Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: End of the Hiller Honeymoon Phase

Episode Date: October 19, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' weekend loss to the New York Islanders ahead of their matchup against the Sharks. They discuss the team's play so far after nine games, early impressions of Jim Hiller behind the bench, Auston Matthews emphasizing urgency, Sergei Bobrovsky's rough start, the absence of John Tavares, and what newly calle up Vinni Lettieri brings to the lineup. Then, they tee up the Leafs' contest against the Sharks which will feature the number one and two picks in Gavin McKenna and Ivar Stenburg, discuss the Bruins benching Nikita Zadorov, and weigh in on why the Leafs should not rush to trade young assets and picks.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Start of the week here on the real Kipperman Boran show. No better way to do that on our Leaf Hour edition than game day. Toronto Maple Leafs, San Jose Sharks. Woo! Get ready to rumble. The Kipriot, Justin Boran, Sammy McKee. Derek Brandeo, Jake the Snake Shultz with you for the next two hours. We are live on Sportsnet 360.

Sportsnet 590 The Fan and streaming always on SportsNap Plus. Also available Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube, where we always appreciate a thing. Thumbs up. Got David Amber coming in studio, second hour. Yeah. We've got Sean Reynolds as well. But in the meantime, yeah, but in the meantime, it's just the three of us. One hour straight up.

To talk Maple Leaf Action over the weekend. I would call it action. What seemed hopefully for Lee fans, a one-off on game against Buffalo. They weren't able to turn it around Saturday night against the island. and here we are on a Monday here. Nine games. It will be the 10th game tonight. And here's some issues.

Three, four, and two. I gotta tell you, sitting there. He went on Saturday. I did go. Wow. On Saturday. So in great seats. My Pally and Cass took me.

Not a whole lot happened. Got to tell you, boys. I'm just thinking about the moment where it's, the leaves are three, two, and two. they're leading against the Buffalo Sabres going into the third period, just played their best 40 minutes of the season, and having a moment like, okay, this is a pretty good option. Is the biggest disappointment, not just in the loss,

but the fact that you left the building feeling like nothing really happened. Nothing really happened. You lose, but you lose in ways where, I don't know, it would have been nice to lose a game with a bad bounce or just a few mistakes, but to come off a very disappointing finish to a Buffalo Sabres game where you gave away two points

and then to have a game Saturday night where you thought, okay, this is a rebound game and they've got to come back. It just didn't happen Saturday. Didn't happen. You know, it's been a tough four straight periods here for the Leafs. I know Sam, you had said prior to our show that like some panic in Leafs Nation.

Yeah. I'm sensing it. Yeah. I'm sensing it. I'm feeling it. I think expectations this year after a really down year last year, people were like excited to have some fun and have it feel a little bit different. And lots of pucks are entering the net.

And then you open up the standings and you look at it. They're in last place in the Atlantic and they, you know, there's lots of people. My neighbor walked by this morning and goes, another lost season. Really? Yeah. Oh, my God. Like, it just. It happens fast.

I grew up here. I lived here. I got to play for the team. It'll, and it'll never get past me like this roller coaster from game to game where they're either going to win the cup renewed optimism,

great energy, a great vibe to this. And it's all within like days. I would like to make it clear here, Kipper. I'm not panicked. I'm really not. I think it's early. But there is some panic out there. I'm sensing a little bit of it

from my Leaf fan brothers and sisters. I'm getting some texts from buddies. and the way my group chats are looking and the it's just the way i don't know like i think they got a lot of good aspects of a good hockey team but i think they have too many bad aspects of a bad hockey team where it's just like it's not coming together right right now you're just again i'm blown away and i'm i'm you just pick up your phone and if you just scroll for less than five seconds like 80% of the, I don't even know if they're Lee fans

or not Lee fans, but they're just like, you know, get rid of Hiller. Hiller's done. Get rid of them. Fire them. Get Bruce Cassidy in. I'm like, get rid of Hiller.

Get rid of, like, are you serious? Get rid of Hiller after nine games. Like, that would be faster than Katie Zachariah. I mean, that would be a faster firing than Katie. I don't know what that means. The press secretary, the fact that you got that and you can't get Sam Gacierrez. The White House, the White House secretary. Now I know what you're talking about.

Like, is that, is he, that's who he is now? He is not Katie Zachariah. Okay. Absolutely. All right. So like, easy on the. Well, I never said. Everybody.

Put firing the coach. I'm talking about everybody. But he's not getting fired. To the coaching. part of it. And we talked with this Friday after the most famous benching in sports history of Gavin McKenna getting benched. We talked about it on Friday. And our big takeaway was him doing that on Friday brought him into the spotlight. And I think people were pretty excited about how it was going and how they were scoring a lot. And it was better than it did last year. But by doing that

and the way they played in the third and now, yeah, like, I mean, are you surprised that people are saying fire the coach. People fire the coach immediately all the time here. That's what we do. I'm not saying that, by the way. Definitely am one of those guys. And I totally agree with you that it was, he just didn't need to go down that path of making it so obvious.

And it's not just any player being fired. It is the first pick overall. And this guy has come in with so much hype. and the spotlight's on them. And if you want to bench them, and I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have brought that upon myself. But it's not so much, Sammy, the benching I have a problem with,

or not have a problem with is probably too strong. But it's just the way he kind of handled it is, for me, the bigger issue here is. We missed you Friday. glad to have you weigh in on this. Yeah, listen, it was, I found it unnecessary for him to, to draw that attention as you just spoke to. It was just an unforced air. But here's the butt part, okay.

You're the head coach, and that's your job, and you're paid to make those decisions. And if he wanted to bench him, he had every right to bench him. Agreed. Okay. Totally agree with that. Where he doesn't kind of, kind of get. that in this market, if you're going to go down that path with

the most highly celebrated first round pick and leaf history with the national commercials and like he is a spotlight guy. He's not just benching any player. He's not benching me. He's not benching a fourth liner. Star.

He's a star already. In the minds of this marketplace, he's one of the stars. It's going to draw attention. But to go on the podium after and kind of overtalk it, in my opinion, with some of the things where it's like, yeah, I try to get them out there, but, you know, it didn't work out or we, you know, kind of got lost in the shuffle. Whatever he tried to talk himself, it's like, no, no, don't go down that path.

You don't know anybody, any explanations. Okay. He needed two words and he needed not to say another word. word about it. And those two words were coach's decision. Don't talk yourself out of it. You don't know any explanation to anybody. Coach's decision and you leave it at that. You want to guess that we had a falling out? You want to guess that I don't like his defensive play. Then you write about it. You talk about it on real Kippenbord. Not your socks off, but I don't owe you anything. And when he started talking about like he got lost and I couldn't get him back. I wanted to get him back

out there, but I couldn't. It's like, what do you mean? You wanted to get them out there. You're the coach. You're in, you're the one that decides it at that moment. Why couldn't you, if you wanted to get them out there, all you do is go, you're up next and problem solved. But like to go into a podium and start, and that's what pissed people off, I think. Totally. And I think, And I think from that point, that's all really well said, from him not playing a shift in that game, from that into Saturday night, and the way they looked and the way they played,

it's been a vibe shift totally around this team. Like an immediate vibe shift. And then he hammers him out there for 18 minutes in a game where, you know, he didn't look bad. We got the full Gavin McKenna experience on Saturday. You know, there are some soft plays of weak stuff. There were some awesome plays and great stuff. And then he, and then Gavin has to go to the, and talk about it.

And he has to convince the media that we've got a good relationship and we're okay. And it's like, who's the adult in the room? Like, that's asked backwards to me. Yeah. Okay. It's the coach that she's, it's not the player. The player doesn't need to have to talk people off the ledge on our relationship. Yeah.

Not an 18 year old kid. I mean, God, he's a good talker, though. McKenna? Like, I mean, it's what he said, you shouldn't have to, like you said. Shouldn't have to. What he said was perfect.

I mean, I don't know. It's, it's the wrong, it's the wrong order, though. Yeah. It's the wrong order. Totally agree. So there's,

outside of that, you're the coach, man. You want to bench him, bench him. He's, he's a rookie. And if, if he believes that he had a lead

and he felt he couldn't check to save it, that's your call. End of story. But for people to go on about it, like it was the most talked about broken down. I know you did. And the reason why you did it is because there's such a thirst for it.

I wanted to understand it because I knew I was going to be on air talking about it. Because there's a thirst for it. Exactly. But that, like, Jack Hughes, okay, first pick overall in New Jersey. That guy gets benched or. Nobody cares. Only in Toronto does a benching like that become the most important story of the day. Oh, buddy, I threw red meat into the lion's cage.

I know you did. I know you did because that's what we feel that people want. And you just answered the thirst for it, I guess, out there. Yeah. It would be hard to come on here and not talk about it. Did they lose because he benched McKenna? No, but I do believe that he lost. Benching McKenna was a symptom of.

the failure, right? Like that he, it shows the decision making, which was stop thinking about offense, stop thinking about creating goals, go into a shell. So it's symbolic of the greater decision that costs in the game. Then talk about that, that's the storyline.

That is, right? That is ultimately the storyline. And it was a storyline in L.A. They had a problem with them in L.A. too, eh? Well, sure. This is, this is kind of following up a little bit on blown leads or trying to protect the lead for Hiller. So.

Now that said, to pivot into Saturday night, that was not the problem on Saturday. Are you good on the McKenna part here? Yeah. Just to finish off with the Hiller thing and talking about the L.A. stuff, what happened over that game and then into Saturday where they looked terrible

is it ended the honeymoon. The honeymoon is now over with Leef fans. And Lee fans are now dialed in on him, watching everything. 20 years married now. Yeah, like they're really. old tweets from like people in LA about benching guys and using ice time

and like they're just way more dialed into him now so yeah anyways go ahead it wasn't the problem on Saturday night you know I had tweeted yesterday a little bit about this but the islanders are a certain type of team they're veteran pros right it's Palat it's Horvat it's Palmy

it's Paso it's Shen it's a lot of big solid pros DeBoer as we know as a solid systems coach the least couldn't get in And so now you've kind of got this trend where when the other team is fast and skilled, the leaves D looks dicey. And when the other team is heavy and defensive, their forwards look dicey. So, you know, they are capable of doing both things,

but they have these problems to overcome. And I thought against the aisles, Marchenko didn't look great. He didn't have the same poppinus drive. The stars weren't quite there. I don't know if Willie was starting to get sick. We know he's sick today. But they're just, if you didn't get it from the stars, it just kind of wasn't happening.

But that's where you're your third or fourth. fourth liners are supposed to come in and change momentum or change the feel or drag people into a fight. Yeah. Did anybody do that to the degree where you could actually alter the feel of the game? Zissons got him back into it. He scored the goal, tipped him, got it back into it. But that line, Blugard Duhame Sizzins had the puck in the offensive zone. Most of the game, they had like 80-some percent expected goals.

They played, I think McEwen is over 10 minutes or around 10 minutes, if I'm not mistaken. But then the stars didn't follow you. is what you're saying. Kind of, yeah. You know, like, that was their best line, which is really damning. I mean, they're not McDavid, though. Like, they're not, they're just not going to be,

like, you're going to need to be able to win a game where you don't get a goal from Willie or Matthews. Like, especially with no Tavares, like, you're going to need contributions from other guys around the lineup. And that was where you felt it. Like, if Matthews or Willie aren't doing it, it kind of felt, you know, Cowan had some pop, I thought,

but it just great player. Let's get to Jim Hiller. on the fourth line that J.B. just spoke of moments ago, clip six. Well, I thought our fourth line, if that's what you want to call them, had their best game of the season against the Islanders, and maybe we're a most effective line. So to me, that was a really important game from them. We need that game night after night.

They gave us the identity that we were looking for. And then, you know, up above that, we've got to build on that. We've got to kind of take our cue from them a little bit. They've played a little bit greasier. That's what we need to do. So you got the emotion. Yeah, maybe emotion's not the right word. They had the puck along the wall and in the right end.

I mean, you know, I don't want to overstate. Well, emotion wasn't my word. It was Austin's word. Okay. Yeah. His word was that they need to. That's tonight, though, I think. Yeah, about tonight.

Yeah, he's talking about tonight. Yeah, taking off of Saturday night and bringing some emotion into tonight. You want to have a listen to that? Sure. Austin Matthew. Yeah, just emotion, I think. We just want to make sure that we come out and we're skating. We're moving.

We're playing. and doing the right things. Playing with better structure, I think, can help, you know, minimize some of the mistakes. I think that, you know, we've had. But, you know, for the most part, it's just got to be, you know, some emotion and making sure that we come out ready to play and go from there.

Were you disappointed that so much has been made out of Austin start and then he just to have that quiet of a night? Yeah, I mean, It wasn't his best game of the year. Are we just down to it happens? Well, I think guys don't play good 84 times, 82 times, whatever time. I don't think he was bad by any means. I thought he was probably their most effective guy with the puck and all that.

But yeah, you got higher expectations for him. I don't know where you want to. Well, when he says that emotions, like, does he play with emotion? Like, is he asking other guys to do that? Like, what does he mean by that? Like, I mean, he says, play physical, do this or whatever. I don't know what I'm confused as to what do you think he means like run into people fight people like what does he mean when they scored to make it to one there's a palpable shift in energy yes for the Leafs like they started they had the momentum and to me I don't know if you want to call it emotion but there's an energy that they were just feeding through about three or four shifts and then they make a couple of stupid plays and they shoot it in Leafs net and the game was over yeah you know like it was just like one of the things so maybe that emotion for the Leafs looks more like energy mm-hmm Because, yeah, he's not going to go fight some guy.

Do you think the fourth line should be fighting someone to create that? No, listen, I think when he speaks of emotion, he speaks to what you just said off the top of the show that nothing really happened. Nothing happened. Right? And he's not an emotional kind of guy to begin with. No.

So it's kind of vague. I'm with you a little bit. It's vague on what he means by emotion. I don't know. Like, he's got emotion when he scores a goal. I know that. You can see it, right? I mean, he loves scoring goals.

And when he does, and he celebrates, you can see some real emotion. Remember early in his career with the hand on the ear? He's trying to score. That is, there's no doubt about that. That is. Crushed it. He gets them fired up.

So, D-Corps or goalies? I've got power play, too. Let's go goalies first, because that's the start of the D. Okay. In my opinion. All right. Yeah. A lot of people,

there's a lot, like, we're doing early comparison stuff and a lot of people looking at wall, Wall's numbers early, a lot of people looking at Hilda B's numbers early. There feels to be an early

sort of anti-feeling on the Leafs goaltending right now and people are starting to get a little bit worried about it. Where are you guys sitting on them? Yeah, we'll start with Bobroski. Bobrov. Clearly. Yeah.

So when his name started first surfacing, you gave a, oh no, you hated the idea. Sure did. Right? And I don't think there was, it was overwhelmingly, wow, a two-time Stanley Cup champion coming up here would be great. On the surface, you could talk yourself into it, but then you've got to go back to two very important facts.

He's at the end of his career. albeit this year next year, the year after on a three-year deal. Number one. And number two is he had his worst season. Right. Worst season of his career. And whether or not it was just a one-off or no, this is what generally happens with people in their late 30s. They fall off a cliff.

Yeah, like Gratzky's last year he scored nine goals. You know, like, you're still in 70 points, I think. Yeah. You can be awesome. You can be awesome, but things, you know, that's a step back from 170. So going, if you look at the first nine games, the concern is that it's still trending for Bobrovsky from his season last year into the first nine games of the season. It's very, it looks very consistent to the numbers that are in his save percentage or his average or those of, those are just trending right through.

Yeah, I'll say I don't think he's been bad. Like, I'm not putting any of this on him. His numbers are horrible. Well, they're not, though. His, uh, let's see, like goal saved above expected. He's 1.6. We do not agree. He's 20th in the league, you know?

20th's no good. Yeah, it's better than league, you know, average of how many guys have played, 65 guys have been in the net. He's, he's fine. He's not a mid. He's mid. 743 saved. percentage on high dangerous shots at five on five ranks and 31st amongst those 36 goalies.

What a cherry pick one type of shot. I'm not a huge. I'm not a huge stats guy, but like the numbers. The numbers stink. The answer for losers. The fancy numbers don't stink as much. He's been fine. He has not been, you know, the reason.

Finds no good. Well, maybe that's the case. And that's a conversation I'm open to having for sure is, you know, was, Keeping wool and spending the money for more help on defense, was that a better play? Maybe. You know, on the other hand, part of why you got Bobrovsky was you knew he could be there and he could play.

And he played two games in a row. He's playing again tonight. Again, if he's okay, is that enough? Apparently not, but make 7.5, you know, it's... Listen, I'm not... I don't want to do the wall thing because Wall had more than enough chance. here in terms of proving himself that he could be the goalie of the future and play a lot and whatever and there was more than enough examples the concern wasn't is he a good goalie

i had never been a skill issue with him and he's had a good start to the year for philly who stinks he's been one of the reasons like we had charlie o'connor on it said the goaltending's actually been good there and they still never win so i don't really want to do the wall thing yet like if we if he plays 55 games we're talking about this in june we can have a conversation then but like I'm not really willing to do that yet. But like, do you... I'm not going back to Wall. No.

I'm totally with you 100%. He had his chance. Yes. And it wasn't there. Move on. But like, I don't know. What did we expect Barbrowski to look like? Did we expect...

Average. Did you expect him to have the best numbers in the league? No, I expected him to probably steal a couple of games by now. He did. He sold that he got them three points in the road trip, right? Like he was unbelievable against... Vegas. He was amazing against Colorado.

And they won both those, oh, they got three points of those games, which you look back, they didn't get those three points. We're really having a grim conversation. But it's just early. They scored one on the Islanders. People are really throwing him away?

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not saying that the Leafs are in the bottom of the Atlantic division because of him today. I'm not saying that. But he's, I'm just saying that it's, it's just still kind of trending towards you're not going to see the best of Bob. For sure. I don't.

I agree. But I think the thought with Bob was that they thought maybe this team's good enough to get in the playoffs. And if you get into the playoffs, in a short series. Playoffs would be a great drop right now because they're sitting at the bottom of the Atlantic. But like, if you're thinking about that, how many goalies are you going to want in a playoff series, how good he's been in the playoffs when they get there? I'm on board with that, even though I've said that I don't, you know, I'm skeptical. I'm on board with the playoff idea.

Now, we do have the news. Archer Actiamov is called up today. Nice. You know, we had a conversation the other day where they didn't pull Bob or was it, no, didn't pull Stolar's because you didn't want to put Bob in because you wanted Bob to start the next game. Yeah, it's like, we can't pull a goalie? Then what's the backup doing on the bench? So tonight, AA is going to back up Bob.

and then go to Columbus and back up Stolar's, which I love. You can put them in the net. If either guy struggles, you can put them in. I, I, I, non-visuals, that's a long face rub. I am. It's,

you're, this season just started. It's 10, it's nine games old. Yeah. I don't know. Just, I,

just keep the team together. Go on a, it's a 40-minute flight to Columbus. You know, I mean, we're... Well, you can still go. And he's biological Bob. Hey, he's really got the body of a 24-year-old. Come on. You can still go.

He can still go for dinner. He's not going. He's not going to go. Well, no, I mean... I don't know. I mean, I'm... Maybe I'm just old school, but, you know, keep the team together. I wonder if part of it's, like, toss A, A, A Bone.

He gets his NHL pay for a couple of it. couple days. Yeah. You know, he's working hard down there. No, no, we don't, they don't care about bones like that. No? No, I don't think so. But I'm sure that they have sleep science people and, you know, whatever recovery people

that were like, this is probably a great idea. Yeah. The coach does weigh in on it. You want to tell me you're doing that in game 50, 55, where, like. Well, maybe you do it now because you don't have to do it in game 50. Maybe. Yeah. Good early.

Listen, Bob wants the rest. He's, you know, he's okay with that. Bob doesn't want to go on a road trip. Don't go. Let's listen to the coach. Jim Hiller, clip 1, YAA was called up. Well, we got a back-to-back, so he'll back up the next couple nights,

and then we'll give Bob to start tonight and still he'll play tomorrow, and they'll get some rest. There you go, some rest. They're really big on the rest thing, by the way. They've got it all mapped out, and, you know, there's tape measurements involved, and protractors, and they got it all figured out.

Nothing your era of hockey. player hates more than rest. You guys, it's just like. Plans and rest. No optional skates. Get on the ice. Get on the plane. It's really a simple game.

It's really, it's like, what's that line in Bulldoorm? And what? Bull Durham. Oh, yeah. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Yeah. This is why I love Daryl Sutter.

He's the same way. He's like, this is not rocket surgery out there. No. You know, it's, it's, this season's nine games old. You're right on that. You're right on that. Come on guys. So you don't, where do you have the Leafs?

I will say the last, whatever, three, four days. Yeah. Have taken me from, this is a real, this team's got it to. Yes. They're not ready for the playoffs. Well, I do think that they're going, you know, massive changes. We said there'd be some growing pains as we figured things out. I do think that this is a good team.

you know, D, notwithstanding, need a little bit of help there. I still am. You can't just say they're a good team and then go to the defense is horrible. Well, I do think it's not getting it done. Part of it is that I do think everything's great. I don't think they're just going to sail into the moonlight. Okay. Again, every once in a while you go through the Internet.

Yep. Everybody's got answers. Yeah. Right? And apparently the Leafs are just one trade away from becoming, Stanley Cup contenders. And I'm like, who is that? Like, where do you think he's coming from?

For sure. And I will tell you this, that I think even if you added Wurinsky to this team right now, it doesn't make them Stanley Cup contenders. No. Right? It doesn't necessarily put them at the top as one of the teams that has a great chance to win the Stanley Cup. Could it get them? Could it help them get, you know, into the playoffs?

Yes. But they're not one guy away anywhere, anywhere. Yeah. So just take it easy on the one trade will change everything for him. If Zach White Cloud comes, there's some nights he could help the team for sure. But there's also a chance he could just get caught in his vortex too. I do think even all this, all this conversation, having and where they sit today, which is a low point, that this will be a genuine look back,

man, things look to kind of bleak there. I think they're better than this. They're better than this if they, they, they, but it's not a trade is my biggest point. Yeah, it is just like you guys, get, get better. Like Jake McCabe, sorry, but you need to be one of their best defensemen, most reliable defensemen, and you got to be better. Yeah. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, you can't go from last year to what we see this year. Like, he's out there a minute and 20, minute, 30 on I think the third goal.

He's slow to his check. And it's like... It's like... Oliver Wreckman-Larsin, Larson, you've got to be a lot better. I agree with that. I like that. But he might not have better. Like he's getting up there, man.

That's one of my concerns. You might be right. But if that's the case, then really... That changes things. That changes things completely. Yeah. If you're right, if McCabe's not like top pair level,

as he was last year, that would hurt things. Like just, for example, we're talking about the goalies and everybody is burying Bobrovsky and burying stolards. Like,

just think of the goals that got scored on Saturday night. The go ahead, the 2-1 goal, or 2-0-0-0-0-0. You know, Brovsky stretches across to rob a grade A chance

and then just remit- And then the Holmstrom one, the 3-1 goal, it's just a guy sitting below the hash marks that shoots it into the net wide open. Like, I don't know how many goals this year, boys, have been guys coming straight down the shoot wide open, the deep back and way off. And he gets beat clean on those. For sure. You know? And it's like, you need a save there. He hasn't been perfect.

But, like, a lot of the goals that have gone in have been absolute grade A high dangers. And that third one, McKenna did kind of get walked off the wall by Horner. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, the other thing, too, is, I'm sorry, but you lost two key pieces, but you lost two key pieces that are 35 plus. Like, where was your insurance if TAN of went down?

Where was your insurance if Tavares, who's out with a MCL grade two, that could be six to eight weeks? where's your backup plan? Honestly, Kip, they signed 11 new guys. Like, you couldn't have possibly gone into the summer and built in for every possible outcome, you know? You needed someone that looked the part.

May not be ready. But Nick Paul's not, he's not legit second line centerman. Well, that's fine. For a playoff team. I don't think that's just out there. That's your point about defense, though. they went and got guys that could play center and fill in these minutes. Yeah, but you didn't need to go spend $11, $12 million on Sizzins and do Hame and

Bluger. Bluger. And like, it's too much. It's too much. Give me one guy that looks the part of a second line center, me and a younger one. I don't know. Go find them.

You'd love to have developed something like that. Something. Well, they did. And then they traded them for Brennan Carlo. Oh, so. Yeah, I mean like, there's, you know,

there's flaws. A lower line guy. Okay. There's flaws in that, in John Tavares' game, obviously that I wish were better or I like more. But holy moly, do they miss him,

right? That compete, that six feet radius, the battle's on the wall. And, like, they don't have, like,

that's a big hole. John Tavaris has left them a very big hole right now. Oh, yeah. Like, I mean, he's far from perfect, but he's a hell of a lot better that they have right now. So, and it's week to week with him? What's that mean?

How long we're thinking? I told you, six to eight weeks maybe. You did tell me that? I just said it. He told it to all of them. Oh, my bad. I was, like, week to week, I don't know who said it.

Babcock said it. He nailed it. Week to week is four to six weeks. But when you're dealing with an MCL, I don't know, could be six. Could be longer. You and I have both torn MCL, Skip. It's not easy to get back.

Well, I don't think his is torn. I don't think it's torn. Okay. So I think he's okay. Okay. The other thing I want to just say, because I miss Friday, is on the John Tavares. I don't know if you kind of recall the play, but Nick Paul and Tavares are out there. And they don't know whether they're going left or right on each other.

Nick Paul just absolutely skates a check right into Tavares. And that to me had no barely any exhibition games together, short training camp, don't have a feel for one another, not, I don't have any instincts or anything. It was just like, God Almighty, it was just a horrific kind of look of a play that, You chocked the injury after preseason? I chalked that injury right into the fact that these guys are just brand new, don't really know each other, don't have a feel for each other. And now it's just like a stupid, stupid injury.

Yeah. It's nuts too because like Tavares never gets hurt. He's played 95% of his career games or something. So this is, that was a very unusual. Yeah. And it's just like unfamiliar with each other. I'm not sure who is center. I'm not even sure who was wing,

but they looked apart of two strangers on the ice. And it's a shame because, you know, like I said, they need John. They need John's competitiveness around a puck. Tonight, Nealander is sick. He missed morning skate. Sounds like he may play, but grew skated with Matthews and Rossevick.

Cowan Paul Marchenko. And Vinny Letary got called up. Letary had 26 points in the AHL postseason last year for the Marl. a huge part of their Calder Cup run, 31 years old. Rips a pocket. Didn't really get a sniff in training camp this year, given the guys they had coming in. So just a quick thought on Viteri here,

or Latteri, Hiller, clip two, on what he likes about the new edition. Yeah, well, you know, Latteri, I think we talked about him a little bit in training camp. Really impressed me. It was a funny training camp this year. We kind of split the groups really early. And I remember being on the ice with the second group,

and he was just working. and it really, really caught my eye right away. You know, I'm sure he wanted to be with the big group and feel like he had a fairer chance of making the team. Terrific attitude, you know, skilled. But just his work ethic and his passion really, really caught me. You know, and then he's done a great job for the Marley's going back to last year's playoffs. Nine points in five games for the Marley's this year.

I went to one of those playing games. I don't know, like before the playoffs to the Marley's last year. And he hit a slapper that from above the circle that went bar down, as ferocious bar down as you're going to see. So he hits it hard. So, Terry. And he's played a ton of NHL game.

What's a ton to you? 150? I think it's probably about 140, 150. 155, yep. We were going to go to break here, but. Minus 47. Minus 47? Sorry.

I'll fit right in. Saw the Bruins practice lines today. And one Zedorov on the outside looking in. saw a few tweets about that this weekend, potentially from even his agent. Do you see that? Oh, yeah. Well, let's take a break and talk about that after.

All right, Tammy. Goes the door off. What would it take to get to the door off? You know what? Premium asset. Great thing. We'll get into that. We'll talk assets and prospects and all that good stuff

when we return to Real Kippering Bourne. Hey, it's Matt Markeesie. And I'm Mike Feuda. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. It's the fan hockey show on Sportsnet 590 to fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back in studio.

Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, 730 puck dropped, Toronto, and San Jose, which leads into our Monday night hockey. Our host of Monday night hockey, David Amber, will be also in studio in the second hour. I will say, I'm going to put it, Ben Ennis does this for Jay's games in the morning show. Ben Ennis must win. This is a Sam McKee. must win tonight, the least. It's a big game tonight. Must win.

3-5 and 2. Vives are way different. And like, I mean, we haven't even mentioned it, but it's 1 versus 2, right? In terms of the first overall pick going to be second. Let's talk about that a little bit and we'll get into that with David 2. You don't care. I care about like their seasons compared to one another. I don't care about a game. I really am looking forward to in one game measuring up one another's shifts.

10 years ago today, Austin Matthews, who's first overall, went up against Patrick Lina second overall. And do you remember what happened to that? It was awesome. No, it wasn't.

Linae had a hat trick and Matthews had a little measly assist. No, Matthews had... I think he had a couple goals. No, I think he went toe to toe with them. You guys are thinking of the mutual hat trick game. This 10 years ago was a... All I remember is...

The toe-to-to-to-game. In overtime of that game... Yes. Austin Matthews broke in on a breakaway and was stoned by, I don't know, I guess it would have been whoever the hell was in. And then Patrick came right back down on the ice and went high glove. Yeah, to win the game. And 10 years later, Matthews is on Alex O'Vetchkin's goal scoring pace

in the captain of the least, and line A is available for league minimum and no one wants them. So does that game mean anything? That's an incredible story. Yeah, it was cool. We're talking about it 10 years later because it was memorable. What did they go do with Hattricks? Okay. And I'll agree to say that it's cool, but not that it means anything.

Because Patrick Liny fell off the face of the earth the last two years, that diminishes what we saw. Yeah, you know why? No, it does not. It does not. Because the idea people are going into this trying to be like, who's where, how do they compare? They picked him over him. Will he get his revenge? It's like, it doesn't mean anything for their careers.

But they were equals back then. Equals. To-to-to-to-equals. And so are McKenna and Sandman. That's why we're looking forward to it. Well, we might get a cool game, but I'll call it cool. It just doesn't mean anything. God, I love this show.

It's one versus two. It matters. It matters. And listen, if Stenberg... No, no, no. It's cool and it doesn't matter. If Stenberg has a better night to McKenna, I'll be sour. Sammy and his buddies could, like, turn around and go, we got the better guy.

Yes. Sammy and his buddies also don't matter. That we agree on. Okay, Zedorov. Zedorov. Big Zee. So Dan Milstein responded to, what's his name?

Zadarv gets scratched in Boston. Someone in Boston tweets, he wouldn't get treated like this in Toronto. And Zadorov's agent responds, I agree he wouldn't. Has Milstein done any business with the lease recently? I believe quite a bit of business. Oh, have they flown on a private jet to Toronto

with one of his clients? So no different than Hiller with McKenna. If Boston wants to bench Zadorov, they're completely within their rights. I don't agree with Milstein sticking his nose in there. Well, maybe Milstein would like his player to play somewhere else. But there's better ways to do it. There's better ways to do it, right?

Is he trying to force? That stuff should be behind the scenes. And if you want to go up to Boston and say, we know Toronto wants them, trade them to Toronto, then you should do that behind the scenes, not play it out social media. This is the new era, right? This is the war for the PR.

That's like putting, pressure on Boston. It all changed the Leo Carlson contract today in the way it changed contract. Alan Walsh's sword in the back of Mark Andre Flurry changed the public. The oil painting. From agents, yeah. Couldn't have even been done by AI back then, right? That was pure oil. It doesn't. You can think it helps, but it doesn't do anything. Can I make a absolute plea, Chica? No more trades with the rules.

No, no, I don't care about that. Just no more trades with the Bruins. I think the Leafs should have gone after him a lot earlier. He'd be a crazy. And he's a character and he provides that sandpaper. Yeah, it can be a handful sometimes for sure. But, yeah, I would have liked him. But again, what do you think you have if you're the Leafs to give up?

I don't want Ben Danford traded. Okay, right now, I don't. I don't want him traded for White Cloud. I don't want to trade him for Zedorf. I don't want him. I don't want him moved. Enough. Enough.

Enough of first round picks, developed time and money, and then just throw him away for a hope and a prayer. Enough. Did that with Lillegrin? Did that with Sandine. done that with like 20 years enough. Ben Danford, he drafted him, you're developing him.

Steve Sullivan's got him with the Marley's. They talk about upside with him being much more than just a maxed out Chris Tannav, which would in itself be great, but they're talking about he can do more, he can skate, he can join a rush, develop him and see what comes out, whether it's towards the latter part of this year, or next year, do not trade them. So no trading picks from you, no trading prospects. Just be better.

Just ask the guys on the team right now to be better to get them in the playoffs. And if it's not good enough, then it's not good enough. Play the right way. How about that? And you got no pick. Cowan? I don't want to hear anybody talking about trading Cowan. He just traded nyes.

Stop it. Stop the insanity. Stop chasing your tail. and thinking like you're going to win at Blackjack. But you could win at Blackjack. What if you... The house is in tremendous favor. 48% chance, baby.

Here we go. Play it right. What if you hit Blackjack? What if that ace comes up after you got the king up there? Oh, six again. How good does that feel? How good does that feel? How many trades did he make? Who? Chica.

10? 15 players. 30 players have been in trades since he got here. Okay. You gave it a good shot. You gave it a good shot. So you're just, okay, let me, the tone is that you just want them to ride this thing out.

I want them. If nine games is not enough to see what you have, every time this happens, I'm like, they're never as bad, they're never as bad as you think they are, and they're never as good as you think they are. That's the Leafs. Okay.

So let's find out what they have still. Okay. I'm on board with let's play the game 20. You want to go and make a trade now and chase it still? Stop it. Problem is you're kind of in for a penny and for a pound with this group. Well, it's over, yeah. It's over.

It's over. It's over for the pound of flesh still to take off of you. You did it. You did it. You gave it a good shot. Don't. No half measures. You have no first round.

Can you imagine now, worst case scenario, they finished bottom three. Won the lottery. At least, at least you could have sat there and said McKenna now is with that. DuPont.

But you don't even get to do that for the next two years. Yeah, but they got McKenna. But he's by himself. No, he's not. I'm sorry? He's not by yourself. Why? Okay, so now I'm going to say the thing

where Matthews is on the team and you're going to say, but he's going to leave. I'm telling you he's going to leave. I'm telling you he's going to leave. If they finish bottom three. Exactly. And what did Willie say? I ain't sticking around.

What's this if they finish bottom three top? I'm saying if... Get a little horned up here, boys. Let's just... No, let him say. Bottom 10. But if they had a first rounder, at least you can sit there and go, okay, you know,

it's going to turn. But, like, you got no picks, even if you finish in a lot. lottery situation. You got no picks. So stop with whatever you have assets left with Cowan and Ben. Leave him alone. Can you, are we allowed, I'm asking you,

are we allowed to trade the 2027 Colorado pick for a player? So Elliot went on and said. Premium. Yeah. Yeah. But I got news for you. That's not premium. It's not premium.

The 30th pick. The 30th pick is not premium. It's a difference. You know, it's premium. Top 10 or top 10, top 12 first round picks, either to be used or already used on a top blue chip prospect. That's premium. Colorado's pick.

I got other news for you. They're going to trade pieces. I don't know. They can trade whatever they want, but don't trade. the two guys that I told you. Cowan and Danford off the table for you. Just, I agree. It's not even that they're going to be great.

They could turn out and not be great. But the mentality of chasing and, and having guys that you develop and spend money and time on just to chuck them away and try to put a band-aid somewhere is no good. It could, it could damage you for the next 10 years. But here's what the problem is. I'm fully on board. with you may have to eat some uppercuts

and just get beat up for a little bit at some point. You are still in a window where you don't have this pick the next couple years. You still have Austin Matthews and you still have lots of talent on this team. There's no reason all this talent is not at least a playoff worthy team. So to get to this point

where you feel like you're kind of a playoff team, kind of not, and then do nothing and just kind of miss playoffs and still not have a pick. What are you doing for two years? You're not even treading water. You're just drowning. It's not that you didn't do nothing. You've done amazing, like you've done so many.

Like, John Chica is like Phil Esposito, Trader Phil, right? The guy, Trader Phil traded a first rounder for a coach. Thank God Chica can't do that. Oh, yeah. Thank God. John's not allowed to do that. But like, he's tried. He's done it.

He's made tremendous changes already. Okay, that's not working. Let's go make more changes. Just, just, oh, take a breath. There's a really good chance. I agree with let it settle. There's a really good chance you could just be digging the hole deeper. I don't disagree.

I'm playing devil's abdicate. I get the idea. I know. I get the idea that it's like, it's risky. What would the internet talk about if they just let things just settle? Settle. And they, you know, they're kind of skim along at 500. It's hard to get better as the year goes on.

I would really hope that Matt Sundeen and John Chica don't care about the internet. That would be my, my number one goal. Because if they care about what people like me are saying. Are we the Internet? Yeah. Totally. We are the Internet, buddy. We're surfing the Wide Web, World Wide Web, WWW.

That's fair. In the meantime. Yeah. Got to win tonight. Win. Big win. Big win. Tonight.

Today. You're going to have to skate with them. Yeah, he can go. They can go. Good news. They're deer trash too. Should be fireworks tonight. I'm calling a 5-4-0-0-2 win.

Their goal tending suspect, too. Big numbers tonight. It's nice for Bob to make some save. 41 save shutout. Bob will get a big win, and he'll really enjoy his day off tomorrow. Yeah. Biological Bob.

Ascarov might get in. What's his name? That's not Ascarov. No. Atchia. Atchia. Ascaro plays for the shirt. All right.

Connor Hellebuck. The latest on. Connor Hellebuck is we go national. We'll tell you what to expect Friday when he reports to work. That more when we return to real Kippenborin.