Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Gudas Injures Matthews, Leafs Miss the Moment

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Gord Stellick and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' win over the Anaheim Ducks to snap their losing streak. They discuss Radko Gudas' dirty hit that injured Auston Matthews, the lack of immediate response, and Easton Cowan taking initiative in the third period. Later, they check in on Matthews' status for the rest of the season, debate what an appropriate suspension length for Gudas would be, and discuss whether injuries are the prime reason for Matthews' decline. Finally, they take your calls on the Leafs Line! The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, now we get her going. The Real Kippenborn Show, season five, leaf hour edition. Wherever you're watching and listening on our many platforms, Sportsnet 360, 590, the fan in Toronto, streaming on Sportsnet Plus. Also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. We're glad you're aboard. In for today's show, Nickyprio, Sammy McKee. in for Jake the Snake Shultz is James Wilson.

Okay. Wilson. Wilson. And in for Derek Brandeo is Alex Gomez Adams. And in for Justin Bourne born. The wonderful, the talented. Put your hands together for the lovely Gord Stelich. Thank you, Savvy.

Where is everybody today? What's going on? It's Friday, but I know. People bail. I know. I looked down my window this morning when I was watching the players in beautiful Florida. I thought I would call him in sick with the snowstorm. No.

No. Yeah, I did. We've got way more to talk about. Oh, God. We have a leaf hour. Tons. Like we have a leaf hour. We're not.

Absolutely. Oh, my God. I think that was on purpose. You've never done a walk of shame on a leaf jersey before. for Sammy. What does that mean? It's usually the national hour when you forget to change the Leaf jersey

to something else, but never, first time ever, that he's not had a Leaf jersey. Maybe he should take a day off too. What does that mean, Sammy? What do you try to tell the Leaf Edition viewers and listeners?

It means that we got the players on in here and I was watching golf until the very last month. No, no, I think it might have something to do with last night. Well, they got a win. They got a win. They got a win. What could be wrong? Perfect.

Big game. But like, it really goes against our standings now, right? The Kipper, what did you call it? The tank? Kippur's Tank Watch is what I called it. Yes. Now, okay. Gord, we got into this a little yesterday.

The Tank Watch? Yes. Okay, good. I want to talk about the Tank Watch. Okay. I really hope you support me here. And Mike Gentilly, who is a wonderful producer, fan hockey show, been working for a long time.

He thought it should be called Kipper Think Tank, which is a very good idea. So, Gord, I'm not a fan of, like, trying to get the top five pick. Well, because you'd be a player that if the team is tanking, then you're tanking and you got no job next year, okay? Right? Because you're the player's tanking and everyone's excited and I would hope no players are tanking. By the way, you could never be in a think tank. You move around too much, Kippa. That's, you know, so first of all, it's amazing.

Talking to Andy Strickland and St. Louis today, they've won five out of six, but he goes, the fans are pissed because they want a better draft pick. So the blues are actually putting a late thing on, but now they're saying they want a lower draft pick. Okay, but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a little bit of a window for actually the St. Louis Blues to make the playoffs? That's what I'm saying. So, and the fans are pissed?

Some are. Like if they play Evanston tonight. Just the dumb ones. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, sorry. Is Sammy one of them? Yeah.

Okay. Well, I'm not going to use that word because Sammy carried our show, Least Nation for a long time, so I'm going to leave it alone. You carried it into the dish. First of all, specifically, I'm talking about the blues fans who will not open up a window to make the playoffs, but they want them to tank. No, I know. I know. So anyway, I'm just saying how ridiculous it gets, okay, that all of a sudden they're going, man, we suck. Well, that's really suck now.

Okay? Like it becomes a goal. Now, first of all, I got to tell you, Sam, any team that even borderline tanks bites them in the ass. They get no karma. They get no karma. They get no luck. They get no luck.

And deserve no luck. And I know it's gotten strange now that the Leafs, if they finish in the top in the worst five. Here I'm talking the top five. And they get the pick. But again, it's like your credit card. Your parents covered the minimum for this month. And you've got to pay it off later.

And it's unprotected draft lottery-wise. So no, I think you've got to finish on a positive note where the chips will fall, the chips will fall. And Kippy, you were, you were, I don't know if you're in the NHL yet. The all-time greatest tank were the Pittsburgh Penguins, New Jersey Devils, in 1984 to get Mario Lemieux first overall. They could not go out of the way to try to tank more. And there was a great half-hour special about it, how bad they tried to be.

And one of the ones was they were talking about in Pittsburgh, they called up a bunch of American hockey, the guys from bowl. Baltimore. And that's when they said, on the power play, they put them all out there. One of them was Vince Trombly, the goaltender. And I go, he was our goaltender for two years in Toronto. And now you're talking about the epitome of tanking as you're throwing this guy in for a couple of games to make sure you lose, which he did successfully. And no wonder we struggled in Toronto in the early 1980s. Nice kid, nice young man. But he was our starting goaltender. I'm with you, Kippe, no tank. So outside of one, specific incident last night.

The boys fought hard, right? Especially in the back half. Well, more in the back half. Yeah. Well, actually, the whole back half. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

I mean, you get outshot again, I think. I don't know. It's just, it's just like an automatic when teams play against the Leafs, you're going to outchewed us like 18 to 6 and we're going to be down a goal or two. But, I mean, outside of that, they didn't completely lie down like dogs for the whole game last night. I guess something should be said about that,

but nobody's going to remember the score of last night's game or how hard they fought last night in the third period compared to Austin Matthews and the Goudis situation. Yeah. So I like to bring slice-to-life analogies. So one would be, and then I'll apply to hockey, but the three of us here and one person says something

offline, unacceptable to a person here. And just like the hit, it catches by surprise. It's a shock, right? So all of a sudden, you could say, geez, I wasn't ready for it

or I couldn't see that now. So if two days later, I say to Sammy, sorry about that, I should have told Kipper he was out of line. That means nothing. Yeah.

That means nothing. I needed to step in then, but I could, could say, you know, I don't like getting involved. I didn't quite hear. Well, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. The moment is lost.

And last night, again, and Kippie, you played. So my understanding is, like the New York Islanders do, if you touch Matthew Schaefer, there are four guys there within one second. It's a 911 call, okay? And the whole thing about you're going to get the crap beat out of you, and you know that's better than anybody about that, no, actually, no one's going to, if all four show up, if all four show up, nobody's going to get a crap beat out of you. of them. But you're sending a message that Radco Gudis gets four guys on him. And if someone else

sticks his nose and you want to get a one off that's a favorable fight, go for it. Whatever. I just mean, that's just what's understood. When it happens, I didn't have a good view, didn't have whatever, whatever, your captain's down like, or anyone down like that. And I, don't get me wrong. I never fought in the NHL and all that. I like fights. Okay. But, like, it's not even a code. It's reactive. Am I right or wrong? Yeah, I think that's what is the most concerning part, is the reactive part of it, where 90% of teams in the NHL, 100% I guess outside of the Leafs, the natural reaction to seeing your captain laying on the ice,

regardless of what happened, if you saw it or not, if you were around it or not, is to see Radco Gudis and to see, like, you shouldn't be thinking about the benefit of the doubt when those two things are involved. That's the part of it to me. it's always been an issue with this core. So Kipper, what are your thoughts? Right there with both of you, that you look at the pattern over the last few years.

So nothing really should surprise us last night, especially with these guys. And even though Brad Tree Living came in and said, we've got to clean that up. And a couple of years ago, it was really brought to attention with Marchand and Liligrin. that's the one where. It was like a team meeting, right? Brad Tree Living went in the next day, talked to the guys,

that's got to end. That's what he told him. Yeah. It's got to end. And last night it didn't end, right? It just carried on. So not overly shocked. It's just,

I think it just really is symbolic. Reenforces. Yeah. of the ongoing troubles of why this team couldn't come together when it mattered most. To your point, Sammy, they can't identify the moment. Like these moments in games, there's times for subconscious and there's time that you get time to kind of absorb something. And they haven't got a clue which is which.

They can't identify moments, big moments that come, around not very often sometimes. And I'm speaking of a game six or game seven moments that have nothing to do with going into a pile. But their biggest issue over the years, especially this leadership group, is missing those moments. And last night was a prime example.

Like, we all love Morgan, right? I mean, he gets the benefit of the doubt because he's one of the most popular guys over the course of 10, 12 years. He's a class act. But like... And he's a leader. No, but last night he was not a leader.

No, and he acknowledged that. But general, as far as their leadership group goes... He's one of the leaders. He's one of the senior leaders. For Morgan Riley to say, I missed the moment. Is just... Do you want to hear his clip? We do have it, or do you...

Let's go to his clip and then we'll react to it. Yeah, Alice, we could play that clip. Sorry, play the Morgan Riley clip. That's a dirty play. No. Morgan Riley. Clip one. Clip one more than that.

Yep, maybe not. Did we miss the moment? We might have missed the moment, boys. All right. Yeah, I didn't have a good view of it just because the puck was going another way, but it's on me for not responding earlier to Goudas being there. Obviously, it's a dirty hit.

I didn't understand how bad he got him in the moment, but I take full responsibility for not being the first one in there or being in there quicker to respond. And that being said, I thought our group played well on the third and, you know, was able to respond. But ultimately, when your captain goes down like that on a dirty play, you know, you have to respond as a group. But I also take responsibility for not being the first one in there after the hit. They're embarrassed. Yeah.

And I don't know. How many times did he say responsibility, three times, you know? Yeah. But it's just, what are you watching? Where's your head? Where's your mind? And where's your focus? Like, how do you miss that moment?

To me, it's a Kipper. You know, Morgan Riley, in the past, in some of these bigger games, I would say of all the guys, he's been willing, a willing participant in some of this stuff. Like you think about what happened with Ridley Greg, where he... That was a moment. He sees the moment.

And we all acknowledged that that was a good moment for him. And the team won every game he was suspended in part because he seized the moment. And you think about all these other things where he's been in scrums. He's like he's not afraid to be in that situation.

It's just that, him not jumping in there and him saying that he didn't really know how serious it was. But it is reflective of the ongoing issues that they've had. They're not locked in. They're just not locked in. They're not into the games.

They're just waiting for the finish of the season. They're not locked in and it just looks so bad because of that. No, that's not looking at the standings. That is, that's who they have been for a very long time. So you know where I got enlightened? I'm sorry. And you know what enlightened me now more so about talking very long time? First of all, they're trying to mitigate it after.

And that's the whole discussion how much they did. Morgan Riley, if anybody has a ton of credibility, for me. So at least I'll say after you know acknowledging it fine but again you're mitigating something that should have happened but Sammy I go back to it and I mitigated it in that what the hell happened this season

right? Then you go you look back Joe Wall actually played okay against Florida and you had the you thought you had the series once you're sort of thinking of it and you go they ran your goaltender out of the playoffs more fans were upset about that they go they ran the goaltender out

and then Stolars when he kind of had something to say early in the regular season. You remember? He was pissed off and he kind of said, well, you think about it. He's going back to, yeah. But all of a sudden, you're going, yeah, he's going, you know, we lost a series.

They ran me out, your number one goalie, and they did nothing. And all of a sudden, you wonder why the season never got off on the right, got on the right track. And then you see a repeat of things, because these moments don't happen very often, and the reaction has to be instantaneous. And it wasn't against Sam Bennett in the playoffs.

And it wasn't against Scootus now. Now, anyway, about how they develop, how they learn from it. Is it rock bottom? You start moving up. All that stuff for another day to discuss and is irrelevant to the point. They've got a head coach who's had over 3,000 penalty minutes, one of the top in history. I can't believe for one second.

He hasn't just been trying to pound this message in on sticking together and standing up for one another. So what's been lost here? They don't listen to him. They don't, they ignore him. He's not driving the point enough. Like, where is the lost in translation here? I just, I mean, you watch the third period.

He clearly went into the dressing room and threw some shame towards them in terms of how they played. We're like a stone throw away from April. It's, oh, I know. It's like what you're right. That's not what I'm getting at. That looked last night. is what we've seen over the years. And even the response to the third period,

tell me it's like November. And maybe they could build off of that. But like it's April for God's sakes. It's over. And your captain goes down and still no response. You've learned nothing about being a team. Nothing over the years. I got to say, I'm not surprised that Willie

didn't do anything. I'm not surprised that Carlo didn't do anything. I'm not surprised at Kyle didn't do anything. I'm surprised that Riley didn't do anything. That's the one guy in the ice that surprised me that he didn't do something. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't care if you're a 20 year old rookie like Easton or this ultra skilled guy like Willie. Yeah. When you see your captain go down, you're a gazillion points away from making the playoffs. It's been the worst season of your life. No, you need to show some emotion there. You don't get a freebie. You don't get to say, I'm Willie, that's not my job. Totally agree.

You don't get to say I'm 20 years old and I'm too young. Nobody gets free passes. There are four guys on the ice. With the captain going down, nobody gets a free pass. I don't care. If Easton Cowan went there and stuck Goudis in the face and got suspended the rest of the season, they'd have a statue for him tomorrow. Okay?

That would have been the best suspension. Easton Cowan could ever have. Even Willie, we don't care if you play the next 15 games. What we cared about is you did nothing when your captain is lying on the ice. And all four of them, Sammy, I think I agree with the Kipper, are equal. Because again, we're not talking about engaging Goudis in a fight.

And also, if you're thinking about it and you should be thinking, you're going, we are playing with a safety net. Because the season is lost. They're playing for something. We can do whatever we want. Who cares if we get an instigator penalty? Who cares whatever?

Like they're the ones that have to worry about guys getting suspended or whatever. They needed that game. So at least you got two points off them. It's a sign of bad leadership and it's a bad sign of the culture. But I just want to make it clear that I was disgusted by it. I'm just not. But I don't hold Riley more than the others in my opinion. They're all equal about the minimum response for all four, not just one of the four.

I guess I'm just, you know, at this point, it's so hard to watch. But when you've seen it for nine years, I mean, I just, you're used to it. Yeah. Okay. Which is pathetic. Yeah. Time to put an end to that and just. Well, that's why they always brought in a Matt Martin, Wayne Simmons, a Ryan Reeves.

But it's a team thing. And Nazan Cadre had it, but unfortunately he crossed the line. I do respect to those guys. They're like accessories. Oh, no, but it didn't solve it. I'm just saying they felt there was a void, but the void was a team concept. The culture and the vibe

has to come from your best players. Okay. And historically, most recently, it came from Gilmore and Wendell, Todd Gill. Like, those guys set the wheels in motion. The ones that are out there 15, 20 minutes,

also the guys that will stick up for one another or spear you or do whatever it takes. But if there's been this vibe or this situation where Sammy gets to say, well, he's not going to do it, Willie's not going to do it, Austin's not that guy, John Tavares is not that guy, and then obviously Mitch Marner wasn't that guy either. Like then who picks up the leadership of that? Whose voice matters to say, boys, not on my watch tonight. will that ever happen in our dressing room.

I know. I mean. And it's not Ryan Reeves or it wasn't Joey Kosher, Nick Capriosa, 1994. It was Messier, it was Gilmore, it was the stars. Wendell. Who have to set that tone. It's been something that me as a leaf fan, the city, the country, whoever's a leaf fan. It's something that's been one of the biggest talking points about,

this core for the entire time. It's the lack of feel for the moment, the lack of fight for each other, the lack of dog in them at times, I guess. Like, it's just, it's been a huge, huge issue. And when you see it last night, in a lost season, when everybody's turning on this team

and the building doesn't have nearly as many fans as it usually does, it just is a really tough pill to fall. Let's flip to a positive in that, just memory, and I'm not going back 40 years ago. You talked about some names. was it four times in five years, the Leafs eliminated what I think every season

was a better Ottawa Senators team. An Ottawa Senator's team that should have won a Stanley Cup. Why did they eliminate them? Goaltending and that toughness. And that toughness. That's what every playoff. The Ottawa Senator Fams went back said, what the hell happened?

We had a great regular season and the Leafs eliminated us again and it was just on those two things. And we've seen it, we realize now, well, not too late. We've realized it for a while that that's why the Leafs sit here now. and have not had that playoff success

because what the Leafs we did to Ottawa successfully has been done to the Leafs in the playoffs year after year after year. So, oh, go ahead. So Go ahead. So Goethe. We're talking about Goudis.

Public enemy number one in Canada. Just took out Sid Crosby like five minutes ago. Not the same, but yes. Took them out. Knee. Sid kind of on the, anyway, whatever. Whatever. cases. It was borderline.

So in my heyday, it was Brian Marchman, who was most known for knee-on-nees. We'd spend five minutes, ten minutes before the game going watch that guy.

That guy could end your career. Nobody takes their eyes off that guy. And that's the vibe that you have all night that this guy is dangerous and he can hurt one of us really bad. So as a team that is ultra focused on top of obviously everything else. Where was that last night for a guy like Goudis?

Where was it that even if I miss it, even if I'm Morgan Riley and I miss it? Doesn't matter. And I see Goudis beside my captain who's down and out, you are guilty until proven innocent. I am coming after you. I don't even have to see it. Okay? I don't. And if I'm wrong, if I'm wrong, so be it. But you are guilty in my eyes. You and I both know he saw it. Like everybody, he can say he didn't see it. Willie can say he didn't see it. They're all just going out in the game saying we didn't see it. We weren't quite sure the severity of it. We all know they saw it. That's the tough part. No, I don't. Okay. Whether they saw it or not.

and I'll cut slack about whatever because it's so fast. You're looking at a lot of different things. But the point is, number one, when a player's down like that, the reaction's instinctive and you quickly, you find out whatever. And number two is because it's Goudis, there's no question. Like, I mean, like you said, it's like on the FBI's most wanted list. There's other players that you can say, okay, geez, he seems like a nice, I don't mind. But our captain's down, so I got to go, you know, on friendly whoever,

the four of us have to be in his face because that's what the price of him. Again, look what the islanders have done. Look what the Buffalo Sabres did against Tampa Bay. They're in the penalty box, and they're giddy because they've learned that they stick up for each other. They can't fit in the penalty box anymore because they made them into seats. You know, they sell them, but now they've got four sabers there, and they're going, Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay tried to challenge us physically, and we stood up to it. And it's another growing thing for the Buffalo Sabres, just last Sunday or whenever it was.

What clip do you want to roll off? It's up to you. But I, do you want to go with the, with Brubay or do you want to? Yeah, let's hear from Chief a little bit. How about the clip, clip two? The lack of response. Is there any good explanation on your part for no one responding to your lack physically? Yeah, no.

I mean, obviously we should have had four guys in there doing some about it. But it didn't happen then, but I thought they responded in the third. It was, you know, a good response there. but, you know, we all would like everybody to get in there right away. What did you make the third? When we look back on this night, no one's going to remember the third. No one's going to remember the score. No one's going to remember anything except the captain being down

and no one doing anything about it. That in five or ten years will feel like yesterday. So I don't care about the third. Can I say what was frustrating about this? third is that there's been a lot of talk about this team not having a ton of talent and the way they've looked over this stretch since the Olympic break. The third period just showed me what playing hard and playing with heart and playing together and all this stuff looks like when you do it.

That's the best they looked all year long. Physicality, togetherness, sticking up for each other. It's like, yeah, you can play like that all year long. Like you're going to have off nights. You're not going to have, but like, for the most part, I was just kind of shocked to see it because I don't know if they've played that hard all year long. Surprising. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, again, it takes that. So what does it matter? You didn't make the, so it's kind of like, you know, he said the best response in the third. So, okay, I know a real 911 call is a lot more serious. But it's kind of like the 911 call is your immediate reaction, okay, which they didn't do. So it's like the 911 call going to the wrong address. What does it matter they went half an hour later, you know, whatever? Oh, okay, sorry, had the wrong one.

Half hour later, didn't matter. Whatever. Too late. Too late. So I will want, I think, remember, because he's the only young, bright spot on the team right now is Easton Cowan understanding the best ovation he got because he definitely saw.

He knew it. Oh, yeah. He saw being young, probably nobody else reacting, right? He's waiting for a lead, nobody else reacting, so it didn't. Then he goes, gets 10, 5, and 2, and gets a standing ovation, leaving the ice, and the reinforcement that that stuff, even the fans are saying. And he knows it.

They all know what the players. They know it. How important that stuff is and why the hell didn't they do it? So I think that's another one, Kipper, I would remember. But yeah, the other stuff is a little bit white noise, okay? Let's hear from Craig Barrowie on Cowan, clip four. Yeah, I know. It was great.

I mean, it was, you know, a lot of what we talked about. And I thought that everybody went out and did what we asked in the third period, including, you know, Cowboy getting involved. and, you know, going after one of their best players. Doesn't sound very happy in any of these clips. Look where they are today. I know. I mean, I would be lying if I said I didn't like it.

I liked it. I thought that that was a huge hit. I thought the temperature of the game. I thought he had. Cowan? Yeah. Cowan's going to be a great player. I don't know.

Great in terms of, is he going to be a star? Is he going to be a 90-point guy? I don't know. but he's he can be a big part of the future, but I don't know if we're talking about like when that future arrives again, like it did the last few years as a contending team. I don't know when that happens. So, okay, let me give a silver lining again,

because I've said to you many times here, this whole cosmetic thing, and I'm not saying Bradshaw living was doing cosmetically, but to get to restock the cupboards. You got, there's no restocking. It's like your family is starving. So now you make them just merely hungry, okay, because you put a few little things in the fridge.

There's still not enough to go around. You know, and that's really as far as their prospects go and draft picks. So to me, you know, yesterday we had a game between the two presidents' trophy winners the last two years, the New York Rangers, Winnipeg Jets, and they're out of the playoffs. You know, that's so quickly it's gone. And teams like that and Toronto have to identify, can they do the Boston Brew and bounce back? Like how much is still there? You know, and sometimes in life, hitting rock bottom is the start of a positive step up here, you know, and last night's rock bottom, as far as the team concept went and whatever, but what's wrong with the team this year?

So is that something they play office? Do Matthews and Neander come back big? Does the goaltending come back strong, you know, Tative, oh, yeah, whatever. There's, you can't just say, you're not going to get Morgan Royal, Nassam Caddy, Mitch Martyr, William Nealander, Austin Matthews, you're not getting those first round picks like he's stock. last time. So you got to figure out what's there that's good because there is stuff that's good. And then whether there's a Morgan geeky type, I mean, that's

big, but whatever else out there. Okay, because you got to fix it that way. You're not sitting back doing a rebuild. That's not in the agenda. That's not in the cards. That's debatable. What do you mean? What do you mean? What's debate? There's no, with what draft picks? With what draft

picks? Well, the ones you get for all the guys you trade away. Whoa, whoa. Whoa. 28, 29. 30. Kippey. Those draft picks. I may not be around that, okay? Whatever.

I'm feeling good, though. A lot of people. I hope so, too. That's how long it may take. Longer than that, Kippey. What draft picks? You got one pick in the, well, I guess you've added some more, but one pick in the first four rounds the next couple of years.

But no, no, no. If you're going through the draft, then it'll be 14 years like Buffalo. Okay? How long is, now Detroit's in trouble again? Five. Seven. Five, seven. Oh, seven.

You've got Austin Matthews, William Nealander in the lineup, okay? So you know, it's not PA parental time getting 20 goals, okay, that he's the guy last time he didn't make the playoffs. There's nobody else in the band. John Tavares still, okay, different kind of rules, but a service guy, whatever may be. This team has got to show more of the first place team last year than it was this year. All right.

Okay. Shout out for your art, art, Pizzata. Sure. Right? Yeah. Sure. Good. energy last night.

The guy came in with a smile from here to here, 50 family members or friends and his parents in the stands. Like, that's great. So why wasn't he up? Again, I'm not piling on. Yeah. Well, why did Montreal give up on him? Why did, why was he buried in the minors?

Well, okay, but also that kind of role he did last night when you don't have it on the team. Okay? You know, by the way, love your parents. I haven't seen them for a while. saw him at Loblaws a few years ago. So they would not show them when you were fighting like they did now, but you see his mom watching the fight, which I love, because moms are the best. Dads wouldn't care.

Dads would just whatever. They want to grab the dad of the other, whatever. Mums are special. And she's like, you know, wincing at all. So I don't know. How was- Oh, no, same thing. Same thing.

So your dad was cool with it. I don't know if they were ever cool with it. Your mom would just kind of like hope everyone's okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah, those are tough moments. apparent moments for sure. I thought the temperature of the game,

he was going to get a little bit more ice time, but I guess with all the penalty killing and the power plays, he didn't get a, what do you play, five minutes last night? But it was nice to see somebody flying on the forecheck and deliver a huge hit and separate the guy from the puck. You can't win in there on Lecombe, I think it was that he hit. So, yeah, good for him.

Maybe you play a few more games here. Okay. Take a quick break. Sure. All right. When we come back. Well, actually, hold on. What's up? Have you heard anything about Austin? Yeah. Well, we can do that.

that after the break. All right, we'll give you the latest update on Austin Matthews and Leafline caller, Sammy. You got some beauties? People are pissed. I got to tell you people are pissed, bud. People are pissed. So somebody else is going to be accused of being negative, not me. The whole, yeah, you're the only one to Leaf Nation negative right now. Okay, all of that when we return to Real Kipper and Born and Stellic. into Toronto sports and the NFL. The JD Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kippur and Born show. Nickyose Sammy McKee and Gord Stelik in for Justin Bourne. Austin Matthews doing an MRI today. So I have not heard any result. I think my understanding was last night. that the feeling was that it wasn't really serious, but probably in the vicinity of a Sydney Crosby situation,

where you're looking at maybe three or four weeks. And I don't know what that leaves for the rest of the season, but my guess is that we've seen the last of Austin this season. Yeah. So I wondered with Raggedugudas having a phone hearing, and I know most, I think a lot of Lee fans are saying throw the book at him, it doesn't really matter. What is the book?

Well, I was going to say, like, I don't know, 21 games. I'm just saying that's the book. That's not happening. I know 100%. I use that number because wasn't that what Dale Hunter got? Gary Bettman made his mark when he threw the book at Dale Hunter. So my point is it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter for the Leafs.

It's not going to help Austin Matthews and you're kind of splitting hairs about it. But I wondered, do they check in initial statement about the health of the player? Because worst case scenario, he could be out nine months. if you're talking about torn ACL, torn whatever, you know, like something horrible. So I don't know if that's a positive. I'm trying to look, you know, interpret. I'm not trying to play doctor. I'm just saying, I wonder if they, like I said, is that a positive?

They said no. Generally, though, it does not factor in. How hard you're hurt? No, it factors in. But like, you're talking about factoring it in where he gets an additional 10 or 15 games. Is that where you're talking? I got to say Lee fans are upset that it's a

phone hearing and I would agree that this guy has got a rap sheet he's not like this is this has what was his last suspension 2019 well I mean he's got I think he's been suspended for 21 games combined in his career like four separate suspensions like

I think this is eligible to be above five boys it's a cheap shot of one of the stars of the league where he kicks out his knee and injures a guy I think Lee fans have a beat for it not being more than five. I really do. It doesn't matter to the least like you said at all. Would six make you happy?

I think 10 would make me happy. It's not 10. It's not 10. No, and again, for me, it's not the number. Over five, for sure. But by the way, I got to think in, because I remember, to your point, it's kind of, I think Willie Mitchell was one of those guys

that he was never the same and he was pissed off that, you know, he says, you know, the players association is defending the other guy, and I'm going to lose money because, He never was the same player after a particularly dirty hit. But Kippie, now, so you're saying it does not, like, it's kind of like if you shoot somebody and they die, it's murder. If they don't, then it's a lesser offense. It's less about someone dying and more about the act for me. Okay.

Okay, no, but in making the decision, I thought a mitigating term is how, because who was it always said that they never realized how bad, um, how bad who was it that was hurt the paul korea you know just like after the fact in in making a decision i i believe it does factor in but not not the swing that some people are expecting here so let me just ask you something okay yeah okay it's it's gudas and that's why the temperature's so high but if that exact same play happened to somebody that's never been suspended never uh has need on need anybody but it didn't give what it what is that's the same play happened What is it? What is it? What is the suspension? Three or four games, probably two or three.

Okay. All right. Yeah. So now. But that's not the conversation we're at. Hold on for a second. Hold on for a second. If it is two or three or three or four, Sam. Yeah. Then what is the added on that it's Goudis for you?

That he's a, has a huge reputation as a dirty player in the league that's been doing this his whole career. Is that 10 games for you extra? It's over five. For sure. It's over five. For the record, I'd have it at four or five, too. I would have it at four or five games. I said 10, 10 strong.

Six or seven for me. But you've got to also protect the act on the next guy that does it. And you can't have a swing of 15 for Goudis and then two for the exact same act. But that's the whole point. But it's not even looked at... The more you do bad stuff, the worst your suspensions get. This is what we've been doing the whole time. He hasn't been suspended for five or six years.

I mean, so that just clears his rap sheet? No, but it helps. It kind of does. It does help, Sam. It's suspended for over 21 games. Four separate times you've been suspended, including one for 10, including one for six. How is that not make him more?

But there is a criteria that's part of the collective bargaining agreement. So there is, whatever may be, just to the point. So, yeah, you get added on because you're a repeat offender. But when time goes, it's kind of like getting your record, you know, cleansed. But here's a question I want to ask you, Kippie, about okay, Austin Matthews' last couple of seasons. How much is it wear and tear? How much is it Barubi's system?

How much is it Austin getting older? Because last year, we never got any clarity about his injury. Normally at the end of the season, every player, it comes through up. Okay, here's what happened. Some degree. So he went somewhere for some kind of treatment. We think he's always hurt, right? Fair to say?

And in the time he doesn't look like a 69 goal score That's been a big part of the Conclusion is that he must not be healthy Well not expecting 69 But there's a big drop from 69 That's all so I just mean I don't know Like it's there's an element about mystery About his health in general

Like okay so Well and that's I'm sorry and I get the Leafs are a big part of this too But if that guy wanted to go to a scrum tomorrow and say, it's my back. He can do that. No one's stopping him from do that. But there's always been a sense of secrecy

and this, it's none of your business and I'll just keep it to myself. So, you know, in many ways, he still invites that conversation of, like, what is going on here? Yeah. I'm saying actually with empathy. I'm not just saying, like,

my perception is that he's not been 100% healthy for a couple of years because his play is different, right? But anybody can say that when they're not playing well. I'm just telling you my perception. You're right. But it's been out there and again the big. So anyway, I'm kind of getting it away from the topic right now.

But just how many games do you think he's going to get? I think he'll get four. Well, he can't get more than five, right? I think he can't. No, I don't know, phone thing. Phone, yeah. So four or five. I don't really care between those two.

Really? He doesn't matter. For Austin, it doesn't care. You know why it matters. What is it good for the Leafs? You know why it matters. I have no idea. Well, because Leaf fans are going to say that it's anti-leaf stuff again.

Well, it's not anti-leaf stuff. Leaf fans should still be focusing on the-Ratko Good has played for the Leafs. He'd be kicked out of the league for that act. There's no question. No. I mean, he would get 40 games if he was just the Leafs. You're saying that or certain fans are saying that? The whole fan base is saying.

No, the whole fan base is saying. No, the whole fan base is not. and maybe McDavid, he's gotten Matthews and Crosby. I mean, if he would have done it to 97% of the league, we wouldn't even be talking about it today. It's not true. Nobody would care. Not to this degree, please.

So then they should take that and give him more if everybody's talking about it. So if one of the Leafs did it to an Anaheim player last night, Radca Gutis would have been one of the four players on the ice that would have responded, I would think. Okay, and that's the bigger issue than what does it matter. It's not going to change what happened. The immediate response, whether he gets five games or 12 games. Let me just say this.

Jason Spetsa, who never did one dirty thing in this whole career, did a way less, way less greasy knee and got suspended for six games. So if it's under that. I thought that was way over the top. No, I agree. There's always been certain examples. Wow. What are we getting at here?

I can't. No, not the Leaf conspiracy. I can't get caught in that web right now. Yeah. Oh, buddy, I'm, this is Charlotte's web. It's Sammy's web. All right. Let's go to Leaf Collars here, Sammy.

I feel bad for Lee's Collars, but I got to bring this up with you guys because it's been a big thing at least nation. We can get to Leaf's Collars next week, maybe. This Chris Pronger thing's getting hot. Where is it getting hot, Sam? Well, I mean, Steve Simmons wrote an article about that. I get that. And then.

Ken Campbell's been talking about it a little bit. I see him. They've been tweeting back and forth. He sent him out pictures of how beautiful the skyline is in Toronto. He's at the least game last night. Every reply to one of his tweets, are you here for your interview? Are you here for your interview? So what's he doing, Sam?

Is he trolling for the job? People want him to be the president. He wants the job? I don't know. Does he? Well, is that the conclusion when a guy goes to the rink and starts taking pictures? I'm just saying. There's a lot of smoke around here.

I'm just wondering. You're talking about the replies are asking him of that. Now, there's no question that Chris Pronger would like to be a person. president of an NHL organization. Okay. Yeah. He's not said that to me. Don't get me wrong.

But just to me, and there's a lot of people. Yeah, of course. And hey, Brendan Shanahan could end up in Nashville, whatever. I mean, there's people out there. There's fit. So first of all, the president's job is open. So that's a little bit different than the Doug Armstrong fumes that are out there. Yeah.

Whatever that may be. Although maybe that would be fumes as president too. So it's kind of fair game to throw it out because you're not going after Trilliving or you're not going after Barubi directly. when you say that. So I have no idea, is he connected, whatever? Is he promoting himself? I mean, in the old days, you kind of got promotion.

You tried to get it through the media. Sometimes it backfired because you'd get caught. You'd get exposed and you wouldn't get the job. So I found it interesting. Well, everyone's looking for something, Sammy, right now. So Chris Pronger tweets a lot. He's been very good on social media. The internet does that?

They just search for stuff. Apparently, yes. I'm not telling you what I know. I'm just telling you what I've heard. Can I just remind people that Keith Pelly came in and he eliminated those jobs. Yeah. And how is that gone this year? So do you think within one year Keith Pelley's going to go back and go fill that spot up

because he all of a sudden realized he was wrong? Maybe. That's how good businessmen work. I'm sorry, but I don't see it. Okay. I could be wrong. I don't know. I have no idea.

I'm just putting it out there. I mean, you've been an executive. You think within 12 months, they're going to go back and hire that position that they got rid of? To answer your question, I don't. I think there's going to be the kind of scrutiny on Trilliving and Per Ruby that we didn't expect the start of the year because you've got to take a look at everything. And I also think there's a corporate.

thing about getting rid of presidents, right? Right now, I just think as far as the new ownership goes with the Toronto Maple Leaf. So, Sammy, I just think people view anything as hope, okay? Brendan Shanahan being here as president, I don't think would have made the difference people think it would. And I'm big on Chris Pronger, but I'm not saying he would be a miracle worker. I'm what's exciting. I mean, I don't know about, like, there's no miracle worker right now.

If you hire solid hockey men, good people, which men and women. I don't care what the title is. Just get hockey people around there. Get people that can understand culture. Get people to sit there and go up to the players and say Goudis is on the ice. Keep an eye on them. Watch this guy's back. If there's a situation like last night, this is the way I'd like you to handle it.

Arm them. They look disarmed last night. They look like they don't know how to react in those situations. Get some hockey people. in that room to help these guys. Agree. Well, and it's been, every exit's been a coddled exit in the playoffs historically.

And I mean about the verbal not taking, not being pissed off, not being accountable so much. It was more about some criticism at players and whatever be, not coming back and saying, we're not going to let this happen next year. And it never really played out like that. And then I go back to last year about the,

you know, Stolar's being taken out and on and on and on. But so that's where, that's where you're right. Sometimes all the bells and whistles, you just need the simple thing about, hey, the basics. Make sure the basics are covered and will grow from there. Like hockey is hockey. You made it to the NHL knowing the basics. They all know what to do. And last night, it seemed like none, it seemed like at least four of them either forgot about it or didn't.

What do you? I mean, I think the pronger idea is pretty interesting. That's all I'll say. We got time for a couple quick calls. One quick one? Two quick ones. Let's go to, I think it's Ryan and Windsor, maybe the latest one I put in there, the newest one.

Ryan and Windsor. Maybe not. Maybe I threw Alex too quick there. Well, this is it. This is literally the most disgusted I've ever been to be a lead fan. This is where we're running. And I'm old. I've been around for a while.

I've thought about putting the bag on the head and throwing the jersey on the ice many times. But I think this is rock bottom. after what happened last night and just seeing this team. Well, put it this way. I had a buddy of mine all excited last year when I signed that contract. We said, that's great. We're going to have this young power forward for all these years.

And I said, what are you talking about? The culture on this team is going to destroy this kid. It's going to take this big, strong, heavy power forward and turn them into a kitten, softer than Borny after a bender back in the day. And it's done exactly that. Look, look, we've had leaders just abandon this team. O'Reilly wanted out. Felino wanted out.

Ryan Reeves stopped fighting on this team in the last year. This culture kills everyone and trains the life out of you. And it's time to cut off the head of the snake. I don't care about the talent. I don't care about the generational school score anymore. Austin Matthews has to go and anyone that says different knows nothing about hockey.

I love you all. Greatest show in Canada. Thank you. Bye. So. I like that part. Let me tell you. Great show in Canada.

Yeah. We have... It's a great show. Seven or eight. This is really close to ours. NHL morning skates also good. Co-bets, co-greatest show. Yeah, yeah.

Well, not co-but maybe third or fourth. Seven or eight of those calls to. Okay. That's, that's... I just wanted to play one to get the tone. I don't think he probably set the tone. That's how people feel.

It's a tough spot for Lee fans right now. So how does getting rid of Austin Matthews solve it? Just different. Oh, different what? Yeah. How did it work out with Mitch Marnegan? Bad. Yeah, I know.

So, I mean, like, you know, just, like, it's one thing to be fed up and pissed off and whatever it may be. I want to keep reminding people that, like, these guys in this situation tend to make the decisions for the team, not the team and the fans making the decision. Yeah. And that's the narrative. I don't see Austin whining to stick around past two years.

Well, right, given a lot of things and given the timing of the and the gold medal and just a lot of circumstances, yeah. He's the one that, but any fan to say is, one that they'd be fed up. But you're a better team without Austin Matthews? No. Okay, just park that. Just park that. You know, and everyone's entitled to their opinion. don't get me wrong.

But it's not about being better, right? No, but it's so... He's going to be 29, Gord. Yeah. And I don't know how quickly this thing can turn around for Austin to say that I can still win a cup in my prime. Okay. So you're talking Quinn Hughes now, which you never thought we're talking. Okay.

And that very well could happen. Then all of a sudden, do you get assets comparable to what Vancouver gone? No, no, you don't. You know why? Why? Because Quinn did have no... move like Austin. Austin will pick his next team

and unfortunately that takes the demand away from the Leafs. All right. Maybe we'll get into that a little bit more. When we go national off the rails, Doug McLean next.