Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Home Stand Slump

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 4-2 loss to the Senators on Saturday as the team's slide continues. They share their panic levels and discuss Craig Berube's emphasis on urgency, whether the system needs a change, Mitch Marner's mentality, Scott Laughton moving down to the 4th line, Jake McCabe's recent slide and much more. Later, Hockey Night in Canada analyst Craig Simpson (34:50) looks at the Leafs' playoff outlook after this recent slump, how this season's team differs from previous years, and where their focus should be down the stretch.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Anytime you start on a Monday, there's plenty of reasons to be optimistic. Oh, don't you think it's always a fresh start to a fresh week? Yes, yes, yes. Do you see where I'm going with this on our latest edition of real Kiprin born leaf edition? Yes, I do. Welcome aboard. I'm Nick Kiprios, Justin born Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo and Jen Rolnick in for the next two hours. No Jen Rolnick. I was just ruined. I already blew it. I'm not as optimistic now. Jake the snake Schultz, even though I saw Jen Rolnick upstairs

So she sets everything up for our show and then Jake comes in and he does the actual show So she's here until four o'clock then Jake subs in for our show and fan drive time. That's how the sausage is Isn't that something I should have been told like in September? Well Kipper when you put the name on the lineup of the proper guy That's right in front of you, you know You did overrule the lineup for once proper guy that's right in front of you. You know? You did overrule the lineup for once and it didn't work. Fair point, fair point. Thank you. Can I say we're alive on Sportsnet 590, the fan?

We are. Sportsnet 360? Yes. Sportsnet Plus? Those are all correct things. Accurate. Accurate. Thank goodness.

Okay, let's get this thing going again. Okay. I went to the game Saturday night. Cool. Yeah, and let me tell you something the lamb chops were Delicious in the alumni bar lamb chops you do like a mint jelly or what? Yeah more of a Think a garlic sauce. Oh nice. That's great. Yeah, but outside of that a Lot of disappointed Lee fans for the second time a key divisional game

First one against Florida obviously, but the second one goes Against a team that is inching ever so closer to you in the standings. So Where did I want to start with you? Because if I start with the other guy on our show then Where did I want to start with you because if I start with the other guy on our show, then I'm really nervous on that. Well, I think good hockey game, you know, like it was a good energy, good pace. I thought it was fun. They didn't win. I don't know if you noticed that part.

That part was a bummer. Yeah, you know, I'm going to try to keep things positive today, not for the sake of keeping it positive, but because I do feel like some of the narrative is swinging towards this leaves team suck and they don't. You know, they have lost some games to some very good teams in this stretch. We know it's seven games since they've won in regulation, Vegas, Colorado, Florida, some of the best teams in the league there, hot Ottawa team. They haven't lost a game by two goals, you know, not counting empty netters.

So they've been in every game and I still feel like the bones of some positivity are here. So I'm not as panicked today as some people, but I think it's clear that something needs to change, right? They're not getting over the hump against these good opponents and you're going to have to beat good teams in the playoffs. So that would be the greater concern. They're not suddenly bad, but boy, they got to find something better

Go ahead Sammy. Well, yeah, I think there's something to that that you look at the team and There's similar players on the team to when they've played well and you know, there's there's reasons for them to pull out of this But I would argue that this has been the worst stretch of hockey in the Matthews and Marner era since Babcock got fired. Like before that Babcock got fired, that stretch they were really,

I couldn't tell you exactly how many they'd lost in a row or what the stretch was, but I really can't remember them losing six of seven at any point over this era. They really haven't gone into these long slides. It's actually been a bit of a calling card of this group that they haven't really had long losing streaks. And I just think it's a very uninspired hockey team

right now that generally people don't enjoy watching voice. Like, that's a common thing that I'm getting like I get a ton of messages from fans and DMs and texts and a lot of it is there's just Sucks to watch right now according to my math They give up one fewer chance per game than last year and they create Two fewer chances for the selves which means there's three fewer chances per game total, two of them that would be the Leafs, so that's concerning. All right, I wanna pick up right off of that.

Let's just go to Craig Beruvia on his thoughts Saturday night and we'll follow it up with your comment on lack of opportunities compared to last season. I thought, of opportunities compared to last season? I thought, you know, we didn't, I'd use the word urgency, some detailed stuff. You know, I thought that there are three goals were all about losing battles inside the blue line.

You know, we didn't get enough, win enough battles there in that area of the game. And, you know, it's urgency for me and details in the first two periods that weren't there. But when we decide to have urgency and do things the right way, we're a way better team than a third, but you're behind it Sometimes you don't come back. We had chances, but that's what happens

All right once again, they They get a lead right seemed like good energy, especially after Willie knee landers What a pretty pretty darn? Great individual effort. Yeah, beautiful. And, you know, a couple of new guys helped out there. Lawton went to the net.

Carlo, it's knocked down back door, created some space for Willie. That was a very positive moment. And it's nice for the coach when your idea of putting a score on the third line goes up against some lesser competition and he ends up putting one in the net. Yeah. All is looking very well from the start of the game. It was. Then what? putting one in the net all is looking very well from the start of the game it was then what just some bad mistakes some bad decisions for me yeah you were

saying though with the chances for you don't feel like they're well yeah to me at times I know to Sammy's point that they get accused of boring hockey or just uninspired hockey. And I'm just wondering now is, are we are we down to looking at Craig Barubey and saying, okay, something needs to change systematically with this hockey club because whatever we thought was working in November is No longer working anymore. And the one thing that I'll remain consistent on is that that The the gap between the defense and the forwards to me remains like huge there are times when I watched Carlo behind the net and and the forwards to me remains like huge.

There are times when I watched Carlo behind the net and everybody's out of the zone. And it gets to the point where if he's challenged at all, like wingers have to come back into the zone to help. Like they're not even in a support position just in case if he falls down, if he blows an edge, there's just nobody around. The constant stretch passing and then the turnover in the neutral zone only to come

back in your own zone is a constant thing that I see almost every other shift now. Yeah, it's funny because they're banking on this idea that in playoffs, the possession hockey they played of all didn't work. So in playoffs, they're going to go north, they're going to chip it off the boards, you're going to chip it in, they're going to go get it. Because again, they hadn't had success the other way. But we used to say last year when they would go down the game, that they were never out of it, right?

They're down five, nothing to Columbus and went to overtime at one point last year. They had this unbelievable ability to come back in games scored a million six on five goals. It felt like a million six on five goals. And in terms of like underlying possession stuff, I'm doing some work with AWS for an article. All right. This week for their ice tilt, which is where the players and the puck are in the game. And even when the Leafs would lose last year and previous years, they generally controlled the play. This year, they're no good. I mean, they're really no good.

Of the teams are going to make the playoffs, it's like them in LA who are at the bottom of that. They're, they're never more than 50%, almost never twice the last 15, I think. So yeah, they're, they're playing in a way that they don't have the puck. They don't control offense and to your point disconnected I think the crosshairs of a lot of least nation has made its way towards Craig Borubey and I think a lot of people are starting to Talk systems talk about matchup with roster in terms of the dump and chase in the north-south

and if it's a north-south roster. But, I don't necessarily agree like at the start on time stuff and all these different things that have been a theme through eight years where there's one common thing and it's all these guys have played together for however long. But hold on here, the Leafs have been good. Yeah in the regular season. No the start of games in this stretch where they've been bad. Yeah. They've

blown leads what five times six times. But I mean he's getting ahead. He's alluding to the fact that like he didn't like the start like we can play we can play clip two. Yeah play clip two. Yeah, play clip two. I mean, it's hockey, right? There's certain stretches you go through where it's not there and you just keep battling away as a coach and you gotta hold your players accountable to it and they gotta hold themselves accountable to it. They need to make their mind up in the room,

the importance of the start of the game and 60 minutes of you know urgency details doing things right playing our game you know we just I didn't find that we wanted to play our game early enough in this game we want to bring pucks back and play slow and try to go through them and yeah we had some chances off the rush I get all, but you don't build your game. Third period, kind of we played more North, won more battles, more urgency,

and it's a different period, right? So it's about us getting together here and put 60 minutes together of that. See, and this is basically... You're intrigued by that. You don't agree. I guess I'm curious about it. Like, you know, I thought they played well early in that game.

And his point about regrouping, bringing it back, having the puck, I thought the Leafs look pretty good. They end up giving up a few goals and I'm not so sure that they started playing. They were way better than the third, but I'm not so sure that that came on the back at dump and chase. I didn't. I don't know. And I just know that going into I've talked to coaches,

we interview coaches all the time and ask them, do you coach to your roster or coach the way you want to coach no matter who's on your team? And pretty much Laviolat in particular was saying, well, you got to look at who you got. Coach your roster. You know, what's their greatest strength? it does feel like... He's coaching them as simple as they can get. Well that's it, but is that the right way for this roster? I don't know. I don't either. This is what we're gonna end up seeing if he's right in the end. Judging by the way I watched Auston Matthews play, no. Is it

too simple for him? Is his creativity gone? Is his sense of, I must do this, this and this gone? And is it a trickle down effect? I'm just guessing right now. I don't know. But it just seems to me like they're on this like robotic must do this, must do that, must chip in puck, dump in. And it's like, it's not working right now. And to Craig Bruby's point, like you can be up a goal or down a goal and you can think you're one shot away, but we can watch over the course of 60 minutes going, that team's harder on pucks. That team's in the Leaf end a lot more

than the Leafs are in their end. They're not coming out of their own zone as clean as the other team. They're not making three or four direct passes like the other team. That's the problem. It's not just being up or down a goal. It's just that the overall optics of this team, it looks better than that team.

It's interesting to me because like, it feels like the Leafs, you know, I said I like their roster. So to me, they still have the same core four in their prime. They're great. They got this other layer of McMahon and Nies who can be secondary scoring. I like their decor more than I have. And I'm sitting there earlier today trying to figure out what is it I like less. And really, you have multiple players, individuals who are good players having their worst seasons as a Leaf at the same time. And it's the first year that Barube's been here that, you that, Matthews is at his worst and Riley's been at his worst.

Say what you will about Tavares who's shooting it in the net at a good rate. A lot of his numbers, they don't control the play. No. When he's out there at five on five. And you need those guys to be great. And Marner's having, early in the season we were like, this is an unbelievable season. Yeah, he's kind of back to a hundred point pace

he's been kind of dry he was awful Saturday night he was he had a tough one yeah he had a tough one yeah and since Four Nations they've just not been couldn't handle the puck he was giving it away things that we haven't seen all season can I can I ask you about him and you know, you got to tread lightly here but Since this contract stuff and since the trade and since All that stuff like the trade rumors and stuff You know really good this saturday night in colorado the the day it happens all that like he has two goals in that game

Pretty dynamic has a bit has two goals in that game, pretty dynamic, has a bit of energy in that game. And since then, I don't think it's been particularly good and he's fumbling pucks, like you said, way more than he ever has. Like, do you think that that has any sort of bearing on what's happened over the past three games in terms of his confidence in terms of what he's going through? It is possible. Yeah, it is possible, but

I look at a bigger picture that this team for a long time has been teetering on things that have not looked good or heading in the right direction. They've been trending down much longer than the news that he declined to go to Carolina. For sure, that's totally accurate. Not him, throughout the Kipper he was very good. Eventually, if things don't get corrected,

it affects everybody. Yeah, that's fair. And on top of that, now he's not playing at a high level anymore. For me to sit there and say directly that it became a huge distraction all of a sudden off of that Colorado game now, it's really sinking in and that's I feel better if the team was playing well and then he started going south on his own but that's not the case yeah but but it's a legitimate question now it is it's like okay well how big of a distraction was it I who knows what's going on in that room right now?

Someone wrote Sam and I, excuse me guys, a very long email about how, you know, when you're managing people, you know, what it does to someone when you basically say, would you leave? You don't wanna leave? Okay, you'll stay. You know, does that affect them in some way?

Is there some sort of discontent or frustration? And I'm not just talking about Marner when I say that, but like, it's strange that there's not they're not getting more out of this roster. Yeah, it's just strange because again, and I've said it on the show today, I look at it and go, God, there's the bones. This could catch fire like that. It's like dry tinder. But for some reason, they cannot get the fire started.

It's damp mulch at the moment. Exactly. It's like, why isn't this more dangerous? Why isn't this on fire, you know just to add to your question You had to have thought that between Brendan Shanahan and Brad tree-living and Berube in July or August there were ample conversations on, we don't have Mitch on a contract past this season. How are we gonna handle it? How do we make sure that this doesn't become a distraction

or take the focus away from what we're trying to do this year and Can we say for the most part of the season they were able to do that and Then with Marlene. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We didn't sit here and we weren't even close to having Marner Conversations like we had Willie a year ago. Yeah, that's true. But no, like we talked about Willie a lot more. A lot more.

A lot more contract and what's going to happen and how much we just kind of left it alone. Everybody left the Marner. What's going to happen to Mitch Marner? And every once in a while, it could pop up, but it wasn't like, oh, are they going to trade him? Are they not going to trade them? How much? It just didn't exist. For the most part, it was left alone.

And then boom, bang. And now, when you don't win, it will be asked time and time again. And here's the thing, kid. This is not a good player on a good team who's a part of something greater. The Leafs are unique in that they spent so much of their salary cap on these few guys, and we've always said this, they're Team A stuff. But like, if their Team A isn't elite, the whole plan doesn't work. The whole plan is built around these guys are not just good players in the league. They're among the 10 best or you know, whatever you think the numbers are 15 between between 10 and 20. Yeah, they're somewhere in that range. And you know, Matthew's

won a heart trophy. Like these are supposed to be this not they're okay. So when they're okay, it's they got not they're an average team right back on their shoulders. What's that? It's right back on their shoulders. What's that? It's right back on their shoulders. 100%. And that's the way it's constructed. It is their team to win or lose. So tonight they're playing a team, the Calgary Flames, and we'll get more into that, who

I was a part of the Flames broadcast. Last week we interviewed Ryan Huska before the game and he said, we have a leadership group of six. He said, I'll give you the six names right now. And it's, you know, Coleman, Codrie, Anderson, Hubert O, whoever it is exactly, Weger, six of them there. And they come in his office, they meet every Monday, and they talk to the team and they're this part of whatever, you know, are the Leafs that connected with the coach and the team and whatever, we do have a quote on their leadership group. group? It was about, it kind of got a, yeah, play the clip three there Derek.

What stands out about the leadership group so far, what you've learned about them that leads you to believe they're going to be able to get this back on? Well 100% I do believe that, yeah. These guys, they want to win, trust me on that, they want to. And they want to, you know, there's a sense of frustration for sure. And we've got to look past that. You know, we can't complain about or get undisciplined because teams are checking us hard. And that's what you've got to get through. They checked hard tonight. Florida checked hard teams are gonna check hard every game We play they're gonna check hard and you got to fight through the check. You got to fight through the checking

Does that is that what's happening to his? Leadership group of Marner Matthews and not fighting through check fighting through checks now. I You know watching Matthew he's behind them 100% He will not question anything about them. Yeah, right? but with 15 games to go was Is he smart to do that or should he challenge? Yeah. No, it's too late to challenge to it's I Tend to agree and whatever is being set said behind scenes. You hope I mean same page, but he and whatever's being said behind scenes, you hope. But he's got to get them going. But the one thing he repeatedly has done here,

which I tweeted some of my frustration about it, is he's gone back to the lines, right? Tonight they're going to see the exact same lineup they've seen, nice Matthews Marner. It's going to be Domi's playing center again on that third line we've seen with Robertson and McMahon It's back to home bird in home bird into the top six, right? Like this is back to his comfort spot and you can either look at that as this is a show of confidence that he believes In them and this is the way it's happy to take time to break or a lot of a lack of creativity in looking for other things

Why don't we listen to Ruby clip sticks on the new old lines? Yeah, just success that we've had you know in the chemistry that they have and then I wanted to create a line of with Lawton and Lorenz and Yarny of just more of an identity line a check-in line There you go So now they got the guy, they got to play center so Domi doesn't have to. Scott Lawton who fought last game trying to get himself into the game as a leaf, had

his best touches, threw some hits. They got him on the fourth line. Camp is still out. The guy who was playing 15, 16 minutes a game for this team two years ago, that to me is like, you're not doing this in playoff. Camp is going to be in the lineup. You're not playing Lawton on the fourth line. I don't get that one.

OK, just to add to the broader scope of a conversation, let's get Craig Brewley's thoughts on Lawton's game Saturday night. Clip it. Well, his best game was last game. Way more involved playing his type of hockey that he plays. And that was one of the thoughts going into putting this line together, that's probably a good line for him.

That's playing that hard hockey, that heavy hockey, checking hockey, physical with those two guys. So we'll see where it goes. OK, so for me, I said the first two games he's got to be more physically engaged than he was Saturday night. At the same time, you didn't trade him to replace Camp. No, he's new camp. That's what's going on here.

And what did they give up for him? First and Grubankin. Grubankin, third best prospect? Whatever he is. I don't know. These are the conversation of their prospects. Okay. And first you said?

Yes. I would much rather him said, Lotton's going to play on the second line with Tavares and Neylander, or Marner, whatever. Tavares and Neylander and Lotton. Lotton's going to be at the net. He helped Willie get his one goal.

He's going to four check for them. He's going to be the grit and grind guy who if he gets a touch can shoot it in. We're back to Domi at third line center or whatever. That makes sense to me. Okay, well you back to Domi at third line center or whatever. That makes sense to me. I know, okay, well you want to play him at wing. That's too bad it didn't work out at center.

But now just fourth line center. Domi still at center. It's like, what? He has to, they're gonna have to find a way to get him back up the lineup. He cannot trade a first and a prospect for a guy playing. Would he play Saturday, even Saturday? Did he? He was hurt prospect for a guy playing, what'd he play Saturday, even Saturday? Did he?

He was hurt on, for a bit. He left the game late, or it was like midway through the third period, he got high stick, probably around the 10 minute mark, didn't come back. So he probably played. 13? I was gonna say probably a while or something. Okay, all right, so maybe he was headed towards 14 or 15,

but that's where he has to be eventually here. Right, if I'm tree. I'm like, what do you mean? He's playing fourth line center. We just got him for you So I'm not gonna claim buyers remorse here, but I Always I always pushed for the team to get somebody that could come closer to Supporting Willie Austin for the team to get somebody that could come closer to supporting Willie, Austin, Mitch, Tavares, a guy that could step in and hold his own just in case maybe Tavares went down with an injury. That's not Lawton. No. No, they went big on D. They needed a guy that could legitimately hold a top six spot on his worst days. But they didn't get him. But they didn't get him. And so now it's like we need to get the most out of this guy.

We need to get the 15-20 goal Lawton, who every four or five games shoots one in, four checks, plays 15 minutes, kills penalties. You know, this is not setting him up for success unless you feel like he's off, he's hurt or he's whatever. And let's give some credit to Lawton. Tough spot. Career guy, 30 years old, been a flyer his whole life, you know, comes to Toronto where there's max pressure. You know, you're getting settled, you're on the road.

It's a lot. You know, that was his third game, I think, with the team. And now they're like, yeah, you're going to, you're on the road, it's a lot. You know, that was his third game, I think, with the team. And now they're like, yeah, you're gonna be four seeds. Ah, I just don't love the way that sets him up. I do feel like I would rather see Kempf play in their third line center, try to get this guy going. He's a guy that they, I know there's more there. And we've seen him be more for them.

He scored 10 when you're playing 15 a night. He's still your most natural centerman outside of your top six. And they got Austin Killen penalties, you know, as one of the first guys over the boards. Well, Kampf's either not killing or in the press box. This guy was your best killer. Him and Mitch can go kill. Save Matthews from playing 22 a night, play him 20 a night and let Kamp kill. Okay, let's get Craig Brewery's thoughts. I can't disagree with anything you just said there, Mike.

Let's get his thoughts on the PK clip 8. Well, I mean, there's certain mistakes that happen on PKs, right? And there's goals that go in. I mean, the one went off, Tani. I mean, it's, you know, we don't, we're not gonna go away from what we do as a penalty kill unit, but there's always things that we try to clean up on it a little bit. Again, you know, on the penalty kill side of things, there's gotta be a little bit more urgency

in that department too, and blocking some more shots, taking care of the front of the net. You know, if you look at the goals that Florida scored on us, they're right there in the crease, and we got to win those. We got to do a better job of that. He just mentioned the goal that went off a tan of stick at Giroux. That's not a bad bounce, hard luck bad bounce. the goal that went off a tan of stick at Giroux. Like, that's not a bad bounce. Hard luck, bad bounce.

You go watch, you go watch the face-off that was just five seconds prior to that. At least want a clean draw. And, and McCabe, who is shoulder to shoulder on the wall with Zetterberg, Zetterland? Zetterland. Zetterland? Yeah.

He's first on the puck. Like McCabe is totally flat-footed. He gets the puck back to the wall. Now McCabe goes and chases to try to find a puck that's not even 50-50. It's more like 70-30 Ottawa, and he totally goes on the wrong side of the puck and creates this odd man rush. That's the goal.

That's why the goal went in, not because it bounced a bad bounce. It was two colossal mistakes by Jake McCabe on that penalty kill, and those are the mistakes that kill you. Yeah he's not been great. No no he had a very difficult night in my opinion and this is the stuff that when you're 15 games out of your first game in the playoffs should not happen.

I will say I don't hate that they're not like peak right now. I feel like teams peak right now and they think this is playoffs and then you got a month of hockey and all of a sudden it's like it's a long time to hold the peak. But you want some signs that things aren't bad and they're not getting a ton of those. I don't want it to feel like the start of the slide when you're already six games into it. Right. You want it to feel like there's signs of them coming out. Right. Like, you know, I watch them play right now and the thought that crosses my mind is like, thank God they got good goaltending at the start of the year because there's been we

talk how many times we talked about how many points goaltending has gotten them this year. Like we settled around 10 12 points. I think we're past that but like think, think, just for argument's sake, let's say it's 10 points and they had lost five due to goaltending or lost six due to goaltending out of that stretch. You'd be fighting tooth and nail for a playoff spot. Like the East all of a sudden,

all these teams are right around there. Ottawa's four points back of you. Gotta wake up here in a hurry. So did goaltending cover up Yeah a lot all along here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've been on that Yeah, you know like they're like you said we they don't So is that what you know chains one?

less chance or two less chances offensively and now more like It's it's ridiculous to think that you need That high-level goal tending to be successful. I like it's just it's unrealistic it is But you know you go in playoffs and you're playing north-south and your goalies hot and you got a couple of superstars You know like it's not like you can't see a world where they have success It's not the process is bad. There will be 16 other teams claiming the same thing. Of course.

But with some with more reputable, high end, goaltenders than what the Leafs have. That's not the case because they're not, you know, Florida's not or Colorado or Vegas, they're not going into it going, we're going to get outplayed. We're going to get great goaltending and hope we get some in, you know, hope we get some bounces. That's the Leafs game plan right now. Yeah, that's a bad game plan.

It's beaten them in the past, but I agree it is, but it, you know. They gotta clean up in front of them. So I don't know if the answer is, do you max out Matthews to try to win the division? By the way, you mentioned Ottawa four points behind them. They're four points out of first because Florida keeps stinking it up

and they have two games in hand. Florida only played well against the Lees. They're right there for the division still. I know. So do you want Matthews to pin it, try to win the division in hopes of getting Columbus or Montreal, or do you want to sit him down and say, we just need more from you later.

We just need more from you. Come playoffs. The rest hasn't worked. Are we all in belief though that he is physically not right? Yes. I can't speak to being physical or mental, but he's not right. I have no other conclusion to say that he's physically not there.

Well, the thing that makes me wonder, like, is it mental? And Sam, I'll give you credit because you're the one who brought up the play from before the show. Oh, the stick? Yeah, where like, Knies wraps one around and it hits, lands on Matthew's blade in the slot with like seven minutes left.

And he panicked, like one hand flew off this stick you know he kind of fumbled it into someone's skates and it was like you know the meme from the from the the office where the guys carry chili that's what it looked like i'm like it's like the greatest goal scorer in the world the best guy right the net shooter inner guy it's like it whether it's confidence or something else or whatever. It's just like his moments I think in the first innovation if I'm not mistaken Ron McClane on Hockey Night Canada asked if there should have been a penalty on him to recall them get a hugged It was the hook behind it wasn't much. I like the fish eating on side only two penalties to me

He looked like he needed help from the official to draw that penalty. He didn't get it. I honestly believe if it was Austin on a 60 or 70 goal pace, he gets that call all day long. Oh, yeah? Now, I think, don't look at me for help is what the officials, I think, treat Austin Matthews now. Yeah, I don't don't look at me for help is what the officials I think treat Austin Matthews now Yeah, I don't know he it he's not he's not he's not getting the benefit of anything. Yeah

Yeah, it's all gone not his way and which is funny cuz he's and whatever He's got all that we fans have and the people keep texting me. Maybe it'll flip this time Yeah, literally all I was like hey Maybe they suck in the regular season as soon as the playoffs are good now. That's all anyone's clicking. Well, it is funny because- We should go by the way. Everyone has said that all year long,

including yourself and yourself this time, like who cares? They go on hot streaks, they go, well, let's see it in playoffs. Well, that's a great point. Don't ask us, let's ask a two-time Stanley Cup champion, Craig Simpson is up next. We'll ask him, is it as simple to flick the switch

going into the playoffs? When we return to Real Kipper and Born. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. ["Same Time, Same Time, Same Time"]

Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprio's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. All right, let's go to a guy who's been along every stretch of the way for the Toronto Maple Leafs, along every leaf Fan and Sammy McKee watching every minute every time the Leafs have stepped on the ice. Let's welcome in Craig Simpson simmer How's it going? Great. How are you guys doing? We're good. We just have finished a conversation before we went to break Yeah, there's we still got some hockey to go here correct Yeah, Sammy tells me there might be some in Leafland who just say hey just get to the playoffs and hopefully they

They hit the switch here That is it as easy as that sometimes Well, it can be I mean, I think you're always go through the ups and downs of the season and You know the highs and lows and try to keep perspective on what you are as a team. I know for Sammy as a fan, there's the hard part because look at the ups and downs in the roller coaster ride that it's been. You win three, you lose three, win five, you lose three. So there hasn't really been a progression. I heard you guys talking about, I think it was Justin who's saying,

you know, you almost don't want to be playing at your ultimate best right now. There's still 16 games to go. And do you want to waste them? To me, I get a lot of feeling of that. You know, I don't think any team in the league right now is really pushing all that hard to be, let's say the president's trophy winner. They've seen too far in the past the journey to get to that, which means nothing at the end of the day. A lot of times you've wasted a lot of good things and bang, you get turfed out early. So there is a mindset that as a player too, Kip, you're in that grinding out days where you go, I'm focused on trying to be ready for the playoffs. I don't know. I've been that

grinding out days where you go. I'm focused on trying to be ready for the playoffs, so I'm going to get my mind and body, which I think is okay. It's okay to have some, you know, imperfections in your game. It almost gives the coaches a

chance to pick you apart a little bit and to keep reminding and working on things. The problem is, though, when you go through these little stretches that all of a sudden become what now, you know, a six, seven game stretch with just one win. And now you look at the standings and you go like that. That's what hit me on Saturday was Ottawa wins that game. They're four points behind you. You know, all of a sudden you might be in a wild card spot, which you didn't have in your mind. So I do think this is a key week and a key time to sort of snap yourself back into, into shape and, and make sure you get the details of your game going back

again, because it can, you know, those four losses in the last five games can turn the six, seven pretty quickly. Now it's a different game and it's a whole different feel the way you feel as a player going into the playoffs to try to prepare to play the best when you have to then. Sir, you've been along with these versions of Leafs team the whole way. What do you feel is different about this team this year than some of the previous versions that have headed into the playoffs with high hopes? than some of the previous versions that have headed into the playoffs with high hopes? Well, that's a good question. I just think they've been tested in different ways. You know, even last year's team, this year's team has one more win, 39 in 66 games. Last year they had 38. They had nine overtime losses last year, so they had a few more points but it's kind of been the same hasn't it we've said early on it it's not a whole lot of difference I think the difference this year with the players and in the mindset is I heard

you saying before you got a bunch of guys that aren't having career years you know you had last season where you had a career year from from Matthew you had a career year from Maher you had a career year from Meier, you had a career year from Nylander, you know all your big guys so you're going in and you've been pushing for some individual milestones. I think that has been a something that in the back of even the player's mind you know I've said for a while here for Matthews you're going you're not worried about goals so much right now. You know, that the season has kind of gotten away from you that way.

I think you're focused on, and I've always felt this, you know, a refresher once the playoffs start. And so you can set the reset button. What do you got in the tank now play when well, when it matters the most. I said to you guys after the game on Saturday, you know, I just haven't seen a real identity of this team yet. You know, the North-South stuff that Craig talks about, I don't see it all that often in the games and it doesn't necessarily take shape in the way that they're

playing or how they're able to take control. I understand the concept of how you want to play and you want to play a little better. To to me defensively is going to be really important, but you have to have that ability to break a game open. You have to have that ability to change a game. And I think that's probably the only real thing that would concern me lately is the fact that they've been giving up the leads, even when they've had a good start.

Like, thank goodness they got the points out of Utah, because that was a great start, and a three-nothing lead, and a tough building building and boom, you don't get anything out of that and it changes things. So, you know, the game in Colorado is we have Colorado on Wednesday, the ozone possession time in that game was plus five oh four for Colorado over Toronto. And you know, when you look at the difference of this team, to me, I didn't mind them being a possession team. I thought that that kind of got the rhythm

of their game going. And I do think there's an element of that that they're missing a little bit. And that to me will be the most interesting. I like the fact that you can go into the playoffs with maybe a different mindset that you know the game changes and you know how to play that game maybe better you know how to check you know how to forecheck and you can do it when it matters the

most but i think that's why at times you've seen the ups and downs from this team offensively you're listening you're listening to Toronto Maple Leaf and Hockey Night in Canada analyst Craig Simpson so Simmer you mentioned working on things you just mentioned moments ago, the their own zone, where would you if you're Craig Berube starting tonight, prioritize where the focus needs to be if you only had one, maybe two things starting tonight? Well, I'd start with a little bit of just the simple thing that you can always begin with is I want to see a desperate team.

I haven't really seen that for a while and that kind of stuck out to me. I didn't think as Justin said, I didn't think they played badly against Ottawa, which stuck out to me was Ottawa looked like a hungrier team. Ottawa looked like a jump in and get in on the four check and win those little puck battles. I didn't get a sense of, man, this is an important game against a rival, you know. So you know that you got a Calgary team coming in that's trying desperately to stay in the playoff race. To me, Kipper, you know, you have to manage emotions in this game. And I think some of those are sort of dipping a little bit. I'd want to look at my team and say,

show me that you can just take control of the game, get out there and be the harder team to play against, have desperation in your game. And then I do think the structure of their game and their D zone, like get, I think I heard you earlier talking about too much separation between the D and forwards. That's creating some turnovers.

Have some structure in your own zone so that you can come up with speed, that you can't even chip and chase and get after it because you're coming in unison, you're not getting trapped in your own zone. You know, come playoff, I can't play and execute along the boards in your own end That's gonna be where teams get you in trouble

so I'd be looking for two simple things like that and I know it's the hardest thing at times to create is that emotion and it's not necessarily a big rival in Calgary But trust me. I've watched Calgary a lot lately They're gonna be a hungry team and you better come out and be able to match their intensity. Craig, Craig, is it fair to point right at Austin Matthews and say it starts with you with a sense of urgency or whatever else emotion you need to draw? Yeah, I think you're always looking to your leadership group and let's face it in the games where say in the past, he could inspire or bring everybody up to a level

with oh man is he dangerous oh wow you know the quick shots and scoring that hasn't been happening and you could debate why or how and the reasons for that so you don't get that same natural jump from having Matthews on the ice where you go oh I got let's follow more subtle things for him in his game. I don't think he's played poorly, but it hasn't had that kind of impact. So yeah, I do think this is one of those stretches. Nick, you're on game three of a four game home stand. It's been, you know, two losses in a row against divisional guys. This is your one-pant chance that you say, okay losses in a row against divisional guys. This is your one-pant chance that you say, okay, can he jump up and be maybe the guy that inspires guys to take the game to a different level?

Do you think there's anything to the concerns about energy levels, like particularly the Stars who did the Four Nations thing and travel in the season? I know all teams go through it, but for some reason the Leafs seem to be having a hard time with it. Well, I think there is. I think the four nations, no question. You've seen it with a number of guys along, around the league. You know, but this is the ups and downs of a year. I just think that, you know,

managing yourself emotionally, physically, is a real journey throughout the whole course of the season. And I think some guys, you know, for whatever reason at times just find they can't get themselves out of a funk. They look at what the schedule is there. I know everyone's talked about the back to back games of their 16 games. Eight of those games are back to backers, right? They've got four more back-to-backs, not huge travel. But if I'm looking ahead there too, that's where it does the onus is you're not going to be practicing very much. You're going

to be resting is probably as big a weapon. And that's a challenge for Borubi too. When you're tinkering and you're not feeling good about the structure of your game, this is the time of year that it becomes a lot more difficult to try to work on it when you're tinkering and you're not feeling good about the structure of your game, this is the time of year that it becomes a lot more difficult to try to work on it when you're trying to manage guys energy too. So as you know, guys, you want to drop the puck to start the playoffs and you want everybody to be working at their top level. I think I told you before, like Kevin Lowe, when I, my rookie year in Edmonton started in January, February, saying, come on, we're going to go work out extra before practice to get

ourselves and our bodies prepared for playoffs. You know, there's the foresight of going, this is going to be a long journey. So we got to start banking some workouts and banking things now. That was so long ago because you didn't have the trainers that you do now, but that's the mindset of going, this is the time now that you might have some games that you're not playing well. But if you don't go into playoffs thinking that it could be a 24 or 25 game long journey, you're probably not going to make it past five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 games because

your mind's not ready to put in the effort to work that that level for that long. We'll be looking for that sense of urgency as early as 736 tonight Toronto and Calgary. Simmer great job as always really appreciate it when you do find time for us man thanks for doing this. All right take care guys. See ya. That is Craig Simpson, two-time Stanley Cup champion hockey night in Canada. Fantastic stuff. Yeah, I mean no one watches this team closer and do you feel any better about the Leafs after his thoughts on? I've Come to the conclusion covering this team

especially in these years of prime everybody that it's They're never as good as you think they are and they're never as bad. So somewhere in the middle lies the truth. We will see better hockey from them. They will be better. If they don't get better, they're gonna miss the playoffs. So hopefully they get a little better.

It does feel like I've kind of forced myself to, you know, in past years, I have felt like they carried play and had potential to be one of the best teams in the league. Like when they lost to Boston last year, they controlled a lot of that series. And, you know, I thought were the better team. They lost a series to Tampa where they were the better team. So good last year. Yeah. You know, there's times where I felt like, God, you know, that's pretty good team. They've got a bad break. I feel like I have had to resign myself to like, this is like the ninth best team in the league, and they're going to need to get red hot with good goaltending if you want

to run. Like, it doesn't feel like if everything breaks as it should, they're going to win. It feels like, God, they're going to need some help. I love what Simer said there about just what he would be talking about if he was Borube. Just show me some urgency. Like did he say an urgency a hundred times today after the game at practice today? Show me you can take over a game. Let's hear that clip. We actually have Borube talking about addressing a lack of urgency in clip five. Clip five, yep. Yeah this morning I think you know we went over a few things where we're at as a team

and talked about some urgency that we need a little bit. We need more obviously throughout the game, not when it's desperate time. I think last game, I thought that, I would talked about it, that Ottawa was a little more hungry than us early on in that game We're gonna get that battle level and that urgency level up guys

understand that they're not very happy right now, which is a good thing and you know, so That's really the message the message too is like we're right there I mean, you know, we've got two games in hand here, we're gonna take care of our business and start with tonight's game only and focus on that and go from there. They're right there. Are they? Yeah.

We're gonna learn a little bit more tonight. You think it's a certified must win? I am. I'm betting on the Maplers tonight. It just feels like they gotta have one. They gotta have one. 60 minutes. They're a good team. They're at home. It's a please win. They got they need one. Must win. Must win certified must win. Okay. We're gonna take a quick break here. And when we return, a coach who is a runaway for the Jack Adams Coach of the Year, what do you think?

Definitely. Pretty close. Pretty close. All right. We've got Spencer Carberry coming up next. We'll talk a little OV and the Washington Capitals on the national hour when we return to real kipper and born.