Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Improving Despite Results

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' overtime loss to the Bruins on Saturday, a complete performance despite the loss, a bounce-back effort from Matthews, Nylander starting to slow down and whether Boston truly is as good as their record says. Then, ahead of a gap in the schedule, they discuss how to employ the goalie tandem before the break. They are joined by Hockey Night in Canada's Craig Simpson (34:10), who shares his thoughts on Ryan Reaves' usage so far this season, his concern level for the Leafs' wins inside of regulation and evaluates how wide open the Atlantic Division will be this year.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

hoping everybody had a great weekend i think we did yeah i noticed you guys brought me gifts well that's amazing i noticed there's three so i assume it's from our bosses to the three of us see what you got me yeah sorry heartbreak i got you for a heartbreak that's not a good start to the week welcome to the real kipper and born show nick kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo and jimmy willie j will in. Will in the house. In the house. It's the real Kipper and Bourne show. Always on Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet Plus

from 4 to 6. And wherever you download us on your favorite pods. Texas at 590, 590 as well and we'll get to some of your questions. Hopefully they're good ones for our boy sammy as the toronto maple leafs in the dying seconds find another way to get to an overtime yeah that is now

can we say jb out of everything we saw last week that was the best look at the toronto maple leaf saturday night versus the boston bruins yeah that one kipper made it and even 50 of their games on the season their 11th overtime showing in 22 outings which is the highest ever um obviously they're not going to make it uh through the season with a 50 rate but boy that's crazy and yeah you know i think it's important to note that previously i would say people would say we were hard on a team that was winning. I think today might be the complete flip of the script. I don't know how you felt about the game, but I thought they were really good in a game they lost.

So we're on the other side of things today. Safe to say it was a fun game to watch. Enjoyed it. And you talk about dying seconds. I'm dying of heat stroke in this game. Yeah, that's something we should probably address before the show starts. I'm trying not to let it get to me. Like, I'm just trying to think about how I'm not really uncomfortably hot.

But I am dying. I know. I have a really thin white t-shirt that I'm going to be wearing by the end of the show. I really thought we had it. We called the truce with the maintenance man. So, we're going to come back. And there's a couple of Raptors jerseys over there. All three of us are going to be wearing sleeveless jerseys.

Either that or I'm going to cut the sleeves off your zigzag jersey. I hung it terribly today, too. Okay, good. Good. Well, I want to make it abundantly clear. It is unacceptably hot in here right now. If we're leaking on camera, just so you know. We'll know why. Love the game Saturday. For the most part. Make it abundantly clear. It is unacceptably hot in here right now. If we're leaking on camera, just so you know.

We'll know why. Yeah, love the game Saturday. For the most part, not as much leaking out of the Leafs as we saw prior, even with an overtime win that we saw earlier in the week. Yeah, Joseph Wohl, really good. A couple goals maybe he didn't love. You know, the one he thinks he caught towards the end of the game he didn't love and maybe the Pasternak shot, but otherwise I thought

he was really good. 11 shots against in overtime. He stopped the first 10. Can't ask much more than that out of a goaltender. And the biggest story of the game to me, Kip, was a guy that I wrote about on Friday, Austin Matthews. We had been basically saying, what the heck is going on here?

Really, really good. You know, the type of showing where we had become accustomed to seeing again. Best game of his year, you think? I do, yes. Yeah, he was really good in those first two games where he had back-to-back hat tricks. It wasn't just the goals. I remember the conversations we had coming in here talking about oh my god the 60 goal guys

back and he's had big lulls but you know on a saturday night against a premier uh opponent to go out there and look like he did in that game i think it would probably be his best game this season there was moments just on the forecheck where he's moving his feet moving his feet and puck goes the other way he stops and he gets back hard and i was like okay he's skating tonight that's that's good so if we're going to go to our first uh kippers clipper of the week uh we'll break this up in uh in two first was sheldon keith prior to saturday night talking about austin matthews and then we'll go to what to his comment after saturday night so let's's play the first clip one from Sheldon before his big effort Saturday night.

No, he's going to do better in that area. And that's just it. Don't focus on the end result and get concerned with anything other than doing the things that allow you to have success individually and for us as a team, most importantly. Austin's a driver for our team. When he's going, we're going.

It's usually the case. So like our overall team game and structure, the consistency in which we execute, we need Austin to drive in those areas. And if that happens, whether he scores or not, we're going to be in a really good place to control playing and have a chance to win the game. Is that the closest we've come to calling out Austin? Yeah.

I don't think that's close to it. That is. Yeah. And I think the question was, have you seen enough from him off the time? And he said, no, he hasn't. And he probably told, would you imagine, that they had a meeting and he probably told would you imagine that they had a

meeting and he probably told him that he might do that or he had done that like there's no way he just does that blindside them i don't think do you like is he paying attention to what the coach is saying on saturday morning there has to have been countless video sessions i think over the past what nine games without a even strength goal yeah that's a lot it's a lot and it's a second streak this season he had gone seven uh previous i don't think he said anything that wasn't already addressed at some point in the dressing room either through video or through uh normal conversation between a coach and a player yeah and there's some quotes um that i've seen that keith had about him about how he had talked to austin and said you need to be a driver you need to be a shoot first guy for

us don't worry about he actually says don't worry about like setting up other people let's just get you getting pucks on the net austin on friday night or saturday night 14 shot attempts and 11 landed on net well the thing to me is like talking about that stuff in the dressing room versus saying it to the media are two extremely different things. So it must have gotten and we hadn't heard him do that at all. Right. He hadn't called out Matthews really at all this year. So it must have gone to a point where he was like, all right, I'm going to try this.

And he went out there. The elephant in the room, the media was heading towards this place. I think Sheldon probably on Saturday just got a little ahead of it. Why? Just be proactive on it. You know, you've been around long enough, Sheldon, where you know that those type of questions were going to come on Austin. Marner came out of his funk with his hat trick.

This was only heading towards what's wrong with 34. I thought Sheldon did a pretty good job of getting ahead of it. Timing-wise, well done for sure. And I also think if he doesn't do that, if they ask him, like, hey, do you need more out of Matthews? And he goes, no, we're good. Everyone else is like, what is he doing? Like, how protected do these guys need to be?

So that was a pretty good call. We have a follow-up, his response to Austin's game, which is a pretty good one, clip four there. This is Sheldon talking about Austin Matthews uh austin's game which is a pretty good one clip four there this is sheldon talking about austin matthews after saturday night's game i thought he was a beast out there tonight i thought he was all over the puck i thought he attacked the net he shot the puck um obviously two huge goals for us so like yeah i thought he was excellent there you go and i don't know you You're the numbers guy.

What do they look like in terms of puck possession? Because he had the puck a lot more that we've seen in a long time. Yeah, that whole line was really good. Willie was back going again pretty good. They controlled all the opportunities in there. That was a much better night. I think it was the night before we looked at their numbers. We were like, what is going on here here no shot attempts in a period i thought a

big bounce back game for nize like yeah to me i you know willie was good i still don't think willie is how many shots they end up with 20 shots that line yeah together i think yeah so i still don't think willie's full willie since i came back from sweden it was a step in the right direction i think there was a moment with Nyes missed an opportunity, then went down, and it was the Shattenkirk gets in behind him and scores, and I was like, oh, you know, this could be whatever, but he did otherwise. Could also be the jinx that Justin put on Willie,

who said he's going to fall flat on his face when he gets back from Sweden. I actually got the opposite text about Matthews because I wrote how Matthews is ineffective and then he goes out and lights it up. People are like, okay, well, way to go. Well, you're, I mean, you had two calls this year. I mean, you had the Ovi call and then you had the Willie call.

Those are two pretty good ones so far. Well, hopefully Willie gets it figured out. We don't want to watch much more. Great observation. Are you guys kind of surprised of, I don't know if the term is taking his foot off the gas pedal at all. Like is Willie's drop from Sweden back to where his issues were before this season in terms of at times looking inconsistent or not looking like he's fully engaged are we back there

is that what you think i'm asking you i i don't i think every player over the course of 82 games has it just doesn't go in all the time you know and he had the breakaway that kind of started the slump i believe in slump starters by the way like that moment he hits the three posts against chicago and all of a sudden it just won't go for him i believe i think that and it's funny you mentioned that because in the same conference where he was asked about matthews they asked him about willie and seeing his game and he brought that exact same thing up he's like well if that goes in after it hits three posts he's the hero again we're not talking about it and it goes yeah so it's like i think there's something to that but i think there's been a dip i think it's hard to say there hasn't been yeah and is it besides bad luck is

there like a lack of intensity in his game right now that we've seen that we didn't see earlier in the season yeah maybe i mean early in the season there it was there's some like i don't call it desperation but like he just kept going kept hunting the puck and i don't call it desperation, but he just kept going, kept hunting the puck. And I don't know, do you feel like that's... I do feel like he's taken his foot off the gas pedal somewhat. I don't expect it to last anywhere near the stretches that he had earlier in his career. I think he's mature, mature than ever before in terms of realizing what's at stake here,

including his contract. And I don't see him fading for a long stretch here. Yeah, which is a good thing. Do you want to zoom out and listen to Keith on the whole overview? Yeah. We can kind of jump off from there. So let's listen to clip two on the overview. I thought it was a hard played hockey

game by both teams. Not a lot between the two teams. Two teams playing hard. Referees let the teams play. You know, not your typical early December hockey game. It's a tough game out there. It's fast

and competitive. I thought our guys on right there fought their way back and got us another point. In about, what, 25 minutes, we're going to have Craig Simpson, former NHLer, Stanley Cup champion, of course, Hockey Night in Canada analyst. He'll help us break

down what he saw Saturday night. So, looking forward to Craig coming on the show. As far as Sheldon's overall view, anything that stood out for you outside of that? Yeah, I think he talks about the two teams and like good game, whatever. I don't know.

What were your thoughts on the Bruins? You know, I just, they look okay. They've got a couple really good players. They're 17-4-3 right now, like first in the league. Record or no record, they're not the team to beat. Yeah. See, I kind of feel the same way. Florida is.

In the division. Yep. Ooh, I did not see that curveball coming. I was way ahead of that one, then swinging a miss on my part. For you. Well, I guess, like like i'm looking at the other division like a colorado still for me is i'm just talking about the atlantic in the atlantic yeah i would say florida's a better team tampa yeah tampa's reeling in florida yeah florida is a team that you know the leafs funny enough can be ahead of them they're ahead of them in points percentage,

but they just do look like a more complete team. And I think we've had a couple of examples, either Billy Jaffe from the Boston Bruins or Andy Brickley from the Boston Bruins on our show earlier. Beersy on Friday. Beersy on Friday. And everybody real consistent on the goaltending being outstanding all year long. And maybe that has a lot to do with where they are in the standings.

Yeah. I mean, they have this seven point cushion on Florida, but it is, it's just over a quarter of the season in here. I would be surprised if they don't, you know, they, they want to, or sorry, lost a few games before the three game winning streak here. I wouldn't be surprised if someone was nipping at their heels pretty soon and they came back to the pack a little bit. Because I just look at their forward lineup and I go, eh, okay. Like, they got a great start from Matthew. We're not sure.

Poitras? Poitras. Poitras. Poitras. Poitras. We're going with that. He was, yeah, you know, like, I don't know. He's fine.

But he's not, to me, an impactful player for them. Marchand obviously gets their winner and scores a hat-trick last night, so they got him rolling a little bit. But really, it seems like Pasternak and outside of that, pretty okay forward group. Okay, yeah. But Allmark is a difference maker. He is.

If Boston's going anywhere, it's got to be with Allmark, Swayman, and that blue line. So I compare them to the Toronto Maple Leafs, and you take Toronto's forwards over Boston's all day long, would you not? Yes, totally agree. No question. I mean.

But you would take Boston's defense all day long over the Toronto Maple Leafs. Unquestionably. Of course. So. Together they'd be a pretty good team. We could make a mean one. Pick your poison.

Yeah. I mean, what do you know, playoffs go. Can Joseph Wall hold his own? So Joseph Wall, I mean, I know I mentioned a couple bad goals, but gosh, he looks good, doesn't he? Solid like that. Overtime, he makes big saves. I just think he needs reps.

He needs experience. He needs to feel like he's less in Fantasy Island and more about, hey, this is my job, and I'm the the guy and I'm coming to work every day. He's not there yet. I wonder if you have to go Samson off though, and terrible timing. Cause you only have one game leading up till Saturday night. There's just the one Thursday night game.

You'd hate to have wall now sit a week, but well, I'm not a believer that you throw everything, the kitchen sink at joseph wall now so to your point it you may have to work in sam samsonov as early as thursday against ottawa i'm thinking yeah oh he absolutely has to start that and plus you lost so you can say and think about when's the last time samson have played it's gonna be forever yeah let the guy feel it the only way you don't put samsonov in i think as early as this week

is that you really feel like you may go in another direction oh yeah like as in i don't know whether or not you want to try to upgrade that between now and and um and march or april but that that'll be challenging in itself but you have to be convinced that you do not believe in Samsonov anymore and I don't think the Leafs are there yet right so you would think that you'd use his money and something else to get another goalie I think there's yeah Alan better than Samsonov uh I don't know. Not enough for me to do something. But, you know, I think last year he was really good last year, but there were still a lot of moments throughout the season where we're like, ah.

Listen, there's more to it than that, and I'm not here to tell you that I have any insight on this, but there has to be a healthy and good environment for Joseph Wall to progress here and develop. And, you know, if Joseph Wall starts running with this, is Samsonov going to be that type of supportive guy who can provide him with some knowledge and some information and help him build?

Or will he be one of those guys that is secretly cheering against him so he can get the net back? Well, it's funny. You watch Allmark and Swayman, and their support of each other is uncommon, right? Like big hugs, best buddies. Well, it's almost like it's too much. Yeah, it's like, you know.

Are you sure? Yeah. Like, you want to hate him a little bit, no? Well, I don't know what hate, but you can at least want some, you know, wouldn't mind seeing a guy catch his foot in the odd hurdle. Yeah. But, yeah, no, it's interesting if samsonov is maybe not in love with sitting there watching joseph wall become the you know 50 game guy well he's a 32 game guy what would be the ideal thing though instead of

samson samsonov because you still need a guy that's gonna play right like it's not gonna be that you're like joseph wall is the starter and he's going to play 60% of the games from now or 70% of the games from here on out. You're still going to need a guy that's good enough, but he's going to be a veteran that supports. Like, it's kind of a bit of a golden ticket here that you're looking for. Are we back on Jake Allen talk?

I don't know. What about Jack Campbell? Is he available? Yeah. Oh, he's really available. In a perfect world, I mean, I know Jonathan Quick's gotten lit up lately but that type of guy that absolutely understands that he is just there to get this guy

mentally physically emotionally ready for the playoffs james reimer those type of guys i don't know about j Reimer. I'd want someone with a little bit more playoff pedigree. Yeah, okay, fair enough. All right, well, that's interesting because I think you're saying something. Yeah. Now, overtime. We've got to have a discussion on overtime.

Dun, dun, dun. Okay. Some bad visuals out there, boys. I say you guys know your your first one is david kemp taking the face off can't stand it my first one uh my final observation is the play willie makes where he's last man back and it's three on three it's so stupid we have to talk about it so much because they play so much of it. I know it's not real hockey. You just can't make that play. It's not real hockey, but you can't give away a point either.

It's just like, why are you doing that there? Because live by the sword, die by the sword. And you have been slaying dragons with that sword. And all of a sudden, if it impales you once in a while, you go,

well, we're killing a lot of dragons in the process making those decisions. I agree, but even for him. That was a bad one. That one was a bad one. This is not. I actually like the play he made. That's not the case here. It's just that when you have guys who take chances, sometimes it bites you. That's the math of chance taking.

And more often than not, you win. The other visual. I'd just like to thank you, everyone in the world, for sending me the video. I saw it. We saw it. Saw Tavares parked at the far blue. Kip, what did you think of that moment? I am 100% defending John Tavares.

Oh, no. We were all. 100. We all have the same thought. But I will say this. I'm with you. I will say this. Defending John Tavares Oh no 100 But I will say this I'm not sure it's the same reasons As yours JB Okay Do you want to lead?

No you lead So I played a similar type of game to John Tavares Which in that well A poor poor poor man's version A broke ass man's version, a broke-ass man's version of recognizing that in 3-3 in that moment, he can't help on defense.

He is too far gone to be able to contribute in that moment defensively. Where is he too far gone? Where he's waiting for Willie to not turn the puck over at the far blue. He's with 10 seconds left in overtime. He's not getting back in time to help. However, if that wall save gets made and it hits riley stick next he's gone and so he's thinking okay this is an instant i can't help that way maybe i can go get us one this way

yeah there i disagree with you okay because by the time the save is and then it it goes into the side of the net, and then I think it was Morgan that overplayed it again, that gave Pasternak a second chance, he could have gotten back. No chance. I do believe on the second attempt, by the time it got to Marchand,

he probably could have gotten back. The reason why I defend him is because he had zero gas in the tank. He was spent. And if you went back a little further back, he was on the ice. He had a defensive zone faceoff where Sheldon, and I'm going to put some heat on Sheldon here. There's two minutes and 10 seconds on a defensive zone faceoff with John Tavares and Willie.

2.10 left on the clock. From 2.10 on to zero, how long was Tavares on the ice in those 210? I mean, presumably 210. No. About $1.50. Okay. $1.55. Okay.

That's a lot. Mitch Marner, out of 210, how long was he on the ice in the last 210? 37 seconds. 23. Okay. There was an offensive zone faceoff where he pulls off Matthews and Marner on a shift that was 23 seconds left to put Tavares and Nylander on with 53 seconds. Can someone explain to me why?

No. I wish I could. Remember they gasped and Matthews is a hard 23 seconds? I have I could. I mean, remember they gasped and Matthews is a hard 23 seconds? I have no idea. But all I know is the most conscientious. I guess because Tavares, he wants to win the draw and Tavares is good on draws would be a reason. That's pretty good too. Yeah.

No. Okay. No, not good. You want me to use the best face off, man? It just made no sense to me. Yeah. Okay. And if the worst case scenario is that you go into a shootout,

hey, Joseph Wall, pretty good. Yeah. Last little while. I just, I don't understand how you could have left Tavares out there that long to try to come back. Yeah. And just, like, if the whole idea was, hey, John, go out there and try to win the game

but is is i assume that's where that's where you guys so it's like get willie back on he's the guy who ends this 23 seconds oh and he ended your most conscientious forward out of your core four is mitch marner how is he not on the ice in the last yeah i don't know i don't know. So I look at John, and John had nothing left to come back. Sure. And, you know, my defense that he is thinking about, okay, I can't help that way. Maybe I can get us one the other way, is not a good defense.

It's not a good defense at all. You should, you know, mentally, all right, I should err on the side of defensive structure and come back and be on the right side of things and all that. But there are people who are clipping the ISO cam of it and going, look at $11 million worth of effort. It's not effort.

He can't get there. He can't get there. He couldn't get there because he was left in a position not to get there. Yeah. In my opinion, anyways. I don't even care about that over time. I know that's flippant, but like,

Willie, I'm not killing him for the turnover, even though it's bad. I'm not killing John. I just think they've played so much three-on-three overtime recently. Yeah. And a lot of the way that, I mean, they're playing their four guys the whole period.

Yeah. Like, every overtime. Well, they put a Domi and Robertson once. But they stopped that. They stopped that now. Like, I mean, I've watched so much three-on-three that I have memorized their rotations. Yeah they still we did get out there not not in this one no it was it was it was gregor yeah gregor and matthews went out for one i missed

that yeah so i don't know like it's stupid to get bent out of shape about it but there's a lot of stuff during those three on threes that are easy to get bent out of shape about yeah how's that sound like it's like the visuals of like them not bending their knees in the defensive zone and them just kind of poking around. I know that it's hard, but it's hard to watch when you don't have the puck. Okay, let's go to Sheldon talking about his number one goalie, Joseph Wall. It's a game with no margin for error. He's standing his ground. He's played a with no margin for error, you know,

and he's standing his ground. He's played a lot of hockey here now, obviously, and he's had no easy nights. So, yeah, tremendous growth for him through this week. A very difficult week, but he stood his ground all the way through, so thrilled for him. The Pasternak shot, really, I mean, tough. He's a shooter.

He's a shooter, right? Not many players in the league make that shot. A little deflection maybe, but probably wanted that one, Kippy. Yeah, you're talking about one of the best shooters in the world coming in 1,000 miles an hour and Morgan Riley and some other guys at times giving up the blue line way too easy. And it's a bit of an issue. Right. It's the same as Seattle, the one on Riley, right?

Riley backs in too deep. And I think it was Tolvanen who shot it over. Riley's spent over a month now playing 26, 27 minutes a night. Don't tell me that he did not look tired Saturday night. This is the exact case why when we complained about too much ice time for guys it doesn't happen in a moment where a guy's just like i'm really tired but your gaps are a little worse or worse or you're not quite on the forecheck or whatever and riley seems to have more moments where he's protecting against having or

you try to block a shot and break your thumb and you're in surgery. Mark Giordano. No, I'm serious. When you're overspent, you start making mistakes. It's harder to move yourself to get out of the way. That fast twitch is not as readily available. But Gio's not trying to get out of the way. He's actively trying to get

in the way. Right. And his finger happened to take it. But still, sometimes you're like, dogged and you're like, I just can't make the extra whatever. Or I'm not closing up fast enough. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's their decor in general, I think, is a little bit sagged off,

because the best guys play too much and are tired, and the worst guys aren't very good. So that's where they're at on that. Positive stuff. We did get a max Domi goal. And a great finish. And a great finish at that. And a very nice celebration

i believe it was 17 years since his dad's last goal as a leaf ty domey's last goal was april 1st 2006 max domey's december 2nd 2023 so whatever that is 16 and a half 17 years pretty cool really cool and you know what i don't know if i said it on the show yet but i have liked him for like weeks now. I just, I like him more as a player the more I watch him play. Yeah, yeah. And I think that if you kind of move him around, even if you move a few pieces around him,

I think he could comfortably stay there. Yeah. He makes some plays. Maybe sometimes it's Yarncroft and Robertson, although I don't see him and Robertson together to start a playoff round on the third line. And that's not taking away anything from Nick Robertson because I think actually he's done a decent job of not looking out of place most nights.

Yeah, and I like him too. I don't know. Like, I don't like the line, but individually, I've liked Robertson too. And on that goal that he scored, I love the decision by Jarnkrok to pass it to Robertson instead of Domi. Because it just opened up the whole two-on-one.

If he had have gone to Domi, Robertson was kind of on the half boards, kind of out of the play a little bit, but it just opened up the ice perfectly foron-one. If you had have gone to Domi, Robertson was kind of on the half boards, kind of out of the play a little bit, but it just opened up the ice perfectly for Domi to come in. And Domi skated. He skated. He's his best when he's skating.

He created some separation. He made a nice little play. And good on Domi for finishing that and good on Robertson for getting it over to him because it wasn't an easy pass to make. Receives it and goes backhand. You know, we didn't spend a whole lot on friday last friday kind of teeing up the the marchand the boston coming back in after the episode that knocked

out lilligran and put him in a cast yeah we did find uh ryan reeves. He took the penalty early on Matthew Pontreth. It's an iffy call at best. If it's a bigger, stronger player on their side, he probably doesn't get a penalty. Big fish eating the little fish. But please tell me in the first round of the playoffs, that is not a penalty. I thought, I mean, I thought it was a penalty.

It's a steamboat and a penalty. I thought, I mean, I thought it was a penalty. It's a steamboat and a half. He drove him numbers first straight to the boards with the puck gone. But Sammy, he sees he's going to get hit and he turns his numbers to him. I legitimately had no problem with them calling a penalty. I had no problem with them doing it.

I'd rather him take the penalty than work it off. That's his job. That's what he's getting paid to do. And he's like, that's not how you take a hit. Well, he was just probably scared. I also agree. It's like, hey, you can't really hit a guy hard into the glass in his numbers. But I thought that's a little bit on the Bruins player there too.

Victim blame, he's not great. Here I am. The other positive, if we're going to keep pushing a positive narrative, is the PK. I think 21 out of 22, one we're going to keep pushing a positive narrative, is the PK. I think 21 out of 22, one of the best. How many? It's mid-month. No, even earlier.

Yeah. So that in itself is a good sign. They settled into pairs of, I think, is it, who's playing with Marr, Kampf and Marner, and then Yarncroft going out with Gregor next, which is good. A little bit of speed, a lot of effort on that pair, and then and then you know old Nyes and Matthews can get a little chunk or even Willie at times so and that good play has got them all the way up to 18th is that right 18th yeah they were way down there yeah they were terrible for a while but yeah power play

scuffling a bit though yeah it's gone the other way but did we play keith on max domi no we didn't let's have a quick listen huge for him uh and a big one uh so yeah he's he's done well for us he's found ways to to contribute in different ways obviously and he's made some plays to make others look good so it's great for him to have that moment there you go yeah i think if he can just find a nice balance between not giving up shots on goal and not overpassing or simplifying his game a little bit more i think he could really lock in a good spot right there i'm fine with max domi if he's good defensively he doesn't turn pucks over to his own end. I don't need to hear his name every night. He can have two nights where he doesn't do

whatever, and then he breaks a game open and makes a play. They just need someone in the bottom half of their lineup that can make a play, so I'm fine with that. You don't want him trading chances and taking chances to make those happen, but yeah, he's been pretty steady in that regard lately, so I guess I've liked it.

For a guy that scored his first goal in December, I would say they're actually getting pretty good value on the $3 million, which is pretty hard to say. Yeah, they're getting about value, which is reasonable. Before we go to break, the 2024 Rogers NHL All-Star Game will be expanded to a three-day event with the NHL All-Star Thursday at Scotiabank Arena featuring the Tim Hortons NHL All-Star Player Draft, the NHL Alumni Man of the Year,

and honoring the 1967 Maple Leafs and the Canadian Tire PWHL 3-on-3 Showcase. Tickets to the NHL All-Star Thursday go on sale Tuesday, December 5th at 10 a.m. Eastern Time on Ticketmaster. I believe that's tomorrow, fellas, at 10 a.m. Eastern Time. So you can catch all the action,

including the Rodgers NHL All-Star Game, right here on sportsnet that's got a boy sammy okay we're gonna go to break as we mentioned earlier craig simpson former national hockey league stanley cup champion current analyst on hockey night in canada we'll get his thoughts on what he saw saturday night out of the boston bruins and we'll also ask him about austin matthews and his streaky season so far. That and more when we're back on Real Kipper and Bourne. Fresh views on everything in the National Football League. It's the Fan Checkdown with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Kipper, it's Justin Bourne. It's Adam McKee. mckibrio's justin bourne sam mckee really in-depth conversation off the air that we'd like you to join in right now okay what does the rollback mean in golf like what is that what's going on with the golf ball physical equipment change basically golf courses golfers are hitting it too long courses are having to be too long. They take up more property. They need more water. So they're rolling back the ball.

So you're going to hit it five or 10 yards less far. I don't like that. I'll hit it 205 instead of 220. And away we go. But you know, it's the same for everyone. Courses can be a little smaller. It's the same challenge.

But there's no rollback on our egos. No, it's true. But I think, I forget who tweeted about this, but they said, if your expectation is 200 or 300, you just want to hit it a few yards farther than usual or farther than your buddies or whatever. So. I don't care.

It just changed your expectation. More excuse to play from the white instead of the blues. Well, and more people should do that. Yes. Agreed. So this has been Golf Talk. Alright, we got Craig Simpson on the line or are we waiting for him? Oh, we got him.

I hear him. Oh my goodness. Let's go to the expert. Can you do anything for my short game? Forget about the long ball. You probably swing a little harder at it. Yeah. Well, the good news is we don't have to go as deep into the woods to find it. That's exactly right.

It'll speed up play. How are you, Simmer? I'm doing great. How are you guys? Good. Let's get your thoughts Saturday night because it was a marquee matchup. And if I'm not mistaken, both teams do not play each other again until March, which is kind of disappointed. If I'm not mistaken, both teams do not play each other again until March,

which is kind of disappointing. But the Leafs coming off the loss of Lilligren and Marchand and maybe some ill feelings towards them. How did it play out for you? I don't really think that was part of the story really at all. I think maybe part of the reason why Reeves played, I heard you guys talking earlier about the early penalty. That put Reeves on the defensive, and as the game goes along, he gets out of the shuffle again.

So it's another problem when you're trying to use him as your physical presence. You guys all know, you get into a tough playoff matchup. There's no way that Sheldon Keefe's going to be able to use him in that role. So, you know, he spots in and out of the lineup and gets to play. I don't think there was really an opportunity to do anything out of sorts in retribution. I just think that, you know, to me, the game was an interesting one because I usually like the Boston-Toronto games

because they're open and there's good energy and there's usually lots of chances. I thought it was a little bit telling that I thought anyways, I don't know how you guys felt, it was sort of a non-event game early on. There weren't a lot of great chances. I think the Pasternak goal kind of put the Leafs back on their heels a little bit. He's one of the few guys that can make that kind of shot, and it kind of rattles you when a guy scores on the top of the circles

with a quick little lister. So I don't think – I would have liked to have seen a game that you know is a big one, that you have such a good rivalry and history with the Bruins, that it might have been one that brought out, you know, a strong offensive start for the Leafs. But I thought they played a protective game and maybe a cautious game. And that might be just part of how you have to play in these tight matchups against really top teams.

You know, maybe they don't feel they're the team that can take over a game on home ice like that. I would have liked to have seen a little bit more than that. But like they've been doing lately, they stayed alive, they battled through. And I thought Sheldon's comments after were, you know, Boston's a hard team to possess the puck against. It's a hard team to get open ice against. And you know that you're going to be in a battle for

loose pucks in the corners at the blue lines, you know, outside your own line. I remember mentioning a couple of times there was numerous times where there's five guys around the puck all battling and whacking sticks and trying to get

an opportunity to pull the puck out and make a play and there quite, weren't that many opportunities coming out of those kind of plays. Right. You know, Simerson, what are your thoughts on where the Leafs are at? Like, I look at their last 10, they're 6-2-2. You know, they're 12-6 overall. They're 6-36, winning all these nice stats.

But they're a plus-two goal differential team with five regulation wins. You know, what are your thoughts on where the Leafs are at compared to what their record says they are? Well, you know, the five regulation wins are a little troubling when that's tied for second last in the league. So, you know, you have to be wary of that because the three-on-three or the shootout is a little bit of a crapshoot. So you might go through a stretch.

If you're continuing having to go to overtime, you might lose five in a row, and all of a sudden it's a different story. But I do think – I said to Sheldon right at the beginning of the year, I thought, you know, is this a year that, you know, maybe you're going to have to find a way to win some games and you might not have your A game going right from the start. You've got a lot of new guys to integrate and i thought last year well they only had two times last year guys where they

went consecutive games without getting a point and that's that's a pretty consistent 82 games they had they had one stretch where they went oh two and two but they still you know won in overtime lost in overtime lost in regulation lost in overtime lost in regulation lost in overtime lost in regulation so you're still getting two points out of those four games and with that you never really deal with you know internal adversity where guys are struggling and they have to find a way to win games when they're struggling i mean you look at playoffs and that's all anybody is concerned about and worried about. You know, the adversity comes, and how are you going to deal with it when you know, man, this loss is bigger than any loss we would have had

in the regular season? And sometimes, as you know, Nick, you don't always have your A game, right? Like, you're going to have nights where your top guys aren't quite going. So how do you pull it out of the fire? So, you know, Justin, for nothing else, this has been a stretch where you could say they haven't had their A game. They haven't had the perfect game or a great defensive effort coupled with a great offensive effort in the same 60 minutes.

But it might be something that you learn how to win some games when you're not playing well. And show me a stanley cup champion team that hasn't had to go through that in the course of the playoffs to get through a series or get through a game where they were bad early and they found a way to come back and win so you know if you're the glass half full guy i think you look at it and say these little lessons along the way of how to stay in a game when you're not playing well, how to come back when maybe it's not your star four guys that are bringing the comeback to fruition.

And they might be lessons that they're learning early on. I still think, obviously, Keith says they've got to put that five-on-five game, as you said, to a better level where they've got to be a plus 20,, 20 plus at the end of the year on five on five. But I think it's good lessons learned. And it's finding a way to be comfortable being uncomfortable. I know a lot of guys have used that terminology, but, you know, there's going to be games that you got to find a way to win when your game isn't on and your top guys aren't the ones driving. And they've had quite a few of those.

And to their credit, their record isn't that bad considering all those little ups and downs that they've had this early part of the season. We're talking to Craig Simpson, two-time Stanley Cup champion and Hockey Night in Canada analyst. So outside of the obvious, the two goals out of austin matthews what did you see craig saturday night that we haven't really seen in the last couple of weeks well i i just think you know there was a number of times i i always look at matchups and say

you know how is sheldon gonna handle a certain matchup against some pretty effective lines i mean the the pasternak is a guy that every time he's on the ice, you have to have a look. You got to make sure that you're covered off. And for nothing else, you know, two guys, Simone Benoit and William Lagasin, I thought that was a growth game. I thought they both had some really difficult matchups

that you didn't shy away from. I heard you talking before about how much, you know, Morgan Riley's playing. And even at times, I get worried that Jake McCabe gets extended a little too hard, too. You know, he's a good player, but he's not a 25, 26-minute guy. And so you had to have times in that game where you had a D pairing or a combination of a D pairing where they had to have times in that game where you had a D pairing or a combination of a D pairing where they had to have really difficult matchups. And I was coming into this today thinking, look back at the last two Stanley Cups.

And, you know, the Florida Panthers getting there, you had guys like Josh Mahura, Gustav Forsley, even Mark Stahl kind of along the lines of Giordano, who battled hard and got you all the way to the Stanley Cup final. And when you saw early on, you go, I don't know what I'm going to get out of these guys. On the Vegas side, Zach Whitecloud, Nick Haig, there's the growth that you had during the regular season that got them comfortable in the playoffs,

and that's what you're going to have to have a good run. You know, even Tampa Bay losing to Colorado. Colorado, Jack Johnson, can he handle playing those big minutes? Byram, a young guy. Josh Manson, his first real step. Those are the growth things you have to have, and the Leafs are going to have to have. Now, I guess the problem the Leafs have is they're top guys.

You know, you don't have the top two guys maybe at the same level of some of those guys but i thought there was growth in that game from from guys like lagasin and benoit and you're going to need them to figure out if you can play them when you have to in those critical games yeah no that's absolutely true and it is good you know like you said you kind of don't know how many minutes or whatever they're going to give you, but they just need to be able to handle a few of them. So that's been a good thing. You know, I'm looking at their game against Boston going, I don't know how good this Bruins

team is. And then I step back and look at the whole Atlantic division. It's like, it's pretty good top to bottom. Ottawa currently has the fewest points, but I think Ottawa is a decent team. How do you handicap the Atlantic Division? Kipper kind of feels like Florida may be better than Boston, even though there's seven points behind them. How do you see this Atlantic Division playing out?

I think it's very wide open, and Chris and I said at the beginning of the broadcast, I know it's, what, team 22 or whatever, but you don't really want to be standings watching. But all of a sudden, with the kind of start that Boston had and then losing three in a row like they had, that last game, they could have been four points behind them with a game in hand, with a win.

Instead, now they're seven, but with still that game in hand. So I do think that it's not a runaway, even though Boston had the good start to give them a little breathing room. The Rangers are another animal. But quite frankly, I think you just have to look within your own division and not worry so much about the Metropolitan Division and what's happening over there. But, you know, I do think that the opportunity is there to stay in the mix.

And that's why we said, you know, I do think that the opportunity is there to stay in the mix. And that's why we said, you know, despite the five regulation wins, all of those overtime points have been critical to keep you in the mix. And once you get on a roll and once you get your game together, maybe you get a little healthier, I think they have to be the mindset of keep Boston and Florida in your sights and say, we got an opportunity to stay with them and, and to not be sort of going by the wayside saying, okay, Boston's going to win the division.

I think it's going to be a good battle all the way through that allows them the opportunity to stay in the mix. Looking forward to it, Simmer. And as always, thanks for, for doing this. And if we don't catch up to you through the holiday seasons have a great one okay all right guys thanks for having me on that's craig simpson hockey night in canada canada analyst uh he mentioned it uh ben juan legason and i watched one game of benoit in the preseason, and I said, I'm not sure he could play in the American Hockey League, but this guy has found a way to spend the least amount of time in his own zone.

He can play the body. He can find a red line, and he can get it in deep. And I've, yeah, he's won me over up until this point yeah i trust him and i know that sounds silly yeah doesn't do it yes doesn't do anything that he doesn't think he can do yes does the right thing going to close as quickly as he can on a guy who has the puck in the corner straight lines gonna bang it off the glass if he's under pressure like and it's nice to have that sometimes to be like i trust what he's gonna do here him we're number two i'm just like a little trust there too it's the old luke shen number i'm like ah whatever so often the flash is my my mind he's did you see shen fight marcus felino a few nights

back i didn't oh god shen is a monster person just coming to town this left into his mouth yeah next weekend be interesting but at least ben why you got to give him credit because there's there's such a hole on that blue line and a need for just a simple guy like this yeah and he has for the most part delivered yeah i'll say this about the guys that they have playing that role they are the type of guys i want in that slot i don't for years the leafs have had lilligren on the third pair trying to be an offensive defenseman or whatever, and it just hasn't worked. Lilligren, probably a second pair guy and can do the offense there, but a third pair, just nice to have some guys.

I think the key for him, though, is just finding a way to maximize his value without over-asking. If he starts stepping in, and I don't know what he played Saturday night, maybe 16, 17 minutes. Who was that? benoit yeah benoit which for me is probably 15 35 some somewhere between 11 and 14 for me would be in that perfect range yeah 12 and a half 13 but if this guy starts going north of 15 i think there's a chance that there's going to be some gaps there's going to be some turnovers you just don't want to over ask i think that's totally fair and i will say uh just in the interest of being fair to people i've been hard to connor tim it's

pretty good game i thought he was fine yeah saturday night plus two yeah he was made a couple positive plays for sure you know we people get get on living pretty hard for the offseason, and I think the two poster boys, obviously, is that Klingberg and the Reeves signing. But he did bring in some depth here that's really helping them right now. You think about bringing in Gregory. You think about bringing in Benoit. You think about bringing in Lagasin.

Domi's been getting better. Bertuzzi's improving. It wasn't an out-and-out disaster like a lot of people want to make it seem. No, Klingberg being hurt is helping. For sure, but he was a disaster. But not a good time to mention that Lafferty on the number one line in Vancouver. I wasn't going to bring that up.

Not a good time. Everything kills penalties. It's a great transition because we're going to be talking about them in the national honor with Sat Shaw. So there you go. But yeah, he looks awesome. Yeah.

I mean, it's just how much better would they look if you're spending 1-1 on Lafferty instead of 1-3 on Reeves, right? Yeah, you just take out Reeves and put in Lafferty. Your fourth line is Lafferty, Gregor, and Kemp. That's good for like one win. But I heard Lafferty's horrible for picking music in the room. What's he listen to, the oldies? Little Frank Sinatra?

What's he picking? All right. As Sammy mentioned, we go national next on the hour of Real Kipper and Bourne. Sat Shaw will join us. Coming off a huge win for the Vancouver Canucks over the Calgary Flames. We'll get into that and more, including Sam Lafferty lighting it up for the Vancouver Canucks. Our thanks to Craig Simpson in the first hour. Don't go away.

We're only getting started here on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.