Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Flipping a Switch in November

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 5-3 win over the Utah Mammoth on Wednesday night, their third straight win. They discuss Craig Berube's system, the stars rounding into form, Matias Maccelli's play after being scratched, Dakota Joshua getting more comfortable, and whether Max Domi will enter the press-box rotation. Then, they get into Anthony Stolarz's heavy workload and project when Joseph Woll will draw back in. Later, Sportsnet Leafs reporter Luke Fox (32:43) weighs in on Auston Matthews' role in the team's recent streak, John Tavares pushing for a spot on Team Canada, Matthews' leadership, Matthew Knies' playmaking, and who will be the odd man out from the Leafs' bottom six.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

We are live and in color. It's the real Kipper and Born show. Leaf Edition hour. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Bringing the energy today. Jake the snake shows. Derek Brandeo

We're live on SportsSet 360 SportsSet 360 I said that already Sportset 500 fans Toronto Find the people What else you got for us SportsSept Plus

streaming on YouTube after on Spotify Apple podcast Like people are listening They know where to find it if they're currently hearing our voice I know But there's always new

Yeah And if they happen to be listening on YouTube They're like oh I could get it on Spotify Oh they're listening on on Spotify. They're like, oh, I can watch it on YouTube or sports hit plus. The reason why I- Get more credit than that. The reason why I

butchered the opening is because I'm just so excited that this is the last day of the week for us because we're playing hockey tomorrow. Hockey, yeah. I've never seen you guys on the ice before. I've golfed a few times with you. Yeah, it's very funny because I'm going to go home

tonight after my son's game, pull this equipment out of the shed, and the next I'll unzip it for the first time in the room with you guys. So let's see. And our loyal, trusted listeners are coming through for us. We still have a little bit of time here between now and tomorrow to raise a little bit more money. But we've, we're moving up the rankings here. We've got listeners out there.

We've got fans that are making some really nice, generous donations. Yeah, yesterday we were up to 13,000. And I believe we're up to 21? 21 today. Can we get to 25? Probably. I mean, if you wanted to do your best auctioneer move here, if you got that in you. I did skate today, and I hadn't skated since until Jay's prey were playing, really,

like, because we were starting at two. So I could never make my morning skate and a hockey. I'm sorry, the Jays played multiple Monday nights in a row. So I just couldn't play hockey. Yeah. And boy, like, you haven't played hockey in a long time. Kippur, you haven't played hockey in a long time. I played this morning.

Oh, you did? I did. And I almost had a gripper in the first four shifts. so I really am really happy I got that in before I play tomorrow with you guys I don't feel a couple of pockets I'm okay yeah but I'm sore I'm a little sore really it's not I'm not in pain and I'm not really restricted but I can feel them yeah and I don't know I may feel them for a very long time get it in deep I'll get after yeah I did I got one early though the first two minutes of our scrimmage I got one early

And it really settled me in. There was a little talk about the tourney in that. Oh, yeah. Because were you playing a Big E? Yeah. Big E's got his team together. Yeah. Johnny.

I don't want to play against those guys. Did Johnny, do you remember along here? Johnny last year? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's flying. Yeah, he's a really good hockey player. Absolutely flying out there. I'm just hoping our first.

Just giving the trophy now. I hope our first game is just a tomato can so that I can, you know, feel the pocket. They're really cold dusters, I think. Yeah. Well, we're excited for it. In the meantime, this is our leaf, our edition of our program and the Leafs are making it a little

easier for us. Are they not with their third consecutive win? You know, they saved all their struggles for the Jay's run behind the curtain behind the veil and now that it's been revealed, okay, here are the Leafs? They're winning games. I will say watching that game

it was the first time this season that in the third, going into the third period as it started, I was like, they're going to win this game. Like they just... And it was tied. Yeah, it was two-two and I was like, they're the better team utahs on back to back they look good they'll win this game and i haven't felt that this year yet so that was cool yeah i think is it fair to say that you saw the vision last night of what like what true living probably thought this might look like up until this point

in terms of yeah all forward lines kind of contributing and a little bit of depth here and there i don't know it just it looked like that's kind of what they pictured well they had a third line that maybe not on the back end points right mitchellie scores he gets an assist i thought i thought Josh was really good. The other one thing that, again, stands out more than anything is, and maybe it's because Craig Brube's system is as simple as it is,

or we're making it out to be as a north, north-south. But like, if you don't work hard at it, you look really bad. I like that assessment. If you're going to play a simple style that's walls, deep,

forecheck, and you don't work, it doesn't work. And if you want to play this east, or this east, West regroup and the complexities of that sort of style then there's a chance

that you could mess up and you can't really see whether you're working hard or not but it with Burubis it is it's that simple for me and they are working harder for me you know you might have made a really

compelling point here you know I remember we had Laviolet on one time and I asked them do you bring your system to a team when you become the coach or do you look at the roster and then build a system and he was like oh you kind of have to tailor it to the team you may have made a great point here that this system for

these players is maybe not congruent right because we don't think of them as the everyday consistent bringing it hardworking roster but that's what he's asking of them is to be the hard hats consistent guys and and Tavares Matthews

now a knee lander you know especially in Willie too Willie's off to a great start, as we can see as the points continue to accumulate. Second fastest leaf in team history to get the 20 point mark. Following Doug Gilmore in 10 games, he did it in 11. And I think with Willie, especially with Martin or gone, I think he understands now that between him and Austin especially, John, maybe Sammy made the point

that when your salary drops from 11 to 4 it alleviates some of the pressure so he'll trail those guys but there's a tremendous amount of pressure on Austin and Willie now to carry the freight and Willie looks to me like he's understanding the okay I'm going to be watched a lot more now

I can't necessarily go into the same lulls I've experienced in the past. Yeah, there's going to be some games when it doesn't look very pretty and I don't produce, but I can't have as many as I've had in the past. I believe that to be true that they need him to be more consistent and whatever,

but I'm going to pump the brakes before saying he's done it or going to do it. I hope he does. That's what I've seen though. Yeah, so far. That's what I've seen so far. Yeah. is that I think he understands that this time can be rough on people.

Yeah. And if they're smart, Matthews and Nylander, they'll understand that we just watched the guy leave because, you know, at times it wasn't very comfortable for him. I don't want that to happen to me. I also think that, like, unequivocally, we know whose team it is now. And I think for years, didn't it feel like those four guys kind of fought for the mantle? Like, who's teaming it?

Who's the most important? No, it was always Austin's. He was the face. He was the guy that they put first and foremost. But with Willie and Mitch, there were years where it was like, who's the guy? The early stages in particular where it was like, should this guy get more money or that guy or opportunity or wherever? I think now it's like, okay, it's Austin and Willie. Yeah.

It's Austin and Willie. Everyone else, we hope you play well, but it's not like a contentious. It just is what it is. Yeah, I mean, the point production is there, but I do think that Willie has looked pretty brilliant through the first 11 games that he's played this year. It looks like a pro.

Yeah, I think that there's been a lot of people that have had a lot of Willie conversations in the city for his whole career. And even like the biggest defense. vendors of Willie, I think, would have to be surprised that it's turned into being this good. Wouldn't you think? Yeah. Top five in the league right now, Celebrini McDavid-McKinnon, Shifley, Nealander.

Yeah, he's leading the league in even strength points. It's just, to me, I am surprised that it's gotten to this point with how good he is. The guy I always thought he was a good player, but for him to get where he is now, I think it's, I mean, he's one of the best players, you know, in the league at this point. He really is. He's an elite, a league player. Inside the top 20, probably. Yeah, and I think there is a level of understanding where he is right now

and the eyeballs on him. And, yeah, I think he's responded well so far. So looking at the rest of the squad last night, do you want to get the overview and then you and I can start picking it apart? Yeah, you bet. All right, clip one, please. Oh, the clips are going to be there in one moment. But using this little pause we have here, Machelli.

For station identification? No, it's for idiot identification. We have the clip. What's that? Good solid effort all around. I thought we played a smart game, you know. It's a good team over there. They got a lot of good offense and fast players.

I thought we did a good job keeping them at bay for the most part. Penalikeal was good. And I thought everybody contributed it tonight in their own way. The Pock and OZ time for once, the Leafs well ahead. The Pock-O-Z-possession time, Leaves well ahead. High-danger scoring chances at 5-on-5

or 14 to 6 in the Leafs favor. Yeah. It's weird that still first period, they give up the first goal. Seven time in last eight games. And that to me is a little bit of a concern, but more is that they mustered, I think, three shots on goal in the first 17 minutes.

It's just, it seems strange to me that everything that they've been through already and a team's playing the night before that you can't come out and just fire it up. It is funny, Kip, the shots per game, and this isn't a least thing, the shots per game in the NHL are the lowest. since 2003. Like shots went way up and now the league average is 28 shots per game.

It's not good enough. A couple of years ago it was 31. Well, isn't that Valley's thing though? The guys aren't shooting anymore. They're not going to get a scoring chance. They're more selective. This isn't, like we've seen a lot of boring

bad hockey out of the Leafs this year already, right? But it's not just a leaf thing. I'm looking around the league too, and I see that. I don't, I don't see a ton of excitement around the net and i i don't i don't know i don't why is that why are the game's been opened up they took everything leaves are dead middle of the pack that slowed games down mid hl right now over that's where they over the course of the last 20 years they've made it

they've given you every rule to open up and score more goals and now you're telling me shots on goal or down shots and goal are down top team in the league is colorado they get 34 and second is Columbus at 32-8 and the bottom team, Seattle's getting 24 shots tonight. I mean, their first, Leif's first period last night, not much, not much.

You're right, though, with Utah on a back-to-back and Leif's kind of rolling, it's like, can we just put the pedal down? They ended up five, they ended up with five in the period, but two of them came in the last minute and a half. But did you watch that period being like, boy, the least are, like, I felt.

Right, they had the play. They were cycling the puck, and they were in on the four check, and it felt much. I mean, it just looked better than it's looked. It did, yeah. Which, I mean, but you would still like them to. Yes.

I still would like them to look more convincing, I think, on being a threat early, early, just to set a bit of a tone and a pace. Well, this is the third coach that this era of hockey's been on, and they've always had a trouble starting. So, I mean, Babs is the only thing he said for two years with start on time. Started good tonight. Micelli gets the healthy scratch the other night, gets back in. and Ruby feels pretty good, I think, with his goal and assist.

Yeah, Luke asked him who we're going to have on later, but he asked him about healthy scratching and how effective it can be. And I thought he gave a pretty interesting answer. How about the clip three about scratching Michelli? What's the value of healthy scratching and can it go sideways? Or is it usually a positive? I'd always say it's more positive than anything for the most part. I think, you know, there's players that are scratched

because of decisions that are made by the coach, bodies, different lineups, things like that. Sometimes, like, you know, in Macheli's case, I thought he could give us more, and he did tonight from a scratch. Yeah, so it just depends on the situation. He really said nothing there, other than if you're not good enough, I'm not putting you in.

Yeah. And you responded well because I'm pushing you. Machelli has five points in his last five games. And his ice times are like 1147, 12, 12, 12. That's kind of the pocket they got him in right now. I thought if he gives you 12 like he did last night, take that, right? Like cause him chaos for the defense. Should we hear the?

Not to go full kipper here, but I think it is like a little bit of a cautionary after, you know, it's kind of the perfect storm for him. former team coming off of a scratch against a team that's on a second half of a back to back that's not exactly the most physical It was the perfect storm for him to come in and look good Like it's a nice stepping stone

Hopefully that he can build on it But like I'm not I'm not convinced I'm not convinced that he's like back No to whatever back is for him But it was nice point I think that's a really important question Is what is he He's 24 years old

Is he got another step to take from his best season in the league And if so pretty good Yeah, that's a nice goal. But, yeah, can you become someone you can use in the playoffs? Listen, if... That's a no. If we're completely being truthful here on the Leafs the last few years, falling short

and getting their lunches fed by a team like Florida physically, he's not my top 50 guys I would have gone after. Florida isn't last, so maybe they don't make a new Florida a new Florida team there'll be a new Florida tougher team bigger team stronger team and I think I think it was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to losing Marner who can make a pass and do a skilled thing who can we get somebody to get 50 or 60 points super high skilled and for a fourth round pick that what it cost I think it was third maybe third okay Maybe a third.

And pickings are slim. And I think they just kind of, I don't know what to call it a Hail Mary because the guy did produce 50 points one year in Utah. So, but I think it's a bit of a long shot that this guy was going to come in here and provide instant offense and alleviate some of those lost points.

Yeah, he definitely has the feel of guy who helps you get there rather than guy who's going to help you get through but yeah pass robertson good yeah pass robinson good good night out of him last night that's uh you know you'll take that he gave you what he'd give you um i think a guy that will help you if you have to play florida is joshua and i thought last night was probably his best game i'm starting to notice how big he is yeah which is a great sign he's playing the part of a big guy now Yeah. I mean, that is going to be, I think that's literally part of the reason he was here.

You know, last night he played almost 14 minutes, had an assist plus one, ran into a few people. Vancouver's problem with him was one good game like last night and then three bad ones, invisible, can't notice them. I think if you're paying a guy what you're paying Joshua, which is around, let's make three mill roughly. Three, two, five, maybe. Three, two, five. And he's playing on your third line. And every other night, he can give you. you something you like you're okay with that you know like you're in playoffs and you say hold your

own defensively have the odd game where you give us a couple we're kind of okay with that like i don't on a goalie you know cause some chaos changed the momentum jots of guys you ran his mouth a little bit last night like you know i i don't think he's if he could do it consistently what would you pay him you know he'd probably make he's probably score 25 goals and he'd be tom wilson light but that's not the case so i don't know to be you you got to manage expectations a little bit. Why don't we listen to what Craig Barubi thought there in clip four? Yeah, I mean, I think he's been coming for a while now for me.

Like, I think he's back to playing the way I've seen him play before. You know, he's a heavy guy down low in the offensive zone. And, you know, he hangs on the puck's and he can make plays and he's good around the net. Like, that's where he's going to score his goals. But that's not only his game. I mean, he's physical every night in my opinion. and he's killing penalties and I use that line against teams

depending on lineups and I mean matchups and stuff like that so for me I think him and Wazi been trending in the right direction here for a bit. Wazi Bear Wazi I mean you guess what else the

I mean you can't be like Wauser it's Wazi right it is right I'm just trying to think about what else you would call him all right I don't know I do well it's the hockey nicknamed curse uh

it's not quiz Sammy no was he you know outside of you know the the fourth line last night Domi plays the

the fewest minutes at 1047 and that line's a minus one I don't really have a whole lot bad to say I thought it was encouraging signs Domi played the least amongst

yeah on the team yeah wow I wonder if you got to scratch two guys a night I wonder if that's coming for him uh it wouldn't surprise me at all but

I think Saturday at home against the ruins I think between Joshua and Domi and I don't know Lotton There's a lot of pressure to Chelly Robertson

Not Scratch 3.25 or 3.5 million dollars Like that's a lot of money and They made the commitment to Domi What do they give him? Four years?

Yep. It's a big commitment And $3 million isn't chump change year No So they got to find something for him The role whatever Whatever role they envisioned on him On a four year deal

They can't Can't punt on it And a dozen games But we'll see how it shapes up now Because Latin's back And Lawrence is in and how does it shape moving forward here. And if there's some stability, which they've lacked, completely lacked.

Like I was saying this morning, I was on J.D.'s show. And he was talking about, you know, certain, a couple of guys. And I'm like, it's just not a couple guys. It's like five or six that come to the rink and not knowing whether they're on the first line, the third line, the fourth line, or a healthy. scratch like they're all coming to the rink not knowing but isn't that the idea of internal competition that it's like no hey you work your way up the line if you play good to stay in

yeah you know what you're right it is at training camp not not as the season progresses here maybe one guy two guys but not five or six that you come you want to know what your role is you want to know where your fit is and there has to be a little bit of comfort and knowing who you are and what you bring to the team. But, and always Nick Robertson out of that now? Well, I still don't think they know what a lot of these guys are. I think this is what's happening right now. And I am going to cut Ruby some slack on this because I do, after every game,

I'm like, you know, trying to find a line that works. This guy needs more opportunity. I get that it's hard to, like, please everyone and to build your best lineup every night. So I think it's Cowan too Cowan went from first line The third line fourth line First line Second Power Play

Marley's Which I exclude him Because when you're in your Rookie year You're 20 years old man You're just you're in Fantasy Island Doesn't matter It's all great

It's all gravy I truly get a kick out of the stories Where they're like This kid never had tuna tart tart before You know It's like You know Being with the Marley's myself

And like going out With some of those leaf dinner and the Marley's? Well, like, you go to dinner and it's like, oh, yeah, they're doing the seafood tower for the staff tonight or something like that. Because, you know, it's like the Leafs swiping it. It's like they live a different lifestyle. I think when you're new and you've been, like, it's cool to have guys like Cowan that are still excited about that stuff.

Cowan's been crushing the Kelsey's in London, Ontario. You're all over Kelsey's, right? I do think, though, like, at the start of the camp, we made, we joked about it that Lotton got hurt and like the whole team just like exploded they're like we don't know where anybody plays that was a wild like who knew Lotton was the lynch

pinned to the structure of the roster but having said that having them back in there it felt like everything kind of fell into place a little bit the strangers went still for me is that he gets hurt and it changed all the lines

yeah no I know that's what I mean it just completely altered everything We actually have Burubi on getting them back in. Do we get... Plotin and Lorenz? Flip six, please. Energy. I thought him and Lorenz provided a lot of real good energy for us.

And Max, that line. I thought skated hard, was effective, hounded. You know, I really liked them tonight. And I liked their energy on the bench, too. A lot of chatter and talk. And so it was great having both those guys back tonight. They got the talk again. The other talk.

Lawton. He's the vibes guy. Chat. Team vibes. He hosts the team podcast. But go ahead. I just thought he was like noticeable and he's an NHLer and like he just is a good fourth liner.

They traded too much for him and you're always going to be like they traded a first round pick for him and Grubankin for this guy and you're probably going to measure what he gives you against that. But he's an NHL for a third line guy that can create some energy. He's serviceable. And I like, I don't know who it was who was digging at. stole ours and he just punched him in the head i'm like yeah i got to say you know everyone's like it's a dumb penalty it's kind of nice to see i loved it i loved every moment of it

and they killed it off but it's like nobody's done that no shot allowed on that pk is fine november fifth love exactly how bad punch him in the head let people know you get punched for touching the goalie that's a rule not in the leafs early defensively still some work to do for you defensively yeah you guys go ahead talk to each other about carlo go ahead Starlo, Stolars. By the way, if he ever has a good name, I'm calling him Starlo from forever. I'm a little tired. Super Starlo.

Stolars, you're... Stolars, that was an absolutely unacceptable second goal against. Terrible goal. An absolute muffin. He knew it. I don't know that it led in one of those last year, and it was concerned. Remind me a toss goal. There's a few, there's been a few goals where it's like, we didn't really see a lot of those

last year. Yeah. Is it, he's played a lot of hockey more than he's ever played before. To me, he looks a little tired. He's played a lot of hockey. Wow, he's never played this much before. He's 14 games, he's played 11 of them. It's November, like, we're a month into the year.

He's played half a season in his head. If he played this pace for the rest of the year, he'd play 66 games or something. It's not sustainable. How many goals have played more than that? They need Joseph Wall. Like, they got to hurry. Joseph. Nashville runs Saros through the mill.

So he is, yeah, so their wolf has 13 starts. Wedgwood in Colorado was 12, Saros 12, Binnington 11, and Anthony Stoller is 11. Yeah. So he's right there. I don't think that's what they had drawn up. No, they didn't have it drawn up. I can tell you that. But they're drawing it now.

Yeah, it's in Sharpie. I wonder if they'll push Joseph. Push. I'm going to guess no. I'm going to guess, yes. Why isn't it pushing? He's back. He's not away anymore.

We don't know. He's on the ice practicing. Like, I'm sorry, I don't want to be insensitive, but like you are making $3.5 million. You're with the team. Go and get some games to Marley's play. They're going to run stores into the ground. Yeah, I'm with him.

You've said zero things wrong there. Play, hockey. It's hockey time now. Time to do that hockey, Joseph. Me telling my kids about bedtime. It's the time of the bed. It's time to go. I do believe that

even stole ours. Like it's 2-2. It might have been a different game. You know, he's still making big saves at the right time. But then there's these ones where you go, what is going on here? Because we just didn't see a whole heck of that all last year.

Like, you had to work hard to get one past him last year. Yeah. You know, there's been a lot of play. I thought in the early going when the Leafs were a true tire fire. I thought his play was better than his numbers. But yeah, now we're a few games in a row where they're overcoming something that he did.

So I wouldn't mind him getting to have a little bit of a rest. If you look at last season, goalie wins by month, it went Stolars in October, led the Leafs, and then it was like, Wohl, Wohl, Stolars, Wohl, Stolars. Like it was, you know, Joseph Wohl carried the bulk of the mail through the regular season. Can we do the looking at the schedule game for the Toronto Maple? lose here. So they play a back-to-back this weekend. You guys already said no chance that he's going to play on Sunday night

against Carolina, which is probably correct. But then they have, they go to Boston Tuesday, Kings at home on Thursday, and then home or away Blackhawks next Saturday. Will Joseph Wall participate in any of those games? Boy, that home or away at Chicago would be interesting. Saturday night.

That's two weeks away, two and change. No, no, that's a week away. Oh, sorry, a week, a week. Yeah, I know. He'll be in by next week. In the Leafs lineup? Yeah. That's my guess.

Like, what's the Marley schedule this weekend? I play at home? Like, right now, he should be looking at a Marley game in the next few days. A few days. And then get him up here with Sammy's absolutely right on the money on, okay, listen, we don't want to be insensitive here. And we hope everything that went on is behind you now.

Yeah. but tough get in that tough pocket for old wool to get in right now down to hershey at wilksbury at hersey at hershey at grand rapids at grand rapids at bingo that takes you till november 19th there in binghamton so yeah it's not going to be a home game for him at the coca cola coliseum he's going to have to hop on a bus to the boys and drive five six hours but i mean yeah some of those teams like really good too in the american hockey league that will Hershey and Wilkesbury are pretty typically awesome. I think one of the top teams.

I actually, I mean, I don't know this year. That's Pittsburgh, isn't it? Yeah, it is. So what are the games we look at? Oh, yeah, I'm looking at this weekend. Play this weekend. Play fly and go play the phantoms. Wilkesbury is in first at 8, 2 and 1.

Hershey's just okay, 5'3 and 1. All right. Hershey's a poke. Yeah, what's that mean? Far away? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's planes. Flying in?

Yeah, they'll fly. concerns with carlo no i i just think yeah i have concerns every night with carlo but like i can't talk about it every single day like you're gonna talk to your blue in the face i hated that first goal from both of those guys i just it was like a bad kind of a grenade by carlo and then i don't know where morgan riley is going it's just i guess you just have to live with these guys well i guess it's like i feel like the leaves need to have faith in each other a bit more like for riley why you're chasing behind the net like you know carlo's on him i know mike babcock used to want them to do that and that was the thing they would do but you have to know he wants to confront them behind

the net yeah like the he called it steel balls and there's both sides of the net if guys coming out even if you're being chased someone cut them off and you get back to the front but no communication between him and carlo on that no shoulder check from riley that he's got someone behind him yeah it's just i am i think we talked a lot about the leaves trading for a top six guy and how the team needs a top six guy like depending on tannes here you know and i know simo and benwa was sick yesterday but like i just expected carlo to be more physical well yeah but i think every bruin's fans kind of been like yeah see i think they kind of knew i i agree but like i'm okay with the d man who checks with his stick chris tannov does

chris tannov throws eight hits a season and people call him the best defensive player but he's also he he takes a lot of abuse though he does yeah yeah absolutely that's because he's got the courage to get to Puck's first. People want to hunt down Carlo now too. Well, this is the thing. If he's going to get to puck's first and he's going to check with the stick, I'm okay with him not being physical. If he's not doing those things, which he isn't, then I'm definitely not okay with him

not being physical either. If you're going to get their second, hit. Yeah. We should go. Okay. Boy, Luke Fox, who covers the Leafs for us on Sportsnet.com. Said to join us also at the top of the hour, Adam Oates. plenty to get into

around the national hockey league, including OV's 900th goal and the puck at Jordan Bennington's a creep. Oh, we're going to have some fun with that conversation.

More when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things Leafs, Rafters, and Blue Jays every weekday morning, 6 to 9. It's the fan morning show sports net 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcast welcome back to the show it's the leaf edition hour on the real kipper and born show

nicky else just and born sammy mckee and let's welcome in luke fox nchall writer sportsnet dot cae luke how are you man I'm doing well. How are you guys? We're good. I had said before this, before they came home Saturday, I guess, from Philadelphia, that the next four games were going to be important for them. And I said, I thought three out of four would be pretty darn good for them. They got a chance Saturday night to go four for four. What's the biggest difference you've seen since that, that's,

start, that 500 start, and what we've seen this past week? I'd say the biggest difference probably is Austin Matthews, who seemed to wake up in the third period of the Pittsburgh game. I don't think it's any coincidence that Matthews three-game goal streak coincides with the Leaf's first three-game win streak. I think they're going to go as far as he goes. And I really thought that right coming into this season, their first without Mitch Marner that as the captain and as the guy who's so pivotal, not just the 200-foot game, but a guy who needed a bounce back in terms of production and had another step to go, I believe, in terms of leadership, that they were going to go as far as he goes.

And I really felt in that third period against Pittsburgh, yeah, he scored the goal to get him going, but it was more so how active he was on the penalty kill, blocking shots, getting in his stick on lanes, frankly, trying harder than he did in the first two periods. And the other guys seem to pick up and follow his lead. Really interesting teams so far through 14 games. Their power play absolutely stinks. Their defense is suspect. And yet their penalty kills pretty good.

And their even strength offense is off the charts. They're dressing the three best even strength point getters in Nye's, Nealander, and Tavar. Matthews isn't part of that group and Marner's gone. So it's a really funny team to cover on a day-to-day basis because the inconsistencies are wild right now. Yeah, no kidding. It's still like there's things that can be improved upon greatly and you think should be improved upon greatly.

And there's still, you know, with a couple of wins, things look a little brighter than they did not that long ago. You know, something we don't often do on this show is just like, look at a guy and give him his flowers. And John DeVarra scores his 500. 100th goal. You know, he comes, gets his stick last night before the game. Then he scores the goal to go up 3-2, a massive goal for them that they need. He, you know, Lawton called him one of the funniest guys on the team. There's just a positive. I know. There's a positivity around

him this season. Is that, am I reading too much into that? Do you feel that? Are you seeing it? Oh, yeah. No, things are lighter. Maybe it's, you know, not being viewed through the prism of, Hey, you're great, but you're not $11 million great. Or maybe it's, you know, yeah, your leadership is great, but not Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs type leadership. So I think there's a bit of a lesser burden on Tavares. And then also I think fans are coming around to just appreciate what this guy does. The consistency is phenomenal.

And I think he's gone from a guy where you have debates about, is this guy going to be in the Hall of Fame to okay well now he's one of just four guys just put up 500 points for two teams he's one of 49 guys in the history of league to score 500 goals

he's got a few more years on his contract he's not showing signs of slowing down by the time all is said and done I think his numbers will make him undeniable for the Hall of Fame and you know teammates absolutely love him you know we're talking to Matias

Michelli last night and he's like I'm learning so much from him and and that seems to be a refrain that we hear from a lot of guys that just joined the team they say we've never seen a guy who's this professional who's this dedicated who we can learn so much from and so yeah we're recognizing a body of work but I think what's more interesting is the fact that deep down John Tavares wants to be on team Canada in two and a half three months here like he's not thinking oh this is a nice little capper to my career that he still has that desire now i i hear you nick like he's got some guys to jump listen whatever in his mind in his mind yes whatever whatever is is leading up to this

really great start um let him let him keep going with it obviously foot speed is going to be the biggest issue for him not whether or not he's still got a nice touch around the net um and that's a different conversation maybe on another day but i just want to just take this a little further and you know you mentioned something interesting whether or not truly he feels lighter this year because of the money or or the captaincy but just to go back to the captaincy for one second i want to get your thoughts luke and maybe even the boys here and the whole idea over the captaincy and we could sit there and say okay was john a great captain did he need to be louder? Did he need to be tougher? Did he need to be in your face kind of guy? But there's no

question that he had certain elements of being a leader here. My question to you, Luke, is it was really tailored to bring more out of Austin, not just a 50 or 60 goal score, but just take his leadership and his true franchise face to another level. And it hasn't happened. And we're still waiting and will it happen or is this just it? And if that's the case, should they have just left the sea on him all along? Perhaps. Perhaps.

It's an interesting point. But I do feel like at the time Brad Tray Living felt like it was the right move for the team. At the time, I don't know if he wasn't certain that John. John would necessarily come back, probably because he knew how far he was going to go financially to keep John and wasn't – it was – there was no guarantee that Tavares would take such a pay cut in order to stick around. So I think there was an element of this guy might be transitioning off the team anyway, and just the fact that it was a challenge, I think, in some way to Matthews.

Now, has he met that, I think it was difficult for him to meet it last year. I think he had a lot in his mind. You know, he seldom lets us really into what he's thinking. But there was the pressure of another captaincy, that of Team USA that he was wearing, and then, you know, the complications with his back and lack of production and everything. And it hurt him.

So can he get there? I think that's a great question that we won't know the answer to until there's more time. I think there's a positive sign that the Maple Leaf's best 60 minutes has coincided with Matthew 60 minutes. He himself says he's a lead by example type of guy and the effort

he's shown the last four periods, he's got to maintain that for longer. It can't be blips. It has to be more consistent. And if he does that, I think that's the way he's going to lead. And he has other voices in the room. McCabe is a vocal guy. Tann of when he's healthy is. John

still is. So there's other guys. It doesn't have to all fall on him to be the raw, raw guy. Yeah, yeah. And I'll I just kind of disagree with the premise that the reason they gave it to him was to get more out of Matthews. I don't think that's... Why did they give it to him? Because he's the face of the franchise. He's the guy.

It's the same difference. Yeah. To me, it's just like when they lose, if he was wearing no letter, we'd all be like, it's you. And when they win, we'd all be like, it's you. He hasn't had too many fingers pointed at him over the years. Ah, come on. You and I were not even close.

We hung out one night this summer. How many people were pointing fingers at him? Recently, but not over his career. Yeah. Fair enough. If we're good on Matthews, I'll turn the page to a guy playing beside him. Matthew Nyes, first year of a pretty good-sized deal. Sammy was mentioned earlier, you know, a top guy in terms of even strength points per game.

Now, I'm going to go ahead and be counters, swim against the current a little bit. I only think he's been okay. I don't know what I expected from him, you know, defensively at times here and there. I want him to be more physical. I know that he can do all these things offensively, and his numbers are. really, really good. I just really think this guy could be great. I think he's got another gear yet, Luke.

Yeah, no, I don't think he's reached his peak, but I think he has been one of the more consistent forwards they've had, for sure. And I had an interesting conversation with them during the Philly trip because his assists are off the chart, and I feel like

when we have the Matthew and I's conversation, it's about big body, goes to the net, good hands. You know, he studied Zach Hyman for rebounds and tip type goals you know and even like there's like an edge to him you know that we saw with him getting in a fight

you know getting in guys' faces and laughing them off that and even some of the comments he makes it in the media there's like a leadership element but one of the last things we talk about him is his playmaking you look up and he has 13 assists in 14 games and I said like are you kind of surprised

like you're more than double your pace for assists and he said I'm not surprised. He's like, I know I can be a playmaker and I can make those type of plays. And Brube was kind of saying his assists aren't like, you know, the Martyr Machelli type of assists where it's this

beautiful sauce pass. He's like, he gets the working man's assist because he goes to the corners, he goes to the net, gets a stick on a puck and it goes to someone and he puts it in. So I actually really like his game, but I agree with you, Justin, in that there's probably still another level

he can get to, but he's much like a lot of his teammates that way. Look, as far as the bottom six here, I think the third line's shaping up, obviously, with Dakota Joshua now playing better, certainly helps. But where's Max Domey and all of this when it's all said and done for you? I don't know if he's ever going to find a fit, Nick. I mean, it feels like, you know,

if not weekly, daily, he's getting jostled around. whether it's one wing to another up the middle first line fourth line like he's the kind of guy that Brubay just throws him everywhere he's avoided the the dreaded healthy scratch that that hit Michelli that has hit yarn crock that has hit some of these other guys that get moved around but you know on a fourth line you know watching them last night I was with Lawton slotting into the middle I was like this line actually can sustain a bit of zone time and and don't He kind of looks okay here. I think he gets overwhelmed with the more so the defensive matchups when he's in the top six.

I think he still struggles defensively. I think we kind of all know what he is at this point. I just wonder if the way to get him going might be some more power play touches because they don't have a real facilitator on that top unit. You know, thinking of facilitators in general, do you think that Ekman Larson can do better than Riley? And I know this is like the conversation we have. there's no other lever to pull but sure a little bit but i i don't know it's it's uh it's a problem

so the the the leaves are right now third worst and um power play percentage but in terms of goal differential they're actually worse like their own because they've given up two uh two shorties uh that they're only plus two on the power play which you you can't imagine is is going to keep going, but it's almost embarrassing, right? So, you know, I feel like they're grasping at straws. They threw East and Cowan on that unit for a while. Now they threw OEL on that unit.

And the other issue that PowerPlay has is they don't get enough work. The Leafs haven't drawn that many penalties. So every time they go out, there seems to be this pressure. Okay, you guys are struggling. You better perform. You better perform. And then when they don't, it just kind of builds and builds.

And luckily, the even strength offense is picking them up. But, oh, may be a little bit marginally better at getting sifters through or walking the line a little bit, but I don't know if this is some grand solution that's going to turn things around. Look, one more quick one

before we let you go and we go to break here, Joseph Wall, where's the sighting of his next game? Have they been asked at all whether or not he'll go to the Marleys? Do we just assume that between now and maybe, I

don't know, to Chicago, the follow week that he'll come back and play a game? Yeah, I would give it another week, but that's, I'm guessing they have a date circled and they won't tell us. They have been asked if the Marley's are an option and Brad True Living said, yeah, that's something that they're considering. And why not? I mean, they're being so careful with this guy.

Like he hasn't even addressed the media yet, but he is practicing with the team. He's not traveling with the team yet. He didn't come to Columbus and Philadelphia. and practice with them there. So they're being very cautious and taking their sweet time. And hey, they're on a three-game win streak. It leaves a little bit of the pressure. Say they had lost a few of those games.

The pressure will be ramped up for this weekend because Caden Primo's kind of showing us guys that he's not the solution. And Anthony Stollars, that softy he left in or let in last night. It kind of shows me that, you know, the workload might be getting to this guy a little bit. great stuff luke okay thanks for doing this pal thanks pal appreciate your time luke fox sportsnet dot caa all right i mean everyone's kind of all aboard the stolars is looking a little rundown thing maybe just playing bad maybe we're all wrong kind of coincides a little bit with talking a little bit too much maybe that one time oh

for sure that's it that's it definitely that's why i went through his like last thing believe we we call that confirmation bias hey very good thank you hey you talked about baseball gods there are hockey gods too there are certainly speaking of baseball guys i've been reading more oh and talking more about the jays yeah did you see this stuff today about hoffman no apparently there was a dodger podcast that got a tidbit from game seven that during the bench clearing brawl jeffman was the one who was talking the most and talking the most crap. And a lot of the Dodgers veterans apparently said, don't get in the game.

Don't get in the game tonight. Yeah. And he got in the game and he blew it. I said the same thing. You heard me say that to Barker the other day, watching him be the most active participant in that brawl is really disconcerning. It's like, you're going to be involved in a big moment. You just focused on doing the pitching.

He should have sat on his little chair and the ballpen and never come out. He just don't believe in that, too you? Karma. I believe in karma. It's not a karma thing. It's a real. Yeah. They gives them extra motivation.

Extra motivation. Lack of focus. Don't hang a 3-2 slider to them. Nine a lighter. Did you watch the 20-minute Johnboy break down? Absolutely not. I'm not there yet. I'm just like trickling more stuff.

They got a commercial running on the TVs here in the Rogers building. That's literally an emotional montage. And I'm just like, oh, like every day I go buy it. I've watched parts of Game 7 like four different times since coming home from Game 7. Yeah. Oh, I haven't seen a second. It's fantastic theater. Oh, yeah, for sure.

It's tough when you see all the openings they have. All right. Just like that, leave our edition over. Luke Fox, thank you very much. When we go next national, we'll welcome in Adam Oates, plus a discussion on Ovechkin's 900th goal, Jordan Binnington, hiding the puck in his pants. Good.

The question I ask you guys is when he returned it to the official. was it the same puck. Oh! Love that idea. Have a conversation on that when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.