Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Facing Off J.T. Miller and His New Team

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee revisit the Leafs' response to hits on Easton Cowan against the Nashville Predators before jumping into useful or useless stats, including the team's offensive zone time, forecheck, and the blue line's offensive production. Then, Kyper shares why he wouldn't trade away Nick Robertson amid the rumours that the Leafs are shopping the 24-year-old winger. Later, MSG Network's hockey analyst Dave Maloney stops by (32:30) to chat about Artemi Panarin and Mika Zibanejad's offensive outlooks this season, the shift in attitude on the roster with the addition of J.T. Miller, head coach Mike Sullivan's acclimation with his new team and where he sees NYR stacking up in the Metropolitan Division.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's the leap hour edition of our real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto. And streaming, as always, on Sportsnet Plus. And you can always catch us on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube when you don't catch us live. This hour of Real Kipper and Born, brought to by Bet365. as the Toronto Maple Leafs gets set to host an all-original matchup with the New York Rangers. I didn't Neil Enders skate today.

Maintenance or whatever. Content creator meeting. For his YouTube channel? Yeah. He's getting ready because he... He's getting ready because he could become the fifth Maple Leaf player to record three, three-point games through the first five games of the season.

I knew you were going to put that in there to piss him off. I almost read it too. It's actually the most ridiculous stat you've ever put in here. I knew. If he gets a three-point game. But he is the only Maple Leaf in history to do that and still be asked to do more in the first few games of the NHL season. There's a good article up on Sportsnet right now on Neelander by Adam Vingen.

It's about Nealander's slow start to the season. Last game, he was good. So three bad games. He's so good that he's the only one that could, he's very few guys, I guess, get to a level where, like, you could just friggin' turn the switch on and dominate. Yeah. Just dominate.

Like, he's so skilled. It's so easy to him. And I think that's what at times can be the most frustrating thing, is that we all know you could sit on the bench and just, go out there and do whatever you want. I think it looks like that. I don't think he can. No, I think he can.

You think so? I just... Think of every shift he had, whose mentality. It's just, I think it's just in his mind where if it's not happening, then it's like, whatever's left on my shift,

20 seconds, 15 seconds, if I stay out there longer, 30 seconds, it's, do I want to salvage anything left in this shift or do I just go to the bench and wait for my next one and then then kick it up. He does have the most

definitive line changes sometimes or he'll be like, that's enough. And it seems like when he can't get to it, he's not going to push to get to it. He's four scoring chances last game up from one per game in the first three. Yeah. All the numbers went up. All right. So the near Granger's in town

and a little later on we're going to talk to Dave Maloney from MSG Network. We'll get a feel for what has to be the most frustrated team in the league right now where they started out with no goals in three games on home ice, never been done before, never will be done ever again. Oh, you don't think so?

Calling her shot. Dude, it's really tough to pull that off. Not good. Like, come on. Yeah, the previous record was actually not three complete games but like a similar amount of time in the 1920s or something so this is very rare and they have talent on their team so i expect them yes to figure it out frustrated team motivated team leaves are in for a good game tonight should be a lot of fun um yesterday we did a little bit of a chat

about the lack of response for east and call and getting pile-drived into the post by weesblatt i don't remember did we talk about that we had a little a conversation about it. Something tells me it may have found its way back to the Toronto Maple Leafs because it was a bit of a conversation today at practice. Matthews talked about it. Do you hear Matthews thoughts on it? Love to.

Okay, let's play Matthews Clip one there, Derek. Good. I mean, you know, he's a smaller guy, but he's not afraid to go in those dirty areas. Obviously, you know, took a couple, I mean, kind of cheap hits, the one going to the net. stuff like that but I mean he's he's strong like I think he's deceptively a lot stronger than he maybe looks at times but um you know I think he's handled it really well I think he understands kind of the nature of you know moving up and playing at this level there's obviously a lot of

big guys out there strong men and um you got to protect yourself and I think he does a good job of that you're on your own fella no there's not uh there's not too much we got to do a better job of telling people to not do that anymore he's taking a bunch of cheap hits and he's going to continue to yeah he's stronger he looks listen you you made the point the other day okay that's that's not him it doesn't come naturally to austin even the reactions even a day later like what would you are you disappointed with those comments he just had yeah i you know kip it's funny right because i really pride myself on trying to be like logical and there are things that matter more than punching guys after the whistle

and sometimes we get like laser focused on no they need to do more of the punching it's like no maybe they need to break the puck out better and then you win the game and then never but i will say i do think that this team for years has come up short in the department of you don't mess with our team we won't be pushed around we protect each other we have each other's back so yeah like i'd love to hear it however unlike you i'm not surprised I just, like, accept who they are now. But yes, I'd love to hear him come out and be like, I, you know, in retrospect, it would have been nice if, you know,

Chris Tanna had punched him in the mouth or if McCabe had grabbed them or maybe next time we should. I don't know. There's a pass in October, right? No, yeah, now is the time where you should do it. But no, no, no, no, because let's be honest, that topic of conversation on Cowan didn't come up after the game. probably didn't come up on morning shows

we bring it up and then it goes back it goes back to them and then it becomes a and I'm not sitting here patting ourselves on the back but I'm saying where is the rest of the feel for that in October because I'm telling you

if they would have lost game one to the Florida Panthers that would have been the hottest topic of conversation 24 hours later I'm flipped on this because I see I'm flipped on this Because I saw people being like, if that was game seven,

you sure would have liked to see him stand up. What are you talking about? It's game seven, that's when you need to be on the power play. That's when you don't need to send stupid messages. Game seven, it never happens. Game one, it does. I don't care if we take a suspension. I'm talking about game one.

I'm not talking about game one. I'm talking about game one. Yeah, game one. Game one. It would have been a hot button topic. It also was Nashville too. So is it like, yeah, maybe we don't need to do it against Nashville. It just feels like the perfect time to be like,

we're different now. See, I'm not overly disappointed in Austin because I don't think it's in and Sam made this point. It's just not him, it's not his makeup, it's not the way he was raised in Arizona. So how can you get bled out of a stone? And also I would

present you the Ottawa senators whose captain just responded to something and now is out for eight weeks with wrist surgery. So there's a if, I mean, that comes more natural to him. He's a bit of a mutant. But when you your best players responding to these certain things they put themselves in harm's way but i still think nice good done so anyways there's guys on the roster for sure uh i'm more

interested to go to the coach the coach uh addressed the same issue uh on potentially sticking up for cowen let's play that clip two please well i think they'll figure it out and handle the whatever the situation needs to be handled at the same time we've got a power play on the one so you can't react to that. I think it's important. You've got to stay disciplined. All scenarios are different when it comes to that. Our team, I'm not too worried about it. I think our team's going to stand up for each other and get in there. I know they are. They did it last year. I expect to do the same. But at the same time, you know, it's situational for me. We've got a

power play out of it. You know, power plays jobs to make them pay. no argument there but it's not situational until the game ends the game was long decided before the game was over so there was plenty of like the saying goes we have long memories we can have we can we can we can go back and revisit that long after that the second after it happened I just didn't see it I saw it I saw the rest of the game as if it never happened at all

and that can't happen yeah I think there's a chance that they didn't think it was that bad oh my gosh all right I mean I watched the game in real time and I watched the hit yeah I was you know I was like

yeah it wasn't like oh my God the good thing is shot you know what I thought at the time if I'm being honest Cowan looked like someone who could be pushed over that was my first thought

rather than someone who could take a shoulder from that was my first thought I was like god I don't know if he's strong enough again I don't I don't even care if it was really vicious or just a little vicious it's about the message that you want to send Nashville and the rest of the league that if there is even a grayer I don't even care but just just know that if you touch them a little or you touch them a lot that you better get your head up because we're right here but here's the good news and Coach Bruby just touched on it there that it's early enough in the season that if they kind of slept on it a little bit,

now's the time moving forward here. There's, we just started here. I can tell you, if something greasy of it's tonight. Yeah. They'll be like, oh, it'll be over compensation tonight 100%. Good. As rent pay play it tonight?

I got, I got, I got, what a thing? the odds 50% chance Benoit gets in a fight tonight yeah you know like one of those guys who's like let's get her greasy here my job good yeah all it took was our show if we get fighting assists where else you want to go so I looked at a bunch of Leafs data through four games and I thought I could give you a useful or useless the team is in the bottom half of the league in zone time The worst at creating cycle chances and third worst and rebound chances through four games. Yeah. Is that anything?

Is that quick? Oh, my gosh. That's the whole game. Okay. That's as useful as you can have because it matches what I've seen so far. You know, I was thinking about why there's three again, Borny. So they're in the bottom half of the league in zone time, offensive zone time, and then third worst in rebound chances, worst in cycle chances.

Oh. However, in overall, like, chances, they still are top 10 because they get rush chances. They get, you know, stuff off broken plays, all that. So I was thinking about their roster. Why are they so bad at zone time? Two years in a row, they never have the puck in the ozone. Here's my theory, if you care to hear it. I do.

They got a bunch of guys who love to shoot it as soon as they touch it. It gets near Robertson's stick. He shoots it. Matthew shoots it. Tavar shoots it as soon he touches it. And then if it gets near Domi or Machelli stick, those type of guys, They try to make, they force a sauce through skates or whatever. They're immediately trying to create a grade A.

There's just a lot of guys who get rid of the puck. Who holds on to the puck in this lineup? Good question. Nick Waugh might, but we haven't seen it yet. Yeah. Nyes could, but they don't have a bunch of guys to do that. You watch, I think, the best team, and for obvious reasons, they've won the Stanley Cup twice,

but every time there was a dump in in big games during the playoffs for Florida, they got the puck back and if there was a 50-50 it became 90-10 real quick in favor of the Florida Panthers and I you don't see the same thing like sometimes you watch Matthew Nyes and he likes to dump and chase but often even in my experience as a as a four checker in the NHL like I need the second guy to be on top of that puck your job is to stop the breakout's f one i can't dump it in if i'm at you nigh's i cannot dump it in three feet into the the red line and think i'm going to get it back right you need they're too good the the mobility in the hl right now in the blue line has never been better yeah so where do i think i'm going to dump in and chase my own puck where's that second guy

and and then that's yeah that's retrieving the puck and starting your cycle you know which they don't It's funny you say that because they actually last year by stats created four check chances at a high rate. Like when they would actually get to the puck, they quickly could attack. But they don't get it and start the cycle, get it and wear the other team down, get it and do those sort of like things that, again, where teams down. So late in a playoff series, D are like, God, we've been on our own end chasing guys, this whole series. It's not really what they do. Lorenz, Waugh, Nyes, there are some guys who can do it. but I think Matthews could hang on to it more.

Kneelander can hang on to it more. I know it's a pretty small sample, clearly. It's only four games. But the cycle chance is a thing that and rebound chances, for example, those are things that with the biggest roster in the league, you would expect them to be high in, no? Rebound chance is a great example. Where it's like a guy gets to the front of the net

and he's, you know, like a bowling his way. Like a Dakota Joshua gets the front of the net, bowl in his way to there, Waw, Matthews even, not so much Lawrence, but he can a little bit. I would like to see that. go up significantly, both of those. Because I look at those as things that the Leafs identity

you're supposed to be, you know? Size? Totally. The other thing we cannot forget here is just in terms of the message from the head coach and then ultimately what you do on the ice.

So it looks to me sometimes that they're doing what they're asked to do and that's get pucks to the net. Yeah. Obviously, I don't know whether or not there's a mandate at any angle to get it for just get it into

a goalie. And Valiquette hates it too because you create hot goalie. Get second and third chances offer rebounds, but they look to me like they're trying to they're trying to do what is asked. So is it upon

now Craig Barubby to add some layers and to pick and choose when he wants pucks to the net or when he wants to cycle or when it's support or get it back to the blue line. There has to be some variables involved here. When I was with the Leafs-Marley's organization,

it was kind of the early days of this wave of players that are the team now. And they had Daryl Belfrey, who's a skill coach, and Mike Ellis and Scott Pellar and some of these guys. And their whole thing was trying to change the shape of the defense. And you do that by changing sides, right? The D, then the D who's in front of the net has to rotate to the corner.

The other has to rotate. Winger has to switch from the middle. Everyone switches when you change sides. And so they would do open corner play and try to go back and forth to mess the defense up, right? It takes time and patience and planning. I agree with you that it feels like right now

it's like, shoot the puck. Shoot the puck. You get it? Shoot the puck. Go north. As far as the Leafs Blue Line is concerned, also mobility and being able to pick a puck off the wall, take it to the middle, switch sides right now. I'd like to see more mobility there outside of what we believe is Morgan Riley,

who's supposed to be the most gifted out of all of them. It drops. It drops. Like I see a lot of guys north, south, straight lines. Obviously, defense is paramount for this blue line, sorting things out in your own zone, blocking shots, getting pucks out. That's the strength of this blue line. as far as the offense that you're concerned to cycle with them and, you know, it's not a great swift blue line that can go east-west.

You still want to see them, though, get involved more? I don't know if they can. Well, McCabe can. OEL can. Benwa, Carlo, Tanev, not so much. Benoit's done it a couple times. He's actually likes to. I shouldn't say that.

Benwere can do it. Yeah. But Benw's a little bit like. Lafleur. He goes up the ice a little bit. Like, okay, easy there. If they can, we're not seeing it yet. Well, if they can, we've never seen it from Tanev, Carlo.

Well, Tanev's never doing it, and Carlo's never doing it. Those are two guys that you're just never asking that from. But every D-Corp has that, right? You're just kind of hoping the guys who are mobile can do it. Like Riley and Oliver Beckman-Larsen who has really big offensive pedigree. He was a 60-point guy in Phoenix, and that's a long time ago, but he has that in him. Yeah. And he looked good against the Nashville, you know.

Nobody is. to a good start offensively this year. Should we get a comment on the New York Rangers? Sure. What are we in for here? Craig Barubi on the New York Rangers tonight, especially coming off a very tough homestand. Well, they got a lot of good players.

We all know that. Their goal tendons strong, obviously. They got high skill. They make plays. You know, so that's the biggest. threat that I see with them now with new coach a little bit new style you know new identity how he wants them to play they're going to be I think a more aggressive team in general under sully they're going to they're going to come at you harder but you know at the same time

our game we just got to we got to focus on our game and and take care of business like you know we talk about checking we got to check tonight if you check and do a good good job. We'll get offense, but we've got to make sure we're tight on people and not giving too much time and space out there to Panarans and Zabinajadz and guys like that. So, you know, we've got to get to our game early against these guys and keep it for 60 minutes. Well, if anything's going well for the Rangers, it's Shisterkin, but he can't score. No, he's been unbelievable, too. I mean, he's top few in the league and everything. goal-tending category.

And their blue line in front of him has been much better, too. They're better off rush chances. Gabrikov Fox is a great pair. Really like that pair. After that, OK, Schneider, Vacanan, Borgon's all right. But, like, this is a getable team to me.

If Panarin and Zabanajad have, like, kind of passed their best before date, then they're pretty thin. Like, after that, their best offensive guys are Miller and Lafranier, and then after that. Trochecks out. Yep.

Yeah, L-T-I-R. Brochto-jack. I think he's suffering what I'm suffering. Broken rib? Yeah. A rib. It's got the spare ribs going, I think. Rib-related issues.

That's not good. So he could be out for a little while. So, yeah, we'll see. Interesting thing for tonight. So I put the lineups there. Lorenz, play the clip from the coach. and talk about it after. Where are you at with Stephen Lawrence?

What's where are you at with Stephen Lawrence? Well, he's available. I just didn't want to change the lineup. Simple as a win and what you're liking. Yeah, the last two games have been really good. So, you know, just going to keep the lineup the same. That's all that is. He's an important player.

We all like them. We want them. But, you know, sometimes member of decisions coach has got to make and they're not easy for the guys that aren't playing. Do you have how many games? Can we start playing his clips at 1.3 speed? No. Do you know? I'm surprised he's not in.

Yeah, he's like an automatic. How many games he played last year? 80? 80. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 80 games. I just, it's interesting to me that he's leaving him out

because I thought he, like, I'm, listen, he's not. It leads to a theory of mine. Let me have it. We're witnessing a pump and dump on the Robert. in stock. Hold on for a second. Okay. Uh-oh.

I'm not trading Nick Robertson. Oh my God. What are we doing on the show? Oh, what do you mean? I've been doing this for years. You like what? No way. It comes a classic Kippers egg.

This is the biggest thing. Nick Robertson is doing Leonardo DiCapria. I'm not going. 25-year-olds? I'm not going. I'm not going. I'm not going. I'm not leaving, but yeah, good try.

I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving. Okay. So all of a sudden, there's all this talk about Nick Robertson. I know Darren Drager does a terrific job on TSN, mentioned it the other day on one of their telecast. Think about this for a second, okay?

Why do you want Nick Robertson being traded right now? Why? Me? Yeah. Why? Well, for start, as you have. have good NHL players out of the lineup like Stephen Lawrence and you don't value him in a meaningful way. I don't care about that. Okay. Why are you, okay, what do you, what are you

trading him for? Yeah, yep, yep, I see your point. You, you want to get rid of Nick Romper? And the fourth rounder does what for me, Sammy? You put it in a package in March to get someone else. Can you just stop the insanity right now? Listen, I'm not. I'm not saying, I mean, Sam, come on. I love that I'm having this argument. There is no reason right now you should just give Nick Robertson away. You're not better for what you get back. Your team is not as deep.

You're giving up depth. But you've fourth round pick, which is useless to me. Have you liked him through four games? Listen. That's the question. I don't know where this. It's irrelevant. Okay.

Is it? It's irrelevant. I'll tell you what he does. He makes my team faster. Okay. He makes my team faster. My team gets slower when he leaves for my fourth round pick that could still be in the maternity ward for all I know. He's running into people on purpose.

And I'm not saying it's impactful, but he is running into people. He's still young. He's energetic. He's fast. he can still shoot a puck but I want to really hurry up because I really want the fourth round pick

you're not getting anything back for him I'm not giving up depth I'm sorry Kipp's right on all fronts yeah I just surprised the source that's it and you have stuck with him

because you still see something yes I do and I like Nick I think he's trying his best He was nice to you what's at the first. And he talked to me at an alumni function. He came in and shook my hand up. All right.

Let's be a Nick Robertson show. Listen, if you want to turn around and get another 23, 24-year-old who has some upside and you want to bring them up and you want to get rid of your problem for someone else's problem, I can be that. You tell me, Sam, it's for a fourth round pick and I'm telling you. I want it. Keep it. I don't mind this. I really don't. And I think I've liked his aggressiveness

And I've liked his speed I like everything he said What will we talk about if he actually does get traded? I don't know, he's all we got He honestly has a lifeblood of the show How much conversation How many conversations for a guy that has scored What, a career high of what, 14?

Have we spent talking about this guy? It's amazing. You know that image of like the military guy Over top of the populace? That's him over like Max Domey. He, uh... Oh my God. You know, I am curious though.

Here's what I hope. I hope he's not in tonight because of superstition. Because we won last game, so keep the lineup the same. Which I loathe. Okay, first of all, while we're at it, yarn croak is also un-untouchable for me.

Oh, my God. He's a important guy right now. He is. I got to tell you, I have to watch him through the first four games. He's like, boy, thank God we didn't trade yarn crock. Holy smoke. What's camp up to in the miners?

I don't know. You see if keeps into him now, too. Yeah. Okay. If you were making the decisions and you want Lawrence back in, who would you take out? Yeah, it's probably Robertson or Cowan. But not going to be Cowan, so it's probably Robertson. Yeah.

That's really the only option, unless you think you want more out of Too early to poke Joshua. Yeah. Domi. I like how he's skated. He's shooting the pot. Yeah. I don't want Domi out of the line up.

So, yeah, it's kind of Lorenzo Robertson tonight. So I get why Ruby's just leaving it alone. Okay. Less about superstition and more about who comes out. Callie's been terrific for us. Go in, go in. Back, back. He would have been the guy that you would have said,

okay, why is he not? on waivers, yeah, but he's good. He's good. I mean, this has just been remarkable. Weird show. Really remarkable. I love it. Not even off the rails Friday yet. By the way, Out the Rail Fridays tomorrow. Tomorrow, we're only one hour because of the Jays.

So they start tonight at 833. And then they start tomorrow we think at five. So we're on for only an hour, two to three. But I have been in touch with Mr. Doug McLean. And Mr. Doug McLean is going to join us tomorrow. Yes. That's good. All right.

It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the athlete of odds. And see why it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must have a team plus. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Jays or hockey boys?

Jays. Okay. Another big one for the local baseball team tonight. They're turning to Max Scherzer. Will you go to Game 6 if it's in Toronto if you've had success as a basement viewer? I'm I've The cold dark basement games are a game to game basis And we will review with the board

And we'll get back to it But I don't think I'll go to game six or seven no I just I you're O for two I'm not allowing you to go I'm two and two I saw them win both Yeah so I'm two and one actually What have you done for me late? Fair enough fair enough

So the Toronto Blue Jays go in tonight As a slight dog Plus 105 Against the Seattle Mariners Minus 125 That's 105, eh? Yeah, I mean, they got a chance. You're telling you there's a chance.

Listen, I don't want to offend any of you guys who are older, but they got kind of an old guy on the mountain. I don't know if you heard or not. Do you know it is his 500th career start tonight? Yeah. Number clean 500. Is that not cool? And I think I love the way that Vladimir Guerrero,

Jr. swung the bat last night. I think I really... Use the baseball. Four hits of over 100 miles. now we're off the bat just out of control i'm taking a homer again i feel like he just figured something out last night he's locked in he's seeing it well so give me a homer tonight for vladimir garrero junior at plus 390 and what else are you going to say something there who's this guy on the other uh bump uh yeah he's he's good and one other one for you quickly give me a ernie clement

knock at minus 180 tonight there you loving ernie Ernie is creeping dangerously close to Jersey territory for your boy. Love Ernie Clement. Big Clement guy. Yeah. Anyways. But he is like the ultimate ball player. Grindr.

Doesn't matter where you hit him in the lineup. Doesn't matter where you play him on the field. He's going to give you positive contributions. Once again, asking for another first pitch fast. He loves the heater. That was game time presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds. And see why it's ever ordinary at Bet365.

Mr. 19 plus on Terra only. Please play responsibly. How do you guys feel about Scherzer tonight? Kip? He's got to have one good one. Yeah. Borny? I think this is not the game where it's like, oh, he doesn't throw his heart or whatever.

This is a game where a wily veteran just grinds and battles. He's going to dig down deep here. I think baseball is the most unpredictable sport in the world. And I think a lot of people would probably be pretty worried about this start. But he's got a lot of pride. He's got a lot of pedigms. He's as competitive, a human. Just give me one time through, looking good.

Give me three innings and then bring somebody else in. Just look good out there for us. I think they hit three balls over 100 miles per hour anywhere. And it's time to be like, who's that? Who's up? All right. Dave Maloney after the break. All right, you heard the producer.

When we returned, Dave Maloney, MSG Network, teeing up the Rangers and the Toronto Maple Leafs, much like Nick Robertson, telling the Toronto Maple Leafs. Real Kippermborn Aren't leaving We're not leaving Back after these words

Hey it's Ben Ennis And I'm Brent Cunning We got you covered on all things Leafs, Rafters and Blue Jays Every weekday morning, 6 to 9 It's the fan morning show Sportsnet 590 The Fan And wherever you get your podcast

As a reminder, this hour of Real Kippur and Bourne brought to by Bet365. Nick Kippreos, Sammy McKee, Justin Bourne. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Dave Maloney. It's going to explain to us how you can start three games at home and not score one goal. Hey, before we get to Dave, who I think we don't have yet, we talked about Schaefer, Matthew Schaefer, in the last hour. He has a point in each of his first three games. I just want to shout out the longest point streak to start an Islander's career, Bob Born

How many? Six games First six games He had a point Nice And I had a stack I come across my desk From DA

And I felt like giving him A shout out for that That is really cool I'm here to help Anyway back to the Rangers Who can't score Yeah I mean you know who I like

On that team Cooley You like Cooley Love Cooley Yeah I thought you would Good thing they At least took Copee Himala

One spot ahead of Is that right Or one of the Topeys Oronies or one of them They didn't Why did you say that? Yeah Oh, big Ontario, big Ontario kid who hits everybody.

He wouldn't have been a pocket. Late first round. Second, I think. Oh, second. Yeah, I think they took Topi Nima, but one spot ahead of them. All right, well, on that note. On that note, let's go to MSG's number one analyst when Steve Aliquette's not on the show. No, I'm just kidding.

Dave, how are you, buddy? Oh, I'm really good now after that reason. Hey, Valley told me to say that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's all right. They have the goalies. I can't believe you're even listening to that guy. They're a goalie for God's good point.

Very good point. All right. So I kind of phrased it to these guys, but I'll phrase it to you. How does a team start three games at home and not score one goal? Well, you get chasturken by the opposition's goaltenders. That's what happens. Wow. I mean, I mean, Linguin was brilliant.

He was absolutely brilliant. And Skinner was brilliant. And this is the thing, guys. I know it makes for a story and makes for conversation. And I don't know whether it matters that it's the rangers at Madison Square Garden. But realistically, the rangers are heading in the right direction. Because if you go back a year ago, I think they were 12 and 4, something out of the gates. And Shasturkin and Quick had 980, say, percentages, right?

This team is doing things the right way to have a sustainable game moving forward. So while it makes a bit of a story moving, you know, looking back, no goals in three games at home, there's another team that comes into the factor and it had nothing to do with the way this team is playing. So, Dave, is there any thought on Panarin and Zabanajad and where they're at in their careers? Did they look like they're going to still be pretty dangerous offensive producers? It's funny you should ask about Zavannajad. Mike Sullivan told us this morning that he took Mika side yesterday at practice. that says, we love the way you're playing. Oh, wow.

And the thing with Mika, he will get, you know, the offensive players, which, I know for me personally, and I know about you, Kipper, but when it comes to offense, I'm not sure they were looking for offense. But in the meantime, what the Rangers always will be for Mika will be that, you know, he's not producing. That is not the case. He is buying into a different style of play that Mike Solomon's staff are simply demanding. And that's to be gritty.

That's to pay through the things that don't come naturally to you. And he might be example one. Now, Panarin missed camp. I'm not sure that's the reason for his struggles without a goal. I'm not sure that the league isn't catching up to him a little bit here early. But there's no question. They are two guys when the obvious thing you look to is their offense. They haven't scored yet, but the band-a-ed-ed has been really, really good.

And you can see that Coach Sullivan's squeezing a lot out of four lines because I'm seeing the scoring race with the New York Rangers and I've seen a guy like Sam Carrick up there. He's squeezing a lot out of the bottom six. Well, I think you're right. He is squeezing a lot of the bottom six because the top six haven't yet met up to what they need to meet up to. I mean, the last two games, you know, they scored 10 goals in the road in Buffalo and in Pittsburgh.

And the last two games, I'll tell you, Zaventan and Miller had four point-blank opportunities that were absolutely robbed. So it's going to come. It's going to come there because it sure makes you a great story when your bottom six is scoring. There's no question. But it makes a good story for them. The team needs more of their top six. but I'll tell you, Sam Carrick, last year observing Carrick played dollar for dollar,

he was probably the best valued ranger in the club. Now, the ranger's year was not very good. But he's come in here, and he is the absolute anchor to the two condors he's got on the wing who are playing very well in Edstrom and Rampi. Yeah, he's a valuable depth guys for sure to have. I wanted to key in on ranger's culture this year, because in the past, it seemed like they're trying to move away, right?

Truba was on his way out. J.T. Miller becomes the captain. Where are things there? Is there any sort of vibe that this is a new attitude ranger team? There's no question this is a new attitude. And there's no question that the addition of J.T. Miller, he's the Batman to Vinay T. Rochex Robin. And when the team starts to play collectively,

the way those two guys play, as Mike Sullivan told the local media when asked about, you know, the Four Nations experience and explaining the intangibles that J.T. Miller brings, they have been intangibles that this franchise might not have had. And it's probably too big in comparison, but you played with them, Kipper, in Mark Messier. You know, what will a guy do? What will a world-class player do to compete, to compete? And that to me, now, Jacob Trudeithers, and it's not a disability.

disparaging comment on the former captains or whatever. I happen to believe those guys don't come along often. And if everyone was Mark Messier, then every leader would be Mark Messier and play that way. They don't. Miller is in that bracket. And so there's no question that, like I say, if the game that they're playing now,

and who knows, every night's a different night, right? That's why you play them. But they're starting to sow the signs of playing the game. Now, Florida sets the template, right? They win back to back, playing the way they're playing. Everybody wants to play that way. You've got to have your top guys to have some sense of playing that way to be successful. You're listening to Dave Maloney from MSG Network as we get set for the Toronto Maple Leafs and the New York Rangers.

Dave, Batman and Robin are kind of hurting a little bit here. Trocheck out and, you know, J.T. Miller, safe to say he is playing hurt and, you know, I mean, not producing, obviously, like many of the New York Rangers, but, like, where is he on that front for you? Well, I mean, he's, he had it, as did the team, had a terrible opening night for whatever reason. But he's been, he's been what they need him to be. He just, as I said, he is going to score.

Mika is going to score. And if they continue to play, the way they played for four games, there'll be no problem. We'll be sitting here a week from now. Remember that conversation we had? So I have no problem with J.T. Miller's game, none whatsoever. How about another new addition in Gavikov? What have you seen from him so far?

Is he helping Fox out? He is helping a team that needed to be quieter in their own end, be quieter in their own end and stronger in their own end. And as far as Adam Fox and he paired up, you know, the defensive position, development of chemistry is important because there's just two of you. right a little different than the three up front and the goaltenders on his own but there that is an evolving situation with the chemistry and adam fox played forever with ryan linderin they were

each other's first out last out would get the good position to be supportive so that's going to take time but there's no doubt that gabbarkov has just kind of helped just be a little bit stronger and a little bit calmer in the rangers' end of the ice, which has been an end of the ice that, but for the goaltending, has needed some work. They have been able to control the rush game, which they weren't very good at last year.

Safe to say, Dave? Absolutely. Absolutely. Every coach has their style. Two years ago, Peter Laviotte comes in and the Rangers, I think, lost one in the first can or something like that. So, you know, new coach, new look, runs its, course. What I've really been impressed

with Mike has been his command or demand that the top players do the things that don't come instinctively or naturally to them to pull everybody else along. Everybody would like

to play in a beer league, right? Where there's no check and you don't have to come back or whatever. But the good teams pay attention and do the right things And a lot of times, those aren't the things that guys instinctively want to do. And I think if a coach, I've always thought that a coach's impact is most highly seen how well does a team defend. And what prices are they paying to win?

And the early signs for me are just that. And you see it, there's less there's less craziness in the defensive zone. there's less there's not that kind of come back in the neutral zone and let people come after there's an attack with support so it's been a refreshing a refreshing look because it's unfair to say the change is what it is other than a change but it is a refreshing look so when you zoom out on all this stuff and you look at that metro division where do you see the rangers stacking up last year was a tough year but it feels like there's more here to like this season than the potential to get back in a playoff race yeah Honestly, fellas, I thought coming in there were a legitimate playoff contender, right? And I don't think that's unfair. I don't want to get ahead of the story because, like, you can go down every team in the metro and go, you know, I really like Carolina, which a lot of people do. Will Washington be as good as the career year was last year for a lot of those guys? They're still pretty good.

Who are the devils? you know and then you kind of get into the areas of the division and depending where you are where are the question marks i think the rangers are probably still one top four defensemen away from a step up it can can connor sherry be that top six guy that gives them offense that they need from the top six so there are you know there are questions but i do i honestly believe coming in with Shasturkin, Fox, J.T. Miller, Sabanajad, and improving Cooley, and improving Schneider. I think you could say they're a legitimate playoff contender.

And that's all you've got to do, right? All you got to do is get in. Dave, one name you didn't mention is Panarin. I don't think we'll see the 120 points that we saw a few seasons ago out of him. But what is he capable of still doing? And there's that thing hanging over his head that his contract's down. that his contract's done at the end of the year and he wants another big one I assume

yeah it sounds like he wants a big one and to a certain degree would you agree on past performance yeah it would but he still has to be he just hasn't been quite what he's been now I'm not sure I would be at liberty to say I know how banged up he was in training camp

never played a game now you're five games into the season and what's noticeable to me is the the lead seems to be on to him a little bit more just seems to be on his game you know a lot of the game and i go back to florida because why not a lot of the game is north south right it's north south it's hard it's fast is that panarin's game well time will tell they need panarin to produce can he get to 120 i don't know but they They need more out of them than we've seen so far. We're looking forward to the game tonight, Dave, and always a pleasure catching up with you.

And we'll catch up to you again real soon down the road. Thanks for doing this. Yeah, no problem. And really, anytime you've got to talk to Valley, if you need to kind of walk through, just give an old defenseman a call. Will you please? The old steady D-man, high and hard off the glass.

Thanks, Dave. Appreciate it. See you guys. That is Dave. Moni, MSG Network, real good one in our sport. Yeah, it's interesting. It sounds higher on them than, I don't want to say than I would have anticipated it.

Last year, we had him on. Beat him up. He was off of them. Like he, and like, listen, he worked, yeah, 100%. He's a, works for MSG, but like, he's always been very forthcoming with him, with us in terms of his analysis of the team. Yeah.

And for him to say that, and he watches closer than anybody, do you like they're heading in the right direction, makes me you a slightly a little more worried about tonight than I would have been going into it, but we'll see. Panarin's now 33 years old. Yeah. I don't know what's out there for him.

Like last year, I think he had 89 points, yeah? 89. It's still a good number. If he can get to 80, I don't know what kind of term he can get, but there'll be teams willing to overspend for that type of scoring, which is, it's hard to find.

It's funny because, like, Panarino is always like, there are things you don't love about his game, but it doesn't matter because he gets points, right? So you can put up with some defensive gas or he's not that strong or whatever, as long as you score a bunch of points. When the points start going down, you know, it's like, ah, how much do you want to commit?

But you're right, there's a team will go, if he can get us 80 points, we'll give him, what, $6 million? I don't know. In his years with the Rangers, starting in 2019, 95 points, 58 in the short in season, 96, 92, 120, 89. It's clear.

His interpretation of what kind of player he is and the Rangers is vastly different. And I don't know what that means. Does he play with a chip on his shoulder the rest of the year? Does he

motivated? Does he feel like he's got one foot out the door already? Yeah. I'm interested in watching him tonight. And watching for the skill, no question, the game, but also the body language. So they traded Truba, they traded Chris Kreider or just moved on from?

No, they traded Chris Kreider. So like are you saying that like this could be the just moving on from that era of the range? I would imagine, yes. And they're careful with their money. Chris Kreider. Yeah. It's hot. I may have probably kept him.

He's a good player. He gets 30 and he's a great train. Can I say something, too? Please. The Leaf should have trade. The Leaf should have gotten Chris Kreider. Chris Kreider would have been great with John Tavares. I mean, that doesn't help the pace of your team.

Excuse me? Yeah, I don't know. The pace. He's one of the fastest guys. He was. No, still is. I don't know. No, he can still skate.

He can still motor. He's a big man, too. I just feel like Crider would be yet another big, non-tuff guy. You know, like another offensive first. I hear so many amazing things about him in Anaheim. Yeah. They love him. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And he was a big part of the Rangers for a lot of years. But I still think he has wheels and he still has hands. He's got three goals already? Yeah. yeah possibly more than Leo Carlson bounced one off him the other night

in front of the net is that right yeah so just Will Cooley was one pick after Roney here Oh no Yeah First of all the Rangers They got rid of Liam Anderson

To get that pick It wasn't it wasn't The Rangers Traded to get that They're like oh the Leafs didn't take them In that 2020 draft, and, you know, horrible situation with Amarov in the first round, right? Where a young kid passed away, it's awful. Leifes have zero games played from, I think, 12 or sorry.

From 20 what? From 2020 entry draft. Not one game played from any player in that draft. Rone here in Vinen, Tobin Neimala, the goalie, Akhtimov, Villeneuve. Stop, I'm getting hives. Okay. He'll play a game. You would have like to have one, maybe, contribute a game.

Shisterkin versus Stolars. Does that mean 3-2? The two best goal is in the league? 3-2? 2-1? 4-3. Lower score. I think snooze fast that you're trying to pay attention to tonight is across from Jays.

That's what I predict. 3-1 final? I think three-one final Leafs. For whom? And I think the Js, I think they get it done again tonight. I do. That would make for a very fun off-the-rail. a hour, but it ever.

Go, what time tomorrow? Tornadoes tonight. Two to three. Two to three. We'll hunt down Doug McLean. Have a great night, everybody. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.