Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Getting Reinforcements in Columbus

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Daniele Franceschi look ahead to the Toronto Maple Leafs' matchup against the Columbus Blue Jackets as Auston Matthews makes his return to the lineup. They hear from the captain's pre-game sound before discussing the Leafs' decisions to waive Sammy Blais and make Dakota Joshua and Matias Maccelli healthy scratches in Columbus. Then, the guys discuss Joshua's season so far, how Matthews' return can spark a turnaround, and whether Matthew Knies can develop the enforcer side of his game. Finally, Hockey Night in Canada's Craig Simpson (33:27) weighs in on the Leafs' opportunity to set a new first impression as injured players begin to return, and what to expect out of Matthews against the Jackets.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

There we go, game day on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet. Ready to go. Nick Kippreos, Justin Bourne, Derek Brandeo, Frank the Tank, Barrasca. And in for Sammy, Danieli, Francesco. Franceschi. what's going on oh e o s all kind of greeks italians oh it's all the same yeah it's definitely italian yeah it's definitely how's it going gentlemen good good good good first time in this chair this year

it's great to be back is it your first time well first time this season yeah yeah it's good to be back with you guys well we appreciate you coming in first of all because our boy sammy and to take a page out of the toronto maple leaf maybe he'll be in tomorrow Maybe not Upper body Upper body Lower body Did he skate today

Did Sammy skate today? No one knows Take the day off Because then Danieli Franceschi Who is a professional Will come in And do a really great lineup

And I'll have to hear it from Kripper for three weeks So I decided to be coming to work The day after Well wherever you're watching And listening SportsSat 360 SportsSat 590 in Toronto are streaming always on sports at plus we're glad you're aboard also available on

Spotify Apple Podcasts and YouTube in about half an hour welcome in Craig Simpson who's covering the game tonight always great having his insight on the Toronto Maple Leafs no one covers that team more than him and Chris Cutbert so great to have simmer back on in the meantime the biggest news of the day Leaves get back three years. key figures in their lineup. Nicholas Waugh Matthew Nyes

and maybe the most important the captain Austin Matthews. He's back. He's back. The boys are back in town. Are we sure? Yeah.

It's not just a rumor. He spoke. That's a thing. He did. He did words that he is coming back and looking forward to being a part of it. The coach even said that he was around.

He handled his absence. Well, he's the, happy to have his captain back. So because of that, that really changes their lineup for tonight. There's a feeling, too, that they're hitting a Columbus Blue Jacket team. That's a little underwhelmed in their lineup as well. Olivia won't be playing tonight. No, he's out.

No, Olivier and No, Marchenko. Werenski's in. Werenski is in. He was a guy that left the last game early. leaves early he plays 18 minutes that's what happens when you're averaging 26 a night he is that's the second most time

on ice in the NFL learn from your lineup I don't want to harp on on this any more than we have to but it just seems so weird that like we woke up today to the news that these guys are coming back when it just it just seemed so simple to me

that yesterday before they left Austin Matthews comes out, says, I'm good to go. The team needs me. I'm ready. Let's go. We're turning this thing around. The gray jersey yesterday, the mystery going into tonight, waking up this morning, not knowing.

Just one last crack could tell me where the benefit was on that? The benefit thing, I'm never going to be able to answer. I don't know the benefit. I continue to, if you believe, take them at face value. You think they're operating in good faith. They genuinely don't know. They genuinely are like, we'll see if he feels good tomorrow. We don't know.

I don't know. And we do have the captain talking about how he's feeling if you would like to. I would love to. All right. I would love to. Let's do Matthew's clip one, please. Good. Yeah, really good.

I mean, it's, you know, it's been a tough couple weeks, but I think over the last four or five days or so, skating, practicing, it'll start to feel really good day after day. So stack some, you know, positive momentum they're going into it and, you know, feel like I'm ready to go tonight. I would have loved that yesterday. Just to give the fans another, a longer stretch of feeling, okay, he sounds like he's ready.

Let's go. Well, you got it today. That looks like it changes their lineup a lot. As I mentioned, Sammy Blay has been waived, which some risk there. the coach likes them no risk to you no one's going to take him buddy he was in the minors all of last season i'm not sure there was another team willing to have even given him one game this year all right so blaze going out of the marlies quillan's going down on the marries Dakota joshua and

matthias machelli skated after they won't play tonight they won't play tonight they won't play tonight they're out yeah so was someone listening to our show calling for uh okay like give joshua a reset here up in the stands, one game. Yeah. I mean, this is, we're talking about merit, right? This is a merit-based decision. He hasn't been very good. Machelli has not delivered, you know, I think he's probably been better,

but these guys haven't been what was expected. So I got to tell you, I kind of like the look at tonight's forward group. Like, you're getting pretty close to what it's going to look like at full health. I guess if you wanted Joshua and Machelli, just need them playing better. But, yeah, they have all hands on deck tonight. I wonder if it's by design that they didn't skate line rushes today.

Not wanting to... Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Just more of the secrecy. Oh my gosh. November. Yeah. I know. I know.

Give me again playoffs. Give me down the stretch with some sort of secrecy or not wanting to tip your hand but November. One of the things I admire most of really good teams is when they're just like

this is our fastball, see if you can hit it. You know, like this is our lineup. it's the same every night go ahead and try to stop it this is our goalie who's in net it's like a great pitcher in baseball like for sure going right at him with a hundred yeah i don't get all the secrecy either but anyway so uh probably have cowen out there with uh nielander tovarez maybe yes something like that yes nize matthews and robertson you get waugh the man and domi yeah the the third line to me is the one that has to

look good you know I guess you could say Nick Waugh out of the three is the one that probably you're satisfied the most out of the three of the new guys

machelli and Joshua you're in low bar right yeah I think so but I think there's still time for him to establish that he is the centerpiece around a third line checking but what is that long? What is it going to ultimately be?

Is Joshua going to come back and take his ownership of what was given to him in the first 22 games? That's, you know, remains to be seen. It's a big problem. You know, I really like the bones of what you could do with something like a wah between Lawton and Lawrence. Like, doesn't that sound like a... That sounds like a good fourth line to me. Yeah, like a Stanley Cup level fourth line. Maybe, yeah.

If you're third line, then you're left with a fourth line of, you know, Joshua, Machelli, Domi or something, which is not what you're looking for. So there's McMahon to, like, there's, I would say there's a legitimate good four pieces and if Joshua's good, a good five pieces in your bottom six. But if Joshua doesn't get better by February or something, I'm curious to see if they don't find him a new home. I think they got multiple problems here. I think Domi's a bit of a problem, too. Like, Domi's got to start, he's got to turn things around. He's got to find a home, a spot, for sure. A position, a comfort of what you are and what you can contribute.

And they have not been able to do that. But like I've said this on the show before, there's a number of guys that are looking for homes in terms of positioning. Yeah. You've got the stats on here, the least largest difference between even strength, goal differential. So the Leafs are plus 11 with Matthews on the ice and minus 14 with him off the ice. That's their biggest one. Domi's the other way. He's the worst of the bunch. Minus 12 when on the ice and plus nine when he's off the ice. So you got to find something in the

bottom six to be. They need an identity line. Yeah. They need and I think, you know, I think from what you've seen with Nick Waugh, there are elements of his game. He experienced the pedigree of the style that is probably conducive to him being a part of some sort of identity. entity line makeup, it's finding the other pieces to go along with it. I just wish he had some energy. You know, do you watch that Oilers game at all last night? They had a kid come up, Clattenberg. scored his first goal.

Yeah, scored his first NHL goal. No one else in the Oilers did anything. He ran around. He hit seven guys. He scored a goal. He was dying to get noticed. But yeah, I'm watching that Edmonton game last night. Yeah.

And I'm watching the goals scored on Dallas. Yeah. That looked exactly like. North America versus the world All-Star game. That's how bad it was. You know, when you're just, when you're tapping these goals

and the crowds barely even acknowledging them. I was saying guys, you don't even have to bend their knees in front of the net. They're just standing up and putting away loose pox. Tapping loose pox, empty nets. I'm like, this is weird. Where I was going with that is they had no energy guy. I know.

So one energy guy stood out. The Leafs had a glimpse of that with Quillan. you know it'd be nice for them to find someone who's like okay my job is the energy guy they've been light on that for sure all right we'll get Craig brewby's thoughts on the injured players getting back and getting stronger into the lineup yeah no for sure it's a boost right it's a boost for a team for morale getting our captain back for sure and the other two guys are good players important players so yeah it's great they're all back tonight do you try and like spread out the wealth with these guys

coming back? Do you have to manage your minutes at all? Yeah. No, it's a little bit. I've got to obviously manage what I'm seeing out there and how they're feeling. And like for me, you know, we need everybody tonight. All four lines going, all 60 going.

So like I said, the minutes will be spread out, you know, for the most part. I got to, you know, we need everybody. Okay, other than just finding some way to end up with two points, This does feel a little bit of a reset.

It does. Right? It just feels like this, it could be slotted tonight as a game where we can look back and say, okay, when they got their guys back, that's when it started looking a little different. That's when they started to believe a little bit more. That's when we saw more of Boroughby and maybe what we saw last year. But so specifically, what do you need to see tonight?

So this doesn't feel like setting them up for failure to say that you should win this hockey game tonight. Okay. If you're a better team than last in the league, go ahead. And how should you do it, though? Yes. Okay. Puck possession.

Okay. You have to have the puck for more than half the time. You have to create more high danger chances than the other team creates. And you have to have a power play that looks like an adult was in charge of it. Yeah. You know, those to me are the basics. Energy, control the play, competent power play. What do you think?

Do you get anything to add to that? No, no. You hit all the points. you know, to sum up what you said, plus, you know, what I say, and I don't know if you want to compare energy to pace. The Leafs have showed zero pace. I agree.

Even last night with the Oilers, who are supposed to be one of the most fastest dynamic teams led by two of the best players in the world. Like, in today's day and age, you need pace. And that's why I think a guy like Dakota Joshua has struggled right from the get go because he doesn't have it no pace i see no pace on him i see no forecheck on him i don't see uh getting in first and then causing all types of havoc i see a guy just barely getting there and then having a d have all types of time to make a one or two decisions before he moves

the puck up and then he's chasing back up the ice on a back check it's funny it's it's pace to me I want to see a faster pace out of led by Austin. Yeah. It's funny because he doesn't look bad, Joshua. He looks like there's just nothing happened, and the game's happening around. I got him slow, bud. No, no, I agree that he looks slow.

But I just, he's never, there's never any moments where I'm like, oh, he messed up badly there, or he's out of position there. He just exists and kind of gets through the game. Yeah. Why don't we listen to what Barubi had to say. It's just a quick clip here, clip two on the state of Joshua's game. Just okay. You know, we chatted today.

You know, he's got more to give, and he knows that, and he wants to give more. So it's just about getting him going in the right direction here. I get what he's trying to do. He's just trying not to bury him anymore than he is. Coach never comes out and goes bad. Good on, good on him, I guess, for you're saying just okay. Coach in ease for bad. That's coach speak.

That's exactly it. For $3.2 million, that's just not okay. No. Well, and the concern is that it's $3.2 million the next year. and then the next year as well. So that is certainly a concern. I mean, it's a fair question to ask. How do you get it wrong like that?

How do you get it that wrong? Yeah. Like, I mean, your point's, I think, accurate, Kipper. He's slow. It's slow. And if he's not scoring goals and he's not going to be physical for you, then what's the utility?

How did you arrive at that decision where you thought it fits the construct of your team? I think general managers sometimes look at the best version of a guy game and go, if we get that, we're good. And he was a part of a line with, I think, Teddy Bluger and Hoaglander, maybe, some sort of, like, really competitive third line where those two guys went and got pucks and hounded it and got it.

And he kind of, you know, he existed within that framework and it helped him. I don't think he drove it necessarily. And, yeah. Well, he benefited it because obviously, statistically he was good. He was good in Vancouver. He was productive. Yes. He was productive.

I mean, there's no, there's a reason he got the contract he got in a sense. but I don't know, it just, it does feel like a square peg round hole situation. They're struggling to find that spot. Joshua said, I'm feeling there's a lot more season that needs to be played out. It's been a struggle at the start. Only thing is it's only up, or a good thing is that it's only up from here. Team-wise, we're in a spot. This doesn't have to be the end of the story.

There's more to be written. He says his current focus is on making more plays and being a driving force out there. I don't need them to make any plays. And that's not to suggest he's the only one here. Nick Waugh has had a lot of games where I've seen no pace out of him either and there's a number of guys including Max and including

Machelli who've been underwhelming in that department so if they if they somehow can regroup tonight and start picking up the pace as a team maybe it'll be easier for him to kind of latch

on instead of having so many guys suffering with them at the same time yeah it's funny like this song I like this healthy scratch for him. Yeah, I do too. I really do. And I like your point in that it feels like this can be a turning point. Okay, the guys came back.

They're feeling a little bit better. You know, what's interesting is the smaller guys kind of can drive some of this pace. Like Robertson on the top line is a bit of a motor. You know, and Cowan on the second line, he's a bit of a motor. They kind of have at least a couple of guys who got some go-go in them. And then Yarn Kroc can do that alongside Lottin and Lorenz as well. I like that line. It's reliable.

Okay, I want to have a conversation. You got something? I was going to go further on your point of calling it kind of a reset day or moment for them, it feels like a bit of an inflection point. Because now there are no more excuses of even saying. I think we're past the excuse point. But now you can't just cite the injuries, right? You can't rhyme off, well, look at who's missing.

They're still missing guys, sure. But now you've got your main horses in there. So you're past, you're beyond the point now of saying, well, you got to wait until you see what 34 looks like when he comes back. How about when you do get, you know, more. depth down the middle. Waugh comes back and Nyes, who's a power forward and a guy that really broke out last year. That's all going to happen.

So this is the inflection point of them dictating. What is the next course of action here? Are you turning it around or does Bradtree Living and Company have to make maybe some more challenging decisions here as we progress a little bit further into the season? Absolutely. Okay. You want more Matthews? You want to talk about Matthews a little bit more coming back, including the Zedorov hit?

or are you okay with that? Did you hear his take on the Zatara? I did not. No. It's interesting. Okay, let's have a listen. I mean, I'm three feet away from the boards and he hits me in, you know, the numbers. But, you know, I know his game and, you know, he likes to play hard and, you know, you respect

that, but at the same time, I mean, maybe I could have put myself in a better position knowing that he's out there, you know, to put myself. away from getting hit like that but then it's hockey and you know you go through it and it's all good I mean it's a couple weeks ago and you just kind of move past it and do what you can to get back

and like I said I'm feeling good and excited to get back in the lineup. He almost said something inflammatory and then he realized it was going to be inflammatory and he reeled it back in but he didn't like the hit no for sure he didn't but he was nice at least he took a stance he got something

out of him he did take a stance but then he was like I don't want to deal with this next time I play Boston. He reeled it in. He was like, you know, well, you know, he hits me from behind three feet from the boards in the numbers. But I respect his game and did the whole, you know, it didn't like. I don't know that he said he respects his game. He says, I know his game.

A little different thing. Okay. So let's, let's leave that because maybe I'm going to revisit that a little bit here. But I want to get into Matthew Nyes, who's, for all intent purposes before he got hurt, I think people would look at his point totals and say, yeah, good start to the season. I'm the only one who's been no, no, no, no, I want to get to this, but you've been on this that you haven't particularly liked his game despite this career best start from a production point of view. But he's back now. Let's go to Craig Brooby on Nyes, and then I'm going to ask

you in terms of what you hadn't liked about his game before he got hurt. I think it's right at camp it was you know something going on but didn't keep him out of the lineup you know but nagging things like that can affect you

over time because it's constant it's every day it's not getting better it's not going away so hopefully he's cleared up there and he's he's a he's 100% yeah that that actually makes me feel better. I feel better

that he's been kind of battling something because you know what I haven't seen recklessness in a way that I used like a in a positive way

like a big man like that that just flies in on the forecheck and throws himself at someone who you know the times we've seen him fight the time we've seen him

take the puck to the net I haven't seen that sort of utter abandon out of him he's been good he's a good hockey player but I haven't seen that recklessness

I don't know if you ever will i mean i think he's been this is the part that drives me nuts with him is that you see that he can can you know he's physically capable of it he's built like a brick house

and you know that and you know you want to talk about a key moment in someone's career i'll go back to Vegas and white cloud and the fight yeah and that was was like a wow moment for all of us he was pissed off he knew exactly what he wanted to do going

into that game he slept on it he ate meals on it and he went out there and he just looked at a guy and said all right yeah okay so going back to zadoroff and matthews like isn't that the time to treat Zadorov like White Cloud for him in that game? Who? Matthews? No. Nyes. Oh, you want Nyes to say to Zadorov. Hey, pal.

That's a big boy. But you'll do it for yourself, but you won't do it for your captain. Like, this is the part that I'm watching Nyes and I'm like, okay, I get it. Your personality isn't a Matthew Kachuk where you're just going to constantly drive everybody nuts and call them on everything. And I get that.

But like, I don't know, once every four or five games maybe or, you know, what's good is if you have a couple of White Cloud fights, then they know that you're capable to do than that. And then you could actually look at somebody and turn down the temperatures without ever dropping your gloves because they know that you have that in you. Well, it becomes, you know, Clark Gillies back in the day, Tom Wilson today, where eventually you're controlling the game when you're out there just by going, no, no, no, no. And he could be, he could be the Leafs, Tom Wilson. Yeah. But he, I don't know what he wants to do.

I don't know how he wants to play and what he thinks he's going to, where he's going to get his. I want to score 80 points. All right, but not, but not that other stuff. Well, it depends. Yeah, no. I. So for 7.5 million, we're just going to hope and pray that you find a way to score 75 or 80 points,

but not really get your nose as dirty as we saw again. Vegas and White Cloud. I've actually, I feel some sympathy for guys who are physically big but just want to be hockey players. And everyone goes, you could be so much more. You know, my college hockey roommate was a 6 foot four centerman. And, you know,

everyone's going, you know, be mean. We want you to, you know, getting you in the American League, want you to fight. And it's like, he's a great player and one face offs and all that stuff. But that just, you know, he wasn't that guy. That's not how he was wired. Imagine how Matthews would have felt if he,

took care of Zadorf at any point during that hockey game. But does it need to be nice? Well, but it can be and they don't have any other options. No, you're right. And I go, yes, it needs to be him. Sure. It needs to be head. Well, you know, you think of Wendell Clark in Toronto Maple Leafs fans.

Wendell wasn't blessed with the gifts of Matthew Nyes size-wise, right? No, I don't think so. No. Like, what would Wendell have been with the physical brawn of Matthew Nyes? A complete menace is what he'd have been. Oh, my gosh. It had been unfair. And so for not.

I think people are looking at him going, we know what you can do. But, you know, then there's this whole debate. He's a great offensive two-way guy. You don't break in his hand and getting concussions and fights. Like, I don't know, Kip. I don't know. I get what you're saying, what he could do, what he could be.

Can you do it a few times just to let people know it's an option? My favorite part of that in terms of endorsing it would be what you said about Tom Wilson, Borny. Who's the other guy you named? Well, my father-in-law, Clark-Killis, back in the day, which makes sense. I'm sure there were a lot of those guys back then, too. But the ability to police the game within the game. Because how many times you're going to be the big dog in there?

Right, yeah. Four? So if you do it, that's the biggest. I think for me that would be if it's tipping me. It was that white cloud fight for knives was the start of building a really good reputation. Sure. And he didn't, he hasn't followed up on it. And he's just let it like drift into the wind.

But curious if he has been feeling off. Does that have any impact? Like if he's been dealing with nagging, whatever, he just hasn't had that. Because there were times, Kip, where he would take that puck clean across the net. You know, like hit guys hard. I just felt like that element of his game

hasn't been there this year. Tom Wilson fights by year. Last year, he had four fights. Four. Four. Four the year before. Four that felt like 40. Right.

Yeah. Four, five, four, six, four. Like, that's. What is that? Like, once every. Month and a half, two months? Yeah, once you're 20 games. Control your snapbox.

He doesn't have to do it often. He just has to, this is a pick your spot league right now. I didn't get that luxury as much. You got your spot picked. Well, who knows? Maybe when they face the Bruins next time around and the captain made some comments now and somebody will respond. Maybe it's not.

You made a valid point, you know, maybe he's protecting himself. Maybe he signs his contract right now and he goes, like, you know, I don't want to start my new contract. concussed, you know, and hurt and I'm going to play within my boundaries, not anyone else's. But that does bring in to light exactly what you're talking about. Do you have a guy who is protecting himself or do you have a guy who's laying it out there, which, you know, it depends what you want to see at a guy. Why don't we listen to Matthew and I's, just on how he's been dealing with his injury?

Probably over a month, to be honest. Yeah, it was a while, but, you know, it just was getting worse worse and worse and to the point where obviously I couldn't play. So I just had to take care of it and take some time. Is this something you have to manage moving forward or did the time off kind of put it away? Yeah, time off did a good job. You know, I think I can manage it well. But I'm sure I don't have to worry about it since I took this time to kind of heal it up and get it back to, you know, where it needs to be to play and to make an impact on the ice. So yeah, I'm just going to take good care of it um and yeah move forward

all right is that groin yeah he he tweaks something and I don't know I mean it's too bad you lost him for how long it was he out two weeks

yeah something like that I think it was I think it was just a little bit less than Matthews yeah a little bit less to Matthews Matthews was November 11th yeah carlo skating yeah he was seen on the ice today he skated so that that one's coming back yeah still no tannib's a little worrisome

yeah you hear anything on that from no i'm not other than that uh you know for for team that desperately needs them not to put them in a position of uh coming back too soon uh i think speaks to the seriousness of it like did i wonder if they would get to a point where they'd say LTIR we got some money to spend here We watched the man Carried off on a stretcher Yeah 12 days after a concussion Right like we have no idea what that could mean

From head to probably Toe like let's be honest Who knows what he's dealing with And you know something that's serious Where you need to mobilize the neck I mean I don't know if his season's in jeopardy But certainly The concern is that

that he's dealing with something serious now. Yeah. That's the concern. Well, yeah. So they'll be careful with him. I obviously not expecting to see him until, God, I don't know, at least next year. So I don't mean next season. I mean, the actual.

20, 26. 2026. What else? Well, I guess, you know, the idea of Machelli being out for me is I'm not as, I think it's probably good. Like, what's the harm or whatever? But I don't know if you happen to see quotes today where he was talking about trying to make it work in the Toronto Maple Leaf system with Craig Ruby as a coach. He says, you want to make a play, and that's what's expected of you. But then at the same time, you don't want to turn it over at the blue line.

So he says, they want you to make plays, but they don't want you to turn the puck over. And then he laughed. This is an athletic article. Definitely not easy, but it's something I've been working on my whole career, so pretty used to at this point. But he's like, they want me to make plays, but they don't want me to turn it over. You can't have it both ways. that's not how playmaking works. What do you want me to be here?

You know, reading that article, they're like, they want to be hard on pucks and competitive and make plays and not turn it over. And he's like, ah. And then he's like, I turn it over and now I'm going to be sitting. Yeah.

Yeah, that's exactly. That's what he's thinking. He can't be the only one. No, and you know what? If you look at the top turnovers per game, guys, it's all the best players in the league. They all get a past, right? That's, we understand that.

So to be a skill guy who then loses the luxury of getting to turn the puck over, it's a very tough spot to be in. And I think Max Domi suffers from that too. He's a playmaker who sometimes I come on here and go, ah, he throws it away. You got to give some of those guys longer leashes.

It's not hard to see how Michelli was scratched 34 times last season. No, it's not hard to see. But I do, I will say, I see some, like I like the player, I can see how he can create, I like his competitiveness. I think he's got life to him. Sure. There's something there with him. I don't know if he'll get there.

Skill, creativity. Yeah. But if you're not in a role that suits that type of skill set, hey, what are you going to do? Yeah. The question is, can you find it in time here? Yeah. I don't know. We should have you do that read.

Oh, yeah. And then we get to simmer on the other side of the break. Are you producing? Well, it's 430. I'm just keeping an eye on where we're at here. Good job, Borny. 50-50. Sick kids.

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oh thank you error free did you go to school for that uh that's a good question kipper not not really not really in a way yes but not fully stumble into this can you teach sammy no sammy he doesn't want to learn. Sammy's fine. Sammy's got the gift of gap. He does. He's got something right now. Hacking and coughing.

Poor guy. He was hurting yesterday. I definitely brought it from my children. He finished the game, though. Let's give him credit. He finished the game. He did finish the game, yeah. Well, probably making us sick.

Now he's on IR, yeah. It's okay, Samuel. We hope you're listening. He's not. No, he's not. He's resting. I'm on leave. Okay.

we'll take a quick break and when we return Craig Simpson joins us he'll be calling the game tonight leaps and blue jackets on sports net back after these words everything you need to know about the raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA Smith and Jones subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts Welcome back to the program at Kiprios, J.B. Disco, Dan. Just sitting on our next guest, Greg Simpson, who we'll be calling the game tonight out of Columbus. Columbus, oh, sorry. A game that we believe that if you were to look at the next five games, J.B.

obviously what's the number in terms of coming home off of this five game trip for you you need like the minimum of six points but you got to win this game this game is must win let's talk to someone who knows more about stuff than I do all right Stanley Cup champion Craig Simpson joins us now getting ready to call the game

Maple East and the Blue Jacket Simmer thanks for joining us man how are you I'm doing great guys how are you doing Okay, so lots of news, positive for the Maple Leafs. They get their captain back, Matthew Nyes, Nick Waugh. Is it too much of a stretch for me to ask you, Simmer, if this is their true and only one chance for a new first impression of the season? Yeah, can you look like a different team, I guess, is what you're looking at. They haven't been the form of themselves that they thought they would be

or that they want to be. And so I think you always have these critical moments in the early part. Now, we're past the early part. You know, you get to the quarter pole and you've got a sense of what's missing, what's been positive. And unfortunately, there's been more in the what's missing than in the positive. So I do think every guy has looked at, you know, kind of a strange start to the season with not much long road trips at least

to get together as a team. they haven't had any success on the road going what one and six and their seven so you haven't even had a chance to be together and feel good about each other and you guys both know that's part of being a team too i mean the collective energy of the guys the individuals drags the entire team up to a higher level if everybody's feeling bad about their game and has nothing positive going in their psyche or in their confidence level man it's it's hard to dig yourself out of the whole. So I think this is the perfect time with, what, three games and four nights where you say, okay, guys, this could turn the season to a disaster, right? When you've got the three games

and four nights and you lose them all, it's like how further deep can you dig yourself? But I think every guy is a professional and understands the opportunity. You get three new bodies back in the lineup, which should give you some energy. And you have to, you know, present yourself tonight, like forget about the must win mentality it's the I got to do something to guarantee a win for us like I got it now this has got to be my best game of the year and I think it starts with Matthews coming back and you know being hopefully a guy that can raise his level which raises everyone else's to follow along but I don't think there's any question guys they know the severity of you know not that you're looking at standings this early in the year, but they've seen it enough. You don't want that Maple Leaf at the bottom of the Atlantic or even the Eastern Conference. And you've got to find a way to turn it around.

And three games and four nights is a beautiful opportunity to do so. Simmer, I'm trying to make sense of like what this team really is on a true talent level because I can look back to the start of the year and make excuses for them all the way and say, a bunch of new guys trying to learn the new system, not quite fitting in. injured at this point the you know bad luck goal tending whatever you know do you see a world where that's all true where they get healthy

and the new guys start to feel more comfortable and this all sort of comes together or do we think they're legitimately a considerably worst team than they were last season I think I listened to you guys earlier I think there's no question they're a slower team and whether that's just physically

from the personnel but quite frankly it's their method of play right now they're disjointed they're not connected. You know, I look at their back end with the situation they have with some injuries and some veterans, you know, being out of the lineup. There's no continuity there. There's no connection between the forwards and D. And I see often the D looking up and there's no one to give it to or guys stretched out, well, when you don't have the threat of the D man being the mobile person that can beat that first four checker and now open up some ice,

so that the defense can't pinch up on the forwards that are stretching out, you know, the opposite is happening. You're making a, you either don't have anyone to pass to, and they're on an island and don't have the ability to beat that first or second four checker one-on-one. And now, of a sudden, your game is slow, your game is retreating, you're not coming up with any speed, you can't gain the zone to get puck possession in the offensive zone. And just go back to Saturday, look at the difference of those top two D pairs for, Montreal and just the problems they gave the defense for the Leafs and the mobility they had to

carry the puck through. It forced the D to back off the line and it was an easy entry each and every time. It really stuck out to me that that's just simply not part of the Leaf's DNA right now. They don't have it and it's evident in the way that they're not getting any kind of speed through the neutral zone. You know, as every coach has always told you, the puck is the fastest thing on the ice. So they have to have some good puck support, the toes support. Can you make those three, four support passes from your D zone through the neutral zone that allows you to move the puck from side to side quickly without maybe not having one guy carrying it through? But until they can start getting some consistency in that,

the problem that they've had is they haven't had that offensive zone puck possession time where they can continually break the puck out of their end, get on the attack, and be offensive-minded. Granted, they've been able to score goals, but I do think that's been a part of their lack of speed, and that's hurt their overall game. They've been back on their heels. They've been trapped in their own zone. And guys, as we've seen in far too many games this year, that has been so evident in the second period where they've just been hemmed in. I think I did three games in a row where there was a goal scored when guys had been a minute 40 to 212 on the ice because they can't get the damn puck out of their own zone.

trapped and it ends up in the back of the net. You're listening to Craig Simpson. He'll be calling the game tonight for the Maple Leaf's Jackets game on sports set. So Simmer, I mean, in the past, we've been on teams where we look out and see a top player coming back into the lineup. Macea sure would make a lot of guys feel good when you see him in the dress room. What does Matthews do now to come back in after two weeks? And of course, there were some struggles beforehand, but, you know, what do expect out of Matthews tonight and is there a chance that he might put too much

pressure on himself to come in and be a difference maker right away? Well, show me a great leader that doesn't want to have the pressure heaped on his shoulders and I'll show you a guy who's not a great leader, right? Like, I think you want that. You're

itching to go in. When we're the cup chance in 90, we started the next year two, two, two, and two, and mess got hurt and we lost nine and row. And so we were in this kind of situation where we're the defending champs, we're in the bottom and how are we ever going to make the playoffs. But, you know, when MESS did come back, it just gives your team that calmness of, okay, we've got our best player, we've got our, you

know, our energy guy. And we just said we've got to find a way to pick it up, string some games together. And it's a collective thing. So if I look at my captain coming back tonight, I don't think as a teammate, I'm saying, well, you're going to do it all. I go, what can I do to make this a positive for him tonight, too? And, you know, we talked about, or Triliving talked about changing the DNA. The hard thing with Austin is it's not his DNA to be the, you know, rambunctious guy. He's not a hugely vocal guy. But where he's at his best, which changes the entire makeup of how the play goes on the ice,

is when he's a threat, when he's jumping, when he's skating, when he's attacking. And when he uses those, you know, he's got his legs and his hands and his head moving in the exact same speed, that's where he's a threat. And that's what changes the way the game is played on the ice. And if you've got a guy, if Nyes is playing with him, I heard you before, you got to say, I've got to get my game where I'm going to be aggressive. I'm going to knock a few D down. Matthew's going to come, pick up the puck, we'll attack the net. I just think that you need some energy in the game. Part of playing slowly for this team.

and not playing with the pace is they're not playing with any emotion. They're not playing with any energy. You can't be a fast team or a hard team to play against if you're not seeing that energy and emotion out of everybody who's coming over the boards. And Nick, you know, that's where whatever your role is on the team, if you're a fourth line guy and you get your first shift of the game and you guys are rolling and you're in, you're dumping it in, you get a couple of hits, the coach on the bench is going, I'm going to get them back out again.

because it keeps the pressure and it keeps the cycle going and it keeps the energy of your bench up. When I, you know, when Mark Messade's line sitting waiting and the fourth line hemps the line in and gets all kinds of pressure, we might be able to jump on a guy who's been out there for a minute and a half. That brings the energy of the team up to another level. And the next line coming out is really aggressive going, great job from our fourth line guys. I'm going to follow it up and we're going to score. And on good teams, they do follow up good things. third and fourth line shifts with the top guys putting it in the back of the net.

I think that's something that's really be lacking. And for me, I want to see that from Austin. You don't have to always be, you know, a raw, raw, intense captain to be there. But it's your play and the way that you can play. And when he's at his best, he can dictate the pace of the game, play with some good speed himself, and attack the lanes and force the D to be a little bit less aggressive, which opens up ice for everyone else. Yeah, Samir, I'm going to look into this here, but, you know, last few years,

Sport Logic had cycle chances. Austin Matthews is one of the top guys in the NHL at that. This year, nowhere to be seen. And the Leafs in general create almost no cycle chances. I think because they're just probably not in the zone all that much. Yeah, 32nd in the NHL and cycle chances. So some work to do there. I did want to get your thoughts on John Tavares.

I'll read you his time on ice the last five games, 22, 2050, 23, 43, 21, 2240. A lot of ice time for John Tavares. He's been awesome for him, but boy, they got to dial him back, don't they? Yeah, and it's an aggregate problem, right? You know, you can do it with energy for a while, and John's had such a good, you know, there's a balance of, hey, I'm playing more,

but the puck's going in from the net for me. I feel better about myself. I feel good about my game. But there's also an element of reality and father time of at the best. You say that's not a sustainable number. and that's not something that if I'm Craig Barubi, you did it out of necessity without the Matthews line,

without other guys playing key minutes, but I don't think there's any question. That comfort zone for John is in that 17 to 18 and a half and picking and choosing some matchups, offensive zone opportunities, say in the second period against a matchup, that is favorable because of an icing. You know, all those little things where he is so good,

is winning those little 50-50 battles and playing with the puck in tight. But if you've got a track meet going on or a game, like even the Montreal game where it's going end to end and back and you're playing 22 or more in that, that's not a scenario that, you know, his body necessarily is made for. And I think without question, that'll ease up because of Austin. And that should allow John to be what he's been all year, really, the productive sort of second guy

and maybe getting a bit of a favorable defense matchup and winning one of those, you know, puck battles in front and scoring goals. And hopefully it'll settle in a little bit with the lineup getting a little bit healthier. Zimmer, one more for me. And J.B. just talked about Machelli and talking about just where he kind of feels

maybe he's been caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to, you know, the coach wants us to make plays, but he doesn't want us to turn the puck over. He wants us to dump it in, but I can't really make plays. Like, if you've been through that, have you gone through that? Of course, Nick. I said that that's the challenge of every talented player that arise in the NHL.

You know, you've been a great player in either junior or for me in college, your second overall, you come in with expectations. How do you make plays but gain the trust of the coach that you're not going to be a turnover machine? I heard Justin saying, of course, Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky turned the puck over more than anyone else because they had the puck 60% of the game. And they had that creativity and specialness. That's the challenge that Nick Robertson's been going through for four years here. That's what Easton Cowan is trying to learn through here. And for me, it's situational awareness.

And it's the most challenging thing for a guy to become an everyday NHLer because you have to. to have some puck management. You have to have hockey sense to know, is this a dangerous play? This might not be the time. I'm not Mario Lemieux. I'm not Wayne Gretzky. And if I do continually turn the puck over in this area, at

this time, when I'm vulnerable going back the other way, you just can't help but not gain the trust of your coach. But it's all about your decision making. And in the middle of it, which is Machelli, I think at times falls into that. It doesn't look like he's

all that intense at times. It's what's your effort, what's your energy like, and what's the intent of what you're trying to do? And then if you do turn it over, what's your reaction to it? Like there again, from a coaching perspective, you tried to make a really good play. It was a good thought. The situation was worth the risk.

You turned it over. What do you do? Do you sulk and get back, you know, are you aware of, okay, now I got to get back and make that play? And to me, again, if you're not intense and you don't have that urge, in your game. That's what drives coach is crazy and that's what's the long journey for a guy

to get a little confidence. I mean, just look at Nick Robertson. Again, I think some of the turnovers come with good intent and hard energy and now I think because he feels a little bit better about himself he's back and, you know, make the play defensively. Go back and get the puck

back again and try it all over. But that quite frankly, Nick, is the hardest thing in the National Hockey League to achieve. That's where some guys fail and can never quite figure it out. And other guys, after small time and failures and good discussions, find a way to have that balance and make it work. Zimmer, awesome stuff as always, man.

We love that you were able to squeeze us in today on our show and have a great call tonight, okay? All right, guys, thanks for having me. That is Craig Simpson. Yeah, he's right. It's got nothing to do with system. and we're talking about a hockey IQ. Yeah.

Are you smart? Make the right play. Make the right play, dummy. It's so hard. Easier son to do. Yeah, so easy to say. But I get it. 100%.

All right. He's smart man. Thanks to Craig Simpson, Leaf Hour edition in the books. So we get ready for the Blue Jackets and the Maple Leafs on SportsNet National. When we return, Eric Francis will join us as we go national.

Discussion on the Calgary Flames. What are their intentions? Should they not have the for sale sign up for some of their players? Apparently not. More of that when we return. Real Kipprin-Born goes national next.