Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Fourth Line Lift

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with reactions to Shohei Ohtani's decision over the weekend before discussing the Leafs' 4-0 victory over the Predators on Saturday. They get into what was a rare complete effort from the Leafs, Samsonov's strong play coming off his illness and an excellent showing from the fourth line. Then, onto tonight's matchup against the Islanders with Tavares just two points away from hitting the 1000-career-point mark. They are joined by former Islander defenceman Thomas Hickey (31:13) to tee up the game, Sorokins' season of setbacks, the vibes around the team and the type of reception Tavares will get in the potential milestone match.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

you are listening and watching on sports net 590 sports net 360 and sports net plus from 4 to 6 p.m the real kipper and born show on this monday yeah december i don't know what it is it's the 11th of december is it the 11th already i know it's not wild time flies yes we're glad you're on board wherever you download our podcast you want to send us a text send your condolences oh did something happen friday we went from the Otani watch, when they announced on Saturday a $700 million deal to L.A., we went to a Sammy McKee watch. Yeah. JB, call him, see if he's okay. Check in.

Check in. It's like when someone gets a concussion, just make sure they haven't hurt themselves. Sammy up every three hours. Okay? That was our Sammy. Sammy. Yeah. Okay? That's, that was our Sammy. Sammy. Yeah.

Go ahead, Jamie. If you can delete any episodes of our show off the internet, it would be the first week followed by last show. Anyway. So, are you okay? That's all our, listen. No, Tommy. All our viewers, all our watchers just want to, they're saying, is Sammy okay?

I got a lot of messages on after it happened asking if i was okay yes i really did like people were checking it out yeah my mom wrote was like is sam okay i had to admit boys i don't really get like this often we talk a lot on this show we say a lot of dumb things about the toronto maple leafs and i really never regret it yeah like i just you know, I live with it. It's what it is. It's the job. But I have woken up

in a cold sweat multiple times over the past weekend. Lost sleep over this, over our show on Friday. Why? It's the saddest time capsule of all time.

It is. Sammy. It was an hour. is. It was an hour. It was an hour where three men sitting in this room truly believed that Shohei Ohtani

was going to be a blue jay. Time out, time out, time. Two. Oh, come on. No way. And I would like to say, I think there was enough breadcrumbs

for sure. Listen, I was... No one celebrated the completion, but there was enough breadcrumbs for sure to listen i was celebrated the completion but there was enough bread i go oh my god i'm defending myself a little bit i was leaning towards it yeah but on friday it was me i told you i'm worried if it doesn't happen for sammy did i not say that on friday also kip you also said that you feel like a lot of it could be for leverage, if you will. That was my first gut instinct. Yeah. The very first time we talked about this.

The very first time we even went down that path, I said that, and I'm mad at myself. You may be in a puddle, but I'm mad at myself you may be in a puddle but i'm mad at myself because i didn't i didn't stick with my first gut instinct because you would have looked like the smartest guy ever if you had been like the whole time it's leverage it's leverage so i just it was a as big a gut punch as i can remember getting that, you know, I still believe. I woke up the next day and I still had a regroup. I was extremely sad Friday

after because we go out of here. I'm up in the newsroom. I'm waiting around like... The Nightingale tweet was devastating. I'm like, this might happen. This might happen. I'm waiting around. I'm like, I want to be here when this happens. They were right there. They were right there. I know. I know they were right there. And that's the part that's the hardest

to swallow, fellas, is that they were right in this to the end. They had to be right in this to the end. I'm not faulting the front office for one second.

This is a different type of free agent. You have to be all in no matter what. Yeah. And they were right there and it just didn't come through. So now, I don't know.

I said to Sammy, I did Leafs talk on saturday and i said to him it's one thing for the pretty girl in school to not want to date you it's another thing to have publicly told the high school that you love her and want her to date you and then have her say no it hurts a little bit more so from that aspect i can feel the burn a little bit here but like there's just there's no way it gets to 700 million without the Jays. Yeah, for sure. He's did.

They put some money in his pocketbook and I will. So the next part of this that kind of ties into what we do here about the Leafs and about Toronto is I'm seeing a lot of the people south of the border writing about, tweeting about, talking about how this is good for baseball that he ended up there. It's good for baseball. And like talking about Toronto like it's, you know, it's Siberia. Yeah. And, you know, I can't, I shouldn't let this stuff get to me because it's definitely like an inferiority complex. But it pisses me off to no end. But you said something to me in the newsroom today where I'm like, oh, no.

I forget who the tweet was from, but it was like, for all you people in Toronto, you know, feeling like the small market here to the Dodgers, this is how the Winnipeg Jets fans feel all the time. And I was like, oh, God, are we doing that? We are LA. So this is an apology to, you know. I just hate that it's like, oh, Toronto, it's good for me.

How many people watch a Dodgers regional game versus a Blue Jays game on a Tuesday night? The Jays, a million people watch a Tuesday night against the Royals. How many people are watching in? It's like that part of it is so tone deaf. I saw that the per game viewership is actually higher in Toronto than anywhere else in baseball. That part of it is so tone deaf for me. Oh, it's viewership is actually higher in Toronto than anywhere else in baseball. That part of it is so tone deaf for me.

Oh, it's so good for baseball. Give me a break. Give me a break. Well, I know you said off air that you kind of were embarrassed about Friday. Oh, and I'll say it right now. I am still embarrassed about Friday. Yeah, but you shouldn't be. I know.

You shouldn't be because this is what we love about you, Sammy. You represent the guy, the gal at home. The idiot. I represent the idiot. Yes, in many ways you do, but they're people too, Sammy. I know, man. I know. And you, that's what makes you great on our show is that you bring that passion and emotion,

and I don't want you to change for one second. So keep feeling like an idiot. Thank you. and emotion and i don't want you to change for one second so keep feeling like an idiot thank you but also thank you when you're on the other side of it it feels that much better too when you're that paw committed right and i mean that's right so now when the jays pick up uh bellinger and re-sign chapman and uh you know do all this stuff and get competitive by the way the one the best thing that can happen now is to not root for Otani for injuries or whatever, but just root for him to kind of go like Batista, like 32, start hitting about 250, 20-some homers. That'd be nice.

Listen, there's a lot of stuff floating around on the internet, conspiracy theory-wise, that I will neither confirm nor deny I'm believing. We don't need to get into the details of it. But if any of what is being reported is true, you know how I was telling you on Friday how much I would hate Shohei Ohtani? It is times 10. He is my least favorite athlete of all time.

Easily. Like Daniel Alvarez. I would wear a Daniel Alvarez jersey to my... He hates Ohtani. Hold on. I'd wear a Daniel Alvarez jersey to my wedding. We promise everybody we're going to get to the Leafs on this edition of Real Kipper and Bourne Show.

We can't just move on from this like last week didn't happen. Just for a split second. Can't stand him. What is it about him that you can't stand more today than like a week ago? What? Well, that he didn't sign here. He used us. he used the toronto

blue jays that's the part i think maybe some people around him maybe he didn't say don't do that he didn't say he said drum it up baby hey i don't don't do that i love the people of toronto i want to go play for them he didn't do that that. He said, in fact, I'm going to London. The number one ticket next year is the first Dodgers game when they play here. And I'm going to go there like he's prime Vince Carter.

Yeah, man. Yeah, man. I'm going to say, $700 million can't buy you pride, buddy. This went down as one of the best and biggest negotiation play in the history of sport. No question. Complete silence. Nothing leaked.

And you hate him that much more because of it. Because they kept everybody on the outside. Listen, Kipper. That reason sucks on your part. No, they strung us along, Kipper. They strung us along. Sour grapes. Absolutely.

Okay, that's why we love you. Are you crazy? I hold grudges for way less than this. Okay, once again. This is not logical. I'll say just yes, Sammy. Thank you. Just don't change. This is not logical. I'll say just yes, Sammy. Thank you. Just don't change.

Don't change. Be shallow. I'm here for my Jays fans, and I'm telling you, if you're listening and you care about what I say, you better be buying tickets to that game, and you better be booing alongside me. That's all I know. Okay.

Love it. So the good news is. Yes. Boy, that means Saturday. The Leafs saved all Blue Jay fans over the weekend with their most complete effort of the season. 4-0 win over Nashville. Yeah.

No, that was a really refreshing game. I don't know if you guys saw Sheldon Keefe talk to the team postgame. They had one of those little blueprint clips where he was just like. Which I hate, by the way, because they're always just a little kind of full of themselves. Oh, it's... Full of themselves. It's state-controlled media.

When you know it's on camera, when you know it's going out there, it's not real of real. It's just real for the fans, too. But don't you think that guy, the social team's probably there every game? Yeah, for sure. Probably like in every game thing?

But these guys are on camera all the time. They're not even thinking about when there's a camera and there's not a camera you know what i heard no they do you think yeah without a doubt a hundred percent you don't get to say exactly how you feel knowing that something's going to be recorded i also heard that the you know it's a dad trip dad's trip right now that the dads are in like the pre-game meetings and stuff with the players having to listen and i couldn't imagine being the coach and going through that and i got to like i don't know i got all the dads there what is this camp now if it was real it'd be like can you get your kid yeah to put one on the tape for once yeah on a breakout did you never wrestle with your son? Why is he so soft? You know, like it's just a weird setup.

But anyway, in that clip, he talks about how that was what they needed. It was a tidy game. They took care of business, you know, and it was all those things. Samsonov gets a shutout, but he only had to make 18 saves. Nashville looked overmatched in a lot of areas. So nice to come in here and say the better team won it was the leafs no butts attached all right let's go to sheldon key for our first kippers clipper of the week on his overview what he saw but i just thought we had all game i thought we had a real patient approach in the second period especially we started to really our game

started to really come and i thought we really took care of the puck and just made sure we were just going to wear them down and not really let their game get started offensively. And then I thought through that, that over time we could break them down. And the guys stayed patient until that happened, and then they got their chances in the second period where we got behind them and made good on them. But we had some chances in the first period where we got behind them and made good on them. But we had some chances in the first period as well that we didn't make good on

and allowed the game to stay at zeros. But I just loved our second period and that set us up for the third, which the guys took care of well. Yeah, I saw that. I saw better line changes. I saw Austin Matthews coming off the ice on a play going up the ice,

which was a nice change. So it was a lot tidier. They weren't chasing the puck as much. They had it. It didn't take unnecessary gambles. So it was what Sheldon just said question for you what did you think of Nashville starting Lankanen they had a back-to-back yeah and they wanted Soros to go the next night against Montreal and in their defense they did get the win in Montreal with Soros and

Nett but but no offense like Toronto's right so your is, why didn't you play your better goalie? Sure, yeah. Are you trying to win both? Exactly. Are you trying to win both games? Or is Nashville kind of coming in here like, we probably won't win? Yeah. Which is, to me, sends a pretty negative message to your guys at the gate.

Yeah, it's a different mindset. It's the opposite of the Babs mindset of starting your guy in the first game. I think it's just that they thought, you know, if we win it with him, good. But if we don't. It's such like a quitter attitude to me going into the game. But yeah. I mean, goaltending wasn't their issue. I thought he was pretty good for the first period and a half.

I thought he was pretty good too. Yeah. I loved the Matthews five-hole shot. Like as he's coming across laterally. Like not many people choose five holes. The goalie's diving across. I thought that was really clever. So yeah, I'm not going to fault Lankan.

I think Samsonov started the game. I didn't. My only reason why I thought Jones should have started on the weekend was not knowing exactly where Samsonov was coming off a week of illness. But Sammy, you said, get him in there right away. And they did. It wasn't overly taxed again.

What are they average? Six shots a period. Yeah. There's 18 total. Not bad. Yeah. Like if you had to pick a perfect game to him for him to come back, it would have been Saturday.

Nashville's top line is sneaky. Dominant this season with Ryan O'Reilly and Forsberg. Like if you look at their, they control like 60 some percent of expected goals. They't great against matthews line head-to-head matthews line carried the shots uh eight to three i think in that head-to-head matchup so if you neutralize their top line there's not a whole lot left that can burn you okay let's go to sheldon keef on what his thoughts were on samson off you know if you could draw it up as a perfect game for him,

that would probably be it. You know, doesn't let anything in. The guys play well in front of him. For a guy that hasn't played in a while and is coming off an illness, he said, you know, he had three good skates this week, you know, practice days. We were comfortable playing them tonight. But hasn't played, obviously.

And with Wall's injury and such, there's a little bit of pressure and attention on that position right now. And for Sammy to come in and have a night like that is great for him and something for him to build on for sure. I think there was a post or two where he couldn't find the puck, but outside of that, there was no real danger. I would say there was, I think they hit three. I think they hit three posts.

Pretty hard. But, you know, one thing we talked with Samsonov is about when he gets busy. And I thought he was pretty quiet. Yeah. You know, he wasn't flying around out there and diving out of the net. My son played goaltender for the first time in his life on the weekend. Oh, yeah. And just full Peter Morazic.

Like, post to post, he's in the corner. You know, it was chaos. Hopefully he hated it. And he did. the weekend yeah and just full peter morazic like post to post he's in the corner slightly you know it was chaos and i was hopefully he hated it and i did he did good is that one of those situations where every kid's got a play in that one ever gets a crack at it yeah i did it a bunch yeah it's a parent nightmare yeah he made a few stops but not enough to have fun it was great good yeah i was like this looks you know like samson off when he's off and Sammy didn't look like my seven-year-old. That's where you just pull him off the ice and it's like, God, that didn't look like fun at all, right?

It was horrible, right? Yeah, you don't want to ever do that again. He just left a pebble in his skate. I don't know. Did that hurt today? See the left side of the ice there? It's like the wing. That's way more fun.

Oh, look how fast it can go up and down there. Yeah, exactly. Now, did we see a different Kemp camp than we saw probably in the first well five or six weeks of the season because that looked like a completely different player to me yeah i mean the point i made on leaf stock after with borny and i'll make it here too is that when you're playing a team that pretty clearly didn't have it, to me, in the Nashville Predators, I don't think they're terrible, but they played terribly. They weren't very good.

No. Your lesser guys sort of start to elevate a little bit. Like, for example, Benoit, he stepped up on McDonough there and hammered him, and he hadn't done that all year. Like, Kampf had the beautiful goal. It's like preseason when Connor Timmons is like electric or, you know, Nick Ritchie or whoever it was here lights it up. And Kampf, he scored that beautiful goal,

but he also had like three or four other times where he looked like he was buzzing. He had the puck in his stick. So I think your lesser players look really good on a night like that, but I thought he did look better, and they need him to be better. So it was good. I think he finished with like almost 16 minutes of ice time like flying oh that's not that's not fourth line minutes no and let me just say that's damning for the western conference that nashville's a playoff

team yeah like that's a i think that's a bad team i actually think that's one of the worst teams we've seen play this year yeah there was maybe because if Forsberg is not carrying them and I think he came in rather hot 13 goals in 16 games yeah like if he is not on completely is a game I don't know where else you go and Brian O'Reilly we all love, but he is not, he doesn't carry a team. I mean, I was just looking at their lineup. Like, I know we watched that game, but, like, I don't know where it's supposed to come from. Parsonson, Trennan, Sherwood, Tomasino, Evangelista.

There's nothing there. Okay, let's go to Keefe. Let's go to Keefe talking about his fourth line. Offensively, and, you know, I think he's just getting better and better. I thought his line was excellent tonight. Gregor was excellent tonight. I thought Revo fit really well in the line. Made me comfortable playing them here tonight.

But, yeah, that goal obviously is a huge one for us because you're just waiting to kind of – you're waiting for that moment. You're being patient. You keep working, but you need to get rewarded, you know, and for Camford to come through like that, that was big. Yeah, I don't know. Do the guys need to be rewarded to know if they're contributing well on a fourth line?

I mean, listen, I played the role. I lived it, and it's nice to I mean, listen, I played the role. I lived it. And it's nice to score for sure. But I don't know. It's not even what you're supposed to be doing, right? If I'm out there causing havoc and I can't. Yeah, it's different with Kemp though because he doesn't cause havoc, right? They're not havoc guys.

No, not necessarily. Although Gregor can do it a little bit. Gregor would piss me off. Yeah. And I say that in a good way. It's like, could you stop skating 1,000 miles an hour and running into our guys? Someone will try to fight you at some point

if you do that long enough, and that's good. That's what we like. And if Reeves can find a way to keep up and not put himself in a vulnerable situation defensively, he can find his spots where he can look like he's earning his money. Yeah, Sheldon actually talked about Reeves a little bit

today. It's clip seven. Why don't we have that on Reeves? I think it's really common. I thought his game the other night for our whole team was probably our best game, but for him and that line in terms of how the three of them were working off of each other and how connected they were and the pace and physicality and pressure they had on the puck,

it was really tremendous. And that's really what we've been looking for for our entire team. But Revo was right there in the thick of it. And it was really good to see. See, I like where he is right now, too, because you come in, you've been told the room's too quiet. So you come in, you want to make some noise

and you suck a lot of oxygen out of the room with the media and you go to Instagram and you put on your Halloween mask and you send those clips out. He's flexing when he walked in for his introduction. It's all like, it doesn't really mean anything and you put on your Halloween mask and you send those clips out. He's flexing when he walked out for his introductions. It's all like it doesn't really mean anything unless you get the job done on the ice, and he was not able to get the job done.

I like the quiet Reeves right now. Yeah? Yeah, absolutely. Just go out there and finish your checks when you can, and that's what has to come first, and then the rest of it can follow. You're right. If you can and that that's that's what has to come first yeah and then the rest of it can follow you're right if you can't consistently contribute enough that they want you in the lineup then you know all that sort of flexing and stuff is yes exactly yeah it feels like the his the storm

the reeve storm has kind of passed here a little bit where we were coming in here after every game when he was they can't use him he was like he's un... So they can't use him. He was like, he's unplayable. You can't have him on the ice. Like, he's not a player. Yeah. And then he gets sat, and it's that weird schedule in Sweden, and he's rested for however long. And then he comes back, and he's just been capable? Yeah, he's been fine.

Is that a good way to put it? If he's that, with the ability to go nuclear if they need him to, that's what he's here for. I would like to see a nuclear shift or two at some point. Like, I would like to see everybody's gloves come off and have a crazy shift once or twice. We'll get into more specifics in our national hour at the top of the clock.

But, like, take a look around the league. It always gets a little hairy this time of year in December. People let their guard up. It's gone a little nuclear. Branson went nuclear. Who did he ever? Right? As he should have, in my opinion.

And we'll get into that in our next hour, but that's what you're talking about, aren't you? I'm talking about a shift where it's banana sandwich. People are flying around, gloves. There's a yard sale. It looks like a 1996 junior hockey game out there. I'm waiting for one of those.'re talking major snot yes and you would have thought that sitting here on december 11th we would have seen more than two ryan reeves fights to this point we got uh

thomas hickey we're going to take a break in a few minutes. We're going to get Thomas Hickey, former NHL defenseman, former teammate of John Tavares. John Tavares is now sitting, what, three points shy? Sammy, am I right? Two. Two points shy. He picked one up Saturday night. Two points shy of 1,000 in his NHL career, which would add to the storyline of John Tavares going back to the island.

But it's been five years now, and yet this is an intriguing storyline tonight. Is John going back to the island? And it's not, it's far from over. It is. We actually have a really great clip on this, on Tavares. We're going to throw it out to Tavares talking about going back to long island john uh yeah oh hold on this is not a real clip no we have real clips i want to hear john this is john himself obviously it's a tremendous honor to go back to somewhere where i always love playing storied franchise where i grew up as

a hockey player and it's a really tremendous honor for me. I can't wait to play tonight and a thousand points is a real honor. Not sure I'll get there tonight. We'll see what happens, but really excited to play. Thanks, John. Thanks. We appreciate that. And that's been John Tavares. This is why you should not throw clips. That's why I'm in

charge here. Legitimately, we're going to clip a Tavares thing today and it's like there's no point. He just says the right things. Let's're gonna clip a Tavares thing today and it's like there's no okay let's see let's get the real John Tavares clip yes well we have Keith talking about yeah we don't actually have we did have I don't even have John we just wanted fake John Kipper I started to listen to it and my eyes crossed I can't get through it, we'll go to Sheldon Keefe on his captain. Yeah, it's quite an accomplishment. I mean, it's 1,000 games is impressive, of course,

in and of itself, but 1,000 points just speaks to consistency. I mean, John's got a lot of game left in him here, so it just speaks to how consistent he's been throughout his career. Yeah, so it's tremendous, so he's been throughout his career uh yeah so it's it's uh tremendous so he's uh on the cusp of that so jb i'll start with you five years later yeah it is is the the passion to hate john in the island as strong as sammy's for otani today no and i say that purely as a reflection of Sam Frotani's. You know, it doesn't seem to have dissipated much on Long Island.

When I'm there, I hear it from people all the time. They still, they call him a snake. That's the most common phrase. They're not happy about it. So it may take a little time. You know, all John can do is do the right things. You know, I actually did read one of his quotes today where he talked about he poured his heart and soul out there for nine years as the captain meant a lot to him

tremendous honor to be back tremendous honor he hasn't had a ton of success how many games now? he's played 11 games against he has 7 points as a Leaf 7 points in 11 games for him I'm just looking at his splits against all his teams, and he's

basically just point per game against everyone. Yeah. So it's a pretty big, like 11's his smallest sample size, but to look at it like that, that's, that tells me something. He's in a bit of a dry spell scoring goals too, is he? Yeah. Two and 15.

If he gets a ton of chances. If he gets a ton of chances. If he gets 1,000, there should be acknowledgement out of the Islanders, don't you think? They have to acknowledge it, right? Yes, 100%. Of course. Like, would they have... Tavares left as a UFA. Would they have a little video?

He didn't force a trade. A little video? No video. I'm just asking. I'm telling you, he didn't force a trade. Sammy, it would be a classy thing to do for the Islanders. They won't do a video. They'll put up a thing on the jumbotron being like,

1,000 points. I bet you if they did, congratulations, John Tavares, 1,000 points, it would be 50% booze and cheers. No shot. At some point, you have to acknowledge 100 players in NHL history have got 1,000 points. I would be disappointed in the Islanders if they did not. It's a big number. If they did not acknowledge 1,000 points for him. It would be a thousand points. I would be disappointed in the Islanders if they did not acknowledge

a thousand points for him. And I'm not saying stop the game and present him with like silverware. One setting of cutlery. Well, that's what they used to do. That's what Harold Ballard used to do for Leaf players.

Like when Sittler scored his 10 points or Ian Turnbull scored five goals, he'd give them like a tea set. Go down to the Bay and pick one up or what? I'm telling you, I'm not making it up. Yeah. It's a different time.

I don't know. Did he fly it in from Tiffany's? I have no idea. I got a hunch. No. But it was a silver, like sterling silver tea set. It's good stuff. What do you want me to say?

It's good, you know? Better than a stick in the pants. If you're watching today, put it on eBay. I'm curious what it would get. Legit, I bet if he put the backstory with that from Ballard, Daryl Sittler's nice tea set, I bet you it's worth money. Classic Auctions, where are you at? Yeah.

Where's my historian Gord Stelic to verify my story right now? Probably at the dog park. Probably at the dog park. But something, Sammy. Yeah. Something. I think, but I mean, I'm trying to think back to when, I guess it's just the history with him there,

but if you went to Chicago and he got it, they're not going to put something up, right? A thousand points. I don't know. You're probably right. It is different. There's another layer. I wouldn't expect it.

If they wanted to, and you could say that's a class move by an organization, but this is John in the island. They're not dumb. You know, Lou is a pretty classic old school guy. I think he'd do the right thing. I do think they would do something for him. I just need John to put it on tonight.

We need old Mitchie. Mitchie to be the dish and magician. Yeah, I think. Yeah, now that we've talked about it, I think they might do something. Oh, we'll see. But I would say that I see both sides of this as a Leaf fan dying for it to happen. Yeah. But like as a fan, get why they hate him and get why they're booing him.

And I get why they would be upset if they put something up. Like, for example, I don't know what's a good example here. Let me think of this. If Austin Matthews comes back here with somebody else and he scores. Arizona? Yeah, maybe. Comes back and scores his 600th goal in Toronto. Quick to volunteer in Arizona, wasn't he?

It would depend on how it ends. I guess there's no real parallel in the job, but I don't think I would be like at the arena being like, yeah, great. Thrilled for this. It is a funny question about like what your obligation is as a pending UFA to tell your team I'm going to leave or whatever before you know before you even know well you can't disguise it anymore because everything is documented so it's like i love it here uh i hope it works out and then yeah what's he supposed to say like you can't

tell me i don't know listen you can't tell me that John didn't know real early in the process. It was in the last second decision. But that's where I do quibble with it. Like, why would we assume he knows before he's gone to these places, talked to the team, seen the offers? You know, like, he can't know exactly what it's going to look like. And so I don't think it's unreasonable to say if the Islanders have the best offer or whatever, he's going to stay in and so i don't think it's unreasonable to say if the islanders have the best offer or whatever he's gonna stay in long island on long island once

again so everybody says that the jay's facility is like state-of-the-art no one ever comes close and that's that that didn't have any bearing i do believe the show he went there knowing he was not nobody's sitting there going oh the training facility is phenomenal i got a great four weeks there at training camp yeah and i can go there in the offseason. I'm picking Toronto. That's not happening. No, I do believe that's a leverage play. But anyway. Sorry. We're so

close to going to break on a high. Sorry, Sammy. It's okay. Do you want to hear about Matthews and Willie's chemistry from, oh, we need to cut. Let's hit a break. Oh, yeah, we're going to hit a break and then when we come back, Thomas Hickey's join us ts up the return of john tavaris and the chase for a thousand points that more on real kipper and born don't go away fresh views on everything in the national football league it's the fan check down with matt marchese and donovan

bennett subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Toronto Maple Leafs getting ready to go back-to-back in New York. Island tonight. New York. Island tonight. New York City tomorrow night. You know, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. Well, you made it there, pal.

So look at you go. You know who else is making it there? Thomas Hickey. Yes, he is. Former NHL defenseman. Doing a terrific job as one of their analysts for MSG. Let's welcome him in. Thomas, how are you?

Hey, guys. I'm good. I'm ready for this one tonight just like you guys are yeah i'm not lying when i say if you can make it there you can make it anywhere right you can back that up that's right you you you did it in a big city kipper in manhattan but you know you're right and i think you just asked the la kings uh if we're talking about hockey itself uh you know this, this has been a tough place to play for teams coming in. You saw the Kings go down to both

the Rangers and the Islanders, but yeah, no question about that. So Thomas, give us a bit of background here on what kind of team the Leafs are going to see tonight because my good buddy here, JB, is telling me from an analytics point of view man it's not

pretty when it comes to the new york islanders so who are the least going to see tonight it's a good question and i think one that uh you get a you get a different result the different answer every single time look defensively the metrics they're they're ugly uh they're not good at all this is a group that's given up the second most high-danger chances in the entire National Hockey League, and there's been some bad teams. But it's also a team that is sort of the sum of its parts. They have a way of getting it done when they do give up a lot. Great goaltending.

You're going to see Ilya Sorokin, and he's not a guy that has looked like he has in the past, especially last season with how good he was. But he comes up in big moments. And I think this is a group that relies on him an awful lot or Semi Anvar Lama when he's playing, but they give up a bunch. They found a way of scoring. They're about,

you know, four to five goals a game over the last six, not, not counting the last game against Los Angeles. They're, they're top guys. I think you can expect to be really good tonight. Matt Barzell has been sensational lately.

Bo Horvat, the two of them got a chemistry that's really going. And Ilya Sorokin, like I mentioned, no adoption on defense. This is a guy that you got to keep your head up for. Doesn't look anything like you saw him in the last couple of years. He's bringing it offensively. He's very good defensively. But as far as the group you're going to see they start on time one of the best first period teams in the nhl and they've

struggled in the third period because they've led so much and and had a tough time with teams really throwing everything they've got at them for usually half of the game as they've held that lead and had a tough time holding on to it but you'd expect them to start on time tonight you know you know i was talking to kip um early before we came on the show and just showing him some of those defensive metrics like for years the isles were like the best defensive team you know or at least one of them they would they would give you nothing they couldn't score and they just kind of played two one games that doesn't seem to be with this islanders team very trots yeah there was a lot

of you know trots related stuff you know so now they're without pellets, they're without Pollock, you know, there still seems to be enough veteran guys that they could defend better than they do. You know, what sort of change that they're struggling a little bit to protect their goaltenders who, as you mentioned, have been very good to kind of protect them and keep them in games? Yeah, it's funny. I think if you don't watch the Islanders play, you do have that preconceived notion is, okay, well, if you're down two goals or if you're down one in the third period, it's funny. I think if you don't watch the Islanders play, you do have that preconceived notion is, OK, well, if you're down two goals or if you're down one in the third period, it's game over. And that just hasn't been the case this year. It's really strange.

The biggest part of that, the penalty kill has really struggled. And when teams have gotten back into games, it's usually on a third period power play. The Islanders haven't been able to close it out. And goaltending is obviously your goaltender is going to be your best penalty killer. They haven't been getting those saves in the third period specifically, but a group that really struggled, maybe it turns mental after it happens two or three times. And there's been, I think,

10 instances where they've given up a third period lead. And a lot of times it starts with a poor penalty. And then all of a sudden it's one goal and that momentum, they can't find a way and this is a group that it's happened so many times it happened against San Jose it seems like the Sharks are doing it to everyone right now but gave up three goals in the last eight minutes of the game ended up losing in overtime and thought here we go again this team just can't get over the hump a few days later played against Columbus and had their best third period of the season. And then last night, or sorry, two nights ago against Los Angeles Kings,

they found their game in the third period, ended up scoring two in the Kings and beating them in overtime. So maybe they're over that hump, but I look to how much they give up off of the rush. It seems like the gaps haven't quite been there, especially with the two guys, Pelican and Pulak, out, as you mentioned, just haven't been able to stand. And against a team like the Leafs that has a ton of skill and can make plays crossing the blue line,

it's definitely something to keep an eye on tonight. But for me, it all comes down to the penalty kill. That's been the way they've been letting teams back into the game. We're talking to Thomas Hickey. Does a terrific job covering the New York Islanders for MSG. He's also been a teammate of John Tavares for what, half a dozen seasons. First of all, just his return again. It doesn't matter, Thomas, we could be talking about a hundred year deal and it'll always be a big story for some

reason. John Tavares going back to the the island but what do you expect tonight on a guy on the cusp of maybe scoring a thousand points it's a storyline like i don't think you can draw it out much better i mean maybe if he was at 999 and looking for that one point tonight that would be that much better but look i i'm a i'm a fan of johnny a friend and former teammate and uh you know what? I don't echo that too loud around here because fans are still bitter. It's been six years and there'll be boos every time number 91 touches the puck. And maybe it's going to take him in a different jersey someday,

if that ever happens, that he comes back here to get the ovation that he deserves. But an extremely loyal fan base with an extremely good memory. And he's going to be getting booed tonight. And I know, Johnny, how bad he's going to want to get to 1,000. Every night, you know the way he competes and hunts pucks down. And, you know, despite the reception he gets, I know that this is a special place to him. And I can't imagine if it's not in Toronto,

there would be no other building that he'd love to do it than this one itself. So I think the players on the team know that. the fans are going to be aware of it tonight. And he's probably going to hear about it whenever he touches the puck. Listen, John's a pro. There's no question about it. And sometimes the good players get booed. But do you think there's a part of him that might be bothered by it this far along into his Leaf career?

I think so. I think if you're human, like, I can't speak for Johnny. If it was me, you know, that first game, that was difficult and tough. And look, I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong. I encourage our fans to say whatever they want and express themselves. Their loyalty and passion is what I love most about them.

But you would think, Kipra, six years later, that maybe there'd be enough time to gather your thoughts and maybe think of someone in a different light. He's a pro. He keeps his head down. I think for him, it's maybe showing them that he can win. That's probably the biggest thing that he could do to maybe calm all the noise. And until then, I think this is a guy that has a ton of pride, and he's human. So it's got to bother him deep down.

But as you know, you talk to him, you listen to him talk. It's strictly business all the time, and it's just focusing at the game at hand for him. But it would bother me, and I can't imagine it not bothering anyone because he did so many good things here as well hicks speaking of those islanders fans two things how uh how did they feel about this islanders team like where they add on things and how are they feeling about the ubs arena experience which i know they just opened the whole outside park and everything. It looks pretty awesome. It's incredible. So what they're doing here, I tip our cap to ownership and UBS Arena and MSG Networks is part of it. Just setting up an outdoor park where people are going to have access to skating,

not just on game nights, but every single day of the week. And we're going to be doing our pre- and post-game shows out there. Doing a phenomenal job just bringing hockey to people that don't have it at their fingertips. There's not as many rinks as there are, obviously, in Canada. They there doing a phenomenal job just bringing hockey to people that don't have it at their fingertips there's not as many rinks as as there are obviously in canada they're doing a great job uvs is is sensational the fans about the team um a frustrated group look it's been a difficult year for me in this position to analyze a group that's so inconsistent so many times and i think with this uh the fan base craves is really a consistent team and you don't get it every single night even most nights you see two different teams in the same

night just with the way that they play um about three weeks ago uh everyone was calling for the head of the coach and the head of the gm and all of a sudden you woke up last week and looked at the standings and this team's in a play you woke up last week and looked at the standings and this team's in a playoff spot the Metro division is so bizarre this season you get teams that are underachieving and you got a couple that are overachieving you get the New York Islanders that are probably right where you'd expect them to be but things look good so I think this fan base as frustrated as they are you wake up and reality strikes that you're very much right on track to make the playoffs so um you know it's a group that uh the fans that that have a ton of passion and and i

think that they realize the window for this hockey team the way the roster is constructed and built is this team needs to win now because if they can't um you might have some grim years so i think that that's what they see and that's why they want the results. And I can't blame them for that at all. Wow, Thomas, when I hear you say that this is a team that kind of needs to win now, and I look at the lineup, and you mentioned it earlier, the chemistry with Horvat and Barzell's good now. But Bo Horvat, I love a lot of part of his game, but I don't consider him a true superstar right now.

And as far as barzell is concerned he seems to me like we should be talking about him in that one of the most talented players and dynamic skaters but it's just like you keep waiting year after year for him to kind of go into that next threshold of stars and it just hasn't happened i know maybe this year he's on a career path to points maybe close to 90 but is he ready now to be that guy he is he is ready now and i agree with you kipper for the longest time and uh his rookie season he was a point of game player and you just assumed that that would be the bar that was set and it wouldn't go lower, and perhaps he's a 100-point player. The reality is he hasn't had guys to play with like he does now.

And with Bo Horvat, do I think he's a superstar? I don't. But when you team him up with Matt Barzell, not only are you getting a better player in Barzell, you're getting a lot less heavy lifting for Matt Barzell because Bo Horvat's a centerman. Matt Barzell moved to wing, and that move has paid off, and perhaps that's what it takes to get him in the conversation

of not only one of the most skilled players, but one of the better players in the NHL. And I do work for NHL Network. Over the summer, it's compiling a list of the top 100 players, and he's not on anyone's list. And people ask me, who should be on there? I said, well, with his skill, with his talent, with his hockey sense and competitive nature me who should be on there. I said, well, with his, with his skill, with his talent, with his hockey sense and competitive nature, he should be on there.

And this year you're finally seeing it. He looks as good as I've ever seen him, especially I think he's got 12 points over the last five games. The way he controls the puck, you just assume that good things are going to happen when he's on the ice, but hasn't really had the supporting cast. And now with Horvat, it looks like that chemistry that those two guys have could propel them both to be point-per-game players.

I think that's the bare minimum, in my opinion, of what Matt Barzell should be, but sniff around that 90, 100 points and being the guy that you circle on the board every single time you play the New York Islanders, they don't let him touch the puck because in the past he can control it as long as anyone, but things don't really come to fruition.

It didn't result in goals and assists, but it looks like that's changing now. And he looks to be one of the more elite players that you see every single night. Hey, we happen to have you in our leaf sour here. So I got to ask, how's Engvall? How's the Engvall experience on Long Island? You know, it's funny everyone uh everyone's asked me that uh from toronto going back to last year and look the first thing i'll say is i understand the frustration you can have in a player like that because he's six foot five he skates like the wind and he's not a physical player and if you get that out of your head that

you don't expect him to be physical and try seeing him in a different light um i think you see a guy that's really effective and and the thing that stands out about him on this roster compared to the leafs is the islanders aren't a fast team and he's a guy that has a motor and he can skate himself out of trouble um and he's found a chemistry with kyle palmeri and brock nelson that they were sort of the de facto line one last year and produced a a pretty good clip i mean i don't know if uh pierre's going to be a 60 70 point player but uh where he's slotted in right now and what's required to him he brings an element that the islanders didn't have and i think he's more valuable here than he would be in other places.

He was a healthy scratch at one point earlier on in the year after a bad turnover. And since then he's been more productive. He's been a better player. But I do understand from a fan's perspective, from an analyst's perspective, you want more physically out of the guy with, with his physicality. But,

but his speed is something that really, really benefits this group. Hey, Thomas, really appreciate your time. I know it's busy for you. Have a great call tonight. We look forward to the game. You got it, guys. Good talking to you.

Thanks, appreciate it. Former National Hockey League defenseman for the New York Islanders, Thomas Hickey. You know, Engvall, if you ran into people, he's like a $6 or $7 million guy. I'm going to tell you. I love that. It's just the same thing we've always said. I don't know if this is going to surprise6 or $7 million guy. I'm going to tell you. I love that. It's just the same thing we've always said.

Listen, I don't know if this is going to surprise you or not. There are times this year I've missed Engvall. Yeah. Yeah. You can tell me the third line is not better. I'm not claiming. Instead of Robertson or whatever. I'm not claiming Engvall.

Not a cosine. No cosine. I'm not claiming. The first game he played, he was very good, very noticeable. And then for the second and the third game, he disappeared. Was that Butch? Butch Goring. Earlier this year or last year?

Last year. I will say this. When it comes to the Engvalls and the Kerfoot's, I'm not sure how far they can help me win a Stanley Cup for four rounds. They were pros. But they were pros. But especially Engvall is that there are times when earlier this year where he could have really helped. And if you would have taken Nick Robertson out and put Engvall in.

Well, yeah. Right? It's a big difference like we're talking about times when there's just heavy lifting he scored 21 here like i mean he's he's a big guy who can skate and thomas just mentioned it there's things that he could do like skate a puck out and i was laughing though as he said that he's like he can skate the puck but into trouble and in my head i was like and back into trouble and then turn around bring it back then skate through it again yeah yeah he is he he's the ultimate frustrating player because if

you had a like a skills contest with angval he might win every event he might be the fastest guy he might have the hardest shot he might do the most pull-ups he might do it all i'll tell you another guy besides angval out there not to completely derail this but uh-oh no kerfoot no flex foot what's what's our boy take a look at what he's doing in arizona it's i have no idea it's noticeable again arizona's do i want to do i want to battle four rounds with kerfoot being a buddy ot winner for the leaf. You can't slag him. I'm telling you, he's been good. I got to tip my hat to Kerfoot.

Couldn't give you one thought. Listen, I watched. No, I've watched. I've watched enough to see him go up on the power play. He's got, what does he have? 14 points? 15. Mid.

15. He's on pace for his usual 50 points. Let's talk about the Jays instead of, I don't know, Connie. I'm not doing it for you. I'm not doing it for you. I'm not doing this. I'm just throwing it out there. Okay.

He kind of caught me off guard, Thomas, a little bit with the, they have to win now. I look at this lineup and I'm going, like, where do you get, you have to win now with this lineup? You got all the old guys. Kyle Palmieri, J.G. Pajot. They have committed to Sezikis, Clutterbuck, Martin. Not young players.

They're all the same. They all interact between the second line and the fourth line. Brock Nelson, Anders Lee are what? 29 and they're not young players. Mid. They're better than mid. Are they better than mid? Not the Islanders. The Islanders are mid as hell. But those players I just named, Lee and Nelson they're better than mid are they better than the islanders the

islanders mid as hell but those players i just named lee and nelson are better than mid but their decor they've been without pellets who they need he plays a ton he's been out for he's on long-term ir uh pullock just went out you know they just traded by the way quietly a seventh rounder for robert bortuzzo six foot four 217 pound right shot defense you get a lot of why didn't the leafs trade for bartuzzo well that broke during our time capsule and there was other things other fish to fry and i looked at that even during that time was like couldn't have done a sixth right couldn't have beat that seventh. The only question is if some guys are starting to get healthy here and Lilligren's probably day

to day now. Yeah. So they gotta go get a bigger fish. They gotta focus on a bigger fish, Sammy. These little minnows. He's not little. No, just minnows is five, six, or seven depth guy.

Benoit and our buddy Raj Lajoie. Pretty good. Pretty good. I mean, what did he play on Saturday? It couldn't have been any more than 14, 15. What coach's line was that? Yeah, what did he have? Zero?

Oh, it was Daryl Sutter talking about the Pelican or whatever. Yeah, what did he have? Zero points? Oh, rude. What numbers did he wear? Oh, yeah. Rude. So rude.

All right, we got to go. All right, thanks to Thomas Hickey, who just joined us, helping us tee up the Islanders and the Leafs tonight. Next hour, we're going to welcome in PJ Stock, former NHLer, Habs, Bruins, Flyers, Rangers. We're going to get into a ton of it. Don't go away. More Real Kippenborn after these words.