Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Hopping off the Rails

Episode Date: October 13, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with their sports superstitions in honour of Friday the 13th. They look ahead to tomorrow's game where the Leafs host the Minnesota Wild, Sheldon Keefe's tentative support for Ilya Samsonov as the starter, Ryan Reaves comments about fighting and if he's looking to drop the gloves in back-to-back games. They are joined by former NHL president, GM and coach Doug MacLean (30:41) for the first official Off-The-Rails Friday of the season! He shares his thoughts on what the Leafs' identity will be this season, the team's defensive flaws and the Oilers' championship prospects.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Yes, we are live real kipper and born sports net 590 sports at 360 and sports net plus from four to six nick caprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo jen roelich same cast and character on a friday our first official Off the Rails Friday. You don't count the last one? What did we do on Friday? We weren't in the studio. No one listened. That doesn't count.

That was a weird one. Why do we do that? Get all the summer takes off our chest. So that means only one thing. Doug McClain will join us. So there's a rumor we'll see Doug today. For those watching on Sportsnet 360, you will see him. You want to take bets on how fast Doug McClain tells us

how well his book is selling or where it ranks on the book charts and all that? Give me an over-under on seven seconds. Hard under. Under, but I consider that fair payment for what we've paid him over the years. Give me an over-under on seven seconds. Oh, hard under. Under, but I consider that fair payment for what we've paid him over the years to be on the show, so he's allowed to plug a couple of things. All right, and in the second hour on our national show,

we'll welcome in Billy Guerin. You just have him as well, general manager, which is true, Sammy, it's true, but, you know, when a man... In the lineup, on the other side, if you flip it over, Kipper, it says, Bill Guerin, former NHLer, 1,263 games, 429 goals, 427 assists. Yeah, it's all good. An absolute mutant on the ice.

Yeah, it's all good. But you didn't add president of hockey ops. You got a promotion this summer right this summer yeah i was on the golf course buddy i don't know what to tell you sorry so he got uh what doug mclean describes as um that that buffer job uh-huh that uh eventually you end up hiring a general manager but it's a fake general manager, and you're still really the general manager. Now, he has the GM title now,

but you really want to put a guy there that you can point the finger at if you need to. It's like being a tenured professor in a way. You can't get fired. You're making the decisions. So sure, when you decide you need a change, you hire someone to be you and keep being you. If it isn't enough that it's off the rails friday for us it's also friday the 13th yeah are you guys uh superstitious yes you are

very what do you mean yes and very well i think one of my like pillar takes as a sports fan if you're not superstitious you're not like a real fan really yeah like i think especially so are we talking same underwear if the leafs are up in a series no more i don't think of it as much in hockey but definitely baseball is a very superstitious sport but yeah i have little there's nothing more self-absorbed than like all i got off the couch and then the team started to win or lose. So I watched the games. You're pissing off the people that love you. Like this is a core belief with sports fandom is that, you know, for example, okay. Here's what you have wrong.

These people know it's stupid. It's okay that they know it. They still do it. They're aware it's dumb. But like during the 2015 playoffs, we watched the bad flip at a really good bar, J.D. Bunkus and myself. And then we went to the wild card game the next year, and we went to that bar, we went to the place that we sat for that

game, and we went and we had a beer in that spot because we thought it would bring good luck, and they happened to win the game on a walk-off. So they did have good luck. There are millions of households that hold somebody in that room accountable on what's going on. I still blame my mom for 2014 when they collapsed because she called me when they were up 4-1.

So it was her fault. 100%. People booked flights to New York. I was like, why would you call me? That was my exact response. That's the type of energy we're talking about. Yeah, I just think there's a greater me out there. A drive to the rink, a meal that you ate.

I had a routine, but that's part of like a swing, you know, like your pre-shot routine where you have a trigger to get you in the right frame to play. I think. I'm with you, and I'm not superstitious, but every once in a while I say, why take the chance? So, you know, listen, I've been, I know the logical thing, and I've said the logical thing.

I can't say I don't have moments where I'm like, okay, maybe I should. I just think you should do everything that helps you in your power to put yourself in the right mindset. Like I stopped going to a certain establishment that I used to love to watch big games because every time I went to a game there, to watch a game, my team lost. So I was like 0-5 at that bar. Some bar is just doing everything right to attract customers.

Can't keep its clients out. Why would I go back? It wasn't just Leafs. I went for World Juniors, Leafs, Jays, Raps. They lost every game right there. Hey, today we're going to take text at the end of the show. Text 590-590. We'd love to get your opinion on this which is you know get a load of sammy

over here is all i have to say that's that's a little off the rails fitting for a friday i love superstitious you know the other uh and i don't know where you guys want to fit this in the next two hours but this conversation uh about media in locker rooms or dressing rooms and this is uh based on uh the playoffs in baseball with Bryce Harper, correct, Sammy? Yeah, I watched a little bit of the Sabres and Rangers last night, but I watched mostly Phillies and Braves. Yeah, there's a big controversy between what's public domain

and what's said in the clubhouse. And there was somebody that might have said, attaboy, Harper, after he made a mistake in game two. It was reported. People are taking heat for it. There's a conversation on both sides. I just just thought it's pretty fascinating conversation across all sports both you guys been in locker rooms very relevant for hockey for sure i don't know if we want to have that now we're doing we'll we'll take that into the second hour okay boy um i would do a lot of dirty unforgivable things to have the phillies roster be the jays roster

yeah it's pretty fun team just they got that dog in them. So that and Bill Guerin in the second hour, and of course the Toronto Maple Leafs are facing Bill Guerin's Minnesota Wild, who are coming off a pretty good win, albeit on the backs of their goaltender in a 2-0 win last night. The Toronto Maple Leafs are getting ready to face that Minnesota wild team.

And we started a conversation coming off of their win against the Montreal Canadians. So let's just pick it up where we left it off with Samsonov. And do you go with the superstition that he won? So play Saturday night. That is a relevant question. Do you believe in roster decisions also being superstitious?

No. Okay. Well, I don't change a winning lineup, and I think that's what happened. It happened last year during the playoffs when Bunting didn't get back in after they won the game and then they lost the next one.

We can go down a long road on changing the lineup from stars or... Do you believe in don't change a lineup, win or lose? Or sorry, win and just you can't change it? No. Put your best players in the lineup. Yes. But I also believe that if someone contributed to that

and there's a good energy around certain players, you don't pull them out. Yeah. And sometimes it falls into the don't fix what ain't broken right now you know maybe this is my own experience as a ahl healthy scratch but you know spending time in the press box and knowing that the guy that you're trying to get in above playing poorly but the team is winning so they don't want to change the lineup to me was always so infuriating it was like what are we doing here is this you know is this superstition are we trying to dress the best

lineups and seeing that happen over the years has been like it's an old hockey mentality you don't change the lineup and that just to me never worked never made sense you want to go to a kipper's clipper here on uh the goaltending plan going into this weekend absolutely and it was our own luke fox that asked the question one that we've been talking about on the show to start the year, so it's a good one to start with. All right, this is clip two on the goaltending plan. Not necessarily, no. I'm going to say I expect it to be pretty similar to last year,

which, you know, as we know, was broken up a lot with injuries to both our goalies, but, you know, the schedule being what it is, you have to use both guys, and we will. But we'll look at the schedule and kind of take it, we'll make a plan to take it a day at a time as we go through it. Yeah, of course, because it's Friday and we haven't started that plan yet. No. But we'll let you know as soon as we make that plan. Yeah.

We're going to make a plan, but take it day at a time okay what is that what are we reading into sheldon keith with that comment because that is just avoiding any type of commitment to samson off that's what i got out of that clip really yes yeah what would be the point in avoiding that commitment at this point of the season? How about having a lousy training camp? And how about not being ready to start the season at home against a team we expect to not make the playoffs? How about that as a reason? Mid.

You know, I wonder if there is not some little piece of Sheldon Keefe that was tired of holding his tongue in past years about guys and not being critical. He went out there last year, and if anyone played bad, he went out there and defended them to the end of the earth. And I'm curious this season if maybe we'll see stuff like this where it's like, what am I going to hand it to Samsonov for? What is the point in that? Why not let him know?

We don't know. Maybe this is exactly what you're talking about, and it's not necessarily what you said but it's what you're not saying right is that we need we're looking for more he needs to earn it you know for us to say it's just going to be his so they're going to go with him tomorrow by the way yeah it's a it's confirmed starter oh it is okay samsonov's already confirmed starter. Confirmed starter tomorrow night. But he won't give it the vote of confidence when he was asked. Game two. I love it. To me, if he's confident, he goes, well, I mean, Samsonov's our starter.

He's our starting goalie. We're going to treat him like a starting goalie. I'll tell you, he did that for Matt Murray last year this time. 100% he did. Okay. It was not even questioned. And I fully supported it last season because one guy won Stanley Cups, and I don't care if it was like five years ago. He'd been there.

And the other guy was a former first-round that the washington capitals didn't even qualify to retain his rights they actually walked him out the door and said we're not interested anymore so that made sense yeah uh you know it is a good you know i like we talked earlier about it being a meritocracy and how fraser minton just kept playing himself into lineups i'd like to see the goalie position work like that this year not necessarily winning you're in because samsonov gave up five goals and wasn't very good the other night but i think you give him the leash early get a couple of games whatever and at a certain point maybe it's November, whoever's playing well is going to play. If this thing bounces back and forth... What are they going to do if Samsonov's not a starter?

That's exactly. In theory, it sounds like it's competitive and it's a good thing, what you just mentioned. But if we're having these types of conversations in December or January, there won't be enough time for Samsonov or even Wall to convince people that you're the guy that's now going to lead this team to a Stanley Cup this season. Here's the problem.

If Samsonov is not, so I have an article today on Sportsnet. It's about the what-ifs for the Leafs season. After one game, just what if? And one of the what-ifs is what if Samsonov is not the guy? There's no scenario to me. Let's say Joseph Wall is a 925 save percentage guy over 30-some games this year.

There's still no way to me they would say he's our starting goalie in playoffs. No disrespect to the person at all, just that he's a 23 year old rookie and like you're gonna hinge this whole leafs thing everything they've built on a guy who hasn't been there hasn't played in those games played in one game in the playoffs but like they're probably if samson is not the guy they're gonna end up getting another guy are they not well 25 by the way 25 yeah okay they would have to and hey martin jones may be their best goaltender in in training camp i mean he was in training camp you'll never think that he would be an answer like you'd be nuts to think that he would be weird though like jones has been

a guy in the league before he could be an answer no no i know i know he could be an answer for for stints and he can plug a hole maybe for a couple of weeks great for the kraken last year for like a month and then it kind of went sour and listen there's a long list of of serviceable nhl goaltenders including james reimer who's in det Detroit that can play that that window but give him the definitive you're our guy and it changes for these guys between the years you know the one of the worst things I think for a lot of teams is that they can point at the last two cup champions and go well it's Grubauer Grubauer won like he who is he and it's aiden hill you don't need a guy you just need someone who's okay and then you go back farther and it's vasilevsky vasilevsky mark andre flurry like it's i i'm concerned that teams think that

you know goaltending is the new running back in the nfl where you just kind of need one who can kind of do it where it probably deserves a little bit more respect as a position than that well if we think we're going to get philip uh gustafson coming off a shutout uh 40 plus 41 41 saves last night in their two nothing win it's a it's a pretty big challenge for samson off 200 feet away do you know how they got him sam what was the how do they end up with gustafson for talbot talbot they traded talbot to ottawa to get him right that was those are the two principles i Beat away. Do you know how they got him, Sam? How did they end up with Gustafson? For Talbot. Talbot. They traded Talbot to Ottawa to get him, right?

Those were the two principles. I can look up the exact trade, but yeah. So Ottawa moves on from Gustafson. Yeah. And then, you know, disaster in net, and they end up giving Corpus Allo all that money. Gustafson's been awesome since. You'd be hard-pressed to find a worse trade than that one for Ottawa and Pierre Dorian. Bad one.

Okay. And Minnesota just signed Gustafson to three years times. It was one for one. One for one, straight up. Disaster of a trade. The kid's 25 now, so they traded him at 23, and he had a good year under his belt too. For what, a 33-year-old, 34-year-old?

There's only upside for one team in this trade, and it's the guy that we're going to talk to in the next hour here, Bill Guerin. There's only upside for him. And Ottawa was, what, going all in? Like, they didn't want to... They think big picture with their young core that maybe this guy could have been

something long-term for them? Yeah. And it wasn't like he was an eighth-round pick. He was a second-round pick by the Penguins. Like, he had pedigree. You know, they gave up on him pretty early. Yeah, I think he had a 9-20. He had a good season before the year that wasn't good when they traded him.

2021, he was pretty good. Like, they played nine games. He had a 9-33. It's hard to really parse with nine games yet. But then the next year, he had 18 games. He was 8-92. They traded him. Yeah, he was in Belleville, 9-15 in Belleville. They traded him yeah he was in belleville 915 in belleville they traded him he was 931 last year in the nhl yeah in 39 games not

210 goals against whoopsies we'll uh we'll anticipate that goaltending matchup saturday night uh moving on heard a little bit more from ryan reeves today didn't we not by the way you guys know we're eventually getting replaced by him he's gonna have a podcast or something this guy loves to talk is there any is there any nhlers that have a podcast because every guy in every other sport has a podcast i know well the season's going on they have podcasts it's gonna be reeves listen that's just the magic of being a toronto maple leaf i can speak of it yeah i'm sure right you're like, hello, you're relevant now. You're literally... Run a few people over. Say a few words. Get yourself on TV.

Part of, I'm sure, his exit strategy is one of the number of reasons he wanted to sign for the Toronto Maple Leafs. But I think there's a reason why he's probably feeling pretty good today. There was a contribution. There was a contribution. There was a noticeable difference in what we've seen in the past few years and a different energy.

Yeah, great start. And, yeah, so you can see he's always a confident guy, but you can see why he's feeling himself a little bit today. So they asked him a few questions. Well, and, like, I didn't even put the clip in here because we've played a clip from Keefe about Reeves every day. And again, he was out.

He's like, I'm thrilled. Like he was like, I'm thrilled. Whatever that drop. That was him. He did another soliloquy about how much he loves Reeves. It just is the thing that is more damning to me

than it is positive is that they've just been how long that they haven't had a guy like that's like a big personality guy. Yeah. Well, they had Joe Thornt thornton yeah but it's a different type of thing like he's coming in here and it's coming pretty hot it's the same conversation you talk about with fourth liners taking their first liners right where he probably thought he was still the best player on the team it's a different energy but yeah yeah and listen i mean there's gonna be days when Austin Matthews, you know, Mitch Marner, Willie Tavares, they're like, God, do I have to talk to the same guys over and over again?

And, you know, I mean, in many ways, I said sometimes you got to be, you got to be a little careful that certain guys don't suck out too much of the oxygen in the dressing room, because that's something that's always watched amongst 20 guys who's getting the attention, who's not, especially in a market like this. But, hey, there's going to be some times when those type of players, the star players, will be happy to keep the flies off of them

and, you know, go talk to Ryan Reeves, right, today. It did bug me in the dressing room, though. Like the guy that constantly needed attention and needed to be heard. We know who they are in the room. Yeah, like it drove me nuts having guys like that. Like, all right, you're there, you're with everyone all the time. I mean, you're on the bus, you're in the hotel,

you're in the rink, you're practicing, you're doing video. And the one guy who just is always talking used to drive me crazy. So I'm sure guys will feel differently about Reeves. They should approach the pregame pre-show chats a little differently now, Bernie. This guy's constant. No, it's... So I wonder how, you know, if Reeves, you're right,

should maybe work his way into it. Doesn't sound like he is. We have a clip about he's actually, you know, controlling the music. He's dishing the pucks in warm-up. You want to go to that one or we want to talk about the one uh where he describes his uh fight in game one either of them are fine but whatever you start with the music just because you know i think it speaks to his personality start with getting jumped because all right i'm going in the order of importance okay okay that one is irrelevant i'll call it a throwaway clip. Yeah. Let's go to what mattered.

Let's do it. I mean, yeah. I don't like getting jumped. I don't know if I've ever really jumped anybody. If you want to fight, just ask me. I'm always around. You know where to find me.

I love this guy so much. Yeah. I also think it's a fair point. Listen, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I'm officially a Leaf fan drinking the Kool-Aid. I don't think Reeves got suckered in any way, shape, or form. Not suckered, but he's on a knee when he gets picked up by a tree of a man.

Listen, at the end of the day, if you're going in there to ram a guy in the glass like he did, what do you expect? You're Ryan Reeves. Even if he expects a fight, he's literally on a knee after the hit. The guy picks him up. Once you go in there with that intent, he knows what's coming. And I'm sorry, all bets are off out that.

Once you establish that you're going out there to try to hurt somebody out there i'm not saying jack i can't fight him there the only exception is you don't get suckered okay he did that's it yeah but if i want to get the first punch in and you're not ready uh so what i'm sorry okay don't really care. It's a fight. It's a fight. It's a fight. It's a fight. And he's allowed to say that it's not a fair fight.

Yeah. All day long. They didn't sit there and, you know, have a ref and touch gloves or anything. I mean, you started from the guys punching downhill. And we all know. You know how they say possession is ninth, tenth of the law? Yeah.

So is the first punch. Okay. Punch that. Go statisticians or analytic idiots. Go back and watch every fight in the history of the game and tell me who won the fight and who threw the first punch. Okay. I am not arguing it's best to throw the first punch to win the fight.

That's it. This is not a strategic i can appreciate what ryan reeves is saying but once you go in there and you're slamming people around uh you know you know it's eligible to be fought especially when you know who's on the ice and we teed up a few times including our exhibition game against trauma trail and what did elliot say right jack and reeves went not on if you're you didn't tell me reeves didn't know he was he was on the ice he knew he knew he knew and i love that reeves is able to talk about it now because they don't play till march yeah like i mean so

much anticipation all that but these guys can talk smack for the next five months till they play again montreal five months and reese was looking for it that whole shift like he squished somebody else earlier in that shift he was running around from the start of that shift i think there was one way it was ending and he probably knew that so yeah fair enough uh can we talk about a few takers uh uh saturday night for reeves oh they got marcus felino marcus felino i think that'll be a good has a good chance we'll go yeah i don't know it's back-to-back fights is he like a a goalie now can he do that back-to-back games fight is it a traveling road show like can you play hockey like i don't know that that one would be a good tilt. Last year, the fighting major leader was Delorier, maybe, with 11 or 12.

You just don't typically get a guy who fights 30 times in a season, so it can't be a nightly affair for this guy. Now, he came from Minnesota, too, so there might be some wink-wink, right? Maybe. Are you telling me you've ever fought anyone and it was not a real fight, but just kind of a fight so both of you have fought and the team goes way to go? First of all, if there had been one...

Actually, I'm fascinated by this question. If there had been one fight, just one I've ever been involved in that had that, I would have been in a lot more. Yeah, okay. So none of that. So, no. had that i would have been in a lot more yeah okay so none of that so no and the uh sometimes the one that the one i got goaded into big time was the first game that we played

scott stevens when he left washington to go to st louis he signed like a five million dollar contract uh because uh our team didn't want to pay him $1 million a year because they forecasted that no player will ever make $1 million a year in our game. Sounds like your analytics team struggled. Oopsie. I don't know.

I won't pin that on my buddy David Poyle, but maybe at the time the owner. Maybe the owner. Five sch mil then worth regardless 16 billion uh we're playing in st louis and scott stevens just running around and brian murray's just giving it to us about you know the the buds and you know your friend so i went out there and i i fought him yeah i fought him the and it was not like let me tell you something Scott Stevens how much bigger than you is he?

he would have ran over his grandmother to win he's also built like a brick oh no this guy like those eyes could go back as like slot machines at the casino he didn't fight a ton like he was physical and mean and all that

but like you know in those first early years you could go find a lot of video of him fighting and you know rick talk it and that type of uh you know i don't think at the time he was picking heavyweight fights but there was a good mixture of uh like heavy middleweights i didn't fight a ton in the minors but when i did it was always coach inspired like hey we're down six nothing but like if anyone wants to play that was an era where you you know two or three fights a game was the ordinary but yes to your point i did have to go out there and and fight on occasion to people that you know you just had a team did you resent your coaches when they kind of made you the guy to go do that? No. No. No.

That's just part of the job description. Yeah. So. Stevens cracked 200 penalty minutes five times. So I think he probably did fight back in the day. I'm just looking at his hockey DB here. Like, how is there enough ice time? He played. He had 61 points in 77 games in 283 penalties.

He played 40 minutes a night. Like, how is he out there enough? It's insane. Unbelievable. Look at Rick Talkitz penalty minutes. Oh, I 40 minutes a night? How is he out there enough? It's insane. Unbelievable. Look at Rick Talkett's penalty minutes. Oh, I know. Rick Talkett's Kevin Stevens, I think, had a couple of big years. We had some Those Pittsburgh team members, like Lemieux and Yager, it's like, those were

good teams of Stevens and Talkett. Talkett's hockey DB is just one of the most badass hockey DBs by far. It's just, it's a man's DB. That's for sure. Oh, yeah. All right, so listen, you've been waiting all day for this, and that's Ryan Reeves' discussion on the music. Yeah.

Do you want to play it? Yeah, let's play it for you, Sammy. Oh, for me? I do, yeah. Not right when I get to the locker room, but once it's time to get ready for the game, yeah, it's all me. Do you go to play this? Do you mix it up?

It's all hip-hop, yeah. We had a little bit of country going last game, and that got gassed pretty quickly. Yeah, you can't have that. Who's going to tell him no? He can't control the music. I think our guy, luke fox actually wrote a rap book yeah he did yeah like he's he's a rap aficionado really i know i mean his twitter

handle is luke fox jukebox yeah loves music he's written i think he wrote a book about ice tea if i'm not mistaken i think it's called like ice tea shot me in 11 rap stories or something to that effect he loves rap i can't even. Did not see that coming, did you? I can't do the visual of that. I can't see it. Well, next time we have him on, you can ask him. All right. You want to do a couple more clips?

I think we got Doug McClain coming in soon. Yeah, we should probably hit the break and get the Doug. Okay. All right. As we said, Off the Rails Friday, it starts with Doug McClain after the break. You're watching and listening to real Kipper and born. Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the Leafs,

Jays, Raptors, and the NFL. The JD bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back.

The TM Studio here at Sportsnet. You know what that stands for? What's Tim's last name? McAuliffe. Got it. You're a really smart, intelligent guy. No, I just wear glasses. You know who else wears glasses and I question how intelligent he is? I'm not going to guess.

I don't want to guess wrong. Our next guest. Did he go to the wrong link to join us? I'm. Or did you send him the wrong link? I don't send anyone any links. I'm not running the thing, so we're just figuring out. Oh, yeah, that's because you're a TV star right now.

I know. They put me in the studio. I am, after all, the producer of the television program or the radio program. out oh yeah that's because you're a tv star right now i know they put me in the studio i am after all the producer of the television program or the radio program so his boys are like he's a meme now and is like group chat and stuff like pics of him and stuff oh really but i don't really care about that i love it but yeah you know anything i can make the people happy so maybe you guys can talk and i'll produce here for a second okay no problem at all so i got to see you fight scott stevens so uh somebody sent you that our boy the sports beard on uh on twitter our guy that's awesome he pulled it up quick you got a couple of dirty

mitts into steven's face there that was good took off one of their best defensemen according to the commentator which was good and then he lassoed me i think and threw me to the iceator, which was good. And then he lassoed me, I think, and threw me to the ice. He seemed upset, Scott. Yeah. No, there's never a time when he's really not upset. Okay. He's just a constant, I say ball of hate for a guy like Pat Verbeek, but he was close to being a ball of hate.

Yeah. Where he's just always, like, got the, he played like he always had a chip on his shoulder. On his gigantic shoulders. He was never happy. Maybe that's why you win Stanley Cups and you're often regarded as one of the best defensemen in the history of the game. Would you not put him up there with,

when I talk about. In that era, he was perfect. When I talk about one of the best, I'm talking about, like, you know, a five tool guy that can do so much out there. And one of them was intimidating and scare people that, you know, if you're not careful, you know, i.e. Lindros, that he can hurt you.

All right. All right, let's welcome him in. Promised off the rails friday former nhl president gm head coach blah blah blah but this is the important one author of draft day how hockey teams pick winners or get left behind there he is and he gets a and you actually we got the book on screen how's that? You know what? I got to tell you, it looks pretty good. I got to read it someday.

Was Scott Morrison that good that he just needed you to put your name on it? Scott Morrison was very good. I think he's getting way too much credit. Which does not sit with you at all. Well, no, no. You know what? We had a great time doing the book. We really did. And he's the perfect guy. You know, he's got he's he's done so many of them. And this was this was it was a ton of work. It was three years putting this together, and both of us worked pretty hard at it.

So it was fun. So you leave PEI, and you're now down in Florida where no one cares about you. Well, actually, I'm in Connecticut. I played golf today at a beautiful Ridgeway Country Club in Danbury, Connecticut. So we're on our way to Florida, but I got a chance to play today and it was kind of nice. Just finished a little game

of pickleball. Just trying to relax on the trip. Yoga next. You've got full days. It sounds like a pretty good life. I'm hoping you had time to catch the Toronto Maple Leafs opening game of the season. We have you on all year long. We talk about the Leafs all the time.

I would love to get your initial take on what you saw out of the Maple Leafs to start their season. Well, I think it's more of the same a little bit in that they can score and they've got to figure out if they're going to become a team that defends. And, you know, goaltending is is i think is still a problem and i still think their blue line is a problem um so you know and and their cap is a problem so um you know it's great to be that great offensive team and i you know i know they're tough guys you know got involved a little bit but i i liked Reeves' comment today, you know,

if you're going to fight, don't jump me, which I didn't, you know, I don't blame him for that. I thought it was a bit of a jump in. But anyway, I think, you know, them and Edmonton and these teams, I watched Florida play last night against Philly, and we saw unbelievable goaltending in that game. Merzlikens and Carter Hart were outstanding. So I think

the games that have been a little tough to watch have been goaltending weakness and defensive lapses and both teams have got to figure that out. You know, Mac, Brad Tree Living is new. He comes this summer and

obviously as a general manager, you want to see with your own eyes what you have. But he's been around long enough, but he would know the principles on his blue line very well because he's either scouted in the past or he's watched him compete against his team in Calgary. So he must have had some preconceived notion of what the Leafs were on a blue line.

Is there a chance that, you know, some of these guys can win him over to the point where they aren't what he thought they are, or they are what he thought they are? You know, I don't know. I don't want to speak for brad but how would he not and his staff not know what they are when we've been talking about it for a long time and and i i go back to what we talked about a couple of years ago and that is they've got to move somebody from up front and acquire a top two, a number two, at least a number three defenseman.

And maybe better than that. And we all know who we're talking about. Nylander's been one of their best players in the playoffs last year, full marks him. But guys, somebody's got to go off the up front grouping to be able to contend for a Stanley Cup. I mean, it's just not going to work. And we were at game two and we're talking about, or at least I'm talking about. So, you know, they can bring in all the guys they want. But if they don't fix the blue line, they don't have a number one blue liner.

Who wins the cup without a number one blue line? Nobody does. Unless it's Carolina when they fluked it. Yeah, fluked it. It is extremely uncommon. There's no doubt about that. We've been talking about young guys on this show because they got Fraser Minton in the lineup at 19 years old.

Joseph Wolves, their backup goaltender, who they may have to go to if Samsonov's not looking good. Where do you stand on having these guys involved for them right now on a team with cup aspirations? Well, you know what? I know I hate to go back to the old days, but, you know, we

had Joe Banoski as a 19 year old, Rhett Werner as a 19 year old, Nita Meyer as 21-year-olds, and they're real important players on our team. And they were guys that played with bite and they were physical presence, all of them. So I don't have a problem with youth. I have a problem with lack of talent.

And that's what is happening right now on their blue line. From watching all last year and essentially the same blue line back again. And, you know, Klingberg, okay. He was great three years ago. So we've got to see an improvement back there. And again, I'm not sold on Samsonov. I'm not. So it's the same old same old for me and look i know they had a good first round and uh i just think brad has got to

make a big deal just big deal doug just to follow up on on jb uh just your overall feelings and thoughts about carrying a 19 year old uh fraser minton comes in and certainly has shown a lot of poise uh high iq for being in the right places at the right time anyone in particularly uh in particular that you you you can kind of draw whether it was in Detroit or Florida or Columbus that can come in and and really hold the wow factor at age 18 or 19 and what is the danger and what is the danger of of not holding on to somebody the game has changed where kids can now come in and play there's no doubt about that we see it all over the league but when you want when you want to win a championship i think it'll be a challenge for the kid to keep up i mean there's excitement there's you know everything's a little bit slower right

now it's gonna look the pre-season's one thing the regular season goes up 25 and then when you get to the 20 game mark it's going up another level and i think sometimes that's when the kids really start to scramble but hey he's a good prospect you'll like lots of things about him but this is a team that better advance and i hate to say it in game one and two already but that's all it's about it's all about building towards that april when it really really counts all right doug i want to ask you about the general manager position and i don't want to paint these guys in the wrong light but like tree living seems like a great guy everyone likes tree living everyone in the nhl seems to have his number they say nice things about him whatever dubas's reputation here in toronto is smart guy analytics saw things really well you know what maybe people didn't weren't as open to working with him what's more important in

that role as a gm to be a great guy that people like in a facilitator or someone who's really smart obviously you want the best of both worlds but do you not see the contrast in the types of GMs that they've had here? I mean, there's a big contrast in the types. But, you know, Kyle Dubas, you know, was a good guy. Yeah. A nice guy. And a smart guy. Tree has been around a long time.

But they both won the same amount. And when you're a GM, there's only one thing that happens, and that's you have to win or you don't last. You know, he left Calgary. I don't know what happened there, but he didn't win there. He had good teams. He did a nice job, but he didn't win. And in Toronto, he's got to win.

He's got to win, and he's got to win quick with this group because each year the window closes a little bit more. So, you know, to me, I like the fact about Trey Lovine that he's not afraid to make big deals. He's not afraid to make them. And I think if he's going to win in Toronto, he's got to make a really big deal and fix the problem that's been there for three or four years

i'm sure he he looked already and uh until we see the cap go up significantly in the next few years mac uh does he are the leafs so desperate this year to win that you almost have to make a trade for the sake of making a trade if it's not there? Can you envision a team that stays intact like this one? What you do is you look at who won the Stanley Cup the year before. GMs do that. It's an automatic. As soon as the season's over, you take Vegas and you break Vegas down. How did they win? or the year before whoever

is the winner you break it down and you try to say okay how do we compare to that team that was able to go through a serious the series they went through and if you break down the las vegas team and you say put vegas's defense against the Toronto Maple Leafs' defense. And tell me what you have. An unfair fight? Yeah. It's an unfair fight. And you look at the teams that are winning Stanley Cups in the last number of years,

and you tell me how Toronto compare their blue line to those championship teams. Not even close. Look at St. Louis, even when they won the Cup a number of years ago. Why did they win the Cup? I mean, look at their blue line. Colton Parasenko turned himself into the best shutdown guy. Yeah, plus their defense was pretty good, you know. Yeah, no, that makes a huge difference. You know.

What did I say? It was a cross between Tarasenko and Parasenko. It was a Parasenko. Oh, my gosh. That was horrible. Tarasenko. I wasko. It was a Parasenko. Oh, my gosh. That was horrible. Parasenko. I was wondering who the hell you were talking about. Yeah.

I pulled a Doug McClain there. As an author, I speak much clearer now. I have a James Patterson type of paragraph. I mean, I've got that Patterson sort of coolness now, you know, smoking jacket and a cigar to do these interviews. So we've been talking about something totally unimportant on their show. And Kipper keeps killing Sammy and I, because we're talking about the change in the goal song and Ryan Reeves is

changing the music in the dressing room. And who cares? Well, listen, you were involved in operations in Columbus, right? You had the input. Oh, my God. And does it not matter? His biggest contribution in 10 years in Columbus was Stinger. The mascot.

That was the initial mascot. Or the cannon. The phallic cannon. Yeah, like, give me a break. Tree Living has never gone through what I went through when the night before the home opener in franchise history, the mascot resigned because he couldn't stand the pressure. That's the pressure.

That's the pressure. And I had to phone the chiller and tell them, I need somebody that can put this damn costume on and skate around the ice. That's pressure. He knew that nobody recognized him, right? Exactly. Anyway. Music?

No, you didn't touch the music? Oh, my God. I mean... It was front page news in Toronto, not a joke. Yeah, that's a problem. I mean, look, put Taylor Swift on if you want. Let it go. She's the big star.

You know, whatever it is. I've just had about enough of her. Yeah. That's Dion. Dion, when he became captain, took over control of the music, and it seemed to be – Berkey was happy with it. So I don't know. I never really thought about the music when I was a GM.

It never entered my mind about the music or the goal songs. What entered my mind is we couldn't win many games. That's what entered my mind. Needed more Holland Oats. Hey, I got to ask you, your good buddy, Ken Holland, so many people picked the Edmonton Oilers to win the Stanley Cup on Sportsnet.ca. And what would be going through his mind

after that shellacking to Vancouver? Well, you know what? I think they feel they've got a really good team there. I think they feel better about their blue line. There's no denying the grouping up front. The goaltending is an issue. Look, I thought they deserved to beat Vegas last year in that series. I really did.

They played real well. If it wasn't for the nurse problem there, they probably would have won that series. So to me, Kenny's been around long enough, and I think he feels pretty comfortable with his group right now. And I know Vancouver won game. Big deal. I mean, it's like Rimmer. By the way, did you see rimmer's resignation letter no no he wrote an essay yesterday announcing that he this is his last season

jeff rimmer let's just be clear here uh the play-by-play announcer for columbus is jeff rimmer yeah and he's he's this is his last season. He's stepping down and he wrote an essay and it was longer than the U.S. United States Constitution. Were you mentioned? Of course

I was and I talked him into coming to Columbus. I talked him into coming to Columbus. The truth is he was whining that the Panthers weren't paying him during the lockout and he wanted to come because I'd pay him. That's why he came. But anyway, he's done after this year and it's big. I think he did it because he's trying to get in the Hall of Fame.

You know, that media wing of the Hall of Fame. Yeah, the foster. Yeah, I think that's where... Who doesn't love a victory lap on the way out? Doug, you deserve a victory lap. We'll give you one. You tell us when it's time for the victory lap. I'm just joking.

Are you in your RV in Connecticut? No, no. Where's the RV? No. Where's the RV? No, I sold the RV. No, you did not. To pay for the Porsche? 37,000 miles in three summers. And, you know, we've got a plan now. We're going to fly out to California

and rent one and do the coast. Because now that I know how everything works on them, like the septic system and the water system and the electrical system, we can rent one out. So that's what we're going to do. We're just here. Jill and I are trailing each other on the highway.

All right. Okay. Let the dog out, eh? Whatever is yapping behind you. Chihuahua's at your feet there. How is the new show going? You're four to six. Well, it was fine up until maybe 15 minutes ago.

I listened to the other network the other day. I think things are going to be really good for you guys. All right. Rating and review by Doug McClain. Hey, thanks for doing this, Mac. Safe travels. Thanks, Mac. Take care, guys.

Usually it's Mac who throws it off the rails, but I threw a curveball with you with the Parasenko. By the way, whose house is Mack in in Connecticut? Junior Savano's house? No. He's got friends everywhere, that guy. He's got a shack in Florida, one in PEI. Can I tell you this quick story?

Stinger story. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. I thought he was going to tell us he threw it on for opening night. I was waiting for that. So, I'm not the only one that mixes names. Mike Keenan, one game, had Mike Gartner and Mike Hartman.

Oh. And he calls up on the next shift. Gartman? Messier. Yeah. Messier, Graves, and Gartman. And he says it twice. And that's exactly what happened. Yeah, Messier, Graves, and Gartman. He says it twice.

And that's exactly what happened. So now Mike Hartman, who hadn't had a shift the whole game, is super excited, right? But he's like, he looks at Garts and he's like, did you hear what I heard? I'm Garts, I'm going, we know who it was. No. I scored 700. Garts had had it up who it was. No. I scored 700.

Garth had had it up to here with Keenan. Oh, yeah. So he was like, the first thing he does is just roll his eyes. And to his credit, he says, hey, Mike, go. He did, eh? Yes. And Mike Hartman's super excited now. And he looks at me. He goes, what do you think?

I said, go. You got a 50- chance he stands up puts one leg over the boards and keenan with two arms goes where the hell do you think you're going sit down that's great yeah that's really that's it good call for your fur gardener letting him go though yeah what a teammate Yep. Speaking of Tarasenko and Ottawa. Well, they're not happy in Ottawa with him, eh?

Five million bucks. Five million bucks. I want to pick up this conversation in the National Hour, okay? All right. They hired a rather important alumni today too.

Alfie. Yeah. Daniel Alperson. Okay. That and so much more as we open it up nationally on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Stick around.