Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Hurt Feelings and Offseason Plans

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee check in on the first-ever Maple Leafs Fan Day. They discuss the latest on Auston Matthews' status as he looks set for surgery, and recent reports that the Blackhawks, Ducks, Habs, Devils and Mammoth were making calls on Matthew Knies at the trade deadline. Later, Sportsnet's Luke Fox stops by (19:09) to weigh in on the Knies conversation, the team's path to a bottom-five finish, and whether we could see Dennis Hildeby down the stretch. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam react to the Leafs signing Vinny Borgesi and Brandon Buhr, discuss the reports that the Leafs were in on Patrik Laine at the deadline, and more. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Let's get her going here. Live on Sportsnet 360, 590 the fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And when you can't catch us live, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. YouTube. Me too? Yep. We welcome you in to our Montreal Canadian edition of this show.

Oh, my God. How can, like, tough week. First of all, I swear to God. I didn't do this on purpose. I'm watching. None of us focus until the micrower comes on. I'm watching Vanderbilt right now play McChesey. And then out of the corner of my eye,

I see the blue blonde rouge of the Montreal Canadians. Sammy, you cannot go into a Leaf Hour edition with a Montreal Canadian jersey hanging in the background. Did we have that up yesterday? I don't know. He's slipping. Today is Leaf's fan day. And so we've got a beautiful JVR sweater going up.

Sorry, I mean, of all the jerseys to leave up there, especially insulting. Yeah, I think it was the fan hockey show had it up. So I don't know who they were talking to, but they had to have the Habs jersey up today. I did participate today in the first ever leaf fan day. Oh, you did. I did.

It's so funny that this would not come up yesterday or today. No, I think I did mention it to you guys. No chance. I found out about the fan day today when I saw a Twitter video of them doing Simon Says on the blue line. That's what I found out about it. Who was doing Simon Says? The fans? Leaves.

Yeah, I was there from 10 to 11. I was in a Rogers area with Jake Muzzen. Cool. Taking pictures and signing autographs. Nice. And let me just tell you something. Okay. Leaf Nation.

Alive and well. Yes. Love that. everybody knows where they are everybody knows the challenges ahead but the love no less committed unbelievable

that's awesome and I just say God bless them all yeah God for them half the building like full that's all and hanging out with Jake was was great too he's what a class act man

boy did they smart dude could they have used him the last couple of years could he not handle more Can I play devil's advocate for a second? Sure. That is when you go, if you are willing on March 19th to go to a fan fest of a last place in the division hockey team,

that is like the true. You are the cultists. Those 8,000 in the building today were the truest of truly fans. Truest. They should have walked around to every fan there and given them a ticket to a game the rest of the way. Totally. Been like, hey,

you guys want to come to this? Could you try a game? As far as I was concerned, I think they got free popcorn. Everything was brought right down, including food. I think you get a hot dog for a couple of bucks, interaction.

Tunny dog? And let me just tell you something. At least, I don't know if they were completely truthful with me or not, but every mom, dad, and child, very high on the.

real Kippenbornborn show. That's awesome. That's awesome. Sometimes I feel bad when we're... A couple of Sammy references for sure. Well, yeah. Where they can totally relate. And, yeah, I mean, I...

I'm blushing. Felt okay. Now, were they just being nice? Probably. Were they lying to me? I don't care. I think it's nice that the Leafs let you in. I didn't get...

I didn't get kicked in the shins. Tree wasn't there waiting with it. He's like, I'll show you the plan we have. Come here, buddy. I've got a plan for you, pal. It's a right plan. No, all good, I think. And again, to the biggest point is that, man, people just still love this team.

Just begging for them, begging for them to be good. They've been good, but... Speaking of which, before I forget, for the 100th straight week, I want you to call the lease line. And I always forget to talk about it in the lease hour. And then we don't get as many as I want to because I don't tee it up, and that's my fault. So call the Leafs Line.

We'll do it tomorrow. So 416, 413, 4141. We'll do the Leafs line tomorrow. So leave a message after the beep and we'll play it on the show. Okay. We got a Craig Bruby clip to start us off on Maple Leaf Fan Day. Tell me? A few. Yeah.

There's a couple, I think. Yeah. We have on Maple Leaf Fan Day, your beloved Maple Leaf Fan Day, Kipper. We had the clip. Clip one. It's really good, and it's great for the fans and the community, and the Scepters are here, and the guys. You know, it's a different day for the guys.

It's like, it's just, you know, it's a relaxing, fun day for them, and they enjoy it too. So it was a great day for everybody. There you go. Great day for everybody, including Kipper. Yep. Happy to hear that. In about 10 or 15 minutes, we'll have Luke Fox join us as well.

Was he down there? He's got, I think, breaking news. as well. Why do you think that? It's my understanding that Oliver Ekman-Larsen named his kid. Bonesy got the scoop, though. Oh, did he? Yeah.

Oliver? No, Bonesy went on the bench and was interviewing him on the bench, and he said the name, but I'm, quite frankly, I forget. I forget. We don't have that information. I forget that they, I could go back and find the clip. In the meantime, Austin Matthews still has not spoken, right? No.

Juicy 32 thoughts today from Elliot Freeman. And we'll get to a couple of things from it. But included in that 32 thoughts is that Austin Matthews is probably heading towards surgery on his knee. Okay. Again, he's not playing the rest of the year. He's going to be fine for next year. Does that bother you that he's having surgery? Is that more of a concern for you?

because it's just to me, whatever the case is, they may just go and clean up whatever they need to clean up. But there's not, this isn't an ACL, this isn't three to six months. This is probably an MCL that it may need maybe a scope or some cleaning up to do. But like, are you really concerned about this surgery, Sam? Well, are you, Borny? I'm happy he's having surgery. Because a lot of times they're like, yeah, we're going to try to rehab this.

and they spend a couple months, and then they go, boy, it didn't clean up. Now we've got to get surgery. I know. But there's also time. You don't want him to Santanderer? No. Yeah.

Again, we're not doctors. We're not playing one on TV, but there's an awful lot of times that you could just leave an MCL alone and it will heal on its own. Like, Leon Drysidal right now is got an issue with one. Like some people can need two weeks, some need four weeks.

Some need surgery. blood flow, right? Who's got a better stream of blood to the area that needs to get rehabilitated? Who knows? But when it feels good, it'll feel good again. That's what you need to kind of feel. Now, if a doctor says there might be a slight tear

or something to clean up, go and do it. But you think this hurts him long term? You think this hurts his value? If you want to trade him, Sammy, what is the concern on surgery? I would prefer to, superstar center of my favorite hockey team to not get knee surgery at age 29.

I mean... It's not a great thing. No, it's not like... I mean, it's probably run-of-the-mill. Lots of guys get it, but you know... This is like a cup of coffee for some of these guys. Well, I know, but, you know, the back stuff, the pictures of him with the shoulder taped up, the knee.

Like, there's just... It feels like these ailments for him. I mean, the mystery wrist where he couldn't shoot it for a long time. It just feels like there's kind of... They're piling up here a little bit. What bothers me more than anything is that I want him to have an... awesome summer. I want him like, all right, you know, we're not in playoffs this year. So starting mid-April, you can take your two weeks off, get at it, get leaner, faster, you know, find the pop

he used to have in his step. He needs an awesome summer. And so I don't love the idea that the first two months are going to be take it easy and do some gentle squats and try to strengthen the area. I don't love that. That's all. But I mean, you got to do what you got to do. It's just not ideal. Totally agree. How many months until training camp? Six? It's a lot of time where you can... There's plenty of time.

There's plenty of time. Regular season games start in September this year. Do you know that? What? Yeah, it's 84 games, man. Oh, yeah. Why? More games. Why? I love the games.

Yeah, but like 82 games isn't enough? Nope. We can't decide things. We need two more. I'm pretty sure. Well, I guess, I mean, the playoff race this year, you could make it a little two games extra to be... Could have been all the sins needed the time we get there.

So, Brubay was kind of asked about the differences in playing under the pressure in Toronto and playing, you know, or sorry, coaching in Toronto and the pressures and coaching elsewhere. He goes, sorry, excuse me, he gave an answer on it. I don't know if you guys find it interesting or not. We can play it.

Clip three. Shwarma. Well, yeah, I mean, it's, this is a, It's a huge hockey market. And I've been in Philadelphia where it's a pretty big sports market there too. Not just hockey, but all the sports. And, you know, there comes criticism with not doing well, and that's part of the game.

And you've got to understand that's just the way it is, and you've got to deal with it. You know, like they have every rate to be critical, and they pay good money for tickets, and they want the Leafs to do well. when they're not doing while there's going to be some criticism. Nice to hear. That's how I feel about our show.

I don't think it's actually ever really changed. Of course, with more social media, more podcasting, more ability for people to have their own platform for however long they want to go. That's changed the dynamics. But from year to year, decade to decade, it's always kind of been that way here. and in Montreal for sure and to lesser degrees now and other markets across the country, Vancouver.

But I don't think anybody's truly surprised that or feel like it's way worse today than it was 10 or 15 years ago because it's been magnified by social media. Yeah. I mean, social media is definitely a thing. But I don't think it helps the argument that it's always been this way and no one in Canada has won a cup in 30 plus years. you know, like it, if it is a factor, the no cups thing kind of makes it seem like it's an important one.

I don't know. Like, that's the proof? Well, I don't think it's a piece of evidence that helps the case that it doesn't matter. I don't know. Is that too many backwards that I... No, I'm just saying, I'm like, you're now, it's the media's fault. It's not, it's the media's fault, but it's certainly, you got teams on the no trade, they're on no trade lists all over the league.

Yeah, you're right, because everyone can't have. handle the snow. Other thing in Frege's 32 thoughts today that I found pretty fascinating was more to the Matthew Nyes thing. I think you were the first person to bring it up, Kipper, the day after the trade deadline or the Monday after, whatever that was, that blew all over

our minds. It looks like there was a little bit more interest, maybe than just the the HABS. The teams that Frege listed in his article were Anaheim, Chicago, Montreal, New Jersey, Utah. There was some teams that didn't believe the Maple Leafs were serious about it,

but now recognize the possibility. Yeah. So we've heard from a ton of insiders, right? From there's nothing there to now serious. So it depends on where you stand. And now the kind of trick now is to kind of mention that, like, if you hear a name out there, it's like, are the Leafs shopping his name?

or are the Leafs taking calls on him? Because the perception is that we're always going to listen and we're going to try to make our team better. But there's also the feeling of we're out there aggressively searching for an alternative if we trade him. And certainly from Friege's latest, it sure feels like they were shopping him. And I tell you, what I,

don't like about the whole thing. First of all of it doesn't make any sense to me. Just in terms of like three years from now, if they did a rebuild, it would be 25, you know, which I don't really love. My opinion on it is, can we not?

Yeah. He could be an absolute ground on the league for years. Groundbreaking opinion. If I can turn him into three pieces, all of high end value, you better look at it. Well, yeah, look at it for sure.

And as you said, listen on calls. If you're listening to people, The second you start doing that and taking it seriously, you better involve the other 30 teams, right? Like, you better check and make sure that everyone knows that that's an option. So I kind of get how it gets here. The one thing that bothers me, if I'm the Toronto Maple Leafs, and let's say I was listening on calls.

I was taking those calls. That's all I was doing. What would you give me? And now it's out there in the media that there's four or five teams that we were considering with Matthew Nyes. You put it in Matthew Nyes's head that, like, to think about what it might, be like somewhere else, maybe less pressure, less snow, less taxed.

You start thinking about it and you get this guy going, maybe I would like that. I don't like putting it in his head that they aren't fully committed. And especially the point that they're trading him. Especially the point that JD's made, and I think he maybe made it with you, the guy that was signed here, said he loves being a leaf, didn't, no fuss, no contract, signed a long-term contract, said he'd stay here. Actually won a couple of fights. Scored playoff goals for them, overtime winners.

It's just like he's had. So we had Valley on Tuesday, and I wanted to crawl into his head a little bit from a goaltending perspective and I asked him how, how Jari would feel knowing that they named Ingram. And he says, basically he said, like, who cares? Embarrass him, whatever. It's like you had it.

And I'm not saying that is the case here for Nyes, but I'm like, okay, so he gave you a discount. who cares? Okay, so he's super. Like, I'm not thinking about Nyes here. I'm thinking about the Toronto Maple Leafs and what's best for them. You don't get to,

you don't get to Trump, like, that we, we committed to you and we, and your feelings are first over what I feel is best for the hockey club moving forward. And whether or not it's Brad,

who, needs to go face him and talk to him and explain what is going on. And he can, at the end of the day, guys, it happens all the time. Whatever you hear out there, a general manager, a coach can go talk to a player and say, don't believe that crap. And it's like, oh, okay. And then you go on with your day. But you can't sit there and put Nize's feelings first over what's best for the hockey club.

How long have you been in this room telling us? us about egos and being careful with the players and watching out how this is the what happened to the players guy you've been this whole time give me give me an example where it's never been about the team first right i mean all the mitch stuff was never team first it was always but Mitch wasn't a Mitch listen i told you before he left over a year ago they should have traded them they should have traded them yeah and that's not putting minutes ahead of the team when I told you over a year ago

they should have traded him. That's me thinking about the Toronto Maple Leafs first. You wanted to get Mitch somewhere he wanted to be out of here. That was helping him get where he was going. I couldn't give a crap about Mitch and where he was going. I only cared about the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And this is no different. So whether it's Brad Tree Living in June or July or a new guy coming in, it's not it's not oh I'm worried about Matthew Nyes and his feelings and dealing with this stuff

it's not it's not even that though it's not about his feelings be a pro just be a pro it's not about a getting the most out of them if you're going to keep them you want a committed guy who's a bleed blue and white to Maple Leaf not a guy that you're like we're not sure about you I don't think that's a great

relationship but like but it may be true yeah okay it may be true They may not be sure about him. They like him. He's a big, heavy guy. He's got all the tools in the world. And I just don't feel like you're the guy that's going to bring that every night

and start looking like an alpha dog or a ferocious power forward every night. I'm going to tell you something. Okay, is he Tom Wilson? Can he be Tom Wilson? Of course he can be Tom Wilson. Will he? I don't know. What I'm going to tell you and is going to shock you, I agree.

I agree. You know, the difference between this situation and all those other guys that came before the core four guys is this never happened because you wouldn't dare step on the toes of Willie or Mitch or Austin. You wouldn't dare imply. Even when after the year when they would lose Shanahan did his presser and was like, we're calling them.

They're all coming back. Double down. No one ever had to feel like, oh boy, they could ship me out of town and have some expectation. More I think about it. Okay. Let's do it a different way. And then Valley,

Valley talked me out of it, too. I'm like sitting there going, don't you need to protect Tristan Jari a little bit? And he's like, ah, you know, no. We have Luke. Maybe you can guilt him into playing better. Listen, you guys argue for it. Sorry, Luke.

It's all good. Luke Fox, sportsnet.com.com. How are you, my friend? Pretty good. So you guys just traded Matthew Nyes? Yeah. No, we let him think we were open to the, possibility.

Okay. That's all we do. Did you participate in fan day today? Did you shoot a puck? Did you get some free popcorn today? What was your day like today? You know what, Nick? It's March break and I took my son to an outdoor rink and played shenny instead.

Oh, that warms my heart. We had like two hours, two hours on an ODR. I missed out on the dog races and Oliver Eckman-Larsson revealing his son's name and all the exciting stuff of Fand-Day. I hope the kids who went and had fun. Named him Larson. No, I think Louis. I think that's the official name.

Is it actually? Yeah. Louis William. But he made it crystal clear. It wasn't after Willie on the team. Oh, really? All right. So we were, do you want to?

Yeah, you start. Yeah, well, we were just doing the Matthew and I's conversation that his name had come up with a few different teams. Where do you stand on our debate? Like, is it a bad thing for not? and kind of feel like maybe the Leafs aren't sure about them? I don't think it's a horrible thing. But I wonder how much of that has to do with what else do they have to trade

and who actually doesn't have trade protection. And you look at the core guys that anyone, another team would want. He's the only one that has zero trade protection. So it's a very unique scenario in which you can take calls from 31 teams. Give me your best offer. I think everything should be on the table. They're on track for the worst year-over-year plummet in terms of standings points this season.

For my money, they're the most disappointing team in the whole league this year, and that's acknowledging the Winnipeg Jets. I think the Leafs came in talking about Cup, and now we're talking bottom five. So I think everything should be on the table. Now, you've got to win that trade. Like you've got to be very careful, but why not take calls?

I mean, that's a job right now. You have to be open to all scenarios. Does it, like, again, we're not here to all of a sudden fire or bring back Brad Tree Living, but is there a sense that whoever it is in charge, regardless, we are heading to this type of summer, this type of draft, where we're just going to hear all kinds of things about each and every one of them. Yeah, I think so.

I mean, I'm sure you've heard it, Nick. Like, I think they're thinking, do we want William Nealander part of this future? Now, William definitely has a major say in that, right? He has full no move. He can tell them get lost. I sign the no move. I love it here.

I'm comfortable. But I think everything is on the table. and I think it should be. But that doesn't mean you're selling guys for, you know, pennies on the dollar and you're just making crazy moves just to make moves. But I think you should try and be creative. I think one of the things that's held this front office back, whether it's this regime or the previous, is they haven't been that creative in terms of how can we change the mix here. It's been a lot of, oh, we'll rent, we'll go in with the same group and then we'll rent a guy or we'll find a guy. or we'll find a good character guy that is willing to take less

and play out his last days in Toronto. But there hasn't been, you know, really interesting moves. And I think maybe we could be in for one this summer. Yeah, it does seem like interesting is ahead. So the next, I think there's 14 games left. I would anticipate we'll see some more HL call-ups. Do you think that they would, I don't want to say intentionally lose, but soften their lineup with the bottom five pick in mind?

I mean, we've already started to see some guys like Pizzetta. I wouldn't be surprised if he got called back up. You know, Carolina Hurricanes have Deloree now. The Ottawa Senators, I'm heading to Ottawa for that game Saturday, and I'm predicting that that one could get feisty. I mean, I don't know how you would feel, Nick, if you caught wind, that the captain of a team you're about to play in a few days is calling you out on his podcast, calling you guys soft for not sticking up for your captain.

So I wouldn't be surprised if that game in Canadian Tire Center gets a little feisty. So I would be calling up Posetta for that one just in case. And we're seeing Quilling get a few more minutes. Bo Gru's been a really nice story here for a couple weeks now. Beyond that, there's not a lot to call up. but, you know, give them minutes. The problem is, I don't know if Brubay is ready to throw in the towel. I mean, you guys probably saw William Nealander's ice time in that Islander's loss.

Right. It was through the roof. So he's still trying to win the games. So it's going to be really tricky, I think, to fall all the way to bottom five. You're watching and listening to Luke Fox from Sportsnet.com, NHL writer. Just on that topic and maybe setting the table for that game this weekend against Ottawa, can we expect with a little over a dozen games left that it will have that feeling, whether it's Morgan Riley again and, you know, love Morgan for so many good reasons.

I made it abundantly clear. I just don't want to see him do that, you know, just in terms of, I think there should be a dozen other guys. I'd like to see do that before Morgan Riley. But is that the anticipation from here on end that they, the guilt that they still feel over their captain will carry this over for the next, what, four weeks? I think it might. You know, we were talking to Craig Brubay and he said that they've talked about it almost daily.

Like it wasn't one meeting about this thing. It's stuck with them. This isn't just people on the outside like radio programs like yours or articles bringing this up. It's a very real issue in that dressing room. took it to heart. The sad thing, or I don't know, the, you know, it feels like they're chasing it now. They're going out of their way. Like, I didn't think McLean's contact on Joseph Ball was all that egregious.

But it's like they're trying to make up for lost time, whether it was the Austin thing, whether it was Sam Bennett in the playoffs, whatever it is. There feels to be this urgency. We have to show our teammates what we're made of, and we have to stick up for one another, We have to show it to the coach and to management. You know, going back to how we started this conversation about making roster changes, I wonder if some guys feel like I better show I'm a good teammate or they might find a new home for me if they want to stay here, right? Like, I think there's that incentive too.

So one thing we've talked about ad nauseum and lots of people have is just who's going to be making the decisions. Like we're assuming they're not going to make the playoffs. The season ends. I haven't looked at the exact date. I assume it's April 15th or thereabout. how long after that do we anticipate that these exciting things we've talked about may start happening, whether that be with

people in positions of power or players moving? Yeah, I'd just be guessing, but usually it's only a few days after if you're going to fire a coach, you don't let them twist in the wind for too long. If you're going to fire a GM, you don't let them twist in the wind for too long because you want to have time to do a proper search.

That's the other thing that needs to happen if they do that is it's not just rush. Like there's times in the past. Like I know for a fact, Kyle Dubas just picked Sheldon Keith, right? Like he had him in mind the whole time and he didn't interview hardly anyone else. Like he didn't do a proper search. I think we've gone to the point now where they better be a little bit more thorough. So those type of decisions would probably come, I would like to think, early on. But as far as roster changes, I think you probably have to wait to the end of the point.

playoffs because there's teams with with players you might want that are still playing so it might be a summer thing look jubeney feel for where their goaltending situation will be go be headed short term and long term here because again if we're talking about marleys i want to see hill to be back up here getting some games okay and we also know that he needs to clear waivers next year and there's three of them right now um do you just expect Stolars and Wall to carry this thing right through? Or is there a chance that, you know, we'll see the Hill to Beast? Wow.

I hadn't thought about that, Nick. I don't think so unless there's an injury. Because what a slap in the face that would be to one of those guys. Excuse me? Are we back to thinking about their feelings over the hockey team's feelings? Imagine, no, but imagine it's like, hey, we want to take a look at the kid. It's not like either of them have played that many games this year. And they both have years of contract ahead.

So yeah, it would definitely be a direct statement. It's okay. Yeah. It's okay. It's a competition for those jobs. Well, I think they would have to play poorly. And right now I think they're actually both playing pretty well. If they're playing well and they say,

I know you're healthy and I know you're playing well, but we're playing Hill to be, that would be. If I'm just thinking about adding. value to my situation here. Get that guy back up here. Let him play well and let the teams look at what I have in the off season. Should you choose to make me an offer on any one of them, I can't turn down. I feel like he had hurt, has potential to hurt his value more than anything.

But it hurts the value of stoleers or rule me. Why? Why would it hurt him? He's a good goalie. And I believe in him. Okay. And I like them. What if you don't?

I don't need. But then you're wondering. You're in the, you're in the wrong business. if you're trying to hide guys and worrying about them not playing well. But if you're in the market for a goalie, Nick, and then the Leafs are sitting, say, it's Stolars, aren't you wondering, I don't know if I want Stolars? They don't even want to play them.

Is he banged up? Or do they not like his performance or his attitude? I think it raises too many questions. I'm moving in a different direction now. I've got to get younger, okay? And I got 30-plus goalies who've never played 40 games in a season. interesting we're going to have a lot of hurt feelings in the dressing room now well i mean i'm not saying you can't trade one of them i just think it would be a bit bizarre to just sit sit one right now

all right anyway all right luke uh back on the ice for your afternoon session with your kid or what's the deal oh no my knees are cooked you got two days for your kid great stuff luke appreciate it all right have a good one guys. Luke Fox, Sportsnet.com. One thing we haven't mentioned. They have three goalies, and they can't keep them all together.

But they can next year, right? They just wouldn't call it. How can they keep three? Exact same as they currently are. So you don't, like, I mean, his A.HL numbers are sparkling this year. He'll be right. He's having a really great HL season.

He was above serviceable when he played in the NHL this year, had moments this year where he was very good. I think he has a same percentage above 900. I don't think you need to play him in these games down the stretch here to have him have value in the off season if you're thinking about trading he'll to be. That may be fair. Is it not? I think people have seen enough of him. I may be fair.

I'm also not trading. I just want, I want to send a message to that like he's the only goalie that came through for me this year. 9-12 in the NHL in 19 games. Yeah, like he was good this year. He was the only 9-0-60. He was the only. 9-0-6.

He was. That's pretty good. Very good, America. He was the only goalie I could count on this year. Oh, being available. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the most important part of being a goalie on the team.

Those numbers are like 9.05 or something again. Jari's been pretty available for the Oilers. I don't think it's the most important thing. But you have to be available first before you play well, Sammy. Yeah, that's fair. It's the most important thing is availability. We can quibble on that. Performance is pretty important too.

Second. Okay. One thing we haven't discussed is they've signed two players. We even mention their names, guys. The Leafs signed a 5-foot-8 defenseman named Vincent Borgese. And by the way, I don't say 5'8 as a, to just like take a knock at the kid right away. This guy is the captain of the team. He's their best defender.

He's a puck mover. He's been, Kobe Baker, finalist. He's unbelievable. Turns into Brian Brifolski. Right. So anyway, we are talking about throwing darts right now. Yeah, and they signed forward Brandon Burr to a one-year contract. He is a bigger 6-2-208 forward.

He's been playing university hockey as well. Union. Is that his real last name or just when he goes ice cold? That's good. It's good. I like that. Burr, and it could be Borgesi or Gacy. Do you anything else on those guys?

One's big, one small. one's a forward, one's D. I find that we do get really excited about these college free. I'm back to 2014 where like the names they'd sign these guys at this time of year. I'm like, oh. Tyler Bozak. Christian Hansen. I played college.

Tyler Bozac. I can't tell you. Chris Hanov was one of those signings. The kids who get nominated for the Hobie Baker Award are unbelievable. And then they end up in pro hockey. It's like, I don't know, they're okay. I got to tell you. up.

He made the list. Yeah, he's the final list. Yeah. But he's 18. McKenna. Like, Borgesi here. Yeah. He's 22.

They're going to narrow it down to three or four, I think, right? But he's in the top 10. Yeah. So I just meant maybe I'll, I'll say this now. Why not? I was, you mentioned 2014, I mentioned that there. And I just, I saw a clip come across my Twitter today of the draft line. lottery of them like of bill daily being like and it's the Toronto Maple Leafies I can't tell you how

little a time ago that feels and it's just like first of all it's me just getting older and starting to realize how fast time passed but second of all it's unbelievable just as a big picture of conversation that we're sitting here without one conference finals appearance with two series wins over this whole era and you got a first first overall fourth overall eighth overall and Tavares as a first overall as the core of the team. Crazy. I love to talk about the simulations thing. You could run 100 simulations of this era,

and it feels like a bottom 10 result. Very unlikely outcome. It's unbelievable. Makes me believe in real curses and leaves. If you believe in the multiverse, we're in a very dim version of all the different universes. And in the... We don't have enough time to start...

Well, we could. Looking back and going, where did it all go wrong in Sammy's 10 years? And on the tree, on the cherry on the... the Sunday is in the final year of it, the captain who was supposed to be the savior tears his knee, which is going to lead to them giving the sixth overall pick to the Bruins. That is happening. I am more confident than I've ever been that they're going to pick six to ten for sure. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. For sure. And I bet you the Bruins take a big D man. I did wake up today. Right shot. Seeing a lot of value in picking into the top five today. Yeah. Oh, you did.

Yeah. I see the value of it. It's so funny you say that because I saw the other side of it for the first time today. It's hilarious that we flipped. Like I thought about it this morning. We're freaky Friday. When there's no clear path, that's when you know you're truly bold. I just, I believe that if they were lucky enough to get into the draft this year like that,

it just need a little hope for Leaf Nation. And a fresh new feel on someone. would be enough to make what next year should be a very trying season. God, it would be nice, man. And you know what? I just, I hate to say this, but I'm going to say it because it's in my heart. Right now, they just do everything wrong. You know, we saw this coming a month ago saying either commit to the tank or don't.

It just no plan. I don't think they do everything wrong. It's all gone wrong. It's not even, it's, it's not commit or not commit or not commit. It's like there is no other way. There's only one path. And the path is. Yeah.

Start fresh. Oh, my. Yeah. Hold on, no, no. Here's why you can. Go ahead. Here's why you can. Yeah.

Because if you don't, like let's say they do pick in the top five this year. Yeah. And you want to start fresh. Your picks are unprotected. Yeah. Coming up. And you're going to wipe it out and not get your pick. Just one.

Yeah, one of your two. You're not going to get that pick. So why not try that year? Try for another year. But where is your path to try for another year? Tell me where the path is. I mean, I have done that 10 times. And 10 times you came up with a big goose egg.

No, that's not. I mean, I think there is a path back for this team. But just tell me one way. Well, that Matthews finds himself again, it is the Matthews we know, and that Nealander is still there. Not enough. I know it's not.

Matthew Nyes takes a big step, and Easton Town becomes a contributor. Not enough. Pick in the top five, and now you've got Gavin McKenna or whoever. Gavin McKenna is going to need four years, three years before he's relevant. Yeah, I don't know about that.

Matthew Schaefer, Celebrini. A lot of these kids are pretty good, pretty early. I know they're very good, but fine enough he's not there. But he's light. He's late and he's a winner. Chris Tanna is back and he's a big part of Not enough. What you got going on.

You sign Alex Stock and Charlie Coil And you build up the other guys in your team. It's not happening. Take some of these picks that you just acquired whatever And you flip and you make a trade for it. No, no, no. That's just hope and a prayer and a Hail Mary. Yeah, well that's kind of what they got.

No, no, no, no. The tear down's not a here's the way back either. It's torn down already. It's torn down. They can't, this is not the group that's going to take you somewhere. It's over. It's just time to admit it's over. But if you tear it down, but if you tear it down, you don't get the pick.

So what's the point? What do you tear you down for? So you want to trade everyone in the next summer, go ahead or at the deadline. Two years. Take a six-month swing. Two years. But in your world then, the one that you're living in in this extremely dark hellscape is that they should be giving the pick this season.

reason because then it's sure next year it's not unprotected right it's top 10 is that what it is yeah you if you picked in the top 10 next year you still get your pick right yeah but but and then the next year it's your pick it's your pick again yeah so if you want them to

tear it all down the best course of action is to just give the Bruins the 7th or 8th or 9th pick this year trade everyone trade everyone that's the best course actually not have this year in the next you're you just have no choice it is what it is and just pick your poison,

but you're still staring at the same scenario where... I'm holding on to Columbus. Columbus is what I'm holding on to, please. It's just time to look. And whether or not you get rid of Matthews this summer or the following summer or next trade deadline. Yeah. And same with Willie.

Like, hey, boys, we gave it a nice whirl. Yeah, we don't fundamentally agree, though, that this team is this year. you're bad. This year is like you need to see it with a new coach. You need to see all those things I mentioned next year. You're allowed to have one bad year. And see where you're at. Look at Columbus. Avoid Bonesy.

They're the best team in the league for... The tear down, you can be Buffalo, you can be Detroit. You don't know what you're tearing it down two or four. That's a bigger hope and a prayer than this plan. But at least I got players in my plan. It's... It looks torn already to me. There's damage.

There's some damage. Yeah. A couple of bombs rocked the foundation. No doubt. All right. All right. Well, hey, listen,

we got something to talk about for the next month and a half. No, we don't. There's nothing else there. What else do you want to say? What else do you want to stay? Oh,

you probably. All right. Yeah. Christian, in his mind, he's like, we got to hit a break. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. Okay. We'll close this conversation up after the break. Real Kippern born. Get smarter when you listen to hockey talk. The Hockey PDO cast with Dmitri Philipovit. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipperman Bourne, Leaf Hour edition.

Nick Kippreel's, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. The top of the hour, welcome in Hall of Famer, Adam Oates. Always love listening to this guy because he just has a different view. Now I try to come up with different views. I can't find him like this guy. Nope, he's got a unique eye for the game. Our boy Russo, too, who is at the... Mike Russo.

Who's at the juiciest GM meetings of all time? And he's got his eye on Austin Matthews, does he not? Well, he did say something about that. All right, we'll get into that as well. When I texted him, he didn't mention it, so... In the meantime, our very own Elliot Friedman, with his 32 thoughts, give it a download after you've downloaded our show. Well, it's a written one. You can just go click on it.

You have to download it. Oh, okay. Then don't, don't, don't... Don't download his podcast. I don't think they're worried about downloads, boys. I think they're doing fine. They do pretty well. What else has he got to say, Sammy, about your beloved Leafs? That's, let me read it here.

This is number 13, the thought that the Canadians have done a nice job of shielding their true intentions. There were rumors of a defenseman of Nyes and even something else where they might want to revisit. They definitely explored moving money. There was discussion about Patrick Line and ending up in either Philadelphia or Toronto. But it obviously didn't work out. I had Patrick Liney on my trade board. I thought for sure there would have been some team out there for less than a million bucks,

like 800,000 that would go, let's have a look. You're talking about next season? Just the remainder of this season. And if it looked, just have a look. It's not like the guy's like 33. He's 27. That is shocking.

Is time going slower for Linae? How is he 27? Same age as Matthews. Whatever the case is. Yeah, same draft. Same draft. So, no, Matthews is 28. Okay.

And Lainet's 27. He's obviously had, I guess, two major injuries. And I don't know why. Like, even Toronto, I would have found a way to bring him in. Yeah. Just have a look-see. and if he's no good he's done at the end of the year

yeah yeah it's a completely no risk situation and they probably would have basically well given him away probably withheld little money too give him away yeah I think everything's Montreal's I think done their best to try to help him

but if there's no takers there are no takers and Marty St. Louis will not play him you know it's a weird thing with line A is like he stopped being a hockey player at some point, you know, like a get in there and get physical and play and get the puck. Like he just became like he wanted to be Ovechkin. He wanted to stand

in the one spot and shoot it and he can do that like few people on the planet. You got to play hockey. You got to have a little something to your game. So if we look back on Austin Matthews career here and of course the goal

scoring right up there, but the other thing that was right up there with you know, even his debut of four goals in one game versus Ottawa was this one game in Winnipeg where they went toe to toe on a Saturday night.

Line-A-O-T winner? It wasn't a Saturday night. It was a weeknight because it was the same day that the Blue Jays got eliminated by the Cleveland then Indians in the ALCS I went home, leased were up four zip, I was like oh at least I have this. They blew that lead. Patrick Lines

scored an overtime and I smashed my TV remote. No. And I was just Like, are you? And it exploded. So, not that I remember it. I don't remember what day it was, and he remembers all of that. Yeah. And then Austin Matthews also had a break away in that set overtime.

And I tried to go five hole, stopped, went back the other way. Lineis scored, they won, 5'4, I think, was the final score of that game. That was a fun game. Yeah. Listen, he was, there was a conversation about, like, for a couple years there with Jets fans where they're like, they used to chant that line A is better whenever they would Oh, their line is better. The chant went away.

It dried up for sure. That reminded me of the dueling Crosby-Ovechkin playoff Hattricks. Yeah, that's maybe a hot take. That game's totally overrated. Yeah, well, they both had three goals. They did have both have three goals. They were like, oh, this classic battle. Washington was up big, and he scored to make it six three or five three in the last minute

where it was just like a meaningless goal. Yeah. They ended up winning anyways, but I just thought that game was overrated. If we don't go to our rainman. over here. Sorry. I watched. Everything that I had heard,

everything that I had heard that just didn't get close anywhere for Patrick Liny, unfortunately. Yeah. People aren't sure. I bet you he gets a one year, one million dollar deal type of thing this summer,

maybe two million. And it may be with a team with, I don't know, lower expectations than a Stanley Cup. The Maplers? Um, if, if he didn't trade for him now,

again, who's making that decision. Like for the Leafs, it's going to be this whole thing. You got to get creative. All right, Mason McTavish isn't playing. Does he, can he find it based on what his expectations were? Right? It was big, but he signed a contract for sure.

Well, this year, right? I find that a lot of these guys when they go to the mat on a contract and then it's just to have their worst years. Whatever it is about the psyche, it really... He signed a six-year, $42 million contract, $7 million per season. And he can't get in the lineup for the ducts. Healthy scratch.

Here's the other factor when it comes to McTavish in Anaheim is the guy behind the bench, Joel Quineville. I don't know how many other coaches would bench that guy. That reputation contract. It's like McAvish is and should be on most nights one of their better players. But if you're not playing a certain way, you're not even good enough to be in my lineup. I think there's a lot of coaches that would have been scared to go to a 23-year-old who was third pick overall and go, have a seat. A lot of people have made the case that Babs was actually the right coach for the Toronto Maple Leafs

in the early days for those kids. And I know the right guy wrong time could be the story of this era. You know, had he come in halfway through or something because he didn't want Matthews to play more than 19 minutes. He was harder on guys. But Lou was part of that too. where he lose signature, you know, reputation was around, don't give these guys too much too soon, which included not even being available to the media when they first came, started their pro careers. Quickly before we go, the Maple Leafs just put out a statement.

Maple Leafs captain, Austin Matthews, underwent successful MCL knee repair surgery today in New York City. his recovery time is approximately 12 weeks. A lot of weeks. Three months. I also want to add that the New York Islanders are moving their farm team to Hamilton. Oh. I don't like it.

You like having your farm team right there. I was commuting back and forth. All those. Beautiful new building now. Okay, yeah. I guess a little bit more challenging in the winter. But yeah, I'm pumped that they're closer to me. I can go to some action.

A hammer. They used to have the Montreal farm team forever. The Hamilton Bulldogs. Maybe they're getting ready to the H&M. Maybe they're getting ready for an NHL team. No, that's the OHA team. Okay. We'll also call the Bulldogs.

Whatever. They were Hamilton and now they're the brand for them. Got it. So anyways, confusing. I understand. Our thanks to Luke Fox, who joined us earlier. Sammy, great job changing the jersey over. Thanks, bud.

Nailed it. I'll try to do it for the national out. We'll see. You're the man. We go national next. Hall of Famer, Adam Oates. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.