Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Glass Half Full?

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Toronto Maple Leafs' matchup against the Columbus Blue Jackets on Wednesday as Auston Matthews, Matthew Knies and Nic Roy make their return to the ice in practice. They discuss whether Matthews should be rushed back for the Leafs' road trip and how well the team needs to play down the stretch to make a bid for the playoffs. Then, they review Kyper's trade board and discuss whether the Leafs should consider selling pieces. Later, Sportsnet's Luke Fox (31:40) weighs in on the Leafs' recent spotty practice schedule, the vibes around the team, and the latest on Anthony Stolarz and Jake McCabe.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

There we go, jam-packed two hours on the real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. You can also catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Jake. Schultz. I left the snake part out. Maybe his mom's listening.

Doesn't really appreciate me calling her son a snake. Jake, the nice guy, Schultz. He's the man. He does a fantastic daughter show. Should Sam read this before we do anything else? Tons to get into, including a read. Not yet. We'll do it before.

A read that Sammy has forgotten to read on a couple occasions. Listen, I'm forgetting a lot of things. Your brain's foggy with the cold. Can you promise me by February or March you'll get over? the blue jace loss oh okay you want to trust tree time here i really considered taking a day today i woke up this morning i felt like crap i had texted i texted our boss ryan being like yes you know i'm not feeling great yes i maybe take a day tomorrow oh listen you're a millennial of course you're going to do that and i woke up right and i woke up yeah take two days off sammy

i love you say this and i say this with gen z so we're all and then i was like you know what I can't take the day off because then Danielleie Franceschi, who is a professional, will come in and do a really great lineup, and I'll have to hear it from Cripper for three weeks. So I decided to come into work. Yeli does such a good job that made Sam come to work today. See, in my day, in my day, if we kind of compared it to playing hockey, I don't want to come out of the lineup because someone better is going to come in

and steal my job. Exactly. I didn't want to get pipped. No, no, actually steal my job. Yeah, that's what, and guess why I'm sitting here today, boys? You know, one of the crazier things just, what the hell is I going to say? Oh, no. What? Oh, you don't remember what you were going to say?

No, no, no. Just skip on. I think I better know. You're not worried about anybody stealing your job here. No. No, we're good. We actually found another lineup while you're here, Sammy, from a different show. It's pretty good, but we won't mention it.

Oh, yeah, great. Yeah, the fan hockey show. The fan hockey show. Look, it's colored. Oh, yeah. It's colored. It's got standings And it didn't forget

About you still got buried Didn't forget about the technical director's names on the lineup sheet I got to tell you right now There are people who are much better at this than me Okay Sammy I disagree Sam We know where you're true

I disagree Lie It's certainly not lie Okay tons to get into Including my first Real Kippers Trade Board on Sportsnet.com If you get a chance go through it See these are some of the names

that have stuck out For me, of course, if we're focusing on the Toronto Maple Leafs, maybe we'll get back into that a little later. I've got Brandon Carlo on the board. Of course, there's other names that could easily go, including like Nick Robertson and Max Domey, but I'm just focusing on the names that I think that, you know, could come out of the gate with some pretty good value here.

And we're happy to discuss that a little later. Not now? Nah. Not not now Not now Because I just There's so much to get into Where the Toronto Maple Leafs are going into

Tomorrow night And I'd rather start there Yep Just in terms of now The Toronto Maple Leafs had their First Full Practice Together as a team This afternoon

This morning First one since A very tough loss against Montreal Craig Barrowby I think was very positive at the conclusion, I think, or at the beginning of the skate. I'm not sure which one,

but we saw it on the internet where he basically sent the message that, boys, the glass is half full. One of my favorite replies to that I saw was full of what. Oh, that's funny. You know, it's, Is they're at a concerning crossroads?

I guess I am not as thrilled about this whole. They had a full practice today because Nyes, Matthews, and Waugh were all in gray, you know, not really officially part of things, jerseys. So, you know, were they really all together? Are those guys ready? Are they not ready?

Okay, let's go to Craig Brewers for our first clip on Matthews, Nyes, and Nick Waugh. Okay, I'm going to, Nize, Matthews, and Roisois, all practice today. Look good. They did finish practice, but still got to see both tomorrow. So that's where they're at. But it was good that they're out there

and finished practice, went through all the drills, and, yeah, so that's where they're at. So that means maybe tomorrow? Yeah, we've got to see where they're at. I'm going to be sure of at least the meeting. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But just got to see where they're at.

You know, I haven't talked to trainer, I haven't talked to those guys yet after practice, so that's something I've got to do. Okay. Have you ever practiced three times in a row and not been ready to play? Let's just break this down just a little bit more here,

just in terms of... What hell does that mean? I also thought it was funny that he was like, they practice today, so that's where they're at. Hold on for a second. What does that mean? So, so the way I interpret that is that we think that they can play. Yeah.

But we've got to pull a Sammy now and see how he feels. And if he doesn't feel right, they get to stay at home. I would say my attendance has been exemplary over our five years together. I'm just using your, I'm just, I'm just opening, I'm just using your opening. Yeah, remarks. Example. Yes. Yeah.

So we assume that they're cleared to play, that they're good enough to look good at practice. Everything's fine, but we're going to wake up tomorrow and see how they feel. Do they all have concussions? Like this is the example of you used for concussions, but... No, but you're either cleared or you're not cleared at this point. Right.

If they have concussions, they wouldn't be practiced. No, I don't think they do. I'm just saying, then why is it so... If they don't play tomorrow night, it's because they do not want to play tomorrow night. They don't feel right. They're not. That's what Craig Brube is telling us here. So my question to you is really in 24 hours that you, to your point, we could see two or three days of something.

And then in the last 24 hours, they're going to wake up and not feel right to play. that's all that's left, in my opinion, on what I heard. Is there anything else I'm missing? Well, the only thought I had is, you know, you play on Saturday night, and if you miss one game, the Wednesday, that gives you basically another week of recovery. And so like if- So why not say that they're not ready, shut them down?

Why not just shut it down? Or turn around. You think they should if they don't play? I'm just saying if you're the team and you're looking at it, you have a six-day span with just one game in the middle, where if you miss the one game, game you got a nice long so if you're like we're gonna bring them back let's just miss one more game can you decide that like a late afternoon tuesday sure could sure could have decided it sunday

so we're down to gee i hope they wake up on the right side of the bed yeah that's what we're down to it's it's pretty insane and i as a player wouldn't even like any of this i'd be like if you're the injured player yes i am i in am i if i'm saying i can go go beyond that i've been this situation before where like if he doesn't play I'm playing well can you let me know I'd like to know if I'm going to be a healthy scratch too this isn't just one person right this is like

this could affect three or four of them right so it's like do I have to come to the rink see how you feel and if you're not in I'm in yes and it's like okay I'll do my best but boy I would have like to have a good night's rest knowing I'm playing the night before I have a hard time because, you know, the Matthew's stuff has been well documented with his privacy and the way he wants to be treated

in terms of injuries and letting stuff get out and we all understand that. But do Matthew Nyes and Nick Waugh have that exact same mentality? Like there's some, there's a disconnect or a real connect, one of the other, between players, coaches, training staff, management. It just, it's all, they just want it to be the biggest mystery possible. It is. If I'm Burubi, today I'm going, yeah, I expect them to play.

Yeah. And let them pull themselves out then. Then you got to come back to me and you got to say, no, I don't feel well. Yeah, I hope. And then turn around and say, and then call it for what it is. He felt he wasn't ready. We're going to give him until Saturday. Yep.

Okay. Sure. And that's allowed. You're allowed to say this guy didn't feel ready to go. So that's why he's not playing. The thing that scares me is like, okay, so you call. called today a return with the full team and all those guys are on the ice. One of the lines was Robertson-Domey Yarncrock today.

Which, what is that? Not great. Like, are they assuming one or two of these guys will be back and today's lines meant nothing maybe? That's, I actually think that's probably it, where they're like the lines. Don't mean anything. We can't put these guys in. What is the second line if those guys can't play tomorrow night?

Okay, enough to say. Can I ask? I don't know. Yeah, we don't know. Is there a reason they're not put, given Lawton, more of a look higher in the top six here with so many guys out? Like, I think he's a guy that all three. I think he'd welcome it.

I think all three of us have liked him in his start to his season. I know it was choppy. He got hurt to start, gets hurt again. But since he's been back, I think he's shown speed, he's shown aggression, he's shown the ability to dig. Yeah. I'm putting him up in the top six. There is the matter of just, does it matter where these guys are written up?

Because if you're going to say, okay, let's put him on the second line, build the second line with Lawton at center. To me, it's McMahon on the wing and, I don't know, Robertson, he's got McMahon on his one wing. It could be Lorenz on the other wing, you know, so I don't know that there's a clear. I would just like Lawton to be playing more than. 17 minutes as opposed to having Domi being on the second line playing center when it looks like he doesn't want to,

he doesn't enjoy doing that to me. That's what it looks like to me. All right, let's go to Craig Bruby on his sense of the group where they are right now. Clip two. What's your sense of the group? Well, I thought it was good. It was positive. We had a real good meeting this morning and going over some stuff and what we've got to be better at

and where we will be better at. I thought the vibe was good and guys were good and good practice. It's good hard practice. We're talking about practice. I think it's tough to argue with the idea. that, like, positivity is the only way to kind of plow ahead here. But it just doesn't seem like who he is. Like, I'm sure he's frustrated, Craig Barubi.

But, like, you kind of have to go into this. Can't be in there miserable every day. No, you can't. But the ones that really are the most dangerous for your mind are the ones that don't say anything at all. so you're not coming in positive you're not coming in negative you're just coming in

yeah coach just even keel doesn't matter well just not even even keel it's like here's the drills let's go and there's nothing more than that where it's like makes people nervous

makes people nervous does he like me does he not like me like I'd keep them all guessing instead of playing the positive card right now and I'm not saying to play the negative card either but the ones that are most dangerous as a coach to a player's mindset are the ones that you can't read and i'd rather him being silent now yeah than positive because you do you turn it in on yourself like all of us with our neuroses being like oh boy yeah oh boy i think they should

have an they should all be feeling oh boy yeah do you want to hear the other is they because i mean like you said that ought to tell or did you say that about the glass half full do you say that on air. We talked about it off there. So clip nine, play the clip of him talking about the glass half full there. Okay. Always good. After practicing, glass half full. Yeah. That's

where you've got to look at things. Class is half full. We've got an opportunity to go here tomorrow and get two points and that's got to be our focus and then we'll go from there to the next game. Yep. But if there's a chance that it doesn't turn

around you know can you keep playing the glass half full moving forward like i mean it's just a long year right if you're not good but is this now the time to do that is is he feeling like they're most vulnerable right now that you they need a pat on the back i think sometimes when coaches sense that not that it's hopeless but that you're severely disadvantaged their injury situation right now being without you know to your top three centers and your top winger

top D I feel like it's almost like a pity thing where it's like I don't think it's fair of me to squeeze these guys when we may not have the horses right now and that's why you got to just leave as is the only true card that they can

play outside of you know I don't expect anything to happen imminently on a trade is you got no choice but to get healthy guys back in and just see what it looks like. I think Sam's point that he keeps making off air is reasonable. If these guys are close, they should play.

Sorry to throw him under the bus. But no, it's... Okay, now that he's thrown me out of the bus, I don't say it. Like, your team's floundering. You are about to embark on the biggest road trip of the year. Maybe you have your whole tenure here. You are laugh. with the season teetering on a very, very big cliff.

I'd like to see them play tomorrow night. Yes. Like, if you're practicing three days in a row, I don't know if it's too much to ask for the fans to want to see the captain in the game. We don't, you know, is it 100% you're looking for? Because there's a lot of Lee fans that'll take you at 70 right now. And it's not playoffs.

It's not do or die. But it does kind of feel like that. You lose tomorrow night, then you're two games under 500, and then you're going to Washington, going to Pittsburgh, into, like, into tougher places to play. Like, I know they're not world beaters, but they're better than you. But it's also this time of year,

over the past X amount of years, four years, November has been where the lease have gone, okay, we're just going to separate from the pack. And then when you have a three game losing streak later in the year, whatever, it can make it a lot easier. The opposite has happened here. And so instead of getting to a point where it's like, eh, not, you know, sometimes you lose.

You're getting to a point where you can't afford those stretches of play and you need some wins. Yeah, so. And it is a little daunting right now when you factor in that the easiest part of the schedule is just kind of gone. And

a half full, half empty. Can we do the half full part? Love the half full part. Okay. Three games in a row. Win three games in a row. And what is it? do to change your season? Yeah.

Three. You're not asking for a ton here. I know that they're, okay, Columbus right now doesn't sound like Werencky's going to play tomorrow night? I've seen both sides. I saw that maybe he would play and that maybe not play. Okay. Maybe not at 100%.

Olivier left the game last night too. He's a, he's a, maybe a window there. And then you've got the weekend, Washington, just starting to probably feel good. Pittsburgh's kind of are they wobbling a little bit pit so three games in a row there's your there's your glass half full yeah okay the half empty part is there's 60 games left what do you think it's going to take to make the playoffs like 36 26 you know like some sort of like well above 500 tell me how many points

You're trying to get to 91 points. I think that's 35 wins from now. Okay, let's say 92. Yeah. 92. What is that percentage clip? 610, 615. Can this team go 610, 615 starting tomorrow night?

Yes, they can't. Not assuming they're on the verge of healthy here. They've got guys who are about to come back. You know, I see no signs of that based on what I've seen for 22 games, but I don't know what the rest of the leagues can. Like, don't put me on an island here where I look like a crazy person saying a team with this roster is decent.

Like, they lost Mitch Marner, and that's substantial. I will never downplay that. Machelli can't score. They had 108 points last year. You know, do you think there's something an 88 point team? Are they 30 points worse? I think they've gotten slower.

Yeah, I don't think they're better either. I think they're worse, too. They've gotten slower, and I don't know outside of Willie and Tavaris where the offense is going to come from. Okay, but you're aware of Austin, Matthews, Matthews, as you've heard of them before. I have, yeah.

So they can get points. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Just take the gray jersey off any time. I know, but in theory, I'm doing a theory where they are hockey players. Yeah.

You know, in the world where they don't have those guys, they stink. They're brutal without Nathan's. he's a nice and tannive and tannib who doesn't look like he's tanav's long term i'm worried about him is that right like this i'm worried about like just long term for him yeah i worry to you know hearing the whispers of having the word neck involved i think of jake mousin and that was the end of jake mousin with the leaves i got to tell you like you i've been negative about this team clearly and like

I've had my worries, but I've never been more worried than the way you just put it there, Kibber. About, like, the 6-10 winning percentage to, like, get into the playoffs. That 6-10's not crazy, is it? It feels crazy right now. It does. It feels very... The islanders have a 6-10. They're 13, 8, and 2 on the year.

Okay, that makes you feel a little better. You know, 6-10 is 12, 7 and 4 Minnesota Wild. Okay, make me feel a little better. 6-10 is 11, 6 and 6. What's Colorado? Colorado is 841. Oh, okay. 16-1 and 5.

That feels a little on a table. The glass half full, if I may, for my glass half full, the one that I've said early in the season and people have, I love when people tweet my own takes back to me as one of my favorite things. But this team has always blown through the regular season and there's never been any adversity and they've been one of the top three spots in the Atlantic every single year all the way down the stretch just fighting for seeding. Like there is a world to me where they get healthy And they scrap and claw And they have to play these high intensity games down the stretch And they find their way into the wild card And they take a different route for once

Where maybe it looks a little bit different That's one glass outful that I have Hey, that like Maybe you play your way into the metro As a wild card Think about what I mean, I'm not saying they're the Florida Panthers But think about what the Florida Panthers When Paul Maurice

When Banana lands When Red Face on the bench That team stunk all year And got hot at the end of the year Got in, got hot and when on a run, I'm not saying that that's them, but there is a different route here that they could potentially take that may be a little bit different.

That's my, as full as my glass can get. All right. And if things don't go perfectly, they're boned. They're done. They're done. They're done. But anyways. And they've got Joseph Wall back. Yeah, this is the problem is there's no stolars to be found.

Let's go to Craig Broby on Joseph Wall, clip four. he's been solid and it's been very good for our team getting him back in you know and then just his battle level like he was so pissed off of me for pulling him the other night but i like that and you know he wanted to be in there and fight and that's good did he understand why oh yeah for sure he did but he wants to be in our fight that's great i like the wall one to be in there they're just going to lean on him so hard here even if Stolars like he hasn't Boys he hasn't skated in two weeks They should trade for a goal Here we go again

They should try to find a goalie Ask Oilers fans how easy that is Well no but like a third string guy You're gonna just I guess he'll be just as good as any third string guy I don't know I mean I genuinely don't know maybe You don't know that you're just hoping

Valley doesn't love Hill to be He's never said he's never been a behestrian He's not ready right now to play in the National Hockey League full-time or even back up, is my opinion. He's capable of maybe playing a game, you know, but it's hard to hang your hat on that. Yeah. And they are, boys, playing a ton of hockey beliefs. Yeah. Like, you know, I, just looking at their schedule, like, you know, they had a nice little break here,

but it's a back-to-back this weekend, Friday, Saturday. and then it's Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Monday, Thursday, Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday. Like, it's just, it's three times a week every week until Christmas. Yeah. Joseph Wall is going to play 85% of those games, I guess. That's just ridiculous for a guy who's still has, you know, an injury prone type of reputation. But they have no other option. What's the other option?

He'll be four times? Yeah, somebody, you got to hope and pray some. Is Prima with the Marley? No, he's gone. He's gone. He's claimed by, yeah, that's right. Carolina, who claimed him? Carolina, it's Achtiamov.

Double A. Yeah. It's, it's crazy that they haven't had wool and stole ours healthy not for one hockey game this year. Is it that crazy? No, it's not that crazy because we've talked about them both being injury prone. No, it's crazy. It's crazy that they haven't over two months now. There hasn't been a day where you could make a pick and say one of the other.

That's a lot. no i i i honestly don't think it's that i i cannot uh bye god i feel like it's two against one all week i feel bad okay i'm here representing the the positive people out there uh this had a positive peter spin good good news mccabe yeah he's back and can we talk about your trade list a little bit before yeah absolutely uh just a reminder uh i've got my first real kipper trade board on sportsnet I do have one Toronto Maple Leaf Carlo on it of course plenty of speculation

on what they can do with Robertson or Domi or anybody else but Carlo to me is still a very attractive piece for other teams. Let me read a little something here

there's a strong suggestion in Toronto Buffalo we're in talks over having Carlo involved in a J.J. Paterka trade and then moving Carlo towards a Carlo for a Bowen Byram type trade over the summer. Bowen Byron? Oh, would that have been a nice change of pace around here? What happened?

Yes, somebody got cold feet and pulled it. I would imagine it would be Kevin Adams. Being like, I can't trade another young guy. Yeah. I don't think that's right. I cannot confirm or deny that, but

someone suggested to me maybe even the Leafs weren't prepared to do that. Yeah. Interesting. It just would have been nice to have a different look, an offensive. Okay, I'll tell you what it would have done. It would have alleviated some pressure off Morgan Riley. That's what Byron would have done. Or eventually go back to Morgan Riley and say, buddy, it's been well over 10 years.

How about a fresh start somewhere else? It's just not working here. I would have loved, I'm not going to lie, like I looked at your piece and I saw all the names. I would have loved a couple more leads on there. I would. Yeah. The problem is you're thinking of trading guys out.

They're in last place. Is it? They're in last place. Chinikov for Robertson. That one, again, somebody pulled it off at the last second. That should have happened. That could have been done. You know, would that have satisfied you?

No, I think they should be looking at trading. guys that are on their roster for picks. That's kind of where I'm at. Boston did this exact same thing last year, and now they're back in playoff position. Buddy, do not hold up the Boston Bruins as a pitcher of like, here come the Bruins. No, no, no.

They traded their all-time... They're better than we thought. Yes. They are better than we thought. Yeah, totally. But what's the point? What's the... You know, no team in their right mind

with a prime age Austin Matthews and William Neelander and you know David Pasternak and Charlie McAvoy Those guys aren't the same And even still you can go to Tavares And you can go your four guys deep there You're not you have too many good pieces To tear it down to the studs It doesn't it's not even an option when you have all that

I'm not saying tear it down to the studs But there is a great chance for a soft reset here And to be not lose the sixth overall pick I will have that in two months I will have that conversation with you in February of March Absolutely it's insane to think about it in November We have time to make up. You know, and what was the feedback you got off of firing Burubi yesterday?

You know, mixed. I think a lot of fans are the same as me where it's, maybe it's not fair to him, but I think people see how it can make sense. I think a lot of fans don't want to bail out this core again. You know, there's a... Yeah, you're really going back to this. Without Marner, they're still the same guys who...

It's not. Don't yet that. Couldn't get the job done. James Myrtle wrote something today and talked about coaches since Austin Matthews has come into the league. And organizationally, only three teams have had fewer coaches than the Leafs over this time. They haven't been bailing this team out. Avalanche. Cup winners.

Avalanche, Colorado. Oh, sorry, Tampa. Cup winners. St. Louis. And no. Florida. Florida, I think, is one. And then there's also one other that.

Are you talking about a coaching change? Who's had less than three. The Leafs have had three coaches since Austin. Matthews, which came into the league, and it's three teams. I think, sorry, I think it's four teams and three of one cups. Yeah. So the point is that, like, those are the only teams that are hanging on to coaches. Otherwise,

the average for coaches is two, two and a half seasons. And so this Leaves team, they haven't had that many coaches. It's not like it's been every two years. It's interesting. Yeah, but. It's a good angle. A new coach would be Austin's fourth. Which is below

average for the NHL over that 10-year span. So I'm just saying it's not revolutionary here. I tend to agree with Brad Tree Living that a coaching change, I don't see a big huge difference. And I look at the New York Rangers, J.B., with Sullivan going in there. Kate, did this guy become one of the dumbest coaches in the last three months?

They kind of still look the same, the Rangers. Their underlying numbers are really good. So you want to bring DeBore in, it's like watching the Rangers bring Sullivan in and I'm like, I don't see a big difference. Yeah, maybe. You're not any worse, are you? You know, and to me, at least you're trying something else.

My whole thing, though, with Perubi is it would be unfair to him right now. They had a great year last year. This year, they were 10 games and then everyone's hurt. And their goal is made no saves. So give him some health, healthy bodies. Big trip. And then you'll fire him. But yeah, give him 10 games here.

and if they're healthy and they stink for 10 more games, I mean, I'm not advocating for it by any stretch. I don't know what the right option is, but I just know if you're not rebuilding, you're not doing a soft reset, you can't wait until January to do it if you're going to do it. We should go, get to Luke, but who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best thing this holiday season?

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Standard message and data rates may apply lottery license, RAF-151-8-4-10 fellows. What would you do with 100 grand, Sam? Yeah, I don't know Be happy I'm not like I take a day off from us Maybe buying Maybe buying some new hockey gear

Could use some new wheels Nice All right we'll take a quick break When we return Sportsnet.ca's very own Luke Fox will join us The Leafs practice today But they still chose rest Over

I don't know Working on the power play We'll get Luke's thoughts on that more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Matt Marquesie. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world.

Weekdays at noon. It's the fan hockey show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kibrio's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Leaf Hour edition. Let's welcome in Luke Fox,

Leif, and NHL writer for Sports. Postnet.ca. Luke, how are you, man? I'm doing well. How are you guys? So Saturday to Wednesday and really today's the only real practice under their belt. Is this, are you in favor of this rest over a critical road trip coming up?

Not really. I think there's too many issues that they probably should have practiced in full yesterday. I mean, Sunday is a day off, right? It's mandated in the CBA that teams get a day off per week, a full day off, and you can't argue against it. But myself, my colleagues arrived yesterday morning at Ford Performance Center, fully expecting, like, okay, that was a brutal loss in Montreal.

The coach, you know, called them out for, you know, not playing like a veteran team, a little bit of panic as soon as they went down a couple of goals in the first period. you would expect all hands on deck, trying to work their way out of it. Instead, it was more of a developmental practice, is what they called it. They didn't want to call it an optional. And, you know, so you had a couple deep pairs working on stuff with one coach on this pad and other guys working on their shot or their wall pickups over there. But they weren't together as a team.

And the guys who logged a lot of minutes stayed off the ice entirely. It was a little bit curious, for sure. Now, you know, you'd like to think that the team knows what the guys need better than someone on the outside like we do, but, you know, special teams need work. It's not like you have to go and do a million battle drills and tires yourself out. I just thought it might have been a moment for some team togetherness and try to smooth out some of the kinks here because there's more than just one. Luke, I know Scott Lotton said all the right things today just about, you know, how to manage these tough streaks and sort of holding yourselves accountable,

but still not applying too much pressure. You're around the team quite a bit. What is the vibe? Do you sense outside of Lotton frustration with the, whether it's coaching staff, the way things are going or are things, glass half full around there? No.

I think if they're half full, the coach doesn't have to come out and tell you to look at, things half full right you just are you just are looking at it half right uh no it's it's downbeat um i haven't sensed like crazy frustration it sounds like guys are banging their their sticks against the the boards or the glass in practice if anything i think it's like low energy so where it really stood out to me was saturday morning at bell center comparing the two morning skates now the The Leafs was an optional, so not every single guy was on the ice, but there was a joy about the Canadians, even though at that point they were on a five-game skid and hadn't been playing

very well. But they're celebrating with each other over the silly practice goals. They're hooting and hollering. They're doing the beaver tail slaps with their sticks over every little thing. There was an energy about them. The Leafs, it's just felt like going through the motions, okay, the assistant coach wants us to do this drill we'll do it it's just been quiet yeah it's not been angry it's been quiet god that's worse you're watching and listening to luke fox from sportsnet dot caa

will they or won't they play matthews nyes and waa now we just had an earlier discussion on everything points to the direction that they're they're good they're ready they look good good shooting, I don't know. And then you guys are told today that we'll see tomorrow. So what could happen in 24 hours where they don't know to when they know? That's a great question. And I guess it's waking up and how does it feel? Like if it's a muscle thing, which is what we suspect it is with Nyes and Matthews in particular,

like how did you sleep? How are you feeling? and you feel like you can take some contact. My guess is no. Like, if you're ready to go, you're not, you don't usually practice in an extra sweater. So all three of those guys were wearing gray, which is the sign of you're not in the lineup.

And Brouba is saying, maybe. And it's been a lot of maybes lately. I feel like if you're close, then play. If not, just come out and say, you know what, we have a day off after that game. We're not going to rush these guys back. We don't want to risk further energy. Let's wait till the weekend.

But it is curious how we keep being told that they're close. We see signs that they're close, but it's not a full green light yet. Yeah. I'm seeing some things from the team that they're looking forward to the road trip to team dinners and poker on the plane and connecting and all that sort of stuff. You know, you look around, you talk about Montreal Canadians in the way that they sort of seem to have this sort of celebratory nature. I've seen some clips at the Washington Capitol's dressing room.

They're not set in the world on fire, but they're having fun. Is that like an element here that the Leafs maybe can help them a little bit, a little bit of being home too much at the start of the year isn't always a great thing when you've got a lot of new players? Yeah, you're looking for anything at this point, Justin. But I do think the Leafs have had a really wonky schedule. It's been really home-heavy, all their road trips. And I've been on almost all of them.

So it's a lot of one and done. It's like you fly into Chicago. you fly back. You fly into Boston, you fly back. You don't get that prolonged, like, hey, guys, the older guys are away from their kids and their family, the younger guys. Some of them may not know their teammates all that well. It's like there's lots of chances for hanging out at the hotel together on the plane, having dinners. And guys will tell you, like, that helps. And maybe it would have helped the least if they had one of these longer, like week long, week plus long road trips earlier in the season

because they didn't make enough hay I think at home and their road record right now is worst in the league so you're looking for something to change the vibe change the mood so of course you're going to hang your hat on hey we're going to get out there and bond

us against the world get away from the noise you know they flick on local radio in Columbus or Washington they're not going to catch your show right Luke when when No, no kidding. When Joseph Wall took six weeks off,

I don't think it was the thought that when he was going to return, he was going to play every game, but it sure feels like that now. Where are we on Stolars? And how serious is this? That's a million-dollar question, Nick. And myself and others have been asking that point-blank. It's really curious because the night he got hurt,

we were led to believe he might be available the very next game and now he hasn't even been on the ice and Brubay has said that there hasn't been a setback that this is just something that maybe he thought was more minor than actually was and now we're told he's a ways away. I guess the good news is the timing of Joseph Wall coming back has coincided with Stolar's departure

so you're not leaning on a hill to be active. him off tandem right now and Joseph Wolves played very good. I love the fact that Joseph Wolfe was angry with Brubay for pulling him in Montreal. He wanted to stay in the net. He didn't want to give up. I think Brubay respected that. But

we're going to see a little bit of Hill to be here. There's a back-to-back on this trip. And they're being very cautious with overworking wool. They've admitted that they overworked Stollers at the beginning of the season. I think they view these guys as tandem goalies. Neither has proven

ever in their career that they're a 50 start guy so wool's going to need to catch a breath I think that was part of the reason for the poll part of the reason why we're probably going to see a little bit of hill to be as the schedule ramps up but I'm with you I'm very curious to see when Stollers comes back he hasn't even been traveling with the team yet Nick so is he going to be on this trip

we'll have our eyes open what are your thoughts on where Columbus is at I feel like they've played Columbus a hundred times this year are we going to expect anything different out of that group this trip? Well, we're going to expect them to be as battered or more battered than the Leafs. Werensky's banged up, Marchenko's banged up, Monaghan's banged up, Olivier's going to see a doctor today.

So the good news for the Leafs is they're getting a wounded opponent. They should be motivated. You don't want to lose three games to the Columbus Blue Jackets before Christmas time. Like let's, you know, prove some people wrong here. you know no one wants to hear the cannon go off like show up for this one yeah it it always ends up feeling like they lose six five in Columbus for some reason yeah it's usually a wild night there it is yeah they've had some funny games there um anything else for our luke fox uh i guess just is jake mccabe's face intact uh yeah like he took god that guy gets hitting the bee yeah that was uh everybody worrying

about the jaw yeah it's it's scary right, especially on the heels of what we saw what happened with Charlie McAvoy. It's like you don't know how bad these things are and McCabe was kind of funny talking to reporters after practice saying, I wasn't that scared you know, I played defense.

The puck rides up off my stick and into my face many times before and he was talking about how his daughter was just hoping that his face wouldn't look all messed up by the time he got back home from the road trip. That guy's a warrior man. So when he doesn't come back from a game,

you start to wonder and already won half of the shutdown pair and Chris Tanniv, we have no clue when or if this guy's coming back. So it's like another blow to the defense would just be crushing. So great news that he's good to go. Okay, one more before we let you go. Okay, we've heard for Craig Barrowby, glass half full. Where are you with some of your colleagues? We know how it works at practice.

You guys all sit around. You all talk. You drink, stale coffee, waiting. We get a hot stove going for sure. You get the hot stove going. Where is the general media, your peers, on what direction that the Leafs go from here? Yeah, half empty. Half empty.

Wow. But hey, prove the world wrong, right? There is tons of runway. And there's a soft conference, soft division. So there is runway here to prove the doubters wrong. It just feels like one of those seasons with the. injuries with the defense with only one good goalie being available at a time it feels like a cursed season temporary lightning missed the playoffs entirely between a couple trips to the conference

finals before they win the cup the the Vegas golden nights missed the playoffs entirely before they went and won the Stanley Cup after going to the final like teams have these bad seasons all those guys were in their mid 20s right yeah a little older little older group here Hey, Luke, great stuff as always, man. Thanks for joining us. Okay, have a good one, guys. Thanks, Luke, appreciate it. Horset.ca.

That's the part that kind of worries you, too, right? Where is this? Where are they on the age scale? Well, where are they? I mean, their most important forwards are not old. Well, DeVars is old. Tavares is old. Tanaev, of course.

That's your shutdown guy. And really, arguably, your most important. defenseman where is he next year let alone this year next year macape is on the other side of 30 right oh yeah so we're going to go into our national hour uh Rick Dolly wall is going to join us from Vancouver uh Rutherford's on the record man got to get younger right Leap's got to get younger well it's only one way to do that yeah

But not yet, just yet. Okay, okay. Not just yet. Okay, okay. Not just yet. Okay. So, anyways. Yeah.

No argument for me on that point. Just hang on, just a little longer. We do have some bruby on some of the other guys on that decor, OEL, on McCabe, on Benoit. I think the most relevant one would be Benoit. Benoit. Yeah. I don't know. What number of clip is that?

Yeah, no, there are, right now we use them as a shutdown pair for a lot of the game. and one, Benny's got to be physical, and he's got to be aggressive. That's where he disrupts the other team, right? It's just being a little bit more on his toes for me and just being strong and hard with the buck. You know, he doesn't have to make great plays. He's got to get, he's got to make the easy play

and make the right play. That's what I see. Where is the Benoit that Kevin BX? said somebody from Columbus last season. It was Utah. Okay, thank you, Utah. Michael Kesseling, I think it was. Where is that?

He's not been close to the same guy. No, last year, Benoit led the team in hits. He was, he averaged nine and a half per game this year. Nine and a half hits per game? Sorry, per 60. Oh, that's like three and whatever. But he averages two hits less per 60 this year, seven and a half. So he is less physical statistically.

And I think we see that. right it's not as he's not as imposing I think it just comes with getting comfortable just you got like OEL doesn't rub off on a few guys like even in Montreal like God bless him he's trying he's trying to piss

people off he's trying to draw penalty he did draw a penalty I know but he's the efforts there to do it yeah right is that not the most surprising thing like there it felt like when they signed OEL it was going to be like oh no he was like that in Florida

They just couldn't afford him. Yeah, okay. No, no, he won like that in Florida. Right. It's just such a good contract, you know, seeing him now like this. He, but you don't need him playing 21 minutes per night like he is. I would say that his game has aged much differently than I thought it would. Right.

Like after watching him in Phoenix. First of all, in Phoenix, he was paid amongst the top guys. He was offensive pedigree guy. Quinn Hughes to Phoenix, Arizona, or whatever you call them now. You call him Utah now, but... That's what he was back then. He was their number one offensive defenseman.

And so he learned or just threw into an element of grit. And, you know, I felt like I did as a person where eventually you just kind of go like, you know, you want some respect. You know, and take your... It was a top goal scorer. I'm like, I want to play... I want a hockey card.

Right. But I think I think a lot of that has to do with playing at Florida. What do you mean, no, playing around those guys and seeing that? Yeah, because they... No, no, no, no. That's all internal, but that's just a conscientious decision to go down that road. I don't need to watch someone else to do it and then I do it too. You got to...

You don't think playing in Florida had an influence on his turning into what he's turned into. But if that's the only way it comes out of me, it ain't coming out of you at all. That's fair. That's fair. I just, yeah. I don't remember him ever being like that until he puts... in Florida so and he's the like honestly can you name a second guy that can well they just authentically is like you know got some f you to him Scott Lawton has some sometimes yeah

god I would love for Steve Lawrence to have some sometimes he's way too nice yeah very nice guy McCabe McCabe yeah cable he got just guys sleeping end of list okay just whatever it's like let's see something in the first 10 minutes right yeah well that Columbus has no Matthew Olivier, and you're not seeing them again all year. Boy. I believe you called that a credit card. Go have your fun out there. They're going to get such a nice first round pick for all of Recman-Larsen.

It's going to be awesome. Yeah. Well, I mean, you... How's that going to make you feel better? Well, it might. Might. So would you... You know, we're going to get into Vancouver here, basically,

putting up the for-sale sign and doing whatever they can to get younger. Yep. which includes in all probability Quinn Hughes out the door sooner maybe even than later you want to send that message to Toronto Maple Leaf fans

yeah you do eh you're a little early on it I'm not saying it's the wrong call I'm just saying and Justin you agree it's way too early it is too early maybe in Vancouver you can get away with it but not here

not mid-November. Sometimes the best strikes or the preemptive strikes, boys. Okay. Painful. Thanks to Luke Fox. And when we return, we go national. My trade board is out

and live on sportsnet.com. We've got some Vancouver stuff. So stick around. Rick Dollywall is up next. Thank you.