Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Early Playoff Outlook

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee are back after a brief break for the NBA trade deadline. They start with the Leafs' win over the Stars on Wednesday night, the passion of the McCabe/Benoit pairing, overreliance on the stars and Samsonov's worrying performance. Then, a chat about Brad Treliving's top priorities ahead of the deadline and Tavares' 5-on-5 struggles. They are joined by former GM Gord Stellick (30:18), who weighs in on what an ideal deadline looks like for the Leafs, where they can get a boost internally and which players can be relied on to turn their underwhelming seasons around in the playoffs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

after stepping aside for the nba trade deadline yesterday it's the real kipper and born show back on friday which also means one thing it's off off the rails. That's good. Two general managers on Friday will join us. Gord Stelic in about half an hour. And then Doug McClain will pick up at the top of the hour. I'd say that's the most real Kipper and Bourne. Friend of the show Friday. Yeah, these are our pals. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy mckee derrick brandeo and james

wilson or james give me willie wilson wilson is that a castaway reference excellent movie excellent movie excellent movie underrated i feel like very good you know this is gonna sound messed up i know all the pop culture things about it i don't think i've ever really seen it oh it's excellent it's especially the part where he's screaming wilson whoa spoilers the 20 year and it just pulled on your oh yeah common sense string to slap Tom Hanks in the side of the head and go, it's a volleyball. With blood on it. Sounds like he was in deep.

It's a very good movie. Sammy. Yes. Okay. I forgot on Wednesday to tell all our watchers and listeners that we were not on Thursday for this NBA trade deadline. And I want you to tell everybody whether or not it was worth it or not. What do you mean?

Oh, for the Raptors? Yeah. I got to tell you. What happened? I don't know who plays the Raptors. Like, I really don't. I went into yesterday kind of knowing, but they've been trading guys that I love with Pascal going out the door,

Oki going out the door. Barnes and Quickly and Barrett and Grady Dick. It's a whole new thing. It's really a whole new thing. They traded another first-round pick to get, like, a young, toolsy guy from Utah that I don't know how to pronounce his name. They got another Canadian, Kelly Olenek. They traded away Dennis Schroeder for nothing,

which I thought was weird because you need some leadership. And then they waived in ways to save the money. Yeah, saving some money. But you need some leadership on a team. But I thought it was kind of an underwhelming trade deadline. If that trade deadline's like that in the NHL, we're not going to have much to talk about. Well, we're glad we're back in whatever platform you choose. Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus,

from 4 to 6 Eastern, Spotify, YouTube channel now. We're glad you're with us for the next two hours. And also, Texas at 590-590. Do Texas today. We've actually blocked off a little bit more time than usual to answer your text. Because we get to them at like 540 sex every time. Yeah, then we're like, ah, text, text, text. I love a day off as much as anyone out there.

But here's the real issue. You're going to have to remind me what the heck happened Wednesday night because it feels like 100 years ago that we watched the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Dallas Stars. Usually I give it a window of 12 to 14 hours where I can absorb all of the details of the game,

but I'm way past that well here you're not going to believe this but their best players scored and no one else and their goalie wasn't very good okay actually so so wash rinse and repeat yeah i actually do think that the mccabe it was a bit of a the mccabe game it was the mccabe game and i think it was like a moment with this fan base where really not like people didn't like mccabe i think you know people are still kind of getting to know him he hasn't been here that long under a year and i think people with the addition of ben water that pairing people really fell in love like they've been loving benoit but those two together with him running around, trying to fight Marchman,

getting cut, spitting mad, blood running down his face. I feel like it was a bit of a turning point for McCabe. I tweeted, I wonder if Jake McCabe is moving up the fan power ranking list, you know,

and commented on the game. That tweet has 572 likes and 62 people responded about how Jake McCabe is like one of the most beloved guys right now. You know, it's the passion. No. That unites us all. No, no. people responded about how jake mccabe is like one of the most beloved guys right now for people you know it's the passion no that unites us all no no it's leaf fans are starving it's a rich cracker starving man for a guy with a little blood on his face yeah that's what it is yes and he's that guy he was genuinely mad and he genuinely wanted to fight that guy who wouldn't fight him, so he chased him around.

He ran him over. But can he genuinely do it a little more often? I think he does it a lot, Kipper. I think if other people did it, it wouldn't feel like it had to be him every night. Not like that. Yeah. Come on. But who can do it like that every night?

I'm not saying that he needs to be bleeding, but I don't see enough of that out of him to draw that type of emotion. And that's the difference between him being okay to good to being great for the Leafs. I'm not going back 25 years. No, but it feels like a pretty weird quibble to be like, how good was he? Why isn't every night?

Every time someone fights, Matthew Nyes fights. Why isn't it every night? Don't need fighting. Just need a challenge. He challenged marchment. It was a confrontation. It was eye to eye, nose to nose. No, they didn't fight, but they didn't have to fight, Sammy or JB.

They didn't. But you want to turn yourself into a beloved guy, like you're talking about Wednesday night? Yeah. How many games, how many true games do you remember Wendell Clark going where he didn't bring that type of emotion to a game? And I know it was 20 years ago. I get all of that.

But if McCabe wants to be beloved, like you're talking about as of Wednesday night, buddy, hey, just a little more often. I think we remember sort of, you remember the moments that happened with Wendell. You don't remember the games that didn't happen. And I think that, yeah, to your point, we could use these games where it happens for McCabe. So you look back and say god there was five or six times this year where he

went off the rails and you know you're talking about his wires cross a little bit he is there's not many guys loved him he's like a top 10 in the league for wires cross starts to get but you know what goes with that is the moments in playoffs last year where all three times he ran a guy over, I think he got scored on within 40 seconds because he's just fritzing. Yeah. You know, so can you, you know, keep playing? Sometimes he wants to stay a little bit in his quiet zone, and that's when it gets kind of quiet for the whole team. You need, it'd be nice if they had two guys like that or three guys like that that can kind of carry a little bit of that emotion

for 17 other guys who just want to go through their, the thing that they do on the ice. That's why this Benoit pairing with them, I think, what was it our boy on Twitter was calling them, the roofers from North Bay? Yeah, they look like a couple of roofers. Yeah, the Oak Leafs. Oak Leafs, yeah.

You know, they do. If they're a pair, there's something to like there. There's also really good artists. Go ahead. No, it was just something about them that I do think they play too much still. Benoit played 23 minutes? I don't think that's going to be the norm. I think that if you could slot them in as your third pairing,

14 to 15 minute kind of group, where you could add two guys to this decor which is a lot but if you take out geo and lilligren and add in two capable nhl defensemen sliding them down they'd be even better because they'd just be they'd be playing more on edge looking for okay now now it's like you know 20 other teams could say the same thing right now if you just add two more top four and slide them back, no kidding. But we've been having this conversation with the Leafs trying to add guys for five years. And it's like, maybe they should do it.

And these two guys look like they could be a capable pairing, but just maybe not playing 23 a night for Benoit. Benoit just slid right in there as a top 4D on the Toronto Maple Leafs right now. It's funny, there's a good article on,d on the toronto maple leafs right now it's funny there's a good article on i think it's in the athletic on benoit and his like shot his like goals against stuff is like the best in the nhl he's top 10 and goals you know suppressing goals suppressing shots suppressing everything however he's also bottom 10 and everything offensive like in terms of

creating whatever he's the lowest event guy in the league, essentially. Like nothing happens either way when he's on the ice, which is the Leafs don't have a ton of guys like that, which is why he has value to them. Okay, let's go to our first Kippers Clipper on this Off the Rails Friday on Sheldon Keefe commenting on Jake McCabe. Jake is an absolute competitor. So for him in that moment to not lose his cool and not

lose his cool the remainder of the game, which I thought there was some confrontation between he and Marshment in the third period. Jake was hard on him, but our team was hard on Marshment the rest of the way. I think Jake asked him for a fight, and the fight didn't happen, obviously, but it's like Jake didn't keep his, or kept his cool and didn't hurt the team. I mean, I think as we're learning, or have learned, Jake's an absolute competitor and warrior,

and loved how he handled that. Is the most predictable thing in playoffs McCabe playing too many minutes? Oh, yeah. Is it not? That's what I mean. Add a guy to bump him down. Everyone, like the organization, loves him.

Keith in that clip, you can hear him. He's an absolute competitor. They want him on the ice. But you can see his 22-minute game in the playoffs against Florida being too much. All right, so let's open it up. Off of Wednesday night, I wrote an article for the Toronto Star on Thursday, which kind of played into the consistency of the dependency on your big core four.

They certainly delivered Wednesday night uh but moving forward where your concerns going into ottawa saturday night well if you don't mind me taking a detour my concerns are in net first and foremost maybe we can get there after do you want to start on the i'm okay i'm all right if you think that's a top priority uh go there if you want i had someone text me during that game on wednesday night and just say that this is like the end of the road for samson off like it was that perilous that you know his tenuous i should say his roster spot here and you know that fourth one that goes through his glove you know one goes through his arm hole at one point you say what you want it's do you feel better about him now?

No. Puck just kept going in the net. No. That's so good. Yeah. Can you play it again, Derek? Puck just kept going in the net. You don't need any more analysis.

It just keeps going in. That was a lot of bad Sammy Wednesday. And he was sliding around again. I think we had to give him credit leading up. This is way outside my comfort zone of giving a goalie a lot of credit here. But he was really good leading up to the Stars game. He had been legitimately good for them when they needed a guy. He came up from who knows where he was, and he's been pretty good.

But the game against the Stars was. I don't know what that means. Like, he was a capable NHL goalie for four games. Three. Sammy, just. Maybe four. Okay, so. I'm giving him credit for those before we bury him for a bad game.

Like. No, no. He was gone. He was on the moon. This is not about giving him credit for a good two or three weeks. It's where are they going here, Sammy? You know, after he had five games of below an 850 save percentage, he had three where he was above 900.

In the last three games, he's been 883, 897, 871. So he's back to that, you know. So what is the plan going into playoffs? How do you feel if he's one of the two? Nervous. And one of the one maybe. Nervous. Yeah.

I'd start first of all by not giving him tomorrow night's game. Why? I think based on what i saw wednesday i'd like him to reset again and make sure that whatever you've gained in the last month isn't lost with a a bad start saturday night yeah i'd go to martin jones saturday night and let him. And you want Jones to keep playing too. Keep him in the mix and allow Sammy to kind of reset again off of a fortunate win, if we can say that. Yeah.

For him without feeling like you're going to lose it all on a bad performance Saturday night. Starts are going to get hard to come by. Like if you give Martin Jones Saturday night, how far are you from Wohl coming back? Maybe a week at that point? You know, like you're getting to the point where some starts are going to go to him.

Like Samsonov's window to take the crease while Wohl was hurt is just about closed. And so you're looking at a Wohl-Jones pairing, unless something changes here in the next month leading up to the deadline. I don't necessarily think you want to... So if there's the three of them, who are you waiving? I guess you're waiving...

Could he carry three? I guess he'd carry three. Because you can't... I don't think you can bet on Wall's health. That's a good point, yeah. I just really don't think you can bet on Wall's health. That's a good point, yeah. Like, I just really don't think he can be like, oh, he's back now from the shot off the sideboards where he popped his ankle and was gone for three months.

I think if you wave Samson off, no one's claiming him. And if you wave Jones, someone is. He's cheap and he's... Oh, Sammy's the guy who's getting waved if you need to. I think it's 30 days, I think, and you have to re-waive him. Okay. So there's no doubt that. If someone goes down, he's the guy.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And if you want to take the 3-2 off the books, opens up more. Opens up 1.15 extra there. To do a lot more come trade deadline. Yeah. opens up 1.15 extra there to do a lot more come trade deadline yeah so listen i i'm with you jb that that yeah there's probably some concerns and i'm also with you saying like do you really want to

roll the dice on on wall because you don't know you have no idea he can come back and be a rock star as he was in his last two or three starts before getting hurt or He can come back and be a rock star as he was in his last two or three starts before getting hurt, or he can come back and be average, or he can have ongoing issues with his high ankle sprain. Like, we don't know. No idea. But I will say this to both of you. It's not Brad Tree Living's top priority right now.

No. Would you agree with that? I agree because you, between one of the three guys, you feel like someone should be able to play well, right? Like when they're all healthy, it just feels like, I don't know who's out there.

That's better that you're going to get. So I could see why you would say it's not priority. What would you say is, uh, well, when I say, when I say not a top priority goaltending isn't his top priority it is that blue line and and a center of some kind to me would be a top

priority too did you guys feel like i thought geo had a tough yeah wednesday it's just it's not going in the right direction here and you you love the guy for him giving everything he's got, but it's just, there's not much left to give here. No. Gio, you have to have that blue line at least strong enough where he goes into the first round as your seventh defenseman or eighth. He does not start in the playoffs. Really?

Yeah, I mean, you love the idea of having him in the press box as a guy who would be rested at that point could come in and give you good pk minutes and reliable play but so when we when we won uh the stanley cup i think it was jeff bukaboon who had some issues. Doug Lister came in. I don't know when he came in. Probably middle of the second round maybe. Okay. Everybody talks about Mark Messier's guarantee

and Mike Richter playing this amazing game. Six, the night Messier guaranteed the win. Doug Lister was like this black ace with the rest of us. And he went in there. I remember him. And he, like, did a phenomenal job of just coming in and holding the fort. And I don't know if it ever got as much credit as it deserved. I'm going to say no because I've never heard that until today.

So, no. Same. And can Geio do that? Can he be a guy that certainly can go in there and hold himself well? Yeah. You're not crossing your fingers on Lagasin living up to the moment. He's been through the moment. But it needs to come in as that type of supporting role.

That's possible. Gio starting and playing 15, 16 minutes every other night, I don't like that look. Well, then you better get someone who can PK. You know, you see some of the names people are talking about for D-man. It can't be Chikrin then. Well, I mean, obviously they'd love to have Chikrin, but you're looking for someone who can also help. They some guys their own end of the rink here okay uh you mentioned

a centerman so let's go to sheldon keith on clip numbers three on the leafs bottom six yeah like those guys contributed a lot tonight uh you know and that's a deep team on the other side you know there's no easy matchups no easy shifts against those guys. And I thought guys responded well. And I put them in what I thought were some challenging spots. They managed it very well. I thought Revo again today was excellent. Holmberg was really, really good.

And that was good. You know, it allowed us to trust them in some tough spots and get a little bit of a breather to the rest of the guys. So, yeah, tremendous to see. So part of my article in the Toronto Star on Thursday, and you can grab that if you can on my ex or former Twitter account, at Real Kipper, was if Sheldon coaches like he did against the islanders they're the leafs are in big trouble if he can find a way to get guys feeling better that aren't

amongst four of the top 10 player paid players in the game uh then he's got a better chance here, basically. Yeah. And I thought the fourth line was good. And Max Domi found a way to play, I think, more than 14 minutes, 15 minutes. So he got a lot more off his bench Wednesday night than he did Monday night against the Islanders.

Yeah, I thought, and I said this in our group chat i thought holmberg was really good early in the game he almost got he had a little breakaway right he drew a penalty like he had a little bit of jump in his step um it makes a big difference this team looks like a different team when you feel like you can use those guys i agree you know like i've got to the point a little bit with sheldon and this team where I'm like, can they change? Can he change the way he uses his guys? And we don't see it often, right? But it is nice.

Nice to see it can be different and it worked for him on Wednesday. I mean, how often are you going to get that from those guys? Like, you know, Reeves has been really good since he's come. I mean, really good is strong. But he's been much better than the unplayable he was at the start of the year. And like you said, they're getting a lot from Holmberg.

But I guess it just depends what your aspirations are for the team. You're going to get Kampf back. You're going to get Jarnkrok back. But you can't lean on these guys in the playoffs. Right. Right? Like, I mean, they have to add a forward if they're really serious about this thing. An ongoing theme.

Agreed, yes. they have to add a forward if they're really serious about this thing. An ongoing theme. Agreed, yes. An ongoing theme for the Toronto Maple Leafs has been even strength, five on five, a lack of consistency in scoring, including out of their top guys like Tavares. The power play goes three for three under two minutes, which is absolutely phenomenal. But there is still a little concern on even strength goals, five-on-fives. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe in clip four on Tavares and his lack of five-on-five scoring.

I'm just going to stay with it. I thought John was excellent at five-on-fives. I mean, that play he makes to create the nylander goal uh uh there in the in the third period is like that's big time stuff uh so i i mean let's not get too picky here like the goals are the goals however they go in whoever scores them we see enough goals to win hockey games and we got that here tonight let's not get too picky here he so tavarez has uh his last three games he has six points one and two one and one and a goal um in the three games ago so he's putting it in again i know five on five not so much still but i i don't know how you guys

feel he's played i don't know how you feel but i think he works his ass off yeah um i think it i think five on five is a challenge for him right now. I don't think it's just a bad slump here. I think there are times when there's not a lot of room for him out there. But he still finds a way to get to the net, and he's a great redirect guy. He's had a lot of shots. You know, he is getting pucks. Didn't you say shan he said

something to your yeah maybe so maybe so and we'll get too into it because i know where'd you hear him well i don't know how much i should talk about this but we're here now so i'm gonna talk about it yeah i played in a sports net cup yesterday which is like a big you know sports net deal and we went down to the scotia bank arena and we played on scotia bank arena ice and which you said was awful well ice is just dreadful i don't know how they ever play an nhl game on that yeah like need the scrapers out there uh i was gonna say like the the pad five at canlon is better than the scotia bank arena which is insane to say anyways he was doing like a q a sean mckenzie was there asking him questions then he took questions from the crowd. He was talking about Tavares, and

he said that he thought Tavares was having his best year as a Leaf. Just the way that he's working and the way that he's adapted his game with his skating, how it's maybe gone downhill a little bit, but he's adjusted his game, and he went into this big, long thing about it. That's a pretty newsworthy

thing from him. I mean, just in general, we hear so little from him and it was very it was awesome to hear him talk about hockey and it's just like you never hear his opinion of the team you never really hear from him and that so to hear him say that it was i also heard that yeah he spoke at like an ivy uh con or sort of a conference as well and similar things where it's like and everyone's like really nice to get you know some some takes out there yeah it's funny because we hear from presidents in the league right like jim rutherford he'll come on our show if we call him tomorrow yeah you know and and guys around

the league if you you don't get a lot of public shanty comments on the team so that's interesting i think there'd be a lot of leaf fans going hold on didn't he score 47 in his first full year as a Leafs? So, I mean, I don't know. Is it a way of probably reinforcing his confidence in John Tavares? I think that probably speaks louder than whether or not you really believe he's having his best year as a Leaf. But I do notice that since the offense had dried up the last little while there he has put more attention to detail in his game including not turning the puck over as much i

think he's he went through a bad stretch where i i saw him turn over the puck a lot yeah and i think he's cleaned up a lot of that yeah he's a guy that when he's not scoring you feel pretty comfortable in his play right now which is good but you know i it's always the you wait against the contract if he's just a hockey player and we didn't know the numbers you'd say well obviously he's an important piece of what they're doing so now i think if if moving forward here and again the emphasis for me is to find a way to get Bertuzzi going here. He's the one, man. I think it has to include power play time for Bertuzzi.

And I think moving forward, if Sheldon can give him a couple of starts on the power play, and for me, that means that John sits. And that's fine that means that John sits. And that's fine.

John's getting his money. He can help the team out and get the seg on. At this point, for John Tavares to go with just one more year on his deal, it really doesn't matter whether or not John scores 61 points this year, 70, 75. And the beauty of it is that even if you found a way to take him off on selected power plays and give it to Bertuzzi or give it to Domi, you know come playoff time, John's out there. And John won't miss a beat, and he'll still redirect

or he'll find that loose area around the blue paint and he will find a way to be dangerous. And we're good at teasing out context now. Like if Tavares numbers go down because Bertuzzi is playing PP1 minutes, well no. Like it's eyes not cutting his power play points.

Because all of a sudden you think John sucks or you've lost faith in him. It's I have to get other people going. So I wrote about, you know, remember we talked about power play, the percentage of power play time the guys play on the team. So I wrote about that. That's up on sportsnet.ca.

And so the Leafs guys and their big four forwards, Matthews plays 76% of their power play time on ice. Nylander, 72. Marner, 72. Tavares, 69. What do you think Bertuzzi is? He's the next highest. So, and Tavares is 69% of the power play time.

40, 30. 27. 27. My guess is going to be 35. 27. 27% of their power play time, tuesdays on the acs yeah but never out there i mean and it's always tail end that time is when they've cleared the zone they're going back when they're still in their zone yeah right yeah like

time this is a different type of minute so i thought yeah yeah that conversation of putting them out there would have been really easy if they didn't score four power plays goals in their last what seven chances three for three last game like it just like it was leaning that way we were having the conversations about the two units sheldon even alluded to it and then the last goal the last game before the break tavaris scored like their the game winning goal on the power play and now they've gotten hot with it it's a harder one now than it was before now I think it's safer to

throw it over to Bertuzzi if there's anything I know about Sheldon he's not going to change a thing that's winning you games because he's trying to develop something else but this is the thing he needs to do some things different I know we don't want to talk about my article ad nauseum here, but a neat thing that I just want to throw out

real quick is looking at the top five power plays. That's Tampa, Carolina, the Rangers, the Edmonton Oilers, and the Leafs. All the top guys have similar minutes to what I just told you guys in terms of percentage that they play, except Carolina. Carolina's numbers are wild.

The guy who plays the most for them is ahu who plays 62 of the time that's the most on their team they have like a true two unit thing where the fifth highest guy plays 50 of the minutes just a totally different philosophy in a way to run your your team they're the only team that's really wildly different all right and what happened today they had an outdoor game. Everybody's at TTC. That was yesterday. That was yesterday? Yeah, that was yesterday.

After All-Star weekend, I feel like we've had enough good Leafs in the community stuff. It's great. I love it. I cut the one clip from it, but I'll just paraphrase it. We don't have to play it. Keith's like, ah, it's really nice to be out here. Sure would have liked the day off, but I'm happy we're here.

And we watched a video of the guys on the subway. It's very cool. Guys are wearing the, you know, visor helmets. Great. It's great for the city. They should do it. I'm skating there with the alumni on Saturday morning. No, you're not.

No, Saturday afternoon. Really? Yeah. Yeah, we got a big alumni game. Oh, wow. At the outdoor rink. Oh, my God. That's hilarious.

Allie's going to that. I'll tell her to cheer for you. No, you're going, too, to cheer me on. No, I'm not. What, do you got better things to do than support me? Literally. Oh, my God. That's hilarious. Allie's going to that. I'll tell her to cheer for you. No, you're going, too, to cheer me on. No, I'm not. What, do you got better things to do than support me? Yeah, I do. Shame on you, Sammy. Yeah, I'm sorry, buddy.

You know, you like to get a day off. Come to think of it, I like my Saturday off. Fair enough. All right, we're going to take a quick break. Let's do it. Let's do that. And when we come back, it'll be former general manager gordon stelic of the toronto maple leafs who will give us all the answers moving forward you're watching and listening with some stelic tricity on the real

kipper and born show fresh views on everything in the national football league it's the fan check down with matt marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back into the Real Kipper and Born Show. Let's welcome in our first guest on Off the Rails Friday.

You're going to drive it into the ditch, Gord, as much as Doug does at the top of the hour, or we're going to kind of build up towards Doug McClain? Boy, I don't think anyone can drive it into the ditch. How about it's the 18-wheeler we're trying to keep on the road that Brian Burke alluded to years ago? That's going to be my visit, okay? Well, thanks for joining us.

Of course we, you do a terrific job on a five 90, the fan as an analyst, uh, uh, and your show in the mornings on, on serious radio is terrific as well. And of course,

author of revival, the journey of the Toronto Maple Leafs, 77, 78 series. Uh, you know, Doug's going to plug his book, so you might as well take a shot at it.

Well, I didn't take a shot at it, but I said to you last week with what went on All-Star weekend, I think a really neat tie-in is that you've got four homegrown players that were All-Stars last weekend and really performed well both on and off the ice. And you go back, this is the 1970s team, Daryl Sittler, Lanny McDonald, Tiger Williams, Borya Saming, about four homegrown players

that kind of like this team now had a great nucleus, had one great playoff series win over Justin Bourne's dad's New York Islanders, and then it just didn't quite get to the next level. So anyway, it's kind of a neat story, 40 whatever number of years ago, about a little bit what the contemporary toronto maple leaf team is facing right now so given all the challenge this current team you know they are facing what do you think the realistic deadline looks like for them like are they going to be able to bring back a centerman and two defensemen

and a goalie like well what kind of haul are we looking at here for maple leafs fan waiting to see some change i think you're going to be looking when sportsnet does the headlines you're going to be looking we'll be back after a break and we'll finally get to the toronto maple leafs acquisition of whomever door number one was nick felina year. Door number two was Giordano and Colin Blackwell year two. Last year, door number three and Gamonte's cookie jar and everything. And basically, you've gone to that well three times. You've re-upped with two of your four core players. It's not a model that's brought you success in the playoffs,

a disproportionate amount of your salary cap going to top four forwards but you're stuck you're stuck so you can't you can't keep giving away futures currency you got to let these guys lead you and then Brad for living has to be going looking at the marked down section where there could be gems like Luke Shen last year for a third round pick that's not going to grab headlines but you get one or two of those type things that could end up being a positive for the playoffs so we saw a little bit of the good and bad this week between the islanders and the dallas game but what did you see that you think now that they have enough to lead into a a playoff push kippyippy, I don't know. You know, I debate, are they,

their best time may have been two years ago. The reality is, have the Florida Panthers come and gone and left them in their dust? I mean, we talked, I keep alluding to whatever it was, six or seven years ago, Joel Quenville coaching the Chicago Blackhawks and saying, wow, I really see this team, a lot of similarities to when Taves and Kane

came to Chicago. And here we are, one play, you know, wow, I really see this team, a lot of similarities to when Tames and Kane came to Chicago. And here we are. One play, you know, an exciting team, an entertaining team, a lot of personality, a lot of swagger. Not a complete team, not a depth team, not a playoff successful team. I don't know. Maybe that's what they are. You're waving the white flag.

Gord, you're waving the white flag here. You can't convince me that the Leafs are going to purposely mail it in this trade deadline with the guy. They're in their prime. You've got some of the highest paid players on the planet on your team in their prime. There's not a chance that they're going to mail it in this trade deadline. Well, I don't know what the term mail it is. All I'm saying is, Kippy, three years of special deliveries instead of mailing it in and you got bo diddly okay you got squat

and at some point at some point all i'm saying is it's like let's find out let's fight like like stop this excitement oh my good ryan o'reilly's coming to town oh my goodness nick felino's coming to now no it's the guys that won the game against the Dallas Stars. It was their core players that they have to lead them. And, you know, it's not their fault. They don't have that subsequent death. And I'm saying that's Bradshaw living. And your pro scouts be more creative, be more vigilant, and make better deals to get us some supporting cast players.

That's not waving the white flag. If you're looking for internal improvement, there's not too many places to find it from. tyler bertuzzi certainly has more to give how much would you play with the lines and power play time to try to give him some spark this poor guy just can't shoot one in the net right now and he has a history of being able to yeah you know and also let's throw like max doming last two years with two different teams has had, you know, decent playoff runs. So you're hoping, you know, I'm looking at that, Justin, that in some ways they're trade deadline type players. Because usually those acquisitions are veteran players on expiring contracts.

Now, these guys happen to be signed in the summer, but just one year contract. So they're similar to the average free agent pickup. But exactly, exactly. Those are two guys that you got to hope you get more from in the playoffs. Now, part of the problem is when you're not coasting along in first place or in a playoff spot like they were last year, you know, you still got to go out there and grind and win games and not fall back. It's you might be a little reluctant to do the kind of things you're talking about. But I agree. It's up to Tyler Bertuzzi to get to a next level.

But also, you're right, the team's got to try to get him in a place that can bring it out of him, right? It's kind of a two-way street in that regard. And to your point, like, yeah, the upside could be tremendous in the playoffs. We haven't seen it really in the regular season. We're talking to former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Gord Stelik. So where did you have Simone Benoit and Jake McCabe as a reliable pairing

on your bingo card? Well, Benoit was not on my bingo card, okay? And I give him full marks for that. I mean, you know, it's kind of like when Babcock, I mean, it wasn't a very good team when Babcock fell in love with Matt Hunwick. You know, you had that guy that you really hadn't heard of. And, you know, it's one thing on not a very good team, but I got to say, you know, he's accorded himself much better than I would have thought. It doesn't give you a wow name when you look at the Vegas Golden Knight D or the Florida Panther D or the Boston Bruin D you know as far as the depth

goes Jake McCabe just you know as was a positive addition again to again in the playoffs you hope can bring it to a higher level because really last year the stories were Morgan Riley and Luke Shen so it's worrisome Kipper like it's it's worrisome when you're talking about name depth names like that when you do get in the playoffs you can go with the core 4d more often you can do that you saw chicago blackhawks did it and winning three stanley cups so your fifth and 60 can get less ice time but again you know you're trying to hide a lack of depth and that's always worrisome gordon is there a chance that tj brody is just not gonna find it in the meaningful way compared to previous seasons like he's been a guide for this team they're just like okay brody spot we don't have to think about he's just a reliable steady d right now no he's not having

a great year gordon where do you think he is and where he's headed yeah you know it's a funny one because i thought that was a really nice free agent pickup a few years ago. And there's been like an element of consistency to his play, which, again, beyond Morgan Riley, you've always been looking for that on the Toronto D. And, you know, I mean, Justin Hall is the ultimate. And T.J. Brody had a better reputation and better career when he came to Toronto than Justin Hall did. But, boy, the extremes in Justin Hall's play you know was was one thing ups and downs over the year and again to your point to your point Justin you're really hoping you know he can find that level for the playoffs like something better in the playoffs so you know the funny animal is we're talking about you know weakness the weakness in depth and D and we still

look last year all that scoring and they didn't score more than two goals in their final seven consecutive playoff games so the thing is what is it that what's the it factor that wins games what's the difference maker can tartar batusi be a difference maker in one game can max tommy be a difference maker in one playoff game can goaltending be a difference maker in a ton of playoff games all these kinds of things you know it seems to be have always alluded them in the playoffs whether it's from their great players or the secondary cast the supporting cast court earlier in the show we were talking about samsonov and and saying wednesday there's probably a few more signs of the bad sammy that we've seen all season long than

than what we've seen in the last couple of weeks. But where's your level of concern for goaltending moving forward? Or where would it be as a priority between now and the trade deadline for you? Boy, the all-star Sammy up to three weeks ago was our Sammy, Sammy McKee, wasn't it? Like he was the story of Toronto. But sorry, sorry, McKee. Ilya has kind of i really give him a lot of credit i give samson off like about and what they did i thought was sort of a

modern day smart way not just get the hell out of here go to the minors more about okay let's get a little bit of reset let's work on the positives and you know other things and i got to give the guy full marks how he's played of late to To answer your question, I'm probably sitting there like the Carolina Hurricanes right now. The Hurricanes a lot, it's because of injuries, but in the Leaf case, so just one of them, can one of them play as well as the Vegas Golden Knight goaltenders did last year in the playoff? Joe Wall, even Martin Jones, Ilya Samsonov. Maybe they trade for a fourth like they did with David Riddick a couple of years ago as a backup for depth and just in case.

So I'm not – I felt better with Freddie every year in the playoffs, but yet Freddie was a disappointment in the playoffs. So you never know how things play out. So I got to say, yes, it's worrisome heading in, but if one of them can get hot and they've all shown that ability, that's all you're going to need. Gordon, do you think fans are at the point where, I hate to say this, but taking for granted this Maple Leafs team? I'm just wondering because at some point it could be over, right?

Where this run is, okay, we're not a successful playoff team. There's been all these years of pushing the chips in and now it's going to go the other direction. It just feels like the expectations have been so high. The success hasn't been there, but God, they just win. You know, like we've been all over them, I would say, for the last month or two. And, you know, they keep winning at a playoff pace.

Is there sort of the risk of the fans not appreciating what they got here? You know, it's an interesting, and I'm not plugging the book again, but you go back to that team. Now that team, a new guy came in and just basically blew it all up and punched him like with that team. So that's why you kind of look at that era, you know, with such sentiment about it. But, you know, it's like these are amazing players.

Austin Matthews is on the verge of becoming the greatest Leaf ever. Mitch Varner is a special player. Willie, I got, you know, I mean, John Tavares is a bit of a different case there. When his contract's up, that'll be, you know, a little bit of a different way to handle it. But those three and Morgan Riley, who's not a Norris Trophy defenseman, but again, he's a homegrown guy. It's a likable group. It's a really likable group. I mean, All-Star Weekend showed there's something special about this group. And I know people that, you know, Justin, that go to regular season games and are thoroughly entertained, as am I, by and large.

I mean, that's what it's kind of about. You know, go out and the game against Dallas, when they had to win and the big guns had to come through, they came through. I still find that exciting to watch. I think fans still find it exciting to watch. But again, year after year. Now, last year, they did win a playoff series. So that was a little baby step. It's unfortunate the way they lose. It's not the fact they lose. 1993, it went down to game seven. Doug Gilmore battling it out to the last second against Wayne Gretzky's Los

Angeles Kings. I mean, going down with a fight, which it didn't really happen again against the Florida Panthers. But I'm with you, Justin, that I don't discount at all what this team's like in the regular season. This is a real special team. There's some real, maybe not special team. There's some really special, great players on this team

that 20 years from now will be reminiscing about those days. And Kip, I don't, kip i don't sorry i don't mean to like blame the fans for not appreciating them because the fans are putting up with you know a lot of failure and still supporting this team and i get all that i'm just trying to make the point here that these are pretty darn good teams that are pretty fun and it's been a good run here go ahead kip just uh one more for me uh gordo and that's the presence of a fourth line against Dallas. Reeves, JB mentioned he liked Holmberg's game.

Is there still a chance over the next 30 games that they really develop a solid fourth line here? Yeah, you know, I think so. I really do think so. And, you know, to start with Reeves, just a tough start to the season that every time you went out that line was a minus and it wasn't necessarily always his fault but you just don't get going and after the injury a bit of a reset there and uh yeah the way Holmberg played I I think and you and probably to your point earlier Justin mentioned about trying to put Tyler Bertuzzi Bertuzzi in good situations also about getting that fourth line cemented, some stability.

I mean, there's some injuries right now as far as the third and fourth line go with Yarncroke and Kampf. But, yeah, I mean, that's the thing that comes together. You can't go tell people to score goals. You want them to, but last year when they didn't score more than two goals in their last seven consecutive games in the playoffs, they know that. But you can't just say, hey, David Kampf, you've got more than two goals in their last seven consecutive games in the playoffs. They know that, but you can't just say, hey, David Kampf, you've got to score two goals today.

But you can have certain expectations, a commitment like the Boston Bruins have been so great for the last number of years to a style of play, a team style of play that hopefully can be a more conducive winning style in the playoffs. That's very much a reality. Got anything else for him? I think we're all good, pal.

We're good. Once again, the book's revival. Is it true after the All-Star weekend that we had to revive you? You were on a torrid pace. I had a

torrid pace for it. One of the real fun things was I did fan forums. One hour one with Austin Matthews and William Nylander followed by Morgan Riley. I went to your spot right after there. So then Morgan Riley and Mitch Marder.

Then I visited you guys. So that was my most fun afternoon. But anyway, did you guys like the weekend? It was wonderful. I loved it. it was really good. Great to connect with some fans of the show. Great to connect with just a bunch of Leafs fans. And to be honest, you know, I thought the city showed really well.

Success for the NHL. I just want to say, I think because it was in Toronto and it was almost as if everybody had to be on their best behavior because the crap that they try to pull in other all-star games would never fly here or anywhere in Canada for that matter. And that's what I liked about those players were really invested on and off the ice. I mean, the organization

did a great job. Anyway, it's a fun weekend. Now we move back to the real stuff. Gordo, great stuff as always. Thanks for joining us. See you guys. Thanks, Gordo. Gordo Stelic, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, and does a great job on Sportsnet 590, The Fan. Now, can I kind of go back

at you a little bit here? Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay. This appreciation talk? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's not flying with me, bud. Are you coaching the team no i'm just we're leaf fans are so beyond that you're giving credit for another decent it won't be as good as the last few regular season like they should be able to in my opinion from here on in like with their eyes

closed end up with a 100 points yeah okay that's the thing that we need to not take for granted how many Leafs teams over the past 50 years with their eyes closed get 100 points I don't care I know you just don't care we could be doing uh squids talk or like talking about like a team with a bunch of second liners and mid guys and have no stars and it's like it's fun to watch this group you can't you can't go in and lose in the first round or even the second round quietly again and look back with great fondness about these players you want to say 20 years from now, they were really special. And I'm going to turn around and say to you, these really special players,

nobody got them over the hump, right? Either you want to blame the players or you blame the decision makers above. But someone's got to take some heat if we're talking about 20 years from now that you were gifted. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares came in as a legitimate guy and you couldn't get past the second round. How do you look back with fondness? It'll be dubious that I'll eat that one. It'll be dubious that it'll eat that one so i think they would quibble with the idea that they were

gifted uh guys that you know outside of matthews they made selections for players they signed tavara's away from other people sucked to get those picks on purpose though very deliberately made a decision to do that we could have picked those guys we could have picked them sure but i think you know you it's, you know, how do Vancouver Canucks fans look back at the Sedin era? How do Ottawa Senators fans look back at the Alfredson era? I'm saying this is the risk. The risk is you look back at this era and go,

God, it was fun watching those guys. We never got there. How do we know we're in the good old days before they're gone? That's really nice. That's very poetic. Yeah. I'm saying you're right. That's really nice. That's very poetic. I'm saying, you're right. It's a matter of competitiveness. What is the expectation?

Will you look back at this and see it as a failure or a success? All I know is every night when you and I watch the games because we have to, it's pretty fun. That's why the Leafs have to get aggressive again and creative aggressiveness. Yes. Meaning, RFAs. Go out and pull aggressiveness. Yes. Meaning RFAs. Go out and pull names.

Multiple guys. Don't focus just on UFAs here. Move money out. Get me GMs on the phone. We need players. All right, we're going to get into how aggressive the Canadian teams have to be in the next hour with Doug McClain. Our thanks to Gord Stelic.

Always does a terrific job on the show. Plenty more still on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Like I said, we're going to welcome in Doug McClain. We're going to pick up this conversation because I'm hearing it's heating up. Oh, boy. Ooh. Oh.

Don't go away. More Real Kipper and Bourne after the break.