Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Dominance in the Desert

Episode Date: February 23, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' win last night over the Golden Knights in Vegas. They get into one of the season's most impressive wins, a more balanced line rotation, how the Rielly/Greig incident rallied the team, Domi's expanded role and Rielly's return. Then, a wider view of the roster as is and why their recent win streak reinforces an 'all-in' approach to the deadline. They are joined by the Athletic's Joshua Kloke (35:59), who shares his thoughts on a more relaxed vibe around the Leafs' locker room, how this recent stretch has impacted their deadline plans and the evolution of their leadership group.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it's friday off the rails you guys ready hey snap out of it what about you it's friday all right all right nick kiprios justin board sammy mckee derrick brandeo jen rolnick with you for the next two hours. We get you teed up for a great weekend where we get to kind of relax. Yeah. Late nights. Late night games. Yeah. Last couple nights have been late.

Leafs on the West Coast, 10 o'clock. Not a huge fan. No. There was a point in my life where I was a night owl and I resisted the bedtime thing. Not anymore. No. I can't fight it. Those days are gone, man.

And I'm happy they are. When I was younger, I loved these games. I really did. And I still, like, if I did have to do a, you know. Post game. An hour, not an hour, but a half hour after the game, I'd probably even like it a little bit more. But it's just too late. It just started at nine.

You know, they do it in Vancouver at four o'clock. Why can't we get puck drops at four? Yeah, just do it everywhere for the Leafs. They matter the most, so just make it 4 o'clock I can't get puck drops at 4 They matter the most so just make it 4 o'clock everywhere It's the Leafs hour I agree So when we started the show a couple years ago It was like what time did we start Like at 1 in the afternoon 2 That's right 2

Remember that We were never 1 We were 1 to 3 and then we were 3 to 5 Now we're 4 to 6 That's too late We were 1 to, and then we were three to five. Now we're four to six. That's too late. Hold on. We were one to three? We were one to three.

We were one to three. And then we were three to five. I don't remember one to three, boys. Wow, that's bad. No recollection of that. I don't think we were. No, we were always three to five until this year, boys. We got everybody watching and listening going,

I don't know what time it is right now. And nor do I care. Fabbro, if you're listening. I actually now that we're having a conversation, I think it was 2 to 4, but anyway. Well, we're glad everybody's on board. Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6, YouTube.

You can download us if you don't catch us live. And remember, especially on Off the Rails Friday, to text us at 590-590 because we want to hear from you as we run out of gas at about 140 142. Our clocks are all scrambled here.

You're on Pacific time. And now we're in 42 minutes of this show. No, no, no, no. We're good now. We got energy now. Not as much as the Toronto Maple Leafs had on back-to no, no. We're good now. We got energy now. Sure. Not as much as the Toronto Maple Leafs had on back-to-back nights. What a hockey club. What a hockey team.

I don't want to, you know, I'm not one of those guys that says, let's go back to the tape. And I said it. Derek, find it for me. The Don Cherry? Yeah, a little. I'm going a little grapes right now on you guys. I told you they're not that far away from a big victory tonight.

And people will be singing a different tune. And guess what? We got Josh Cloak from The Athletic coming up in about, what, 25 minutes? And he's going to tell us how the mode the trade mode has changed now all in baby just like we've been saying all in we should have a show where we just go over things we said that are right since people remind us of the opposite yeah i said that jake mckay might score 10 goals i'm scared they'll pull up they'll pull up the stuff that we got wrong. I know. That's the problem.

Yeah, that's a big problem. So 7-3 win in Vegas. And, Sammy, everybody, the whole world, our whole real Kipper and Bourne world want to know, like, you've got a different feel today. I know you. What do you mean? They're sucking you back in.

Do you believe? Last night was a stunning result i you left last night's show or left her show and you said no you they're gonna lose tonight i really thought they would like i just thought that it was a a time where they were allowed to take the foot off the gas and we know what they do when they have that chance they oftentimes give us we got a party video going on over there um they uh whenever they have a chance to kind of let them their foot off the gas and they have a little excuse to do it they tend to love to do it and i thought that was going to be the case last night and they come out and they play their best period of the year. They just kicked the crap out of the Golden Knights. I just did not see that coming.

The best goaltender in the league this year by save percentage didn't see the end of the first period. I didn't think it was a great start. No, I thought Vegas had the first few minutes of play. I look back, and we're going to get into more specifics here, but a general comment is that I thought they had, they didn't have a very good start in the first. They let in the early goal in the second.

And then the third had a bad start too. So like you end up winning seven, three against the Stanley cup champions on a night where, you know, three different occasions, you didn't get off to great starts. It was Arizona too. Right.

Where they just like had the game one and then started the second they kind of let a team back in they go we got to turn it on again but nice they can turn it on again the moment jake mccabe got that bounce the floodgates opened up and then it was like this moment yeah do you think it's partially do you think it's related to the lineup to just being different structure guys getting more opportunity? Yeah. Yeah. Yes,

yes, yes, yes, yes, of course. Yeah. Listen, I'm watching it and I'm watching Sheldon roll four lines.

Yeah. And a lot of the times you couldn't tell the drop off is hard for checking pucks to the net goals. Yeah. From five different guys that didn't have the nameplate of Matthews or Nylander. It was good. Yeah.

No, really refreshing. I actually, I'm interested in this Bertuzzi-Domi-Nielander line. I don't know if they defend well enough to use it in playoffs, but boy, do I like it in the regular season. I just, creative, fast. I thought after the whistles, like, you know,

Willie's got to get his face involved because those two, other two guys are jawing at guys. A really fun line. I don't know how long it'll last, but I like it. We talked yesterday about how Bertuzzi hadn't really felt like he was gelling ever on this team and for the last two games

with those two guys it does like not full gel not full dippity do here but it does feel like there has been moments where it feels like he belongs on a line finally until he somewhat puts a puck in the net. I mean, there's always going to be that hanging over him.

Like there's not, we're never going to ever say he's good or it's great now. And it's finally there until he starts crossing the black disc over the red line. Got to push a couple into the net. He's got to push a couple in the net. Sorry to walk it back real quick. You had mentioned time on ice and I'm just looking at the forwards. Marner played the most at 1911 and Reeves played the least at 1240. Everyone was between that.

12 is might be the most minutes he's played. Yeah. Nylander played 1622 Tavares, 1438 Matthews. And those are good numbers. If you can finish a game where the guys feel good and you're not asking three or four guys to

play 24, 25 minutes. That's a great sign for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, really good all around. You know, Riley coming back, we were concerned that he might come back and everyone would look to him to do the work, but I thought he looked great. He had a ton of jump.

Like, he just looked refreshed in a positive way. Just, you know, we're talking about the minutiae of this game. Yeah. But just to zoom out from it, it is hard to believe how much different this team looks right now than even a week ago. And, you know, Ottawa Senators fans probably won't like to hear this, but there is a real chance that, like... Is that the Garrett rank senator fans probably won't like to hear this but there is a real chance that like that the carrot rank line you won't like to hear this you won't like to

hear this but there's a chance that ridley greg being a hot shot saved the leaf season i love this it's that cross check they're playing harder they look different they're getting contributions from all throughout the lineup. They had to be forced into this, but they are a completely different looking team than they have been before this. And it's just, what is the flashpoint moment that changed everything?

I wouldn't I get what you're saying. I'm just saying that it's way too early to, and you tell me what that means for you moving forward here, that they go on a tear the next 26 games. I wrote about this.

This goes to a second round, a conference final. Tell me what this means to you, that moment that you just spoke of into success moving forward that you know it's a team sport and there are certain things that happen over a long season that bring guys together and galvanize a group and make people care for each other and you know Tavares and Marner both getting sick sick in the same game helped where they had to play Bobby McMahon more and it grew from there and all that kind of thing. But it just feels like that is a moment we'll look back on.

And listen, I think they feel more confident playing these other guys in bigger roles than they ever have and it's changed Keefe's outlook. Well, listen. There's a biggest complaint we had for the whole year. They're playing the top guys too much and finally they start to do it, and they start to play well. It doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

No, we have complained, not complained, but noticed that there's Team A and there's Team B, right? That's been like a theme for our show? I think the number one theme of this year. I would 100% agree. That's been our number one theme. It's like, how do you make team b feel like a part of it be invested have some equity in this whole thing and they have a moment where the team all agrees that

they you know riley stands up for them they need to rise up together all of a sudden team b gets some minutes you know marner and tavarez are out so all of a sudden you're playing mcmahon you're playing reeves you're playing holmberg. Team B has had their stock elevated. They have been more a part of the Toronto Maple Leafs. I mean, Austin Matthews having 10 goals in the last five games and Marner having. I do get what you're saying and I'm okay with it, but it kind of, kind of shake my head a little bit

because this is the way it should have been in September to October to November. You're telling me, you're telling me that Sheldon and Brad and Brendan, they needed a five game suspension from their best defenseman and the flu. Yes. To find out how to put it, a contributing team of 20 guys together. That's what you're telling me.

I'm telling you exactly that. I said it last night on Leafs Talk. Okay. If there's one thing you're going to complain about, it's why did it take this long? Yes. Like the process versus result. Yes.

The process versus result conversation here is a very fair one. What took so long? And why did it take your captain barbecuing a guy in the face of the stick to make your – A captain. That's a Freudian slip there. But a guy that should be the captain hammers a guy into the boards. And why does it take that to change your whole outlook?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Hey, be happy it's arrived. If, in fact, it has arrived to stay, and that might be debatable from here on in, is what kind of look do the Leafs get off of this six-game winning streak, and can it be sustained, and is it in them, and who can continue to rise to the next level?

A ton of questions, but for now, let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his thoughts last night in Las Vegas. Well, we got through the first few minutes where, you know, they were really coming at us there, but I thought once we really adjusted to the game, you know, it's a good team over there, quite obviously. And they play at a high level. They compete at a high level. So it demands more of the group.

When we talked about that coming into the game, that's one thing to talk about. It's something to get on the ice and kind of feel your way through that. So I thought once we adjusted to that, we really started to come. We started to skate really well, and this team probably more so than any in the league makes it hard to get to their net. So we had to really be committed to getting to that space, and I thought we did a really good job of it.

Every single line did a really good job. Our defense contributed just getting to the net and stressing their goaltender. So that allowed us to really get going in the game. I mean, same sort of song and dance from him that we have to say, right? I mean, it took him a little while to get going, but it looked really good. We've got him on a number of things, contributions from the depth and Morgan Riley,

which I want to hear both of those. Is there a direction you want to go next? No, I'm good. All right. Lead us. Yeah, let's talk about contributions from the depth and Morgan Riley, which I want to hear both of those. Is there a direction you want to go? No, I'm good. All right. Lead us. Yeah. Let's talk about contributions from the depth, and we can do even Domi after that.

I'll start with clip two, though. Yeah, it's been great. I mean, it felt like our depth could be a real factor here today. Obviously, they're shorthanded up front and missing four forward, so that takes a significant chunk out of their depth. So you had a pretty good feeling that if our guys could get going, they'd have a good chance to make a real impact in the game here tonight. And that's how it's worked out.

Obviously, for a game like this against a team like that, to have those guys contributing on different lines and have the camp line have the type of night that they did really really good for our team and I really feel like I don't know how sustainable it is

Kip for them to continue to look this way but John Tavares playing third line center is it gives you a threat in the bottom six that you haven't had. And it really seems to have given some life to the guys that you're playing a little bit more. Yeah. And we spoke about this yesterday in our show. I think he's handled it really well.

And I probably would imagine that this is the first time in his life, and I'll go back to the moment that he first put on skates, that he's been demoted or told that you no longer are considered our top centerman or top two centerman at this point. And it can go two ways with him. And so far he's been an absolute pro about it. Yeah. And I, and I,

I, I can see, you can see that there's a sense of urgency in his, in his play too. Like he is working his ass off out there and it's just not a given that you're going to, you're going to be rolled out in all the key situations anymore. And there's a sense of urgency in his game, which I also like.

It just feels like you've been fighting it as the Toronto Maple Leafs, fighting it to make it like we're paying this guy 11 million bucks. So he's at least the second line center. And we need to force this sort of square peg into the round hole. And it feels like the second they said, maybe that's just not the best fit at this point. And they were a little bit more honest with his usage he's responded really well and yeah everything just seems to slot in a little bit better between matthews and and tavars for three quarters of

the season it's max max domi at 10 minutes 11 minutes 9 minutes 10 It's like, it's not going to work. You got to change something up. Yep. And so Domi plays like 15 minutes last night, gets his opportunity with Nylander and Bertuzzi. Two goals, five shots in that time. I mean, almost seems a little bit rejuvenated here mid-season. Let's listen to Sheldon Clip for on Max Domi.

He's been great. He's been great. He's been working. Today he scores great goals for us, but he's also, like his checking defensively, coming back and tracking and getting back above the puck and using his speed and tenacity to close and kill plays defensively, I think has been tremendous.

And that's what's going to allow him to continue to play a role in a situation like that. When he's skating and competing at that level, he can play against anybody in the league. And we've seen what he can contribute offensively, whether it's scoring like he has tonight or making plays and facilitating for others. And that, I think, was also a big concern over the season

was defensively for Max. And if he can keep it simple and make the high percentage plays, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, the high percentage plays is good. I'd like to see him doing that. What worries me is that defensive stuff when you get in the playoffs against a good team. Because like you, it's always's always okay how does this translate to a first round series against the bruins and charlie coil who's their second line center or whatever you know and

it's it's a bigger ask for sure scored a gorgeous goal last night yeah yeah i mean backhand talk beautiful good player big guy yeah you know and so you're trying to picture how that that works but either way can i good good sign yeah domi's speed is something that i feel like is an under talked or underappreciated is maybe the wrong word but under talked about thing with this team because i feel like it's a pretty slow team in general like when you it doesn't feel like they are you know a bunch of burners but it was nice to see him show off that speed when i don't know what happened at the blue line but both guys were like i forgot what to do with the puck it's a lazy fly ball you got it i got it you got it i got it nobody's got the grass and and domi took advantage made a nice finish but you really got to see his

speed there it's a it's a nice thing for that nice finish really nice i will say though the first one it does speak to like i still feel like he has a lack of offensive confidence like that he catches that one and he holds it for so long and he bangs it into the goalie. He gets it back and he's trying to pass that to Pertuzzi, right? He's trying to, so like he ends up getting a bounce and getting,

okay, I got one and feeling good. I think it's great that he went out and scored again after that. Cause he even said after the game, like, you know, I think he said something like I could have one time that one, you know,

give myself a better chance at it. You know, he said he froze. He said his controller his controller froze yeah so there's something we also have a domey clip a surprise clip oh i didn't put this one i just saw it right before coming on air so i got it but he got asked after the game about what he thought of matthew's selkie candice candidacy and i thought you guys would really like the answer that he gave you want to play that clip derrick let's do it he deserves to be in the selkie conversation as well do you agree with that what do you say we do not care about those kind of awards it's irrelevant we're worried about one thing one thing only so we'll focus on that

interesting yeah i'm just looking right now uh great answer it is yeah great answer yeah i feel like that's not an answer that has been given on this team a lot feels like a lot of people would just kind of wax poetic about it and i've have you ever heard a guy say that i'm scrambling to find the article it's in but jake mccabe was not asked about Matthews in his Selkie, but he's asked about Matthews. And he said, I think he deserves to be talked about in the Selkie conversation. So basically said the opposite. Unprompted went on to talk about Matthews

as why he should be in the Selkie conversation. Well, it might be Luke Fox's article in SportsZone. Okay. Yeah. Anyways. Well, I just thought that was an interesting answer. Kind of off, off brand for them say that but anyways that's good it's a team answer you got 22 guys on the roster there's a very good

chance you're going to get 22 different opinions sometimes but yeah i i think max I think Max's comment is a nice reminder to the players as well that we're all failures if we're out in the first or go away quietly in the second round again. Hard to rock at the Ted Lindsey and the Selke. And no one's going to give a crap. McCabe said he should be in the Selke conversation too, frankly. I mean, the guy's stick is unbelievable. He's super responsive.

It's a hole. It's the one they were trying to get don't so he so basically mccabe said it yeah and then luke's like that's a good angle i'm gonna go ask max about it and then got an even better answer luke fox what a reporter he's what a reporter so i mean there's a lot of different places you want to go. You want to do Morgan Riley before we take just a blanket feel of this lineup moving forward? Do you want to hear Bruce Cassidy call the Leafs men against boys? Yes.

Let's do the Bruce Cassidy clip. It looked like men against boys there for a stretch of about 10 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever it was. And then certainly tried to battle back, but we didn't execute well enough to do that. Not often you get the Leafs called down against the top contender. That's why I put it in there. I think that's the first time ever.

Yeah. And I don't think they're exactly, he's happy with the stretch. I think they've lost four out of five now. Four in a row at home. Four in a row at home. And the game they won, they beat San Jose. Yeah. I think that's a comment that he wants to send a bigger

message over the course of probably a week and a half, two weeks. Morgan Riley, you okay? It's nice that he doesn't have to feel like he disrupted a good thing going for the Toronto Maple Leafs. There's also that feel that they had to keep Brody on the left side,

so they put him with, who was he with last night? Lagason. Lagason last night, which at the end of the day, you don't really think that's a pair you're going to start in the first round of the playoffs. But it's kind of interesting that your best defenseman would have a feel of a third pairing guy. He played three minutes less than Timothy Lilligren last night.

Riley played like 1830 to Lilligren's 21. Yeah, but Lilligren's skating right now and he's feeling it. Sheldon wants to roll with him a little bit here. You know, that was part of my article today when you're looking for things out of this break that like, what can you take into the playoffs? I can see this version of Lilligran in playoffs. I can see him where he's

defending coolly off the Russian Arizona guy who skates really well, you know, going back on pucks and skating it out of the end. He looks like a guy they could play. They haven't played him in playoffs much at all. I think maybe Lilligan playing that much. How much did Brody play? 20.

I think 22. He's had a huge turnaround here. I think the coach loves playing him on the left side. Yeah. And he seems to be the most trusted guy. He's something like plus 14 in the last couple of weeks. Yeah, seven games, one goal against 14-4. Really?

Yeah. Oh, my God. No wonder he's playing them so much. That's huge for them. I mean, getting him into a better place. And that was part of the article, too. I can see now, okay, you had Chris Tanev, and you do Riley Tanev.

Yes. You know, Brody Lilligren, McKay Benoit. You absolutely need a right-handed, and you do Riley Tanev, Brody Lilligren, McKay Benoit, pretty good. You absolutely need a right-handed top four guy for Morgan Riley. I think you need Tanev specifically. I can't see anyone who is like him, who's available, who kills penalties. Oh, 680 News traffic. You want me to do a helicopter sound?

Yeah. But I was thinking, like, end of game, you're up a goal, you're trying to protect a lead. Luke Shen had been out there last year in those moments. Brody had been reliable. Like, you don't really have a ton of those guys. Someone like Tanev was blocking shots. God, it would make you feel good in those moments, wouldn't it?

Yeah. You add Tanev to the way this team's playing right now, and it's a long time before the playoffs here. So that has to be said that, you know, there's an argument to be made about peaking at the wrong time and getting hot at the wrong time. But as presently constituted, you add Tanev to this. It just doesn't sound like it's going to happen.

What? Yeah. No. Someone told me the other day Leafs are on the outside looking in on on Tanaf they're they're not they're not close with the contenders right now so unwilling to part with the first I hope that's not the case I don't know whether it's that or not And I don't know. No one's told me specifically. I've got no basis other than a feel that Calgary may be still a little touchy on. Tree?

Tree. Red tree living. Oh, my. Yeah. And Zdorov was a guy that was talked about a lot. I'm glad that didn't work. There was a sense that Calgary was a lot happier to deal with Vancouver than they would have back with Toronto when that deal went down.

They'll never say it, but I'm sure they feel it. You okay giving up a first for chris tan of i am my answer is different than a week ago well i will say assuming he'd resign here which you know he lives nearby he you know toronto guy i think that would be a given yeah that would be given that you have to get him down on a three or four year deal. Yeah. And I think for a first, that works for me because the first isn't, you know, 10th or even 20th.

It might be 25th or something, you know, is that enough right now? When you think about this leaf D Chris Tanov, it's enough barring everyone playing well and staying healthy. You know, the second you need, well,

that's, that has Jordan on the outside. If they win the Stanley Cup, yes, it will be enough. No, but I'm saying if they have an injury, it's Giordano in, right? You know, or Benoit in, whatever. So you're still okay, but... Gio can still be there as a depth guy.

Absolutely. But they get slower with Gio on that blue line. Yeah, but Tim Rest, I think, might be, you know, not as slow, right? Like, he played, what, 80 games last year? I don't know, and played a lot of minutes. Yes, and ran out of gas quickly. Yeah.

That's, I think, what you, your ideal scenario for him is a guy that you can mix in for a game or two in the playoffs sort of thing. Yeah, Giordano in a game, you'll find out about it. So, yeah, I think Tanev and then one more sort of depth type guy would make you feel better. The other thing I want, though, is a guy that kind of takes Domi out of that 2C spot, which is okay.

No, I want to save that because that's the big picture right now. But before that, why don't we go to Sheldon Keefe and just talk and hear him on his description of where the team is compared to the rest of the season so far. Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, especially with the consistency, right? We've been talking about consistency being the difference. We've played good hockey over the course of the season,

but we haven't put together a stretch like this. So that's what's been tremendous. Obviously the response of losing Morgan as we did and then the illness and injuries and things that we've been dealing with. The guys haven't been phased. They've just been growing in their game one game at a time. Tonight's game we felt was going to require more than what we've been doing in previous games.

We had to be even better, and I thought that we were. So that was great. There you go. Good vibes all around. Have they been as good earlier in the year as they are now? No. Because I don't see that. They may have won a lot of games just on their skill and talent.

You know, they've – think back to some of those games they came back in the last minute and got into overtime. But this is the best they've looked. I mean, Kip has beaten up the story for a while that they didn't win in regulation. They've won five of their last six in regulation and running away with it. Keefe complained for a while they couldn't pull in regulation. They won five of their last six in regulation and running away with it. Keefe complained for a while.

They couldn't pull away from a game. They've won by, what was it, four last night, three the other night. Like they're handling their business. Seven against the Ducks. Plus 20 goal differential in the last six games. So we got Joshua Cloak in a few minutes here and he's going to talk about the Leafs' approach

to the trade deadline and how significant does it change over the course of maybe six games so I will go back to you before I rudely interrupted you on Max Domi in the second spot the third line now

that looks like Tavares, McMahon and Robertson and Kampf and Holmberg and where is this lineup for you playing like they did last night going into a first or second round with the potential of facing a Florida Panther team? Yeah, if you check my sportsnet.ca, my article is up now where I talk about some potential lines. Tavares playing 3C to me.

If you, Yarn crock will be back so if you did mcmahon tavara's yarn crock don't you like that doesn't that sound like a good third line i'm okay yeah like that's a pretty good group that's a checking line uh you know can can they get their noses dirty every once in a while because that is a big thing in the playoffs, is your third line has to have a little bit of that snot. So I think they've got 25 games to prove that they can take that kind of edge to another level. But I don't mind it for now, based on Bobby McMahon's confidence and size, skating.

Yeah, he can lean on people. He can, but let's say it were like even nice Tavares, Yarncroft, and it weren't like a super heavy checking line or something. And you did McMahon, Camp Holmberg as a fourth line. That line could lean on someone. But to me, all that is dependent on kind of getting Domi out of that 2C spot. Like if you got Adam Henrik, if you traded for him. Yeah.

You know, you do. Another first rounder. Yeah. Well, you know, we'll worry about the prices a little bit later but you know when you had Domi Matthews Marner Bertuzzi Henrik Nylander like Bertuzzi Henrik Nylander to me I really like and that changes all of a sudden you puts guys in a good third line position it's one trade away and I know it's costly but it is razor minton a first you know can you tan a van henrik yes for me domi i just i worry about him and that is the center in the playoff yeah i i think uh first round all you need to know there is the market yeah

adam henryk is considered better and more valuable well than sean monahan if i'm looking at the least pick situation and if it's going to be you're going to trade two first round picks and it's going to be tanev and adam Adam Henrik on your team, I think you'd probably want bigger upgrades than that, to be honest with you. But that's, I guess, the price of doing business around this time of year. But it's definitely a scary outlook. Henrik is going to be a rental, guys. And he kills penalties.

The Leafs are 22nd in penalty killing. So is Tanev. It improves your team in areas you need help. It's not just a luxury item. Yeah. But yeah, he's straight rental. Like you're not retaining him. Have I told you, I think Holmberg is a pretty good player.

Did I ever mention that to you guys? That's come up. Yeah. Remember like, you know, I'm like, why wouldn't a team just sign this guy? I do remember that. He sure shot it right into the net last night. That was nice. That was a goal scorer's goal.

Him and Matthews have a little chemistry too. Yeah, the big guys like him. They do. You can tell. They pass to him. Do you ever, like, Marner's comments about him, like, they love him. Yeah.

And they absolutely, okay, for all their overpriced, people think that, you know, the guys make too much money, they hogged all the money. They absolutely stole this guy this summer at $800, $800 for two years. It's, like, crazy. Yeah. When they said that, when he got beat out by Frazier Minton in camp. God, that's tough to look back on.

Guys, he didn't. That never happened. It's just whatever they said. It's just whatever narrative they put out. Why do you think the Minton thing happened, looking back at it? Do you think it was for world juniors? Do you think it was for trade value? Do you think it was for experience?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. All of that. All of it, yes. And listen. None of it was this guy helps us win sooner that. All of it, yes. And listen. None of it was this guy helps us win sooner than. The guy did show well. He did a great job. And I think it's not a stretch to say we're going to reward him

or we're going to show other people that you can do this too. Like it was, I'm okay with that narrative, that storyline, but Holmberg, to me, should have been a guy that would have left you an easy decision to not pay Kampf 2.4. That guy should be right there

on that fourth hole minimum with the ability to move up. They should have groomed him. What, like Kampf Wach? Absolutely. What did Kampf have last year? 15 goals? Best penalty killer on the team?

I'm not paying Kampf $2.5 million. I'm sorry. I would love the $2.5 right now to go get some help. And Holmberg would have been right there. But it's water under the bridge. I think it's a better conversation about, you know, why are we giving David camp a pass for just falling off this year?

Yeah. He has not been half as effective. Best game of the year. Last night. It was awesome last night, but that's when you see him play well, it's like, Oh,

right. But that's really nice. Eventually there's not, there's you're going to, you're going to trade for some guys. You're going to have to move some of these guys out. They're all not going to be there. Was it 2.4 for four years?

Yeah, it was almost $10 million. I would have gone homeburg. Say, hey, listen, Kemp, great. Thanks for coming by. We're not committing $10 million to you. Thanks for coming by. I think you're right. That makes sense to me. Yeah. But anyways. I think you're right. That makes sense to me.

Yeah. But anyways. Let's hit a break. All right. Oh, geez. Yeah, we're late. Yeah, we got to go. Leafs start winning, eh?

And just time flies. Time flies. It's a lot of fun. All right. Joshua Cloak, as we said, will come back after the break. He's going to tell us what changed in the last six games to now push the Leafs towards the trade deadline. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.

Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the Leafs, Jays, Raptors, and the NFL. The J.D. Bunkins Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Without hesitation, let's throw it to Denver, Colorado. Joshua Cloak, Leaf writer for The Athletic, joins us from a sunny patio, maybe?

Definitely maybe. We're at Cerebral Brewing here in Denver. When the Leafs get a day off, so do we. But I would interrupt all of it to join you two. Oh, no, that's awesome. Thanks for joining us, man. When the Leafs win, it just makes your job that much easier, doesn't it? It does.

It's the simple things. I was having a conversation with one of the veterans on the team just about where they were at going into the game in Arizona and asking him about, you know, the day off that they had at Austin Matthews House. And it was the most relaxed I'd seen that team in months. And I just kind of asked him why. And he just said, it's incredible what a little bit of vitamin D will do to you. And that has just kind of permeated, you know, throughout the team over the last few days. They just, the Leafs are, it's never not tense around the Maple Leafs.

But this week in particular, they just, they sound, they look, they feel so much more relaxed. And I think we can see that in the way they're playing right yeah i mean vitamin d helps winning goes a long way too who do you think is feeling the most relief uh with a little bit of success here oh unquestionably sheldon keith right now yeah right like how how how long ago were people calling for his head i mean people always call for for people's heads on twitter but um you know it wasn't that long ago were people calling for his head? I mean, people always call for people's heads on Twitter, but, you know, it wasn't that long ago that people were wondering

if a coaching change was going to be necessary. People were wondering if Sheldon Keefe was the right person to kind of lead this team forward. But what's interesting here is how much kind of goodwill Sheldon Keefe has bought within the team over the last week. As of a few weeks ago as probably about two weeks ago they were scheduled to practice during their day off in Arizona and Keefe called an audible and gave you know the team the day off so they could all go to Austin Matthews

pad my understanding is Shane Doan had all the coaches over in his place in Arizona these are intangible things but these kind of team building things go a long way with the team to say, okay, the coach trusts us to give us a day off. We've got to hold up our end of the bargain. So I think Sheldon Keith is feeling really good. And it's interesting too, when you look at last night's game, you have Morgan Riley coming back. And that was a big question going into the game is Sheldon Keith going to

mess with, you know, the two pairs pairs Simone Benoit, Jake McCabe, Timothy Lilligren and TJ Brody these are pairs that worked really well is he going to mess with them because we know Sheldon Keefe in the past has liked to tinker he's liked to move things around he kept it really simple he kept Morgan Riley out with with William Logeson and he kept those pairs together and the Leafs had one of their best games of the season so I think you're seeing a far more relaxed Sheldon Keefe right now and and yeah so to answer your question he's he's the one feeling the least amount of heat right now we're talking to Joshua Cloak Leaf writer for the athletic uh in your latest article Josh you spoke of the leafs playing their best hockey this season and you also left it out there will it affect their approach their approach to the trade deadline so

will it if you had asked me that a week ago i would have said i i think they just hold and try and maybe build around the periphery and add you you know, that maybe like a sixth defenseman, that type of player, and that's it. Because if you looked at that roster and you looked at the way that they were playing, you would have said, I don't know if I'm seeing a group here that I would go all in on the way that, you know, Kyle Dubas went all in on the team in 21 and 23. But then you look at the way that Austin Matthews is playing. You look at the depth scoring that they've gotten over the last few games and you start to say, well, if they're starting to put it together, maybe we owe it to this core. And by we, I mean Leafs management. Maybe they owe it to this core to say,

we're only going to get so many years where a player is scoring, you know, 70 plus goals in a year shouldn't we shouldn't we double down on that um i don't think they're inclined as my understanding is that they're not inclined to move easton cowan or fraser minton you know they're two best prospects right now the first round pick my understanding is probably only going to be in play if it's not for a rental. So maybe you look at this team a little bit differently and say, if they're figuring it out and if they're playing to their potential, perhaps we owe it to them. Because you could argue through December and January, they were not playing to their potential.

Look, you've been around that team for some years now. And when different guys come in it changes the vibe the different personalities right joe thornton and been there and marlo's been there and you know spets uh you know big big personalities at times how does this year's team feel different from previous versions what sort of personalities are at play there that maybe make this team unique to previous runs they've been on it It just feels a lot more businesslike. You know, they always kind of added those pieces. You mentioned Thornton, Marleau.

I put Wayne Simmons in there. Foligno as pieces that they brought in to kind of boost the morale of the group and add that kind of leadership piece that I think that they were missing. I think they look at this group now and say, this team is not young anymore, right? They're all kind of leaders in their own right. Again, I brought it up before, but I think it's really interesting. I think Austin Matthews is looking, sounding, and acting like a leader

in a way that he hasn't in years past. It's simple things like saying, I'm going to have everyone over to my house um in arizona for an entire day day and a half um because this i feel that confident kind of being the face of this team um so i i just don't think they feel the need to supplement with that type of player anymore one player that i've been talking to a lot and who sounds and again looks and feels more comfortable than he has when he was acquired as jake mccabe right when he was acquired i think they looked at him and said he can be that jake muzzin type

that grizzled veteran but it never really clicked last season he was playing his first playoff games jake mccabe is playing his best hockey as a leaf right now and he's far more comfortable standing in front of the cameras which is not an easy thing to do in Toronto but he is he seems a lot more comfortable being a voice within this team and it's a gruff hardened voice but you know when you look at last night their best game of the season one of their best games of the season Jake McCabe is the one coming out and saying when we're all playing confident when we're all feeling it we're a scary team and that's what's been missing so far this this season is as well as they've played they haven't yet had someone come out and kind of put the stamp on things and saying we're a good team we deserve to be thought of as a good team. And that's what I took away from Jake McCabe, again, coming out

and just kind of fortifying that confidence around this team right now. I don't know if it's been lost in all of this, but just the fact that Mitch Marner is also playing the best hockey, I think, of his career. And we know he's on a multiple assist run of six straight games, only longer streak in NHL history is eight by Wayne Gretzky. Like, that's just phenomenal numbers, but it's just these subtle little plays he makes,

even in his own zone, to send them off and running on goals. I mean, the leadership group is at their all-time high right now. But isn't, and this is just my theory, you guys can choose to disagree, but isn't it a little bit better when Mitch Marner isn't the focal point of the conversation? Because I find when Mitch Marner spends a little too much time in front of the cameras and he says things about how,

you know, we don't look at social media, but we know the entire world is against us. Like that's when you feel like the world is kind of crowding in on Mitch Marner. And that's when he doesn't play as best. Like he's at his best when the weight of the world isn't on his shoulders. And we haven't spoken as much to Mitch. And like you said, like we're not talking about him as much much I don't think that's the worst thing let him play, let him do what he does

best which is kind of create magic in the offensive zone so you're right, we haven't been talking about the fact that game after game he's putting up multi-point performances but if we're not talking about it and those performances keep coming

I think that's going to suit Sheldon Keefe and the Leafs management. And to be frank, Mitch Barner, I think that's going to suit him fine. For sure. And last one for me, just your thoughts on Tavares playing third line and the second power play unit, what that can do for a guy like Bertuzzi and how I would say Tavares has handled it pretty well. Yeah, I think that move is a little less about demoting John Tavares and more about promoting Tyler Bertuzzi.

Like, he's still not where he needs to be. And we're not talking about it as much because they're winning hockey games. But if the Leafs are going to do anything in the playoffs, they need the kind of secondary scoring that they got yesterday. And Tyler Bertuzzi's season to this point in Toronto has been something of a disappointment just because of the production. So Sheldon keeps a smart guy. He knows that the best way to get that production is to build the player up.

He's hardly been as critical of him as he has of other players. And I think that's because he's learned with Tyler Bertuzzi. He's the type that needs to be built up, needs a bit of the arm around the shoulder, needs to be given those opportunities. Because the chances have come. The conversion rate just hasn't been there. So I don't look at it as John Tavares is falling off.

I think it's just a matter of doing everything possible to put Tyler Bertuzzi in the right situations. And look, if you're Sheldon Keefe, you feel good about that because he did something similar with Max Domi. And Max Domi has his first multi-goal game last night. And Max Domi is playing with the kind of snarl that, you know, we all thought he would show from game one. So I think, you know,

Sheldon Keefe has learned enough about his players to know which players need an arm around the shoulder, which ones need a kick in the behind. You know, I would put Timothy Lillard in that group as well. Like he's, he was, he's flourished without Morgan Riley. So kudos to keith and i i think we're gonna see bertuzzi in that role a little bit more until his his game really takes off the way that that everybody hopes it will josh go and enjoy your your patio and and for the record um were you were you for those of you that uh aren't us on TV, we've got them on Zoom.

Have you been holding up your camera, your phone by hand this whole time? Like, how have I been doing? Like, you haven't had one beer. That's how you're doing. The truth is, I'm holding it with my right arm, and now, you know, it's going to be useless afterwards. All left-handed with the beer. Great job. Enjoy the rest of your day off.

Thanks, boys. Thanks, man. Enjoy. Joshua Cloak from The Athletic. Is that not the best part about being a hockey player? I should say that. One of the better parts about being a hockey player. How does that happen all the time?

It scares me every time. Just going to a city that's warm and being like, oh, oh yeah. You know, like getting to go somewhere. What a delight. Denver, Arizona, Vegas. Hit the hills. You can play golf and ski. Same day in Denver.

Oh, that would be really cool. That's a bucket list. I don't think you can on an NHL contract. I don't think that's cool. It is 12 degrees and sunny in Denver right now. Beautiful. I might be that here, to be honest. Although it's supposed to be like minus 10 by later. I saw somebody tweet, how am I supposed to dress for a day that's

8 degrees and then minus 20 at night? That's a tough one in Toronto today. You could ski in Collingwood and golf right now in Ontario, southern Ontario, the way it's going. I'm not sure the super at Rosedale would like you hacking on the fairway right now. Lakeview? Yeah.

Not yet. I don't have enough sway there. Sammy, you've been sporting the Blue Jay hat. Look at this, brand new. What do you think? This bucket. I just think Hope Springs Eternal, buddy. And it's the sun's out.

They play their first spring game tomorrow that you can hear right here on SportsCenter 590 The Fan. And we're back. Is that an official hat that they'll be wearing this year? No. No, it's just a hat. It's a hat with their logo. You like it?

Yeah, I do. Oh, okay. I'm okay with it. Good. Sam has 5,000 hats. Yeah, I do. He's going to divorce me. 5,000 hats.

Only 200. Our thanks to Joshua Cloak. Coming up next, yes, Off the Rails Friday, led by none other than Doug McClain. He missed last week. I can't wait to see what is up next.

When we return, Doug McClain.