Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Front Office Friday

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with their takeaways from today's press conferences from MLSE President & CEO Keith Pelley, Leafs' president Brendan Shanahan and GM Brad Treliving. The...y get into what the overall address says about the team's offseason decisions - how Pelley factors into the front office hierarchy, attitudes towards a core four trade and other pressing personnel changes on the table. Later, Luke Fox (33:29) shares his takeaways from today's pressers, how Pelley's presence made it different from previous years, if firing Sheldon Keefe was enough change and the latest on the team's coaching search.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome on in to the Real Kipper and Boren Show. Nick Kipper, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and David Siss. Boom-ba. We are live and in color. Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6, Sportsnet 590. If you can't catch us live, download us at your convenience. And it is Friday, isn't it? Apparently.
Starting point is 00:00:34 Is it Friday? Yeah, quick week. Is it off the rails Friday? It is. I don't know what it feels like. We don't know what it feels like. No. But we do know in about 30 40 minutes we'll
Starting point is 00:00:45 welcome in luke fox from sportsnet.ca who was at the press conference today yeah that included keith pelly brendan chanahan and brad tree living top of the hour we're gonna find doug mclean apparently he's traveling so we won't have him on a zoom so he doesn't have to wear a sport coat for us it's nice he he told me the location he is. I can look at my phone, but he's traveling. Knowing him, he'll get a flat right during the segment or something. That's fine. We'll get entertaining Doug if that's the case.
Starting point is 00:01:17 We'll get really extremely entertaining Doug. He said, on the road from Chicago to Port Huron Sarnia. On the phone? Okay. Port Huron Sarnia. On the phone? Okay. Port Huron Sarnia. Okay. Slash Sarnia. Gotcha.
Starting point is 00:01:29 Yeah. Well, the most anticipated, I think, press conference in a while that kind of kept us, I don't know if guessing is the right word, but what would be said, how would they say it, all came to fruition earlier this morning with Keith Pelley, Brendan Shanahan, and Brad Treliving. We should have done it live. People watch it as a reaction video like the Manning cast.
Starting point is 00:01:56 We could have just watched it and judged it in real time. We'll do our best now, Ken. So let's want to go to some clips. You guys want to get some early thoughts out in terms of anything. Surprise you, not surprise you. For me, we got everything we thought we would get. What did you think, Hippie? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:02:14 I thought it was exactly the way I thought it would play out. Yeah. Where it was everybody's on the same page. There's some short-term goals because this team has to win now still. So it's not about long-term anymore. Overall, I saw, especially Brendan Shanahan,
Starting point is 00:02:39 to a lesser degree, Brad Treliving, two guys that would rather be anywhere but up on that podium like get me off as fast as you can they're very short statements the prepared parts right we're very succinct so Keith Pelley's the new guy he's gonna come in we've seen that kind of before with others like Richard Petty or Lewicki where they come in and they're like bluster yeah we're ready to go I want to win the Stanley Cup, and we're not going to settle for anything less.
Starting point is 00:03:08 And, you know, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, he did that too. What's that? He did that too. Yeah, he did that. What else is he going to say?
Starting point is 00:03:15 I guess my takeaway was, for one, to me, when everyone claims responsibility, that's what everyone is saying. You want to see accountability. You want to see people taking responsibility, be accountable. When everyone does it, it doesn't feel like anyone is taking accountability.
Starting point is 00:03:31 You know what I mean? Because everybody shares it. Shelby's like, I'm accountable. It's me. And Shelby and Shani said, you know, it was me. I'm responsible. And Tree says, it was me.
Starting point is 00:03:39 I'm responsible. And everyone looks like they've taken personal accountability. And it's like, wait, did no one just take accountability? So, well, that feels like shit. but what else are you supposed to do? Everyone said what they had to say. Sam, you got a few words in here and then we'll... I just...
Starting point is 00:03:52 I don't think that Brandon Shanahan expected to be there. Didn't feel like he expected to be there. Like, he's been so... In these other media press conferences that he's done at these end-of-year things, he's been so full of conviction and belief, and today it felt so different than it normally feels. What would you say?
Starting point is 00:04:17 His theme was impatience. You do hear. Did you pick that? A number of times he talked about how there's times to be patient. This is not the time for that. I just felt like he was, you're right right didn't want to be there well but sick of doing this same thing and a little bit tired boys that's what i got from i don't claim to know brandon shanahan well i competed against him i've had some beers with him i've i know him like i know a lot of people in the league, but to Sammy's point,
Starting point is 00:04:46 I've never seen that type of kind of projection from him. He is a very confident guy. He's got an aura when he walks in the room, and it's like that kind of got stripped today. And listen, he knows it. He's not dumb. He knows he's disappointed a lot of people, probably him the most. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:05:06 Himself the most. Ten years to try to bring a Stanley Cup might be one of the only things he's truly failed up until this point. And he's going to get another crack at it. But I don't think he's ever experienced anything like this in his life, anything he's ever done before. He looked like a guy that this was new to me. Yeah. But I don't think he's ever experienced anything like this in his life, anything he's ever done before. He looked like a guy that this was new to me, not succeeding. Can I ask you, because this press conference basically was just set up
Starting point is 00:05:35 for everyone to tell him that his plan didn't work, right? This is like an intervention. At the core. A provincial intervention. Not to use that word, but at the core of all these questions, they're all like, hey, man, this ain't working. We're worried about you. This ain't working.
Starting point is 00:05:53 Yeah. And this is your idea. Yeah. So what are you going to do? And he just had to sit there and kind of take it, I felt like. Yeah. I thought Keith Pelley came in and said, winning's our priority. That's what everyone wants to hear.
Starting point is 00:06:04 I thought Brad Treeliving talked like a human, which was amazing. He got up there and just said kind of his thoughts and where they're at. Chaney had a tougher role today. Listen, he ate a crap sandwich today. Let's be honest. But it's okay. He's a big boy. He can take it.
Starting point is 00:06:17 Today was just about, for him and to a lesser extent,ad just get it over with let's have it let's just give it to me but we did learn some things we didn't hear him say we believe in this core and it's going to be fine you know we're going to we didn't it's different than other years we expected him to not do that but all right well we'll get into some of those clips but uh we'll start with uh the new boss keith Pelley, on his opening statement. I will not make this a habit of participating in team operation news conferences, but this is different. This is the first time I've spoken publicly at a news conference as the CEO of MLSE. And with that title brings the heavy responsibility
Starting point is 00:07:09 of overseeing the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I relish in that opportunity. And at the core of that responsibility is the real reason I came back to Toronto, and that is to win. Good is simply not good enough. I can assure you that is the collective position of ownership. And when I asked during the interview stage, what was the definition of success to the owners? One of them immediately said emphatically, just win. I mean, I want to hear that.
Starting point is 00:07:56 I do. Do you really? I do, Kip. Good is simply not good enough. It should be on every. But he wrote that down. That's on his paper for sure. Oh, yeah.
Starting point is 00:08:07 I don't suggest that I have... If I was in Keith Pelley's shoes, I wouldn't do the same thing. Yeah. Okay, but it's just stating the obvious. Well, but he's got to state it. I know, I know, I know. But for me personally, and I'm sure there's a few Leaf fans,
Starting point is 00:08:21 we're beyond that. Like, no, it's not winning. Yeah, great, great observation. No, no, no, I get that. But listen, they're big. He's at the head of a huge organization. And, you know, you can try to talk about running a fluent thing or including everyone
Starting point is 00:08:43 or we want everyone to feel whatever. It was nothing. I don't think anyone wanted to hear about feelings or direction or whatever. They just want to win. It's all anyone wants. So he went up and said, well, we want to win. And everyone went, great. That's why we got everybody together.
Starting point is 00:09:00 Exactly. I've heard people less positive than I am on that, but I don't know. I thought, you know, he came out hot. Like, with that first opening statement, I'm like, okay, here we go. And then I thought, did he get you excited? Did he get you feeling like, I'm going to be different from all the rest of them? Listen, like you said, I've seen a lot of these, boys.
Starting point is 00:09:22 I've been through this. Yes. Like, I – He talks like he's 60. I might as well be with the amount of stuff I've seen over my years. Yeah. You know, he said the right things, but talk is always cheap in these things. I've seen the exact same thing said over and over in these things. So this is where we're at now.
Starting point is 00:09:41 Like, okay, it's not about this 45 minute press conference it's like what are you guys gonna do about it now yeah right that's the core god i someone tweeted something like we hear this rah rah winning is everything and then you hear in the summer joel edmondson extended that's the plan you know like what what's going to be different that's what you want to hear about the player personnel and we never got there did you get out of keith pelly anything on um on his feeling of bringing a team together yeah how to win a rider cup let's uh let's listen to clip two i've always believed that the formula for success is great skill combined with chemistry and unity and in the midst of facing adversity in the first series down 3-1, I got a full glimpse of the chemistry and unity that Brad and Brendan have.
Starting point is 00:10:37 I cannot comment on what has transpired over the last number of years, but I can tell you that chemistry and unity is the critical components that add with skill in order to be successful. And winning is winning the Stanley Cup. That's noteworthy, too. I actually took out the Ryder Cup part. What was he...
Starting point is 00:11:00 You know what? I wasn't paying attention probably as hard as I should have. To what? The Ryder Cup? Yeah. What was his golf comparison? Well, no. He was the president of the DP Tour. Yes.
Starting point is 00:11:10 And he had some involvement in the Ryder Cup. I don't know. It's not like he was Trevor Elman. No. It's not like he was Rory McIlroy. No. He has been a part of sporting success in a similar role where you're not Austin Matthews, but you're the one.
Starting point is 00:11:21 Yeah. Sure. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. Winning the Stanley Cup was a nice clarification. austin matthews but you're the one yeah sure okay anyway yeah um winning is so winning the stanley cop he put a lot of value in the the two games that got the leafs back into the series at 3-3 against boston yeah did you hear that yeah yeah that he's did that did that save jobs could
Starting point is 00:11:39 have one thing that so it's not so much pelly there but there are even shanee mentioned like you know these guys weren't here before and tree at one point was like i wasn't here before or whatever i don't buy that part of any argument like your job is to know what has happened before you we don't know i wasn't in the roman times but there are people who have done research on the roman times so they understand it you know like we need they need to have a thorough understanding of what happened before them that's their job now such a cop out just to say i wasn't here i don't know so pelly i'll give him some grace it's been four weeks yeah you got some grace to to really get into it tree's been here a year now there's no more i wasn't here i don't that still counts
Starting point is 00:12:16 that was still included in the time that you're supposed to be evaluating whether you're there or not yep agree but he did yeah he also mentioned that a bit too so i thought tree was bang on with most of it what most of what else sticks out well i think the numbers the the the analytics no i just thought and the the comfort he had in discussing the team and the direction they want to go felt to me like someone not reading a prepared statement or trying to blow smoke but just it was just a general i'm talking about the feel in listening to brad tree living talk the i mean i cut five clips i could have cut a few more the audio wasn't excellent at the you know talking about why he changed the head coach yeah but i thought the most noteworthy couple we can start with this one it's more about
Starting point is 00:13:06 the on the ice product but the the clip on the lack of playoff scoring to me was actually really good if we want to if we want to start there with drill event yeah it's a good it's a good question kevin we i think there's there is when i've when i've gone back now and and kind of looked at it there are some you know there's there are some similar touch points, right? One of them is we haven't scored enough. When I looked at this situation and spent some time over the course of the summer, is we wanted to try to... This team has scored in the regular season, hasn't scored in the playoffs.
Starting point is 00:13:42 We increased our scoring in the regular season this year. I think we were the second highest scoring team in the regular season hasn't scored in the playoffs we we increased our scoring in the regular season this year i think we're the second we're the second highest scoring team in the nhl we're the number one scoring team in the in in the east we increased i think our total goals for by 20 last year or this year over over the previous year one of the things i wanted to try to do is it wasn't total goals it's how the goals are scored in the playoffs. You score differently in the playoffs than you do in the regular season. So is it systematic? Is it personnel? I think most of us in this room would understand it's more difficult. You're defended harder.
Starting point is 00:14:14 You're played against harder in the playoffs. So we haven't scored enough. We haven't – our special teams haven't been good enough. And to your question, we seem to be turning the other team's goalie into the first star every night. That's what I text you guys. You're going to end up with a bunch of muckers. Just a bunch of guys falling all over the crease for Tuesday times six.
Starting point is 00:14:36 I actually just love that answer. It's a very good answer. I think it's the way I've heard it articulated the best, quite honestly. You know, the one thing that, like, I'm not a huge analytics guy, but you know where I want analytics is that when you compare the playoffs to the regular season, it's like just one or the other. And I don't look at the regular season as, like, just one blanket 82 games. Start giving me numbers on what your numbers are against legitimate playoff teams.
Starting point is 00:15:07 Love that. And who's good and who has better goalies. Don't give me, we scored in the regular season. Tell me where the goals came from against which teams. Because as we've stated over the last three years we've been together, half the league stinks. Yeah. Okay? So I want together, half the league stinks. Yeah. Okay?
Starting point is 00:15:26 So I want to know where the numbers are. How many goals during the regular season have you scored against non-playoff teams compared to the Bostons, the Tampas, and the good teams? That's the number that you need to focus on. Has someone given you something like this over the course of the year? Have you seen something like this? No, nothing. Nothing? You haven't seen it? Because you mentioned mentioned it a few times and it's very easy to get but i do know like if austin scored 70 goals i can tell you right now over half of them are against non-playoff teams well kip i hate to say that but that's the i know
Starting point is 00:15:57 but that's you know but i don't know where the cutoff line is yeah Yeah. Like Sam Reinhart, like I think Austin had six hat tricks this year. Six of those teams didn't make the playoffs. Yeah. Right. And I'm just, I'm just, if you really want to get down to it, it's,
Starting point is 00:16:17 there's a small core teams that can really look at themselves and go, yeah, we can, we can go deep here. You know, this is how you come up with a great idea to research, and it's a really good one. Which core players are performing better against top half teams
Starting point is 00:16:31 compared to the other guys? Someone out there, get me that information. Mike Kelly. Where you at? Where you at? Well, we'll find that out. That would be a kipper's clipper. There you go.
Starting point is 00:16:41 Let's get some details. You know, to kind of defend Keith Pelley a little bit here, like, you went and fired a coach, and that was, I'd describe it as low-hanging fruit. But outside of that, nobody really expected him to make a decision on Brendan Shanahan here. Yeah, they did.
Starting point is 00:17:01 What do you mean? Yes, they did. It's the reason why he turned around and said he's my president and he's a champion and he's that's it makes sense to keep him but i think plenty of people for keith pelly it makes sense to keep him yes right it does it makes no sense to send him home and you know lots of talk about brandon only having one year deal he hinted that might not be the case here but regardless you're really going to send him home to to collect a paycheck and it's a big paycheck guys yeah big one you think but i think this is a
Starting point is 00:17:38 situation of a two different circles of conversations here kipper maybe the people like everyone expected him to not be around anymore. Like, I think one of the biggest conversations right after they lost was like, well, that's it for Shanahan. That's it for this era of Leafs hockey. So tell me something. I get why he kept him, though. If it went today, if it was just Keith Pelley
Starting point is 00:17:58 and Brad Tree living up there by themselves, how would you have felt today? Okay. To be honest, going into the press conference wouldn't have felt that way but the way that brad trilliving handled himself today and the way he talked and the way he just my trust in him and it's talk is cheap but my trust in him went north went up yeah for this press conference and i would have felt differently i thought he spoke beautifully what's hard what's hard to shanny is like i do trust his decision making making i have
Starting point is 00:18:24 a lot of respect for him think he's you know by all accounts a good guy but there's a lot of emotions tied up in this now you know where a guy trying to hang on to his job who's partially responsible for the failures it doesn't quite feel like a fresh start and what about like if they change the whole philosophy does he still get the same credit that he would have if the core four thing had worked? Right. If they're like, for whatever, for example, they trade Marner and Riley are gone. And those guys are part
Starting point is 00:18:52 of the thing, or Marner and Tavares are both gone. And his whole philosophy was, the core four is going to work. It's going to work. If those guys get traded, you change the whole philosophy of the team. Is it still him getting all the credit? Like, I don't know. It depends on, like like how do you view this now we still don't know what he does no one really brendan shanahan when he signed uh 10 years ago yeah it started off with lewiki and then lewiki
Starting point is 00:19:19 fell off and then there was nobody outside of that so brendan got to go to the board on all the decisions right yeah now that's not the case now he's got to go to keith pelly so that's a major change in his in his role role so now do we get the sense that brendan and brad are going to work together, and when they have a big key decision, they go to Keith, and Keith says yes or no. We should add another step to these. We should add another step. It would have been nice to get a question about the hierarchy for hockey decisions.
Starting point is 00:19:58 I do think that there's been an evolution in the role of president, and I'm not sure what Brendan's role is supposed to be. Because initially, I felt like he came from the nhl and was taking a business job like president to me was a business role for a lot of these teams but now it feels like a hockey job so i don't really use hockey operations which what does that mean it means like running a hockey team is hiring a general manager and overseeing trains and the coaching philosophy and personnel. The operations to me isn't... Operations top to bottom for me.
Starting point is 00:20:32 Anything that operates the hockey club, I am the president. Okay. I believe you and I believe you. I'm saying I don't know. To me, I always thought of it as like, okay, how do we get the cheapest flights to Denver? You know, like that's the operation you call a travel agent yeah okay good to know that's what i thought brendan did
Starting point is 00:20:49 he called travel agents i don't know yeah anyway so that is um we haven't heard from shannon yet we haven't and i would say the i don't know if you want to do the opening statement first but clip to uh luke fox asked a very good question you tell tell me. Yeah, well, I mean, I think the biggest conversation in the offseason is about Marner and Tavares, right? And Luke asked a very pointed question about if he would be willing to approach them to waive the no-trade clause, basically, and this was the answer to that clip, too.
Starting point is 00:21:18 Thanks, Luke. I think it's important to state, as we've discussed, even since the season has ended, that everything is on the table. We will discuss everything. I don't think it serves the Toronto Maple Leafs in any fashion to discuss those things prematurely, to discuss those individuals prematurely. Our focus right now is on finding a new head coach, and certainly that new head coach will have an important voice as part of our decisions going forward. I'm just simply saying that whatever questions you guys ask us here today, generally speaking, are things that we're going to have to consider after
Starting point is 00:21:56 the things that we've seen. Brad and Keith are relatively new here, but I am not. And I have seen some of these things over the years. And again, I do believe there's a time for preaching patience, and I do believe there's a time where you have to examine some of the patterns that persist. So everything will be on the table. Not to get into any specifics today, I don't think that serves the Toronto Maple Leafs. So... Address the Maple Leafs. So...
Starting point is 00:22:26 Address the patterns that persist. So that's obviously talking about postseason failures. I don't understand the word prematurely. I don't think it helps us. What's premature about it? It's time to have the conversation. And patience too, right? That's a tough word to throw out to Leaf Nation. But he said it's not time for patience.
Starting point is 00:22:42 Which it's not. Which is why it's not premature. It's actually time to have that discussion. So I don't... But he did mention that there's also time to not make hasty decisions as well. For sure, but I think if you're going to strip down the politician later said answer...
Starting point is 00:22:57 Run it through a speak human omni... The answer is yes. And a yes. Well, he said, generally speaking, what you're going to ask us about, we're going to discuss. Yeah. You know, it's going to come up. But listen, it's... Little from Columbia.
Starting point is 00:23:12 It is. Again, it's stating the obvious. You go to any trade deadline on any team, we're going to look at anything that makes our team better. But they didn't say that in the past. In the past, they said, we believe we have what it takes in this room right here. We have it.
Starting point is 00:23:27 Yeah, but there was... But this time, you know what would happen if they would have tried that statement. Yeah, we lit them up. Oh, the fire and sweat. He's sharpening the knives. Yeah. So, you know, I guess the idea is they came out and they said they're going to do what
Starting point is 00:23:48 we, what they should do. They're going to talk about all these things. Talk about potentially moving some pieces. I guess they got to hire a coach. Beyond that, you're right, Kip, that it was kind of what you thought it might be. There were no huge shocks. I think if you're them and you're sitting back in the green room after the conference, you went, nailed it.
Starting point is 00:24:05 You know, we didn't get in any trouble. I don't think anybody's going, we nailed it. We got through it. We consumed the crap sandwich and didn't die. We got through it. Now let's just go to work, I guess. Yeah, I guess. You want to go to Brendan Shanahan on what we just did marner and to ours i mean he
Starting point is 00:24:26 kind of some more changes being needed just more further to kind of the the clip two there if you want to play clip three that's that is the difficult question um that we've we've looked back and had different experiences where if you were to if you were to just live in a vacuum and and just view this one playoff you may have a different view of our team and the optimism and the and the closeness of where they were but we can't think that way now after seeing what we've seen year after year after year and that's where i'm saying that i i do believe that there's there's a time where the right answer is patience and then there comes a time where you have to say that that you have new information to you the information has evolved and you have to adjust your way of thinking so more alluding to the fact
Starting point is 00:25:11 that things have to move yeah i thought a large portion of the press conference that interested me was the injury reports you guys want to discuss those uh did they get pushed on it pushed like there were people clamoring to figure out the injuries i wanted to know didn't you i know you wanted to know i'm just sitting there going i would have avoided it like the plague every year though they these people report what happened to their guys yeah um william neilander we knew severe migraines i think they called them ocular migraines. Austin Matthews was sick for a bit and then head injury issues. So concussion-like symptoms, I believe.
Starting point is 00:25:52 Okay. No. And he was only cleared for game seven. Yeah. Okay. We don't know, right? Still, like you didn't. We just don't know.
Starting point is 00:26:04 Maybe concussion, maybe not. I don't know. If it's a concussion, why wouldn't they just say it? Because they're not sure. So you can couch it with symptoms. I think if you say concussion, then you probably would have had to go through some sort of protocol that they didn't go through. But yeah. Joe Wall?
Starting point is 00:26:19 So here's the one I don't like. Joseph Wall. I heard them all. I heard all the things. i was like mcl sprain was joseph wall bad back sprain back spring back i'd rather have a sprain back than a headache yes i don't what i'm saying like sprain back to me is a sprain back headache when you're not sure if it's a concussion or not is like come on bud which one the head you think you should play with the head i'm just saying if it's
Starting point is 00:26:53 i think he should have found a way to kind of push himself through it i do wow i do yeah i mean these and i'm not unless you're defending if it's not acussion, to me, at least a sprained back, it's there. It's a sprained back. Maybe you've got a concussion. Maybe you don't. I've played with headaches before. Headaches is severely minimizing what it may be. If you had a headache, you'd take aspirin and play.
Starting point is 00:27:22 I'm saying it's an easier sell. A sprained back is an easier sell than a headache. That's all. Not to me, because it's not a headache. Okay, then why are you telling me that you have a problem with a sprained back? Because I think a sprained back is a physical ailment that you can play through with drugs and heat and everything else. We're saying the same thing, but we've got opposite sides on it.
Starting point is 00:27:41 For sure. Headache to a back. Well, there's nothing to, you know no you can't put ice or a heat pack or take something like when you're foggy and sick because your your brain's not right but to me a physical ailment that's funny we do not agree that's funny is it wow i'm like find a way to get through a headache and you're saying find a way to get through a sprained back yeah no it is my back is the back either way people think we're animals yeah i can tell you that but the game's an animal yeah okay this is what you need this
Starting point is 00:28:10 is the way you play the game right this is the culture of the game yeah okay we put people on pedestals that aren't supposed to play but play what a warrior that's how you win in the playoffs this is what you need. This is leadership. This is, that's the way we've talked about this game for generations. Because people do put their physical body on the line for their team. That's how you get a statue. It is. I would love to talk to teammates of these guys and be like,
Starting point is 00:28:39 anything that doesn't bother you at all? What do you think? I think probably. Yeah. Would you like to hear Ratcher Living talk about the goaltending for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Yes. Okay.
Starting point is 00:28:48 Clip five, please. Joe, I've got faith in Joe. Now, like everybody else, there's questions. There's questions that, you know, why the biggest question with Joe is he's gotten injured a lot. We have to dig into that. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes bad luck happens. Is there a training
Starting point is 00:29:08 issue that we have to deal with? Do we need to change something in his off-ice routine? All those things is what we have to dig into. I believe in Joe as a goaltender. We have to support Joe. Ilya's contract's up, but we certainly have to try to put ourselves in a position where we're not, that we don't have the second-best goaltender in each of these series.
Starting point is 00:29:33 But I think it's a function of both sides, not just our goaltending, but what we do to make things difficult on the other team's goaltender. They got to go get a goalie. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Like, if the list wasn't long enough
Starting point is 00:29:47 now samson i wanted just like his contracts out no further comment his contracts out yeah that's all you need to know so he's not coming back but by the way uh the guy sent me i got the stats already on the guys against playoff and non-playoff teams we can talk about it later okay yeah thanks to josiah Bosch for that. Oh, there you go. Our guy. Yeah. How good of a goalie do you need now?
Starting point is 00:30:11 UC Soros. I don't mind paying him 5.5 for next year. I mind everything after that. Now the question is, is Joseph Wall, if you think you can solve him not finding ways to be hurt then it's not sorrows okay who is it i don't know why is it because you because because sorrows is coming to be the goalie for the next three or four years and joseph wall will never be anything more than a backup that's why well yeah but i Soros, if he's a free agent
Starting point is 00:30:45 and you're kind of playing that year as a buffer year, you have your, I don't know, you have a pretty good goalie duo. And they have the guy in the minors as the Askarov kid that's like their goalie of the future. Trot said they maybe want to pay Soros. I don't know if that's true or not, but to me, that's a massive target for me. Markstrom, he was getting shopped.
Starting point is 00:31:06 Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Calgary won't trade with Toronto. Why is every guy that at least want to trade for Calgary? I don't know. So many guys that would have fit here this year. Yeah. But clearly that has to be addressed. And we've had this conversation.
Starting point is 00:31:24 How does a guy find a way to get hurt all the time like this bad luck is it just bad luck i you know i suppose it is and but like people are made differently we have different physical constitutions and some people are a little bit more hardy for whatever reason he doesn't he seems to have pigeon bones i don't know i hope he figures it out there are cases in NHL history where players have long runs of bad injury luck and then they kind of figure it out remember Crosby's concussions we were like this guy's never going to play a full career guy that i mean that him sorry him missing game seven it just that shook the shook the trust to the core and i wonder like could he have played two days later seven, it just shook the trust to the core.
Starting point is 00:32:05 And I wonder, like, could he have played two days later? Like, is it just one of those things that it was just a tweak before game seven? It was too quick a turnaround. Flew, got on the plane. Point three seconds to save a shutout. But it wasn't the knee. No. Everyone thought it was the knee that he kind of bent over.
Starting point is 00:32:23 So it was later in that game. Maybe it was a different thing than that. Well, why couldn't it have been that play? I don't know. I'm not a doctor, pal. I was saying that Willie should play with eye migraines. We clearly are not doctors either. Everyone thinks we're Neanderthals, but.
Starting point is 00:32:35 Yeah. We are. Yeah, you're right. We are. Anything else from those clips that you see there that you're interested in? No, but we got to come back after the break. Sure. We'll get Brad Tree Living's thought on a coaching search
Starting point is 00:32:48 and the latest on Joel Quenville and the thought that maybe he could be back on an NHL bench as early as next season. Oh, okay. And Luke Fox all after the break. Don't go away. Oh, wow. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective.
Starting point is 00:33:07 Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kipper, Justin Bouroren, Sammy McKee, and our Leaf edition hour of the Real Kipper and Boren Show. All right, we go to Luke. I thought we were doing Luke at 440. It's 438.
Starting point is 00:33:34 Oh, is it? Okay, let's go to Luke. Luke, how are you? I'm doing okay. Okay. I think I might be done with Leaf press conferences until we go meet Craig Berube or something in a week or so. Okay.
Starting point is 00:33:49 You tell me where you want to start on what you saw and what you heard this morning out of the three bigwigs from the Toronto Maple Leafs. Well, I think you hit it right there. I think just the fact that there were three and not two. For once, Brendan Shanahan was not the most powerful man sitting up at the dais you know uh i i think keith pelly's presence and he said hey i'm not going to make a habit of this i'm not always going to be here but just him showing up made it feel like there was some weight to it. You know, he said the things people expected to hear,
Starting point is 00:34:26 like, I want to win a Stanley Cup, and nothing below that will be satisfactory. Like, that's what ownership wants. That's what I want. We want to win. But just his presence kind of diminished immediately Brendan Shanahan's role. So he's sitting there,
Starting point is 00:34:42 and suddenly he has a flesh and bone boss that he reports to someone we can see not this, you know, faceless board that he reports to. So, you know, I, I think the other thing was,
Starting point is 00:34:57 is he going to can Brendan Shanahan right away? You know, he's had 10 chances to build a team that goes deep and hasn't got it done eight legitimate chances in terms of a roster that has made the playoffs and i think that was the big question is he gonna fire shanahan um obviously he's not he's sticking around but for the first time in a long time, it felt like Shanahan's power is diminished and his job is very much on the line. Luke, what did you take away as,
Starting point is 00:35:31 oh, and I hate this corporate buzz speak word, actionable items from that press conference? Like what is going to happen to the Leafs roster? What did you take away for actual tangible change that's going to come? Well, they said everything is on the table so i i think that actually should include a conversation with mitch marner and john tavaris they hold a lot of power here and the fact that they negotiated no move clauses they earned that through their
Starting point is 00:35:57 negotiation i'm pro player like if you get everything you can so So they have that. But we've reached the point now where they finally realized the core five isn't working. Like that's finally sunk in. And time will tell. I'm afraid for Leafs Nation that maybe they've figured this out too late because the players have this protection. But at least they're going to have that conversation with them. I think they will talk about that. The other thing is, I think they realize Samsonov is gone. They want to change Joseph Wool's training habits
Starting point is 00:36:32 over the course of the summer to hopefully turn him into a goalie that can stay healthy. They love the guy. They love his mentality. They love his positioning, his calmness in the net. And I would agree with that. But what good is that if your season's on the line and he's up in the net and I would agree with that but what good is that if your season's on the line and he's up in the press box because he's too unhealthy to play so I think they want to take a look at how he's training hopefully get him on a healthier regime they're going to have to
Starting point is 00:36:57 find a tandem mate for him that's an actionable item because Samsonov's not coming back and they're going to have to build a blue line and they're going to have to find more guys that are playoff ready, that are playoff reformers. Bradshaw Living said something really interesting. He said our goals in total got escalated. We're growing that number.
Starting point is 00:37:18 But he's looking at the how we score goals and the how has gotten worse. Do they need to do something in the off season? Can they, can they look like the same team come September and training camp? I don't, I don't think they can.
Starting point is 00:37:36 I think they need some bigger changes just because when imagine those guys all reporting into camp in September and yeah, there's going to be a new voice in terms of the head coach. But when the going gets tough, are they going to start throwing gloves and bickering with each other because it's the same faces that have had so many disappointments? Or are they going to feel like there's a refreshed sense of new energy amongst the roster? Not just amongst the coach, not just the new GM, but actually the guys they're, you know, quote unquote, going to war with every day.
Starting point is 00:38:10 I think that there needs to be a reset there. I don't think it would fly. Yeah, and you hope it's not like in March, they're like, you know, we're going to do the deadline. Like it would be nice for the team to have a fresh feel going into the season. So then the question becomes, what is your
Starting point is 00:38:25 sense or understanding of how the hierarchy works you know we were talking earlier in the show about brendan shanahan's role in the hockey decisions we want this player we don't want that one you know do you think he's heavily involved in the day-to-day decisions on you know this is who we want to play or is that really tree living? Oh, like the roster? Like who they're dressing? Well, who they're dressing, who they're trading for. Like how much is the actual personnel Shanahan related? My sense is who they're trading for, absolutely.
Starting point is 00:38:58 Yeah. Yeah, that type of stuff. As in, oh, we're going to help these scratch David Camp tonight. I don't think it goes that that deep that granular i would i would like to think not i would like to think he trusts trade living to handle that type of stuff but yeah mitch if are we going to have a mitch marner trade conversation for sure shanahan's involved in that now i think i got my sense was keith pelle wants to be a little hands off and them do their thing, but he's going to be keeping a much closer eye on what they do
Starting point is 00:39:28 than the board did, which is who Shanahan used to report directly to. Gotcha. We're talking to Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. Regardless if they go to John Tavares to lift his no move this summer or not. Do you fully expect that in his last year of his deal,
Starting point is 00:39:51 a transition to captaincy, do you expect him not to be the captain next year, even if he returns? I expect that to be a conversation. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not so sure. I'm not certain it's going to go one way or
Starting point is 00:40:05 the other but i actually think you know what in being around john these last couple years he often defers to austin matthews like he's one of the best players in the world he's the engine that drives our team so i he's a smart guy i think he knows that he's no longer the alpha dog. And I got to give some props to him. I love the fact that he's dressing up for Hockey Canada, you know, and going over there. He's fighting this. You know, he's fighting father time. I think deep in his mind, he's like, maybe I can make the fourth line of Team Canada and the Four Nations Cup.
Starting point is 00:40:43 I think he's that driven. Now, whether that's realistic, that's up for debate. But he is not going to go down without a fight. But in terms of the captaincy, I think there's a way that this could be a smoother transition than some people realize, because I think Tavares has already conceded that he's not the main guy here anymore. So Sheldon Keefe has moved on and there's an open coaching position what are you hearing about sheldon is there any opportunity for him elsewhere and what
Starting point is 00:41:11 about potential replacements for him you know where do you have it sort of narrowed down to a handful of guys you expect yeah for sheldon i'm hearing jersey um which would be really fascinating but it's it's entirely his choice. You know, he's got a great, he's got it made, right? He's got the soft landing. He's getting a raise coming up, and he doesn't have to coach a day of that raise if he doesn't want to. So there could be a chance where he jumps in,
Starting point is 00:41:42 stays right in the league and say, hey, I want this. I thrive off this. Or he can take a year off. You guys know how this business is. You know how quickly coaches get fired. Maybe there's an even better opportunity that pops up midway through the season, or he takes a full year off, just be as a dad, collects his paycheck, and then looks at the landscape then.
Starting point is 00:42:01 So he's in a really nice position, which might explain all the the smiles in his farewell video that he shot um and as for the the leafs coaching position i am hearing that craig brew raised the front runner uh i checked in with with someone who would know and you guys maybe should follow up with doug on this one because he's the gerard glant whisperer uh to my knowledge he hasn't yet been contacted for an interview but I think he would be and should be a person of interest I don't think they want to uncover some new upstart coach I think they're going to get a familiar voice whoever it is
Starting point is 00:42:36 I wonder if the Leafs have enough power to talk the NHL into reinstating Joel Quimble. I think if there was no baggage, he'd probably be the perfect guy just because of the presence he commands. I think that this group needs a voice that comes in there with some heft to it, a guy that they're going to listen to and respect, and preferably with a ring on his finger or some deep runs on his resume.
Starting point is 00:43:07 But right now, yeah, it seems like Berube is the front runner. I hope they interview multiple guys. My understanding is Kyle Dubas didn't interview a single other person. He just handpicked Sheldon Keefe. And if they just handpick Berube the way Shanahan handpicked Trey Living without really doing a thorough search. I think that's a mistake.
Starting point is 00:43:27 I think they should take their time and maybe they should wait to see how this Carolina hurricane series shakes out. Maybe they get swept. You want a coach that's been swept two years in a row. I want a coach that gets his guys to take 50 shots and tries to bring his sturgeon down. We'll keep an eye on the coaching carousel. Hey, Luke, thanks for doing this, man.
Starting point is 00:43:54 Okay, thanks for having me. Thanks, Luke. Luke Fox. So Luke mentioned Joel Quenville. Now the word I'm getting out of the National Hockey League is that his future is undecided as of yet, and they have not ruled out Joel Quenville coming back as early as next season.
Starting point is 00:44:14 Now, I'm wondering if that's the influence of the Toronto Maple Leafs saying, we're opening this up, and we'd like a chance to talk to Joel Quenville. Sammy, how did your poll go? Hmm. Funny you asked. So McKee put out a poll to Leafs Nation.
Starting point is 00:44:30 Would you be okay with Joel Quenville as the head coach of the Leafs? A couple thousand votes. In 24 hours, just over 2,000 votes, 52.3% of people said yes. Wow. 47.7% of people said no. Wow. 47.7% of people said no. That's tight. Mm-hmm. That is...
Starting point is 00:44:50 You know, for a guy who's won three Stanley Cups, that's obviously reflective of people's comfort. When did he last coach? Florida. Yeah, what year? How long ago? 21? Was it three years ago?
Starting point is 00:45:04 Yeah. That's a long time. Well, I think the best point from yesterday was just, you got to tell him he can either coach or he can't coach. You can't leave him kind of dangling. Like, you can coach in two years. It's a five-year ban. You can coach.
Starting point is 00:45:17 He didn't answer. He coached seven games with the Florida Panthers in 21, 22. His record at that time. Can you... His record at that time was 7-0. They were 7-0. Any worry or thought that, like, it's been a while here, and would you be getting the same Joel Quenville
Starting point is 00:45:41 that is second in league history? Has he... same Joel Quenville that is second in league history? Has he, you know, the things that he's gone through in the last three years, is that going to affect the way he coaches? Is it going to affect the way players look at him? Is that not a conversation that you need to have? Absolutely. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:46:01 I don't know how you don't have that conversation. I think the perception, like the younger league, you know, the way guys maybe look at him, the way maybe people talk about him, I don't know how you don't have that conversation. I think the perception, like the younger league, the way guys maybe look at them, the way maybe people talk about them, I don't know. It might not be a slam dunk that this is the right hire. You think you're getting Stanley Cup champion and all of that pedigree, and you can, but is it still there, though? Is it still there? And then the media perception.
Starting point is 00:46:27 I just don't think, you know, we talked yesterday. I think it was about the difference between X's and O's guys versus motivational run-through-a-wall guys. Like, everyone's pretty similar, X's and O's, fairly. Like, not entirely. But, like, does it take away from Quenville's run-through-a-wall for that guy if you feel like some of that reputation is tainted and so maybe you're not getting what you think you're
Starting point is 00:46:50 getting in him and then maybe it's just not worth it you know and i do think someone would take a chance on them but the leafs are at a pretty pivotal point in their franchise here and it'd be a weird hire for me but i mean pelly said multiple times that the only priority is winning is winning and to be honest like that's that's good i think for fans that they're going to prioritize winning but i don't just wait he meant at the cost of 31 teams prioritizing that right come on no not the sharks yeah you know yeah no i're i'm just saying like they he kept bringing it up over and over and over and over and if you're trying to be this cutthroat you think you'll do anything to win boy that's doing anything to win and that's a dicey one especially in this market i i
Starting point is 00:47:36 the more i think about it the more i don't want it yeah it's it's just he's been away a while i don't know this feels a little crazy do you want a tree living clip on the coaching search yeah let's have it clip one tree living um listen there's some there's some good coaching candidates out there we we intend to explore them i'm not going to get into specific individuals. As far as the timeline, Terry, we want to be thorough, but we also understand there's other openings. You know, it was a difficult day yesterday. You know, and I think the process that we went through up until the buck went in the net Saturday night,
Starting point is 00:48:22 we're doing our focus is solely on trying to win that series. And then you go through all the stages, right? I believe you've got to step back. You don't want to make emotional decisions, and it's been emotional. It still is. So I wanted to deal with Sheldon properly and really be clear and think that process through, spend some quality time with them. And then once that decision was made, get on to the next step.
Starting point is 00:48:51 So we began that yesterday. You know, we're not waiting. We're going to be thorough. This isn't something that's going to be hastily done, but we certainly know that there's some quality candidates out there, and we want to get to them as fast as we possibly can. Got to think by next week, they'll name a head coach.
Starting point is 00:49:12 There will be a new coach at the Toronto Maple Leafs next week. Oh, I'll have something to talk about next week in early fire. Yeah. Odds on Craig Bruby? Not that I'm saying that's my choice. McClellan, I can see. Yeah, I can see.
Starting point is 00:49:26 Oh, yeah? I do. Yeah. What do you think? I think it's flip a coin between the two of them. Wow. Yeah. Only they know right now where they're leaning towards.
Starting point is 00:49:38 All right. Our thanks to Luke Fox from Sportsnet.ca. After the break, it's Doug McClain off the rails Friday. Don't go away

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