Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Identity Crisis

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee recap the Maple Leafs' overtime loss to the Boston Bruins, the tug-of-war between Craig Berube's style of play versus the players' approach on the ice and if they can sustain Chief's method through 82 games. Then, the guys dive into the new power-play units ahead of their matchup against the undefeated Winnipeg Jets. Afterwards, Nick, Justin and Sam share their thoughts on Jake McCabe's freshly signed contract extension.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right ready to go here real kipper and born show leaf edition hour nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo and jake the snake schultz ready for action halloween action a ghastly ghoulish hour what do we got some stuff up we are live on sports net 590 the fans sports net 360 and sports net plus the toronto maple leafs drop a 4-3 overtime decision of the boston bruins at td garden as they head into winnipeg where they are unbeaten in 8-0 and oh and as i look at our set as we get ready for halloween i can't help but look at this skeleton uh to the left of me and think that's a leaf fan right now that's that's the last leaf leaf fan to have been happy you know that actually is that's the memory of monday night that's the goodwill from monday last monday we came in a week ago today

and boy was it a different day fresh off no not even fresh off the tampa they played them they played them on monday last uh amazon game they beat the i guess it would have been they beat oh they lost to the rangers but a, I guess it would have been they beat. Oh, they lost to the Rangers, but a good effort. Good game, yeah. And then they beat Tampa. What a week since. What a week since. I can't ever recall seeing, like, okay, I get it, right?

You're jaded as a Leaf fan every year. And then over the course of whatever you need to kind of get over. And then there's going to be some optimism. But it's over a stretch. I don't think I've ever seen it go from one week to another so quickly. It's like that Red Bull high dive guy, the guy who jumped out of space, just a straight drop. Something Baumgartner, wasn't it? I think so, yeah guy who jumped out of space just a straight drop. Something Baumgartner, wasn't it?

I think so, yeah. But no, it has been a free fall. Total Tom Petty free fall over the course of the week. Okay, so where were you on Saturday night after the game? Because, and we'll get into what we saw, but I saw a winnable game for the Toronto Maple Leafs Saturday night. I will say often, and when the Leafs are kicking the crap out of a team,

you'll be like, this team's terrible. But they weren't even kicking the crap out of Boston, but you still felt pretty consistently that that was not a good Bruins team. No, no. And I thought they've got some issues. Speed for me is an issue. A little slow on the back end for me

is an issue with the Boston Bruins. Swayman looked pretty darn good though. Yeah. And much like Stolarz has, I thought it was kind of toe-to-toe there, but Swayman ended up making one or two bigger saves. And was that the difference? Just two 96-point teams duking it out, in your opinion, or what?

I thought that was a sign for me that the Leafs could go in there and still find a way to get two points. Even going into overtime, you felt like the Leafs find ways. Yeah. They're one of the best teams in the league the last two years when pulling a goalie, going six on five. And like, I don't know what Boston was thinking. Like the most dangerous player is throwing down

200 feet, full steam ahead. And you've got nobody near him. No. I will say. Go ahead. You're going to give Tavares credit for the pass. What a play. The pass that Tavares made opened up the whole thing. near him no i will say oh yeah go ahead you're gonna give tavaris credit for the play the pass

that tavaris made and the one that marner made maybe one of the best passes i've seen tavaris make in like years full cross ice and all of a sudden things opened up and the bruins got stretched and you know give him and mitch marner the puck and the other the d is stretched he's gonna find a seam so beautiful goal but yeah the problem was for most of that game it felt like that over reliance on the first line was back and i'll i'll give you the analogy of like what i see craig bruby and even um tree living going through a little bit is like you know when you lose something and you're looking at all these different spots in the house and you can't find it and then you ask someone else hey do you have you seen? And they go look in the exact same spots first.

Like, oh, have you tried here? Have you tried there? They're doing all the same things. We have the answers. It's like they haven't seen it yet. Buddy, that's my every day in the fridge. It's like, it's not here. The ketchup's not here.

Yeah. And then it's like, yeah, the ketchup's there. Right. But this is the thing. Like, I'm watching, I'm watching the same. Ketchup isn't there. The ketchup isn't there. I'm watching Ruby go through this and be like,

what if we tried Tavares of Nylander? And it's like, we did this. I know you weren't here, but we've done this. The Leafs have done this. What about if we do Riley off the first power play on it? We've tried it. We've tried it. Do you want to thought in before we go to listen to Craig Ruby?

I think that game was closer to blues and blue jackets we've tried it do you want to thought in before we go to listen to craig brooby i think the that game was closer to blues and blue jackets than people will think it was like there was long stretches in that game where yes like listen listen the leafs have amazing skill and it showed out with marner was unbelievable three assists matthew scores you know nice scores one but there was long stretches that game of blah of nothing no the third period buddy the third period alone was like they deserve they didn't deserve a point no way but it was but boston kept it still winnable for them is my point that i i had off the top that somehow some way they could have ended up with still with two points but what did

they have two shots on goal when the game mattered. And then, yeah, they pulled a goalie and they find a way to get a point. But they got a lot of guys who aren't, you know, beyond that top line. It's like you're waiting. They're back to play in Nylander 18 minutes. And it's like this is a guy who needs to play to be in the game. We've done this. All right. play to be in the game we've done this all right go to kipper's clipper to start off our week on a head scratching craig brooby overview yeah it was a tight game you know um you know we

battled back and got the tire tying goal so it's a good hard fought point um you know there's things we can do better and a couple mistakes in the second period you know we just um got to clean those up pretty habits take time to break hard i don't think i don't think he's holding them to a high enough standard hard fought point it's just a babcock arrow He's used to being on middling teams, and this is a middling team. I do find it a little perplexing that he could call a timeout earlier in the season when they were up 5-1 or 5-2 and send a message, but we haven't got really any message sending since then. What was the meme you showed me before? About the Sheldon Keefe thing?

Yeah. About the Scooby-Doo meme where he just pulls off the mask and it about the sheldon keith thing yeah about like the scooby doo the scooby doo meme where it just pulls off the mask and it's actually sheldon keith does it does it feel like the same guy does it feel like a sheldon keith team right now because of what you're talking about with uh yeah it feels like an early sheldon keith team when he was learning that you had to play nylander to get him engaged and you know tavarez and nylander don't work and that like we're it just it does feel like a keith team just an early version of them or or does it just feel like maybe it's just the leafs you know well maybe it's this core this core this group of guys like i looked at i saw i don't know who it was that tweeted out but their starts over the last nine last nine games every year. I think outside of, was it last year?

They're 4-4-1 every start of every season. Yeah, they were 5-3-1 last year. Yeah. So it's like they always have these weird slow starts. It's just, do you have with the new coach the ability to pull out of it and get hot? Like, I'm sure they will, but it's a weird thing that they always start like this. But we did say, and you said specifically,

that there would be some adjustment period of the new coach and that you wouldn't expect them to look great right out of the gates and that they're you suspected and they did look great out of the gate that's why it feels weird right and that's why it feels weird it's tougher to say four four and one after nine games i could have seen it you would have said i could see it if if they would have gone through what they're going through now to start, I'd have a better understanding that it's going to take time and that they haven't got the mindset to play the way the coach wants them to play. But because we kind of watched them jump the shark against Tampa Bay.

They ran it up on New Jersey. They beat up on L.A. They played great against the Rangers. And they did it the way he wanted it done. And we said, I think they're different. And he did it the way that you would go, that could work in the playoffs. Yeah, that, for sure. That's the difference.

I still feel like they have something a little different that could work in the playoffs, just based on Tanev and OEL helping in the back end and their depth forwards are a little more playoff whatever. But it's just so lackluster right now. He just does not like Bobby McMahon, eh? Is it eight and a half minutes or something on Saturday? Yeah, so the play that he kind of got benched after,

or not kind of, did get benched after, was the one Myers throws it up along the dasher. As you both know, one of the hardest plays in hockey, bounce off a stick, lands in the net. I mean, it's a bad play. He's a player that he's trying to, it's not like he's a 21-year-old guy, right? Like, he's a big, strong guy.

He's supposed to be, but he's talked about him today. Like, he just seems like it's a project for him, but I don't know. What Baroby clips do you want to prioritize here because i do want to hear him well let's you know you brought up mcmahon let's go to clip 11 because he does speak of uh and what he talked to him about just like every shift every shift is important and you know every situation is important and just a little more urgency in his game and you know, every situation's important. And just more urgency in his game. And, you know, I think he can be a lot more physical than he is. You know, he gives it physicality in the skating. You can see the power there and stuff, but it needs more consistency.

That's interesting. He could be talking to 14 guys for me. Yeah. Not just Bobby McMahon. Yeah. That's interesting because it's almost like he's decided that this is what mcmahon should be and if mcmahon is going to be anything different he's not going to have it i my college roommate was six foot four and all both coaches i had in

university just wanted him to be a physical guy not a physical guy great player great player but just wasn't the guy the coaches want him to be and then they take away ice time or opportunity because you're not that guy what's the problem they're trying to get blood out of a stone right do you i don't think mcmahon's a killer i don't think he's yeah he can hit some guys and knock him over but i don't think barubi's gonna maybe he will maybe this is the what he needs to do but so outside of the volume man conversation i think one of the conversations we had a lot over the past few seasons with these slow starts because we've been on for a lot of these slow starts and we've had a lot of different conversations over the start of them like are you both confident in the fact that this is going to get hot and take off and the least are

going to be amongst the best teams again that i'm asking you guys if you're confident in that because i don't think i've been confident in years past and it's made me look like an idiot so maybe i'll say that i am confident but i think i'd be lying if i said that kipper i'm confident you're confident yeah um i'm not as confident as i was a few years ago, meaning that under normal circumstances, Sammy, you could look at this roster and say, as is, why not another 100 points? Is it that much different from years past? Stolarz came out of the gate.

Can he give them the type of goaltending along with Joseph Wall eventually that gets them in the same place that they've been the last four or five years the death march to playing tampa yeah i usually say yes but after watching about a week into it i think it's a 50 50 coin toss whether or not this team could still you know i think they've got the talent, the offensive talent to do it again. But I'm just not sure where the complete mindset in. And at least you knew what it was. And Sheldon bought into that.

And Kyle bought into that. Now you got a Craig Berube coming in and he completely wants to turn this thing around. And if it's old habits that are hard to break Now you got a Craig Berube coming in and he completely wants to turn this thing around. And if it's old habits that are hard to break and they find themselves wanting to play more in the East and West game, now there's a little bit of a tug of war going. For sure there is. And in the past, there was no tug of war. We're going to go out there and outskill them and we'll win 6-5.

And we'll continue to be one of the best teams. When we pull our goal in, we need a goal, we'll get a goal. I think that's a really good point. I don't know where the tug-of-war is. I don't know. I've been on enough teams where if some star players don't really like the dump and chase or go in there and hit, then chances are you'll hold my attention for a week,

maybe 10 days, two weeks. But I don't know if I can do that for 82 games. I think McMahon might be the proxy for this war. He's the guy who would love to carry the puck and drive and do the Sheldon Keefe stuff, and I wonder if he's become the proxy for that war. But I'm not even worried about him. I'm worried about Willie and, you know.

For sure. Maybe even Austin. Maybe even Austin. Yeah. Like, can we bend Berube to our will a bit rather than the opposite? Where are those guys? Like you mentioned off the top,

Willie Nylander's minutes are down. Down two minutes a game. PK in. Now is he on the first or second unit on the power play? He doesn't kill it all anymore. Doesn't kill it all anymore. And now he's going to catch the tail end of 40 or 50 seconds if that first unit come off.

This is going to kill Berube. Nylander's one of the guys that makes your team special. You're going to play him 18 minutes and pp2 no no special teams that's not used playing your good players less is not the answer how's how does he react to that but you're right i think we have a bit of a struggle here between the players saying i think we'll do it a bit our way as well we liked your ideas we're gonna play it a bit our way as well. We liked your ideas. We're going to play it a bit our way, though. Just going back to last week at Tampa Bay, like, Berube can go back to them and say,

hey, why did it work against one of your rivals last Monday? Like, I got proof in the pudding right now. Let's go pull the tape out. Let's watch. And watch when you finish checks. And Bobby McMahon had a big hit in the corner. And watch the domino effect and watch the energy in the building for God's sake. We talked about this where it felt like at a certain point, maybe it was the Columbus game where it's like,

can you do, it was on a back to back where it's like, can you play that way? Ruby wants him to over and over and over. We said that we did even before the, the bad. Yeah. Can you do it over, you know, in February and March?

They came out with that first date effort and energy and then eventually said, let's just see if we can get away with a couple because that's really hard to do 82 times. So that's the difference. A couple ghosts of a couple texts. We don't need to, you know, like I'll sneak in a couple ghosts here.

But I do feel like this helps in playoffs like that. I think that maybe they would be, I still see that it's there. that's goes back to your question i was just gonna end up seeing a 100 point team that can get still get into the playoffs quite comfortably but then be in a position of what are you gonna see style of play style of play that is the big thing for me but then is bar Berube missing this opportunity when they're not doing it his way to give the caller a tug and say, yeah, we are.

Isn't a better example than Bobby McMahon, Willie Nylander? It is. Yeah, it is. The good news for Mitch Marner is nobody can blame him Saturday night. No, he was awesome. I shouldn't play him 26 minutes.

Played 26 minutes, though. Like, that's not awesome. It's too much. It's not. And again, it's very Sheldon-like. It is. 26. This is what I'm saying.

We're looking in the same places. We know it's not there. And that's Craig Berube going, I get get it sheldon he's your he's the most reliable guy on my team it's not willie and it's not austin it's marner saturday night killing penalties yeah what a math every he had to have played 24 but he's still two minutes behind marner yeah that tells me everything you need to know about the Sheldons and the Craig Broobies of the world when it comes to number 16. He is a great hockey player, a tremendous hockey player,

and coaches recognize that they can trust him out there. There's no doubt about that. He's a super valuable guy. It's just we've done this, and's not the answer we've seen playoffs with him we know what happens we know where this goes so we can't go the same way from marner 26 minutes to willie 18 18 and willie makes 700 000 more than than mitch what are you doing no i'm just telling you yeah what are you telling you i'm i'm telling you that it's a problem that's what i'm telling you it's an issue so do we we've pretty much called this so from the start with berube and

willie that if there was ever going to be you know a situation that this was going to happen with willie and berube and if there's one guy that's going to butt heads like we've been all over this too it's the old austin powers it's a power struggle right all you do is just my point is there's a guy that needs a new contract right okay i don't know kind of easy negotiation i play 26 he plays 18 yeah i think there's a lot of people would like to see him go play 26 somewhere else hey listen that's an argument for another day or a discussion for another day, and I'm not here to debate that at all. And, you know, at the end of the day,

maybe 16 agrees with you too. You know, I notice this doesn't come up very often when he plays terribly, which has happened this year several times. Listen, he has stunk on a few occasions. A few occasions, for sure. I stink. But I'm telling you right now,

if Mitch Marner coughed up the puck like your captain 34 did Saturday night, it's, the whole world's blowing up on him. For sure. Again. I think there's a whole... 34 does it? Yeah. Did it even get mentioned Saturday night?

What a horrific giveaway that was. Yes! Of course it did! Every person in Toronto mentioned it. I did a 35-minute postgame show and talked about it for five minutes. Off the top. But there's like no...

It's not even close to if Mitch or even to a lesser degree Willie did it. Yeah. I think it's a reflection of public sentiment to those players. I think it's a reflection of a market that's kind of coddled Austin Matthews a little bit. That's, hey, he's been pretty well. But like how does a market coddle anyone?

Like I feel like he has signed contracts early and easily. Yes. And it's like. There you go. Easily. Easily. Yeah. And so everyone's like, okay, this guy seems to want to be a part of this.

And now he's got a little bit of adversity. Yeah. And now he's going to have to work hard now. For sure. He's going to have to kind of dig himself out of it. I think everyone is fairly disillusioned with the whole package. I got to tell you, I don't think this is purely Marner, Harry Kemp, for the past nine games.

I think this is the whole kit and caboodle. I think this is from... It's always... My point is, it's always been the whole kit and caboodle. Okay? But it's easy to blame 16 the most when it's all of them. And are you going to hear and debate

that the share of blames in the last few years has always gone with the four of them? No. Who's taken the brunt of it the most? Marner's definitely taken the brunt of it. Okay. Yeah. Well-deserved or not well-deserved?

At times, well-deserved. Oh, my gosh. A little from Calame, a little from Calame. He leads the team in scoring. He plays the most minutes. But not from game five to seven. We've done this a million times. We're getting bogged down. Not in the biggest games he hasn't. Now, to me,

you're the captain. You're going into Winnipeg. What are we even talking about right now like why we're telling we're relitigating martyrs value versus matthew's value like every damn day we're not i'm just saying like it doesn't get it doesn't get picked up right and it's part of the problem it's this like hurt feelings that matthews doesn't get treated. It's not hurt feelings. And going to their parents and saying, he got a bigger piece of cake than I did. It's not about hurt feelings. It's about like Matthews has got to start owning it a little bit.

When that guy, it's everything falls from the top to the bottom in a dressing room. That guy needs to own it more. The moment that it gets acknowledged that, you know, he's got to be better, and that includes the head coach right now, start with Matthews or start with Willie. Not McMahon. Go make them an example first. Okay? Absolutely.

And this is why it's like i'm disappointed that the accountability coach hasn't done any accountability so far that was supposed to be the non-sheldon change right like this is the guy who's going to come in and grab these guys by the collar rough and tough matthew's gonna win a selkie this year it's like god we ever seen them look worse defensively in some of these games no but i think some of the accountability quote unquote i mean if you win the guy that you just signed to a massive contract at the peak of his powers is playing two minutes less a game that's some accountability i would say i'd say that's a guy that he doesn't trust defensively

and he's playing less and like that's that's a pretty big sign of accountability yeah to me that's misuse but i get your yeah you're overplaying other guys like it's just like marner was good on saturday night but you don't need to play them 26 minutes like they're them on the penalty kill but they don't play 26 maybe it's worse yeah but i don't disagree i think it's worse well i mean if it's nothing behind those guys if it's wall or hill to be that game could have been eight two so you know stoller's made a bunch of unbelievable saves in that including robbing marshaand in overtime before he dug it in. Yeah. Okay, power play.

Let's go there because still a major issue here. Where are you on the two units now going into Winnipeg? So we got Nyes with Matthews and Marner. Sorry, where is the other unit? So it's Matthews, Marner, Riley, Pacioretty, and Tavares. Is that right? Here, I'll read it out to you. All right, let's have it.

The PP1 is Morgan Riley at the top. Yeah. Marner, Matthews, Max Pacioretty, and Matthew Nyes. And Nyes, okay. And PP2 is Oliver Ekman-Larsen, Willie Nylander, Max Domi, Bobby McMahon, and Tavares. They're trying it. They're trying something different, and that's the one place

where it's like, have you looked in this place? We haven't looked in this place. This is a new nook of the home that we haven't searched for your wallet. I'm fine with it. Who's first over the boards? Matthews and Marner. Anything with Matthews and Marner is your first pick.

He talked about it today, clip nine, on splitting up the power play. Well, yeah, it's all about results, right, for the most part. And, you know, we're not getting them, so we've got to try something different and a little bit more direct. This should make it a little bit more direct, the power play. And, you know, it's about getting action at the net more. We need to get more action at the net. And good net front, strong guys at the net that can win puck battles

around there and things like that. So that's what we're looking for with these units. It's something that we've discussed this past week. Yeah. So it can't get any worse. So, it can't get any worse. No, it can't. I believe I screamed about this on Friday. Maybe this is the show.

They can't even carry it in cleanly. No. Their zone entries are just... Didn't you tweet, like, just give me one hard rim? Hard dump in one time. What would you say you do here? They do the play over the boards. It's like over to the sideboards

to Tavares all the time on the entry. And then he's stuck in mud stationary at the blue line. Then all of a sudden you're making maybe the worst passer on the team make a decision and pass. With his feet not moving. And it's not his fault he's not skating. It's at a spot where he's flat-footed.

Let William Nylander carry the puck in. Let Marner carry the puck in. Like, why are you holding it up at the line? Use some momentum. Drives me, like, if you're going to do that drop back, the whole point of that is to pick up momentum. Then why do you stop once you get to the line? It feels like they're trying 14 different things at once

and none of it's working. If you're Mark Savard, pretty early in your time here, your ideas are blown up, right? Like, they've already said, the thing you wanted to do is not working. So that's a pretty early on slap in the wrist from the rest of the staff, I would say. Listen, he was brought in for this.

Was he not? Like, that's it. He's got one reputation. Power play guy. Guess so. We have a broobie on why Riley's back on power play one. That was from, yeah, why they put him back out there on Saturday night for power play one.

So that's clip three, please. Just to see if something could happen, you know. You know, we had the five on three i mean there was two empty nets and we just don't put them in i mean um but it'll come i'm confident in this team and um you know they're gonna get it going they'll get it going the power play so something changed between saturday night where he was confident and then to Monday morning at practice when they've changed it all up. So just two empty nights. Yeah.

There's not a world where if you don't fix this, that you can win or be successful without a decent power play. There's just not, not, not in today's game. And five on fives tough for them too. They're not, they're not producing a five onon-fives, tough for them, too. They're not producing a five-on-five either. Their offense is lagging. Matthews has two five-on-five goals so far this year, which he's still creating the highest expected goals

of that situation, but two in nine games for a guy who had 70 goals last year, one short 69 goals. He had 38 even strength goals last year. I would have probably probably before i maybe even went to this two balance thing i maybe would have taken tavaris off and just put nize on just to let that breathe for a little while yeah hey nize is like kind of the lone bright spot i shouldn't say lone obviously marner was great the other night uh the goaltender but nize is like have

you been pleasantly surprised been great yeah yes absolutely found another yeah he's just growing up and he's uh physically turning into a man right in front of our eyes and it's still trust me it's still difficult to to carry that weight on a team that's supposed to contend for the Stanley Cup on his shoulders as a first-liner still. In a perfect world, you like to bring him along a little slower, but it's not like he's buckling. So really, really impressed with his season so far.

Yeah, I'll give credit to Jonas Siegel here. Matthew Nye's shots per game are up a full shot per game from 1.44 to 2.44 per game i mean that's that makes a difference grab another 80 shots over a year you're gonna score another whatever that is 10 times or so we consistently talk about guys not getting to the middle of the ice and he's exclusively in the middle of the ice yeah like the goal he scores on saturday night was eerily similar i think it was the same net to the one he scored in overtime in game five in boston last year in the middle of the ice yeah like the goal he scores on saturday night was eerily similar i think it was the same net to the one he scored in overtime in game five in boston last year in the first round where he's just going to the front of the net picks the puck off was it matthews it

takes to the net and then it ends up on his stick shoots it in he's in that part of the he's always there so but go back to your original point there kipper that you made that's the right one that if you're gonna quote-unquote fix the power play like just try it without tavares but the tavares thing is getting tough because he's down to 16 and a half minutes per game but i think they're probably cognizant of the amount that's been taken away from him this year and they had to give him a buddy to go down to the second unit with and willie Right? Like, if you just take him off of there after stripping over the captaincy, playing him four minutes less a night or three minutes less a night, it's a lot to pile on a guy.

And we're nervous about hurting feelings? I mean, obviously we are. Is that what you're telling me? That might be my pet peeve. Right? I don't know if they are or not, but it would seem that the way— I agree that they're sensitive to it, for sure. Wouldn't they not think about that at all?

As an organization? but it would seem that the way... I agree that they're sensitive to it for sure. Wouldn't they not think about that at all? As an organization? The answer is yes, and I find that disappointing. Do you think that there's any chance over the course of this year that they say this just isn't working and approach him? Yes. Because he's clearly not a brooby guy so far. Like I said, his minutes are down. He's skating slower, shooting it not as hard, generating less.

Well, the brooby guys are the start. Like Matthews and Marner just play all the time. Yeah. Right? And Willie to a lesser extent. And then whoever else makes up the things. But I would argue that it's even worse Team A and Team B than it's ever been right now. Like, just how much they're playing.

Think about it. Like, the defense is much better and it's much more spread out, but the forwards, it's never been more Team A, Team B to me. Well, the vision, of course, including the success that they had really early was there was some depth there.

Right? Either Max or McMahon. Holmberg. Holmberg had it that they had really early was there was some depth there right either max or mcmahon homebird homebird had it going there for a while they had rents that exactly and then the fourth line quiet look like matt sundin on the second night of the year hasn't had a contribution i haven't been down on ryan reeves either like that guy in that fourth line at times Saturday night, they were in the offensive zone. They found pucks. They kept things alive. Reeves got the puck back to the point a few times and went to the net.

Reeves is the least of anybody's worries right now. No, they just need to chip in one here or there because they have the odd night where they get scored on. They got to balance that out a little bit. But speaking of those sort of guys, Nick Robertson's coming out tonight. It's a game. Listen, if he's not producing, it's like next man up.

Yeah. And you can only say he's working really hard and he's trying his best. I think I can. I think I can. Well. I can only say he's working really hard and he's trying his best. I think I can. I think I can. Well. I can only go so far. The coach, clip 10 on Nick Robertson and why he's being scratched tonight.

He's been fine. Like, I think Nick, he's worked extremely hard. He's obviously hadn't had much puck luck and, you know, just missed shots and things like that. But, you know, he's done a lot of good things. It's just, you know, with Winnipeg tonight, it's a pretty big team. You know, and he wanted some size in the lineup tonight. Oh, that doesn't work for Nicky.

That's everything. Nick Robertson hears that. Trade me, right? And hang up. And then hang up. Yeah. No, you're not wrong. Because clearly if you can't play him against bigger teams, it's in the coach's mind.

That's not going to go well when it's Boston in round one. That is the ultimate kiss of death for any player to hear. That was actually a really bleak quote. You're just not big enough. To play against this team tonight yeah i mean you look at that jets third line it's one of the best lines in the league right appleton uh lowry and nita writer and i think they're seven and oh in terms of goals for or something in their minutes where does he match up against that he's probably gonna be playing on the third line like

ruby's probably watching the tape with him he's McMahon, Domi, Holmberg. Is that right? Yeah, not great either. Domi down the middle stuff for me. Should we take a break? Yeah. Take a quick break. We'll take a quick break here and plenty more, including Jake. Not our Jake.

Jake McCabe with a brand new contract. We'll talk about that more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays and NFL, the JD Bunkers podcast subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts We're back Real Kipper and born show leaf edition today the toronto maple leafs officially re-upped jake mccabe on a five-year extension with an average annual value of4.51 million.

We were talking about this extension weeks ago. Yep. I figured his marketplace was around $5 million on an open market. So where are you on $4.51? I love it. I love this contract. I think it's great i think like you mentioned on the open market he probably gets more money signs it nice and early um so you

don't have to have that sort of headache and i just think you know we talked about all the things the leafs don't have mccabe is all of those things he is a guy with competitiveness and bite whose wires can cross who kills penalties and runs into people i also think he skates really well and he has more offensive upside. He scored eight times last year. I really like McCabe. I'm comfortable with whatever pair he's on. 4.5?

Nothing but good things to say. What the coach says is exactly how I feel. Clip 12, please, Derek. I think it's great. He's a team-first guy, you know, hard defender, hard to play against. You know, he's, hard to play against. You know, he's the type of D-man you want in your hockey team. Yeah, exactly how I feel.

Like he's just, I don't know, for $4.5 million, I just, you know, I don't know, he's playing 20 minutes a night for them. Like everyone else, I would prefer it wasn't five years long. Well, yeah, but to get him to not go UFA, it's kind of what you do. At this point, do you think Brennan Shanahan or Brad Treeleving care whether it's four or five?

Ain't affecting them, is it? They're either winning or they ain't here. Exactly. How about you? Guess what, boys? Ain't gonna affect us either. If we're doing this show

and he's up for another deal, it would be a miracle. I think he did them a huge favor. Yeah, oh, you do? Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's, again, some guys are willing to do it. Some guys aren't. But he wants to be here.

First of all, he wants to be here. And that's, it's hard to go out there now. And if he leaves and signs, gets another half a million dollars more. The bigger question that the Leafs had was like, okay, who do we get to replace him? Right. Let's say you're going to go to UFA with now,

you know, whatever his four and a half million dollars. TJ Brody, when he came to the Leafs, whatever it was, five years ago, his contract was $5 million per year times four years. He'd have been 31 or something, you know, somewhere around that. That's the type of guy, like, who's that? Who's that? Who's going to sign that deal now?

Ekblad's not that. He's going to be way more money. I just can't think of another defender who's going to be UFA who you would replace him with. So likes Toronto and wants to be here, willing to do it. I understand that this makes them a little bit old on the back end riley ekman larson tan have all here for the next foreseeable future but i don't think that's a good enough reason to not keep a good defenseman

at a good price so you may have to figure something out eventually but i would hope there's a clause in his new contract that says he will stop doing between the legs things below his own red line because he did it against tampa no not against tampa against the blues and he did it again against the bruins on saturday night where he tried to do it between the legs back pass don't do that stop that so we've exhausted the forwards in terms of the big line compared to everywhere else. But where are we now knowing that to your point, Riley, OEL,

McCabe, and Tanev are your guys for the next three years. Like that's, that's it, right? You're, you're basically locked into those guys. Is that,

is that a blue line? Are those four guys ready to lead right now to a stanley cup between now and two or three years from now stanley cup how about the third round kippy okay then then yeah i think higher of that group that i think you do but i'm just asking are you comfortable with those four guys now getting you to the stanley cup because i i look at it and i go not good enough yeah i just i don't i agree with you that you look at they don't have a number one d they don't have a guy where you're like that's the guy game changer you don't have mccarr you don't have headman you don't have quinn hughes you don't have but they haven't had one of those since boria solming right they've literally never had one

in my entire life yeah and they've literally never won since 1967 yeah no that literally might be related my yeah my dad i think was so i i get i get like for me i like mccabe too i'm not saying i wouldn't have signed him at 4.5 because i like what he brings but on a stanley cup team is mccabe more of a third pair guy or a top four guy? No, I think he's not even close to a third pair defenseman. Okay. Not even close. He's much closer to a first pair than a third pair guy for me.

Like he could play with a McCarr or he could play with. I think so, yeah. I do. Listen, I'm really high on Jake McCabe. Maybe I'm not in the, I just like the way he plays, and I think he's one of those guys who seems to be getting better as he calms down and matures a little bit.

I think he can be a little squirrely at times. If I'm looking at the Colorado Avalanche you mentioned there, would he be better than Josh Manson or Samuel Gerrard? I mean, totally different than Samuel Gerrard, right? But in the same conversation? Yeah. Like, in that group?

Like, I think you could play in that group. Oh, it's Manson at four and a half. Four and a half? He's up there. Okay. Yeah, so, but I, you know, it's almost like we take it out on the guys who are here when it's, their deals are fine.

It's just they need. Four years, four and a half. Yeah. They need another, you need a number one guy. Oh, my gosh.... Four years, four and a half. Yeah. They need another... You need a number one guy. Oh, my gosh. But, like, you can't get one now. Right.

How are you going to fit them in unless you move one of the four? Well, yeah. So, after this year, there's no Marner, no Tavares, and the cap goes up. So, suddenly, there's 21 million in players, or 22 million in players, plus the cap up, you're at 27 million. So by next year, they'll get their number one D and they can really contend for a Stanley Cup. I don't know.

I just said, where do you know? You don't get a number one D. You don't go to the number one D store and buy one. You know where you get them? You draft them. That's allowed? And then you wait seven years and then they turn into a number one guy.

And they never have gotten a good draft pick with a defenseman other than Morgan Riley. Or here comes Topi Niemela. No, it's like Topi or Roney are one of those guys. It's like, you know, Lilligren was supposed to be their guy. Sandin was supposed to be the guy. Neither were ever going to be that guy. Yeah, but, I mean, I was sold a bill of goods. I was told they were both pretty good.

So can you... more flashes of Morgan Riley with the go-ahead goal Saturday night, which was like pretty good goal. Yeah, it's a big goal. How about a few more of those? But yeah, a few more of those would be great. I'd like to see him commit to offense a little bit more, but this is like, this craig broovy's dilemma

it's like isn't it defense first yeah and like with all due respect to austin matthews giveaway is that two sneezes now in the last week on our show sammy is it just let her buck into the it was a sneeze i no one would have seen it unless they were watching. It would have been fine. I turned my mic off. I turned away, and you had to just sewer me. Anyway. Maybe I'm just a little jealous.

Maybe I want to break my streak of never sneezing on air in 25 years. Do you look up into those lights? Nothing? No, nothing. Nothing. Okay. With all due respect, the Austin Matthews giveaway. Yes.

I'm not sure if you saw Morgan Riley on the play slide about 40 feet. He looked like he was on a carpet at Wonderland. He slid 40 feet to try to get back into the play and actually, like, completely took him out of the play for the second or third opportunity in front of the net because Dolar's made an unbelievable save. Now, if Morgan stays on his feet, there's a very good chance that maybe Marchand doesn't get

a second or third opportunity in front of the net. And a guy like Morgan at $7 a half million needs to be that guy. Yeah. And we haven't seen it yet this season. No, we haven't. He, he is another one of those guys that seems to be struggling to figure out

which guy does the coach want me to be? Everyone is playing physical and straight lines and, you know, Morgan's never going to be different than the player. He is, you know, he's not a physical defender. He's a good but he backs off and i don't know i like the offensive side of his game i don't think he's ever gonna defend with ferocity i know we're not

supposed to do three on three takes because it's not real hockey but there's something that drove me crazy watching that game was why didn't matthews and marner come off on that offensive zone draw after they'd already been out there i'll tell you bothered me they rolled up but like if was why didn't Matthews and Marner come off on that offensive zone draw after they'd already been out there for a minute? I'll tell you what bothered me. I know they want to keep their guys out there. They're trying to win the game. They've had good chances, but they've been out there already for a while.

It's like pull them off, get somebody else out there, and then maybe get it for the last. It was too long. They were out there too long. And then Matthews' tired brain, defending for a minute and a half, throws a pizza up the middle, and you lose game we're team a i know we get to stay out there as long as we want mr big boy accountability comes in here pull them off they've been out there for a minute i'll tell you about my problem drove me nuts my problem change

is that when they first get on the ice and they first get the puck they go oh it's three on three fun time we can just have it rather than skating and skate on offense three is suck make the d move their feet make their turn if you're not moving fast they stay in front of you and nothing opens up so everyone just has this three and three basketball thing where they pass it around and there's still some guys there's still some guys that could extend their shift a little bit and still have some juice left in them. Austin's not one of them. When that guy hits his wall, he's done. He's done.

He'd been out there for two and a half minutes because that stupid offense. Pull him off. You have no one else who can play. He could have taken a couple strides and created some separation, tired or not. God. All right. Marner's going up to the bench.

And Riley's all, it's just like, Matthew's, that was gross. But like, like I said, tired brain decision where you've been out there

defending three on three, you're not thinking, you just throw one up the middle and it ends up in your net. Let's see what the coach had to say. Oh, yeah? Flip four on what happened. There's someone singing

in the back of this. I don't know, someone down the hall. He says something good here, but there's someone singing. All right. So get ready for that when you listen to this clip. All right. I mean, I thought that this. I don't know, someone down the hall. He says something good here, but there's someone singing. So get ready for that when you listen to this clip. I mean, I thought that we controlled it. You know, we had the puck pretty much, and it was a tough play on Austin.

Like, we've got to support him a little bit better in that play. You know, like, we just kind of, we left him alone there, and it's just, it was a mistake, you know, by everybody out there. And, you know, but, you know, know, but we had two good looks in overtime. So, I mean, it's important. The points are important, right? So, you know, we want to be a good overtime team. We want to be a good three-on-three team because they're crucial points.

We've got to support them a little better. Yeah. Great play, Austin. I'm just saying, though, to your point, like, how about, like, don't stay out there that long. And how about if you don't have support, don't blindly throw it up the middle of your own zone. I threw it up, and then I saw no one was there.

Have a look. Listen, again, like, it's just not Morgan that could have got back into the play quicker. Like, Austin could have jumped in there. Oh, yeah. If... Tired. got back into the play quicker. Like, Austin could have jumped in there. Oh, yeah. If Stolarz made a save that we should have been talking about for three weeks, right? It wasn't.

It was. He had time still. Matthews also had time to come back. But guess what? He was cooked. He was done. He was fried because of the length of the shift. But that's a – how about instead of supporting him a little better,

how about like a second effort to get back in the play after your goalies made it, two spectacular saves, and it was the third effort that actually went in. So he was surprised that the save was made. Just didn't have any juice left. That's exactly what he thought it was. Right. But that's, I think, the accountability that you're looking for now. Yeah.

I don't know what Austin had to say about it, but it's... Not much. Yeah. Not much. I put it in there for... I don't know what the Leafs record is in Winnipeg or how many goals Austin's had in Winnipeg, but I always have a feeling like it's good. It's really good.

Yeah? Yeah. I mean, hella looks pretty good. Would it not be just like the Leafs to win tonight? I totally think they're winning tonight. Well, especially because it's on Amazon, and the Leafs last week on Amazon played the best game of the Matthews-Marner era ever on Amazon.

So tonight, and then everybody will be like, oh, they can't have it on Sportsnet anymore because it was on Amazon. They only went on it, blah, blah, blah, the broadcast, blah, blah, blah. Oh, hell, I can't wait. Two or three goals. I know Patrick Liney is not there anymore, which still is regarded as one of the best nights. One of the best regular season games ever hat tricks was it oh yeah i actually smashed my remote that night oh the line eot yeah i came home from watching the jays losing the alcs to the cleveland then indians and i came

home and catch the second period on of that game and they were up i was cruising i was having a good time line i should score i broke my remote. That's reasonable. Good reaction. Thank you. Thank you. I know this is only, what, the 10th game, but is it more important to what you see optically than it is the actual score? Or is this just about finding a way to get two points? No, if they get filled in tonight and sneak out some stupid 2-1 win, we're killing them tomorrow.

Like, I would like to see... I think this is the crux of our conversation today eke out some stupid 2-1 win, we're killing them tomorrow. Like, I would like to see... I think this is the crux of our conversation today that I think I would take away is that they're in an identity crisis. That the coach has a way that he wants them to play. They have shown they can play that way and have success, but they don't want to play that way.

In 23 career games against Winnipeg Jets, he has 14 goals, 17 assists for 31 points. More assists than goals. The Dishon Magician. And in 35 games against Montreal Canadiens, he has 27 goals. And how many assists? 18. Negative.

And I think his highest output, I mean, against the, boy, the Sens, he just kills the Sens too. Anyways, we're just going to, guess what? He scores a lot against everybody because he's on a pace to have more goals than the only. Are the Winnipegs coming off a road trip too, are they not? Can they catch him a little vulnerable? Can they catch him a little not ready to come back home and continue the streak? Or do you think

they smell a record here? I mean, in all the years we've been doing this show, how many times have the Leafs lost three straight or even four straight? I mean, I can't remember them losing four straight. That's the one thing about Sheldon's teams. They snap back pretty quick. They do have a way

to end nights like we've seen this past week. I expect them to win tonight. Alright. Got some money on that one? I don't know why. I think I will. Oh, listen i i think it would be totally the least zero value come back in their character they're minus 115 and then our 150

minus 115 then sammy's back all the way go back no no no hey all right listen i'm that's your game i'm even keel baby no no no they really they struck me all right we're just warming up here as we get into our national hour. Sean Reynolds, Sportsnet reporter in Winnipeg, will join us to help tee us up. Don't go away.