Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Front Office Friday
Episode Date: May 10, 2024Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with their takeaways from today's press conferences from MLSE President & CEO Keith Pelley, Leafs' president Brendan Shanahan and GM Brad Treliving. The...y get into what the overall address says about the team's offseason decisions - how Pelley factors into the front office hierarchy, attitudes towards a core four trade and other pressing personnel changes on the table. Later, Luke Fox (33:29) shares his takeaways from today's pressers, how Pelley's presence made it different from previous years, if firing Sheldon Keefe was enough change and the latest on the team's coaching search.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
Transcript
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Welcome on in to the Real Kipper and Boren Show.
Nick Kipper, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and David Siss.
Boom-ba.
We are live and in color.
Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6, Sportsnet 590.
If you can't catch us live, download us at your convenience.
And it is Friday, isn't it?
Apparently.
Is it Friday?
Yeah, quick week.
Is it off the rails Friday?
It is.
I don't know what it feels like.
We don't know what it feels like.
No.
But we do know in about 30 40 minutes we'll
welcome in luke fox from sportsnet.ca who was at the press conference today yeah that included
keith pelly brendan chanahan and brad tree living top of the hour we're gonna find doug mclean
apparently he's traveling so we won't have him on a zoom so he doesn't have to wear a sport coat for
us it's nice he he told me the location he is.
I can look at my phone, but he's traveling.
Knowing him, he'll get a flat right during the segment or something.
That's fine.
We'll get entertaining Doug if that's the case.
We'll get really extremely entertaining Doug.
He said, on the road from Chicago to Port Huron Sarnia.
On the phone?
Okay. Port Huron Sarnia. On the phone? Okay.
Port Huron Sarnia.
Okay.
Slash Sarnia.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
Well, the most anticipated, I think, press conference in a while
that kind of kept us, I don't know if guessing is the right word,
but what would be said, how would they say it,
all came to fruition earlier this morning with Keith Pelley,
Brendan Shanahan, and Brad Treliving.
We should have done it live.
People watch it as a reaction video like the Manning cast.
We could have just watched it and judged it in real time.
We'll do our best now, Ken.
So let's want to go to some clips.
You guys want to get some early thoughts out in terms of anything.
Surprise you, not surprise you.
For me, we got everything we thought we would get.
What did you think, Hippie?
Yeah.
I thought it was exactly the way I thought it would play out.
Yeah.
Where it was everybody's on the same page.
There's some short-term goals
because this team has to win now still.
So it's not about long-term anymore.
Overall, I saw,
especially Brendan Shanahan,
to a lesser degree, Brad Treliving,
two guys that would rather be anywhere
but up on that podium like
get me off as fast as you can they're very short statements the prepared parts right we're very
succinct so Keith Pelley's the new guy he's gonna come in we've seen that kind of before with others
like Richard Petty or Lewicki where they come in and they're like bluster yeah we're ready to go I
want to win the Stanley Cup,
and we're not going to settle for anything less.
And, you know, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, he did that too.
What's that?
He did that too.
Yeah, he did that.
What else is he going to say?
I guess my takeaway was, for one,
to me, when everyone claims responsibility,
that's what everyone is saying.
You want to see accountability.
You want to see people taking responsibility,
be accountable.
When everyone does it,
it doesn't feel like anyone is taking accountability.
You know what I mean?
Because everybody shares it.
Shelby's like, I'm accountable.
It's me.
And Shelby and Shani said,
you know, it was me.
I'm responsible.
And Tree says, it was me.
I'm responsible.
And everyone looks like they've taken personal accountability.
And it's like, wait,
did no one just take accountability?
So, well, that feels like shit. but what else are you supposed to do?
Everyone said what they had to say.
Sam, you got a few words in here and then we'll...
I just...
I don't think that Brandon Shanahan expected to be there.
Didn't feel like he expected to be there.
Like, he's been so...
In these other media press conferences
that he's done at these end-of-year things,
he's been so full of conviction and belief,
and today it felt so different than it normally feels.
What would you say?
His theme was impatience.
You do hear.
Did you pick that?
A number of times he talked about how there's times to be patient.
This is not the time for that.
I just felt like he was, you're right right didn't want to be there well but sick of doing this same thing
and a little bit tired boys that's what i got from i don't claim to know brandon shanahan well
i competed against him i've had some beers with him i've i know him like i know a lot of people in the league, but to Sammy's point,
I've never seen that type of kind of projection from him.
He is a very confident guy.
He's got an aura when he walks in the room,
and it's like that kind of got stripped today.
And listen, he knows it.
He's not dumb.
He knows he's disappointed a lot of people, probably him the most.
Yeah.
Himself the most.
Ten years to try to bring a Stanley Cup might be one of the only things
he's truly failed up until this point.
And he's going to get another crack at it.
But I don't think he's ever experienced anything like this in his life,
anything he's ever done before.
He looked like a guy that this was new to me. Yeah. But I don't think he's ever experienced anything like this in his life, anything he's ever done before.
He looked like a guy that this was new to me, not succeeding. Can I ask you, because this press conference basically was just set up
for everyone to tell him that his plan didn't work, right?
This is like an intervention.
At the core.
A provincial intervention.
Not to use that word, but at the core of all these questions, they're all like, hey, man,
this ain't working.
We're worried about you.
This ain't working.
Yeah.
And this is your idea.
Yeah.
So what are you going to do?
And he just had to sit there and kind of take it, I felt like.
Yeah.
I thought Keith Pelley came in and said, winning's our priority.
That's what everyone wants to hear.
I thought Brad Treeliving talked like a human, which was amazing.
He got up there and just said kind of his thoughts and where they're at.
Chaney had a tougher role today.
Listen, he ate a crap sandwich today.
Let's be honest.
But it's okay.
He's a big boy.
He can take it.
Today was just about, for him and to a lesser extent,ad just get it over with let's have it let's
just give it to me but we did learn some things we didn't hear him say we believe in this core
and it's going to be fine you know we're going to we didn't it's different than other years we
expected him to not do that but all right well we'll get into some of those clips but uh we'll
start with uh the new boss keith Pelley, on his opening statement.
I will not make this a habit of participating in team operation news conferences,
but this is different.
This is the first time I've spoken publicly at a news conference as the CEO of MLSE. And with that title brings the heavy responsibility
of overseeing the Toronto Maple Leafs.
And I relish in that opportunity.
And at the core of that responsibility
is the real reason I came back to Toronto, and that is to win.
Good is simply not good enough. I can assure you that is the collective position
of ownership. And when I asked during the interview stage, what was the definition of success to the owners?
One of them immediately said emphatically, just win.
I mean, I want to hear that.
I do.
Do you really?
I do, Kip.
Good is simply not good enough.
It should be on every.
But he wrote that down.
That's on his paper for sure.
Oh, yeah.
I don't suggest that I have... If I was in Keith Pelley's shoes,
I wouldn't do the same thing.
Yeah.
Okay, but it's just stating the obvious.
Well, but he's got to state it.
I know, I know, I know.
But for me personally,
and I'm sure there's a few Leaf fans,
we're beyond that.
Like, no, it's not winning.
Yeah, great, great observation.
No, no, no, I get that.
But listen, they're big.
He's at the head of a huge organization.
And, you know, you can try to talk about
running a fluent thing or including everyone
or we want everyone to feel whatever. It was nothing.
I don't think anyone wanted to hear about
feelings or
direction or whatever. They just
want to win. It's all anyone wants.
So he went up and said, well, we want to win. And everyone went,
great.
That's why we got everybody together.
Exactly.
I've heard people less positive
than I am on that, but I don't know.
I thought, you know, he came out hot.
Like, with that first opening statement, I'm like, okay, here we go.
And then I thought, did he get you excited?
Did he get you feeling like, I'm going to be different from all the rest of them?
Listen, like you said, I've seen a lot of these, boys.
I've been through this.
Yes.
Like, I – He talks like he's 60.
I might as well be with the amount of stuff I've seen over my years.
Yeah.
You know, he said the right things, but talk is always cheap in these things.
I've seen the exact same thing said over and over in these things.
So this is where we're at now.
Like, okay, it's not about this 45 minute press conference it's like
what are you guys gonna do about it now yeah right that's the core god i someone tweeted
something like we hear this rah rah winning is everything and then you hear in the summer
joel edmondson extended that's the plan you know like what what's going to be different that's what
you want to hear about the player personnel and we never got there did you get out of keith pelly anything on um on his feeling of bringing a team together yeah how to
win a rider cup let's uh let's listen to clip two i've always believed that the formula for success
is great skill combined with chemistry and unity and in the midst of facing adversity in the first series down 3-1,
I got a full glimpse of the chemistry and unity that Brad and Brendan have.
I cannot comment on what has transpired over the last number of years,
but I can tell you that chemistry and unity
is the critical components that add with skill
in order to be successful.
And winning is winning the Stanley Cup.
That's noteworthy, too.
I actually took out the Ryder Cup part.
What was he...
You know what?
I wasn't paying attention probably as hard as I should have.
To what? The Ryder Cup?
Yeah.
What was his golf comparison?
Well, no.
He was the president of the DP Tour.
Yes.
And he had some involvement in the Ryder Cup.
I don't know.
It's not like he was Trevor Elman.
No.
It's not like he was Rory McIlroy.
No.
He has been a part of sporting success in a similar role where you're not Austin Matthews,
but you're the one.
Yeah.
Sure.
Okay.
Anyway.
Yeah.
Winning the Stanley Cup was a nice clarification. austin matthews but you're the one yeah sure okay anyway yeah um winning is so winning the
stanley cop he put a lot of value in the the two games that got the leafs back into the series at
3-3 against boston yeah did you hear that yeah yeah that he's did that did that save jobs could
have one thing that so it's not so much pelly there but there are even shanee mentioned like you know
these guys weren't here before and tree at one point was like i wasn't here before or whatever
i don't buy that part of any argument like your job is to know what has happened before you we
don't know i wasn't in the roman times but there are people who have done research on the roman
times so they understand it you know like we need they need to have a thorough understanding of what
happened before them that's their job now such a cop out just to say i wasn't here i don't
know so pelly i'll give him some grace it's been four weeks yeah you got some grace to to really
get into it tree's been here a year now there's no more i wasn't here i don't that still counts
that was still included in the time that you're supposed to be evaluating whether you're there or
not yep agree but he did yeah he also mentioned that a bit too
so i thought tree was bang on with most of it what most of what else sticks out well i think
the numbers the the the analytics no i just thought and the the comfort he had in discussing
the team and the direction they want to go felt to me like someone not reading a prepared statement or trying to blow smoke but just it was just a general i'm talking about the
feel in listening to brad tree living talk the i mean i cut five clips i could have cut a few more
the audio wasn't excellent at the you know talking about why he changed the head coach yeah but i
thought the most noteworthy couple we can start with this one it's more about
the on the ice product but the the clip on the lack of playoff scoring to me was actually really
good if we want to if we want to start there with drill event yeah it's a good it's a good question
kevin we i think there's there is when i've when i've gone back now and and kind of looked at it
there are some you know there's there are some similar touch points, right?
One of them is we haven't scored enough.
When I looked at this situation and spent some time over the course of the summer,
is we wanted to try to...
This team has scored in the regular season, hasn't scored in the playoffs.
We increased our scoring in the regular season this year. I think we were the second highest scoring team in the regular season hasn't scored in the playoffs we we increased our scoring in the regular season this year i think we're the second we're the second highest scoring team in the nhl
we're the number one scoring team in the in in the east we increased i think our total goals for by
20 last year or this year over over the previous year one of the things i wanted to try to do is
it wasn't total goals it's how the goals are scored in the playoffs. You score differently in the playoffs than you do in the regular season.
So is it systematic?
Is it personnel?
I think most of us in this room would understand it's more difficult.
You're defended harder.
You're played against harder in the playoffs.
So we haven't scored enough.
We haven't – our special teams haven't been good enough.
And to your question, we seem to be turning the other team's goalie
into the first star every night.
That's what I text you guys.
You're going to end up with a bunch of muckers.
Just a bunch of guys falling all over the crease for Tuesday times six.
I actually just love that answer.
It's a very good answer.
I think it's the way I've heard it articulated the best, quite honestly.
You know, the one thing that, like, I'm not a huge analytics guy,
but you know where I want analytics is that when you compare the playoffs
to the regular season, it's like just one or the other.
And I don't look at the regular season as, like, just one blanket 82 games.
Start giving me numbers on what your numbers are against legitimate playoff teams.
Love that.
And who's good and who has better goalies.
Don't give me, we scored in the regular season.
Tell me where the goals came from against which teams.
Because as we've stated over the last three years we've been together,
half the league stinks.
Yeah. Okay? So I want together, half the league stinks. Yeah.
Okay?
So I want to know where the numbers are.
How many goals during the regular season have you scored against non-playoff teams
compared to the Bostons, the Tampas, and the good teams?
That's the number that you need to focus on.
Has someone given you something like this over the course of the year?
Have you seen something like this?
No, nothing. Nothing? You haven't seen it? Because you mentioned mentioned it a few times and it's very easy to get but i do know like if austin scored 70 goals i can tell you right now
over half of them are against non-playoff teams well kip i hate to say that but that's the i know
but that's you know but i don't know where the cutoff line is yeah Yeah. Like Sam Reinhart, like I think Austin had six hat tricks this year.
Six of those teams didn't make the playoffs.
Yeah.
Right.
And I'm just,
I'm just,
if you really want to get down to it,
it's,
there's a small core teams that can really look at themselves and go,
yeah,
we can,
we can go deep here.
You know,
this is how you come up with a great idea to research,
and it's a really good one.
Which core players are performing better against top half teams
compared to the other guys?
Someone out there, get me that information.
Mike Kelly.
Where you at?
Where you at?
Well, we'll find that out.
That would be a kipper's clipper.
There you go.
Let's get some details.
You know, to kind of defend Keith Pelley a little bit here,
like, you went and fired a coach,
and that was, I'd describe it as low-hanging fruit.
But outside of that,
nobody really expected him to make a decision
on Brendan Shanahan here.
Yeah, they did.
What do you mean?
Yes, they did.
It's the reason why he turned around
and said he's my president and he's a champion and he's that's it makes sense to keep him but
i think plenty of people for keith pelly it makes sense to keep him yes right it does it makes no
sense to send him home and you know lots of talk about brandon only having one year deal he
hinted that might not be the case here but regardless you're really going to send him home
to to collect a paycheck and it's a big paycheck guys yeah big one you think but i think this is a
situation of a two different circles of conversations here kipper maybe the people like
everyone expected him to not be around anymore.
Like, I think one of the biggest conversations right after they lost
was like, well, that's it for Shanahan.
That's it for this era of Leafs hockey.
So tell me something.
I get why he kept him, though.
If it went today, if it was just Keith Pelley
and Brad Tree living up there by themselves,
how would you have felt today?
Okay.
To be honest, going into the press conference
wouldn't have felt that way but the way that brad trilliving handled himself today and the way he
talked and the way he just my trust in him and it's talk is cheap but my trust in him went north
went up yeah for this press conference and i would have felt differently i thought he spoke
beautifully what's hard what's hard to shanny is like i do trust his decision making making i have
a lot of respect for him think he's you know by all accounts a good guy but there's a lot of
emotions tied up in this now you know where a guy trying to hang on to his job who's partially
responsible for the failures it doesn't quite feel like a fresh start and what about like if they
change the whole philosophy does he still get the same credit that he would have if the core four
thing had worked? Right.
If they're like, for whatever,
for example, they trade Marner and Riley
are gone. And those guys are part
of the thing, or Marner and Tavares are both
gone. And his whole
philosophy was, the core four is going to work. It's going to
work. If those guys get traded, you
change the whole philosophy of the team.
Is it still him getting all the credit?
Like, I don't know.
It depends on, like like how do you view this now we still don't know what he does no one really brendan shanahan when he signed uh 10 years ago yeah it started off with lewiki and then lewiki
fell off and then there was nobody outside of that so brendan got to go to the board on all the decisions
right yeah now that's not the case now he's got to go to keith pelly so that's a major change in
his in his role role so now do we get the sense that brendan and brad are going to work together, and when they have a big key decision,
they go to Keith, and Keith says yes or no.
We should add another step to these.
We should add another step.
It would have been nice to get a question
about the hierarchy for hockey decisions.
I do think that there's been an evolution
in the role of president,
and I'm not sure what Brendan's role is supposed to be.
Because initially, I felt like he came from the nhl and was taking a business job like president to me was a business role for a
lot of these teams but now it feels like a hockey job so i don't really use hockey operations which
what does that mean it means like running a hockey team is hiring a general manager and overseeing trains and the coaching philosophy and personnel.
The operations to me isn't...
Operations top to bottom for me.
Anything that operates the hockey club, I am the president.
Okay.
I believe you and I believe you.
I'm saying I don't know.
To me, I always thought of it as like, okay,
how do we get the cheapest flights to Denver?
You know, like that's
the operation you call a travel agent yeah okay good to know that's what i thought brendan did
he called travel agents i don't know yeah anyway so that is um we haven't heard from shannon yet
we haven't and i would say the i don't know if you want to do the opening statement first but
clip to uh luke fox asked a very good question you tell tell me. Yeah, well, I mean, I think the biggest conversation
in the offseason is about Marner and Tavares, right?
And Luke asked a very pointed question
about if he would be willing to approach them
to waive the no-trade clause, basically,
and this was the answer to that clip, too.
Thanks, Luke.
I think it's important to state, as we've discussed,
even since the season has ended, that everything is on the table.
We will discuss everything.
I don't think it serves the Toronto Maple Leafs in any fashion to discuss those things prematurely, to discuss those individuals prematurely.
Our focus right now is on finding a new head coach, and certainly that new head coach will have an important voice as part
of our decisions going forward. I'm just simply saying that whatever questions you guys ask
us here today, generally speaking, are things that we're going to have to consider after
the things that we've seen. Brad and Keith are relatively new here, but I am not.
And I have seen some of these things over the years.
And again, I do believe there's a time for preaching patience,
and I do believe there's a time where you have to examine some of the patterns that persist.
So everything will be on the table.
Not to get into any specifics today,
I don't think that serves the Toronto Maple Leafs.
So... Address the Maple Leafs. So...
Address the patterns that persist. So that's
obviously talking about postseason failures. I don't
understand the word prematurely.
I don't think it helps us. What's premature
about it? It's time to have the conversation.
And patience too, right?
That's a tough word to throw out to
Leaf Nation. But he said it's not time for patience.
Which it's not. Which is why it's not
premature. It's actually time to have that discussion.
So I don't...
But he did mention that there's also time to
not make hasty
decisions as well. For sure, but I think
if you're going to strip
down the politician later said answer...
Run it through a speak human omni...
The answer is yes.
And a yes. Well, he said,
generally speaking, what you're going to ask us about, we're going to discuss.
Yeah.
You know, it's going to come up.
But listen, it's...
Little from Columbia.
It is.
Again, it's stating the obvious.
You go to any trade deadline on any team,
we're going to look at anything that makes our team better.
But they didn't say that in the past.
In the past, they said,
we believe we have what it takes in this room right here.
We have it.
Yeah, but there was...
But this time, you know what would happen
if they would have tried that statement.
Yeah, we lit them up.
Oh, the fire and sweat.
He's sharpening the knives.
Yeah.
So, you know, I guess the idea is they came out and they said they're going to do what
we, what they should do.
They're going to talk about all these things.
Talk about potentially moving some pieces.
I guess they got to hire a coach.
Beyond that, you're right, Kip, that it was kind of what you thought it might be.
There were no huge shocks.
I think if you're them and you're sitting back in the green room after the conference,
you went, nailed it.
You know, we didn't get in any trouble.
I don't think anybody's going, we nailed it.
We got through it.
We consumed the crap sandwich and didn't die.
We got through it.
Now let's just go to work, I guess.
Yeah, I guess.
You want to go to Brendan Shanahan on what we just did marner and to ours i mean he
kind of some more changes being needed just more further to kind of the the clip two there if you
want to play clip three that's that is the difficult question um that we've we've looked
back and had different experiences where if you were to if you were to just live in a vacuum and
and just view this one playoff you may have a different view of our
team and the optimism and the and the closeness of where they were but we can't think that way
now after seeing what we've seen year after year after year and that's where i'm saying that i i
do believe that there's there's a time where the right answer is patience and then there comes a
time where you have to say that that you have new information to you the information has evolved and you have to adjust your way of thinking so more alluding to the fact
that things have to move yeah i thought a large portion of the press conference that interested
me was the injury reports you guys want to discuss those uh did they get pushed on it pushed like there were people
clamoring to figure out the injuries i wanted to know didn't you i know you wanted to know
i'm just sitting there going i would have avoided it like the plague every year though they these
people report what happened to their guys yeah um william neilander we knew severe migraines i
think they called them ocular migraines.
Austin Matthews was sick for a bit and then head injury issues.
So concussion-like symptoms, I believe.
Okay.
No.
And he was only cleared for game seven.
Yeah.
Okay.
We don't know, right?
Still, like you didn't.
We just don't know.
Maybe concussion, maybe not. I don't know.
If it's a concussion, why wouldn't they just say it?
Because they're not sure.
So you can couch it with symptoms.
I think if you say concussion,
then you probably would have had to go through some sort of protocol that they didn't go through.
But yeah.
Joe Wall?
So here's the one I don't like.
Joseph Wall.
I heard them all.
I heard all the things. i was like mcl sprain
was joseph wall bad back sprain back spring back i'd rather have a sprain back than a headache
yes i don't what i'm saying like sprain back to me is a sprain back headache
when you're not sure if it's a concussion or not is like
come on bud which one the head you think you should play with the head i'm just saying if it's
i think he should have found a way to kind of push himself through it i do wow i do yeah i mean these
and i'm not unless you're defending if it's not acussion, to me, at least a sprained back, it's there.
It's a sprained back.
Maybe you've got a concussion.
Maybe you don't.
I've played with headaches before.
Headaches is severely minimizing what it may be.
If you had a headache, you'd take aspirin and play.
I'm saying it's an easier sell.
A sprained back is an easier sell than a headache.
That's all.
Not to me, because it's not a headache.
Okay, then why are you telling me that you have a problem with a sprained back?
Because I think a sprained back is a physical ailment
that you can play through with drugs and heat and everything else.
We're saying the same thing, but we've got opposite sides on it.
For sure.
Headache to a back.
Well, there's nothing to, you know no you can't put ice or a heat
pack or take something like when you're foggy and sick because your your brain's not right but to me
a physical ailment that's funny we do not agree that's funny is it wow i'm like find a way to get
through a headache and you're saying find a way to get through a sprained back yeah no it is my
back is the back either way people think we're
animals yeah i can tell you that but the game's an animal yeah okay this is what you need this
is the way you play the game right this is the culture of the game yeah okay we put people on
pedestals that aren't supposed to play but play what a warrior that's how you win in the playoffs
this is what you need. This is leadership.
This is, that's the way we've talked about this game for generations.
Because people do put their physical body on the line for their team.
That's how you get a statue.
It is.
I would love to talk to teammates of these guys and be like,
anything that doesn't bother you at all?
What do you think?
I think probably.
Yeah.
Would you like to hear Ratcher Living talk about the goaltending
for the Toronto Maple Leafs?
Yes.
Okay.
Clip five, please.
Joe, I've got faith in Joe.
Now, like everybody else, there's questions.
There's questions that, you know, why the biggest question with Joe
is he's gotten injured a lot.
We have to dig into that.
Sometimes that happens.
Sometimes bad luck happens. Is there a training
issue that we have to deal with? Do we need to change something in his off-ice
routine? All those things is what we have to dig into.
I believe in Joe as a goaltender. We have to support
Joe. Ilya's contract's up, but
we certainly have to try to put ourselves
in a position where we're not,
that we don't have the second-best goaltender
in each of these series.
But I think it's a function of both sides,
not just our goaltending,
but what we do to make things difficult
on the other team's goaltender.
They got to go get a goalie.
Absolutely.
Couldn't agree more.
Like, if the list wasn't long enough
now samson i wanted just like his contracts out no further comment his contracts out yeah
that's all you need to know so he's not coming back but by the way uh the guy sent me i got
the stats already on the guys against playoff and non-playoff teams we can talk about it later
okay yeah thanks to josiah Bosch for that.
Oh, there you go.
Our guy.
Yeah.
How good of a goalie do you need now?
UC Soros.
I don't mind paying him 5.5 for next year.
I mind everything after that.
Now the question is, is Joseph Wall,
if you think you can solve him not finding ways to be hurt then it's not
sorrows okay who is it i don't know why is it because you because because sorrows is coming
to be the goalie for the next three or four years and joseph wall will never be anything more than a
backup that's why well yeah but i Soros, if he's a free agent
and you're kind of playing that year as a buffer year,
you have your, I don't know, you have a pretty good goalie duo.
And they have the guy in the minors as the Askarov kid
that's like their goalie of the future.
Trot said they maybe want to pay Soros.
I don't know if that's true or not,
but to me, that's a massive target for me.
Markstrom, he was getting shopped.
Oh, yeah, I'm sure.
Calgary won't trade with Toronto.
Why is every guy that at least want to trade for Calgary?
I don't know.
So many guys that would have fit here this year.
Yeah.
But clearly that has to be addressed.
And we've had this conversation.
How does a guy find a way
to get hurt all the time like this bad luck is it just bad luck i you know i suppose it is and but
like people are made differently we have different physical constitutions and some people
are a little bit more hardy for whatever reason he doesn't he seems to have pigeon bones i don't know i hope he figures it
out there are cases in NHL history where players have long runs of bad injury luck and then they
kind of figure it out remember Crosby's concussions we were like this guy's never going to play a full
career guy that i mean that him sorry him missing game seven it just that shook the shook the trust
to the core and i wonder like could he have played two days later seven, it just shook the trust to the core.
And I wonder, like, could he have played two days later?
Like, is it just one of those things that it was just a tweak before game seven?
It was too quick a turnaround.
Flew, got on the plane.
Point three seconds to save a shutout.
But it wasn't the knee.
No.
Everyone thought it was the knee that he kind of bent over.
So it was later in that game.
Maybe it was a different thing than that.
Well, why couldn't it have been that play?
I don't know.
I'm not a doctor, pal.
I was saying that Willie should play with eye migraines.
We clearly are not doctors either.
Everyone thinks we're Neanderthals, but.
Yeah.
We are.
Yeah, you're right.
We are.
Anything else from those clips that you see there that you're interested in?
No, but we got to come back after the break.
Sure.
We'll get Brad Tree Living's thought on a coaching search
and the latest on Joel Quenville
and the thought that maybe he could be back on an NHL bench
as early as next season.
Oh, okay.
And Luke Fox all after the break.
Don't go away.
Oh, wow.
Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective.
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Nick Kipper, Justin Bouroren, Sammy McKee,
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All right, we go to Luke.
I thought we were doing Luke at 440.
It's 438.
Oh, is it?
Okay, let's go to Luke.
Luke, how are you?
I'm doing okay.
Okay.
I think I might be done with Leaf press conferences
until we go meet Craig Berube or something in a week or so.
Okay.
You tell me where you want to start on what you saw
and what you heard this morning out of the three bigwigs
from the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Well, I think you hit it right there.
I think just the fact that there were three and not two.
For once, Brendan Shanahan was not the most powerful man sitting up at the dais you know uh i i think
keith pelly's presence and he said hey i'm not going to make a habit of this i'm not always
going to be here but just him showing up made it feel like there was some weight to it. You know, he said the things people expected to hear,
like, I want to win a Stanley Cup,
and nothing below that will be satisfactory.
Like, that's what ownership wants.
That's what I want.
We want to win.
But just his presence kind of diminished immediately
Brendan Shanahan's role.
So he's sitting there,
and suddenly he has a flesh and bone boss that he
reports to someone we can see not this,
you know,
faceless board that he reports to.
So,
you know,
I,
I think the other thing was,
is he going to can Brendan Shanahan right away?
You know,
he's had 10 chances to build a team that goes deep and hasn't got it done
eight legitimate chances in terms of a roster that has made the playoffs and i think that was
the big question is he gonna fire shanahan um obviously he's not he's sticking around
but for the first time in a long time, it felt like Shanahan's power is diminished
and his job is very much on the line.
Luke, what did you take away as,
oh, and I hate this corporate buzz speak word,
actionable items from that press conference?
Like what is going to happen to the Leafs roster?
What did you take away for actual tangible change
that's going to come?
Well, they said everything is on the table so i i think
that actually should include a conversation with mitch marner and john tavaris they hold a lot of
power here and the fact that they negotiated no move clauses they earned that through their
negotiation i'm pro player like if you get everything you can so So they have that. But we've reached the point now where they finally realized the core five isn't working.
Like that's finally sunk in.
And time will tell.
I'm afraid for Leafs Nation that maybe they've figured this out too late because the players have this protection.
But at least they're going to have that conversation with them.
I think they will talk about that.
The other thing is, I think they realize Samsonov is gone.
They want to change Joseph Wool's training habits
over the course of the summer
to hopefully turn him into a goalie that can stay healthy.
They love the guy. They love his mentality.
They love his positioning, his calmness in the net.
And I would agree with that.
But what good is that if your season's on the line and he's up in the net and I would agree with that but what good is that if your season's on
the line and he's up in the press box because he's too unhealthy to play so I think they want
to take a look at how he's training hopefully get him on a healthier regime they're going to have to
find a tandem mate for him that's an actionable item because Samsonov's not coming back and
they're going to have to build a blue line and they're going to have to find
more guys that are
playoff ready, that are playoff
reformers. Bradshaw Living said
something really interesting. He said our goals
in total got
escalated. We're growing that number.
But he's looking at the
how we score goals and the how
has gotten worse.
Do they need to do something in the off season?
Can they,
can they look like the same team come September and training camp?
I don't,
I don't think they can.
I think they need some bigger changes just because when imagine those guys
all reporting into camp in September and yeah,
there's going to be a new voice in terms of the head coach.
But when the going gets tough, are they going to start throwing gloves and bickering with each other because it's the same faces that have had so many disappointments?
Or are they going to feel like there's a refreshed sense of new energy amongst the roster?
Not just amongst the coach, not just the new GM,
but actually the guys they're, you know,
quote unquote, going to war with every day.
I think that there needs to be a reset there.
I don't think it would fly.
Yeah, and you hope it's not like in March,
they're like, you know, we're going to do the deadline.
Like it would be nice for the team
to have a fresh feel going into the season.
So then the question becomes,
what is your
sense or understanding of how the hierarchy works you know we were talking earlier in the show about
brendan shanahan's role in the hockey decisions we want this player we don't want that one you
know do you think he's heavily involved in the day-to-day decisions on you know this is who we
want to play or is that really tree living? Oh, like the roster?
Like who they're dressing?
Well, who they're dressing, who they're trading for.
Like how much is the actual personnel Shanahan related?
My sense is who they're trading for, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah, that type of stuff.
As in, oh, we're going to help these scratch David Camp tonight.
I don't think it goes
that that deep that granular i would i would like to think not i would like to think he trusts
trade living to handle that type of stuff but yeah mitch if are we going to have a mitch
marner trade conversation for sure shanahan's involved in that now i think i got my sense was
keith pelle wants to be a little hands off and them do their thing, but he's going to be keeping a much closer eye on what they do
than the board did,
which is who Shanahan used to report directly to.
Gotcha.
We're talking to Luke Fox,
Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca.
Regardless if they go to John Tavares
to lift his no move this summer or not.
Do you fully expect that in his last year of his deal,
a transition to captaincy,
do you expect him not to be the captain next year,
even if he returns?
I expect that to be a conversation.
Yeah.
I'm not,
I'm not so sure.
I'm not certain it's going to go one way or
the other but i actually think you know what in being around john these last couple years he often
defers to austin matthews like he's one of the best players in the world he's the engine that
drives our team so i he's a smart guy i think he knows that he's no longer the alpha dog. And I got to give some props to him.
I love the fact that he's dressing up for Hockey Canada, you know, and going over there.
He's fighting this.
You know, he's fighting father time.
I think deep in his mind, he's like, maybe I can make the fourth line of Team Canada
and the Four Nations Cup.
I think he's that driven.
Now, whether that's realistic, that's up for debate.
But he is not going to go down without a fight.
But in terms of the captaincy, I think there's a way that this could be a smoother transition
than some people realize, because I think Tavares has already conceded that he's not
the main guy here anymore.
So Sheldon Keefe has moved on and there's an open coaching
position what are you hearing about sheldon is there any opportunity for him elsewhere and what
about potential replacements for him you know where do you have it sort of narrowed down to a
handful of guys you expect yeah for sheldon i'm hearing jersey um which would be really fascinating
but it's it's entirely his choice.
You know, he's got a great, he's got it made, right?
He's got the soft landing.
He's getting a raise coming up,
and he doesn't have to coach a day of that raise if he doesn't want to.
So there could be a chance where he jumps in,
stays right in the league and say, hey, I want this.
I thrive off this. Or he can take a year off.
You guys know how this business is.
You know how quickly coaches get fired.
Maybe there's an even better opportunity
that pops up midway through the season,
or he takes a full year off, just be as a dad,
collects his paycheck, and then looks at the landscape then.
So he's in a really nice position,
which might explain all the the smiles in his
farewell video that he shot um and as for the the leafs coaching position i am hearing that
craig brew raised the front runner uh i checked in with with someone who would know and you guys
maybe should follow up with doug on this one because he's the gerard glant whisperer uh to
my knowledge he hasn't yet been contacted for an
interview but I think he would be and should be a person of interest I don't think they want to
uncover some new upstart coach I think they're going to get a familiar voice whoever it is
I wonder if the Leafs have enough power to talk the NHL into reinstating Joel Quimble. I think if there was no baggage,
he'd probably be the perfect guy
just because of the presence he commands.
I think that this group needs a voice
that comes in there with some heft to it,
a guy that they're going to listen to and respect,
and preferably with a ring on his finger
or some deep runs on his resume.
But right now, yeah, it seems like Berube is the front runner.
I hope they interview multiple guys.
My understanding is Kyle Dubas didn't interview a single other person.
He just handpicked Sheldon Keefe.
And if they just handpick Berube the way Shanahan handpicked Trey Living without really
doing a
thorough search.
I think that's a mistake.
I think they should take their time and maybe they should wait to see how
this Carolina hurricane series shakes out.
Maybe they get swept.
You want a coach that's been swept two years in a row.
I want a coach that gets his guys to take 50 shots
and tries to bring his sturgeon down.
We'll keep an eye on the coaching carousel.
Hey, Luke, thanks for doing this, man.
Okay, thanks for having me.
Thanks, Luke.
Luke Fox.
So Luke mentioned Joel Quenville.
Now the word I'm getting out of the National Hockey League
is that his future is undecided as of yet,
and they have not ruled out Joel Quenville
coming back as early as next season.
Now, I'm wondering if that's the influence
of the Toronto Maple Leafs saying,
we're opening this up,
and we'd like a chance to talk to Joel Quenville.
Sammy, how did your poll go?
Hmm.
Funny you asked.
So McKee put out a poll to Leafs Nation.
Would you be okay with Joel Quenville as the head coach of the Leafs?
A couple thousand votes.
In 24 hours, just over 2,000 votes, 52.3% of people said yes.
Wow.
47.7% of people said no. Wow. 47.7% of people said no.
That's tight.
Mm-hmm.
That is...
You know, for a guy who's won three Stanley Cups,
that's obviously reflective of people's comfort.
When did he last coach?
Florida.
Yeah, what year?
How long ago?
21?
Was it three years ago?
Yeah.
That's a long time.
Well, I think the best point from yesterday was just,
you got to tell him he can either coach or he can't coach.
You can't leave him kind of dangling.
Like, you can coach in two years.
It's a five-year ban.
You can coach.
He didn't answer.
He coached seven games with the Florida Panthers in 21, 22.
His record at that time.
Can you...
His record at that time was 7-0.
They were 7-0.
Any worry or thought that, like, it's been a while here,
and would you be getting the same Joel Quenville
that is second in league history?
Has he... same Joel Quenville that is second in league history?
Has he, you know, the things that he's gone through in the last three years,
is that going to affect the way he coaches?
Is it going to affect the way players look at him?
Is that not a conversation that you need to have?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I don't know how you don't have that conversation. I think the perception, like the younger league, you know,
the way guys maybe look at him, the way maybe people talk about him, I don't know how you don't have that conversation. I think the perception, like the younger league, the way guys maybe look at them, the way maybe people talk about them,
I don't know.
It might not be a slam dunk that this is the right hire.
You think you're getting Stanley Cup champion and all of that pedigree,
and you can, but is it still there, though?
Is it still there?
And then the media perception.
I just don't think, you know, we talked yesterday.
I think it was about the difference between X's and O's guys
versus motivational run-through-a-wall guys.
Like, everyone's pretty similar, X's and O's, fairly.
Like, not entirely.
But, like, does it take away from Quenville's run-through-a-wall
for that guy if you
feel like some of that reputation is tainted and so maybe you're not getting what you think you're
getting in him and then maybe it's just not worth it you know and i do think someone would take a
chance on them but the leafs are at a pretty pivotal point in their franchise here and it'd
be a weird hire for me but i mean pelly said multiple times that the only priority
is winning is winning and to be honest like that's that's good i think for fans that they're
going to prioritize winning but i don't just wait he meant at the cost of 31 teams prioritizing that
right come on no not the sharks yeah you know yeah no i're i'm just saying like they he kept bringing it up over and
over and over and over and if you're trying to be this cutthroat you think you'll do anything to win
boy that's doing anything to win and that's a dicey one especially in this market i i
the more i think about it the more i don't want it yeah it's it's just he's been away a while i
don't know this feels a little crazy do you want
a tree living clip on the coaching search yeah let's have it clip one tree living
um listen there's some there's some good coaching candidates out there we
we intend to explore them i'm not going to get into specific individuals. As far as the timeline, Terry, we want to be thorough,
but we also understand there's other openings.
You know, it was a difficult day yesterday.
You know, and I think the process that we went through up until the buck went in the net Saturday night,
we're doing our focus is solely on trying to win that series.
And then you go through all the stages, right?
I believe you've got to step back.
You don't want to make emotional decisions, and it's been emotional.
It still is.
So I wanted to deal with Sheldon properly and really be clear
and think that process through, spend some quality time with them.
And then once that decision was made, get on to the next step.
So we began that yesterday.
You know, we're not waiting.
We're going to be thorough.
This isn't something that's going to be hastily done,
but we certainly know that there's some quality candidates out there, and we want to get to them
as fast as we possibly can.
Got to think by next
week, they'll name a head coach.
There will be a new coach at the Toronto Maple Leafs
next week. Oh, I'll have something to talk about next week in early
fire. Yeah. Odds
on Craig Bruby?
Not that I'm saying that's
my choice.
McClellan, I can see.
Yeah, I can see.
Oh, yeah?
I do.
Yeah.
What do you think?
I think it's flip a coin between the two of them.
Wow.
Yeah.
Only they know right now where they're leaning towards.
All right.
Our thanks to Luke Fox from Sportsnet.ca.
After the break, it's Doug McClain off the rails Friday.
Don't go away