Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Free Agency Reflections with Brad Treliving

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with their thoughts on Mitch Marner's introductory press conference with the Vegas Golden Knights. Then, they discuss Brendan Shanahan's role in Marner's unceremonious exit, listen to Vegas GM Kelly McCrimmon's comments on the team's process, and share their thoughts on the Leafs' moves on July 1. Later, Leafs GM Brad Treliving joins the show (27:40) to share reflections from the NHL's opening day of free agency, his process in the search for a top-six forward, if there are any regrets from Marner negotiations and what the team is getting in Nicolas Roy, Matias Maccelli and Michael Pezzetta.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

We are racing for the transition of the fan hockey show, the real Kipper and born show. This is our leaf hour edition coming to you for the next two hours. Sammy, you okay over there? What is going on? Borny sat in my seat for one minute and there's cords everywhere and I can't get organized. How do you feel over there because you just did a segment with Mike Fuda and Matt? Yeah, it's good. You're kind of on an island. You know, you feel a little isolated, but otherwise okay. Sam, you feel okay over there? Lonely. Oh, great. Yeah.

I've never known anything else. Did you save anything for us or did you give them all the good stuff? Buddy, I got it all. It's all holstered up and ready to pull out whenever something happens. Whoa. Wherever you're watching and listening live

on Sportsnet 590, the fans, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus, we're glad you're aboard Leaf Hour Edition and then in the national hour as well coming up Dan Murphy, Jason Greger, we've had of course plenty of oiler talk out there. Dan of course will fill us in with the Vancouver Canucks and in about half an hour we'll welcome in the president or I'm sorry not the president. They don't have one anymore The general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs Brad tree-living and one last bit of house cleaning here this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet three six five all right go JB we got well pick it up from the food a

conversation well we did the conversation yesterday about Mitchell We got well, we got with this pick it up from the food a conversation Well, we did the conversation yesterday about Mitchell signing in in Vegas. Yeah, and He made the trip out there. They had a press conference for him. Did you get to watch some of it? I saw a clip of him at the airport. I guess that's what they do Once he anybody comes off the plane and they give them balloons and there's cheerleaders Yeah, I mean, yeah, I can't say I sat there and watched the press conference I saw a couple of clips come across my Twitter feed and Relatively unremarkable. I'd love to be upset about anything. I'm not overly Sam. I think was a little more bothered By it's okay first

of all you know what it does to social media right the people like the the split whatever it is there's the lovers of Mitch Marner and then there's the haters and everybody gets to rip on them if they want for listen I've been ripping on him since he's brought him along since junior so I I wouldn't say I just did it on the way out so Mitch Marner oh yeah yeah you didn't rip him when he's a long, since junior. So I wouldn't say I just did it on the way out. So. Mitch Marner? Oh yeah, yeah.

You didn't rip him when he was a leaf. Oh never? No. Are you being serious? He just kept quiet. Oh yeah, for sure. But watching the press conference, and I watched the whole thing today,

I watched Kelly McCrimmon and Mitch Marner today, which was a bit of a chore if I'm being fully honest. I get the feeling that like, he couldn't get out of here fast enough That he he wanted to get the hell out of here as quickly as he possibly I don't know Yeah, and and that's that's now you're surprised at that. Oh, yeah. I am I am surprised I think it sounds like People are not surprised but affected by the idea that he had it in his head for a while, right? Four Nations, talking to guys there, talking about places in Vegas during the season.

You know, I think that's what irks some folks. I mean, from a fan's perspective, this past year was, and if I do say so myself, may be the best chance the Toronto Maple Leafs ever had to make a long run in this era. And listen, they got, you know, we can talk about their glowing day yesterday that they had in free agency, and you know, the Mathias Michelli experiment,

maybe you can talk about that. But like, to have the leading scorer of the Toronto Maple Leafs Talking about it at a press conference now being like yeah I was talking to Stoney and talking to Hiller and you know, they said Vegas was great It's like it's hard to not be like he was dreaming of Vegas since the puck drop that three got back reality No, it's just Sam. Okay free agency in professional sports has been around now for 50 years 100% I get that buddy moves everybody

Why is this any different? Why can't he be like everybody else and just pack up play the last year of his deal and move why Why why the the problem? I think is that they don't feel like he was fully committed to the team he was on had a career year at 102 points yeah career year imagine how good he did if he was bought in 130 maybe 140 sure I'm not saying that he wasn't bought in that's not the conversation I'm having here, but you know, it's human nature in those playoff games. Like he was good in game six when he set up Matthews for

that goal, but as soon as it starts to go bad, game five, game seven, he's like, you know, I'm starting to think about other things. It's like it's close to the end. It's just human nature. And it just hurts my soul that the guy from the area the guy that's from oh It played in the OHL Didn't want to stay with this team and he'd rather go play for the glass and glam in Vegas

That's why do you want that word? That's in a nutshell? So why do you want that more than this no different than anyone else? You ask an Islander fan right now for Tavares, it's like it happened yesterday. They are still pissed. For sure. That was seven years ago. And I think both parties are entitled to that frustration. It's just natural, but like, you know, get it off your chest. Go to his social media.

Oh, I did. Everybody can rip on him and then eventually you just, you have move on because he's there's gonna be a next one here Yeah, it's well, it's so you just said they didn't move on Long Island It's not gonna be like that that people move on. I just I guess this just kind of confirms What a lot of people were feeling yes that which he never wanted to be wanted to be here and like and okay people did hold out hope that if they somehow had some magic here, they find themselves in a conference final or a Stanley Cup final,

he would have changed his mind and everybody could have lived happily ever after and it just, it didn't happen. Can we, oh sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna say, you know, to put one defense for Mitch Marner here that I think holds some weight is that when you go give your first press conference with your new team, it's about your new team.

Yeah, I get it. And it's about, not about that team. And you also, you wanna offer something to that fan base, you know, the way that like, Pizzetta put out some pictures of himself in Leafs jerseys or Tabara's pajamas. No, but I mean that kind of stuff that he grew up like my point is people want to say, hey, I'm connected to this team

and they want to start connecting new fans. So, you know, for Mitch to start being like, I've heard great things. People say the area is awesome. You want the new fans to be like, okay, this kid is, you know, he's in these likes what we are. You just have him hanging out with all the players in the wise of the four nations

Dream row playing in Vegas during the most important season of Toronto Maple Leafs hockey in my life It does rub me the wrong way. Okay, sorry You know, it's like oh my my we talked about it with my West owner So we talk about it with Hillary like their first Nickname basis. You're not naive to think that it doesn't happen. You just don't want to hear it publicly I think that's probably bang on for sure. Okay. I do.

I get that. You're a super fan. I am. And there's a lot of super fans of this team. In fact, maybe the most super fans. Just played the clip to and I have a question off the back of this Mitch Marner clip to on his time in Toronto. You know, last year in Toronto or two years ago,

really kind of stuff, we didn't win, obviously. We didn't do what we wanted to do. Stuff started kind of going a little north, a little south, we didn't know what was gonna happen. A lot of trade rumors all last summer didn't know what was gonna happen in that regard either. And as soon as the year started up, we're ready to commit and play hockey

and see what would happen. But at the same time, we're willing to take it to the distance and kind of told Toronto that that was our plan. And I was so grateful to play there for nine years. I said it at my end of the year interview there that I took a risky pick on a small kid from Toronto that is forever grateful to be able to wear a Maple Leaf jersey and forever to be able to play

in front of some of the greats that ever wore that jersey. But just now, being a family man, a father, we thought our time was ready to look somewhere else and find a new home and find a new place to grow our family. And like I said, I'm so grateful to be here and so, so happy to be a part of this team. So the question I have off the back of that is he said one or two years off the top, right? And I saw our boy bunk is talking about this a little bit today on his show

about just the blame that falls For not getting anything out of this on Shanahan and the belief of like we're gonna keep going back to the well and like Everybody's safe. We're not gonna trick was that two years ago or is that three years ago that he said that Three years ago. I think two years ago was two years ago Boston or or no two years ago was when they lost to Florida in the second Round or three years ago. No, I guess it was three years ago. Yeah two years ago was Boston Boston seven games Pashinac over time cut to the backhand off from Morgan, right? Yeah

What is your question? So How much of the blame for the way that this is perceived is on Brandon Shanahan? And that's what I want to know because I think Mitch has taken it really tough right now, and I'm part of it fully admit that but I do think that the outgoing president and his lack of Not lack but like just not giving in to trading him and wanting to be right about this Really cost the least some futures here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he wanted to be right.

He'd rather lose and be right than, you know, be wrong and trade him, which is really frustrating as a fan. Yeah, it takes a takes a big man to admit that the plan hasn't worked and correct the whole sunk cost thing and just eat it like that. I definitely think that is a part of this. You know, the I think a good lesson is and then this isn't just trades and hockey. This is like if someone doesn't want to be in your life and you're trying to force it and making sacrifices to make it work,

you know, doing everything you can, it's like it's just it's not you can't control people. It's not meant to be. Mitch didn't wanna be here, and it probably shoulda done what the Islanders did with Dobson. Dobson started to press the Islanders, I want more, I got a new agent, and they just said, all right, we're just, we don't need you then, move on, couple of picks,

and the Islanders have a fresh wave of players coming. The Leafs coulda done something like that. But how would, for example, Kelly McCrimmon have handled that? Like, if you look back, if it was like him in Vegas, in the bizarro world, where he example, yeah, Kelly McCrimmon have handled that Like if you look back if it was like him in Vegas in the bizarro world where he's like not committing to being there Is no trade like he would have been a traded 100% 100% to to get to your back to your original question The majority falls on Brendan Shanahan the majority majority. And I mean, he's gone now,

but yeah, this was all under his watch. So yeah, he's gotta be a big boy and wear it. And he did, he lost his job, but he wanted to believe in this group to the point where he doubled and tripled down on it. And at what point, at what point should they have seen some red flags? At what point should they have had more concern

about where this was headed? Brad Tree Living's relatively new to this whole thing. So yeah, he's been here now a couple of seasons, but clearly he doesn't wear it like Brendan Shanahan because he's still here and he's getting an opportunity to fix a lot of things right now. But I look at the behavior of children and I don't necessarily look at the child first.

I'm like, where are the parents and what's going on with the parents and what are the parents saying and what are they doing to rectify this behavior? That's a bad dog, I wonder what happened with that dog. So ultimately, yeah, I think for sure Brendan wears a lot of this and at what point should they have identified where the tea leaves

were telling you this was heading? That's to me the miss is that there were concerns behind the scenes and I don't know whether you wanted to face them head on or you just brushed them under the carpet. I will always be amazed that like, you know, we've talked about the accountability and lack of accountability. The fact that everybody came back after Montreal will always stick with me. That Dubas was still around, Keef was still around, all four of the core guys, Morgan,

everybody just got to, and listen, they went past the first round of the playoffs the next year, I understand that, first time, whatever, but that year, when you still weren't able to trade Mitch, you still wouldn't be able to trade Willie. Like, I'm not even saying it had to be Mitch, but it just had to be one of them at some point. And the fact that everyone came back after Montreal

was insane to me. So that's maybe where it started. You know, so when I coached with Sheldon, and I say coached loosely, you know, I helped him do the coaching with the Marlies. I remember being in a playoff series, and after the first game, we had gotten walked through the neutral zone,

and he wanted to change our forecheck to something we hadn't done all season long, like game two. And I was like, I don't- And you told him you're crazy. No, well, actually, yes, I did. I told him, you know, this is not that makes no sense We're overreacting whatever and his point was just that in a short series You don't have time to figure out if it was just bad luck that your strategy didn't work

or you have to make the adjustments and assume that that was real information back to you and It's funny that so many years they thought the Leafs just got unlucky Yeah in the playoffs. Ah, Tavara's injury happened the one year. Ah, we couldn't get the goal-tenning this year. You know, they excused it away when they got the same information over and over. Yeah, they just didn't fall.

Next time they fall, like at some point, you had to have made the call and said, make a pivot here. Collectively, they had character flaws. It's like, you know, sometimes you look at marriages and there's like positives and negatives, right? Yeah. Sometimes they're upset,

sometimes they work against each other. Exactly. Yeah. But all of them had that same flaw. We kept saying, can you tape grit to this call? No, and it's like- How many times we had that call for six? Oh my God, you can't.

Four guys, four guys making $50 dollars and every single one come playoff time want to go around you and not through you And then you bring in all these guys you want to throw body checks in the fourth line go. There we go That'll fix it. It's like no no those guys aren't on the ice enough in the big moments for it to matter So did you want to hear anything from McCrimmon about the trade at all? Yeah, okay? I put three in there Well, let's do the first one Derek on the on the process to trade for Mitch clip one. You know with respect to Mitch We've had discussions with Toronto You know going back a long time where we would have been interested in acquiring

Mitch Marner we had discussions at the trade deadline that were initiated by Toronto where they were trying to do a trade that involved another team. We weren't able to make it happen. When Mitch indicated or it appeared that Mitch would be going to free agency, he was our target. He was the player that we wanted. And again, tying into why would you do that trade in advance, we wanted to eliminate other teams. We wanted to eliminate other teams, we wanted to be able to create a one-on-one relationship with his representatives in terms of trying to do a contract and that's how the deal came together. I've gone on record to tell you guys that if it was me I would have given Mitch Marner a window at the end of the summer to start the season,

but I would have given him a hard day to say, I cannot let you walk out the door for free here. Okay, I need, if you are not signing with us, I need two teams, four teams. I need something. You got to give me something to work with. Do you think they would have given that? Hold on. You think they would have given that?

I would have demanded it. This is the most sensitive camp and player on earth. I mean, you bringing up comments and press conferences from years ago that, you know, Tree didn't come out and say, you know, we gotta get this guy signed. It's like, if they had gone to him and said, give me two teams, give me four teams, I demand it. I mean, he might've packed up his ball

and then went home. Then pack up. I don't care. I don't care. Yeah, listen, I agree with you. That's right. But you were dealing with a live wire I agree with you. That's right. But you were dealing with a live wire. Stick with it.

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. All right, it's over. And they didn't show those stones. And I just talked to Dobson and Darsh. They did there. You're not, I cannot be embarrassed in this situation.

And Brad almost was. He salvaged Nick Wah, which was, I like him. And I think there's some good upside. I think as close as you can get to anything of substance, usually these things are like a fourth round or a fifth round or they got a guy with some upside here. 27 year old controllable right shot center who can play. Six four.

Yeah, he can play. He can play. So good on Brad to get something, but he came this close to mismanaging an asset that could have been regarded as one of the worst managed assets in NHL history. No question. Can I ask you about that three team thing that he mentioned there? Yeah. Do you have any insight on what that was?

Like, because I remember you brought up the Cowan thing. Yeah, the Theodore, I think, was involved before... It was before the season. Before the contract. But at the deadline, he alluded to the thing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. And it wasn't even close of Mitch being traded to Carolina or anything. He wasn't going anywhere.

Well, because he kind of alluded to that. He would have gone to... Because he talked about how if there was somewhere he was gonna go at the deadline alluding to his wife being pregnant that's a place that they wanted to stay and sign which is 100% fair I get that yeah but Vegas there was part of a three-team anyways so I just wanted to bring that up there was there was nothing for for the Leafs to think that they could they just won the Atlantic Division like I mean or they were on their way to win the Atlantic Division you're not taking your leading score, uh, where you're perceived as maybe the best window

to win a Stanley cup. It was their best window. Exactly. So they would have got crucified. Killed trading Mitch. Wow. If it was for Ranton, it wouldn't have been that was not happening. The rent and had 16 points and five games.

The time I'd mention this. The time to have read the tea leaves was when if you did your homework you would have known that he had all types of problems with Colorado and you could have possibly flipped him then. That was the only chance for Rantinin. Anything else on that? Nothing else on that. Yeah, no, we're good. So what the hell are Leigh's going to do now?

Yeah, time to look around the league. Tree who we're going to be joined by after the first break here. Let's just get a quick thought on where July 1st stood for you with what you saw out of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Brad Tree Living. I think Anthony Petrilli wrote an article in Maple Leaf Hot Stove about Free Agency last year and just how hilarious, the people who spent the most last year, the most money spent on UFAs last year at Free Agency. Four.

Predators, Kraken, Bruins, Blackhawks, Devils, Canucks. Those are the six highest spending teams in free agency last year. Yeah, and one made the playoffs. One made the playoffs. And not even close for the Preds, for the Kraken, like not even close, Blackhawks. So the point is, the Leafs didn't do anything bad yesterday,

which is a bigger risk than doing something, than the odds of getting some good on July 1st. So I'm okay with what they did. They took some kind of low risk, high reward bets. And now they're shopping for someone in a trade. Yeah, I just, I mean, I look at what the Kings did. Which deal do you wish the Leafs did that happened yesterday?

Name one. I guess Tanev. Yeah. Kinda. Like two and a half for four or? Or the taking Brock Bester. Or Death Guy? Yeah, I'd take Brock Bester too I would've taken Brock Besser. Or a depth guy? Yeah, I'd take Brock Besser too.

I'd take Brock Besser. At that number? Yeah, like... Uh, yeah. I don't know, he's another shoot first, slow-footed... Not to completely get off topic here, but like, how does the Vancouver Canucks go from we don't want this guy on a long-term deal, we couldn't even get a first rounder for him, to giving him seven years and 50 million bucks.

Besser said like day of he had full plans to not return and then they called him and surprised him with an offer and he was like, okay. Like at all they both kind of just went, all right. Cause they're like, what else are we gonna do? Yeah. Good question for our Dan Murphy who joined us at the top of the hour.

What's the relationship with Brock Besser and Quinn Hughes? I'm assuming very tight I don't know. I mean to American guys I don't think it can hurt can't hurt right can't hurt but Even with Mitch Marner in the lineup there were scoring issues here. Mm-hmm So Where's the scoring coming from? You know, I don't think there is dead in that regards as other people.

You know, Matthews scored 33 last year, a year after getting 69. It's not a 33 goal score. You know, like I think he can give you 50 next year. Here's another 20. Who's he playing with? Nice. And? It could be Michelli or Domi or...

Mogan? Certainly he needs someone else. Playing with nice and I'm gonna be Michelli or Domi or Morgan Certainly he needs someone else the one year he had Domi and Bertuzzi he outscored his pace then when Marner played on his line so I'm not too worried about him getting to 50 the You know the other guys are gonna get some of that Mitch opportunity who played what 23 minutes a game or whatever So I don't think they're fine. They need a top six guy I'm not saying they don't but I'm saying I don't think they're gonna be a bottom ten offense next year could be wrong But where is the where is that top six guy coming from you say that's a good question That's something you know, maybe we can ask Brad after the break

There are I think it was at Elliott this that mentioned Kadri now, no, I don't think that was no, okay But I saw that too and I got really excited about it. You did I think it was somebody That's someone you like, you know what without would that ease your mind a little bit if if Kadri finds his way back to Toronto Yeah, of course Absolutely 100% yes, it's interesting. suddenly have a lot of centers You know wah can can obviously do it and Lawton can do it and hell Lorenz has done it in the past of ours Matthews Domi can do it they got a lot of quantity lots of quantity Yes, me only they don't have me lander can do it. Yeah, we'll never know

We'll never know. I wonder if brew veil come like, we're gonna really try it this year. I hope they do. And then they just don't again. So if Kadri's out there and you're trying to now build a deal that would satisfy Calgary, I'm not even sure the Leafs have what it takes to do it. I don't see how it's possible. How about Cali Yarncroc, David Camp, Nick Robertson in-

What is there in your free years? Connor Brown Bracco in a second? A first, a second and someone. We don't have what first? No, I don't know.? No, I don't know. 2040, I don't know. 2028. You can only trade how many years in advance?

They have a 28. Can you go that far? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, you can go 29. They just, the last deal they did has a conditional 29th in it. Oh my God. Yeah, you can go.

They got their 2028 first. Isn't it kind of over for getting rid of all these first and second rounders Even if they are two or three years from now, isn't it time to stop that? Well, it's two different conversations You could say it is time. That's a good thing You could say it's time to stop or it's time to just get rid of them all like you have four years here Yeah with all these guys in the team. It's like With the guy you drafted, the guy you drafted in 2028. Boy, he's going to be a great third line center when everyone's gone.

When you're talking about like asset management, like you look Carolina took a lick for the Rantanen thing. They turn expiring Natchez and Jack Drury into Stankhoven Extended, Kay Andre Miller, and they have four first round picks the next three years. You know, it'd be nice to be good and have picks. You know, other teams have pulled that off somehow miraculously. So I don't know. I don't know when if you spend them or stop spending them.

I'm now at the point where like, maybe stop. What do you call it? Billy ball or Billy Bean Ball? Money Ball. Like we saw a little Money Ball yesterday out of Brad Tree Living. Yeah, do you think, yeah. This may be the only way here.

I am not a fan right now of any more top picks, no matter how far in the future they are, or Easton Cowan. I don't think I would put him out there right now for a cadre. No, I'm ready to see Cowan. I'm ready to let Cowan have a run at things and see if he's-

We should break. General manager's calling in in five minutes, so. Okay, Brad Treeliving, a lot of questions for the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs next on the real kipper and born show. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple,iprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee in a few minutes or shortly. Shortly. Brad Treeliving, General Manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs will join us outside of outside of leaf talk in general just with the cap going

up and all this talk about new money we didn't really see it yesterday did we yeah I don't know Ken how and saw it yeah okay let's pick up the conversation with the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs Brad Tree Living. Tree, thanks for joining us. I know maybe some Leaf fans, I don't know if I want to use the word disappointed or not, but there wasn't a major signing with one of the top free agents available yesterday to fill in maybe for Mitch Marner, but how would you have described your last 24 or 26 hours so far? Well, thanks for having me on guys first of all. your last 24 or 26 hours so far? Well, thanks for having me on guys, first of all. Well, it's been busy as it is on July 1st.

Really, I think this probably went, I think as we anticipated, and by that I mean the majority of players that we looked at as potential fits for us were re-signed to their teams, right? So it's one thing to speculate about who's going to get signed and who would look good. It's another for players to actually get there. So when you looked at that pool of players that we felt could fit into a spot for us, you know, if you talk about, you know, a top nine role, a top six role higher in your lineup, the pool became increasingly shallow from what the projections were.

When you look at who's a projected free agent on June 27th, that pool of players became a lot less on July 1st. And so we certainly were active in talking to, you know, a number of players and, you know, whether it be, you know, a number of players and, you know, whether it be, you know, not necessarily wanting to not seeing a fit with us or not wanting to come here or contractual requirements not fitting, you know, it I kind of thought it was going to go the way it did yesterday in terms of not being able to necessarily address, you know, with Mitch leaving sort of that offensive side of things

and got to that feeling really probably a week ago. And part of that was the reason we looked at a Michelli deal, you know, in terms of a player that can bring some, some offensive ability, a player who we think had a down year last year, and there's more upside there at a relatively inexpensive cost. So that's probably a summary of yesterday. And you and we continue to pick away at it here today and moving forward. Brad, thanks for coming on with us today. We really appreciate it. I wanted to follow up on the comment you had made yesterday in the press conference and

hear a little bit, like being aware in terms of looking to replace a top six forward, find someone to fit into one of those spots. What is the timeline or process for you of kind of, I don't know if you're calling around the league and you get a list Of guys who might be available. What is it the process look like and what do you? Expect that you know, I guess in terms of would that be something looking to do in the next week Is that a summer-long venture? How do you aim to fill that hole? Well the process for it just is once you're you know, once the season comes to an end, you touch base with every team in the league.

So you explain what you're looking for, they explain sort of what their situation is, so you have a pretty good handle after, once you've done your individual team meetings of what's potentially out there. It comes back to me at that point where there wasn't, um, you know, there wasn't a huge appetite for, for, for people to move players, right? Um, you have a rising cap. You've got a shortage, you know, a shortage of top players. You've got a lot of teams, whether the, whatever window they're in or whatever,

I should say, whatever stage their teams in, I think the league is in it. I would describe right now is everybody's trying to take a step, you know, everybody's trying to, you know, not necessarily throw a lot of people off off the boat. And a large portion of the reason for that is because you've got a rise in cap, right? There isn't there isn, we've seen in the last, really in the last number of years, when we've operated really in a flat or a marginal increase cap,

where people run into issues, right? And so now they've got to make decisions and move somebody out. There certainly wasn't that, there wasn't a lot of that going on in the league. Therefore, there's't that, um, you know, there wasn't a lot of that going on in the league. Therefore there's, you know, there's players that, you know, less players hit in the market, less players available and more people retaining their own players. So in, you know, and the, and the other piece with it is just

identify what we're looking, you know, I think I mentioned it the other day. It's just not as simple as saying, okay, Mitch has moved on. We're just, we go replace Mitch. To me, you kind of got to do that in the aggregate, right? The opportunity allows you is more cap space. And can you try to get more depth? Can you try to spread it around? Can you over the course of maybe a couple of moves,

replace the offense that's required or that you're trying to replace and spread that out throughout the lineup? So as far as timing, it's a good question. You'd like to do it yesterday. You'd like to do it today. You'd like to do it tomorrow. I don't know. I mean, we don't play here till October. Um, and, and, and the question people have asked you finished. I don't think you're ever finished, right? You're always looking to try to improve your team. You don't know when those opportunities are going to, are going to surface. Uh, if somebody gets into a jam, if somebody's, um, you know, whatever the

opportunity is, but you have a pretty good handle on what people are trying to do, what players may become available, and you just take that information and then, you know, you try to get out and whether it be through free agency or through trade, try to, you know, upgrade yourself and find players that could fit and provide what you're looking for.

You're listening to Brad Treeliving, General Manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Brad, just to put a bow or conclusion on the Mitch Marner story here, if you look back at your year and a half or two years whenever you showed up here, and looking back in hindsight right now, is there anything you would have done differently,

acted differently, pushed harder for maybe a list once you started realizing that he may not be coming back? Is there anything that you have learned throughout the process that could help you moving forward? Well, I think it's always great in hindsight to look back and say what you would change. At the end of the day, I don't think anything was going to change, right? You know, and again, I'm not going to get into the weeds on a blow-by-blow of the Mitch

situation. You know, I think Mitch is a tremendous player. Um, I said it the day I got here, he's a top player. He's an unbelievable talent. Um, you know, just look at his statistical, you know, uh, production since he's, since he's entered the league, his time at the Leafs, he was a great Leafs, um, you know, we approached Mitch's camp really even from the time that I got here about, you know, what his plans were.

You know, those were always to be a leaf, you know, at the appropriate time, excuse me, when we could. We approached them about engaging in a contract discussion, you know, they made it clear that they wanted to wait as you go through that process. And you get a, you know, if you've been in the business long enough, you have gut feels of how things are going to go. And by no means do I criticize the player. That's the player's right. And then you look

at other options. And Mitch negotiated a no-move clause, which is fully in his rights. So when we look at opportunities to move on or opportunities at potential transactions, at the end of the day, Mitch held the cards with those. And again, I'm not going to get into the weeds here of those discussions because I think those are between myself, his representative and the player, which I always think are, you know, I asked for honest conversation with my players and representatives and I, and those are held in confidence. But, you know, at the end of the day, there wasn't a path to a different outcome, despite looking at different opportunities or potential different scenarios. And so we are where we are. So you always retrospectively look back in anything

you do and how do you do it better? I don't know at the end of the day if there was an option or an opportunity that was going to work that was going to provide a different outcome. And I imagine just those basic principles that you just said with the no move apply to Morgan Riley and whoever has them in your lineup moving forward. Any any any Any conversation any conversations I have Will remain confidential so I appreciate the interest

I've got nothing that Try Brad yeah You are looking at a situation where power play one was Mitch was running the point now do you expect to see Morgan back running that unit well we're July 2nd so yeah but listen those are conversations we have every day right chiefs in here we talk you know he's he's we rear side by each here right now, as we look at different options and every scenario that you look at, you've got it on the wall with, you know,

what job opportunity are you looking to replace or what holes do you have and who's gonna do the different jobs? I mean, again, I come back to it is when with Mitch going away, you're not just taking a player and saying, OK, he's going to do Mitch's job. And so now you have to look at different opportunities. You got to look at different opportunities

for different players. A year ago, we didn't know necessarily if Matthew Nyes was going to be a fit with Austin and we don't know where there's going to be chemistry. So at the end of the day, what we look at now is how do we use the space that we have and certainly, offense is an area that's, we've got a guy who's gotten 100 points that's left our team. We think we've replaced a little bit of ability here with Michelli, but we've got to do more. And you know, all the different things that Mitch did, whether it be on the power play,

whether it be five on five and the penalty killing, that's, those are just areas we need to replace. So whether that's certain players in our team taking on more, taking on some different roles, and certainly looking to add to our roster to help fill that in. So probably a long way of answering. I don't know exactly yet what our power play, you know, how that's going to break down we have certainly some ideas and some options and lots of discussion on it and we'll see how the days unfold here moving forward as we get closer to camp so with Mitch Marner gone where are you on your DNA you still looking for a few

more molecules yeah it's surprising how a guy makes a comment. And I get it. Again, the whole idea of that comment, you know, we sometimes forget how the context or the context or the question was raised. And a lot of it was, you know, when I look back in the two years that I've been here, and listen, you get to the end of the season, everybody's emotional, right? You're losing game seven to the second round and it feels like you haven't, you haven't, you haven't made the playoffs in 10 years, right? So you have to take a step back.

My, my observation is there's a lot of good things that happened with our team last year. Now, in that particular series, at very critical moments, and as I mentioned, we were in some critical moments. Game six was a critical moment. Game six in Ottawa was a critical moment. But I found in the two years that I've been here, yeah, we were short some bodies in game seven in Boston, we lose two on an overtime or we lose an overtime game in game seven. We didn't have good games in game five and game seven here. I looked at as it doesn't get talked about, I don't think, but game three was a great opportunity to, you know, we're in overtime to go up three, nothing in that lead, but certainly the way

it ends in game seven, you know, in a critical area, critical moment, we need to be better. So that's where our DNA and it's not just airlifting in 20 new players and shooting everybody that's here. That's just, just, I get the emotional reaction from people. It's how can we be better? How do we improve? How do we improve mentally? How do we improve in those moments that are critical? And certainly, personnel is one,

preparation is another, mental toughness is another. So there's a lot that goes into it and you know I know the easy reaction is any player that's signed it gets stuck to DNA but just to give a little context of behind the headline of where it was what I was talking about without of that answer that's great stuff so we'll help you turn the page to the guys who are here like you you, Michele excited to see what he can do. Tell us a little bit about your expectations for Nick Wa why he was someone you targeted.

And then if you could just throw in a comment on Pizzetta, who I absolutely love watching play hockey, that would make me happy. Yeah. Well with, with Nick, I think Nick is, um, it may not be the big sexy name, but to me Nick's a player that helps you win. And if you're trying to be a winning team, you need, you know, we've heard Lou talk about it in years past. It's like building an orchestra. You need everybody in the right chair. And Nick was in a situation in Vegas where, you know, he's playing behind Eichel, Carlson, Virdal.

I mean, those are three pretty good centermen. But he's a big right shot centerman, can kill penalties, can play in a matchup role, can play against other teams best. And he's got a sneaky skill set. He's got good hands around the net. He gets to the net. As I said, he can kill penalties.

He gives us something in the middle of the ice that we didn't have. He's a right shot, penalty killing option. So right shot face off, strong side face off. So he gives us another option there. And really just to give you a little insight in your team building standpoint is, you know, we all get infatuated with one, two, three, four

in terms of lines and first line centers and second line centers, and probably 20 plus teams in the league are looking for the prototypical second line center. But a lot of what the game is, is in matchups. And, you know, I've used the analogy with Winnipeg and, and, you know, again, no team is perfect, but that's a pretty darn good team that won the president's trophy. And again, when you look down the middle of their ice, the middle of the ice for them, you've got Shai Flea as your number one. On paper, you've got Numistikoff as two and Lowry as three. But again,

it all comes down to deployment. And if you have somebody, when you look at our roster here right now with Nick Waw, that can take a lot of defensive heavy lifting, defensive zone starts, defensive face-offs and matchups. When you put those into a pot, it allows you to not get necessarily lost on your one, two and three, but spread out matchups and situational play that could free up different people,

whether you're talking about Austin, John, and Scotty Lawton. So when I look down the middle of our ice right now, I think it gives us a lot of different options. And like I said, he was, it was important. He was important player. He was an important player for us to get. It's a player that we've had a lot of interest

for a long time. So we're excited to get him. With Michelli, again, when we look at our roster and subtracting Mitch from there, I'm trying to look at the aggregate of how do we replace some of the assets that Mitch had. And one of them obviously was playmaking ability. And again, this is maybe a name that's recognizable to a lot of people. He's coming off a down year, had some injuries and fell out of favor and lost some confidence. But he's, you know, when you really dig into him, he's a guy who makes a lot of plays, you know, can retrieve pucks off the wall, goes into traffic, has

got really good vision, moves around the ice really well, but has the ability to elevate others in terms of, you know, making plays and, you know, the thought process behind it is we have people that can finish. A lot of play driving and offensive distribution is an area, as I said, with Mitch being gone that we were looking for. So we felt that this was a, the opportunity cost was manageable. And, you know, we've got some ideas where he'll fit,

but bringing in that skillset, we felt was something that potentially has some upside for us. And then with Tazetta, you know, he brings forechecking ability. You know, he skates real well. He's a very willing competitor, which I think you can never have too much of. And you know, he plays hard. He's a great teammate. You know, we'll see how it all sorts itself out here, but you know, he's a guy that is

never going to cheat you with effort. And it gets back to the comment I made earlier that, you know, you need you need all you need all kinds. When you're when you're building a team to fit in different roles. And so we're we're we're glad that Michael, Michael came to us and he'll give us some juice. Brad, we know it's been a busy 24 hours and probably will be for the next little while for you. We really appreciate your time coming on this show. Thanks for doing this.

You bet guys. Thanks for having me on and Happy belated Canada Day. You as well. You as well. Thanks for your time. I'm surprised you're working today Kipper. I thought the tires squeal after July 1. I'm not very familiar with that. You're gonna hear him real soon, don't worry. It's almost time. Brad Treeliving, general manager of the Toronto Bay Police and a real standup guy.

Yeah, he is. He didn't have to come on. He's like, it's free agency. A couple days in, he could have completely blown us off. I would have liked it that he blew us off because that would mean that he was in the middle of doing something. Remember when Alvin did that,

when he was signing Patterson or signing something? He didn't show it. JB, are you crazy asking him about three guys? Well, I didn't mean Michelli. I didn't mean Michelli. I just wanted... I don't think he's ever given an answer under 30 seconds. I opened the door.

I'm glad you didn't ask him the first question. We wouldn't have gotten any more questions. But all kidding aside, I thought his answer to DNA was excellent. That we just assume that it's just bodies moving in and out and it's not. It's the whole package, right? You needed some mutations from the current DNA. Okay, two-hour show. Just like that, our first hour's up, but we're sticking around.

We'll take it around the league as well. Still plenty news on free agency. Don't go away. Jason Greger. Real Kipper and Bourne. We continue after these words.