Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Hildeby Bottles Up the Lightning

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' 2-0 win over the Tampa Bay Lightning. They discuss Dennis Hildeby's impressive shutout, whether Bobby McMann will be suspended after his game misconduct, the team embracing a low-event style, and the power play's continued struggles. Later, they chat about Matias Maccelli's extended stay in the press box and whether the team has given up on him being a factor this season. Finally, Nick shares an update on Chris Tanev, who is considering surgery to make a return this season.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

The Real Kipper and Born show, Leaf Edition, hour of our program, and more importantly, on time. Right on time. at the end of the day he's a producer right i mean he's with us yeah he likes to think of himself as talent but he's a producer okay and he produced the other day a 415ish start because there's a Toronto blue jay press conference that will push us back 15 20 minutes so seven minutes too i get a full panic text and call i think i panic strong okay strong i just was saying that we're getting on a little bit. Listen, I, if Derek could get the beeping ready, I would like to throw Ryan Fabros straight under the bus.

If we get the beeping going on here, yeah, uh, beep, beep. But no, there we go. We thought we'd go a little longer, but guess what? We're right on time in a full hour to talk about a 1-0 hockey game. And all in funeral attire today. They're the boys in all black. What happened? Nick Pryoros, Justin Bourne, our very own Sammy McKee, Frank the Tank, Derek Brandeo, we're good to go here. Here's what, uh, good stuff to talk about too.

And he said, sorry about producing on my behalf, thought it would drag with three guys up there talking, including Boris. He says, they say that about you guys. So he feels really bad about it. Did you like the press conference? Was it super exciting? I, I think, I think transactions are really exciting. And I think there was a lot of stuff said in that about how far.

Toronto, the baseball market, has come as a attractive spot. So I would say, like, you know, having the most powerful agent in the sport up on stage with Dylan Sees and Ross Atkins talking at length about how great the Blue Js are as an organization, I don't think that can hurt. So throwing the cash around. Yeah, I mean, maybe Scott Boris could have gone in there and got the final two outs to the World Series for us and I wouldn't have to cry every night about it. But it was an exciting press conference.

I liked it. Good things for the Toronto. Blue Jays. So yeah. Dillon Cease is very serious and short. Serious and short about the team getting the most out of him and him getting to work. I liked it. 200 million? Two 10. Seven year, 2.10. Yeah. What have you heard about the city? He's like, oh, you know, I talked to

Kevin Gosman. He said it's great. He said it's great. I heard they're paying me 210 million. He's like, yeah. I think he would. Do you mention anything about traffic at all? I think, well, I mean, oh, this is great in L.A.? What is traffic good? You're going to go, like, what city in the major leagues? Go play with the Brewers, you're laughing. Ours is worse than L.A.'s.

No, it's the worst in North America. Is it? I think so. Worse in L.A. worse than L.A. Plus, potholes. I don't think L.A. has potholes like we do. Kipper, you came in today, blew in, how you're like, the traffic today, the traffic. I'm like, what was it that bad?

I did have to drive through it today. Did you? I did. Where are you coming from? You did it five minutes from there. No, no, I had a meeting. Oh. Yes, they had to actually use the Don Valley parking lot.

Oh, I mean, today would be probably the worst possible. Not fun. Not fun. But that's okay. Because we had fun last night. The Jays win again. Leaves. Oh, did I say the Jays?

Oh, God. Just used to the Jays winning. I am. See what Sammy's done to me. I know. He's turning me into baseball. Leif's win again. Yes.

Did you guys get the picture of my lamp chop? I did. Flamm chops and asparagus? It looked like you were having a nice time in the, alumni box? If we can break down that picture, the interesting part of that was... Tater tots? Yes.

It's a weird side. I was like, wow, this looks wonderful, classy, beautiful. Trailer park. It's a change in up. Napoleon dynamite in there. You can only go with the baby soft potatoes so often. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Fair enough.

So you went over to the kids table and got the tots. I did. I did. All right. Where do we want to start off of last night? Big picture. Back in the race. You want to break it down to the Hilda Beast or

or J.B., I'll let you start. Well, that is a good question. Standings are probably, we could leave that sort of talk for later. Let's start with talking with the game last night. I think over the last five games, the Toronto Maple Leafs have allowed two five-on-five goals. Chalk it up to goal tending, chalk it up to a little bit of last year, keeping things away from the net and to the outside.

They seem to have found what they looked like last year where you never go, boy, they pumped them. They just bumped them, but they win. They keep the score down, they get a couple, and they win. So first shout out of the year, Dennis Hild to be, tip of the hat. I held the beast. I talked yesterday about how the first game back from the road trip is often a dead one, where they're not great and they don't respond,

but they looked a lot like they had earlier in the season. And I was kind of hoping that they hadn't just turned back into the early season Leafs and I would say that last night the way that they look specifically in the second period for me fellas was an encouraging sign towards the rest of this year. You wouldn't even recognize last night's game

compared to what we saw for the first month in terms of time and space that the opponents had against the Leafs for three and a half weeks I'm on record at that time of saying they didn't look coached. Yeah. That's how bad it was. Yeah. Like I can't tell

what they're trying to do. And it looks like you can see coaching now. And I'm sure for Barubi's part, he's not changed the message. We know him well enough to know that he's not reinventing the wheel. Yeah. But things are falling in line. I think that has a lot to do with getting healthy, right? Like they got no forwards out right now.

Obviously missing a couple guys in the back end. But by and large, Matthews has been back seven games. 5-1-1 over that time. Joseph Wohl, to your point, straighten things out for them. And Dennis Heldabees picked up the mantle from there. All right. Oh, go ahead. Let's get Craig Brubi's overall thoughts, overview of what he saw last night with a 2-0 shut out.

Solid game. Goalie was good. I thought overall, I think we did a good job. They're obviously a talented group over there. And, you know, I think we did a good job of limiting them of real, real high quality chances. I thought our checking game was good tonight. He's not too excited about anything. No, which is good.

I am interested to jump off that and have and actually hear from Hildeby. Have you guys had much experience hearing or seeing Dennis Hildoby do words? This is the reason I cut the words you did. Did you? Because I wanted you guys to hear the words. All right. Yeah, play the Hildoby clip. I'm just trying to enjoy it.

I mean, it's easier said and done. But at the end of the day, it's like. like what I've been dreaming of since I started playing hockey. So it's just got to remind yourself of that and have a lot of fun in the meanwhile. Just compete. Wow. It never gets any different from that.

Very excited. He's very just the flat. He's a goalie. They're simple. You think? Yeah. I mean, Stollars literally came out in the sixth game of the season. Like, these guys reek.

I can't do it. Like, I don't think they're all wired exactly the same. Hailed to be is pretty reserved as goaltenders go, which is good. I don't think it's a coincidence. Like I saw Jordan Stiegel said to his article today and the tweet was like the start of the season they were getting 877 in the last seven games

in which they've got six points in six of the last seven. Their state percentage, I think, is 9.56. It's not really rocket science here to see why this season's turned around. And I think they've been better defensively, clearly. so that's helped the environment for the goal-tending. That's how I feel about it. For sure.

But, like, there have been games mixed in there, specifically, I think the game against Montreal on Saturday night, it was a miracle for them to get a point. They weren't very good. The one against Columbus with Joseph Wall. There's a few in there mixed in where if they don't have the goal-tending they have, they don't get the points, but you're right. It's been a better environment.

How much do you push this now? We've done this now. There's the third goal that we've done this with. What do you mean? And they're 0 for 2 when they push. Yes. So, like I said, No, yeah, great questions.

How far do you want to push this? Well, I would say, so they got, thankfully, they don't play until Thursday. And then it's Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday. Assuming Joe Wohl is eligible and able to play by Saturday, I assume he won't play. By Saturday. That's the time when they gave us. Would you, what reason would I not believe them? A week to come back.

They've given me nothing but reason to believe. To step on the ice, to have a practice, but to play. IR eligibility. Yeah, you're right. He hasn't done anything yet. You're going to be off the ice and then step on and play. All I know is you can't be afraid to play. Three or four days of practice.

Archer's act you'm off. I'm afraid of it. You can't be. I think you have to. But the way the schedule works, you're definitely doing it held to be Thursday. You're definitely doing it. Yes. Yes.

Right. You're right. Yeah, you're right. And then it's like, okay, do we now want to go five straight starts or whatever the forestry starts. So what you're pitching to me, right here, both of you fellows, is Actiumov on Saturday night against Connor McDavid and the Oilers.

No, no, no. So that's what this is being, which is being pitched to me as we speak. Well, if you know you don't have Joseph Wohl, and you would have to know that. Actaimov on Thursday against the sharks. That's that, which also, you got some scores there. So I don't have you heard of.

Is a possibility, too. I mean, you can't play double A on Saturday. Correct. Like I said, they're 0 for two with pushing envelopes. Yeah. And that's... What does that expression mean? What's that?

It means you've got... You've got three goalies coming into training camp this year that have never played the real part of a bona fide 50 plus starter. Right. Which is why it would be amazing if they could have played 35, 35 and 12. Split it up. Do you, you know, do you look at... Oh, they might actually.

Do you look at Hildeby and just say, I'm just going to ride this horse? I don't think you can do that to any horse anymore at all here in Toronto. But I don't know what his record is durability-wise when it comes to games played across his career. I think if he could show himself to be dependable in this organization, in terms of him staying healthy and him being able to be available and be in the net, he would really, really impress a lot of people

because that's been a huge issue here for the past couple of years in terms of goalie availability. So if he can just play, and if he, I mean, his play's obviously going to dip here, fellas. At some point, it's going to go the other way a little bit.

He's not just Vasaleski. Yeah, well, Jenks, he's not just Vaseleski all of a sudden. Between December 11th and December 23rd, so I got that at probably 13 days, they play seven times. A lot of hockey in a tight pocket there.

So you got to figure out wool Like I think they need clarity on wool Pretty early here And maybe need to bring somebody else in Or you just go into Acuma I think you can give double A a start Maybe two I don't know

How's he doing in the Marley's right now They like this kid He's you know You give kids a game here and there It's not the end of the world Gave Caden Primo three Yeah he wouldn't be worse than him And they went two and one

Yeah you're right Do we listen to Bruby On Bill Debe? No we didn't Let's have a listen to the head coach Describe Well, I think what I see in net is he's trusting his ability and his size and, you know, staying pretty calm and cool in that. That's what I see.

You know, his puck play's been good. But overall, his mindset is really good. Mindset's really good. All right. Yeah, that's what I saw last night for sure was a guy that understood. how big he is and trusted that he doesn't have to get super excited

in goal to have a part of the puck hit you when you're that big. Yeah, just be positional, it'll be square. He got some luck, right? Off the post, Stetcher pulled one off the line. Troy Stetcher, by the way, best defenseman leaves history. My God. So jokes aside, Stetcher's the best waiver claim

they've made since we've been doing this show. The best since Forzling. Yeah. Yeah. In the league. I just... Who gets claimed off waivers and plays 23 minutes a night? This guy played eight games for the team that went to the Stanley Cup final last year,

the Mton OI, was he played eight playoff games for them. Like, he's been in moments and... Okay, before we move to stature. Okay. Just want to wrap up the goaltending. Yes. Okay. Hill to be Thursday Saturday.

I think I need wool clarity. If you, if you don't have wool and you have to give double a game. Thursday. Thursday. I need to see him Thursday. If there's any signs of, if there's any signs of, all right, maybe he could use longer than 48 hours before. Like, he spoke to us through his words about trying to enjoy it. Like, you can't if you're playing every other night.

You're too busy worrying about your next start. You are not a tourist here on Make a Wish. We need you to now move on and goaltend again. Yeah. Yeah, if there's no wall, I'd consider Actiumov on Thursday. but I think I kept it's right I think I would go Hill to be Thursday and see if there's any cracks in the armor

Okay We don't need to go on to Stetcher That doesn't need to, that's not the next most interesting thing The next most interesting thing From that game last night to me was some of the drama We got a kneeing, a five-minute major Yeah And then you've had

McMahon balked the guy We had a McMahon hearing this afternoon Yeah, it already happened I did okay Yep and game could they bring it down to a find

listen all I saw last night was a two minute high stick you didn't think it was a crisis no come on we're going to suspend for that yeah huh interested to hear you say that yeah no I'm okay I get it

it looked worse than it really was I'm in big trouble here and I got I got bigger issues with the knee on Mermis. Yeah. Well, why is that? Where is that? Yeah.

Where's the hearing for that? And I've seen way worse not be suspended in the league already this year than what McMahon did. I'm sorry, but that's not a game for me. You want me to go, Sam? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I don't think it's a game. You know, to me, force is important here. And McMahon stick us up from whatever.

And he, yeah, he means to buy. Bonk him on the head, but he got five in a game, in a tight game. I don't think he, it wasn't like Brashear or even Bill Guerr and like, so where are you? You, am I wrong? No, it's just, we freaky Friday. I think he should have got, I think you should get a game and I've taken it like, why? Because.

Are you me now? I guess. You guys are in each other's body. But it's just, I, I've been taking a beating from my Lee Fran brethren on X because I said that it probably should be a game. Yeah. Like, does intent not matter? No, not in this case.

But I don't think the intent is to crunch him over the head. Like, I think he... Yes, it was. No, the intents to hit him in the head, but it's not with any force. It was kind of... What is happening? I feel like such an injury now. But, like, I thought his stick was high.

He looked Bjork Strand in his eyes and came down like that. And he missed. It was a glancing blow, but I think the intent is bad enough that if you're swinging your stick towards somebody's head or neck, You might get consideration for a game or a fine. I think it's fine. I think it's fine. If he gets fined, if he were suspended for a game, I wouldn't like,

this is outrageous because you're making some fair points. His stick is around the head of another guy. I don't think it's a game just because he got a pretty stiff punishment for it. There's no injury. Mermis is hurt now. Mermis is hurt. And the guy, McMahon, Bong, didn't even look at him. I don't think he's coming back anytime soon.

I'll hear that conversation that that is as dangerous of a play as Bobby McMahon. Is he trying to give him a little Charlie horse there, like driving his, like, knee? Knee. No, he left the knee in, and he, like, I mean, that, the one angle that's the worst for him is the one that, like, right on the glass one that kept showing on Amazon,

where he knows he's going to miss him. Knows he's going to miss him. He's looking right by him, doesn't try to slow down, doesn't try to miss him. So I think they're both. But, I mean, the, the Leif's conspiracy theory, boys and girls are out, but, but, like, the Leafs tax

with the Department of Player Safety that, I mean, the amount of times I've got sent to Jacob Trubas slashing the head from Frederick in my mentions today, people are, we're back. That's where we're definitely back. I'd be curious in 20 years if you were sitting there having a beer with Peros or whoever else is involved and said, because there's more of a spotlight on Toronto games, national media, whatever. Did it affect how any of your rulings went? I think they don't think so. I honestly don't.

But they do aware that they're. They're watched for it, way more. And I think in many ways, not that they're biased or they just go, let's screw the leaves, but there's a tendency maybe to overthink it because they know everybody's watching. I don't know if that makes any sense or not. It does, yeah, there be more, they're just accused of being. And yeah, I think it's in the back of their minds constantly that there's just, there's, there's more

repercussions on on how you decide in Toronto than there is in three quarters of the league. Totally. They're definitely... So is this a... I mean, we really have

freaky Friday because you're just like basically telling me that the league looks at these and like, yeah, but there's way more eyeballs on it and they suspend the least harder. But I'm like, no, no, no, they don't do that. No, no. They just, they just overthink it.

They just overthink it. They just overthink it, Sam. Yeah. But you're to the point where they just want to screw us. And that's not the case. Well. Okay. But that is, I mean, I'm just watching right now.

There's a big difference between like we're out to get you and we've probably over funked this. But Pierre Engval, if you guys remember, got suspended for slashing Sean Dersey like when he was on the Leafs. And he had never looked at anybody funny and he got suspended for it. And I'm watching the play right now. it's eerily similar. Like I do think that they're going to give Bobby a game and Lee fans are going to be pissed. Yeah.

They're going to be pissed. And now everybody's going to be pissed at me because I'm the only one in the show that thinks he deserves the game. Just because Truba didn't get suspended, it doesn't mean Bobby McMahon shouldn't get suspended. Truva should have got multiple games, in my opinion. Yeah.

Anyways. More importantly is that we did see a natural reaction from the Toronto Maple Leafs when it came to defending DJ players Jack Josh

Right it looked like a team It took him a little to work up That was the guy who did it That's the letter But he found them Let's go talk to him Let's go Squared up

Do something Beat them up Fight them I think there's an inherent lack of fear of the lightning From the Leaves I think they The Tampa Bay light

I think the Florida Panthers The Fire Panthers are in the Leaves had a little bit. I think there's a fear of the Florida Panthers in the lease. Leaves own the lightning. Leaves have beaten the lightning a lot. They're the only, one of the only teams that ever beat them in a playoff series.

Like, they... I was not impressed with them last night. You weren't at all. They started really well. They last execution. They lacked, like, the zip, the power play is as non-threatening as I've seen in years. Don't have one.

Out of Tampa Bay. You know what? The first 10 minutes, they passed it around, and I was like, oh, the lightning. And then it kind of died off. Yeah, it died down. You know, they didn't get the same chances. Kuturov on an off night is one of the harder watches in the league.

It's actually, he's got to have the biggest range. Like, if we did a show, the Kuturov daily talk would be electric. Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, some days he's an HL player. And some days he is Maurice Rocket Rashar. Yeah, he's un-real. Like, he's unreal. Yeah.

Yeah. But, I mean, he was quiet. A lot of outside stuff. I know they outshot the Leafs, I think, 15. to, I don't know, eight or nine, maybe it... Was that the first? The first? But a lot of outside stuff,

and then if they did get a good opportunity, Hildaby was big. The game... They missed Chernak, really bad. And McDonough. McDonough, too. Who just got a three-year deal. Crazy.

When they traded him away the first time, I was like, oh, that must be the end of him. Yeah. Nope. And it's just a lot of Moser and a lot of Rats. and a lot of these other guys that I mean I don't know how it came across on TV I was there live it was kind of a low event game you know there wasn't a ton really happening and it

obviously bowled well for the Leafs yeah but there was some times when nobody wanted to forecheck they'd line up you know in their formation of five guys waiting for you know someone behind the net there wasn't a pass there and like i don't know if you noticed how many flipped passes to get out of the zone there were last night leif least did it a least did it a hundred times oh my god no tampa did it too it was a ping pong match it's a flip off you start doing this people are going to bring ball gloves to the game hey uh radish played two and a half minutes more than their next most used defenseman yeah love him yeah also Crozier is listed as a D-Man?

What was he doing all the way up the ice against? Yeah, like I didn't see a lot of a true Tampa Bay type of execution in the past. And Braden Point, I know he was out. That was his first game back. He doesn't remotely look the same in his usual incredible steadiness of being a top player. He's not he's not anywhere near where he needs to be. You know who I do love on that team? And I know I think he finished Dash, too.

Last night didn't have any points. Obviously, nobody did because they got shut out. But I do think that Gensel is one of the most underrated players in the league. He tried to go back door and a player was really slick. And, you know, he cross-checks all of Recment-Larsson right near the goal. He tries to cross-check him into the goalie. Like, he's in the net front. He's always in people's faces.

During the Four Nations face-off, he was one of the guys that I feared by far the most in the States. Yeah, he's a big game player. And I can feel it already towards the Olympics. He's going to be on that team. He's going to be really scary for the state. I thought he was good last night, noticeable, one of their better players, underrated. Speaking of notable players who deserve a little love.

Is that your time? No, not quite stiff time yet. Jake McCabe absolutely bodied a couple of guys last night. Like, he plays with a ferocity that the Leafs, he's the only one who is that level. He's got a comfort zone, two on his side with Stetcher. Yeah, that's actually really helped him. He's got way better than Stetcher. Really helped him.

And he's got a nasty streak to him. Yeah. He's an old school dude. Yeah, he is. I think that's maybe the most important part of Stetcher is how much better he's made, McCabe. Good point. Like, I mean, he's just, those guys,

I mean, Chiefs are alluded to it a couple times, but they found instant chemistry. Yeah. And he's just playing on his right side. And I think Hickey said it on the broadcast line, and he's like, I wouldn't want to go in the corner with him. No. It's like he's a mean, dude, he's got a mean look at his face all the time.

The front of the net, he's just cross-checking mean. like turning him back into their best defensive defenseman has really been the big thing with stature. And Benoit back on his side is way better. Mermis, obviously unfortunate that he got hurt, but Benoit was better last night for me too. So why don't we listen? We got some thoughts on the defense from Barubi and give them some love. Yeah, structure, I think, you know, just defend in the middle of the ice against him. We talked before the game.

It's a very good rush team over there. We wanted to keep it to the outside as much as possible. and I thought we did a real good job of that and, you know, it wasn't a high event game, but I'm okay with that. Oh, yeah, I bet. Not just okay with it. It should be thrilled with it.

Is this it from here on end? Is this the kind of look that the Leafs have to have to win? Bad? I mean, hockey. Low event. Low event. Yeah, that's what they want. It is what they want.

It's not what I want. Willie okay with that? You know the answer to that. No. You're asking that question for a reason, bro. You know, the answer to that is that Willie's not going to do it. He's just going to keep willying when he's out there and everyone else can do it. That's, I mean, because it seems to be a lot of willying last night.

It seems to be a little out of sync, right? Like in the perfect world, you want this tight defensive game and then you want your stars to go out and do their thing. But right now, there just doesn't seem to be a good mix yet. You know, that whole second line needs help. Tavares, we talked about yesterday how he was overused in Matthew's absence and now he's got no legs. Cowan's in a stretch where he's looking, you know, like it's a lot, right, to jump to the NHL. Willie has died off. There's no one on the line that you're like, that guy pops right now.

They might need, if anyone needs to shuffle, they could probably use something. I don't know what the fancies are, but I think three of the lines and the leaves have been pretty good, but it feels like that's the one that has been. And actually, they got the softest matchup last night. So that line should have been. But not even just last night. for three or four games here, it feels like they've been underwater a little bit.

And maybe, I don't know, Cowan, maybe try Lawton with them to kind of give them a little shot in the arm. So I wanted to talk to ask Kip, your thoughts on, can we get Lotton up in the lineup at times? Maybe he doesn't have to live there, but could he play wing with Tavares and Nylander and get some pox and provide some pop?

Last night he was, you said in our group chat, he popped every time he was on the ice. Hound in the pocket. No, no, he's definitely an energy guy. guy he's turned himself into a guy that you can be you can rely on right i i think he's got him where he wants him right now 14 20 last night but that's a little does that yeah he i think his wheelhouse is 14 to 16 and a half totally but that's right three shifts that you put him up there with willie so varis played 1740 last night like you know i could

handle lawton for around that i think i think to your point yeah i would like to see more of that for sure i think and we've seen it on the power play where these guys are coming off like 50 seconds don't get the job done it's a whistle sorry off let's go second unit they should just i don't know guys the power play i got nothing else new to say but it's now arrived into 31st in the league uh one a point one percentage point better than the los angeles kings who are dead last they're 13.7, Kings are 13. We've been watching this team. This is our fifth year doing shows together, but we've been watching the whole Matthews

It's the worst I've ever seen it. Oh, by five. There's nothing good about it. There's not one thing where I'm like, oh, the breakouts, oh, the structure. They're getting They're getting nothing anywhere. It's getting worse, feels like. It is. It's definitely getting worse. And again, how much do you want to tax that on the defense

and the goalie? Because that's how they're winning right now, right? Right. I'm just saying that. You can relieve the pressure on those things. If you score a couple power, A power play goal would completely, completely change how you, you know, take some weight off the shoulders of a Hildebee right now or McCabe or, you know, dare I say, it's Stetcher right now with his 23 plus minutes, right? I mean, a couple of bad, a bad icing was, and a post was the difference between two points or one. Yeah. Right?

Or Callie Yarncrog Shoot it Looking at an empty net And deciding to do a turn back That had to attack How many guys do you have to deek? Yeah Just shoot at one point

When I was a kid I had to dee ten times Like five Five and then they catch up to me And I'd have to do it again five times You're just Lane Hudson He was looking for guys to deke How many power play

Physical power play goals Have they even scored this year? Oh I don't know And they've given up a couple shorties. They've got to be about plus five or something on the power play all year. It's been just rancid. I mean, we did it yesterday,

but I'll do it again. You just, you got to just go nuclear. You have to do it something completely different to get them out of it. They go back to it last night, but there's just so much pressure on it, and it's all those five guys that think they're supposed to be doing it right.

Just do something to alleviate the pressure so it looks different for a game or two. They're not giving up shorthand. goals. That's a plus. Like I, I never thought Mitch Marner was an awesome power play player. Like I, you know, he went 100 games without a power play goal. But obviously he could control the play for them.

The best it's ever looked in this whole era was when they went to five fours last year with him at the top. He was able to at least get them in the zone and set it up and help make the right pass. For me, yeah. Like, for me, he was never not electric at it. But they don't have anyone who, you know, Cowan might be that one. day Willie could do it but Willie's not a thinker like Mitch doesn't saw it better than Willie in that regard I don't know Morgan is should be simple and should be able to move it but then on the flanks I don't know man it's just you got to go to two units at this point we should

we talked about yesterday getting a couple pastors out there you got to do it you got to make the switch two units 30 for 31st yeah it's mind boggling and how much money is on that top unit Like, I mean, even, even, like, on the Amazon broadcasts, they come in from out of town, they're not, they're not watching the players out there. They're just like, look at the players out there. It is funny watching people who don't cover the game all the time, be shocked by what the Leafs are at times, in good and bad ways. But they're like, look at all the guys out there, like, what, it's mind-boggling.

It is mind-boggling. Yeah, it is. Like, if you went out there with no plan and played, you had one extra guy on the ice and were playing All-Stars, you think, you think, you'd do better than scoring 13% of the time. Yeah, it's mind-boggling, isn't it? It's mind-boggling. All right, we'll take a quick break, Sammy, or you want to give money away?

No, we'll do it after the break. All right. And text us, 595-90. Any thoughts on last night's action? Hit us up. Text 590-5-90, and we'll read some after break. All right, sounds good. More real Kipper and Boren when we return.

Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL, the J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download this. show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kippreel, it's the real Kipper and Bourne show Leaf Hour edition. We'll get to some texts. Yeah.

In the meantime, are you going to do a... Yeah, I'm going to do this. But I also am dealing with a... lake of coffee over here. Sammy spilt his coffee. And it happened about 30 seconds before we came back so we just got to leave it.

It's a disaster. We're not surprised. No, I know. I've been spilling stuff my whole life. Who wants to win a bunch of cash we're doing the best thing this holiday season? Sports 7-59 of the fan is all in supporting the 50-50 fortune for sick kids. It's a 50-50, so the more money we raise,

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Please play responsibly. Standard message and data rates may apply. Lottery license RAF 151 8410. Nice work. Nice job, Sammy. Okay. Before we get to text, just want to get your thoughts on

Machelli. And if this kind of I don't know experiment is kind of over or is there still time for him to come back in in the event that McMahon gets a game suspension

Thursday night would you consider putting him in over Nick Robertson like do you feel which we've seen in the past with a lot of guys including Dakota Joshua where you just felt compelled to stick with it to get these guys going.

Are we past that for Michelli? Like here's here's the good news. He's he's scheduled to play more games still this year than he did last year. You know, here, yeah. He's so many schedules a score, I think, six more points.

Here's my thoughts on this. You know, Nick Robertson, to me, is a better fit with Nylander and Tavares right now. Like, get in there. Let him have a chance to score against some lesser competition. Get them back into the, that top six where he had some success. Cowan can be good as a forechecker

working with, you know, Lawrence and Lotton, whoever, you know, whatever that sort of group looks like. So, no, Machelli's not the next guy to plug in for me. But the one thing that Machelli has going for him is I don't really feel like he played himself out of the lineup by being terrible. Like he just didn't, he didn't find it right away. And then they got healthy and other people played well.

I don't think Robertson, anyone thought he'd be this effective or Cowan would be this effective. He's on pace for 11 goals. Like, what's your interpretation of terrible? Well, I mean, he wasn't making bad plays. I didn't think he was turning a ton of pucks over. I actually thought at times there's life in his step and he could make some plays where the Leafs don't have a lot of guys who can.

So I don't have him as a guy who have given up on. Not that you were going to replace Mitch Marner, but he was the one guy that you thought out of all of them. Nick Waw and Dakota Joshua that he had a chance to put up 60 points. Maybe 70 on a good run. It felt to me like they bought, they had three lottery tickets

between Cowan, Machelli, and Robertson, small skill guys, and they're going, we need one, two of these guys at least to take. You know, Cowan, I think, has been good. Robertson said he was above those guys he was he was sure and they started him there but kip the early part part of the season here the Leafs were not they didn't look like themselves it was a discombobulated disorganized group Machelli was a part of that for sure but he's kind of been even more reason than to put him back in well I think now that they have found their structure and look better he'll have more of an opportunity to fit in see how he looks at this group I don't think he's great I'm not going I'm just saying I'm the GM I'm just saying I'm the GM I just saying I'm just traded a third rounder for him. I'm not giving him 16 games, 10 of them in the first 10 and going, okay, like,

I'm done with them. I think if they had a chance to get rid of his $3.2 million contract, they'd do it today. Yeah, I actually agree with that too. Just based on 3.2s a lot for what you might get out of it. Can I ask you that in that vein,

they just seemingly lost Mermis for, I don't know how long, that didn't look good. He was grabbing on his knee, and he couldn't put any weight on it so it didn't look pretty that's shame too he's been yeah really effective and i thought my uh benoit was immediately better with him on his on his pairing would there be a team out there that would be like hey problem for problem our depth guy defenseman that's not playing that you need to fill in on the bottom like because we can't do the

mire's thing again the mire's thing is unfortunately uh sailed like so i don't know if i don't know if there's another team out there that's looking to get rid of a defenseman like a bottom half of lineup guy that could fill in but i think there's enough teams looking for that could hang in their hat on maybe we'll strike lightning with this kid yeah but it would have to be money and money out yeah yeah i'm sure how that math you know who that math's for i look at seattle and they're sinking like a stone what else they can't score like yeah maybe they take a flyer on them yeah i don't know what they have the leaves have to eat half a million If you trade a third and then have to eat

after playing the kid 12 games. Was it a third? I thought it was a fourth. No, it was a third that if he scored 50 and they made the playoffs, turned into a second kid. Scored how many? 50 points.

Yeah. Okay. Sorry, I meant. That was misleading. Needless to say, wasn't going to be second if it needed to be 50 goals. Yeah.

Yeah. The Myers thing is unfortunate because last year in his limited run to the Leafs, he showed flashes of Like, oh, okay, he's got some offensive play. He's big. I got to say, people think that Justin Hall was a soft D man for the Leafs, six foot three, whatever.

That guy used to put himself in harm's way, block shots, take hits, break pucks out. This Myers, the opportunity he's gotten, that he hasn't shown any pulse. Yeah. That to me, I don't want to say it's soft, but it ain't hard. No. That to me is, what are you going to do here to earn this spot? and at this point he has had all the opportunity given to him he didn't seize it and uh i just don't see

how you can go back to him yeah uh i guess still no word on carlo no uh tannev is coming up to what might be about six weeks now uh and there is a sense that they're going to come to some sort of decision on whether or not he needs some surgery or not um for whatever ailing him. So you saw a video of him yesterday, skating, looking good. I think it's now just a matter of when he takes contact, when he plays, does it hurt? Does he feel like he can take more contact without growing more damage? So it's like the risk assessment stage of this.

Yeah, and we're, you know, we've mentioned neck stuff before. Yes. Spine, disc, whatever. It's something going on back there. Something's going on back there. And whether or not, if they decide whether or not, if they decide whether. a surgery could help alleviate some of that. And in the event that that would have to happen,

what we know about those sort of procedures, it is a long recovery. Yeah. There's a belief that if they do it, he will not be out the rest of the season. You could do surgery and see him this season? Yes. That's surprising to me.

Shocked. Yeah, me too. It's not what I've heard. That would be great news for the Leafs of the... Listen, I... This is what I'm told. Oh, I know, I know. This is what I'm told that the belief is.

To your point, if they go in, if they decide on surgery, they open it up, it's worse than it looks. It's not what they thought. Yeah, it could be. There's always the thought that, no, we don't want to take a chance or we're not ready to give you a green light the rest of the season. And, you know, you weigh pros and cons of where you are. And that's always the case. But as of at least being optimistic, and we've heard Craig Broby be a little optimistic,

albeit he is with most of his guys, they think that if they do choose some sort of procedure, that there's still a chance for him to come back, which I think is great news. Can I tell you what I hear in all that is there's no win for the Leafs fans or the Leafs team this year? because one, you have a guy who's going to try to make it work, he's going to play through it,

and every shift is a risk of it all coming unglued. Two is a guy who would have a procedure who, let's say he could come back, what level of athlete are you getting who has not played hockey for four months and suddenly is like, here's playoffs. He ain't 23. No.

So there is a level of, what happened to him and then what happened to him specifically with all those years of wear and tear on him. So there's so many factors going in on if we're just talking about a specific incident

or if we're just talking about a body that naturally starts shutting down on an athlete in the latter parts of his career. Like I stopped playing. at 26. I'm in my very early 40s. And I wake up. You know, my back is not great. I can't. My shoulders sound like Rice Krispies, like my knee and hit. Why do you just stop right now? I don't look at you.

I know. You're too young. I don't want to hear it. So what you're telling me is you're not going to go fulfill rivers. But Kip, you played till you were in your 30s. Yeah. I was a young 30, too. Yeah. Okay. 33. 30. and you put your body on the line when you played and all that. Like TANF has been through, he's been hit 5,000 times more than I have in my career. More than anyone in the league and block shots. It's unbelievable. The amount of abuse he has taken over the years and then somehow, some way, always coming back.

Oh, Tannab has gone down the tunnel. A period. And he's back. Yeah. A game. You know, and he's back. You know, and he's battled shoulders, knees, he's done it all, and he still finds a way to come back and compete.

He's been phenomenal. He's been phenomenal. I have more respect for him than, you know, just about anyone else I've ever seen play hockey, the way he puts himself out there. So I got people to send it in decks, and there's like a thousand decks, and it's now 449.

Okay, all right, let's get a couple of people. A lot of people ask about Matt Benning. Yeah, Matt Benning. I mean, he played NHL games. I wonder how many he's played. I have it here. He's played 400. 164 career NHL games.

Troy Stetcher and Matt Benning? Well, he shoots right. So does Stetcher. Yeah, no, he's 6-1, he's 31, playing the Marley, he's played. But they're like twins. He's 31. 31. He's a little bigger than Stetcher.

6-1, Stetcher's. So, I mean, that's... There's only one room for, I think, that kind of player. One Rudy. You don't think he's better than Myers? That I'd be willing to try. Yeah. Mirmus, for me, is the exact guy they've been looking for.

Someone who, Mirmus to me is old, Benoit, two years ago when it was like, want to be in the league, do what it takes, what do you need, off the glass and out, defend, play hard. Benoit now has flashes of Gila Fleur to his game that I don't need. Hey, boys, love the show. Just wanted to point out that you guys have way more chemistry than the Leafs have in the last 10 years. No, no, not recently. And it's really.

They're coming on strong right now with the chemistry. It's really palpable, she says. But she's making fun of me. She says, I would love to know if Sammy thinks Nielander shouldn't compete for Sweden because he was born in Canada. And that's a shot at me on Friday for saying about the Italy versus Canada for him at BMO. Good one. Right?

She nailed you. She got me. I have no response to that, Tamara. I have no comments or questions at this time. Take that all and move on. You got me. But you're used to that from us. Yeah.

That's the way she goes. Hey, what's the deal with Jacob Chickren's. birth he's he's Canadian he's Canadian not not no US no I think he's a duel I think he yeah I don't know they moved to Florida or is he born in Florida I don't know I'm sure anyway sorry yeah I know he's Canadian eligible but I think he's also American like I think if either team wanted him I think he's available hey did you guys see the picture last night so they always do the state controlled media where they do the video after the game of the hurrah Did you see the picture that included Actyamov, Joseph Wall, Dennis Hildeby,

and an Anthony Stolars sighting? He was in the room in the picture taking a picture. No. Didn't see that, eh? That's good. That's a really cool shot, by the way. It is very cool. But does that mean, if he's...

Four of them. It's good to see him upright. It's not good when you have four goalies. He was up for sure he was? He was sitting, at least. The NFL expression is if you've got two starting quarterbacks, you've got no starting quarterback? It's probably the same for having four goalies. Wow, I mean, it's pretty good goalie depth.

Who, uh... Just trade one. The Carlo thing. Get them all ready and trade one. The Carlo thing, do we know anything? Words on what's happening there? No. No. Is he rooming with Stolars? On Roboto Island? Jay from Mississauga. Where does Troy Stetcher fit in when Carlo and Tanniv come back?

Love the show. Thanks for bringing the heat. You show me a world where all three of them are healthy and in the line. That's a great right side of your defense. That's a great right side of your defense. your defense. Yeah, I'd be happy to solve that problem. I don't think you're going to have to. That's my take.

Not going to be a thing. And if you have to solve it, he's your seventh thee. That's just like he was on a very good team last year. You trade somebody. That's how you solve it. Anytime the Leafs have an excess of value anyway, you're like, ship it out. I'm telling you, that's how desperate they are for assets. It would be fun.

And they need, they need to do something. It's hard. But like, you, first of all, you're not trading them because you don't know what you have. You don't know what you're trading for. Also, no team who's going to win a cop is trying to trade for him. So who's trading for him? Listen, you can always take a chance for him, but like, what are you going to pay?

Like, you don't need, you don't know, you don't always range right now. What's the old are's worth to the oilers? At the deadline, first and a... Listen, right now, the same as you, nothing. If he plays 10 games and looks half decent before the deadline, what's he looked like to the Oilers, very good. Trade him to there. ifs and butts for candies

and every day would be Christmas. Correct, correct, correct, correct, correct. Well, listen, he's new contract hasn't even kicked in until next year. Guys, he hurt, he got to hurt. He's out for a month here or whatever. He's not dead. I know. He'll be back.

He's fine. He's fine. For good. How long? That's the danger of two also trading for him is that you just don't know when he's going to be in and out of a line. Oh, yeah, and full Demco. level with Stollars or it's just never going to

Kipper is right. The Toronto commute traffic is worse than and worse than North America. It's worse than Los Angeles. This has been well documented. Try to keep up Borny. Is that from Stephen the Hammer? Is that Otani? Yeah. Was that Otani writing into our show? Come on. I apologize for my lack of traffic.

How about Freddie's commercial with the kids? Freddie? Freddie. Freeman. he's the best he's awesome i love him i give him full marks for doing it there's two guys i like in that team yamamoto i respect the hell of haunted my dreams but unbelievable and i love the show i love freeman can't say nice i love freeman get out of all right just like that the hour's up a full hour i thought we were doing 15 minutes today i was always scheduled to talk for 43 minutes that's what i was told ryan fabro yeah coming up next as we go national on the real

Kipper and Bourne show, Steve Vallicette. What's he think of The Hilda Beast? Oh, yeah.