so my question to you guys is is it better late than ever did you just say that moments ago no it's in your head okay then that's me yeah better late than ever oh my gosh, maybe a little too late or what? Yeah, it's an old proverb that the best time. This is when you should have done this right away. Yeah, it's like what is it about planting a tree? The best time to plant a tree was yesterday.

The next best time is today. It's like if you haven't done it already, it doesn mean like you should you got to do it at some point if you're gonna dig in you gotta start i can't help but you know i don't really love to bring this up but i can't help but look at the two different general managers right and we talked about this a ton in the off season it was a very very popular talking point about what Sheldon Keefe would be like under a different general manager and what he would be like without Kyle Dubas around. Okay.

Are we seeing that? The tree went to him and said, Sheldon, where's the accountability? Up until a week ago, not much difference. But it's been a few, two months, three months. We're talking October, November, December. Let me assess what we got. We're 30 games in and go to him. Okay.'ve seen enough that's fair we have a little bit more

yeah they're still early that is fair that is fair do you think do you think brad got to him i think it's a fair point i think and i think it's a fair point yeah i totally agree with you in terms of brad really needing a few months to absorb and see. And I don't know, did Brad in the last little while go, hey, Sheldon, we got to have a little talk here. We got to start using this word a lot more. Yeah. You know, interesting enough, we talked yesterday on the show about Max Domi's ice time yesterday against Anaheim.

Nine minutes. Yeah, nine minutes. And then, you know, we were kind of going, you know, what's going on with this? I went back and watched and, you know, we all did today. The Anaheim goal where Domi is actually his guy. He flies the zone looking for an offensive chance. He ends up, his guy goes back in a two-on-one,

sets up Vetrano and they score. He doesn't play a lot after that. I think he played four minutes or sorry, three and change after that. You know, again, it seems like a push for accountability. But again, and this is what my article is on, it's one of the Team B guys. See, I don't know who Camp is. No, Domi.

Oh, Domi. I don't think Camp is part of Team B, though. He's here for four years. Well, and that's what I said. Who's that? Camp. He's not part of Team B. though. He's here for four years. Well, and that's what I said. Who's that? Cam. He's not part of Team B. No, buddy.

Listen, there's only four guys. Five. Riley's in there. We'll throw Riley, but there's only four forwards on Team A. Okay? Everybody else is Team B. I think guys that are here for multiple seasons are sort of part of Team A. They definitely feel more.

Like Yarncroft, too. Yeah. He's here for multiple seasons. sort of part of team a they definitely feel more i know yeah he's here for a multiple seasons team b they're still the you know to me the the guys that are here to help the others you know like they're not a little from column a a little from column b there you go i get what you're saying my article was how which i loved by the way thank you how do you find accountability for Team A? And this is my point. And does it matter? When Team A hasn't been held to the fire for four or five years. In their career outside. Can Sheldon do it now?

Or to your point in your article, are they excluded still? Way harder to establish it once they've already gotten used to being free range chickens running around the farm to say now you live in a pen with you know it's a weird example metaphor whatever with your example of of what was was the shorthanded goal where max is blowing the zone a big part of why he only played nine minutes, because if we went back in those four or five years, I think I can find you a few examples where Willie Nylander blew the zone. That very game, I can give you examples. All day long.

He used to get benched. He used to be the only guy that Keith would. Yeah, he was eligible to be benched. But now he's just too good. But I think that these sort of discipline things are still in connection with what their expectations are. Like, Willie's allowed to do certain things that other people aren't,

because his chances of finishing any chance are so much higher than anyone else's. Forever. But for all teams, yes. Forever. Historically, your best guys get a little more... Not with Rick Tockett, you know, and Lindy in Jersey with Timo Meier.

There were some big names being, Huberto missed periods. We've never seen that with the big boys here. We haven't. You're right. This is where the point is. One shift one time and it was a mess could be masked with someone going to the bathroom we talked about that for a week imagine what would happen if it was a period that's probably what they don't do 100 but if you go sort the nhl.com stat category for giveaways

the top guys historically it's like pabvel Datsyuk, you know, like the best players in the league, turn the puck over the most, and they don't get benched for giveaways. David Kampf turns it over once, and he gets benched, because it's like, you don't get to try that.

You don't get to try to make that play. These guys do a little bit. So it is different. There has to be some sort of difference. Listen, we know that. Yes. We know that.

But I, so the article is like, can we, I don't know, could a guy play on the third line for the third period once if he's stuck in for the night? Listen, if you're going to go in, go all in. Go big or go home. I don't agree with that. If you really want to send a message, then no, not the third line.

You sit the rest of the period. I'm not saying it doesn you sit the rest of the period yeah i'm not saying uh it doesn't dress the next game let's just berby was great on that yesterday too he was like he said the same thing he said don't scratch yeah you don't need to scratch and embarrass your best players but there's some nights where it's like you don't have it you don't have it and that's okay but just sit here and watch the rest of the game you know i'm just i got a text here and i don't need to read the full text it's from tim and hamilton he kind of reminded me i wouldn't say it's the first time we met heard accountability

because earlier this year before the boston bruins game sheldon did directly call out austin matthews not like hard but said that we need more from him and said like he did a whole thing. And since then, Austin Matthews has been legitimately one of the best players on the planet. So like I think there have been other examples in this year where he's had a little bit of accountability,

but I think this is the first time where you've actually seen the word pop up. Now like he deserves credit, Keith, for calling him out and having him turn into otherworldly Matthews right after that. He hasn't taken his foot off the gas since then. I don't know. I just thought of bringing it up.

That is the tough part about how do you manage getting through to these guys that we need more because I think it has felt at times like it doesn't matter what they do. At the end of the game, you're down one and Keith looks at his bench and goes Matthews is at 70% of his best tonight.

That's still better than this guy can give me Matthews go where sometimes you just have to say, yeah, he's the best goal scorer in the world, but you know, this guy's playing unbelievable. Matthews hasn't been good tonight. You know,

let's give someone else a chance. Who's excited, motivated for that opportunity. I know what's worked out fine in terms of two points, two points, two points, but it's setting a bad precedent for the team and expectations going into games.

So you have to fight for points at the end of those games. Yeah. You also kind of... Oh, go ahead. Will be interesting to watch now if this is a Team B change and it's Kempf and it's Domi and it's going to be Yarncroft and whoever,

or if the Stars at some point. Yeah. Who on occasion have turned the puck over. It's happened once or twice. Looking back through the tape on the season, yes. All right, Nick Robertson, you mentioned him earlier, will be a healthy scratch again tomorrow night on Hockey Night in Canada. I think from at least my perspective,

he's done a good job in terms of coming up. No, the numbers don't support it, but he, in my opinion, has turned himself into somewhat of an asset again for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Yeah. Even though he will miss his second consecutive game. I do. Yeah, I do. I do. I think I think 22 still. He is a guy that

a few teams could use. I'm not saying contending teams because now we're into the conversation of where would he fit on a contending team. And we have a Toronto Maple Leafs scenario here where he can't get into the top six. Power plays are an absolute minimal and is in a position to to score goals but there's got to be some teams right now that aren't competing that he can find a way to get into the lineup and see more power play time and possibly contribute 15 or 20 goals over the course of an entire season i

think that's possible yeah like a team like columbus or chicago or a team that's sort of rebuilding and looking for a little help i could see him being an asset you know so you gotta look at those teams of the leafs and you're like could we get like you know an older guy who's ready today can is boone jenner want to get traded at some point i don't know that's that's where i think it is for the tor Maple Leafs. And again, I don't know on his own what he could fetch, but I want this guy back, and I'm going to give you this plus this. He's a plus asset. He's a plus.

Yeah, which is nice. Really? Yeah, not for you? I don't know. I guess maybe it's just on this team. It's the fit. Like you guys are mentioning, maybe a worse team. He gets more ice time. I just don't see it. I don't know. I guess maybe it's just on this team. It's the fit. Like you guys are mentioning, maybe a worse team. He gets more ice time.

I just don't see it. I don't know. About two weeks ago, you told me you think he can score. Yeah. And I think he can play. I think he's fast. I thought he didn't have a quick enough first step for a while. I thought he was getting run over constantly in his first year or two.

He doesn't get blown up nearly as much, maybe once or twice all season. He seems to be able to gain some separation with the puck. I like his skill set, and this is just not the team for him where he's going to get the opportunities he needs to get better. And we've seen McMahon and Holmberg step in in that third slash line. Yeah, the Leafs score. Guys like that, go finish checks and forecheck and defend. They look better with Nick off Max Domi's line.

They look bigger. They look heavier to me. The hit on the McMahon. Mityakov. Oh, McMahon on Mityakov. Mityakov. You're never getting that out of Nick Robertson. No.

So that's more playoff type of hockey. And I can hear people going, the Leafs only scored two goals a game for seven straight games or whatever, and all I can see is Nick Robertson like turning one over or something and it ending up in your own net rather than creating one the other way you know we can shoot it he does turn the puck over yeah I don't want because he seems like a guy that cares a lot he loves hockey and I don't want to kill him but it just I haven't seen you know he isn't and like he's had moments where he's come up and it's been this hot start and he's had we shot it in the net and it's been exciting and like oh maybe this is

the time it's gonna stick and then it always just goes away. I always think of players where I'm like... It always just fades away where you stop noticing them. And I'm like, every time I think of him, I'm like, what line? Where does he work? And it's like, well, not quite there, not quite there, not quite there, not quite there. And it's tough to find a spot.

And there are guys who fit everywhere. You know, Tyler Bertuzzi, what line could you put him on? Whichever one you want. You know, he's a multifaceted guy and Robertson's not that. Earlier in the week, we talked about the Willie Nylander contract. I think getting to a point where it's getting a lot closer at no point, at least from my perspective, that anything's imminent or been agreed to

in terms of a total package on a contract. But yet, Elliot Friedman yesterday in his 32 thoughts had a different perspective on it, which included Willie Nylander's dad, Michael. Yeah. As a, you know, he didn't, Elliot didn't really say anything in that piece aside from he is a factor here.

Yes. And I think the implied factor is that. He's a hindrance. Well, I think the implied factor is that Michael was a hard negotiator when he played. Yes. And Elliot mentioned that Willie is a loyal son. Yes.

And that perhaps the hard negotiating is... Okay, so one plus two... You got it. You got it. Yeah, he'd like him to make more money. I'm just adding up the advocates here. No, no, no, for sure. And, well, first of all, Michael's an agent, right?

Working with his agent, Louis Gross. gross right so let's make that abundantly clear here he's in a position where uh it's just not the normal dad he is a player agent a player agent representing his son so of course he's going to be a factor in it. I think sometimes that part of it gets overplayed for me, at least from my perspective, that the news flashes with this new generation, everybody's dad's involved. Everybody's got a say here, more so than at any point. And this is not 25 years ago with my dad going,

just still thinking I'm the richest man in the world because, you know, I'm in the NHL getting minimum wage, right? This is a different world with dads and parents involved. And it's just, you know, and the Hughes brothers also have their dad involved with CAA. So that's not just a way to funnel money to your family rather than give it someone else. These guys are actually involved.

I can't answer that question. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they're real. Maybe they go to rinks. Maybe they talk to other kids the thing their assets for the agent for sure there's no way like michael nylander even in his position is not leading this charge lewis gross is the main agent he's the guy that's running this and michael's input is as actually as a player agent like for willie like he's got some business investment here michael is an agent yeah yes

see i thought it was just lewis gross i'm no okay no this is michael okay but lew Lewis Gross is is leading this charge here and this is still the kids call when it's all said and done and dad can just say and I and and Elliot made the point that he's loyal to his dad which okay can you give me a father son NH, hockey dad that you aren't loyal to. So this is about Willie getting a number ultimately that he says I'm good with. You know, whatever that involvement is, though, Willie is a 28-year-old man, 27-year-old man, and they're offering him $ and a quarter million dollars if daddy thinks he should get another half a million dollars he can't say to his dad like hey i'm good you know what i appreciate your input thanks i'm pretty content with this it's a lot or i'm gonna

go ahead with this or or willie can say this is my number and hit it and if you don't hit it i'm leaving sure i'm with you dad yeah i get it yeah i get you're on the same page why do i have to leave a quarter of a million or half a million dollars less yeah why can't they just pay me what we think we're worth yeah and even in the ballpark of you don't know exactly the dynamic of does willie need to be persuaded by his dad you know to your point sammy he's 27 years old he's been around the block now he's had experience he's not wet behind the ears this is just the three of them now working together, and here's my number.

Hit it. I mean, you guys are both parents. I'd say if either of your children are going to sign $90 million contracts, you'd probably be a little bit involved. See, but I don't think I'd be involved saying, get 93. Yeah.

You know, I don't think I would. Yeah, but you're not Michael Nylander, I guess. You know what I mean? I yeah i'd be involved in listening and i understand that he's involved yeah but i really do like 1125 it's like that's a pretty good contract this is worse for them than the extra money it does make you like not business savvy for sure it makes you great like i don't want you representing me on my next contract. Terrible at it. Horrible.

You're fired. Not my career. You're right. You're 100% right. So. But is this not worse for them? What we're doing right here? Is this not worse?

Like, you know, then saying, ah, we didn't max out every nickel. Instead, people have to know, you know, the inner workings of the relationship. Give Austin Matthews credit. Whatever you think about, he could have got this or he should have signed for this, whatever. Two contracts with the Leafs. Just signed him and it was over. You know, like we haven't had to do,

I don't know anything about this. And the Leafs hit his number too. Sure. And he, not only did they hit his number, he got to dictate the term. He got to say five years and four years. It's a different story between Matthews and Nylander. What's the difference?

Is that Matthews is much better at hockey? I have no opinions on Poppy's dad, on Papa Poppy. Other than he likes to have a cocktail and watch his son. Likes to shoot guns. That's all I know. And that's great. That's great. Part of kids getting to the NHL now is your parents have to be really invested right like they have to from the beginning

have you in camps and taking you here and whatever so parents are their agents already yeah their agents are super involved more than ever i get the first time you laced up skates they were your agent yeah i get that i do but. But it's really gotten to the point where like, okay, some point they're grownups here. All right. We're going to take a quick break here when we come back. Good combo, boys. We'll get Doug McClain.

Oh, yeah, great. Former general manager, president, author. Does it all. And he does it all for us on Fridays on Off the Rails. Doug McClain, after the break. As promised, for the break, my favorite part of the week. I got to be honest with you because I can just sit and relax and just, it can go on forever. It's a great part of the week. I got to be honest with you because I can just sit and relax and just, he can go on forever.

It's a great part. I don't even care what he says. I just get a break. Let's welcome him in off of the last two rounds. Can you believe like one of the bestselling authors in the history of, of books? I know. Found time to golf and break 80. I think twice in the last week and a half two weeks

we have george rr martin let's welcome him in doug mcclain oh no no i for those of you that aren't watching uh the show on on uh many platforms on sports and he's lined up three books in the background one of them of course is draft day, but what are those other two books? What are they? It's called the golf book. And the other is the golfer's excuse handbook. And I have, I'm going to discard the golfer's hand excuse handbook after the show show because I don't need it anymore.

So listen, I've got some great stats. All right. One, there's one in 11 million chances you could be in a plane crash in your life. One in 11 million. One in 11 trillion chances that you will break 80 at golf no way in your lifetime and i broke it twice this week so what's that tell you i don't need the excuse the golf book is one of the greatest publications that i've been studying it to be quite honest because I had to work on my putting. Can we just set the record straight? No way. It's one in 11 trillion that you would break.

That the average golfer would. But here's the other problem. I was just notified that in the year 2023, Draft Day is the biggest selling sports book in Canada. And we're only out for three months of 23. So that's pretty exciting. I'm not going to push the book anymore because it's selling like crazy. I was just told Indigo ran out, Burns and Noble. So I'm not going to push anymore.

But I want to go back to talking PEI real estate here in the next few shows. So anyway, other than that, let's talk hockey. You know, I was going to start with the topic of accountability, but we don't hold you accountable. How are we going to have a conversation on it? We're going to need you to sit down for a week, Doug. Right? Because Sheldon's on this big kick on accountability this past week, Mac.

And, you know, as Justin wrote in Sportsnet.ca, how easy is that when you're going through your entire lineup? Accountability. My first year in the NHL was 1987, and I remember Ron Caron, the general manager of the St. Louis Blues talking to jacques martin i about accountability we got to make them accountable every time somebody gets fired where they've got to make the new guys got to make them accountable and then when he gets fired he wasn't making them accountable but now everybody's accountable oh like i'm serious like enough already just talk to your players tell them the way it's got to be forget the bs about accountability okay let's just

let's just deal with facts yeah be tough on them be fair with them be hard on them give them the right way to play teach them the right way to play, but cut out all the BS on accountability. Seriously. I'm sick of the word. All right. But if, if, if you need to send a message and sometimes it doesn't get through and you still got some of your better players cheating or breaking out of the zone before the puck comes out, you've always got that ability to bench them.

Do you not? I mean, have you, have you, how many stars have you benched over your career and how easy was it or hard? It's, well, you know, we've talked about benching players before and I look, I'm all for, I'll never forget Steve Eisenman in Detroit.

And I've told you this story many times. If he missed one power play, if he doesn't go out on the first this story many times. If he missed one power play, if he doesn't go out on the first shift of the power play, or he misses one power play because you decide you're not going to play, that's like him sitting out a game. The stars don't have to be benched. They have to have a little bit of ice taken away from them when it's critical in a game, when it's a power play, when it's a key time of the game if you're pissed off at them take a little bit of ice time away from them they get the same message as x player gets when he's told he's benched so i'm not going for it i'm not you know i i don't buy it but let me

tell you about accountability why the Leafs better be accountable and why they better play the right way, which I guess is another word for accountability, is they're going to play in all likelihood the Florida Panthers in the first round of the playoffs. We're at the 40-game mark. Them and Florida are 2-3. I'm not sure it's going to change, guys. And if they play the Florida Panthers in the first round of the playoffs, accountability, are you kidding me i hate to use this word because sports that may bar me from going on here but it's

going to be a war on the ice i know you got to be you know it has to be safe i get all that but this is not going to be safe to play out there. Okay. So tell me, I'm looking forward to it already. I say, it's not going to be safe in this situation when they play the Florida Panthers, who by the way,

are playing great hockey right now. And there is, it seems to be accountability. Does that come from Maurice or is that coming from the veterans on the team? Where does accountability really come from? Let's talk about the players making, let's talk about Ottawa.

You want to talk about accountability. What is, anyway, you're the guy, you're the host. You have to bring up the topics. I'm jumping. No, no, no. I wanted to get the golf in because I think it was really important. Very.

And, you know, I thought my game plateaued, but it just, it's a great message to send to players. It doesn't matter what age you can really perfect your game. So then, you know, my thoughts are just like I would say the most important trait from a coach is authenticity, that they are who they are. You know, Tortorella is who he is. And so is Rick Talkett and Craig Berube. You know what you're getting from these guys. Sheldon Key for four years has coached a certain way.

Can you then say now we're the accountability club and change the way you have run operations and have the guys buy in? You are what you are. And I'll tell you the one thing players know. They know when the coach isn't being real. They chuckle. Like, Kippy, you talk about what it was like in the dressing room. Like you with the scarf wrapped around your neck mocking Mike Keenan. You know what I mean?

Yes, this is true. Well, Mike was present or no? Right behind me. He caught him. but that's what happens they the players know what the coach is really like so you're right jay jay uh yeah you're right jb jb jb you're right jb you're right on that 100 and and you can't you're there's no changing. Like, they know what DJ was in Ottawa. They know already what Jock is in Ottawa. And they know what Sheldon is, you know.

And talk has been the same. Talk hasn't changed since he was a player. So, you know, don't fake it. Because if you're a fake, they read it so fast it's scary. And then they have a great time when they go out for a beer, they read it so fast it's scary. And then they have a great time when they go out for a beer after because they're all making fun of you. Mac, as you know, you come to our show to get entertained. Every once in a while there's a little bit of information.

Earlier this week we talked about – I can't get your show down. Well, that's all right. I'll tell you all about it. Willie Nylander, we talked midweek about an eight-year deal north of $11 million. You know what? I've got to tell you, I did see that,

and I watched and listened to it when you broke the story, and I was really proud of you. Because as an insider, you've sort of slipped in. No, I'm retired. You're like some of the players when they're placed slippy, they're slippy. You slipped on the insider stuff. And I was really, I was really blown away with that. You came across strong. Thank you. All right. But what,

but what bothers me is everybody in hockey, the LeBruns and the Johnsons. Oh, yeah. Okay. All our friends, Mac. All our friends. They forgot your name when they're writing about him. The only guy that gave you any credit was Howard Berger. So, you know what?

Mac. I mean, you broke the biggest story of the hockey. Mac, stop it. The biggest story of the hockey mac stop it biggest story of the hockey year you're broken we're all in this together so hey no we're not so tell me something hold on ever tell me that uh this summer if i told you that willie nylander was going to sign minimal 88 90 maybe more for eight years. You would have said that's the craziest thing you ever heard of, right? Not so much now.

I definitely would have said it. It's the craziest thing that I would have ever heard. Yeah, for sure. The guy has, and I've talked about it for five years, that he's the one piece they can trade for the defensemen they're going to need to play against Florida. You know, a real defenseman, if they can even get the right guy for him. But he has been so damn good. It's been unbelievable.

He has been so dynamic off the rush. He's so dynamic at making big plays at big times in the game. He's been that good, by far well matthews has been real good too matthews has been just terrific to watch too and i love the even morgan riley i love what he's brought to the table but look uh it comes back to the same thing give them the 11 million they've got no choice tree living is no choice but to pay them because they've got to keep them the problem is how do you build the winner how do you build a winner when you got to go against a deep team like florida now or you've got to move on in the playoffs if they beat them it's really tough boys to build a team especially with the back end the way their back end is

and with their gold tenant as a youngster in goal wall who's been terrific i love him i love what he's brought to the table but he's a kid going against bobroski in the playoffs in all likelihood that's that's that's a little nerve wracking so given 11 million they got no choice taveras leaves eventually but how do you build a winner i i i i can't figure it out. Well, you know, even looking at the rest of this year in terms of what they would need to add, are they better off trying to add some of what Florida has,

some of that grit, or do you want to go the other way and not play Florida's game and try to, you know, they didn't score enough in playoffs last year. What are you looking for the Leafs to do here in the months ahead? You know, we keep hearing Tana,'s name, Tanev's name. I mean, is that going to happen? I mean, that type of guy would be a plus. What is Tanev now?

A number three, four guy? I mean, does that help them? The price is going to be exorbitant for that. I'd rather have a guy that's a better skater maybe than Tanev. I mean, you know, I hannifin's there too i i really think they desperately have to add a couple of blue liners uh and not and not average below average guys you know they've got it they've got to be better there and you know i i don't know you say they're better off not to play Florida's game. Do you think for a minute that Florida's not going to drag them into that game?

Do you not think whoever plays the Leafs in the first round is going to do everything in their power to drag them into that street fight? Sorry, Jen. They're going to drag them into a street fight. I'm telling you. Mac. And that's the way they got to coach against them. I think it's safe to say that we were all impressed with that total 60-minute game in California, in LA versus the Kings.

If they can master that type of style of play throughout their roster, does that in itself help them against a team like florida yeah that was a that was a great game by the least was that maybe one of the the best 60 minute efforts you've seen from that hockey team and in a long time where they did everything playoff style and you know what you're going in against la who have been really good at times not as good lately but really a good solid team really strong down the middle with their star power there and their checking ability i i was i thought it was really impressive and even the anaheim game i

mean they dominated they dominated so two really good performances, you know, on the West Coast. And I mean, that's, unfortunately, that's the way they've got to play. And it's uncomfortable to play like that, guys. It's uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, Kip, I don't know if you want to keep it on the Leafs. Do you mind if I take it somewhere else here? Anywhere, buddy.

Mac, I got to get your thoughts on Ryan Hartman and Cole Perfetti and what happened there. It obviously became a hot-but button issue up here in Canada. Are you in Canada? Probably not right. You're in Florida. Big deal in Canada right now. That play.

Just a minute. No, I see the ocean. It's in PEI, isn't it? You know what? I, I don't like,

I don't like when, when you've, you've got, you know, a targeted situation. I don't like when you've got a targeted situation. I don't like that. I don't know if that really happened or what it happens. But I know this is the National Hockey League. And I'll never forget Chuck Fletcher coming down. He was assistant GM in Florida when I was coaching. And he came down after the game.

He said, we just lost 2-1 to New Jersey. Jacques Demers, New Jersey Devils. We lost 2-1 in a hard-fought, battle, vicious game. And I forget Chuck coming into the coach's room. I'm saying to Lindy and I and Dwayne Sutter, wasn't any emotion or any intensity out there. And I looked at him and I was like, I wanted to punch him in the head. I thought, are you kidding me?

It was a war down there. It was a war. It was vicious. It was a hard-fought game. When you're on the bench and you're in the fight, it's a lot different than being in the press box or watching on TV. It's a tough, tough game out there. And things happen. Things happen. And yeah, lots of things you're not happy about,

but things happen in the heat of the battle, especially as you move into the second part of the season and then the playoffs, it goes to another level. It's look at guys are playing for their careers people forget making the nhl is really really unbelievably tough and i admire anybody that makes the nhl but staying in the nhl is even tougher boys so it's even tougher and you got to do what it takes to stay there just to follow up your your just your last comments about how things happen, and usually it was a mystery sometimes to the viewer that they didn't know the reasons why. But now we mic guys up

or we have cameras following them, and they know, and they don't like it. And as a general manager, a president, I mean, where are you on making the guys up so they know exactly what's said or done or the reasons why is that selling our game or is it hurting our game? I'll never forget. I was sitting there. I'm not sure it was a GM's meeting or board of governors meeting. And Gary Bettman was trying to sell us on getting the players more involved with the media, like miking them up and interviews on the bench.

And he was showing us clips of the F1, the race car drivers that are driving at 300 miles an hour and they're talking on there while they're driving. He said, Gary said, if they can do it, we can do it, can't we? And I'm thinking, oh, my God, what have we got going on here? Like, seriously. I mean, I give up. We're pretty much there now, aren't we? Oh, no, we're race car drivers, and we've got to touch a Barbie and Ken with us as well.

You know, it's like crazy. Anyway. All right, one last thought. I got to get your thoughts on ottawa because there was so much new owner a billionaire owner is going to come in he's going to change everything uh jock martin's in there he's going to change everything uh no everything kind of looks the same here in ottawa yeah, everything, it's sad. It's really hard to watch.

And I really had them, and we had talked about a team taking a big step, and I really believe they would. And you know, Nick, we spent a lot of time talking about Ottawa this summer. And you know what? I look at them and I'm looking, okay, Stutzel, not anywhere close to where he was, guys.

This guy looked to me like he's going to be a superstar you got Kachuk not paying any attention in his own end like playing a loose game and you know I I I look at Norris supposed to be a star not playing anywhere close to where he's supposed to play and I know their Pinto is a loss and they're they're down the middle Shabbat has not been very good Chik chicken has not been very good their goaltending has been abysmal there's something of a rye here is it is there no trust in the room and now all of a sudden here here's where it really starts to break down when you start reading in the paper that you're there we're going to go after the core of this team,

we have to change the core of this team, what do you think that happens to the players in the dressing room when that starts to be the number one discussion point? And they're going to have to change the core, by the way. There's going to have to be some changes. Wow. Anyone off the top that you would think would be expendable? Well, Shabbat, to me, is a guy that you've got to move for me. He hasn't played a playoff game in what, seven, eight years?

He's played in the NHL. Hold on. Money wise. He's got to be a guy. Keep Chikrin. Keep Chikrin. Resign Chikrin. Get rid of Shabbat is your suggestion.

I may consider moving both of them. I like, I like checkering as a kid. I like, but I, he just hasn't, he hasn't played very well there guys. He has not played very well. And I, you know, their goaltending is a major issue. Every goaltender that leaves Ottawa becomes a good goalie in the league or pretty good goalie in the league. pretty good goalie in the league. But when you're in Ottawa,

you're they're shooting balloons through you. I mean, they have, they've, they've been terrible. They've been terrible. I'm sorry. So there's a lot of work to do there.

And you know what? I hope I happen to like Steve Stales. I like Davey pooling and I love jock. I, but something's got to give here, boys. It's not pretty. All right. Well, we'll let you go. Shoot another. God, I'm glad

you didn't get the team. I don't have to worry about it. And leave all of this. Are you kidding me, Mac? I would never do that. Hey, thanks for doing this. Congrats on your 79, 80.

All right, pal. Off the rails with Doug McClay. Thanks, Mac. All right. Great finish to the first hour, and we're going to come back. Head coach of the Edmonton Oilers live. He was this close to giving us the, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall speech during that clip.

Real Kipper and Bourne after the break.